Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Satya_anveshi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3532
Joined: 08 Jan 2007 02:37

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Feb 2010 11:14

It could be RAAM :P

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby arun » 07 Feb 2010 11:21

Extract from our Home Minister P. Chidambaram’s interview by CNBC-TV18’s Vir Sanghvi.

Regards 26/11 the HM says that he believes that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is “hiding some possible state actors”:

Pak hiding real 26/11 culprits: Govt

CNBC-TV18
Published on Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 08:52 .............................

Vir Sanghvi: The Pakistani attitude to what we have said is that yes they may well have been Pakistani involvement but the evidence that you have provided at a conversational or a foreign minister to foreign minister level is not enough to act in a court of law and there was considerable Indian involvement which we are playing down?

P Chidambaram: First, they are hopelessly wrong. If they want to test me on that, they should let me prosecute them.

Vir Sanghvi: Would you do that?

P Chidambaram: Of course. If they hand them over we will prosecute them on the evidence that we have got. We will prosecute Hafiz Saeed, we will prosecute (Zaki ur Rehman) Lakhvi, we will prosecute Zarar Shah.

Vir Sanghvi: Their legal system is not that different from our. If you were a prosecutor in that court do you think you can get a conviction of the evidence that you have?

P Chidambaram: Of course, my evidence plus further investigation on Pakistan soil.

Vir Sanghvi: So there is a case?

P Chidambaram: There is a cast iron case. There are transcripts, we want voice samples. They refused to provide voice samples. If voice samples are provided we will identify the handler.

Vir Sanghvi: And know who he is exactly?

P Chidambaram: Who is the handler- We will know. We suspect ten people. What does an identification parade do? You line up ten people and then you ask somebody to identify who you saw.

So if you've got a sample voice we have to match it with ten suspects isn’t it. You will know who the handler was. Today, forensic science can easily match the voice sample of a person with the real person.

Vir Sanghvi: Why do you think they are doing this?

P Chidambaram: Because they are hiding the real culprits.

Vir Sanghvi: You have said often and I think this is quite clear now that there is no will in Pakistan to go after the people who did it, I am asking you second question now, do you think there was any kind of semi-official or quasi official involvement in what happened?

P Chidambaram: I don’t know. All I know is that the so-called non-state actors they are putting forward as the culprits are not so non-state as they would like us to believe. They have got very close connections with the state.

Vir Sanghvi: Can you give me an example of what you mean by that?

P Chidambaram: For example, we know how closely Hafiz Saeed is involved with the establishment. Now leave that aside. We also know that there are state actors.

Vir Sanghvi: We know that?

P Chidambaram: Yes. We know that by nom de guerre, by assumed names.

Vir Sanghvi: How does somebody being called Brigadier saab or General saab mean that he is a state actor?

P Chidambaram: We suspect he is a state actor because the way he acted, what he did, where he was at that time, what part he played in the training, what part he played in the dispatch of the militants or terrorists. We know that.

We have to prove he is a state actor. How can you prove unless I have access to him or access to suspects, unless I investigate on Pakistan soil.

Subsequent to Kasab’s confessions and Kasab’s admission in the court, we have some more names and those names are being shared with Pakistan by the United States. Now why is Pakistan not willing to identify who those people are?

Vir Sanghvi: Which leads you to believe what?

P Chidambaram: Which leads me to believe that they are hiding some possible state actors and perhaps many other non-state actors. But I have never accepted this distinction between state actors and non-state actors as far as Pakistan is concerned because they are closely linked.

Vir Sanghvi: There were two things clear; one was that you said that there was no distinction or less distinction in Pakistan between state actors and non-state actors. The second was that you had reason to believe there were state actors involved, though you couldn’t prove it without the co-operation’s of the Pakistani authorities, I want you to talk a little about the second why is there less and less distinction?

P Chidambaram: We know that people who are so called non-state actors have worked closely with some other persons who we think are state actors. Unless we are able to crack the mask of that person, I can’t prove he is a state actor for example, I know that among the handlers there was atleast one state actor.

Vir Sanghvi: You know that?

P Chidambaram: I think he is a state actor, but I can’t prove it unless we investigate it.

Vir Sanghvi: How much certainty?

P Chidambaram: We are pretty much certain there was a state actor.

Vir Sanghvi: And you shared this with the Americans and Pakistanis?

P Chidambaram: The flow of information is not so neat, some of it comes from US and some of it goes back to US. I am not going to tell you where it came from.

Vir Sanghvi: Given your experience with Pakistan, do you believe that there is any will there or the ability to act against these people?

P Chidambaram: I think they are in two minds. I think they know that they have to move forward in order to placate international opinion, but they also know that they cannot go too far unless the people who matter bring them down.

Vir Sanghvi: People who matter in Pakistan?

P Chidambaram: Yes.

Vir Sanghvi: By that you mean what the establishment, or the Army?

P Chidambaram: There is this notorious ISI and then there is the links which ISI has with these organizations— the LeT, the JuT, the Hisbul Mujahideen, they are very closely linked and I don’t think that requires any great argument. So I think they will only do so much just to appease international opinion.

Vir Sanghvi: Then it’s back to business as usual?

P Chidambaram: That I hope doesn’t happen because if that happens it’s a new ball game then.


The verbatim interview transcript is available here:

CNBC-TV18

Bheem
BRFite
Posts: 161
Joined: 12 Sep 2005 10:27
Location: Vyom

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Bheem » 07 Feb 2010 11:33

Did we miss this vaccum bulb=manhole gas explosion=Eid celebration?

KARACHI: Thousands of people attended the funerals of the victims who lost their lives in the two massive bomb explosions, which occurred on Friday.

Death toll of the twin blasts rose to 33 as six more people died during treatment on Saturday. Sources in the hospitals of the city revealed that the death toll is expected to rise as many are still critically injured. On the other hand, police have registered two separate cases of Friday’s tragedies and believe that Al Qaeda’s involvement has initiated further investigation.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23913
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby SSridhar » 07 Feb 2010 11:43

That interview by P.Chidambaram was very clear-cut.

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4127
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby pgbhat » 07 Feb 2010 11:46

SSridhar wrote:That interview by P.Chidambaram was very clear-cut.

but PMO is not listening. :(( :cry:

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby abhishek_sharma » 07 Feb 2010 11:46

Vir Sanghvi: Then it’s back to business as usual?

P Chidambaram: That I hope doesn’t happen because if that happens it’s a new ball game then.


Let us see what the new ball game means.

rgsrini
BRFite
Posts: 738
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 18:00

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby rgsrini » 07 Feb 2010 11:54

SSridhar wrote:That interview by P.Chidambaram was very clear-cut.

I find PC very refreshing and straight forward. Very different from the opinion I had of him earlier.

Very clearly there is a tussle going on within the administration.
NSA must have few executive tasks: Chidambaram

Home Minister P Chidambaram [ Images ] on Saturday said the National Security Adviser should have very few executive responsibilities over internal security, which he felt must come under political oversight.

"... But whether he (NSA) should have executive responsibility, given the pressure of work and time, is I think an open question. My personal view is that he should have very few executive responsibilities as far as internal security is concerned. That should be given to another professional," he said.

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13109
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby negi » 07 Feb 2010 12:12

All this is bakwaas yet another gimmick to save image in public , how can one expect TSP to try and bring to book people from an agency which actually runs TSP I guess these worthies in GOI are smoking something strong. PC has fallen for state vs non state actors , this is not even funny now.

Gobermund can't get guilty disposed off under Indian penal code , HTF these retards dream about getting Lakhvi or Shah booked in TSP where these guys enjoy public support and ISI's protection .

Why is bilateral trade still continuing between the countries ? Why does TSP still enjoy MFN status as far as trade is concerned ? Why can't the flow in one of the west bound river's be actually controlled for a day or two and a signal sent to the GOP ? I don't see any steps on ground taken by GOI to pressurize pak .

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6385
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Dilbu » 07 Feb 2010 12:32

P Chidambaram: That I hope doesn’t happen because if that happens it’s a new ball game then.

PC for PM!

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Pranav » 07 Feb 2010 12:41

Dilbu wrote:
P Chidambaram: That I hope doesn’t happen because if that happens it’s a new ball game then.

PC for PM!


One hopes that he is sufficiently familiar with these other ball-games. We don't want a naive person who goes somewhere and gets poisoned (God forbid), like Lal Bahadur Shastri.

Masaru
BRFite
Posts: 242
Joined: 18 Aug 2009 05:46

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Masaru » 07 Feb 2010 13:09

Cross over: Not all who sneak across are terrorists

Get rid of all the fencing and patrols! May be the 10/12 who slipped in on 26/11 were also mesmerized by B'wood and took it a bit too far by making the plot of some 3rd rate movie real. :evil:
Almost 40 years later, Lakhanpal saw history repeat itself with Shah Rukh Khan-fan from Pakistan’s Dir village in NWFP. A mesmerised 15-year-old Nasir Sultan simply walked across from Pakistan November last year, to meet the star. The Class X student, his hairstyle like Shah Rukh’s, ended up in Faridkot’s juvenile home.


Best solution would be to send this guy along with his idol back to their ancestral land. That will spare people world over lots of headache.

The latest cross-over teenager is Lahore’s Nauman Arshad, variously described as a 13, 18 or 20-year old. He held a class IX chemistry book and Rs 10 Pak currency in his pocket when the BSF caught him last month. The BSF claimed that Nauman was a ‘potential human bomb’ on a recce operation. On the heels of rockets landing in Indian territory, Arshad raised security’s antennae. But Nauman’s police interrogation did not see any Punjab police confirm any claims. No charges of ‘human bomb potential’ were pressed either as the BSF did not lodge a written complaint.


He was just taking a stroll across mine fields and a heavily militarized border during a break from his Chemistry studies!


arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby arun » 07 Feb 2010 13:17

Wither the self proclaimed martial spirit?

The armed forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan lacks the confidence to ensure its own protection :lol: :

Sunday, February 07, 2010

Pakistan Day parade cancelled for third consecutive year

LAHORE: The annual military parade – the Pakistan Day parade – has been cancelled for the third consecutive year due to security concerns ............................

The reason that the Joint Staff Headquarters has given for the cancellation is “credible intelligence reports of serious security threats due to engagement of troops in the Tribal Areas”

Daily Times

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6794
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby CRamS » 07 Feb 2010 13:26

SSridhar wrote:But insults, interference and innuendoes will only grow when a much stronger country crawls on all its four after repeatedly absorbing blows for decades.


I didn't know whether to laugh or cry after listening to "letter from India" by Mark Tully on NPR/BBC. The topic was about Bangladesh & India warming up, but the center piece was about the "Ugly Indian" in "South Asia". Why all the neighbors including TSP abhor India because it behaves as though it is a "regional superpower". And the kicker, Mark Tully quoted SeS architect Shaym Saran as saying India must reach out its neighbors with no quid pro quo. I was disgusted. And as usual the usual crap about India not going to get international "respect" if it doesn't make out with its neighbors. Not one word about the terror. The sheer subterfuge painting India as some kind of a villian despite being the victim of its neighbor's perfidies was breathtaking.

Masaru
BRFite
Posts: 242
Joined: 18 Aug 2009 05:46

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Masaru » 07 Feb 2010 13:31

Apologies if already posted.

Why do they not color B'desh and what do those random color gradients signify?
Somebody was too high while photoshopping? :D

In 2012
Image

In 2020
Image

If wishes were horses ... [please fill in]
Last edited by Masaru on 07 Feb 2010 13:42, edited 1 time in total.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Pranav » 07 Feb 2010 13:37

Masaru wrote:Best solution would be to send this guy along with his idol back to their ancestral land. That will spare people world over lots of headache.


Info on Sharukh's father and uncle: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 541604.cms

It is said they were involved in the Quit India movement in Peshawar ... which probably means they were linked to Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan. Shahrukh needs to be educated about the treatment meted out to Bacha Khan by the Pakis ... maybe he would then not gush over their "wonderful neighbourliness".

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Feb 2010 13:40

A_Gupta wrote:Shiv,

From B, the Pakistani Army's point of view, nothing could be better than this:

B slaps
A slaps
B slaps
A slaps
B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A does nothing
etc.

B does not escalate, just keeps slapping away. B is perpetually winning, yet not diminishing the threat that gives B a primary claim on Pakistan's resources.

---

In fact this is exactly what we on BRF believe is happening. And there is very little indication that our belief is innacurate.

However I am willing to give the GoI a little slack for the post 26/11 period and the post Parakram period where something that India ("A") did may have looked like a slap to Pakistan ("B")

What can India have done that looks/feels like a slap to Pakistan? I don't know. I can only conjecture. Water related issues, possibly a spate of attacks in Pakistan with the Indian hand, or threats to play Pakistan's game of escalation but take it beyond their ability to control (Cold Start and Deepak Kapoor's "Cold Start plus")

ONLY the GoI will know if it has slapped Pakistan back, we may not know. inother words the game may be as follows

B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A does nothing
B slaps
A...??
B does nothing
A does nothing
B does nothing
A offers talks

What is "A...??". I don't know. If "A...??" is a threat that has forced Pakistan to take a peace option - only time will tell how well that has worked. If "A...??" is just "does nothing" and B is also doing nothing, then the GoI game plan of changing the game has worked.

We don;t know what will happen ahead. B may slap again. We have to see. And if B slaps again we have 3 possible responses
1) Do nothing
2) Do "A...??"
3) Declare war

Of course I am shooting in the dark. I am only trying to explain what I see in one particular way. There are other explanations that people have conjectures on teh forum.
Last edited by shiv on 07 Feb 2010 13:44, edited 1 time in total.

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby abhishek_sharma » 07 Feb 2010 13:40

CRamS wrote:And the kicker, Mark Tully quoted SeS architect Shaym Saran as saying India must reach out its neighbors with no quid pro quo.


Shyam Saran? I thought Menon drafted the Joint statement and the PM approved it.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby harbans » 07 Feb 2010 13:42

I'm afraid this is just plain infeasible. What you are talking about - NPT amendment - is both impossible and not worth much for India. It is impossible because the NPT's bylaws make it all but immutable and it is unnecessary because after the NSG clearance, India has almost all it needs from a nuclear clearance standpoint.

There is as much chance of India entering the NPT as an NWS as there is of Hafiz Mohammad Saeed converting to Buddhism.


Rangudu Ji, i am cross posting a reply from the nuke thread. It might not be so..think about this:

Rao Ji, rememeber SeS, the opposition that MMS faced from the ruling establishment itself? There was some sort of backtracking and muffled noises on part of MMS including SSM saying it was a bad draft. The pressure came from the ruling party itself. Now we have PC mking stronger statements. We had Gen Kapoor giving some strong statements. Wrt China we saw no buckling wrt HH's visit to ArP and movement of MKI squadrons and infrastructural and divisional level boosts in forward areas.

So it's not really that GOI is all complete soft, thats why i was exploring the possibility that MMS's dialogue with Pakistan could be a very top heavy initiative, that despite rumblings from some career diplomats and seasoned Paki observers, MMS is going forward with this.

Segregation of India's nuke facilities and US approvals of that are already done. Civil nuke deals with Russia, France, UK, Canada, US are already done. Thousands of tons of uranium has already been flown in. Capacity is going for a 10 fld increase, dozens of new plants are on the verge of springing up. MMS's dream project is coming true. The icing in the cake is he's done it without a similar thing being offered to Pakistan which neither has the capacity, resources, capability, reputation to be declared as an advanced and responsible nuclear power.

Also if you have noticed, India has for the first time started Officially stating in public that "India is ready to join the NPT as a NWS and further the non proliferation regime'. This is a big change in Official position, not too well covered here, but it has got significant international press.

Obama has been under some pressure on his "India neglect'. MMS's trip to US was overshadowed by the Salahi incident and inanities. Nothing much was achieved, but it was around that time that India's nuke stance changed. What will Obama do in India? How can he wow India and strengthen the ruling Congress, pro US MMS? The biggest thing he could is to recognize India's already inside the tent for all practical purposes as a NWS. There is no hope and possibility of India joining as a non-NWS. NPT is dear to dems like Obama.

The max noise against this will emanate from Paki's. They have to be placated for a few months. MMS might have taken this initiative to soften the blow when it comes about. Hence it looks jarring that the PMO should talk to Paki's at this juncture, and against the grain of seasoned advisers and Paki watchers, yet it's something we must swallow with some bitterness and consider for some time till we are a recognized NWS.

Once that happens, there's going to be little resistance left to India joining the UNSC as a permanent member. That maybe the ultimate aim of all this. These are big boosts for folks like MMS. Every PM in India or possibly even in the US wants to leave something that defines him or her in History. Bush thinks it's his opening with India that he will be remembered for, and ofset his Iraq campaign travails. Similarly for MMS it's the Nuke deal. This is is crowning glory. The legacy which he dreams to leave behind. Indian diplomats arm twisted Western nations with extremely tough talk during the NSG confrontations on India. They rode pretty rough and this was recognized here too. MMS is very determined on this front. He is committed to bringing this part to it's logical end.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6794
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby CRamS » 07 Feb 2010 13:42

abhishek_sharma wrote:
CRamS wrote:And the kicker, Mark Tully quoted SeS architect Shaym Saran as saying India must reach out its neighbors with no quid pro quo.


Shyam Saran? I thought Menon drafted the Joint statement and the PM approved it.


Yes, that was my mistake, Mart Tully just quoted SS, he didn't say anything about SeS.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Feb 2010 13:47

CRamS wrote:I didn't know whether to laugh or cry after listening to "letter from India" by Mark Tully


:mrgreen: CRS! It's too serious to laugh. You must cry!

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6385
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Dilbu » 07 Feb 2010 14:07

3) Declare war

Hmm.. Let us see. It would be darn inconvenient for Indian public if SRK film releases are affected by a war. What about economy ZOMG?? I am not even getting started about the important T20 matches that are going to get cancelled. Forget everything.. but what will goras think of us?? :shock:

Suppiah
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2569
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: -
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Suppiah » 07 Feb 2010 14:46

Masaru wrote:Cross over: Not all who sneak across are terrorists

Get rid of all the fencing and patrols! May be the 10/12 who slipped in on 26/11 were also mesmerized by B'wood and took it a bit too far by making the plot of some 3rd rate movie real. :evil:


Let us try to be clever here.

If these kids are innocent film-buffs as they are made out to be, they should be let go asap. That is not just the right thing to do - it is also cheaper instead of feeding them at our cost and they get filled with hatred for India instead of admiration for our bollywood-crap.

How can such kids easily cross the defended (hopefully?) border should be learnt from them by being nice to them - actually there is a Akbar-Birbal (or is it TenaliRama) tale of almost exact nature where a lady crosses the moat and wall because of her baby...how the king deals with that is a lesson..

Suppiah
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2569
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: -
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Suppiah » 07 Feb 2010 15:01

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... vwz1VzsOnw

Karachi violence blow to Pakistan economy

svenkat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4725
Joined: 19 May 2009 17:23

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby svenkat » 07 Feb 2010 15:50

CRS,
I appreciate your genuineness.But I have one question for you.Yet you have chosen US over India finding america more attractive.Here is a nation(India) where hard core nationalists seem to be found more in its 'deadliest adversary' than in the homeland.I consider Anglo Saxon barbarians to be more venomous than Chinese though the Dragon comes very close.

What is the mettle of such a nation?Why should it be respected?Is it any wonder the way we are treated? Is the response of our govt any surprising.Why do you care for a venomous snake called Tully? why do english speaking indians care for such vipers who find ready audience in DDM?

Is that not a sign of our weakness?

Yet,with all her faultsI am not despondent about India.(FWIW,as a mango abdul thinking about 'India').I am a mango abdul doing a SDRE job in India.Every day,I see a lot of pettiness,superficiality,inefficiency,listlessness in my life.

Yet I am immensely optimistic.Inspite of everything,India is awakened and rising.Inspite of Tamilnadu vs Karnataka,Brahmin-non-brahmin,(the last two are political 'issues' in my neck of the woods,for 'some')the skilled knowledge worker vs the low skill worker(the only meaningful real difference of our age) I can see the goodness of our people outweighs the negatives.

In a friendly spirit, do not be so pessimistic.Yes,we have infinite diversity.There are real issues.We have ancient histories.There are issues of sacarcities,environment,sanitation etc.But this is not 1050 AD.

Pakistan will be crushed not because of Brahmins,Rajputs,Hindutvavadis,peshwas,Sikh warriors,cyber jehadis but by the imperative of Time.India will triumph not because of dilli billis but by a billion people (however disunited) who are aspiring to lead lives of purpose and dignity.They cannot be hemmed or boxed in by pakjabi barbarians or their Anglo-Saxon patrons.My two naya paise.

OT:In fact,I share Mav's perception whether US NRIs will be able to bear the culture shock when they return.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23913
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby SSridhar » 07 Feb 2010 16:04

pgbhat wrote:Islam, cricket and Pakistan ---- Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi

From the above article,
Their disposition towards the Taliban is shaped by religious considerations and group interest. Some support is due to religious-denominational considerations, i.e. Wahabi/Salafi, Deobandi and Ahle-Hadith Islamic tradition, and partly due to ideological and political considerations.

It is interesting to note that some religious groups belonging to the Barelvi Islamic tradition condemn the violent activities of the Taliban but share their perception of an Islamic order on orthodox lines and that the US, India and Israel are out to destroy Muslims. {This includes the Sufis too. In essence, all Islamic sects in Pakistan are together in it when it comes to India. That is why one has to laugh when one hears that there is a 'peace constituency in Pakistan that needs to be addressed' or that 'people-to-people contact will further peace' etc.}

The Islamic groups and parties hardly take into account the threat of the Taliban to Pakistan as a state. They are not convinced by the assertion that no state can allow a group to impose its political and religious choices on others by force and Pakistan cannot allow some groups to challenge its writ and create a state within a state. The notion of the nation-state is peripheral to their worldview and they talk of the transnational concept of an Islamic Ummah or brotherhood. {Exactly. That's why that all Pakistanis who eventually belong to one or the other of the above Islamic groupings, want to use violent jihad against the kufr too.}

archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6821
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby archan » 07 Feb 2010 16:07

Suppiah wrote:http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gndztXDlP66OuEuIehvwz1VzsOnw

Karachi violence blow to Pakistan economy

Noticed the following from the story:
"I am father of four surviving on daily wages," said 31-year-old Mohammad Asghar, who said for four days he could not go out to work in his western Orangi neighbourhood, where many of the killings were concentrated.

"My pocket feeds my children. When it is empty my kids go hungry," he said.

Even upper middle classes in most Indian towns now a days cannot *think* of having four children and be able to pay for their expenses and get them half decent education. But the pure people seem to have a mentality that Allah will take care of the kids. Well then why complain, let Him take care of them. You are on frikkin' daily wages man, and 4 kids!

PS: I know about the Indian counterparts so please no == as this is TSP thread and it will get OT pretty quick.

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3566
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Paul » 07 Feb 2010 16:09

I hope MEA, MOD and INC/BJP play their roles in checking MMS and protecting Indian interests.


Fast changing events in Afghania post withdrawal will bring MMS to his senses (Is he doing this because he sees PRC looming threat as highest priority with Pak as manageable for time being???). In the meantime the indian awam will pay the price for putting economic development as higher priority above national security....reminds me of the story in Mahabharat where people of a village sacrifice one person to a danav as hafta so that other may live on (until Bheema puts a stop to it).

IKG had also shown signs of coming to reality by the time he was leaving office (BTW....he personally played a role in asking NS to desist from passing MANPADS to the terrorists in valley). While IKG may be seen in WKK crowd with his paki friends, I do not see him amongst the prominent advocates advocating uni-concessions to Pakistan (I could be wrong here). There is a difference here...is he playing this role in his personal capacity only?

One key difference this time in the pressure to talk to Pakistan is that we do not see other Indian lefties/libs like Vinod Mehta (of "ABV: Pick up the line and talk to Mush" fame) Frontline/JNU profs - Kamal Chinoy etc. pressuring GOI to talk to Pakistan. Is it becuz' they know that the anger against Pakistan due 26/11 is reaching point of no return?

Is this cause of hope.... :((

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3566
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Paul » 07 Feb 2010 16:37

Paul wrote:Is he doing this because he sees PRC looming threat as highest priority with Pak as manageable for time being???



Harbans wrote:Wrt China we saw no buckling wrt HH's visit to ArP and movement of MKI squadrons and infrastructural and divisional level boosts in forward areas.

So it's not really that GOI is all complete soft, thats why i was exploring the possibility that MMS's dialogue with Pakistan could be a very top heavy initiative, that despite rumblings from some career diplomats and seasoned Paki observers, MMS is going forward with this.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7038
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby JE Menon » 07 Feb 2010 17:02

Masaru, where did you get those maps from? Pls post link. Haven't seen them before, and story related as well...


shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Feb 2010 17:09

Dilbu wrote:
3) Declare war

Hmm.. Let us see. It would be darn inconvenient for Indian public if SRK film releases are affected by a war. What about economy ZOMG?? I am not even getting started about the important T20 matches that are going to get cancelled. Forget everything.. but what will goras think of us?? :shock:

In fact this reply, minus the humor is connected up with the other question I asked a few pages ago - that got one reply from Nachiket.

I quote

nachiket wrote:
shiv wrote:You know people if you look at India as a human and the GoI as the brain (or mind) of the human, what would you rate Pakistan's action against India as, and what rating do you think the GoI gives the injury the nation receives from Paquiland. Please expand with reasoning if possible.

Let me give you a rating scale:
I) Dangerous/Grave injury threatening loss of life?
II) Grievous injury that threatens loss of a limb or eye?
III) Severe injury like a deep cut that can lead to severe blood loss or reduced function of a body part?
IV) Trivial injury that can be sustained indefinitely?
V) Bee stings?
VI) Mosquito bite?


I would rate it as
III) Severe injury like a deep cut that can lead to severe blood loss or reduced function of a body part?

I am talking about 26/11 style attacks.

If operation Gibraltar or Kargil had succeeded even to some extent it would have been classified as II.

I) would only happen if we lost a major battle and (consequently) a large amount of land in open (conventional) warfare which is unlikely.

GoI seems to treat most terrorist attacks as IV, V or VI. Only Mumbai blasts, Kaluchak, arliament and 26/11 would rate III requiring a reaction.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23913
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby SSridhar » 07 Feb 2010 17:14

Radio Pakistan scraps Pashto service of VoA due to Taliban threat
The Radio Pakistan management has decided to scrap the agreement with the Voice of America (VOA) to broadcast its pushto-language radio programmes after receiving “direct threats” for airing “American propaganda”. The VOA launched its Pushto-language radio station, ‘Deeva Radio’, last year, targeting audience in the Tribal Areas and the NWFP. Deeva Radio is aimed at offering the locals with a chance to speak out against the Taliban in the region. Radio Pakistan aired Deeva Radio programmes during its prime time slot – 7pm to 10pm. A senior producer at Radio Pakistan Peshawar told Daily Times, “The Taliban and other anti-American groups in the country threatened to bomb the Radio Pakistan Peshawar premises if the station continued airing Deeva Radio programmes”. He said, “The Radio Pakistan central management ended its agreement with the VOA in light of the terror threats and political pressure, as many local listeners went to the (print) media to force the government to cancel the agreement.” “The programme content was polemic at best, which added fuel to the local anti-American sentiment. It also created the impression that the programmes were being recorded at the Peshawar station, which has never been the case,” the producer added.

Kanson
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3010
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 21:00

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Kanson » 07 Feb 2010 17:18

SSridhar wrote:
It is interesting to note that some religious groups belonging to the Barelvi Islamic tradition condemn the violent activities of the Taliban but share their perception of an Islamic order on orthodox lines and that the US, India and Israel are out to destroy Muslims. {This includes the Sufis too. In essence, all Islamic sects in Pakistan are together in it when it comes to India. That is why one has to laugh when one hears that there is a 'peace constituency in Pakistan that needs to be addressed' or that 'people-to-people contact will further peace' etc.}


I have some thoughts. Islamic mullahs(Not many of them) even in India exihibit similar characters. May be, i think, it is the way for them to reach prominence. Saying things which ought to be said. Reg the people to people contact: We know Muslim League before 1947 doesnt have great following even in current Pakistan. Just as we Indians are forced to choose our representatives sometimes as like selecting bad among the worst, i guess people who are living in Pakistan may be choosing a different destiny if they were given different choices. However, I have to admit i dont know much abt their society. But this video gives some inspiration (earlier posted by Gagan).
http://www.vidzshare.net/play.php?vid=1130
I do know what GP used to say often in TV program: Even Pak is a terrorist. I'm asking is that correct or over simplication ? Is there a hope ?

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6881
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby habal » 07 Feb 2010 17:18

Pranav wrote:
Masaru wrote:Best solution would be to send this guy along with his idol back to their ancestral land. That will spare people world over lots of headache.


Info on Sharukh's father and uncle: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 541604.cms

It is said they were involved in the Quit India movement in Peshawar ... which probably means they were linked to Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan. Shahrukh needs to be educated about the treatment meted out to Bacha Khan by the Pakis ... maybe he would then not gush over their "wonderful neighbourliness".


shah rukh is related to Gama pehalwan who is his mother's cousin. He is not a pashtun ethnic.

Gama Pehalwan was a punjabi gujjar.

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3566
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby Paul » 07 Feb 2010 17:30

His mother reportedly received patronage/was related to INA hero Shahnawaz Khan who was a Janjua Rajput. His father may have been a Pakhtun

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23913
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby SSridhar » 07 Feb 2010 17:32

We know that the Pakistan Day military parade has been cancelled for security reasons. There is disappointment for a different reason for somebody.
The cancellation of the Pakistan Day military parade of March 23rd next in the federal capital has dashed the lifelong dream of President Asif Ali Zardari, who was keen to take salute from the armed forces on the Jinnah Avenue.


Zardari might have sensed that this year was the last possible opportunity for him. The military top brass, OTOH, might have been immensely pleased that they didn't have to salute their Supreme Commander. What a country !

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23913
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby SSridhar » 07 Feb 2010 17:34

IIRC, Shahrukhiya was (is ?) a city between Samarkand and Ferghana, roughly midway in between and was coveted by different rulers at different times until Babur firmly seized it before he came to India.

shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2201
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby shravan » 07 Feb 2010 17:44

PPP leader dead in violence at polling station

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) Azad Kashmir leader, Captian (rtd) Tariq, was shot dead and one other injured in a firing incident Sunday.

The confrontation between the workers of Muslim Conference and PPP Azad Kashmir started at the polling station in Islamabad after the allegations of fake voting were imposed against each other.

PPP leader Israr Shah said that PPP Azad Kashmir worker has been shot dead. SAMAA

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6881
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Postby habal » 07 Feb 2010 17:48

Paul wrote:His mother reportedly received patronage/was related to INA hero Shahnawaz Khan who was a Janjua Rajput. His father may have been a Pakhtun


saw that on wiki. But how can the mother's cousin be a gujjar and mother be something else.

in subcontinent once people get famous their ancestory suddenly develops links to the better-off and other forward groups in that neighbourhood. His father too was just a trader in Peshawar corraled into some ghetto meant just for such traders.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 003_pg7_25


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests