Indian Autos Thread

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Y. Kanan
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Y. Kanan »

vipins wrote:Tata Motors testing hydrogen-powered commercial vehicles
Tata Motors European Technical Centre plc (TMETC), a 100 per cent subsidiary of Tata Motors, has developed a range of hydrogen fuel cell-powered commercial vehicles and is currently undertaking trial runs of these buses and light trucks.
There was also news about Tata and ISRO joining expertise to develop hydrogen fueled vehicles,wonder what happened to it?
I'm still perplexed by auto manufacturers pushing hydrogen. They're all doing it - but anybody who understands the basic science behind hydrogen can tell you it's a non-starter for mass transportation.

Hydrogen is not a fuel. You don't extract hydrogen from the earth and burn it like natural gas or oil. In fact, hydrogen can only be created by burning natural gas or performing electrolysis on water. Hydrogen is actually an energy storage medium, like a battery. Just as a battery must be charged with electricity, hydrogen must be "charged" (ie: created) by expending energy.

If you make hydrogren using electrolysis, the process is only 20% efficient (ie: you must expend 80W of electricity for every 20W of hydrogen created). It makes more sense to use that same electricity to charge a battery, a process which is typically about 95% efficient.

If you make hydrogen by burning natural gas, the process is only 25% efficient (ie: you must burn 75kW of natural gas for every 25W of hydrogen). It makes more sense to simply power the car with natural gas to begin with!

Also, hydrogen is extremely difficult and lossy to transport, and poses all sorts of problems for vehicle design, and many other practical issues with fuel cells too numerous to go into here.

Anything you can do with hydrogen, you can do cheaper and more efficiently with natural gas or electricity. This is why we already have natural gas and battery powered cars all over the world, but no mass-production hydrogen cars despite all the billions in gov't subsidies to automakers worldwide.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Neshant »

i don't get a good feeling about hydrogen either.

Tata should not put too waste too much money on it.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

I see prius-mki type hybrids as the future for next few decades. and lowering of
speed limits in developed countries to 55mph with no grace margin.

CNG is a non starter in most places due to lack of filling stations - in blr the attempt
to get autos on CNG was a dismal failure due to only a few bharat petro stations
having it and long lines of autos.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Nayak »

Got my Swift with the new K-series engine. Man, it rocks. The engine is super refined, I cannot even make out if the ignition is on. The performance is superb and overtaking is fun. Atleast I dont have to do a five year planning to overtake the slow lumbering idiots as with my Alto.

The automatic climate control is the tops. I set the temperature and it silently cools the cabin down to the desired temperature. I know that I paid the same amount of a sedan for a hatchback but I am glad that it is the car I am gonna stick on to for a long time.

Spent time yesterday in JC Road getting VKool and seat covers. Now there is no heat from the sun and the glare from oncoming cars in night has reduced substantially. I was hesitant to spend 7k on vkool but it turned out to be a good one.

Not everything is hunky dory, got my first dent and scratch when coming back when a biker hit me on the right, brushed my door and scooted off, before I could even react. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Aw hell, I decided not to bother about scratches and dents, gonna be a part and parcel of the maddening traffic of Bangalore.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by pgbhat »

^ Congrats Nayak, Please do post some pics of your car if possible. :D
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Rahul M »

Singha wrote:I see prius-mki type hybrids as the future for next few decades. and lowering of
speed limits in developed countries to 55mph with no grace margin.

CNG is a non starter in most places due to lack of filling stations - in blr the attempt
to get autos on CNG was a dismal failure due to only a few bharat petro stations
having it and long lines of autos.
kolkata has moved completely to CNG autos. after the teething problems and the customary strikes by unions it's a smooth ride so far. I've talked to a few and they say that the economy is very good compared to petrol ones.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by manish »

Nayak wrote:Got my Swift with the new K-series engine.
Good Nayak! I see you finally went in for the Swift itself then. Congratulations and drive safe.

I see that your car has Climate Control - guess that makes your car a ZXI variant? Then its even better as the car probably came shod with better wheels and tyres, which are otherwise a slight concern area with skinny economy oriented ones that the lower variants are equipped with. They enhance the already sporty look of the car as an added bonus.
Last edited by manish on 22 Feb 2010 15:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by manish »

Sri wrote:Here it is guys... Ford Figo... Had a good test drive....
There's a feast lined up for people out to buy small cars over the next 12 months or so.

Ford Figo - expected to start at 4L for base 1.2 petrol and around 4.7L for base 1.4 D - March
VW Polo - 4.3L onwards for the base 1.2l petrol + 1.6l petrol + Diesel option - March (?)
Toyota Etios - Hatchback aimed squarely against the Ritz/Swift combine, Sedan aimed at DZire/Manza - December

These will signal the willingness and intent on the part of the Big Boys to finally move in on the territory hitherto dominated by the Marutis, Hyundais and Tatas of the world. Loads of quality options finally for the Indian small car buying junta and that too at prices that are far more sensible than the 7-8L that Honda demands for its Jazz.

It's gonna be interesting but it surely won't be easy for the new players!
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

someone posted spy pics of etios sedan and hatchback being driven by japanese engineers in bangalore univ campus - not too far from bidadi factory.

but imo these two will get nowhere against the new competition.

figo, beat and honda small car all look superior in styling to etios, and the vw polo also looks superior.

the etios sedan goes up against the popular fiesta, vw polo sedan, the low cost model of city intro'ed recently....its a tough sell with those cheap looking seats. the style is poor.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Chinmayanand »

Image
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

sweet. is it available now in india and for what price?
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Vipul »

The Baby Ninja(250 CC). Available at approx 3 lacs.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by nachiket »

Rahul M wrote:
Singha wrote:I see prius-mki type hybrids as the future for next few decades. and lowering of
speed limits in developed countries to 55mph with no grace margin.

CNG is a non starter in most places due to lack of filling stations - in blr the attempt
to get autos on CNG was a dismal failure due to only a few bharat petro stations
having it and long lines of autos.
kolkata has moved completely to CNG autos. after the teething problems and the customary strikes by unions it's a smooth ride so far. I've talked to a few and they say that the economy is very good compared to petrol ones.
CNG autos are very popular in Mumbai as well. The last time I was there was July 2008 and by then most if not all the new Autos on the road were CNG powered. The petrol autos were nearly all old and rickety. It seems like more about half the Auto owners decided at the same time to sell their petrol autos and by CNG powered ones. I'm sure that by now petrol autos are on the verge of disappearing in Mumbai. If it can be done in Mumbai and Kolkata I don't see why it failed in Blr.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by manish »

nachiket wrote: CNG autos are very popular in Mumbai as well. The last time I was there was July 2008 and by then most if not all the new Autos on the road were CNG powered. The petrol autos were nearly all old and rickety. It seems like more about half the Auto owners decided at the same time to sell their petrol autos and by CNG powered ones. I'm sure that by now petrol autos are on the verge of disappearing in Mumbai. If it can be done in Mumbai and Kolkata I don't see why it failed in Blr.
BLR has LPG.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by HarishV »

BLR has LPG.
And yet when they negotiate rates with you they say "Saaar, price of Petrol has gone up Saaaar!" :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by nachiket »

HarishV wrote:
BLR has LPG.
And yet when they negotiate rates with you they say "Saaar, price of Petrol has gone up Saaaar!" :rotfl:
I'll never get used to this idea of negotiating with autos and cabbies. In Mumbai, you only have to pay what the tariff card says corresponding to the fare meter. Its high time other cities in the country adopted this system.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by manish »

HarishV wrote:
BLR has LPG.
And yet when they negotiate rates with you they say "Saaar, price of Petrol has gone up Saaaar!" :rotfl:
True. Funny part is how the fares never come down with the cuts in prices!

One a more interesting note, the prices of Auto LPG fluctuate far more than those of Petrol/Diesel. I think the frequency was twice a month or so in 2008 when I last checked. There is some sort of mark-to-market for Auto LPG unlike the rest of our fossil fuels on a more regular basis.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by HarishV »

Nayak wrote:Got my Swift with the new K-series engine. Man, it rocks.
The 1.2 vs the 1.3 L. As a proud Swift owner with the down-graded Esteem Engine, I'm slightly jealous but somehow not too swayed by the 1.2L.
Nayak wrote:Spent time yesterday in JC Road getting VKool and seat covers. Now there is no heat from the sun and the glare from oncoming cars in night has reduced substantially. I was hesitant to spend 7k on vkool but it turned out to be a good one.
I got some cool ferrari-red stripes put on my white Swift. It is probably one of its kind. :mrgreen:
Not everything is hunky dory, got my first dent and scratch when coming back when a biker hit me on the right, brushed my door and scooted off, before I could even react. :cry: :cry: :cry:
Ah, well, somethings aren't in your control. Now thou shalt drive without much worry. It is sad, but quite relieving as well..

Congratulations - from one proud Swift owner to another. Drive safe!

I'm in love with the new Polo, and it seems decently priced as well. Perhaps one lakh over what would be optimum, but definitely not as bad as the Jazz.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by HarishV »

Here is the Polo :

Volkswagen Polo Price in India (Petrol Engine 1.2L 75BHP) – All Prices are in Indian Rupee (INR)
Trendline: 4,34,000/-
Comfortline: 4,83,800/-
Highline: 5,72,000/-

VW Polo Diesel variant Prices (1.2L TDI, 75HP)
Trendline: 5,32,000/-
Comfortline: 5,81,800/-
Highline: 6,70,000/-


I am dissapointed - Not sure the 1.6L is being offered. But it would probably cost the moon for a hatch anyway!
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Sachin »

nachiket wrote:I'll never get used to this idea of negotiating with autos and cabbies. In Mumbai, you only have to pay what the tariff card says corresponding to the fare meter. Its high time other cities in the country adopted this system.
It is not the case of "adoption", it is the case of "attitude". Yes, one of the best cab rides I have had was in Mumbai. As you said, they put on the meter, and at the end of the journey check up the tarrif card and then collect the money and leave. Looks like in Mumbai the passengers and the cab drivers have the correct attitude, and no one has time to haggle on the price.

Compare this with the "Silicon Valley" of India, Namma Bengaluru. Here also the rules are the same. Auto rickshaws have to use the fare metre. But they dont do it, and looks like for quite some time (may be 10-20 years) the Traffic Police/RTO have allowed them to behave in this manner. Now this is kind of "instituionalised" in Bengaluru that Auto rickshaw drivers can fleece the passengers. The people who take the rickshaw also knows that they will be over charged, but will grin and suffer. Same is the case with the other big metro in the South - Chennai. Here there is also a story that at one time majority of the auto rickshaws were owned by policemen. So there was no point in giving a police complaint either.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by SwamyG »

India's Top Car Maker Looks to Africa.

I like the strategy of Tata Motors :mrgreen:
"We're expanding in our 16 markets outside of India," said Abhay Deshpande, Tata's deputy general manager, in charge of vehicle integration with the Nano. "The Middle East, Africa and southern Asia are all very strong." When every other car manufacturer is drooling over the Chinese market, Mr. Deshpande says they're expanding in Africa instead.
Tata also just launched in Nigeria and Tanzania. By focusing on growth outside the traditional markets of Europe, Asia and North America, Tata wants to build brand allegiance in these areas before they become mainstream.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Jay »

prad wrote:
durgesh wrote:Hyundai Genesis : The poor man's S Class :lol:

actually, ghe Genesis costs around 35K in the US. it's a rip-off. if i wanted to spend 35K for a car, why would i buy a Hyundai. I can get the best model of Accord there is, for that price and probably even have some leftover savings. nobody will buy a hyundai that's priced more than 25-30K.
Genesis is the best bet when compared against boring and bloated stuff from Toyota and Honda. Hyundai might face some resistance against Acura/Lexus but not against Toyota/Honda. Those days are going away from the time last sonata/santa fe/tuscon came. The new generation sonata excels over Accord in every category including looks and in Bay area which is Toyota's territory it beat Camry in initial sales estimates in some regions. I have checked Hyundai's products against Toyota/Honda and frankly I would buy the latest Sonata and save some moola over accord/camry/malibu. Just my opinion.....
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Neela »

I do not understand the oiropeans. 8 years ago, they all equated Samsung with cheap, Asian , no QA product. 2010, they all clamour for Samsung.
A year ago, a colleague of mine laughed at me when I considered Hyundai. People never learn.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by AnimeshP »

Tata Motors Display Nano Electric Vehicle (EV) at Geneva
Tata Motors have displayed the electric version of the Nano christened the Nano EV at the ongoing 80th Geneva Motor show.

The Nano EV joins the ever increasing portfolio of Tata’s electric cars which also includes the Tata Indica Vista EV. The Nano EV will offer the praticality of a real car with enough intrior room to seat four people in comfort.

The Nano EV will come with super polymer lithium ion batteries, similar to the Indica Vista EV, which provide superior energy density compared to conventional batteries. The acceleration from 0-60 kmph will be under 10 seconds and the Nano EV will have a range of 160 kms between recharges.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Ameet »

Tata toasts recovery at Jaguar Land Rover

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 063153.ece

Jaguar Land Rover provided evidence of the recovery in global car markets yesterday when it reported a 60 per cent increase in sales for last month.

The luxury British marques, part of India’s Tata Motors, sold 17,197 cars around the world in February.

Although the sales growth at the start of the year reflects the depressed markets of early 2009 — cumulative sales for the past ten months were down by 16 per cent — Land Rover sales were up 62 per cent at 13,905 in February with Jaguar sales for the month 55 per cent higher at 3,292.

A spokesman for the company said: “This is the sixth consecutive month of improvement for Land Rover.”

Land Rover sales were up 86 per cent in France and 162 per cent higher in Turkey. In emerging markets, sales in China doubled, while in Brazil they increased 75 per cent. Sales in Korea were 87 per cent better and volumes in South Africa rose by 165 per cent.

In the more mature domestic and North American markets for Land Rover, sales were 46 per cent and 18 per cent higher, respectively.

The Jaguar XF, the sports car, the price of which starts at £29,900, has become much more popular in the UK, selling 992 units over the past ten months, compared with 258 in the previous 12-month period.

Jaguar Land Rover recently reported its first quarterly profit since its acquisition by Tata for £1.25 billion in the summer of 2008 from Ford. In the three months from October to December, it reported profits of £55 million. In the previous quarter it had losses of £60 million.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by pgbhat »

manish
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by manish »

Cars going up in flames is actually not such a rare event. I have personally witnessed a brand new Hyundai i10 going up in flames. Just yesterday a friend was describing how he and his father witnessed a Skoda Octavia catch fire in Delhi last week. I have heard/read about everything ranging from Indicas to Omnis to Honda Citys catching fire due to various reasons.

It is just that the stupid media has an opportunity to sensationalize the news here due to the Nano being involved. Others don't get reported at all.

May be it was a short circuit in this case. It is definitely a bad thing to have happened, but certainly not unheard of in vehicles.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by arun »

Exports of automobiles are doing well.

A total of 1.645 million cars have been exported during the 11 months period ended February 2010:

Auto exports up 16 per cent in Apr-Feb FY10
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by James »

arun wrote:Exports of automobiles are doing well.

A total of 1.645 million cars have been exported during the 11 months period ended February 2010:

Auto exports up 16 per cent in Apr-Feb FY10

The units figure of 1.645 million is unlikely to comprised of only cars considering that the domestic industry size itself is approx. 2 million units and exports are far lesser than the domestic sales. 1.645 million units are most likely to include all autos including two wheelers as well.

Notwithstanding this, auto exports are definitely doing well, in particular companies like Hyundai and Ford. In the case of Hyundai, almost 50% of production in India is exported.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by svinayak »

China’s Geely to Buy Volvo From Ford for $1.8 Billion (Update1)
March 28, 2010, 10:15 AM EDT
MORE FROM BUSINESSWEEK
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... ate1-.html

(Adds price of sale in first paragraph, comments from Ford CFO, Geely chairman in second, fifth.)
By Ola Kinnander and Keith Naughton
March 28 (Bloomberg) -- Zhejiang Geely Holding Co. agreed to buy Volvo Cars from Ford Motor Co. for $1.8 billion in the biggest overseas acquisition by a Chinese automaker.
The deal will close in the third quarter, after which Ford and Volvo will continue to cooperate, Ford Chief Financial Officer Lewis Booth said told reporters today in Gothenburg, Sweden. The Chinese company will pay $1.6 billion in cash and the rest in a “note,” Ford said in a statement.
Booming auto sales in China made the nation the largest car market last year, generating profit that’s allowing its manufacturers to reach out to Western markets and technologies. Selling Volvo will complete Ford Chief Executive Officer Alan Mulally’s strategy of divesting European luxury lines to focus on its namesake brand. Ford has sold Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin since 2007.
“This could set the benchmark for more Chinese deals to come,” said Rebecca Lindland, an auto analyst at IHS Global Insight of Lexington, Massachusetts. “It potentially could allow Geely to come into the West with its own brand of vehicles.”
The Swedish carmaker will tap China’s growing car market, Geely Chairman Li Shufu said at the press conference.
Drop in Price
Geely first approached Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford about buying Volvo in mid-2008, two people familiar with the talks have said. Ford named Geely its “preferred bidder” in October 2009 and said on Dec. 23 that they had agreed on the major terms of the transaction. Ford paid $6.5 billion for Volvo in 1999.
“Compared to the business environment when we bought it, it’s a very different world,” Booth said in a March 24 interview. “We only have so much management resource, we only have so much capital to invest and we needed to make sure we were focusing on the Ford business.”
Geely, China’s largest private automaker based on 2008 sales, will gain access to Volvo’s technology as well as an image boost because of the brand’s status as a premium vehicle line in China, said Vivien Chan, an analyst at SinoPac Securities Asia Ltd. in Hong Kong.
Li, Geely’s founder, has said he is seeking to have half the company’s sales from overseas markets by 2015. He aims to sell 200,000 Volvos a year in China, up from 22,405 last year, and has been seeking locations for a new plant there.
Biggest Car Market
Sales-tax cuts for smaller vehicles combined with rural subsidies boosted nationwide auto sales in China 46 percent last year to 13.6 million, helping it supplant the U.S. as the world’s largest auto market.
Volvo sold 334,808 cars worldwide last year, a decline of 11 percent from 2008 and 27 percent from a peak of about 460,000 in 2007, according to the company. Its sales in the U.S. have risen for nine consecutive months and increased 40 percent this year through February.
Volvo CEO Stephen Odell said at the press conference today that the Swedish company plans to produce 390,000 cars this year, compared with 330,000 in 2009. Geely will restore profitability to Volvo, Booth said.
The Swedish carmaker has about 20,000 employees worldwide, including almost 14,000 in Sweden. It has about 2,500 dealers in 100 countries. The unit’s pretax loss narrowed to $934 million last year from $1.7 billion in 2008, Ford said on Jan. 28. Volvo’s last annual pretax profit was $377 million in 2005.
Saab Automobile, the Swedish auto brand that was under General Motors Co.’s control for the past two decades, was sold last month to Dutch luxury-car maker Spyker Cars NV for about $400 million.
Sharing Technology
Ford ended three years of losses with net income of $2.7 billion in 2009 and was the only major U.S. automaker to avoid bankruptcy.
Ford has said it and Volvo will continue to share parts and technology. The Swedish carmaker’s S40 model is built on the mechanical foundation of the Ford Focus now sold in Europe. Volvo supplies diesel engines for Ford’s European lineup.
Volvo’s managers endorse the sale to Geely, according to the Ford statement.
--With assistance from Tian Ying in Beijing. Editors: Kenneth Wong, James Amott, Will Kennedy.
To contact the reporters on this story: Ola Kinnander in Stockholm at [email protected] Keith Naughton in Dearborn, Michigan, at [email protected]
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at [email protected] Kenneth Wong at [email protected]
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Neshant »

Rollout of Tata Nano at a museum of design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohz_4LNvr-o

watch how they get the car in the museum. its interesting :)
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Vipul »

Its Official: GM India goes Junk.

Just when GM India has a half decent product (BEAT) , it is jeopardising itself with this Chinese connection. :x
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

is it true the waiting period for the largest selling sedan Swift dzire is 6 months?

MUL apparently has no interest in investing more to bring waiting period down - 6 month pipeline probably gives them excellent visibility in managing supplier orders and negotiating the best prices :((
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by vina »

it true the waiting period for the largest selling sedan Swift dzire is 6 months?
Yes. The "in demand" cars have a huge waiting period. Maruti Swift and Swift Dzire have 3 to 6 months waiting period. Indigo Manza has a month and a half waiting period, Chevy Beat and Cruze have 2 to 3 months.. i20 and Verna diesel versions have waiting periods.

There was an article in today's business std. A lot of that has to do with production capacity constraints , esp for maruti, coz, according to the article, the A star is made at the same plants as the Swift and that has huge export committments.

Manza, seems to be a runaway hit for Tata motors. Diesel i20 and Verna, I can understand. Hyundai imports the diesel engine and doesn't make them here. Chevy Beat is a big surprise. Must have picked up quite a few bookings I think.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

beat/figo/"honda small car" all look smarter than the dull etios hatchback. hyundai i10 & 20 are already there. Polo is attracting the itivity fanboy types. Ford is preparing its
latest fiesta which will compete better with honda city/Linea. at high end just compare
the number of civics vs corolla. civics sell much more and now Jetta has the fanboy eyeballs and is selling strongly in ORR :mrgreen: even lot of laura and superb from skoda are seen nowadays.

things look bleak for toyota etios imo unless they offer some great features for the price.
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Post by svinayak »


Independent assemblers in India may eventually build another 500,000 a year.
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