Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

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abhishek_sharma
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Fawning over Pak military, US undermines New Delhi talks

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 583122.cms
India may be wasting its time and energy engaging Pakistan’s civilian set-up in the upcoming talks on February 25, going by the way Washington is primarily dealing with the country’s military and intelligence leadership in Rawalpindi and leaving Islamabad’s democratically-elected government in the lurch over sensitive parleys on terrorism.

...

But it has become glaringly evident this past week when Islamabad was left largely clueless about a CIA-ISI move to engage the Taliban in a move dressed up as the ''capture'' of Taliban No.2, Mullah Birather, in a joint operation.

While Washington was agog with the story of Birather’s ''capture'' and its consequences for Taliban and the US war in Afghanistan, Pakistan’s civilian leadership was caught flatfooted by the developments. The country’s interior minister Rehman Malik revealed the government’s ignorance when he insisted there had been no such operation, even as analysts in Washington were taking stock of the development.

''If the New York Times gives information, it is not a divine truth, it can be wrong. We have joint intelligence sharing and no joint investigation, nor joint raids,'' Malik told reporters about the story first reported by the US paper. ''We are a sovereign state and hence will not allow anybody to come and do any operation. And we will not allow that. So this (report) is propaganda,'' he added.

But US officials, while declining to go into details of the alleged ''capture'' citing ''sensitive intelligence matters,'' appeared pleased with the breakthrough they hope will lead to a convenient exit from Afghanistan. Birather’s ''capture'' was credited by some to Pakistan’s army chief Pervez Ashraf Kiyani’s desire to ensure a key role of his country in the any attempt to mediate with the Taliban.

...

Others are suggesting that the military-ISI combine has ''sacrificed'' Birather to the Americans to win Washington’s trust and secure for itself a role in Afghanistan. ''I think their realization of what was happening within their own country and the threat that it posed also played a big part in changing their actions,'' White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said cryptically, indicating the Pakistanis had brought in Birather to reflect a change in policy.

Still others believe US agencies had cornered Birather in Karachi and the joint operation story is just a cover-up to save Pakistan from embarrassment, while some are of the view that the US and/or Pakistan have engaged Birather for a long time and the capture story was drummed up after news of the secret parlays leaked.

No matter which explanation is correct, it shows Pakistan's civilian dispensation in poor light. In fact, locked in a confrontation with the country’s judiciary, the civilian quartet of President Zardari, Prime Minister Gilani, foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and interior minister Malik – dubbed ''4 Idiots'' in Indian circles – have ceded foreign policy to the country’s pugnacious military. This raises the question as to how seriously India should take the upcoming foreign secretary level talks on February 25, an engagement that is credited to Washington’s persuasive hand.

...

Meanwhile, Birather’s presence in Karachi has also focused attention on the gradual dispersal of extremist elements from the region’s badlands, now under the scrutiny of drones and other US ''eyes in the sky,'' to Pakistan’s urban centers, home to the India-centric jihadi crowd. Last week, the much-wanted extremist Hakimullah Mehsud was reported to have died in Multan in Southern Punjab, where he was reportedly brought for treatment for injuries suffered in a drone attack.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by JwalaMukhi »

shaardula wrote:
shiv wrote: I am coming around to the view that there is no "us" and "them" except in the viewpoints expressed here and by some misguided elements outside BRF. Paquistanis and Paquistan need to be accepted as part of India, like renegade Maoists or a recalcitrant political leader who is whipping up hate towards other Indians such as Biharis. Paquistanis cannot be punished by overwhelming force any more than the Shiv Sena or Maoists. That land is one day going to come under the control of a political dispensation that resembles greater India. Only militant Islam is stopping that from happening - trying to relive its glory days of 1947.
it is one thing theorize and postulate how the ultimate goal is to revert to akbar's times, quite another to bear the burden on burgeoning populations.
Ah! Aha. So there is also another parallel theory that focuses not just on reverting back to akbar's times. That probably would focus on vijayanagara times. No, no, not in conventional sense of how vijayanagara was a great empire. But about how the benign islam within the rank and file of vijayanagar empire (army), waited for opportunistic time to revert back to militant islam, and became turncoats to bring down the vijayanagara empire. As soon as militant islam of bahamani kingdom reared its head, the benign islam succumbed to it eh? The old king of vijayanagara empire was severed and his head paraded around, before burning the empire down for weeks altogether.

P.S: It is no way to be construed as endoresement of akbar's time. It only relatively seems less cruel, because of previous and post akbar times.
Last edited by JwalaMukhi on 17 Feb 2010 12:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by pgbhat »

abhishek_sharma's ToI link wrote: Taliban No.2, Mullah Birather, in a joint operation.

While Washington was agog with the story of Birather’s ''capture'' and .........
...........................................................................................

Birather’s ''capture'' was credited by some to Pakistan’s army chief Pervez Ashraf Kiyani’s
...

Others are suggesting that the military-ISI combine has ''sacrificed'' Birather to the ...............
.................. while some are of the view that the US and/or Pakistan have engaged Birather for a long time and the capture story was drummed up after news of the secret parlays leaked.
...
Meanwhile, Birather’s presence in Karachi.......................
ToI lurking in BENIS? :lol:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by ArmenT »

For those ornithologists who were missing the paki National Bird...
US drone attack kills three in Pakistan
Missiles fired by a suspected US drone aircraft have killed at least three militants in north-west Pakistan, security officials say.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Joseph »

SSridhar wrote:Sherry Rehman's uvacaha in The Hindu
The Indian leadership should strengthen its Prime Minister’s hand to fashion such a grand strategic bargain for South Asia. {Of course, all advice flows freely to india. Pakistan has absolutely no committments in anything} For, without one, dialogue will go round and round in vilified circles, becoming a low-intensity space for conflict prevention. We need to go beyond crisis management. We need to shift into conflict resolution and business momentum mode. But for all that to happen, we need to give dialogue a chance.
The Pakistani Leadership should work on cohesion & unity among its own feuding political factions and gain control of the ISI & the Military before making such a suggestion to India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by arun »

ArmenT wrote:For those ornithologists who were missing the paki National Bird...

US drone attack kills three in Pakistan {Snip}
That’s the 114th visit paid by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s national bird since the visits started in June (?) 2004 per the records kept by the Long War Journal ( Clicky ) .

While a fair bit of bleating emanating from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is evident, I have yet to come across any instance where either the Military led Government or latterly the Civilian led Government has made any physical attempt to stop any one of these 114 visits of the Islamic Republic’s national bird while they were in Pakistani airspace. All that seems to be happening is sporadic bleating after the fact delivered with tightly crossed legs that the Islamic Republic has been violated.

So is there even a single instance where the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has lived up to their self proclaimed “martial spirit” and physically attempted to stop any of these 114 drone attacks while the drones where in Pakistani airspace ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by RamaP »

CRamS wrote:SSridhar:

The chutzpah and arrogance os Sherry is truly breathtaking. Their sense of entitlement is mind boggling. How does one negotiate with these pukes. Disgusting. I saw another video snippet on Toilet intevewing some TSP female minister who was causually dismissive of Mumbai as a "small incident" while TSP faces terrorism everyday. Bloody b#$%^&ds. Do they actually put up a show dismissing attacks like Mumbai to rub salt on India's wounds or do they actually believe their own delusions?
A lot of TSPians especially the Pakjabis elite consider themselves as the true successors of the Mughal dynasty and spend most of their time day dreaming about neo mughal empire extending from Kabul to Gangetic plains. Their arrogance is especially more visible when a self righteous English speaking Indian journalist or T.V anchor interviews them from a "South Asia" perspective.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by RamaP »

Just like a cat that has nine lives, TSP always appears to be on the verge of disaster. But just when we think that the day of reckoning has arrived for TSP, suddenly a miracle happens and TSP is able to turn the tables. Post 26/11, TSP was cornered in the most miserable way. By March of 2009, TTP consolidated its control over SWAT and moved steadily into Buner. International media went nuts over TTP's march into Islamabad and rest of Punjab. Securing TSP's nukes became Uncle's buzzword. Pakjab was slowly coming under the influence of the TTP. Then, TSPA started the Rah-e-whatever ops and TTP vanished into thin air. And look at the situation nowadays. TSP elite are merrily dancing because of following reasons: The London conference went perfectly according to their plans.The good Taliban aka TSP sympathisers will be in power in Kabul in a year or so. Talks with India have resumed or in other words, the anger threshold of GOI (if there were any at the first place), in the event of another terror attack,has been raised. So the TSPA can unleash hell inside Indian territory before GOI wakes up. And even then, there will be only some temporary verbal bluster from our ministers and nothing else. Mullah brother is in custody so that ensures more American daana paani for the TSP elite for some time.

I think that we must reduce our efforts in interpreting a chanakian strategy in every move that GOI w.r.t TSP. Because every time we do so, we only find ourselves later staring at another chaman ka tamasha or S-E-S. So one can only hope that one day our government would find some spine and would look at the stark reality rather than living in a fantasy land.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Hari Seldon »

^Good points, there

So we're ending up playing a defensive game. No upsides w.r.t. TSP, only the risk of occasional downsides like S-e-s.

The Siachen deal broke down at the last minute ue to institutional intervention. It worked, that time. No guarantee it'll work next time. Which is why we have to perpetually wary of where the next creepy creeping concessionism by the current dispensation will take us.

Our only hope, as always remains in TSPA's proven track record of tactical brilliance, in their uncanny ability to miscalculate so badly, even GOI is forced awake into doing the common-sensical thing.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by sum »

The Siachen deal broke down at the last minute ue to institutional intervention. It worked, that time. No guarantee it'll work next time. Which is why we have to perpetually wary of where the next creepy creeping concessionism by the current dispensation will take us.
This to me is the scariest part of this MMS govt..
( Better not to comment on our Pak policy since it is nothing more than a farce)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

RamaP wrote:I think that we must reduce our efforts in interpreting a chanakian strategy in every move that GOI w.r.t TSP.
If only one or two of Chanakian strategies from 1947 had borne fruit, we would have a different geopolitical environment around us. Anyone who says the Indian move is chanakian should be asked about the results of the countless earlier chanakian moves. There should be a limit to deluding ourselves, even for dhimmis like us.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Philip »

"The proud Paki and his love for Bombay...".This reminds me about the reaction of Oz when the Bali blasts took place,moaning about what "they" had done to "our Bali"! There is one aspect ,little understood or mentioned by the great thinkers of the nation,that there is a great nostalgia,a lot of it subconcious, in Pakiland for India.AS the saying goes that "love is akin to hate",so many Pakis denounce India simply because they see in India a nation which they yearn for and cannot hope for given their internal contadictions and foundation so shakily based upon religious zealotry.It is why the clarion call for Kashmir,the outrage that the IPL does not want Paki cricketers,consumes Pakis.Thus the "need" for India is the "fix" that the junkies of Pak desperately require.They want to be stroked and caressed by Indians to "feel good" and overcome their inferiority complex.

The GOI however,has not learnt anything despite the decades of Paki terror perpetrated by their uncontrollable uniformed tribe and their obfuscation,evasion and hesitation in turning over a "new leaf" in its relationship with India.It,the TSP, cannot unshackle itself from hatred of India as the raison-d'etre of the Paki state as without the bogeyman of Hindoostan,Jinnah's motheaten and now severly burnt entity cannot hold together.The solution therefore is to completely ignore Pak,reduce dilomatic levels to the barest minimum-for the sake of rescuing straying fishermen and cattle,and allow the carnivorous Paki state to either change its spots or consume itself in a cannibalistic orgy of ethnic frenzy.During this "feast of the beast",India must take care to see that the spillover of the bloodshed in Pakdoes not contaminate our soil and people.An accelerated sustained modernisation and expansion of the armed forces,strategic deterrent to deal with both Pak and China thereby keeping our powder dry,should keep us in fine fettle to deal with any misadventure from the Paki side a la Gen.Musha-rat.

The state of Pakistan is an anachronism,it is on life support,being kept alive by US money and material,assisted by the Chinese and Saudis.Our endeavour is to see that despite the outiside interference,Pak collapses and breaks up into smaller entities which will be of a far lesser threat to India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Altair »

Signs of impending War

Al-Qaeda chief delivers a warning
By Syed Saleem Shahzad
ISLAMABAD - Asia Times Online has received a message from top guerrilla commander Ilyas Kashmiri, whose 313 Brigade is an operational arm of al-Qaeda. The message arrived on Monday morning, shortly after the deadly weekend bombing of the German Bakery in the western Indian city of Pune. The message does not specifically claim responsibility for the bombing, but implies the Brigade's involvement.
Image

The text of the emailed message reads, in rough translation:

“We warned the international community to play their role in getting the Kashmiris their right of self-determination and preventing India from committing brutalities in Kashmir, especially in Badipuar, raping the women and behaving inhumanly with Muslim prisoners.

“We warn the international community not to send their people to the 2010 Hockey World Cup, IPL [Indian Premier League - a cricket competition involving international players] and Commonwealth Games [to be held in Delhi later this year]. Nor should their people visit India - if they do, they will be responsible for the consequences.

"We, the mujahideen of 313 Brigade, vow to continue attacks all across India until the Indian Army leaves Kashmir and gives the Kashmiris their right of self-determination. We assure the Muslims of the subcontinent that we will never forget the massacre of the Muslims in Gujarat and the demolition of Babri Masjid [a Muslim mosque destroyed by Hindu militants in 1992]. The entire Muslim community is one body and we will take revenge for all injustices and tyranny. We again warn the Indian government to compensate for all its injustices, otherwise they will see our next action.

"From 313 Brigade"

The bombing and Kashmiri's warning come as Washington tries to bring India and Pakistan together to work as allies in fighting the "war on terror". The intention seems to be to reignite conflict between the two countries, diverting Pakistan’s attention from Afghanistan and the Pakistani tribal areas and preventing India playing a strategic role.

The Pune bombing killed nine people, including two foreigners, and injured 57. It came a day after India and Pakistan agreed to foreign-secretary-level talks in New Delhi on February 25.

Typically, 313 Brigade does not claim responsibilty for its actions, which are said to include attacks on foreigners in India and Afghanistan and the Mumbai carnage of last November. The Brigade has also been linked to the so-called "Chicago Conspiracy" to massacre Indian military officers, attack the Indian nuclear arsenal, and attack the cartoonists whose anti-Muslim illustrations were published by a Danish newspaper.

It is unprecedented that 313 Brigade should send a message to a news outlet. However, Asia Times Online has previously been in contact with Kashmiri, and interviewed him last October. The interview, conducted in the Pakistani tribal agency of South Waziristan, was arranged by Kashmiri, primarily to discount rumors that he had been killed in a US drone attack. (See Al-Qaeda's guerrilla chief lays out strategy.)

The Indian government said on Monday that there would be no knee-jerk reaction to the Pune bombing and that the talks with Pakistan would go ahead. If more attacks are carried out in India, however, the tension between the countries would soar, and the US-led "war on terror" would be an early casualty.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief.

(Copyright 2009 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
Posting in full as the content of this page might change
Last edited by Altair on 17 Feb 2010 16:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

India cannot be deterred by the HuJI threat: P. Chidambaram
Ilyas Kashmir cannot dictate our course of action. We cannot be deterred and we are not deterred by what he says,” he told reporters here {in Jammu}.
I would have preferred PC not uttering Ilyas Kashmiri's name.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Altair »

I wonder what more does MMS and Maino want pakistanis to do ,Would they wake up if these terrorists come into their homes and set them on fire?
Its time to cancel all leaves to the Armed forces and put them on high alert. Start mobilizing. This will go down to hell.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by krishnan »

So what happened to the lone pig we caught after the mumbai attack.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Altair »

26/11 mastermind Saeed free to talk in Pak
New Delhi: Hafiz Muhammed Saeed, leader of the banned charity group Jamaat-ud-Dawah, is supposed to be facing trial in Pakistan and under the restraint of authorities. He is in fact quite free.

India blames Saeed is for masterminding the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai that left at least 166 people dead and hundreds wounded.

Ajmal Kasab, the lone terrorist captured during the terror strike in Mumbai, has allegedly told Indian authorities that Saeed planned every detail of the deadly attack.

Saeed, in an interview to Al Jazeera correspondent Kamal Hyder in Lahore, rejected India’s allegations and denied that he knew Kasab.

"I never saw him [Kasab]. In fact, it was from media in India that I discovered he was a Pakistani national.

How Saeed brainwashed 26/11 terrorists
26/11 plotter Hafiz Saeed invites India for talks
"I have never met Kasab nor have I ever known him and I have said this on many occasions. This is baseless propaganda without an iota of truth."

Saeed claimed India had rejected his offer to have a dialogue on Kashmir.

"I never said no to dialogue - that is propaganda. I have always talked about having open dialogue, but it needs to be productive, it needs to obtain results," Saeed said.

"India has never had a sincere interest in opening dialogue. When they do, it is because of national interest. If India wants to restore confidence in opening dialogue with Pakistan, then India must accept Kashmir as a core dispute."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Sri »

Philip wrote:"The proud Paki and his love for Bombay...".This reminds me about the reaction of Oz when the Bali blasts took place,moaning about what "they" had done to "our Bali"! There is one aspect ,little understood or mentioned by the great thinkers of the nation,that there is a great nostalgia,a lot of it subconcious, in Pakiland for India.AS the saying goes that "love is akin to hate",so many Pakis denounce India simply because they see in India a nation which they yearn for and cannot hope for given their internal contadictions and foundation so shakily based upon religious zealotry.It is why the clarion call for Kashmir,the outrage that the IPL does not want Paki cricketers,consumes Pakis.Thus the "need" for India is the "fix" that the junkies of Pak desperately require.They want to be stroked and caressed by Indians to "feel good" and overcome their inferiority complex.

The GOI however,has not learnt anything despite the decades of Paki terror perpetrated by their uncontrollable uniformed tribe and their obfuscation,evasion and hesitation in turning over a "new leaf" in its relationship with India.It,the TSP, cannot unshackle itself from hatred of India as the raison-d'etre of the Paki state as without the bogeyman of Hindoostan,Jinnah's motheaten and now severly burnt entity cannot hold together.The solution therefore is to completely ignore Pak,reduce dilomatic levels to the barest minimum-for the sake of rescuing straying fishermen and cattle,and allow the carnivorous Paki state to either change its spots or consume itself in a cannibalistic orgy of ethnic frenzy.During this "feast of the beast",India must take care to see that the spillover of the bloodshed in Pakdoes not contaminate our soil and people.An accelerated sustained modernisation and expansion of the armed forces,strategic deterrent to deal with both Pak and China thereby keeping our powder dry,should keep us in fine fettle to deal with any misadventure from the Paki side a la Gen.Musha-rat.

The state of Pakistan is an anachronism,it is on life support,being kept alive by US money and material,assisted by the Chinese and Saudis.Our endeavour is to see that despite the outiside interference,Pak collapses and breaks up into smaller entities which will be of a far lesser threat to India.
Very articulate.

Problem though, is not whether or not we ignore them, or we take offence... the problem I am afraid is uniquely Indian.

This blanket guarantee to any aggressor against us that we will never follow them home. As long as Pakistan / China or any other Government or 'non governmental entity' feels that they can do anything they want in India without Indians following them to the gates of Hell, they will keep coming back.

This is not only the problem of modern ineptness this has been a problem for us for centuries. Likes of Ghauris and Ghazanis kept coming back because they knew NO Indian army will follow them back home. No Indian army will ever do anything to them as long as they returned. We never had the guts then, we don;t have it in us now. Ghauri is a case in point... Fellow was beaten so many times but he kept at it, because he understood our limits, like China and Pakistan now do...

Lets stop complaining. Cos thats what we have done for thousands of years and I am afraid we will keep doing this for another thousand.

Gandhi locked into that psych of ours quite well. Ahimsa I am afraid is not something he taught us he just recognised that trait and used it aptly.

Our misfortune is that we have forgotten even the Gandhigiri thingy....
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by RamaY »

Rudradev wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/world ... intel.html

Seems Rangudu is right. Karzai and the TSPA have been in a race to broker the Americans' exit deal with the Taliban and apparently, as the only widely accepted honest broker, M Baradar was both sides' choice as a lynchpin. The US has made a virtue of necessity by hailing the arrest as a major triumph (and crediting ISI for their "help" with it) but it seems some of their officials- presumably those who were negotiating on the Karzai track and close to a deal- appear to be seething. I wonder if the Pakis, by enforcing a monopoly over Baradar, won't end up scoring a self-goal though. This act certainly undermines their credibility with Taliban groups not wholly owned and operated by the ISI- and therefore reduces their value as a broker of any Taliban-US exit deal.
Applying Chanikyan logic -

Or it could be that Karzai side got Barader on thier side and the arrest is shown as ISI handwork. So that any/all collateral damage is diverted at TSP instead of Afghanistan?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by brihaspati »

I have started referring to TSP as Occupied Western India (OWI) which can be extended to Terrorist Occupied Western India (TOWI). If we have come to the general consensus that it is an entity on life-support from external powers, is a breeding ground and controlled by or dominated by terrorists, whose army and government work to protect or further terrorist interests, that it is on permanent terror alert with no virtual sign of governance - it is basically an "araajaka" "badland" occupied by bands of terrorists. Why not cease to use "state" in connection with it and consider as "occupied lands of India"?

We should also think of drawing new maps which shows how those lands are going to be freed of occupation in a timed sequence - 2020, 2040 etc. Those who are good at maps, can try! :)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by harbans »

This should explain Baraders give away.

Steve Coll explains why Pakistan finally clamped down on Baradar:
Over the last few months, by multiple means, the United States and its allies have been seeking to persuade Pakistan that it can best achieve its legitimate security goals in Afghanistan through political negotiations, rather than through the promotion of endless (and futile) Taliban guerrilla violence—and that the United States will respect and accommodate Pakistan’s agenda in such talks. Pakistan’s support for the Afghan Taliban, especially in recent years, was always best understood as a military lever to promote political accommodations of Pakistan in Kabul.

Baradar, however, has defiantly refused to participate in such political strategies, as he indicated in an e-mail interview he gave to Newsweek last year. The more the Taliban’s leaders enjoying sanctuary in Karachi or Quetta refuse to lash themselves to Pakistani political strategy, the more vulnerable they become to a knock on the door in the middle of the night.
Paki Politics
Q:What about reports that Pakistani intelligence is advising you not to enter into peace talks at this time?
A:The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is independent and sovereign in its decisions and agreements. It is not taking any dictation from any group or government.

Q:Is Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency giving you support or advice?
A:This is venomous propaganda that has no facts behind it.

Q:Do you fear that Pakistan would stop you from using its soil?
A:They have not given us permission to use their land even now.
Mullah Baradar: In His Own Words

It's obvious the Paki's now will get rid of Afghan Talibs who are too independent, so they have a much greater handle in Kabul later.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Dilbu »

If this is a perceived sell out by ISI/TSPA, will there be a blowback from TTP? I hope the local talebs know whom to call if they want some juicy ISI targets.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Rangudu »

Are we in some sort of time warp? Many differences are there fore sure, but I do sense similarities with 2001.

For example, Amritraj is back
Richard Armitage meets COAS

Updated at: 1600 PST, Wednesday, February 17, 2010

RAWALPINDI: Mr Richard Armitage, Former US Deputy Secretary of State, visited General Headquarters and called on Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani today.

The visiting dignitary remained with him for some time :eek: :lol: and discussed matters of mutual interest.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by CRamS »

RamaP wrote:
A lot of TSPians especially the Pakjabis elite consider themselves as the true successors of the Mughal dynasty and spend most of their time day dreaming about neo mughal empire extending from Kabul to Gangetic plains. Their arrogance is especially more visible when a self righteous English speaking Indian journalist or T.V anchor interviews them from a "South Asia" perspective.
Indeed; and I have met quite a few TFTA Pakis express Moghul condescension towards us SDREs. Initially, I used to think it was a sign of their charm (as many elites & WKKs in India still fall for), but very quickly, my BR analytical mind licked in, and realized long time ago, that TFTA TSPians actually believe their delusions. Although today, as India caves in by the minutes, I am not sure they are delusions anymore; they are probably well founded that one day, with enough of those 1000 cuts, they will lord over us SDREs.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by CRamS »

harbans wrote:
Baradar, however, has defiantly refused to participate in such political strategies, as he indicated in an e-mail interview he gave to Newsweek last year. The more the Taliban’s leaders enjoying sanctuary in Karachi or Quetta refuse to lash themselves to Pakistani political strategy, the more vulnerable they become to a knock on the door in the middle of the night.
Its not just Taliban leaders, but anyone with a mass following in "South Asia" that has to fear a a knock on the door in the middle of the night.. The TSPA/ISI has rendered the entire region a virtual police state. That explains why no elite in India say anything or do anything, even justified, that would dent TSP's etch&dee. That explains why Bakara was so scared of even mentioning TSP's involvement in Mumbai. She even argues that India should not accuse her ISI bosses without "solid proof". That explains why Rajdeep and his wife Sagarika have to do an equal equal by bringing in Shiv Sena with LeT. In fact, that explains the entire discourse of the secular cowards in India. That explains even the most absurd cowardly remark by Jyothi Malhotra: "Let the extremists on both sides fight it out at the LoC while the rest of us make love"; yeah right those defending India at the LoC are moral equivalents of LeT. That explains why MMS was so furious that TSP pigs were shunned by IPL (should ISI bump Lalit Modi off, which they surely are trying (witness Z-lecel security for him), it would be embarassing to continue his love fest with Pakis). Business reasons aside, that explains why Sharuk Khan, was quick to express love for his Paki brothers, lest he get a knock on the door in the middle of the night.. The list goes on, alas, it explains why terrorism won't impede the love fest with TSP.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by amdavadi »

Dont you guys know, lone pig we capture speaks marathi, so he cant be paki.He wants to take his case
to international court & GOI will accept his request.Since our international friends & allies be happy with our
stand.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by svinayak »

CRamS wrote:
Indeed; and I have met quite a few TFTA Pakis express Moghul condescension towards us SDREs. Initially, I used to think it was a sign of their charm (as many elites & WKKs in India still fall for), but very quickly, my BR analytical mind licked in, and realized long time ago, that TFTA TSPians actually believe their delusions. Although today, as India caves in by the minutes, I am not sure they are delusions anymore; they are probably well founded that one day, with enough of those 1000 cuts, they will lord over us SDREs.
They will play this game for several centuries. This is known as the ruling class attitude which comes from reading their fake history again and again. Only a big blow to h&D will remove it.
India has to create a long term attitude for a global perspective with bharatiya view point. Only then we will counter this.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by arun »

X Posted. The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s transition from a Military Dictatorship to Civilian rule has in no way impaired the ability and willingness of the Military and ISI to intimidate the media, both print and electronic.

Ashamed of their quisling like behaviour and not wishing to be seen as an “American Poodle” the ISI and Pakistan Military per the BBC has throttled discussion on the arrest of Mullah Abdul Ghani Birader:
[/b]'Muted' Pakistan media response to Taliban arrest [/b]

By M Ilyas Khan
BBC News, Islamabad

The Pakistani media's response to the arrest of top Afghan Taliban military commander Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar has been surprisingly muted. …………….

Analysts say the blackout was because Pakistan's government and the army are wary of being seen as an American poodle. ………………………

Most newspapers on Wednesday morning relegated the story either to the lower half of their front page, or to the back page. ………………….

The only exception was the Dawn newspaper which carried a detailed follow-up of the story …………………..

The electronic media, which has greater outreach in a country like Pakistan with its low literacy rate, totally ignored the news except in their early morning bulletins which broadcast the news quoting the New York Times report.

There was a complete blackout of the story in all the top-of-the-hour bulletins after midday on Tuesday. …………………

Many believe that their muted response is indicative of the extent to which the Pakistani security establishment can influence the media.

The Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), which helped the CIA arrest Mullah Baradar, is widely understood to be well outside the control of the government and is more directly linked with the military.

Analysts say the story was downplayed because it would have raised uncomfortable questions over the military's collaboration with the US ………………

BBC
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by ramana »

So Mullah Barader was trying to become good Taliban (negotiating with Karzai and US in Afghanistan) and TSP handed him over to US (the group that supports the TSP with frozen brains) as bad Taliban.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SBajwa »

that TFTA TSPians actually believe their delusions.
True story!! about 16 years ago a TFTA invited me to his house., his four year old daughter tells his dad in front of me "Yeh Kaafir hamare ghar kyo aaya hai., issse kaho hamein kaafir acche nahi lagte" "Why is this kaafir in my house., tell him that I do not like Kaafirs" and this guy didn't even made a informal apology or anything. The difference is that., If I am in his shoes., I would have apologize right away. That's how they have been raised.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by shyamd »

ramana wrote:So Mullah Barader was trying to become good Taliban (negotiating with Karzai and US in Afghanistan) and TSP handed him over to US (the group that supports the TSP with frozen brains) as bad Taliban.
Ramana, I have a sneaky feeling that Barader is the guy that MI6 had used to get into the inner circle of Mullah Omar.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by harbans »

Bajwa ji, similar incident was narrated by the Late JN Dixit.

There's another factor that may have cropped up after the London conference boost to Paki aspirations in Afghanistan. Barader so far may have been taking a much more independent of Pakistan stance in his negotiations with the Brits or the Americans. It is even possible that he may have been negotiating a much lesser role for Pakistan as Talibs too are aware of Paki interference.

After London and Turkey and US pressure on Paki's doing something about the Afghan Taliban, the ISI guessed a good option is to sacrifice this guy and send a message to Taliban, that they cannot expect to negotiate a more independent stance without Pakistani interference and acknowledgment of 'strategic depth' requirements. That's what this is about. Meanwhile US was happy and across forums including the Chinese-American forum WAB, i notice 'experts' express glee at Pakistan's 'change of heart'. Somehow Americans don't understand Paki perfidy too well.

CRams ji, i agree that people are scared of the ISI and it's reflected in the 'dhimmitude' as you have put it . But the ISI too is a victim of a doctrine that goads them to do what they do. They've not invented the doctrine of the Ghazwa. To solve any problem, ultimately one will have to tackle the root cause and address that. It will have to be done ultimately. Because there are certain doctrinal injunctions in the Koran and Hadith that make it impossible for sections of literal followers of Islam to be at peace with non-muslims.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by svinayak »

SBajwa wrote:
True story!! about 16 years ago a TFTA invited me to his house., his four year old daughter tells his dad in front of me "Yeh Kaafir hamare ghar kyo aaya hai., issse kaho hamein kaafir acche nahi lagte" "Why is this kaafir in my house., tell him that I do not like Kaafirs" and this guy didn't even made a informal apology or anything. The difference is that., If I am in his shoes., I would have apologize right away. That's how they have been raised.
Long time ago neighbors was a Paki family. The boy says to me that he does not like idolaters and he will shoot the idolaters. The parents ignore this statement.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Rudradev »

Rangudu wrote:Are we in some sort of time warp? Many differences are there fore sure, but I do sense similarities with 2001.

For example, Amritraj is back
Richard Armitage meets COAS

Updated at: 1600 PST, Wednesday, February 17, 2010

RAWALPINDI: Mr Richard Armitage, Former US Deputy Secretary of State, visited General Headquarters and called on Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani today.

The visiting dignitary remained with him for some time :eek: :lol: and discussed matters of mutual interest.
GUBO humor apart, this is not a good sign at all.

Armitage, ex-CIA, has considerable trust-equity with the ISI and if I remember correctly, part of his role in 2001 was to try and mediate a negotiated settlement with the Taliban via the ISI as broker. Recall the visits of DG-ISI Mahmoud Ahmed to Kandahar, to "persuade Mullah Omar to give up OBL to the Americans". A little later (possibly as a quid-pro-quo promised by Armitage?) we saw the Kunduz swinelift, which America is still paying the price for allowing.

If Armitage is back in Slumbad it could indicate that the US (particularly after the Baradar arrest) is now seriously pursuing negotiations with the ISI as chief intermediary... maybe it will even bite on Kayani's offer of brokering a deal with the Haqqani group.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by shravan »

Pakistan poised for more arrests after capture of Mullah Baradar
Officials said Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and his unnamed comrades had disclosed information about their operations which would help unravel their organisation and lead to more arrests.

Mullah Baradar, who is second only to its supreme leader Mullah Omar, was arrested along with several other militant figures ten days ago, as they were establishing a new Taliban command and training centre in Pakistan's commercial capital.

Senior diplomatic sources said the movement's leadership was targeted as it moved from its base in Quetta, Balochistan, to Karachi.
.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by ramana »

Am moving the posts that review US India ties to the Strat leadership thread.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by abhishek_sharma »

What the capture of Mullah Baradar says about Pakistan's intentions

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2 ... intentions
More recently, Pakistani intelligence officers have helped Afghan Taliban commanders outwit their American adversaries, even as ISI benefited from American material support. Indeed, Mullah Baradar was previously captured by Afghan forces in November 2001 -- then released after ISI intervention, according to the New York Times.

What has changed the Pakistani military leadership's calculus to the point that ISI has now helped capture the Afghan Taliban's No. 2 leader? The optimist's answer is, in a word, the Pakistani Taliban. Pakistan sponsored the Taliban when it was a vehicle for Pakistani influence in Afghanistan's Pashtun heartland. But the spillover from the Taliban's resurgence next door helped create a monster in the form of the Pakistani Taliban, whose suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks increasingly have targeted the institutions of the Pakistani state and its supreme defender: the Pakistani armed forces.

In this reading, the encouragement provided to the Pakistani Taliban by the successes of the Afghan Taliban has changed Pakistani military leaders' calculations about the strategic advantage they gain from their Afghan alliance. The Taliban's resurgence in Afghanistan has emboldened a Pakistani Taliban that wants to weaken and overthrow the Pakistani state and the privileged position of the Pakistani armed forces within it. This logic, and intensified American pressure on Pakistan's military high command, has led it to cooperate with the Americans against the Afghan Taliban leadership in a hitherto unprecedented way.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by abhishek_sharma »

http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2010/0 ... o-baradar/
First, given the fact that he was arrested in Karachi—and not Quetta, Peshawar or the tribal areas—it could well have been a CIA operation that led to his capture. Since it would be impolitic to present it as such, a convenient cover story of a joint operation becomes necessary. The fact that US operatives are interrogating Mr Baradar while he is in Pakistani custody supports this argument. If indeed it was a US operation that netted him, it would mean that the Obama administration has escalated covert operations in Pakistani territory to another level.
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