BSF, CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 16 Feb 2010 22:59

Commandos, para military force to guard hockey World Cup
..................

Home Ministry sources said 200 commandos especially skilled in sharp shooting will be manning the high-rise buildings around the venue -- National Stadium -- near the famous India Gate.

The sources said as many as 10 companies of central para military forces (1,000 personnel) will be deployed in the city during the February 28-March 13 tournament.

....................

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Avinash R » 20 Feb 2010 22:34

BSF gets 131 new Assistant Commandants
...Speaking on the occasion, Minister of State for Home Affairs Ajay Maken said the BSF will raise 16 new battalions (around 16,000 personnel) and 13 battalions will be used as reserve for providing rest and relief to the deployed troops. These will be raised in the next five years...

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Ankit Desai » 21 Feb 2010 02:02

atreya wrote:Eastern Frontier Rifles? Heard of em for the first time


The EFR is a paramilitary force of the West Bengal police.

Silda attack: 'Masked' EFR IG blames police


"I am puzzled why he did it. Even (West Bengal) Director General of Police Bhupinder Singh held a media meet at Silda with his face totally visible,"
a senior police officer said.

Ankit

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sumshyam » 21 Feb 2010 21:07

Govt approves induction of 30,000 more personnel for BSF

NEW DELHI: In its efforts to augment the strength of the Border Security Force (BSF), the Centre has approved raising of 29 battalions, comprising around 30,000 personnel, for the country's frontier guarding force.

Of the 29 battalions, 16 would be deployed in riverine areas along Indo-Bangladesh border while 13 would serve as additional reserve battalions to be deployed on a rotational basis to ensure sufficient training, rest and recuperation for the personnel.

Minister of state for home Ajay Maken said the new battalions would go a long way in increasing the efficiency and service conditions of BSF personnel.

Attending the Passing-Out-Parade of a fresh batch of 129 BSF officers at Takenpur in Madhya Pradesh on Saturay, Maken said the exercise had began late last year. Two battalions have already been raised and seven are to be raised during 2010-2011.

With a view to enhance infrastructure to support the additional battalions, three frontier head quarters and seven sector head quarters will be created for control and command purposes, he said.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 23 Feb 2010 23:28

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 022&mode=1

This can be a debatable topic. I feel "jawan" is the term for "soldier". So MAYBE paramilitary and state armed policemen should also be called jawan

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 23 Feb 2010 23:39

Not at all. The Central Police Orgs have been quick to jump on to the bandwagon, and try to usurp the militarys style (Note that officially they are known as Central Police Orgs, and yet they call themselves para military). State police also are calling themselves jawans, misusing camoflage clothing (They were not authorized to use it until 2002-2004, when an army general allowed police in JK to use it).

Stolen valour is not valour, but just fraud.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 24 Feb 2010 17:06

ASPuar wrote:(Note that officially they are known as Central Police Orgs, and yet they call themselves para military).

www.dictionary.com says...
noting or pertaining to an organization operating as, in place of, or as a supplement to a regular military force: a paramilitary police unit.

CPOs like BSF, CRPF, RPF and CISF have been involved in very many activities which a traditional law&order police force generally do not get their hands on. And they have never said that they are THE military. Secondly, I feel the state and central governments have the right to decide what uniform their police forces can wear. They need not to consult the Army authorities to decide on that.

In Bangalore, I have seen even security guards happily wearing the Army camouflage pattern, and happily put up all sorts of accoutrements (including five-point stars) on their shoulder straps. The army who is pontificating about which term to be used, have done zilch to deal with these private security agencies who just use what ever they consider as a uniform (be it army camouflage, or olive green). That being the case, how can they decide (or allow) what uniforms the state's or central police forces should wear?

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 24 Feb 2010 21:18

Stolen valour is not valour, but just fraud.


Pretty strong statement! But too strong. They are not "stealing" valour, in any manner. Are you suggesting that para military soldiers are less than Army men in terms of courage and sacrifice?
Coming back to the point, "jawan" means a soldier. And a para military man IS a soldier, is he not?Our paramilitaries/CPOs are involved in CI operations, they have shed their blood for the country and I think they deserve to be called jawans!

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 11 Mar 2010 05:32

India has only 129 cops per 1 lakh people
NEW DELHI: Less than a month after the terror attack on popular German Bakery in Pune, the government on Wednesday admitted that shortage of manpower had made it difficult to safeguard "all public places" in the country.

Although the shortage of manpower is a country-wide phenomenon, Maharashtra, which witnessed the latest terror attack despite having intelligence alert, presented a dismal picture with the highest number of police vacancies (49,252) in the country.

Stating that suspected main targets in Pune were put under police protection, minister of state for home affairs Ajay Maken said, "However, due to obvious limitations of manpower, it was not possible to bring all public places under security cover."

In his written reply to a question in Rajya Sabha, he while referring to the German Bakery incident said: "The terrorists succeeded in attacking a soft target". The minister also mentioned that the incident took place there despite having intelligence inputs. He said: "There were intelligence inputs to indicate that certain places in Pune and some other cities in India were on the target list of terrorist outfits. Accordingly, on October 9 last year as a preventive step, the State Police had issued detailed security guidelines to major commercial establishments including the German Bakery".

Though the government had, time and again, stated about shortage of manpower while referring to existing vacancies of over 2.67 lakh of police personnel across the country, the admission of difficulties in bringing all public places under police security highlights a different aspect of the problem.

It also raises questions on the necessity of sparing nearly one lakh police personnel across the country for security to VVIPs at the cost of security to common people/public places.

Of late, the home ministry has streamlined the security cover of VIPs by weeding out some protectees — having no threats — from the list of protected persons. But similar exercises have not been done in states for years, forcing a significant chunk of cops to be deployed for protecting a number of VIPs who avail such cover as a mere status symbol.

The situation of manpower shortage has become so critical over the years that the country has merely 129 cops per one lakh of population as against the United Nations norm of 220 police personnel per one lakh of population.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 13 Mar 2010 21:32

Does the CISF also have a "SF" division?

Saw a trim CISF "commando" at IGI with spanking new BPJ, handsfree earpiece and what looked like a Uzi( very small gun with virtually no barell and a grip almost at the end of the "barrel".

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 13 Mar 2010 22:38

Sachin wrote:I feel the state and central governments have the right to decide what uniform their police forces can wear. They need not to consult the Army authorities to decide on that.


1) The question is not a philosophical one, or one of opinion, but instead, a matter of the well settled law of the land, enshrined in statute and precedent, (under section 171 of the Indian Penal Code), and the Army is statutorily to be consulted when the question of state and central agencies wearing army pattern uniforms is evoked.

2) The fact that the government saw fit to make a law, is an indication of the mind of the government (read, the lawmakers, and not the professional heads of various government agencies, who may think whatever they like, but should not ignore the law!). The law makes it clear that when a uniform denoting a particular class of government servant is sought to be worn by someone, it is an offence (and precedent has established, to denote that consent must be sought, as it was, for wearing of camo by CPOs only, in KASHMIR only, in the early 2000s).

C) The army is an agency of the government, as are all other government agencies, so it is incorrect to say "The government need not consult the army". It is more a question of "one arm of the government must consult the other". The CRPF needs to consult the army, and so does the BSF, and so does Bihar Police, and anyone else who wants to use army pattern uniforms. It is an interdepartmental matter.

Sachin wrote:In Bangalore, I have seen even security guards happily wearing the Army camouflage pattern, and happily put up all sorts of accoutrements (including five-point stars) on their shoulder straps. The army who is pontificating about which term to be used, have done zilch to deal with these private security agencies who just use what ever they consider as a uniform (be it army camouflage, or olive green). That being the case, how can they decide (or allow) what uniforms the state's or central police forces should wear?


This matter has also come to the attention of the government, and once again, the appropriate (Central) law has been framed for the purpose of dealing with it. Section 21 of ‘The Private Security Agencies (Regulation) Act, 2005’ reads as follows :

Section 21. Penalty for unauthorised use of certain uniforms

If any private security guard or supervisor wears the uniform of the Army, Air Force, Navy or any other armed forces of the Union or Police or any dress having the appearance or bearing any of the distinctive marks of that uniform, he and the proprietor of the private security agency shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year or with fine which may extend to five thousand rupees, or with both.


Stiff penalties indeed. But, it is not a question of the "army pontificating". The Army is NOT a law enforcement agency, and has no authority to arrest offenders of this nature. The appropriate agency to deal with law enforcement is... THE POLICE (which tells you why it is so difficult to get the police to stop wearing army uniforms. After all, theyre the only ones allowed to enforce the law)! And as such, if you are seeing people wearing army pattern uniforms in an unauthorised manner, it is because the law is not being enforced. However, I happen to know that many cantt authorities have asked military police to notify civil police if they see such infringements. That is the extent of their powers in the matter. As to the rest, and how much action the police takes on these complaints, I dont know.

I hope this has thrown some light on the matter.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 13 Mar 2010 23:06

atreya wrote:
Pretty strong statement! But too strong.


Youre right. Id like to take it back.

atreya wrote:Are you suggesting that para military soldiers are less than Army men in terms of courage and sacrifice?


This is something that I think is subjective.

Coming back to the point, "jawan" means a soldier. And a para military man IS a soldier, is he not?Our paramilitaries/CPOs are involved in CI operations, they have shed their blood for the country and I think they deserve to be called jawans!


I think youre right.


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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 16 Mar 2010 18:50

sum wrote:Does the CISF also have a "SF" division?

Saw a trim CISF "commando" at IGI with spanking new BPJ, handsfree earpiece and what looked like a Uzi( very small gun with virtually no barell and a grip almost at the end of the "barrel".


Yes. The "Black Panther" is a special forces division of the CISF. Though I did not know they were equipped with the Uzi.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 062601.cms
Last edited by atreya on 16 Mar 2010 19:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 19:00

In re my post above, about army uniforms, I completely forgot about section 140 of the IPC.

140. Wearing garb or carrying token used by soldier, sailor or airman

Whoever, not being a soldier, 75[sailor or airman], in the Military, 76[Naval or Air] service of the 53[Government of India], wears any garb or carries any token resembling any garb or token used by such a soldier, 75[sailor or airman] with the intention that it may be believed that he is such a soldier,75[sailor or airman], shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three months, or with fine which may extend to five hundred rupees, or with both.


My mistake. Though 171 is equally applicable.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 19:01

atreya wrote:
sum wrote:Does the CISF also have a "SF" division?

Saw a trim CISF "commando" at IGI with spanking new BPJ, handsfree earpiece and what looked like a Uzi( very small gun with virtually no barell and a grip almost at the end of the "barrel".


Yes. The "Black Panther" is a special forces division of the CISF. Though I did not know they were equipped with the Uzi


They arent. It is more likely to be a Czech Skorpion SMG.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 16 Mar 2010 20:35

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100316/8 ... kille.html

RIP, brave soul! :(
Hope the pigs are hunted down soon! :evil:

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 16 Mar 2010 21:19

ASPuar wrote:They arent. It is more likely to be a Czech Skorpion SMG.

Paur-saab,

I did check for Skorpion in google images and it certainly wasn't that.

Damn my poor knowledge of latest small arms ( and how they look) :x

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 17 Mar 2010 04:03

BSF Downplays Withdrawal of Outpost
The BSF today downplayed the withdrawal of an observation post from Muktapur area in Meghalaya as part of a "re-arranging border strategy".

"We are just re-arranging our border strategies. We have not withdrawn from the area ... It was just a re-alignment," BSF Special DG (East) RK Medhekar said, a day after the observation post at Noljuri was withdrawn amidst reports of BDR build-up across the border.

"We are observing the situation and we are very much on the ground. These are local issues and they crop up everywhere," the official said.

The two border forces exchanged firing for over three hours last Sunday. It was the heaviest firing out of the four that have taken place since February 4.

Medhekar maintained that there was no "question of being soft or strict" and that the approach of the BSF was "different at different times".

"We are a mature big force and we are not at any disadvantage," the Special DG, who will be visiting the border area tomorrow, said after calling on Governor R S Mooshahary.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 17 Mar 2010 09:53

sum wrote:Paur-saab,

I did check for Skorpion in google images and it certainly wasn't that.

Damn my poor knowledge of latest small arms ( and how they look) :x


Sum-ji, you intrigue me. If it is small, with almost no barrel, and has a handle near the end, it can only be one of a very few weapons. The skorpion is like that, but youve ruled it out. Perhaps its an MP-5K or a Heckler Koch PDW.

Did it, perchance look like this? (Ignore the buttstock, that can be folded up).

Image.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby rohitvats » 17 Mar 2010 12:36

ASPuar wrote:Sum-ji, you intrigue me. If it is small, with almost no barrel, and has a handle near the end, it can only be one of a very few weapons. The skorpion is like that, but youve ruled it out. Perhaps its an MP-5K or a Heckler Koch PDW.


OK. Let me add to the confusion here. I've also seen CISF personnel with a small SMG and it was definetly the MP-5K. Saw it from close quarters and immediately checked the net for the description. So, the weapon is most likely to be MP-5K in sumji's case.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 17 Mar 2010 13:32

Thanks for the info. It may very well have been the MP-5K and did look similar to the MP-5K pics.

However, unless my eyes deceived me, it didnt have a grip at the barrel like in the pic above but the piece sloping back towards the trigger from the barrel ( similar to the PS-90) though was certainly not a PS-90. :-?

Edited:
Ok. Most probably it was this MP-5K:
Image

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 17 Mar 2010 14:17

Yup, thats the MP5K-PDW. The version you're showing is an earlier variant.

Ive seen those with MARCOS and NSG. Wasnt aware that CISF was also using them. Impressive hardware. I wish we were making those in India as standard eqpt for our security troops instead of importing.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 17 Mar 2010 19:00

Seeing the pictures posted above (of the MP5K PDW), it seems pretty difficult to hold and/or fire the weapon if the butt is folded. You can barely get you hands around the grip. Is it really a problem?
Note: My experience of holding any kind of firearm is ZERO, so pardon me if this question seems foolish. :oops:

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 17 Mar 2010 22:38

The 9x19 parabellum is a low recoil cartridge. It can be fired in semi/full auto without too much trouble. There is a certain amount of barrel rise, which can be corrected with the use of the forward grip. There are glock pistol models which are fully auto which also use 9x19, and can be fired accurately in short bursts.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 18 Mar 2010 05:30

cross post
BSF Buys Thermal Detectors
India’s Border Security Force (BSF) and Paramilitary Forces will soon be equipped with 340 hand-held cooled thermal detector sights, in order to curb illicit arms and ammunition trade that occurs in the sensitive border areas of India.

India has placed an order to the tune of $10 million with the Indo-Israeli joint venture Alpha-ITL Electro-Optics for the supply of these high-tech hand-held cooled thermal detector sights, called “Drushti”. These detectors will be used by various commanders of the BSF and other paramilitary organisations to track movements across the border areas.

“Drushti” is a compact and light-weight night vision binocular for long-range ground observation and can scan an area within the range of 2-8 kilometres. The development of “Drushti” by the Indo-Israeli joint venture was achieved with significant contribution and expertise from both the sides. While the Indian side provided the optics, printed circuit boards, power system, video cards, software, eye piece assembly and outer casing, the Israeli firm Semi-Conductor Devices has contributed with the crucial ‘Coolant Dewar Detector.’

As for the salient features of “Drushti”, it weighs less than 3 kilograms, has a more powerful detector (320X256 InSb FPA) than the present one used by the Indian forces and has a reasonable price tag of only $26000. As for the current monocular devices used by the Indian forces, they have weak detectors, weigh 5 kilograms and came with a price tag of $40000, besides straining the eyes. The “Drushti” thermal imager can perform versatile roles with modifications, like operating as a tank sight, or as an aerial sight for helicopters.

Since India needs these crucial devices to secure border areas, the Indian government will be floating another tender to acquire 750 more thermal imagers. As of now, the “Drushti” thermal imagers are being tested by the BSF soldiers at night to scan in the hilly border areas.

$10 Million/340 EQUALS $29,411.change A POP!!!! The article claims it costs around $26k a pop.. Difference of ~3,411 which roughly equals $1.2million (kickbacks??)

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Airavat » 18 Mar 2010 06:00

IAF wants BSF to take up air ops against Naxals

The air force has assigned four Russian Mi-17 helicopters for the logistics support of the state and central police forces engaged in anti-Naxal operations. A top IAF officer told HT, “We are hamstrung by inadequate resources. We have diverted helicopters to support anti-Naxal operations at the cost of training and air maintenance operations. It’s about time that the BSF steps into our shoes.” Seventeen of the IAF’s 200 Mi-17s are deployed in various UN peace missions.

The BSF’s air wing consists of six Mi-17 helicopters. The choppers are being used for surveillance and transporting troops in Naxal-affected states. The air force considers the number to be adequate for supporting security forces fighting the Naxals.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 18 Mar 2010 09:50

The IAF is making a blunder here. Soon BSF will be raising its own airforce, on the basis of this go ahead!

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby rohitvats » 18 Mar 2010 09:54

ASPuar wrote:The IAF is making a blunder here. Soon BSF will be raising its own airforce, on the basis of this go ahead!


Sir, you cannot expect a force to "step-in" the shoes of IAF without resources? How can BSF do what IAF is doing without additional MI-17? If more resources are required to tackle the Maoists and if we need to keep the Armed Forces out of the conflict, then the Para-Military will have to be equipped with the necessary assets.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 18 Mar 2010 10:16

rohitvats wrote:
ASPuar wrote:The IAF is making a blunder here. Soon BSF will be raising its own airforce, on the basis of this go ahead!


Sir, you cannot expect a force to "step-in" the shoes of IAF without resources? How can BSF do what IAF is doing without additional MI-17? If more resources are required to tackle the Maoists and if we need to keep the Armed Forces out of the conflict, then the Para-Military will have to be equipped with the necessary assets.


Haha, even before the BSF has asked for anything, youre ahead of the pack, eh?

When did I say that I expect the BSF to do anything with any XX amount of equipment?

Im saying that the IAF should not relinquish this role, or it will find its role being usurped by the CPO's (and along with that, status, power, influence, policymaking ability, etc etc)!

The cardinal rule of government is indispensability. Once youre dispensable, youre of no use to anyone. The IAF should have asked for additional squadrons to be raised, on the basis of its additional anti naxal role. These faujis really dont know how to think like a bureaucrat! :)

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 18 Mar 2010 11:49

ASPuar wrote:(under section 171 of the Indian Penal Code), and the Army is statutorily to be consulted when the question of state and central agencies wearing army pattern uniforms is evoked

Sir, a few questions. Please find Sec 171. IPC here. It reads..
171. Wearing garb or carrying token used by public servant with fraudulent intent.-- Whoever, not belonging to a certain class of public servants, wears any garb or carries any token resembling any garb or token used by that class of public servants, with the intention that it may be believed, or with the knowledge that it is likely to be believed, that he belongs to that class of public servants, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description, for a term which may extend to three months, or with fine which may extend to two hundred rupees, or with both

For this section to hold, the Army (or any other agency) needs to prove that the Police have a fraudulent intention. The police can easily put up a counter claim that they are wearing Army style camoflouge pattern because it is required for their operational duties as well. Also the police officers are not asking for the regular "Army Uniform" type dress, which may give an impression that the officer is from the Army. Where as a camouflage pattern would just indicate that the wearer is from some armed unit (be it police, army etc.) They are asking for a type of dress which suits their operational needs. This section how ever is relevant to private security agencies (or criminal imposters), who are not a government establishment and also do not undertake any jobs which the police or other military organisations undertake.

Sec 140 reads...
Whoever, not being a soldier, 1[sailor or airman] in the Military, 2[Naval or Air] service of the 3[Government of India], wears any garb or carries any token resembling any garb or token used by such a soldier, 1[sailor or airman] with the intention that it may be believed that he is such a soldier

The army here again would have to prove that the camouflage pattern is exclusively for Army personnel only. I do understand that if it is the case of the golden rank insignias, army cap badges, medal ribbons etc. this legal provision would hold good. Also here the Army needs to prove (the government officials, or court) that the police have a intention to claim that they are army men.

However, I happen to know that many cantt authorities have asked military police to notify civil police if they see such infringements.

If what I hear from folks at Bangalore is true, any one can go and buy regular army camouflage pattern clothing from areas in Shivaji Nagar/Russel Market areas. Any army accoutrement is available there. The running joke was that even regular army chaps go and get stuff from there, as the quality is better (than the army issued ones). Yes, looks like both Military Police and Civil Police is not keen on following it up.

Any ways my last post on this topic :). It would be interesting again if this leads to a public debate or a court case. Or else it would remain as a case with the common people are not very keen to watch out for.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 18 Mar 2010 12:05

Sachin, just wanted to provide a short gist of the legal provisions in place (apologies if you already knew all about them, but they are for everyone else to see also). The question of Camo being garb used by armed forces is already a settled one, and the CPO's did ask for permission for use in Kashmir, as they were required to. However, permission was given only for Kashmir, but the camo is now used everywhere.

Other police forces of course, use camo indiscriminately.

Agree with you on other stuff. The section of the PSA Regulation act which makes it illegal for security agencies to use army clothing is particularly telling as to how widespread the practice is.

But the Army itself is not pontificating, it has no power in the matter. Though the law exists, the army is not the enforcer of laws

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby RayC » 18 Mar 2010 12:39

Even civilians are wearing camouflage uniform and driving Marutis with OG colour.

Now, who is from the Army, who is a civilian, who is paramilitary and who are terrorists, one does not know. All are wearing the same camouflage uniform!

A real, what is known as, a Buggers' Muddle!!

Civilians should not wear it. CPO could have the LTTE type of camouflage uniform etc so that there is differentiation. Indeed, today everyone is a 'jawan'. So, you do not know from which organisation that person is!

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 18 Mar 2010 12:51

^^
BSF was indeed using the tigerstripe pattern of camo, but I think with quality of production issues, many of them also buy from the open market, leading to a hodge podge of uniform types. The army has changed its camo to the new OFB only manufactured type, recently, and it is being used by (almost) all soldiers now.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby RayC » 18 Mar 2010 12:56

OFB manufactured uniform fades out in three months!

When I visited the unit recently, I found that the boys were buying uniform cloth of private textile companies from the Unit Canteen Contractor (baniyah as he is known).

I myself bought a Jap cap from the baniyah and it is still a new as a whistle.

The Army has taken up the issue with the GOI many a time. Nothing happened.

There is a nexus, but my conclusions are circumstantial and so I will refrain from airing my views!

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby rohitvats » 18 Mar 2010 16:14

ASPuar wrote: Haha, even before the BSF has asked for anything, youre ahead of the pack, eh?

When did I say that I expect the BSF to do anything with any XX amount of equipment?

Im saying that the IAF should not relinquish this role, or it will find its role being usurped by the CPO's (and along with that, status, power, influence, policymaking ability, etc etc)!

The cardinal rule of government is indispensability. Once youre dispensable, youre of no use to anyone. The IAF should have asked for additional squadrons to be raised, on the basis of its additional anti naxal role. These faujis really dont know how to think like a bureaucrat! :)


I hope you were serious while making the above argument. IAF not wanting to be part of anti-maoist operations and wanting CPO to take charge makes them dispensible? Similary, IA withdrawing from CI Ops in J&K and NE will make them dispensible? What, is the main role of IAF? And do you see that been threatened by CPO with couple of more helicopters, or even a Squadron worth? How does that compare with overall strength and re-eminence of IAF?

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sunny y » 18 Mar 2010 17:02

http://i40.tinypic.com/2w3cr3c.jpg

To Gurus..I appreciate if anyone can help me with this....

I have a query....We have seen countless photos of IA soldiers wearing different camos but I have never been able to quite understand the reason behind it.

I mean if you look at the above pic, the first soldier is wearing new camo, the camo the soldier next to him is wearing is similiar to the one they used to wear earlier. In this case one can understand that such kind of replacement cannot be done overnight. Those who have not been provided the new camo continue to wear the old one (Please pardon me if this sound too naive, I don't know how this distribution thing works.)

But now look at the cargos the last soldier is wearing. To my knowledge such a camo has never been in use with IA. It is completely diferent. Then how on earth did he get that ?? I mean it is not something you can buy according to your wishes.

RayC sir....any thoughts...

Thanks
Last edited by Jagan on 18 Mar 2010 17:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby RayC » 18 Mar 2010 17:20

The official issue is the OFB product.

There is a life cycle procedure for personnel equipment for PBOR. They are issued two sets and I think the life is for three years (I forget the time limit).

The camouflage uniform fades in no time and so one cannot go around looking shabby.

One cannot buy OFB uniform. Therefore, the other option is through the open market.

Hence, it is a maze of different patterns in camouflage.

In fact, since officers are not issued uniform, we have to get the cloth from the open market and get it stitched. One of my relatives went to Singapore and bought me the Singapore Army camouflage and that was totally different. In fact, light green and with more disruptive pattern. Nobody seemed to mind! :oops:

There is the underwear (barkhawala type) which is a govt issue and a small towel issued amongst the govt issue clothing for PBOR. Nobody uses them. The PBOR buy their Jockey and towels from the CSD and even though it has been taken up that these are waste to the exchequer and something better be given or discontinued, no one is concerned!!
Last edited by RayC on 18 Mar 2010 17:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Jagan » 18 Mar 2010 17:22

ASPuar wrote:Haha, even before the BSF has asked for anything, youre ahead of the pack, eh?

When did I say that I expect the BSF to do anything with any XX amount of equipment?

Im saying that the IAF should not relinquish this role, or it will find its role being usurped by the CPO's (and along with that, status, power, influence, policymaking ability, etc etc)!


ASP, the BSF always had an 'airwing' but it was pretty much relegated to transportation of high and medium officials.

as far as the Mi-17s were concerned, the last lot sat grounded at safdarjung because there were no pilots to fly them. some of them were taken onlease by the IAF I think!. The fact that they couldnt muster enough resources to operate these six choppers fully is a comforting factor that despite their budget, they wont pose a threat by raising a paramilitary airforce :)

There was an excellent article in mail today on these choppers. I had posted a picture sometime back.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Jagan » 18 Mar 2010 17:23

RayC wrote:

There is a life cycle procedure for personnel equipment for PBOR. They are issued two sets and I think the life is for three years (I forget the time limit).

The camouflage uniform fades in no time and so one cannot go around looking shabby.

One cannot buy OFB uniform. Therefore, the other option is through the open market.

:oops:



Still, time to time, even OFB products will make it to the common market - Unissued Uniforms, helmets, the whole lot. I dont know if it is via black market channels but it happens.


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