Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

arun · Post by **arun** » 31 Jan 2010 18:29

The whitewash of the cricket team of the Islamic Republic and Pakistan both in the test matches and ODI’s by Australia explained.

It’s all about the UnIslamic act of wearing green soled shoes

:

Pak cricket team's drubbing blamed on green colour of soles

PTI, 31 January 2010, 06:07pm IST

ISLAMABAD: A popular religious talk show host has blamed the drubbing the Pakistan cricket team got at the hands of Australia on the green-coloured soles of the players' shoes.

Aamir Liaquat Hussain, who hosts the popular Aalim Online talk show on Geo TV and is no stranger to controversy, said green is the colour of Pakistan and of Islam and "this colour being rubbed on the ground" is a derogatory act.

Hence, divine retribution had affected the fortunes of the Pakistani cricket team, he claimed.

Two days after it was aired, the show has been cross-posted on many websites, with most Pakistanis expressing shock at Hussain's "jahaalat" (stupidity). In fact, some bloggers have since renamed his show as 'Jaahil Online' in jest .........................

PTI via TOI

Methinks the blog mentioned in the article is this one:

Jahil Online: Explaining Why Pakistan is Losing!

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 31 Jan 2010 18:44

KrishG wrote:Every religion has fanatics and fanatic rulers who want to force people into what they believe is right. It's not just Islamic rulers, there are numerous instances of such fanatics. If you look up to the name Pushyamitra Sungha in history you'll learn that he was a fanatic Brahmin emperor who took over India after the Mauryas and massacred thousands of Buddhists (which was a new religion then) believing that India is homeland for Hindus alone.

I didn't want get into religions but the conclusion is that a state created in the name of a particular religion will always be the breeding ground for an extremist version of the religion. What kind of Islam did Djinnah envision for Bakistan nobody knows. That's a major problem for a country created specifically for Muslims which ought to obey the rules laid down by it's religion to an extreme level.

The so called "Islamic States" are the actual problem for that religion. These are the states which encourage extremist forms of it and thus disallowing a secular view within religion all in the name of preserving the rights of the people of that particular religion. An extremist Hindu group is as much Bakis is piskology as any other Baki.

I wonder what will be the answer from the majority of Pakistanis for the question, "What are you first ? Muslim or Pakistani ?" While we can expect an answer that they are both, from a minority, the majority would recognize themselves as Muslims first for afterall the primary reason why Pakistan exists is because of the religion. Then I ask if the majority of the people are strictly muslims first then what is the compulsion to live on a country called Pakistan ? A Sindh can be an Islamic state, a Balauchistan can be an Islamic state. Bottomline: The whole idea of Pakistan is in the gutter.

Yes, every religion has fantastics as you said, buy after certain time truth must be spoken and incidents should introspected. Now we can claim that Pushyamitra Sungha is wrong. But any muslim can tell you that Taimur, Ghazni and Gori are murderers, no, nobody. Because Islam encourages such action. Fantasists are not a threat, but religious sanction to fascism and religious fascism are danger.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 31 Jan 2010 18:57

^ Well said. While there maybe some accounts of Pushyamitra Sangha going after Buddhists 2300 years ago in a particular region of India, however these are also controversial ones, as to how big was the scale or how many monasteries were destroyed. What we have as a rule and not exceptions witnessed is Buddhisms rise in India, it's embrace by one of India's greatest Emperors, it's spread from India to Tibet, Myanmar, SL, SE Asia, China etc. We have also witnessed formation of massive learning centers of Buddhist thought within India's boundaries of yore. We have also witnessed peaceful and amiable relations with Buddhist Kingdoms like Tibet, Bhutan, Sikkim etc. Also we can notice people freely practice meditation styles that suit them. Within families it's common place in India to see practioner's of Buddha. No one raises eyebrows. Such exceptions that you describe were never the rule and never sanctioned in any doctrine. While the same does not apply to Islams incursions into India, Europe or other regions.

I was wanting to sort of correct myself when i stated that the last 60 years have been amongst the most peaceful in the last 1000 years. Bangaladesh proved again to be amongst the worlds worst genocides conducted very recently by the Paki Army. Estimates of the killing range upto 3 million. Basically they displayed the same propensity for genocide killing less pious muslims or non muslims as what Timur, Ghori or Durrani did. I have found many Paki's and BDs comment..'they killed indiscriminately. They don't distinguish even between Muslims and Non-Muslims'. This above can be referred to several places in deff and dumb if you care to look. If you want i can post several of those comments here.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 31 Jan 2010 19:02

kmkraoind wrote:Now we can claim that Pushyamitra Sungha is wrong. But any muslim can tell you that Taimur, Ghazni and Gori are murderers, no, nobody. Because Islam encourages such action. Fantasists are not a threat, but religious sanction to fascism and religious fascism are danger.

Excellent post. Every religion has fanatics, but how many religions actually glorify them & how many deplore them? I don't see any missiles being named after Sungha.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 31 Jan 2010 19:02

ICC slaps 2-match ban on Shahid Afridi

Pakistan T20 skipper Shahid Afridi is set to miss the only Twenty20 clash with Australia after he was banned for two Twenty20 matches on Sunday. The International Cricket Council found Afridi guilty of tampering the bill during the final one-day international against Australia. It may be reminded here that Shahid Afridi was seen tampering the ball with his teeth during the final ODI match.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 31 Jan 2010 19:04

Chandragupta wrote:I don't see any missiles being named after Sungha.

Because India's history is full of heroes who did the righteous thing (and thus, name the missiles after them), without having to scrape the bottom of the barrell looking for names of anti-heroes for its missiles.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 31 Jan 2010 19:15

Afridi biting the ball and giving it to asif.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOhG-_elQow

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 31 Jan 2010 19:21

anupmisra wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:I don't see any missiles being named after Sungha.
Because India's history is full of heroes who did the righteous thing (and thus, name the missiles after them), without having to scrape the bottom of the barrell looking for names of anti-heroes for its missiles.

Righteous could have different meanings for different people.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 31 Jan 2010 19:23

Pak Taliban chief Mehsud dead, reports PTV; govt says can't confirm yet

Pakistan Taliban chief likely targeted by drone

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jan 2010 19:46

shiv wrote:I have a reply for Brihaspatiji's perfectly valid viewpoint. But I believe the topic was declared unfit for this thread before Brihaspatiji's reply. My reply is guaranteed to be as far off topic for this thread as Brihaspatiji's reply.

Can't you open a shiv.blogspot.com or shiv.wordpress.com or such, and write there? You can disable comments if you don't want to get into extended debates there with any and all who come and to avoid comments from the unhinged. Similarly brihaspati can open his blog. This discussion needs to happen, IMO, even if not on BRF.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 31 Jan 2010 19:58

durgesh wrote:The bad Sufi

Sridhar,
did you see this. precisely what you had said in the other thread.

It is often assumed that Sufism stands opposed to Wahhabism. Wrong. Sufism and Wahhabism, in fact, share a fatal characteristic – they are religions of the status quo. In Pakistan, Sufism legitimises barbarities of inequality and starvation – ‘do nothing, it’s god’s will’ - while at the same time justifying structures of oppressive power, Pirism and landlordism, rather like Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia. Contemporary Sufism, rather than being a solution to Pakistan’s problems, is the cause.

It is not only candles and lanterns that are lit at the shrines; money is exchanged and power is sustained. It is this power that has created a “docile” Sufism.

this is a very interesting point. same can be said of all religions and all sorts of groups people build.

Pakistan is a vastly unequal society. Government figures put those below the poverty line at close to 40 per cent of the population, though the true figure may be closer to 50 per cent. Inequity is the hallmark of the Sindh province of Pakistan, which is celebrated as “the land of the Sufis” and is where Sufis and Pirs hold power. A recent World Bank report noted that Sindh has the narrowest distribution of land ownership, with the richest one per cent of farmers owning 150 per cent more land than the bottom 62 per cent of farmers put together. Feudal landlords in vast parts of Sindh have holdings of thousands of acres, and most of them are Syeds or Pirs. These lands were sometimes acquired during the Mughal era but were largely consolidated during the British colonial rule in India. The British, looking for local collaborators, found Sufi Pirs willing to oblige.

Sarah Ansari, in her book, Sufi Saints and State Power: The Pirs of Sind, 1843-1947, notes: ‘the Sindhi Pirs participated in the British system of control in order to protect their privileges and to extend them further whenever and wherever possible’.

Today’s feudalists are keen to protect and promote “docile” Sufism to sustain their wealth and power – this time with US help.

the famous kabila.

Wealth is created by a pool of landless serfs who toil thousands of acres for their spiritual masters, while seeing their own children starve. These serfs create the wealth that sends the Bhuttos and the Gilanis to universities such as Oxford and Harvard, while their children get “blessings” and threads of “Pirs”. This stream of inequity from generation to generation is based on a lame theological idea, which nonetheless has been promoted by the Mughal Empire, the British Empire, the landlords themselves, and now by the American Empire, and thanks to such patronage has gained far more ground than the Taliban.

yep. the real fun begins when the taliban take this up. their kids go harvard, while back here our kids have to ford on oxes. is this equality as promised by the lord?

We the Syeds get different treatment from God Almighty, for our good deeds we get double the reward compared to ‘murids’ [non-Syeds] who only get single reward for a single good deed … but, it’s not easy to be a Syed … [he laughs] … we have to suffer double the punishment for our any wrong deeds whereas you [non-Syeds] get only single punishment for a single wrong deed!”

There you have it! Our holy man explains why he has a Land Cruiser jeep and “non-Syeds” have donkey carts. He explains why most Pakistanis are living in poverty while he and his Syeds and Pirs are lapping it up in luxury.

Contemporary Sufism is the ideology of Sindh’s landlords. It is the ideology that is used to uphold their wealth and despotism, and keeps millions in serfdom. A similar pattern is repeated throughout Pakistan. Given the lack of proportional representation and the vast inequality in power in each district between Pirs and the rest, it is almost always the case that elections flood parliament with Pirs/Syeds/landlords. The current Pakistani Prime Minister (Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani) and Foreign Minister (Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi) are examples. Both have the claim of being descended from Holy Pirs as the basis of their wealth and distinction. As a result, we cannot expect parliament to challenge inequity and injustice in Pakistan.

Parliamentarians know that lack of education, coupled with the obscurantism of contemporary Sufism, sustains their power. Like the British before them, the Americans don’t care about Pakistan’s growing multitude of serfs and the underclass, they don’t care whether the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister of Pakistan are deeply rooted in the cause of inequity and injustice in the country and part of the promotion of a system of starvation – a Sufism that tells people to take a blessing instead of demanding food, education, justice and liberty. Like the British, they will fund whoever furthers their interests. We, however, must care.

i guess that explains why the khan's foreign minister went to the shrine of a pir.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 31 Jan 2010 20:09

kmkraoind wrote: Yes, every religion has fantastics as you said, buy after certain time truth must be spoken and incidents should introspected. Now we can claim that Pushyamitra Sungha is wrong. But any muslim can tell you that Taimur, Ghazni and Gori are murderers, no, nobody. Because Islam encourages such action. Fantasists are not a threat, but religious sanction to fascism and religious fascism are danger.

What are the requirements of this 'introspection' ? A free society where everybody is free to express their opinions. But, in the so called 'Islamic States' anything against these people who are perceived as heroes by the state will result in public stoning. It's not 'Islam encourages such action' but more likely that 'The people who believe themselves to be the protectors of Islam encourage such fanaticism'.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 31 Jan 2010 20:35

KrishG wrote:What are the requirements of this 'introspection' ? A free society where everybody is free to express their opinions. But, in the so called 'Islamic States' anything against these people who are perceived as heroes by the state will result in public stoning. It's not 'Islam encourages such action' but more likely that 'The people who believe themselves to be the protectors of Islam encourage such fanaticism'.

First of all introspection is a self-conscious, not a religious text to quote a number and its verse. The self-introspection makes us believe us that Ashoka is hero and are taught of his history and actions, but not of Pushyamitra Sungha. In other words introspection means accepting criticism, ignoring and defaming bad persons, and glorying the noble souls.

No need for going against them, but reduce their importance (not like glorying them by name their armaments). Ordinary people are always manipulated, by the governments. One example is that Salman Rushdie may anger ummah, but a strong reaction from Govt of Iran has made him popular (a real hero, but as an anti-hero). But Danish cartoonist is forgotten (even I could not remember his name without googling), because no govt has taken it damn seriously.

As far as my knowledge there are no distinction between "protectors of Islam" and "followers of Islam." They of are some genre, but morph into different shapes, form and color as situation demands, but their soles resolves around the concept of "believer or non-believer," in blunt words, "with me or against me and my ethos."

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 31 Jan 2010 20:54

KrishG wrote:Every religion has fanatics and fanatic rulers who want to force people into what they believe is right. It's not just Islamic rulers, there are numerous instances of such fanatics. If you look up to the name Pushyamitra Sungha in history you'll learn that he was a fanatic Brahmin emperor who took over India after the Mauryas and massacred thousands of Buddhists (which was a new religion then) believing that India is homeland for Hindus alone.

You have be very familiar with the religious ideology when you talk about fanatics. Fanatics quote the religious ideology and doctrine to justify the acts. Show how the Pushyamitra Sungha used the religious doctrine for his act. Political control is different from fanatic and fundamentalist doctrine.
So your assumption that every religions has fanatics is a wrong comparison and a false statement.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 31 Jan 2010 20:58

Pakistani army caught romancing with taliban

The same video on Guardian and other websites has been blocked by TSP gov in nation's best interest.
at 2:10, note the free style donkey back kicks.
IMO, The new NSA should start his day by advocating Human Right violations by Pakistan. That will ensure its full circulation to all abduls.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jan 2010 21:09

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote:I have a reply for Brihaspatiji's perfectly valid viewpoint. But I believe the topic was declared unfit for this thread before Brihaspatiji's reply. My reply is guaranteed to be as far off topic for this thread as Brihaspatiji's reply.
Can't you open a shiv.blogspot.com or shiv.wordpress.com or such, and write there? You can disable comments if you don't want to get into extended debates there with any and all who come and to avoid comments from the unhinged. Similarly brihaspati can open his blog. This discussion needs to happen, IMO, even if not on BRF.

I have a livejournal blog - very infrequently updated.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 31 Jan 2010 22:25

Paki cricketers doing the Paki thing; ball tampering! Here Shahid Afridi tampers the ball by biting and chewing on it! Paki still lost the match and the ODI series 5-0. Before that they had lost the Test series 3-0.

[youtube]OOhG-_elQow&hl[/youtube]

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Jan 2010 22:27

Lilo wrote:Afridi biting the ball and giving it to asif.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOhG-_elQow

Just when you thing you have seen it all.

This should shut the nonsense IPL debate going on and on in Indian English news channels for good.

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 31 Jan 2010 22:36

Lilo wrote:Afridi biting the ball and giving it to asif.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOhG-_elQow

Don’t be silly, its Pakistan’s orange to give strength and victory. The cameraman was Indian; after the IPL you Indian insults us again.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 31 Jan 2010 22:56

KaranR wrote:
Lilo wrote:Afridi biting the ball and giving it to asif.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOhG-_elQow
Don’t be silly, its Pakistan’s orange to give strength and victory. The cameraman was Indian; after the IPL you Indian insults us again.

In India even if he is caught, India would be soooo scared of pissing TSP off that assortement of WKKs, media, and even politicians will come out and say this is needless provocation of TSP's EtchYenDee on India's part. Bakara will host a debate in a room filled with cluless dim wits on the history of ball tampering and alleged tampering by some Indian players will be shown; completely making a mockery of the misdemeneour or crime by a Paki and changing the tone of the debate. SanjayKumar put it brilliantly; India cannot even ignore TSP, let alone bring it to justice. Thats what TSP with its LeT and nuke blackmail has managed to achieve.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Feb 2010 00:48

CRams ji, don't get agitated, keep chipping away. Keep telling the truth as it is or as best you can afford under the circumstances to speak it out. We are going to possibly lose, matter of a century and half at most. But don't abandon your dharma/ righteousness/ truth for land or money. Keep hammering away. BG, Chapter 4 verse 9 will kick in at some point of time for sure, if it already has not started. The chakra in Ashok Chakra and Satyameva Jayate have meanings deeper than most of us possibly imagine or understand. The Abrahmic equivalent of the 'day of judgement' is Dharma-Adharma battle. Just be on the right side, whichever way the results.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Feb 2010 01:01

Didn't know where to post this, but this seems to be the most appropriate place.

The ISI and pakistani TV hosts were

when Hritik Roshan starrer Mission Kashmir was released, because that movie showed a Kashmiri who had become a terrorist but reformed after he saw the wrong path he had gotten into. The angst amongst the pakistanis was that mainstream cinema in India was now begining to tackle the kashmir problem. They feared that the film industry's immense sway would lead to lessening of the feeling of Jihad amongst the kashmiri youth. The TV hosts went on to claim that RAW sponsored such movies in India, and they were vowing that they should do the same, though in Pakistan.

Now the IEDology of pakistan and the teachings of Jihad haven't found any traction amongst muslim youth in India. ISI is getting desperate, they very eagerly want the Jihad to start in rightful earnest within India and they want it to be self sustaining. This they feel is the only way they will be able to unravel India. IOW Gazwa-e-hind needs to begin from within India for the pakistanis have tried their utmost from the outside and failed completely.

This brings us to Mahesh Bhatt, and others of his ilk who perhaps accept finances from dubious sources for their films.

Mahesh Bhatt was planning to make a movie called "Suicide Bomber" to launch his son Rahul Bhatt.

No prizes for guessing that this movie and script might well have been financed from Pakistan.
It is very much possible that the ISI would be using the usual route of the mumbai bhai gangs to finance such a project.

ISI now hopes to use the film industry's soft power to create sympathy for suicide bombing, and present it as a viable alternative to redress grievances amongst youth in india. They seek to glorify a suicide bomber, and suicide bombing via this.

Another such example, although from a different source was the recent Jaipur conclave, where speakers from India and the Indian subcontinent gave long vitriolic sermons to GoI on its conduct on the human rights front. They stressed the importance of giving up territory to terrorists to gain what they saw as the ephemeral high moral ground. The fact that most speakers who were not Indian citizens don't enjoy such liberal freedom of expression in their own countries. GoI allowed this conclave to go ahead unhindered.

I can imagine the headache that law enforcement agencies have trying to undercut such diabolical game plans day in and day out, while at the same time trying to ensure that Indian citizens continue to enjoy the fruits of democracy and their freedom of expression is maintained. It is a delicate balance and some nimble jugglery is needed to keep an eye open for so many such moves throughout the country on a daily basis. On our part we need to be aware and vigilant, recognize such moves directed towards undermining India and the ethos of India from within.

I feel that the film industry is being used as a channel not just as a massive money laundering operation, but also increasingly to subtly convey a certain viewpoint that can only benefit the enemies of India.

My two cents. please give your feedback.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Feb 2010 01:09

As espected, Afridi apologises (to) nation for ball-tempering

Shahid Afridi has sought apology from the nation after admitting that he tempered the ball ‘for helping the bowlers’ in the last ODI against Australia played here on Sunday.

Afraid-y wants the nation of cheaters, liars and confidence tricksters to apologize?

Actually I wanted to help out my bowlers

And, I thought he was gnawing on a ball-tempura.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Feb 2010 01:16

Does anyone remember the Pakistani Umpires in the Cricket matches in the 70s and the 80s? Those guys used to cheat like hell more so in India-Pakistan matches. I was a kid and used to play a lot of cricket, and everytime our umpire cheated he was called a pakistani umpire.

A nation of liars and cheaters indeed. Afridi, his stock might actually go up for what he did, not for apologizing for what he did.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Feb 2010 01:19

Ancient South Asian history

No prizes for guessing which South Asian nation gets the credits. I had a feeling sooner than later that these beggars will claim Indian history for their own.

Students of ancient South Asian history often encounter names such as Panini and Kautilya. It was due to the rich culture of learning and research that ancient Pakistan attracted students from all over the world to its centres of scholarship with Taxila being one of the most advanced universities of the time.

Dr Ahmad Hassan Dani who has in large part dug out the historical roots of the country and its people.

His deep understanding of the local knowledge and conventional wisdom in addition to a hold over modern scientific education. From this vantage point, he interpreted the process of continuity and change in the long history of Pakistan.

Dr Dani weaves the social and cultural threads of the people of Pakistan with their long forgotten past. He states, "The geographical locale of Pakistan has determined the movements of peoples along with whom their cultures have followed. It is the inner capacity of the Indus valley which has absorbed both of them and it is out of this ethnic intermixture and cultural intermingling that a new Indus pattern has developed. That pattern is the heritage that belongs to the people of Pakistan."

"Thus in this long period of history several political changes took place and brought in foreign rulers who exercised outside influences. The period began with the rule of the Achaemenians; followed by that of Alexander the Great, and with a short break of the Mauryan rule, there came about the long period of the Bactrian Greeks, the Scythians, the Parthians, the Kushans, the Huns and finally Turki Shahis and Hindu Shahis. All of them exerted great cultural influences which have left unforgettable legacy to present Pakistan. They helped in the creation of the Golden Age of Gandhara and they gave a new basis to the development of Buddhism into a new type called Mahayana Buddhism. Towards the closing years this was replaced by Hinduism, which has left behind many Hindu temples all over the region. In some parts of Balochistan and Northern Areas of Pakistan Zoroastrianism was followed and it left deep influence behind in the ritual practices, shrines and rock carvings, which all became dormant and gradually forgotten in human memory with the coming of Islam."

Dr Dani was also well-aware of the importance of the movements of the people in history. Thus, he sees the development of civilisation in Pakistan as a process of syncretism, assimilation and amalgamation.

There you have it folks. Pretty soon these usurpers will claim Yoga, Vedas, Puranas and Arthshashtra as their own.

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 01 Feb 2010 01:50

anupmisra wrote:Ancient South Asian history

There you have it folks. Pretty soon these usurpers will claim Yoga, Vedas, Puranas and Arthshashtra as their own.

Quite ironic that Pakis going around claiming the legacy of Chanakya, Mahayana Buddhism while worshipping turk/arab invaders who burnt down Takshashila / Nalanda and fostering Taliban who destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas!

OT but may be they are getting inspired/inspiring by their taller than mountain friends!
X - post

China claims to have '1st pop singer in Sanskrit', may present her during World Expo

"She is also called the 'first Chinese Sanskrit singer'. To Sa Dingding, who she was in the past is not important now... To preserve her new image, she must eliminate all distractions," the local government of Tibet said on its website.

Sa, who graduated from the Academy of Fine Arts run by the People's Liberation Army, sings in the language of Inner Mongolia, Tibet and in Sanskrit. Sa is not a Tibetan although she sings in Sanskrit and Tibetan and dresses in grandiose Tibetan clothing.

"We should pay more attention to her music, to the Zen sensation and Buddhist spirit in her music," it further said. The official site went on to say that "Her musical inspirations all come from Chinese civilization and culture."

Apparently, the local government is pushing her to give up song writing and singing in languages other than Sanskrit so she can be presented to the world as a symbol of China's rich cultural heritage.

"It is possible China may be trying to show that Sanskrit is part of its cultural heritage. What better way to draw world attention than to get a lovely voice to sing pop?," a Shanghai based expert on Chinese culture told TNN.{When did Sanskrit become part of Chinese cultural heritage? }

I am more dismayed by the inaction on the part of India in preserving and propagating its ancient culture/heritage, which allows assorted barbarians to claim any thing and get away with it.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Feb 2010 02:08

Wherefrom comes the "mandarin" as in "mandarin chinese"?

As per Wiki: "The English term comes from the Portuguese mandarim or Dutch mandarĳn, from Indonesian/Malay məntəri, from Hindi mantri, from Sanskrit mantrin (meaning councilor or minister[4]); it is a translation of the Chinese term Guānhuà (simplified Chinese: 官话; traditional Chinese: 官話), which literally means the language of the mandarins (imperial magistrates). "

If your language has a Sanskrit name, then I'm sure Sanskrit is a part of your heritage.

Agreed, Indians hold treasure that they do not value as much as they ought to.

PS: As far as I know, both China and Japan have ancient collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, accumulated from the times when they used to come to India to study Buddhism.

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 01 Feb 2010 02:10

CRamS wrote:
In India even if he is caught, India would be soooo scared of pissing TSP off that assortement of WKKs, media, and even politicians will come out and say this is needless provocation of TSP's EtchYenDee on India's part. Bakara will host a debate in a room filled with cluless dim wits on the history of ball tampering and alleged tampering by some Indian players will be shown; completely making a mockery of the misdemeneour or crime by a Paki and changing the tone of the debate. SanjayKumar put it brilliantly; India cannot even ignore TSP, let alone bring it to justice. Thats what TSP with its LeT and nuke blackmail has managed to achieve.

You forgot about SRK. "Its so good to have Pakistan as a neighbor"

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Feb 2010 02:12

harbans wrote:We are going to possibly lose, matter of a century and half at most.

In 1900, would anyone have thought that the sun would indeed set on the British Empire? It took less than 50 years.

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 01 Feb 2010 02:37

A_Gupta wrote: PS: As far as I know, both China and Japan have ancient collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, accumulated from the times when they used to come to India to study Buddhism.

Agreed, but the context here is not cultural/philosophical connections but propaganda to revise history to create an illusion of ancient glory.

It is important to note that it is the revisionist ideology in PRC and TSP which is behind all the insecurity in their actions. In the case of TSP they have nothing to begin with other than hatred for the SDRE infidel, which can only be legtimized by idolizing the Arab-Turk plunderers. Unfortunately it creates lots of bad publicity at least in recent years, hence the need to appropriate Chanakya, Buddha etc. for at least a few in the society. This is again a propaganda initiative, Pukis would be the last specimen on earth to have any interest in the teachings of uber infidels/idolaters like Chankaya/ Goutama.

Same goes with PRC, with the new found zeal to resurrect Confucius and more adventurous attempt at appropriating Buddhism/Sanskrit/Tibetan culture.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Feb 2010 03:11

Masaru: any indigenous-to-Pakistan movement to roll back its Arabization, or rather its becoming a nation of deracinated Muslims will have to reclaim the history that it shares with India. Yet to avoid being strangled even as it is born, such a movement will have to not mention India at all.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Feb 2010 03:33

A_Gupta wrote:Masaru: any indigenous-to-Pakistan movement to roll back its Arabization, or rather its becoming a nation of deracinated Muslims will have to reclaim the history that it shares with India. Yet to avoid being strangled even as it is born, such a movement will have to not mention India at all.

They will not mention India for some time since millions of Pakistanis have been given the view that they are independent civilization. Indus and the civilization is only Pakistani from 5000 years ago.

It will take another generation after 2030 to acknowledge the pre-history of Islam in Pakistan or Indian sub-continent.

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 01 Feb 2010 03:44

Gagan wrote:Didn't know where to post this, but this seems to be the most appropriate place.

The ISI and pakistani TV hosts were when Hritik Roshan starrer Mission Kashmir was released, because that movie showed a Kashmiri who had become a terrorist but reformed after he saw the wrong path he had gotten into. The angst amongst the pakistanis was that mainstream cinema in India was now begining to tackle the kashmir problem. They feared that the film industry's immense sway would lead to lessening of the feeling of Jihad amongst the kashmiri youth. The TV hosts went on to claim that RAW sponsored such movies in India, and they were vowing that they should do the same, though in Pakistan.

Now the IEDology of pakistan and the teachings of Jihad haven't found any traction amongst muslim youth in India. ISI is getting desperate, they very eagerly want the Jihad to start in rightful earnest within India and they want it to be self sustaining. This they feel is the only way they will be able to unravel India. IOW Gazwa-e-hind needs to begin from within India for the pakistanis have tried their utmost from the outside and failed completely.

This brings us to Mahesh Bhatt, and others of his ilk who perhaps accept finances from dubious sources for their films.

Mahesh Bhatt was planning to make a movie called "Suicide Bomber" to launch his son Rahul Bhatt.

No prizes for guessing that this movie and script might well have been financed from Pakistan.
It is very much possible that the ISI would be using the usual route of the mumbai bhai gangs to finance such a project.

ISI now hopes to use the film industry's soft power to create sympathy for suicide bombing, and present it as a viable alternative to redress grievances amongst youth in india. They seek to glorify a suicide bomber, and suicide bombing via this.

Another such example, although from a different source was the recent Jaipur conclave, where speakers from India and the Indian subcontinent gave long vitriolic sermons to GoI on its conduct on the human rights front. They stressed the importance of giving up territory to terrorists to gain what they saw as the ephemeral high moral ground. The fact that most speakers who were not Indian citizens don't enjoy such liberal freedom of expression in their own countries. GoI allowed this conclave to go ahead unhindered.

I can imagine the headache that law enforcement agencies have trying to undercut such diabolical game plans day in and day out, while at the same time trying to ensure that Indian citizens continue to enjoy the fruits of democracy and their freedom of expression is maintained. It is a delicate balance and some nimble jugglery is needed to keep an eye open for so many such moves throughout the country on a daily basis. On our part we need to be aware and vigilant, recognize such moves directed towards undermining India and the ethos of India from within.

I feel that the film industry is being used as a channel not just as a massive money laundering operation, but also increasingly to subtly convey a certain viewpoint that can only benefit the enemies of India.

My two cents. please give your feedback.

Gagan. Good post, even though you have no sources, I'll take your word for it. Coming to Bollywood being used by Pakistanis to make money- That has been happening from a long time and big stars such as SRK/Salman/Hrithik have all worked with these Pakistani based bhais. Coming to spreading their own agenda - I would find that unlikely. The Indian audience would just not accept it. Yes, people like Mahesh Bhatt might work on a Pakistani movie but making a movie in India for Pakistan's purpose is not gonna be accepted and that person is not going to be spared by the Shiv Sena/RSS.

Maybe our external spy agency should look at Bollywood closely and see where the money is coming from.

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Feb 2010 04:22

2 paki fauj get their 72

Two soldiers were killed instantly and two more injured when the vehicle they were traveling in was targeted with a remote-controlled bomb in Lakro sub-division of Mohmand Agency, an army statement said.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Feb 2010 04:23

A_Gupta wrote:....will have to reclaim the history that it shares with India.

Therefore, the confusion amongst the faithful. One can't reclaim something (even history) that was not it's to begin with. Islam requires its faithful into giving up of all their origin and total submission to the new faith. That is a requirement. If, as the pukis state, that turks and arabs maurauders are their ancestors, thus they did not originate from here (Ancient India), therefore they have no claim to the region's history. As a matter of principle, pakis should be laying claim to the glorius history of Anatolia and ancient Byzantine, and leave India alone. Otherwise, there wil come a day when the pakis currently settled in England, Norway and Sweden will claim the local Norse history as its own.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Feb 2010 04:31

Jaahil Online: Pakistan lost because of green soles on shoes. Watch 3:35 onwards.

YYY vitriol with a religious twist. Mods please see this and delete if necessary.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Feb 2010 04:35

It is too optimistic to expect Pakistanis to reclaim Indian history as their own. At least not until India convincingly establishes economic and technological superiority to all Islamic societies.

The key concept is jahiliyat. One should be well acquainted with this term to understand Islamic dynamics.

Perhaps a closer study of Iran and Indonesia would provide clues to inoculate Pakistanis against this prejudice. Of course in the case of Iran there is the major matter of Shia.

So possibly a study of the vegetarian Islam of Indonesia might be instructive.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Feb 2010 04:38

Gagan wrote:Jaahil Online: Pakistan lost because of green soles on shoes. Watch 3:35 onwards.
[YYY vitriol with a religious twist. Mods please see this and delete if necessary.

Are they gonna stop walking on grass with green color or wait till it dies and turn dark,brown with SDRE look. What a retard bunch of fools!!.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Feb 2010 04:42

anupmisra, This is third attempt at identity being engineered. The first was "not Indian". So this phase saw the cliche of descendants of Arabs, Turco-Afghan-Persian raiders who were bound by glue of religion. Next after 1971 the Nazar-e-Pakistan cliche was propagated. Now they have their won syncretic vision of identity after 9/11. Even this wont hold for it depends on Urdu which was developed as Deccani.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Feb 2010 05:06

ramana wrote:anupmisra, This is third attempt at identity being engineered. The first was "not Indian". So this phase saw the cliche of descendants of Arabs, Turco-Afghan-Persian raiders who were bound by glue of religion. Next after 1971 the Nazar-e-Pakistan cliche was propagated. Now they have their won syncretic vision of identity after 9/11. Even this wont hold for it depends on Urdu which was developed as Deccani.

You are right, Ramana. Consider the cliched response of an average puki when asked "who are you?". The typical response from 1940's onwards till '70s was "we dont know but we know we are not Indians". Now, fast forward to the 21st century, there is a measured acceptance of pakjabis to "discover" long lost bhaichara with Indian Punjabis (Hindus and Sikhs alike) and Indian Sindhis. Recall that much of our ancient literature and religious books were first composed in this region, and ancient tribes that find mention in Mahabharat and Puranas as still setteled in this region (my dad wrote a well-researched book on Ancient Indian Dynasties). Once the Indian Punjabis and Sindhis start to take the bait, the next step in this evolutionary thinking will start. That is when the pakjabis will start claiming ancient Indian history in its entirety and the very name of India as theirs. That's when their lost identity will be "found".

I wish one would start a separate thread on BRF to discuss the evolution of how pukis have been usurping ancient India and its legacy as its own, starting from the IVC.