Intelligence & National Security Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jan 2010 22:13

pgbhat wrote:Going by the petty comforts the dude was after, one gets the impression that Chaturvedi could have been easily bought off.

Makes you wonder GOI denies such minor perks for its retired highest level officials (non IFS)? Is it because of cadre pecking order? I dont know and am asking.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 30 Jan 2010 22:47

^^^

Perhaps so. But I know dozens of retired Secretaries/Generals/Admirals/Air marshals/etc etc, who have got bye just fine without such perks. Thats a relatively minor perk, and thats a relatively small part of the article. The bits about renting his own house to R&AW, sidelining competent officials in order to promote his favorites, and his wife enjoying government hospitality abroad at the cost of the public exchequer, are of far greater concern.

negi · Post by **negi** » 30 Jan 2010 22:56

This again re affirms the need to revamp India's security apparatus specially the R&AW and all power to PC Chidambaram perhaps need for accountability and transparency will avoid such

moments.

* "Inki Laaj bahut rakh li hamnein" .

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 30 Jan 2010 22:57

Check Bangladeshi newspapers. They are running exposes giving details of
Fake Indian Currency (FIC) groups activities in bangladesh. How and when
"Pakistani Military Intelligence" (read ISI) is recruiting and helping them,
their modus operandi, contact people, connection with BNP leaders, etc.
etc.are are now being published.

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Jan 2010 23:09

RAW officers are posted in Indian embassies and missions abroad under two categories, “undeclared” and “declared”. In “undeclared” postings, they go undercover as ifs officers, although their real assignment is to gather intelligence. But most embassies and high commissions also have “declared” posts, allowing Indian embassies to liaison with the intelligence agencies of that nation.

So, "undeclared" posting != NOC?

From what is given above, both "undeclared" and "declared" are confined to embassy only.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jan 2010 23:59

negi wrote:This again re affirms the need to revamp India's security apparatus specially the R&AW and all power to PC Chidambaram perhaps need for accountability and transparency will avoid such moments.

* "Inki Laaj bahut rakh li hamnein" .

The article could be shape such feelings. Take it as a data point.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 31 Jan 2010 00:50

sum wrote:
RAW officers are posted in Indian embassies and missions abroad under two categories, “undeclared” and “declared”. In “undeclared” postings, they go undercover as ifs officers, although their real assignment is to gather intelligence. But most embassies and high commissions also have “declared” posts, allowing Indian embassies to liaison with the intelligence agencies of that nation.
So, "undeclared" posting != NOC?

From what is given above, both "undeclared" and "declared" are confined to embassy only.

Yes, undeclared != NOC, since you are still a diplomat with immunity. Also because ALL diplomats will get fingered at some point by host country's counter intel. True NOC would be working in the target country as a professional or business/media person or some such thing just like a regular person and running your agents. Of course, if caught you will be left to hung dry with no support or acknowledgment from your own country, in most cases atleast.

Added later: Mahendra Vyas from Dileep's Spy Story-1 was a NOC agent

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 31 Jan 2010 00:52

Chaturvedi's antics are not new. There have been such stories for last few years even before PC came to Home ministry. He seems to enjoy political patronage! There were news of Chaturvedi totally spoiling the morale of RAW. I am glad he is finally out.

PC perhaps made one mistake in Telangana. apart from that, he appears to have a solid grip on the issues at hand. I for one am glad that PC is at the helm in these times.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 31 Jan 2010 12:48

Farming company buys thousands of acres of barren land near border, raises alert

Need to keep an eye on this company.
Are there no restrictions on companies buying land near border areas ?

MUMBAI: Why is a little known agricultural land development company buying thousands of acres of desert land in a highly sensitive border

district where nothing grows and no one lives? The question itself is enough to give a headache to security experts. But what complicates matters further is that the company has gradually accumulated approximately 10,000 acres of land near the India-Pakistan border in Rajasthan’s Barmer district, not in a single transaction but in 681 separate purchase deals which started in 2002 and 2003.

The seriousness of the matter can be adjudged from the fact that the central government has ordered a ‘‘detailed inquiry’’ into these land transactions made by a firm called Pearl Agrotech Corporation Ltd (PACL). ‘‘The ministry of home affairs is closely monitoring the investigations in coordination with the state government of Rajasthan,’’ said a highly-placed defence official.

the nearly 400sqkm of land that it has bought is entirely in the Thar Desert. All the land falls under two police stations of Sheo and Chohtan. While Chohtan tehsil is directly on the international border with Pakistan, Sheo is more than 50km from the district headquarters of Barmer. There is no major road leading up to these villages. What may have sent alarm bells ringing is that in strategic terms the area in which so much land has been purchased by a private company is extremely sensitive.

Apart from sharing a long international border with Pakistan, Barmer also houses Uttarlai — the Indian Air Force’s first underground airbase. It is at this forward base that fighter jets are kept in a constant state of readiness to immediately counter any threat from Pakistan. In fact the Pakistani army was routed in the historic Battle of Longewala during the 1971 war largely because jets could scramble from Uttarlai to bomb enemy tanks.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Jan 2010 13:01

Hmm interesting specially when we hear about TSPA digging tunnels in the vicinity of the LoC on the other side.

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 31 Jan 2010 13:38

Rupesh wrote:Farming company buys thousands of acres of barren land near border, raises alert

Need to keep an eye on this company.
Are there no restrictions on companies buying land near border areas ?

Posting Links and Information as i am sure the links will survive..

PACL

Genuine savings through PACL India Limited

Pearls Agrotech Corporation Limited (PACL India Limited) is a PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY that was established in 1983 and was honoured with the 'corporate' status in the year 1996. Some of the interesting features of the organisation are as listed below...

* Executive Committee Member of the FICCI (Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industries)
* Had won Indian Government's prestigious Vikas Rathan, Vijayshree, Lokshree, Pride of India, Pride of Asia awards and many gold medals along with the planning commission award and many other international awards until today primarily for the kind of service by the company
* Which has possession of not even a single paise of any of the investors till date. Returning the maturity amount worth in crores every year to all of its investors for the past 20 years
* Provides small saving schemes which also automatically gives investors an accidental insurance coverage
* Prime contributor to Green Revolution in India as the basic operation of work is based on agriculture
* Had provided employment (part-time working opportunities) to around lakhs of people in India until today
* Has 220 branches all over India
* Has thousands of acres of agricultural land all over India for the agricultural activities of the organisation

PACL India Limited is an organisation established in 1983 and had recently celebrated it's silver jubilee. Organisation, controlled by the 'Registrar of Companies' of India, has 1000's of acres of agricultural land in which they grow short term herbs and export. Organisation has a number of small saving schemes (Recurring and Fixed Deposits) that yields comparatively higher returns with any other comparable industries (banks, post offices, etc).

Another Website

About PACL India Limited
PACL India Limited (Pearls) is India's Premier Real Estate Development Company with Multi-dimensional port folio ranging from commercial to retail and residential segments. The company is also engaged in sale and purchase of agricultural land and supported with huge land bank. The company has strong in-house R&D and accordingly varied agricultural activities are being carried out based on geographical location of Farms e.g. production of Wheat, Paddy and Vegetables in Northern India and Mangoes, Pomegranate, Sapota, Amla, Cashew Nuts etc. in Southern States

PACL (Pearls):

Incorporated under Company’s Act 1956. Headquartered at 7th Floor, Gopaldas Bhawan, 28, Barakhamba Road, New Delhi - 01 Understand the need of changing world and develop customized residential and commercial complexes, keeping in mind stringent quality policy and international standard infrastructure practices. Committed to deliver the projects in time following international construction standards. Current ongoing construction projects are at Noida, Delhi, Zirakpur, Mohali, Bathinda, Mumbai, Pune, Vadodara, Madurai. Having diversified interest in Tourism and Hospitality.

VISION
To drive and sustain real estate leadership across country through dedication, innovation, quality, technology, product and service delivery, employees and customer.

MISSION
To provide comfortable, convenient, luxurious, healthy, hygienic and echo friendly complexes To deliver the buildings in time with full value of money. To maximize efficiency and performance driving total customer satisfaction.

CORE VALUES
Corporate culture that breeds innovation, passion and hunger for success. Apply the highest standard in performance of our work. Work together to achieve our common goals. Accountable to colleagues and customers. Open to new ideas. Compliance and respect for all community environment and legal requirements. Uninterrupted efforts to enhance employees and customer satisfaction.

Managing Hotels

Choice Hotels India’s (CHI) Quality Inn and Clarion brands are slated to be launched in Goa and Lonavla respectively. As per details received from a CHI official, the hotels are expected to start operations by early 2010. CHI will operate both the properties on a management contract basis.

The Quality Inn Oceanique coming up in Goa will have 50 rooms, a multi-cuisine restaurant bar and a discotheque. The hotel is being developed by Pearls Agrotech Corporation Ltd (PACL) India. Likewise, the Clarion Resort Astrix, Karla near Lonavla will have 117 rooms with a multi-cuisine restaurant and bar and is being developed by Pune-based Astrix Group. CHI’s ‘Quality Inn’ brand is positioned as a full service mid-scale brand, while ‘Clarion’ is the upscale/luxury brand.

CHI intends to develop its brands across Tier II and Tier III locations, with upcoming hotels in Hyderabad, Pune, Kodaikanal, Amritsar and Gurgaon. Currently, CHI has 27 operational Choice Hotels in India across 20 destinations.

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Jan 2010 14:51

Yes, undeclared != NOC, since you are still a diplomat with immunity. Also because ALL diplomats will get fingered at some point by host country's counter intel. True NOC would be working in the target country as a professional or business/media person or some such thing just like a regular person and running your agents. Of course, if caught you will be left to hung dry with no support or acknowledgment from your own country, in most cases atleast.

Thanks a lot for the reply, Marut-ji.

From your knowledge, does India also operate NOCs ( no need to be specific but just a confirmation if even India follows the NOC model or is everything via only the diplomat/embassy route)?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 31 Jan 2010 17:57

From your knowledge, does India also operate NOCs ( no need to be specific but just a confirmation if even India follows the NOC model or is everything via only the diplomat/embassy route)?

All the time, though most often these "NOCs" are people that are nowhere near as sexy or high profile as those depicted in Hollywood films..Someone who works for an intel agency without diplomatic cover in a foreign country -deleted

Many a time such people are deeply embedded in the society he is operating in - a really "great" example would be Eli Cohen..It is quite tough for any intel officer under diplomatic cover to do fiedwork when posted in hostile terrain - they are tailed day in and day out....

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 31 Jan 2010 18:02

They even had NOCs in western nations back in the 90's. Most of this is now over. But probably to a very small extent in TSP. Probably picked up post 26/11, was probably non existant pre 26/11.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 31 Jan 2010 19:32

shyamd wrote:They even had NOCs in western nations back in the 90's. Most of this is now over. But probably to a very small extent in TSP. Probably picked up post 26/11, was probably non existant pre 26/11.

There would have to be literally hundreds, if not thousands in our immeidate neighbourhood..Most of these guys, call them NOCs or anything else do very mundane jobs..Tallying flights happeneing everyday out of key airbases, movement in and out of garrison towns etc etc...Tactical intel stuff...Helps analysts back home to piece together the info (along with tons of other info from techint, imint etc) to hopefully establish trends and preempt events...They are not paid well, they are typically low level recruits, and if they get caught they typically languish in jails....

that is why Kargil was such a huge intel failure...According to Kaisar Tufail's blog report, Skardu and Muzzaffarabad were teeming with armymen talking about "action"..there was also Paki acquisition of wintor clothing in a major way from some North European countries..All this info would have been available in some form, the relevant analysts obviously failed to piece them together into a viable threat scenario..

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Jan 2010 22:19

There would have to be literally hundreds, if not thousands in our immeidate neighbourhood..Most of these guys, call them NOCs or anything else do very mundane jobs..Tallying flights happeneing everyday out of key airbases, movement in and out of garrison towns etc etc...Tactical intel stuff...Helps analysts back home to piece together the info (along with tons of other info from techint, imint etc) to hopefully establish trends and preempt events...They are not paid well, they are typically low level recruits, and if they get caught they typically languish in jails....

Somnath-ji,
Thanks fr the info. Was aware of NOCs in Pak and neighboring countries but was wondering if such personnel were available at India's service in the west and hot spots like A'tan and the ME?

Does the RAW also tap non-intel regular visitors/businessmen in different countries for "small errands" the way the Chinese do?

They even had NOCs in western nations back in the 90's. Most of this is now over. But probably to a very small extent in TSP. Probably picked up post 26/11, was probably non existant pre 26/11.

Depressing read.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 01 Feb 2010 08:46

sum wrote:Somnath-ji,
Thanks fr the info. Was aware of NOCs in Pak and neighboring countries but was wondering if such personnel were available at India's service in the west and hot spots like A'tan and the ME?

Does the RAW also tap non-intel regular visitors/businessmen in different countries for "small errands" the way the Chinese do?

Well, if I knew and told you, I would have to kill you!

But one can safely deduce that we would have considerable resources in our near abroad - recall news reports on how India got real time info on the Kunduz airlift?

About the second point, who knows? The Israelis use such "dormant/recessed" resources quite often...They are called sayans..There isnt any record of any Indian agency using them..

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Feb 2010 09:04

somnath wrote: Well, if I knew and told you, I would have to kill you! But one can safely deduce that we would have considerable resources in our near abroad - recall news reports on how India got real time info on the Kunduz airlift?

You sure that wasn't just Techint mixed with yintel from TSP side?

About the second point, who knows? The Israelis use such "dormant/recessed" resources quite often...They are called sayans..There isnt any record of any Indian agency using them..

If only India utilises their sayanim.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Feb 2010 09:14

China hacking: Cabinet Secy to meet IT experts

...Government sources said the February 9 meeting has been convened after a sweep of computers in the Prime Minister's Office by National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) last month and checks of the Home Ministry network by the IT experts last November found malware programmed to unauthorisedly access files and transmit them outside India.

According to government cyber experts, the malware was sending files to an unknown IP address. Further investigations with top Internet companies in the US revealed that the IP address was exporting the vital information, which includes drafts and highly secure data, to servers in mainland China. These companies also confirmed to the Indian security agencies that hacker activity from China had been noticed in the past too.

...
...
While China has denied that it was behind hacking PMO computers, top bureaucrats, security and intelligence chiefs have been strongly advised to use standalone computers with no Internet link.

In case the data is to be transferred, they have been told to burn a CD and then uplink the data in case it has to be exported to other government departments
...
...

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Feb 2010 09:39

ASPuar wrote:The bits about renting his own house to R&AW, sidelining competent officials in order to promote his favorites,

Gen.V.K Singh who had written a book on R&AW did mention about such incidents. Being a Signals officer he was in charge of communication. At one place he found out that a monitoring station was located at a place which was totally un-fit for operating communication equipments. But the house was chosen because it was owned by a relative (or could be a benami) of a high ranking intelligence officer in the area.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 01 Feb 2010 11:11

Sachin wrote:
ASPuar wrote:The bits about renting his own house to R&AW, sidelining competent officials in order to promote his favorites,
Gen.V.K Singh who had written a book on R&AW did mention about such incidents. Being a Signals officer he was in charge of communication. At one place he found out that a monitoring station was located at a place which was totally un-fit for operating communication equipments. But the house was chosen because it was owned by a relative (or could be a benami) of a high ranking intelligence officer in the area.

I wonder if that is surprising given our way of looking at life!

Jyoti Basu lived in a palatial house that was a Govt Guest House and he was just an ordinary citizen!

None complained!

Teen Murti is a Museum!

Quo Vadis, India?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 01 Feb 2010 14:00

putnanja wrote:China hacking: Cabinet Secy to meet IT experts

For all the brouhaha, the Chinese attempts at hacking, if at all these are really Chinese, are extremely amaterurish..Even guys who do this for "serious fun" dont leave, or at least try not to leave trail..But the Chinese seem to be leaving trails all over the place...That is not really an example of a professional espionage effort, where the attempt should be to gather intel rather than create noise...

I wonder what our capabilities are in aggressive cyber warfare, not just defences..NTRO by now should be really building up some capabilities in that domain...Back some years back when I was a student in DELhi (actually lots of years coming to think of it!), one had heard of a couple of guys from IIT-D that RAW had recruited..Wonder if that trend still continues..

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Feb 2010 20:36

Indian intelligence revamp to tackle terror

Indian Intelligence agencies would soon have to opt for a drastic change in operational style to augment among others the 'honey-trap' strategy to lure terrorists.

Keen to take up a major role to fight terror in South Asia and the Afghanistan-Pakistan region, Indian security agencies are working on key suggestions and advisories from the USA, Intelligence sources said here.

According to US Intelligence advisories based on their experience of tracking Islamic militants in Afghan region and elsewhere, the government of India has been asked to work on modalities for "luring terrorists in honey-trap by preying on the weaknesses of the militants for pretty women and fairer sex".

Sources said the centre is, however, in a dilemma on executing certain suggestions like the honey-trap modality.

"This is one area of intelligence operations, the Indian agencies have inherent weaknesses. For traditional and cultural reasons the honey-trap mechanism has not evolved much in Indian agencies," sources said.

According to sources, the American sleuths also advised their New Delhi counterparts to work on specific areas to meet the new generation challenges from terror operatives.

US officials have pointed out that in recent times the Islamic militants especially in Af-Pak region have shown much improvement in making use of advanced technologies in giving slips to the security apparatus.

There have been instances like terror functionaries successfully concealing microphones and cameras in zipper of trousers. Some have even passed on 'undetectable explosives' in the form of digital watches.

The government of India has also been advised to ensure adequate health support for sleuths and informers as many US informers and agents working in that region have suffered 'terror-fatigue' and often suffered strokes and heart attacks, sources said.

By Nirendra Dev

The Statesman/Asia News Network

Good news, the US is telling India to get its HUMINT act together. At least someone is telling Indian intel to sort itself out. However, I am worried about the huge reliance on foreign intelligence on LeT's foreign activities coming from western intel. I am happy that they are passing it on, BUT why aren't we penetrating these networks in the Gulf/abroad.. Its a question that really needs to be asked. Current state of intel apparatus reminds me of CIA of the late 80's, over reliance on TECHINT (which is very good but incomplete without HUMINT).

I guess our partnership with Iran will be useful in Af-Pak, but what about GCC region?

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Feb 2010 21:33

BUT why aren't we penetrating these networks in the Gulf/abroad.. Its a question that really needs to be asked.

Shyam-saar,
are you so sure that we are so utterly hopeless in penetrating ME and Paki networks ( HUMINT wise)?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Feb 2010 21:45

sum wrote:Shyam-saar,
are you so sure that we are so utterly hopeless in penetrating ME and Paki networks ( HUMINT wise)?

Pretty sure... Yes. Of course there are instances where IB has penetrated certain modules(IB isnt too bad in some ways because their job is easier, the successes seem to be domestic but not internationally. Okay you can argue about Khwaja's arrest recently, lets just hope that sort of ops continues - wasnt it an IB op rather than a RAW op? Outside of India is RAW jurisdiction.). But there is still so much to be done in TSP/ME and outside the region (europe - recent purchase of paragliders) (which technically comes under RAW). Half the time, we know where the IM managers are only because of intercepts or based on arrested guys.

Foreign HUMINT - from Af-TSP/Gulf is not that good. Needs a lot of work.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Feb 2010 23:21

Narayanan's departure heralds change

...
This can tire the toughest of men and a search is now on for someone who is well versed in security management to take the responsibility for coordinating between the various agencies all matters relating to security and surveillance.
...
The one who finally gets the job is likely to be given the rank of secretary and will be asked to head a new outfit which most probably will be called the National Security Group or Panel. The chiefs of the RAW, IB, CBI and others, barring that of Military Intelligence, will report to the NSG who will in turn report to the Home Minister.
...
...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Feb 2010 00:27

putnanja wrote:Narayanan's departure heralds change

...
This can tire the toughest of men and a search is now on for someone who is well versed in security management to take the responsibility for coordinating between the various agencies all matters relating to security and surveillance.
...
The one who finally gets the job is likely to be given the rank of secretary and will be asked to head a new outfit which most probably will be called the National Security Group or Panel. The chiefs of the RAW, IB, CBI and others, barring that of Military Intelligence, will report to the NSG who will in turn report to the Home Minister.
...
...

Organizationally this is wrong setup as HM is not the head of the govt decision makeing apparatus. It demote the intel agencies even further.

The individual should be in PMO and have those folks report on operational matters while the funding can be with parent ministry.

Home Ministry is not the ministry for Security.

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 02 Feb 2010 00:48

somnath wrote:some of this is known..But some of it is just sordid stuff..How do such people climb so high?

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264027

Agreed. Don't know how he became the chief.
I read an article in which he was abroad and left classified documents there. Where anyone can take em.
Don't really have a source for this, but if anyone wants it, i can try finding it.

ramana wrote:
Organizationally this is wrong setup as HM is not the head of the govt decision makeing apparatus. It demote the intel agencies even further.

The individual should be in PMO and have those folks report on operational matters while the funding can be with parent ministry.

Home Ministry is not the ministry for Security.

Here is how it should be

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2010 00:58

ramana wrote: Home Ministry is not the ministry for Security.

Home ministry is the ministry for internal security. Internal security is a big area of responsibility and needs a full time cabinet rank minister to deal with the issues that come up, and the minister does need to be a senior politically savvy minister.

PC is shaping the Home ministry similar to dept of homeland security of US. It makes sense to remove the non-security related work to a separate department or to departments with which they are better related to, instead of having home minister look at it.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2010 01:02

Bhaskar wrote: Here is how it should be

I don't agree with that structure. internal security cannot be solely handled by the bureaucrats. And the PM cannot always give full time attention to the issues that crop up. In India, where we currently have multiple internal security issues like naxals, terrorist in NE and J&K , smugglers all around etc, there is a need for separate ministry for security.

I am not against PM having direct access to the intelligence heads, and would prefer he do so. But day to day functioning should be with dept of home ( or security).

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 02 Feb 2010 01:07

I doubt that External intelligence will ever become the domain of the "Home" minister. This article seems speculative, and wishful thinking by certain quarters at best.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 02 Feb 2010 07:34

ASPuar wrote:I doubt that External intelligence will ever become the domain of the "Home" minister. This article seems speculative, and wishful thinking by certain quarters at best.

I would hope so..But really I think PC is gettign the system to be dovetailed according to his plans..But it will for sure be a serious downgrading of intel priorities..Internal security is one of the priorities of intel, not the only one..Not by far..

The position of a coordinating officer, a la the DNI in the US (or Mossad in Israel) is unexceptionable..But the position should report to the PM..Will the Home Ministry now take decisiosn on our operations in Balochistan? Or those in Afghanistan? OR Sri Lanka? Or Bangladesh?

IMO the idea structure would be a cabinet minister level position to have all intel agencies report to him and creation of a proper staff for that person to do the coordination bit well..The MAC is a good embryo to work off..The PM needs to have direct oversight over key security issues, it cannot be outsourced to another minister..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Feb 2010 07:59

Even before RAW was hived off, IB under MHA used to handle all intelligence. However BN Mullick etc all reported to PM.
On the other hand, old time IB hands never liked the emergence of RAW. The charge against MKN was that as NSA he gave IB primacy. Looks like PC is going to out MKN, MKN.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 02 Feb 2010 08:17

ramana wrote:Even before RAW was hived off, IB under MHA used to handle all intelligence. However BN Mullick etc all reported to PM.
On the other hand, old time IB hands never liked the emergence of RAW. The charge against MKN was that as NSA he gave IB primacy. Looks like PC is going to out MKN, MKN.

Thats true - but those were "growing up" days for a new nation. Personalities mattered more than institutions (they do sometimes even now, but...). 1962 showed up the deficiencies of a policemen staffed, Home Ministry led intel outfit in dealing with new threats..

Of late the performance of IB has been much better than that of RAW (at least from what one gathers in the public media)..For an old IB hand like MKN, that probably indicated a failure of the "RAW model" and he tried to "IB-fy" RAW..

Take the example of the Chinese cyber threats..Will Home ministry now be concerned with aggressive cyber operations against key enemy sites? It just doesnt make sense...But then a lot of othere things too dont make sense!

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 02 Feb 2010 09:21

According to US Intelligence advisories based on their experience of tracking Islamic militants in Afghan region and elsewhere, the government of India has been asked to work on modalities for "luring terrorists in honey-trap by preying on the weaknesses of the militants for pretty women and fairer sex".

Sources said the centre is, however, in a dilemma on executing certain suggestions like the honey-trap modality.

"This is one area of intelligence operations, the Indian agencies have inherent weaknesses. For traditional and cultural reasons the honey-trap mechanism has not evolved much in Indian agencies," sources said.

Didnt MK Dhar mention honey traps in his book? I distinctly remember something to that effect..But yes, I would expect huge cultural issues with something like that in India..

shyamd wrote:Foreign HUMINT - from Af-TSP/Gulf is not that good. Needs a lot of work.

HUMINT in hostile terrain is always tough - what is the levekl of American HUMINT in Iran? OR Afghanistan? Or even the famed Israeli HUMINT in Iran? The task becomes even more formidable in authoritarian countries, compared to liberal democracies..

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 02 Feb 2010 09:54

A primer for Clandestine HUMINT operational techniques

Wiki

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 02 Feb 2010 10:14

May be OT but relevant I think.

CIA moonlights in corporate world

In the midst of two wars and the fight against Al Qaeda, the CIA is offering operatives a chance to peddle their expertise to private companies on the side — a policy that gives financial firms and hedge funds access to the nation’s top-level intelligence talent, POLITICO has learned.

The firm is called Business Intelligence Advisors, and it is based in Boston. BIA was founded and is staffed by a number of retired CIA officers, and it specializes in the arcane field of “deception detection.” BIA’s clients have included Goldman Sachs and the enormous hedge fund SAC Capital Advisors, according to spokesmen for both firms.

BIA has employed active-duty CIA officers in the past, although BIA president Cheryl Cook said that has “not been the case with BIA for some time.”

But the ties between BIA and the intelligence world run deep. The name itself was chosen as a play off CIA. And the presence of so many former CIA personnel on the payroll at BIA causes confusion as to whether the intelligence firm is actually an extension of the agency itself. As a result, BIA places a disclaimer in some of its corporate materials to clarify that it is not, in fact, controlled by Langley.

BIA’s clients can put the company on a retainer for as much as $400,000 to $800,000 a year. And in return, they receive access to a variety of services, from deception detection to other programs that feature the CIA intelligence techniques.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 02 Feb 2010 11:09

Is Humint not there in Afghanistan?

Hamid Karzai was an Unocol employee at one time.

There is enough of money flowing to ensure that correct people are positioned at all levels so as to pursue the policy desired.

Musharraf has been labelled as US agent since he handed over many to the US for cash. Even the present COAS is a US fan.

I presume to survive, they play a double game!

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 02 Feb 2010 21:12

'India to be net provider of security in Indian Ocean, beyond'

WASHINGTON: Taking note of India's "growing influence" in global affairs, the US has said the country will be a net provider of security in the Indian Ocean and beyond with the growth of its military capabilities.
"The distribution of global political, economic and military power is shifting and becoming more diffuse. The rise of China, the world's most populous country, and India, the world's largest democracy, will continue to reshape the international system," said the Quadrennial Defence Review (QDR) report released by US Defence Secretary Robert Gates. ........

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 03 Feb 2010 09:39

Good analysis of what the NCTC architecture "should" look like..No emphasis on things like reporting etc, but on making the coordination seamless.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/An-intell ... 04599.aspx