US and PRC relationship & India

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhischekcc »

ramana wrote:X-Post...

Read this with Shyam Saran's speech in Feb 2009 which is in the US-PRC relationship and India thread.
Key Points to note:

- MMS by 2006 had figured out there is a potential for the change in global balance. And took steps to get out of the strait jacket.
- No one figured out the extent of damage to the global system.

Syham Saran's speech is a continuation of the GOI thinking once the extent of the coallpse and the new realities were understood.
Ramana, YV Reddy in an interview earlier (posted somewhere in BRF) had made the remark that central bankers knew as early as 2004 that the real estate market was a bubble.

But only YVR took the necessary steps to ward it off - the others were too unwilling (or afraid?) to counter the market.

So, the problem was known, as was the solution. Only the will to implement them by going against the needs of the market was missing among western bankers.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2 ... ment_watch
The political decision to downgrade our intelligence collection efforts against China is not motivated by a decreasing China threat (remember all those claims in the Bush years of "politicizing intelligence"). Quite the contrary, earlier in the year Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair called China one of the foremost threats to the United States. And, as the article points out, upon assuming command of the Pacific Command Adm. Robert Willard noted that China's military capabilities consistently exceed our intelligence estimates. The appropriate response to a growing military threat is to assign that threat a higher priority in intelligence collection. The president's National Security Council did the opposite.
Masaru
BRFite
Posts: 242
Joined: 18 Aug 2009 05:46

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Masaru »

Asia: Back to the fundamentals
The key node in the network of alliances and partnerships is Japan. The Obama team can tap into the aspirations of Japan by articulating a truly sustainable alliance for the 21st century, based on shared economic growth, more equal relations, and a role for Japan in international affairs commensurate with its power. Pushing hard for a seat on the Perm 5 would be a good start.
Further west, India is becoming the second most important American partner in Asia. President Bush opened up vast opportunities in the relationship by helping find a solution to the nettlesome question of India's nuclear status. But at the psychological level "Bush to India" does not compare with "Nixon to China." Obama can fix that by building and inspiring the connective tissue so critical to strong ties with India, both inside and outside his government. Consider this: when President Hu of China comes to town, at least five major U.S.-China organizations fall all over themselves to see which one can lay out the longest red carpet. There is no analogue with India. Obama can meet with U.S. CEOs, scholars, etc., and call them to action. How about a National Committee on U.S.-India Relations, for example?
More from Foreign Policy

Get China Right
In 2010, President Obama would be well-advised to shift from an "inside-out" to an "outside-in" Asia policy. Rather than taking an approach to this dynamic region that starts with Beijing, raising fears of a Sino-American condominium, he could follow former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage's maxim that "getting China right means getting Asia right."

The spectacle of a junior Chinese official scolding the president in Copenhagen symbolizes a troubling turn in relations with a country rendered overconfident by excessive U.S. deference. At the same time, Washington's ties to Asia's other principal powers -- Japan and India -- have deteriorated, further encouraging China's new assertiveness toward both America and its neighbors.

An "outside-in" Asia strategy would accept that China will determine its own course, but that the United States continues to possess the power and influence to shape China's peaceful rise. Washington could usefully stop framing the U.S.-Japan alliance around a narrow dispute over the relocation of American forces on Okinawa, giving Tokyo the space to pursue vigorous domestic reform that will ultimately strengthen the vitality of Japan and, by extension, the alliance. President Obama could begin to take India as seriously as did Presidents Clinton and Bush, acting on the premise that a U.S.-India partnership in Asian and world affairs holds far greater potential, by virtue of common values and shared strategic perspectives, than does any Sino-American G2. Obama could oversee the kind of historic breakthrough in U.S.-Indonesia relations that characterized U.S.-India relations under Bush.

Building on Secretary Clinton's welcome recent endorsement of U.S.-Japan-India trilateral cooperation, the Obama administration could invest in deepening regional concerts among Asia-Pacific powers grounded in common values and shared security perspectives. Finally, Obama could pursue an Asian trade policy rooted not in bilateral protectionism against Chinese products but in pan-regional trade liberalization, starting with the South Korea-U.S. free trade agreement and the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Obama must ensure that America remains at the core of the Pacific century, not relegated to its fringes.
csharma
BRFite
Posts: 695
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by csharma »

Martin Sieff who writes for UPI has written a book on India China and US.

http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8248

The Myth of Permanent U.S. Global Dominance
But India and China, like all great nations, have always marched to the beats of their own drummers. U.S. policymakers up to the late 1990s were extraordinarily ignorant of India's social, political and economic achievements in its decades since independence. Americans were equally ignorant of India's military power — power that had played an important role in World War I and proved crucial in World War II.
Americans must wake up to the reality that they will have to deal with India and China as equals — rather than supplicants.
csharma
BRFite
Posts: 695
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by csharma »

Given the recent revelations about Glaciergate, one feeling I have is that the joint statement between China and US might have been US handiwork as well. Probably they wanted to create India China tensions ahead of the Copenhagen summit so that they could break the unity of developing nations and then force an accord.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/world ... diplo.html
PARIS — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton warned China on Friday that it would face economic insecurity and diplomatic isolation if it did not sign on to tough new sanctions against Iran for its nuclear program, seeking to raise the pressure on Beijing to fall in line with an American-led campaign.

...

With Russia increasingly frustrated by Iran’s recalcitrance, China has emerged as perhaps the lone holdout to a new United Nations resolution that would focus sweeping financial and economic sanctions on Iran’s leadership, including a possible ban on sales of technology to its energy sector.

...

Tensions between China and the United States have flared recently over a range of issues, most notably Internet freedom and Google’s announcement that its systems had been hacked by sources in mainland China. Unprompted, Mrs. Clinton alluded to another source of friction: President Obama’s plan to meet with the Dalai Lama, whom Beijing condemns as a subversive.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/world ... 0arms.html
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has approved an arms sales package to Taiwan worth more than $6 billion, a move that has enraged China and may complicate President Obama’s effort to enlist Beijing’s cooperation on Iran.

The administration deferred a decision on selling F-16 fighter planes to Taiwan, administration officials said, but they pointedly added that they were not shutting the door to future F-16 sales.

The last time the United States sold F-16s to Taiwan was in 1992 under President George H. W. Bush. In response, China threatened to withdraw from international arms control talks and retaliated, many China experts contend, by selling medium-range missiles to Pakistan.
Why give missiles to Pakistan?
The Chinese reaction was swift, and negative. China’s vice foreign minister, He Yafei, issued a diplomatic message to the State Department expressing his “indignation” over the pending sale, said Wang Baoding, the spokesman at the Chinese Embassy in Washington.

“We believe this move endangers China’s national security and harms China’s peaceful reunification efforts,” Mr. Wang said in an interview. “It will harm China-U.S. relations and bring about a serious and active impact on bilateral communication and cooperation.”

China experts said that Beijing was likely to cut off military-to-military cooperation with the United States in retaliation, and that President Hu Jintao might boycott Mr. Obama’s planned nuclear security summit meeting in April.
Good!
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

China to Suspend Military Exchanges With U.S.: Report

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/ ... aiwan.html
BEIJING (Reuters) - China will suspend mutual military exchanges with the United States over its arms sales to Taiwan, state news agency Xinhua said on Saturday.

"Considering the severe harm and disgusting effect of U.S. arms sales to Taiwan, the Chinese side has decided to suspend planned mutual military visits," Xinhua quoted the Defense Ministry as saying.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by sum »

The last time the United States sold F-16s to Taiwan was in 1992 under President George H. W. Bush. In response, China threatened to withdraw from international arms control talks and retaliated, many China experts contend, by selling medium-range missiles to Pakistan.
So, whenever any big powers(US-USSR or China-US) have their fights, India turns out to be the punching bag? :-?
VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3257
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by VinodTK »

Masaru
BRFite
Posts: 242
Joined: 18 Aug 2009 05:46

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Masaru »

China's strident tone raises concerns among Western governments
From the Copenhagen climate change conference, to Internet freedom, to China's border with India, China observers have noticed a tough tone emanating from its government, its representatives and influential analysts from its state-funded think tanks.

Calling in U.S. Ambassador Jon Huntsman on Saturday, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei said the United States would be responsible for "serious repercussions" if it did not reverse the decision to sell Taiwan $6.4 billion worth of helicopters, Patriot Advanced Capability-3 missiles, minesweepers and communications gear. The reaction came even though China has known for months about the planned deal, U.S. officials said.

.... Lieberthal said another factor for China's new tone is a sense that after two centuries of exploitation by the West, China is resuming its role as one of the great nations of the world.


Analysts say a combination of hubris and insecurity appears to be driving China's mood. {Same as their deeper than ocean friends!}. On one hand, Beijing believes that the relative ease with which it skated over the global financial crisis underscores the superiority of its system and that China is not only rising but has arrived on the global stage -- much faster than anyone could have predicted. On the other, recent uprisings in the western regions of Tibet and Xinjiang have fed Chinese leaders' insecurity about their one-party state. As such, any perceived threat to their power is met with a backlash.
And in another vignette, confirmed by several sources, a senior U.S. official involved in the economy hosted his Chinese counterpart, who then made a series of disparaging remarks about the bureau that the American ran. Later that night, the two were to dine at the American's house. The Chinese representatives called ahead, asking what was for dinner. They were informed that it was fish. "The director doesn't eat fish," one of them told his American interlocutor. "He wants steak. He says fish makes you weak." The menu was changed. :rotfl:
Tone with Europe, India

With Europe and India, China's strident tone has been even more apparent. In autumn 2008, China canceled a summit with the European Union after French President Nicolas Sarkozy met with the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama. Before that, it had denounced German Chancellor Angela Merkel over her contacts with the Tibetan holy man. And in recent weeks, it has engaged in a heated exchange with British officials over its moves to block a broader deal agreement at the climate conference.

China also suspended ties with Denmark after its prime minister met the Dalai Lama and resumed them only after the Danish government issued a statement in December saying it would oppose Tibetan independence and consider Beijing's reaction before inviting him again.


China's newfound toughness also played out in a renewed dispute with India over Beijing's claims to the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, which borders Tibet. Last summer, China blocked the Asian Development Bank from making a $60 million loan for infrastructure improvements in the state. India then moved to fund the projects itself, prompting China to send more troops to the border.
Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Chinmayanand »

Just a 200% import duty on Chinese goods in EU, US and India will make China weak&meek. Even steak won't be able to bring back strength to the Chinese. :rotfl:
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

U.S. Starts to Push Back Against China in Growing Rift

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/world ... china.html
WASHINGTON — For the past year, China has adopted an increasingly muscular position toward the United States, berating American officials for the global economic crisis, stage-managing President Obama’s visit to China in November, refusing to back a tougher climate change agreement in Copenhagen and standing fast against American demands for tough new Security Council sanctions against Iran.

Now, the Obama administration has started to push back. In announcing an arms sales package to Taiwan worth $6 billion on Friday, the United States leveled a direct strike at the heart of the most sensitive diplomatic issue between the two countries since America affirmed the “one China” policy in 1972.

The arms package was doubly infuriating to Beijing coming so soon after the Bush administration announced a similar arms package for Taiwan in 2008, and right as tensions were easingsomewhat in Beijing and Taipei’s own relations. China’s immediate, and outraged, reaction — cancellation of some military exchanges and announcement of punitive sanctions against American companies — demonstrates, China experts said, that Beijing is feeling a little burned, particularly because the Taiwan arms announcement came on the same day that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton publicly berated China for not taking a stronger position on holding Iran accountable for its nuclear program.

...

But larger questions remain about where the Obama administration is heading on China policy, and whether the new toughness signals a fundamentally new direction and will yield results that last year’s softer approach did not.

...

Instead, China pushed back hard, including at the Copenhagen climate change summit in December, when Beijing balked at American and European demands that China agree to an international monitoring system for emissions targets. Twice, the Chinese prime minister, Wen Jiabao, sent an underling to represent him at meetings with Mr. Obama, in what diplomats said was an intentional snub. Mr. Obama later had to track down Mr. Wen, surprising him and appearing at the doorway of a conference room where Mr. Wen was meeting with the leaders of South Africa, Brazil and India.

The United States and China eventually reached a compromise on the monitoring agreement, but the whole incident left a bad taste in the mouths of many Obama administration officials, who believed China had deliberately set out to belittle Mr. Obama, and who were determined to push back and reassert American authority.

“The Chinese,” said James J. Shinn, who was assistant secretary of defense for Asia during the Bush administration, “now seem to have a palpable sense of confidence that they’re more in the driver’s seat than two years ago, across a whole range of issues.”

For Mr. Obama, the arms sale to Taiwan, which China considers a breakaway province, may be only the first of many instances this year in which he will run afoul of Beijing.

Some foreign policy experts said that the administration now seemed intent on poking at the sovereignty issues that have long been China’s Achilles’ heel. Mrs. Clinton noted on Friday that Mr. Obama would soon be meeting with the Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama — a meeting that White House officials put off last summer to avoid alienating Beijing in advance of Mr. Obama’s China trip

...

But the tougher American positions do not change the fact that Mr. Obama needs Chinese cooperation on a host of issues. Beyond his efforts to rein in Iran’s nuclear ambitions, the president is also working with Beijing on similar ambitions in North Korea.

And Mr. Obama announced in his State of the Union address last week that he planned to double American exports in the next five years, an ambitious goal that cannot be met unless he somehow persuades China to let its currency appreciate, making Chinese products more expensive in the United States and American products more affordable in China.
sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6566
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by sanjaykumar »

Alright America's getting its mojo back. Can the v iag ara be far from hand?

As I have previously stated a disapproving WaPo editorial will bring China opprtunity for introspection as patriotic American businessmen and the great American consumer take the cue. Getting there. This time one hopes India eschews the NAM fence sitting. Either sh1t or get off the pot.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60228
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by ramana »

Its necessary for US to get back to PRC. It shows how hollow the whole globalization is and all golmal? Eventually PRC will discover its Chinese roots.
csharma
BRFite
Posts: 695
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by csharma »

B Raman on the latest US -China thing.

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r3641.html

CHINA CONFUSED & OUTRAGED BY OBAMA�S GOOGLE & TAIWAN CARDS
It is learnt that the Chinese authorities were aware for some time that the sale of this package was under the consideration of the Obama Administration, but were confident that after the smooth visit of Mr.Obama to China in November last and the importance attached by him to China�s role as an Asian power with stakes even in South Asia, he will not go ahead with the sale.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

U.S. Official: To Meet Obligation on Taiwan Self - Defense

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/02/ ... china.html
Chinese state media blasted the United States on Monday for a planned $6.4 billion arms package for Taiwan, while a U.S. official said Washington was committed to helping the island defend itself.

...

The official China Daily said U.S. weapons sales to the self-ruled island, which China claims as its own, "inevitably cast a long shadow on Sino-US relations."

...

U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Asia-Pacific Wallace Gregson said Washington aimed to maintain cooperative, cordial relations with China but would not abandon Taiwan.

"The United States is also obligated to ensure Taiwan's self-defense capability and the United States fully intends to meet every one of our obligations there and we will continue to do so into the future," he said in Tokyo.
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by CRamS »

A couple of recent developments show how hollow this claim is that China is an impending super power and US is declining:

1) Hilary Clinton's brazen demand that China fall in line as the west and Israel gang up on Iran. I mean the demand was so brazen that Hilary said that if China does not fall in line, there will be 'consequences'. I don't know what the Chinese reaction has been.

2) This arms sales to Taiwan, and true to US form, cooly justify it with an in-your-face, showing the midde finger attitude.
Arihant
BRFite
Posts: 199
Joined: 02 Aug 2009 05:17

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Arihant »

CRamS wrote:A couple of recent developments show how hollow this claim is that China is an impending super power and US is declining:

1) Hilary Clinton's brazen demand that China fall in line as the west and Israel gang up on Iran. I mean the demand was so brazen that Hilary said that if China does not fall in line, there will be 'consequences'. I don't know what the Chinese reaction has been.

2) This arms sales to Taiwan, and true to US form, cooly justify it with an in-your-face, showing the midde finger attitude.
All of which is music to our ears....
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Today's ET has a section (unable to find web version though) of Taiwan's rep in India blaming 'the third party' for the dismal state of Indo-Taiwan economic relations despite overwhelming complementarity, potential and promise.

He went to cite IT, manufacturing, education and very importantly, agro-processing as areas where Taiwanese expertise and investment could greatly help Yindia and vice-versa.

He lamented the delaying of a dual taxation avoidance treaty between the 2 countries.

Hope our babus wake up and act fast for a change.
tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by tejas »

It boggles the mind why India doesn't have massively better economic if not also military ties with Taiwan. What is the GOI worried about? What could the PRC do to India that it hasn't done already?
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60228
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by ramana »

tejas wrote:It boggles the mind why India doesn't have massively better economic if not also military ties with Taiwan. What is the GOI worried about? What could the PRC do to India that it hasn't done already?
Taiwan has little to offer by way of military support wrt PRC which is what is needed. On the other hand the economic ties could lead to military issues on the borders. And Taiwan has same view as mainland China on issues of interest to India:Tibet, Arunachal etc.

So its not that balanced to pursue economic ties with Taiwan.
tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by tejas »

Taiwan has a massive electronic hardware industry and we could benefit from FDI from them. I think weapon sales to Taiwan say LCA mkII (the latest US arms deal with Taiwan pointedly did not include F-16s), diesel submarines once we have our own indigenous design and NAG ATGM to begin with.

The Communist mass murderers who rule China from behind the barrel of a gun have supplied Pukistan with nuclear weapon designs, plutonium, ballistic missiles, most of their conventional weapons--including rush supplies during Kargill and support Maoist terrorists in India.

They oppose India's inclusion in the UNSC. They opposed India's inclusion in APEC, unsuccessfully opposed India's inclusion as an ASEAN Asian Regional Forum member, and unsuccessfully opposed ADB funding of projects in Arunachal-- the GOI will no longer pursue such loans in the future. In other words these ba*tards have done everyting short of sending troops across the border. Does ayone think they would dare do that if India cozied up to Tawain? To me the point is not if we get massive economic benefits from it. Rather it gives the thugs that run the PRC a well deserved one finger salute as well as appropriately hurts the feelings of the Chinese people as they have more than hurt the feelings of the Indian people.

If you suggest we wait a bit until we set up additional mountain divisions on our border, acquire adequate artillery and build up or border infrastructure, I can't argue with you. At some point though India needs to dish out a little of what it has been receiving from China since independence.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... ing_taiwan
It is one of those issues for the Taiwanese and the Chinese to work out among themselves. Just as are the issues between China and Tibet. Just as are countless other border issues of nothing more than regional significance...unless we continue to choose, in our desire to aggrandize our role on the planet in Yertle the Turtle fashion to involving all issues we survey. Should we support democracy everywhere? Yes. Are we willing to go to war everywhere to defend it? No. Should we support international efforts to preserve the rights of minorities and small states against bullying neighbors? Yes. Is it up to the U.S. to be the last bulwark of defense for all those states (especially the ones that have movie stars or highly-financed lobbies behind them)? No.

We are entering The Era of Limits for the United States. We can only actively get involved in those few places where our vital strategic interests are involved and where involvement will actually advance those interests. That should mean a spring cleaning of the attic of U.S. foreign policy and an effort to identify vestigial positions we can no longer afford to support. This will mean some wrenching decisions... and in some cases, it's probably just as well we keep our changed policies to ourselves. But we don't have the balance sheet we once had. Economic trends are not in our favor on that front. And so we have to accept that we simply can't afford to be the country we once were... or over-reaching will prove to be the ultimate threat to our security.
Arihant
BRFite
Posts: 199
Joined: 02 Aug 2009 05:17

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Arihant »

tejas wrote:It boggles the mind why India doesn't have massively better economic if not also military ties with Taiwan. What is the GOI worried about? What could the PRC do to India that it hasn't done already?
Our responses remain driven by fear. It would be worthwhile to explore in this forum scenarios where India overtly upgrades ties with Taiwan. I suspect the worst cases are no worse than the present. Certainly flagging a graded process of upgrading ties provides an enormous point of leverage.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Philip »

China has been given a kick in the "nuts" by Obama and rightly so.This is his first serious and correct action taken since his term began regarding foreign affairs,closing Camp Gitmo down had morte to do with internal criticism of the US's human rights.

The PRC has arrogated to itself thanks to its massive economic growth fuelled by western investment,the right to strut across ASia as it pleases.Local uprisings in Tibet and Xinjiang weere put down with extreme cruelty,other reports of trouble within China were supressed and like the Nazis of the 20th century,the PRC plans to "conquer" Asia by any means possible and end up by 2050 as the most powerful economic and military power on earth.Assimilating Taiwan by any means,preferable if the Taiwanese succumbed to relentless Chinese pressure,is a first step.Dealing with perceived rival India-teching it another military "lesson" is next and the writings in China about the need to establish military bases in Pak show how wide China's ambitions are.It has strode into Africa making deals with African despotic regimes to vacuum up Africa's natural wealth,steal the indigenous handicraft industry of the continent by mass producing cheap equivalents in China beggaring the African natives in the process.In Sri Lanka,the Chinese have solen Lankan jobs and are eating up its wildlife! The Sinhalese in the south bitterly rsesent the presence of the Chinese there,something that the GOI must work on asap.

The decision by Obama to sell a package of arms to Taiwan-and it must also include subs at some point of time,is a massive blow to the PRC,as it gives the Taiwanese a fighting chance of warding off a Chinese invasion before the world community acts against China in some form,sanctions,etc.,at the very least.This shot of arms gives the Taiwanese military a much needed boost of vitamin "W",weaponry,which should cheer them up no end.While Taiwan might right now mirror China's stand on some Indo-Sino issues (Tibet,,etc.),we should engage with the Taiwanese through economic delegations overtly,while covertly engage them on matters relating to defence and Asian security.Prevnting Taiwan from being conquered by the PRC is a matter vital to India to,as if Taiwan falls,then we can expect a massive move from the PRC in the sub-continent.How will we like the establishment of Chinese military bases in Pak,while Pak continues to wage a terrorist campaign against us?

Taiwan cannot fall.India's defence interests also have a vital boundary in the Pacific,it is demoocratic Taiwan's indepndence!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6100C720100201
U.S. seeks calm as China fumes over Taiwan arms
Ben Blanchard and Paul Eckert
Mon Feb 1, 2010:
How China's anger could hurt ties with the U.S.

BEIJING/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Chinese state media blasted the United States on Monday for a planned $6.4 billion arms package for Taiwan but U.S. officials said they hoped the flap would be temporary and not derail cooperation.

The arms sales, the latest by the United States but the first by the Obama administration, has added to a litany of strains between the world's biggest and third-biggest economies, including the value of China's currency, trade protectionism, Internet freedoms and Tibet.

The official China Daily said U.S. weapons sales to the self-ruled island, which China claims as its own, "inevitably cast a long shadow on Sino-U.S. relations."

"China's response, no matter how vehement, is justified. No country worthy of respect can sit idle while its national security is endangered and core interests damaged," the English-language newspaper said in an editorial.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the U.S.-China relationship was important and "I don't think that either country can afford to simply walk away from the other."

Gibbs said any sanctions against the companies involved in the arms sales, a move threatened by China for the first time, would not be warranted.

The United States switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979, recognizing "one China," and says it wants the two sides to settle their differences peacefully. The United States remains Taiwan's biggest backer and is obliged by the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act to help in the island's defense

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the arms sale decision reflected "long-standing commitments to provide for Taiwan's defensive needs."

"We will, as always, pursue our interests but we will do it in a way that we think allows for positive and cooperative relations with China," he told reporters.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates defended the arms sale, telling reporters he hoped China's decision to protest by curtailing bilateral military contacts would be temporary and that he still planned to visit China later this year.

"Stability is enhanced by contact between our military and a greater understanding of each other's strategies, so I hope that if there is a downturn, that it will be a temporary one and that we can get back to strengthening this relationship," Gates said.

MISSILE BUILDUP CONCERNS

The Pentagon's 2010 Ballistic Missile Defense Review Report to Congress, published on Monday, said the United States was concerned and closely monitoring China's missile buildup and increasingly advanced capabilities in the Pacific region.

"One regional trend that particularly concerns the United States is the growing imbalance of power across the Taiwan Strait in China's favor," the report said.

The report said U.S. defense policymakers "remain committed to a relationship that is positive, cooperative, and comprehensive and do not believe a hostile or adversarial relationship with China is by any means inevitable."

Beijing considers Taiwan a breakaway province that must accept eventual unification, by force if necessary. China's ruling Communist Party controls the country's media and uses them at sensitive times to amplify its message.

Venting intense anger over the arms sales, Chinese Internet users called for a boycott of top U.S. exporter and plane-maker Boeing Co and other companies supplying parts.

China has for years opposed U.S. defense sales to Taiwan, which has been separated from mainland rule since 1949 and was a Japanese colony from 1895 to 1945.

But for the first time, Beijing sought to pressure the United States by threatening to formally punish companies whose arms are involved in the arms package, which was announced on Friday.

"China has no room whatever for compromise on this issue," said a commentary in the Liberation Army Daily, the mouthpiece of the country's military, adding that Chinese armed forces were ready for "resolute struggle" over Taiwan.

"It is entirely reasonable to impose corresponding sanctions on U.S. companies involved in arms sales to Taiwan."

U.S. arms exporters declined to comment on the Chinese threat and White House spokesman Gibbs said: "I don't think those (sanctions) would be warranted."

Walter Lohman, director of Asian studies at the Heritage

Foundation, said China's response was "mostly noise" and probably designed to deter Washington from considering selling F-16 advanced fighter jets to Taiwan.

"Partly what they're doing now is trying to scare us off the F-16 sale, by making a big deal out of this one," he said.

CHINESE FACE LIMITED OPTIONS

Chinese shares appeared unmoved but trading in offshore one-year dollar/yuan non-deliverable forwards (NDFs) implied slightly slower appreciation for the yuan over the next 12 months.

Dealers said the NDFs shift was mainly driven by the dollar's global strength but the Sino-U.S. tension contributed.

China's top leaders, President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao, have not publicly commented on what they have said is their nation's topmost issue, suggesting they want to keep some leeway in dealing with Washington.

Despite Beijing's strident words, options for punishing the United States were limited, said Drew Thompson, director of China Studies at the Nixon Center, a thinktank in Washington.

"They don't have a lot of leverage, and that's a source of frustration for them," he said. "It's hard to picture what they could do that's anything other than symbolic."

Sanctions on Boeing could give its rival, Airbus, more leverage in negotiations with Chinese buyers, Thompson said.

U.S. officials have said Taiwan, which lags China in the balance of military power, needs updated weapons to give it more sway with Beijing, which Taiwan says has more than 1,400 short- and mid-range missiles aimed at the island.

Beijing would postpone or partially halt some military contacts with the United States, including visits planned for this year such as Gates's trip, Xinhua news agency said.

China also said the dispute will damage cooperation with the United States over international issues. Washington has sought stronger Chinese support over several hotspots, chiefly the nuclear ambitions of Iran and North Korea.

"It's difficult to take what are global problems and use them as a tool to vent frustration over a bilateral issue," Thompson said of China's options. "They risk isolating themselves pretty badly."

(Additional reporting by Chris Buckley in Beijing; Lu Jianxin in Shanghai; Yoko Kubota in Tokyo; Adam Entous, Jim Wolf, Arshad Mohammed and Ross Colvin in Washington; Editing by John O'Callaghan)
PS:If we develop the LCA MK2 not too far inbto the future,it could be one item that Taiwan might like to acquire,apart from a fe of our missiles indigenously developed.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

China Warns U.S. on Meeting With Dalai Lama

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/world ... tibet.html
BEIJING — A senior Chinese official on Tuesday warned that relations between the United States and China could be damaged if President Obama meets with the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of the Tibetans whom China considers to be a dangerous separatist, according to a report in Xinhua, the state news agency.

The official, Zhu Weiqun, said if a country’s leaders meet with the Dalai Lama “we will take necessary measures to help them realize” the possible harm, he said, without giving further details. Mr. Zhu is the executive deputy minister of the United Front Work Department, the arm of the Chinese Communist Party that officially manages ethnic policy.

Any move by American leaders to meet with the Dalai Lama will “harm others but bring no profit to itself either,” Mr. Zhu said.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Philip »

deleted - copyright
Arihant
BRFite
Posts: 199
Joined: 02 Aug 2009 05:17

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Arihant »

ramana wrote:
tejas wrote:It boggles the mind why India doesn't have massively better economic if not also military ties with Taiwan. What is the GOI worried about? What could the PRC do to India that it hasn't done already?
Taiwan has little to offer by way of military support wrt PRC which is what is needed. On the other hand the economic ties could lead to military issues on the borders. And Taiwan has same view as mainland China on issues of interest to India:Tibet, Arunachal etc.

So its not that balanced to pursue economic ties with Taiwan.
I beg to disagree. If China manages to occupy Taiwan, then we've had it. Indeed, the rest of the world has had it too. We must stop it at all costs. Engaging with Taiwan will dilute China's economic dominance of Taiwanese politics.

Taiwan does have much to offer by way of military value by diverting Chinese attention away from us. The Chinese supported our north-eastern separatists not because they were capable of inflicting serious military damage, but because they had nuisance value.

I've heard this proposition about Taiwan holding the same views as China re Arunachal, Tibet etc. multiple times on this forum - this is a gross misunderstanding. The old KMT elite in Taiwan subscribed to these views because this helped maintain the fiction that they were the rightful government of China (I knew someone whose father was a "senator" in the Republic of China "senate" representing a Chinese province that he had never set foot on, nor was was permitted to by the CPC - these pretences have been dropped over the last decade and a half). The Taiwanese are in general hugely positively inclined to the Tibetan position. I routinely meet Tibetan monks (escaped via Nepal and India) on trips to Taiwan in public places (and often engage them in interesting Hindi conversations).

Taiwan's pro-independence movement is once again resurgent. It's pro-China president's popularity is at an all time low. The pro-independence side has been taking India very seriously. This is a golden opportunity for leverage....
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Currency Dispute Likely to Further Fray U.S.-China Ties

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/world ... diplo.html
WASHINGTON — To the growing list of grievances between the United States and China, add one more: the Obama administration is reviving American pressure on China to stop artificially depressing its currency, a policy that fuels its persistent trade gap with the United States.

The administration has told Chinese officials that currency policy will be high on its agenda this year for economic talks with China, a senior official said on Wednesday. The White House is also weighing whether to designate China as a country that manipulates its currency, when the Treasury Department issues its semiannual report on foreign currencies in April.

President Obama signaled the tougher line on Wednesday, telling Democratic senators that the United States needed “to make sure our goods are not artificially inflated in price and their goods are not artificially deflated in price; that puts us at a huge competitive disadvantage.”

...

“It will be like water off a duck’s back,” said Nicholas R. Lardy, a China expert at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. “They’re puzzled by the criticism. They think they should be praised for keeping their currency stable at a time of global turmoil.”

Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 462
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Malayappan »

X Post -
Cracking Chimerica Dhruva Jaishankar in the IE
But it was also developments during that visit to Beijing and the subsequent UN climate summit at Copenhagen in December that suggest that the G-2 has now swiftly fallen out of favour. Despite the generous concessions offered Beijing, not one of Obama’s strategic objectives was met. There was no move to float the renminbi, and no discernible change in position on either Iran or North Korea. Cyber attacks have reportedly continued emanating from China, and dissidents have been jailed. At Copenhagen, China was seen as primarily responsible for obstructing a meaningful agreement.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

abhishek_sharma wrote:Currency Dispute Likely to Further Fray U.S.-China Ties

It appears that Larry Summers discussed this issue in Davos:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0 ... cantilism/
According to Gideon Rachman and Martin Wolf, Larry Summers gave a talk at Davos in which he warned that free trade would become politically, and maybe even intellectually, hard to defend in the face of “mercantilist” policies by unnamed parties at a time of high unemployment.
abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

China Shows Little Patience for U.S. Currency Pressure

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/world ... diplo.html
ashi
BRFite
Posts: 456
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 13:30

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by ashi »

ashi
BRFite
Posts: 456
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 13:30

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by ashi »

No Chance Against China
http://www.newsweek.com/id/231130
sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6566
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by sanjaykumar »

When China produces a google, then there will be no chance against China. Until then it is just an overgrown East Germany.
AnimeshP
BRFite
Posts: 514
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 07:39

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by AnimeshP »

Apologies if posted earlier ...
China PLA officers urge economic punch against U.S.
The People's Liberation Army (PLA) plays no role in setting policy for China's foreign exchange holdings. Officials in charge of that area have given no sign of any moves to sell U.S. Treasury bonds over the weapons sales, a move that could alarm markets and damage the value of China's own holdings.

While far from representing fixed government policy, the open demands for retaliation by the PLA officers underscored the domestic pressures on Beijing to deliver on its threats to punish the Obama administration over the arms sales.

"Our retaliation should not be restricted to merely military matters, and we should adopt a strategic package of counter-punches covering politics, military affairs, diplomacy and economics to treat both the symptoms and root cause of this disease," said Luo Yuan, a researcher at the Academy of Military Sciences.

"Just like two people rowing a boat, if the United States first throws the strokes into chaos, then so must we."
China is likely to unveil its official military budget for 2010 next month, when the Communist Party-controlled national parliament meets for its annual session.

The PLA officers suggested that budget should mirror China's ire toward Washington.

"Clearly propose that due to the threat in the Taiwan Sea, we are increasing military spending," said Luo.
Well now India will have to increase its defense spending which will result in Pakistan begging for more ... could this be an ultra-chanikyan move by Unkil to boost sales for its defense industry ... :lol:
Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Gerard »

Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by Chinmayanand »

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: US and PRC relationship & India

Post by shyamd »

IOL reports that:

Beijing lost at least eight nationals in the collapse of the UN building during the Haiti quake. All were linked to the Chinese security and intelligence services.

Chinese diplomats are now under surveillance by Chinese domestic intelligence.
Post Reply