Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2212
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by shravan »

Hari Seldon wrote: Pound Could Collapse Within Weeks, Predicts Billionaire Financier Jim Rogers, http://bit.ly/bwALNt
Page not available :lol:

===

Financier Jim Rogers denies saying pound will collapse

"I did not know about this press release. I didn't say those things," Rogers told MarketWatch.com in a phone interview from Singapore Friday.
shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2212
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by shravan »

Bank Lending Plummets - As Wall Street Strangles Economy
Jeff Nielson

February 20, 2010
...
John Williams reported that inflation rose in the U.S. from 9.7% in December to 9.8% in January – a far cry from the fantasy-figures with which the U.S. government hopes to continue to deceive the world. However, those numbers should be rising much faster.

It is not just simple economics, but simple arithmetic that when you increase the supply of something at the fastest rate in history that the price must fall (and fall rapidly). This is true whether we are referring to the massive, over-supply of U.S. Treasuries, or the huge glut of greenbacks, themselves. When the “price” of U.S. dollars falls, this is the definition of inflation. A loaf of bread doesn't suddenly get more “valuable”, but rather the currency we use to buy that loaf of bread is becoming steadily more worthless.

The only reason why this has not already been translated to soaring price-inflation (i.e. double-digits or greater) is because the Oligarchs and the U.S. government have demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice all the rest of the U.S. economy – solely to prevent the banksters from drowning in their own financial feces.
...
rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by rsingh »

Carrefour Belgium is in big trouble.Closing 27 hyper stores and laying off thousands of smart Belgians. Belgians are always suspicious of French. French chain bought Belgian retailer "GB" and turned it in dustbin. They filled the store with shoddy Chinese stuff and got stuffed...............nobody goes there except for some really good quality products on during sale period. Strange feeling, very big store are closed on Saturdays. Wast parking space.........empty. It is a classic example of French bordel de gestion :eek:
paramu
BRFite
Posts: 669
Joined: 20 May 2008 11:38

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by paramu »

shravan wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote: Pound Could Collapse Within Weeks, Predicts Billionaire Financier Jim Rogers, http://bit.ly/bwALNt
Page not available :lol:

===

Financier Jim Rogers denies saying pound will collapse

"I did not know about this press release. I didn't say those things," Rogers told MarketWatch.com in a phone interview from Singapore Friday.
The report was there, I saw it yesterday.
rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by rsingh »

http://www.prisonplanet.com/prominent-i ... weeks.html
Billionaire financier Jim Rogers has predicted that the British Pound could completely collapse within weeks, sending shockwaves throughout the global economy and heralding the beginning of a downturn that would make the recent economic crisis look tame in comparison.

“Other currencies aren’t strong and the Euro has real problems, with cracks much wider than Greece beginning to show,” Rogers said.

“But it’s the Pound that’s most vulnerable. In real terms, it’s already devalued against virtually every currency barring the Zimbabwean dollar and it’s especially exposed over the weeks running up to the UK election. In a basket of currencies, the Pound is potentially a basket case. And that will put Britain in an extremely bad position for the shakedown.”

“The last few months have seen a ‘false bounce’, shorn up by massive short-term injections of government underwriting,” Rogers, the former business partner of George Soros, said.

“But it can’t last. We’ve been applying temporary sticking plasters, not long-term cures. Later this year we’ll see the start
of the real recession, with more Lehman-scale disasters and a fallout which won’t stop until the underlying malaise is genuinely cured.” he added.
Rogers was quoted in a press release ahead of a keynote appearance at next month’s Global Trading Day seminar in Westminster along with investment advisor Dr Marc Faber and British trader Vince Stanzione.
:((

Her Majesty's secret service MI007 could nat block Google :rotfl:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/288143

http://www.ifaonline.co.uk/ifaonline/ne ... os-partner
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Neshant »

Max Keiser interviewing Ellen Brown author of "Web of Debt"

(she is one sharp cookie)

Part II : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lhJCiafit0

Part III : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cixotVZ06q8
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4484
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by vera_k »

http://www.businesscycle.com/news/reports/1736
ECRI’s latest study reveals that the job market conditions for key segments of the population are far better than most realize. The study challenges the gloomy consensus about the job market outlook, and has major monetary policy implications.
shyam
BRFite
Posts: 1453
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by shyam »

Greek Protests 2010 (NWO SOCIETY SERIES/ Financial Crisis, Debt, Civil Unrest & Poverty)
shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2212
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by shravan »

Head of IMF proposes new reserve currency
Fri Feb 26, 4:13 pm ET
WASHINGTON – Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the head of the International Monetary Fund, suggested Friday the organization might one day be called on to provide countries with a global reserve currency that would serve as an alternative to the U.S. dollar.

"That day has not yet come, but I think it is intellectually healthy to explore these kinds of ideas now," he said in a speech on the future mandate of the 186-nation Washington-based lending organization.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

Just for laughs but this one is bloody funny...heh heh

How to Stay Awake During Obama Speeches: Play Bullshit Bingo
. Before Barrack Obama’s next televised speech, prepare your “Bullshit Bingo” card by drawing a square. I find that 5″ x 5″ is a good size — and dividing it into columns –five across and five down. That will give you 25 1-inch blocks.

2. Write one of the following words/phrases in each block:

Restored our reputation
Strategic fit
Let me be clear
Make no mistake
Back from the brink
Signs of recovery
Out of the loop
Benchmark
Job creation
Fiscal restraint
Win-win
Affordable health care
Previous Administration
At the end of the day
Empower (or empowerment)
Touch base
Mindset
Bipartisan
Trust
Inherited as in “I inherited this mess”
Relief for working families
Unprecedented
Accountable (or held to account)
Free market
Reform

Players can make substitutions to this list, but only one phrase can be used in any one block. Alternatives include:

Change (as in “change you can believe in)
Universal health care
Brought the economy back from the brink

3. Check off the appropriate block when you hear one of those words/phrases.

4. When you get five blocks horizontally, vertically, or diagonally, stand up and shout ”BULLSHIT!”
Thats easy, ain't it??
Testimonials from past satisfied “Bullshit Bingo” players:

”I had been listening to the speech for only five minutes when I won.” - Jack W., Boston

”My attention span during speeches has improved dramatically.” – David D., Florida

”What a gas! Speeches will never be the same for me after my first win.” - Bill R., New York City

“The atmosphere was tense in the last speech as 14 of us waited for the fifth box.” – Ben G., Denver

“The speaker was stunned as eight of us screamed “BULLSHIT!” for the third time in two hours.” – Harry A. Chantilly
:rotfl:

The comments are pretty revealing and not-pretty. Obama apologia is out in force. And the most overused apology - however bad Sri Obama be, he's far better than GWB. Cold comfort that, IMHO.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

This from Ed Harrison in naked capitalism
RBS pays billions while Commerzbank bankers get nothing
Over the past few days, a number of major European banks have announced earnings results. Two of the most dismal results were registered at the British company Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and at Germany’s Commerzbank. However, the similarity ends there because, while Commerzbank investment bankers received no bonus, the bankers at government-controlled RBS received billions of dollars in bonuses. In my view, this differences highlight a cultural divide on compensation between financial services-dominated countries like the U.S. and the U.K. and industry-driven economies like Germany.
As perceptive as it is obvious. Read it all onlee.
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Neshant »

Head of IMF proposes new reserve currency
This series on the Federal Reserve made few years before the current economic fiasco unfolded makes remarkably accurate predictions. One prediction i remember is a move towards an international currency which it predicts will be short lived.

Part I : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxxWBiQXyxo
Part II : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZzD_ztwmyI
Part III : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-6yW46KUWc
Part IV : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WchSGXE_gP4
Part V : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmmLfXpxHos
Last edited by Neshant on 28 Feb 2010 00:00, edited 1 time in total.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

Rich City, Poor City
It’s no secret we live in a country of haves and have-nots. But did you know there’s a California city where nearly 29 percent of households earn more than $200,000 a year, while in one Pennsylvania city, not a single household makes that amount?
Very interesting interactive map and stats of median income disparity across cities and towns.
With apologies to Charles Dickens, that could well be the start A Tale of Two Cities if his 1859 masterpiece had been written today about the economic quality of modern American life. After all, we’re living in a time when economists talk hopefully about a recovery, but the recession still holds the nation in its merciless grip.

Key indicators tell this unhappy story. The national unemployment rate might have dropped from the double-digit level it hit in December, but the January rate of 9.7 percent is nothing to cheer about. Average wages have declined for two consecutive quarters, something that last occurred in the late 1970s.

But the pain is not spread equally. Many areas are being battered by the full force of the Great Recession—Detroit and Phoenix are prime examples—yet others are remarkably comfortable.
Read it all. As for commentary, IMHO Tyler Durden over at zero hedge says it best:
One thing is certain: if you live in any of the 5 poorest cities, which in addition to Reading include Camden, New Jersey; Flint, Michigan; Brownsville, Texas; and Gary, Indiana (and Detroit, which is sixth from the bottom), the last thing you care about it the prevailing home price around Fashion Island, or level of the S&P - you are likely much more concerned about the amount of ammunition in your garage.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

More ZH.
Europe: Quantifying The Donors And Moochers

Here's 'em punchlines:
With the dramatic emergence of intra-EU bickering between various "banana-eating countries" and "tax cheats", it is easy to lose sight of the forest for the banana trees. While it is subjective to say who owes whom what, one thing that is very objective, is whose money is critical to sustaining the European Union. And here there is no doubt: without Germany, the EU would not exist. The country, which receives €78 billion from the EU annually, pays out more than double that, or €164 billion, for a net impact of (€1,045) per capita. Surely the Germans would be just as happy to see this money retained by their economy instead of going to assorted hangers-on. And speaking of the latter, one of the biggest recipients, with a net benefit of €2,284 per person, is Greece, which pays just €15 billion a year to the EU but receives nearly triple, or €40 billion. We wonder just how Greece will plug that particular hole should the EU dissolve after the recent escalation in rhetoric threatens to royally piss off the Germans.
An interesting comment:
but it's much more complicated. Germany has a massive intra-EU trade surplus, clearly helped by the monetary union and the associated reduction of trade frictions. Would they be able to export as much to Europe in the absence of monetary union? Are you telling us they are acting irrationally by perpetuating a system in which they do not benefit?

It's worth exploring the deeper German motives and incentives in order for us all here on ZH to figure out how this is going to resolve itself.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

The EMU project seems to be slowly but surely unraveling. Sad in a way, coz I'd had high hopes one day Yindia would consolidate its periphery and perhaps even the entire IOR region under some sort of confederation of economic, hence monetary and maybe even security interests. WIth India as the anchor, of course.

EC's unraveling will complicate the precedent and power of example of such transnational confederations.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

OT-ish, somewhat but apt, anyhow.

An Obituary printed in the London Times - Interesting and sadly rather true.
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
- Why the early bird gets the worm;
- Life isn't always fair;
- and maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual
harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses, and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a.woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers:
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
:shock:
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

From Mish's site:
The New York Times puts some names and faces of the "New Poor" in an gut-wrenching four page article Millions of Unemployed Face Years Without Jobs.

Excerpts:
Even as the American economy shows tentative signs of a rebound, the human toll of the recession continues to mount, with millions of Americans remaining out of work, out of savings and nearing the end of their unemployment benefits.

Call them the new poor: people long accustomed to the comforts of middle-class life who are now relying on public assistance for the first time in their lives — potentially for years to come.
The $64 million question is what (if anything) will they do about it?
Yet the social safety net is already showing severe strains. Roughly 2.7 million jobless people will lose their unemployment check before the end of April unless Congress approves the Obama administration’s proposal to extend the payments, according to the Labor Department.
{And which they so far have failed to do. The Repuglycans have held out, in another suicidal Gingrich kinda wager, IMHO}

“American business is about maximizing shareholder value,” said Allen Sinai, chief global economist at the research firm Decision Economics. “You basically don’t want workers. You hire less, and you try to find capital equipment to replace them.”
Something I realized when in massaland. Its one thing to proclaim 'our people are our assets' etc. Its another to pay benefits, obey onerous regulations and take risks (re litigation etc) over and above wages. It was becoming a burden employing the khans in the khanate for low skill jobs.
During periods of American economic expansion in the 1950s, ’60s and ’70s, the number of private-sector jobs increased about 3.5 percent a year, according to an analysis of Labor Department data by Lakshman Achuthan, managing director of the Economic Cycle Research Institute, a research firm. During expansions in the 1980s and ’90s, jobs grew just 2.4 percent annually. And during the last decade, job growth fell to 0.9 percent annually.

“The pace of job growth has been getting weaker in each expansion,” Mr. Achuthan said. “There is no indication that this pattern is about to change.”

On average, only two-thirds of unemployed people received state-provided unemployment checks last year, according to the Labor Department. The rest either exhausted their benefits, fell short of requirements or did not apply.

“You have very large sets of people who have no social protections,” said Randy Albelda, an economist at the University of Massachusetts in Boston. “They are landing in this netherworld.”

“We have a work-based safety net without any work,” said Timothy M. Smeeding, director of the Institute for Research on Poverty at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. “People with more education and skills will probably figure something out once the economy picks up. It’s the ones with less education and skills: that’s the new poor.”
Read it all.
Misra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 100
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 09:03

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Misra »

sugriva wrote:
Since new drugs cost roughly $1 billion each to develop and bring to market globally,
Well the reason drug development time takes $1 billion is because pharma companies refuse to use computer based simulations to determine whether a drug will work or not.
most pharma/biotech cos--pfizer, merck, j&j, etc, even monsanto--have long standing and well defined computational chem/bio r&d components and spend quite some time/funds on folks who know, e.g., how to rapidly screen millions of chemical compounds down to a few leads. the billion dollar price tag is largely due to the rigorous, and some say over-regulated, FDA requirements for the three phases of drug testing/development in the US such that it takes 10-15 yrs for a candidate to reach the market.
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Neshant »

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

x-post

Greece Now, U.K. Next as Scots Ready for Pound Plunge
March 1 (Bloomberg) -- While the eyes of the world focus on Greece’s debt crisis, investors in Edinburgh are busy preparing for the U.K. to be next.

Turcan Connell, which caters to rich families, expects the pound to lose between 20 percent and 30 percent against the dollar once investors turn their sights on Britain as the government sells a record amount of debt. Sterling slid to a 10- month low versus the U.S. currency today.

“Alarm bells were ringing in Greece for a long time and when it happened, it happened very quickly,” Haig Bathgate, head of strategy at Turcan Connell, said at the company’s offices in the Scottish capital. “The U.K. is in a similar predicament. It could be hit very hard.”

Money managers in Edinburgh, where investment decisions have been made on behalf of insurers, pensioners and the wealthy for two centuries, are maneuvering to protect assets from the U.K. economy as it limps out of its worst recession on record.

Bruce Stout, whose Murray International Trust Plc in Edinburgh has doubled over the past five years, said the chance of a plummeting pound are “better than even” and his biggest holdings are in Asia and Latin America. He called sterling a “very vulnerable currency.”
...
The U.K.’s budget deficit is roughly the same as Greece’s, both exceeding 12 percent of economic output. Moody’s Investors Service and Standard & Poor’s said last week they may cut Greece’s credit rating as the five-month-old government struggles to curb spending and control its debt.
...
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s government in December increased its planned gilt sales for the financial year ending this month to a record 225.1 billion pounds from the 220 billion pounds announced in April. Moody’s Investors Service said in December the U.K. may “test the Aaa boundaries.”
Yawn.

Ordinarily, I would've gone BWAHAHAHAHA at Ukstani travails. Sadly, I'm not so blinded by my own biases as to not notice that UKstan may escape its bad karma, yet again.

The 'boiling pot' theory they call it. When everyone expects stuff to happen and watch the pot, it seldom boils over or something like that. So too with gleat Bshitstain. As with TSP. They'll never collapse as long people expect and look fwd to them to do so. *jai jinxie*

Wake me up when the GBP collapses kissing parity with the packee rupee.... :twisted: that'll be the day lungi dances will burst forth in 'em colored former colonies....beech sadak bhangra onlee. :wink: jai hoax jai hoax.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

^^^
I agree. UK is in "too important to fail" category.
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Neshant »

There's an unspoken agreement between debt rating agencies like Moody's and S&P and certain countries to rate their debt favorably.

Anyway the world now knows the kind of corruption Moody's and S&P engage in having rated trillions of sub-prime junk as AAA. Not one person has gone to jail for that fraud even while these rating agencies go on operating as if nothing happened - a testimony to the level of coverup and collusion.

India better be careful of these BS rating agencies from overseas which follow a politicial agenda.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

^^^^
The entire system is messed up, going after one or two large fishes is only symbolic. I have seen people arguing or raising the "retention of talent" argument when GS CEO took the $9million stock based bonus, a sharp decline from $68million the previous year. They were worried companies would not be able to retain talent. No, people who make these arguments are not millionaires, they are aam junta in the financial, supply-chain, itiyadi sectors.

I begin to see where R.Vaidya was coming from, when he wrote some time back on the need for the of the West to die for India and others to rise.
Last edited by SwamyG on 02 Mar 2010 03:02, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60276
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by ramana »

SwamyG wrote:^^^^
The entire system is messed up, going after one or two large fishes is only symbolic. I have seen people arguing or raising the "retention of talent" argument when GS CEO took the $9million stock based bonus, a sharp decline from $68million the previous year. They were worried companies would not be able to retain talent. No, people who make these arguments are not millionaires, they are aam junta in the financial, supply-chain, itiyadi sectors.

I begin to see where R.Vaidya was coming from, when he wrote some time back on the need for the of the West for India and others to rise.
Its like those blue collar Republicans and rich doctors who complain about Obama ramming healthcare thru!
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60276
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by ramana »

Hari Seldon wrote:
ramana wrote:Hari, I dont know if you have seen this video

Are Math models the cause of Financial Crisis in Global Economy? Dr. Andrew Lo.

Very good exposition. He is Prof of Financial Engg at MIT,
Hadn't seen that particular video before, Ramana garu.

Taleb and party have been hammering at precisely this blind reliance on modeling in the social sciences that cannot comprehend black swans only.
In the middle of the lecture he has a slide on what caused the mess. he says three things:
Charles Perrow: Theory of normal accidents states
1) Complexity of the process
2)Tight coupling ie one thing leads to another
3) Dr Lo's contribution: Human behavior. When long periods elapse without any accidents people tend to gorw complacent and discount warning signs.


BTW, over last week I have gone over mentally over things that went wrong in workplace and bingo all three were present.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

ramana wrote:Its like those blue collar Republicans and rich doctors who complain about Obama ramming healthcare thru!
ha ha... :rotfl: that is after nearly 13 months of debates or whatever they want to call that. The word "ramming through" conjures a cartoon bubble where things were hastily drawn up 2-3 days ago and then procedural tactics are now used to get things done in a hurry. The issue has been in the public airwaves for more than a year.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60276
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by ramana »

Last night a rich Indian doctor was complaining about how Medicare is going to be cut ~20% from today neglecting to mention that Congress is working to restore it. My co-guest asked her if she is recovering the costs atleast after the cuts. And she said yes. He then asked if she makes profit? She said yes it cuts the profit margin for her but she worries about the poor doctors in Florida who rely ~80% on Medicare! So he says why you worry let them worry! She then goes on a tirade about how BO is ramming the legislation thru. So he says what should he do? She says he should work with Republicans. he says you saw the healthacre summit. Did one Repulbican offer any thing that BO can latch on? No, but he should still work with them!

I think the docs are getting coached thru their own interests groups on how to work the fear among the patients.

Adny Lo has the following:

NYT article

and

http://web.mit.edu/alo/www/Papers/august07.pdf
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

^^^^
All systems have plus and minus points. Looks like the minus points are dragging the good things down too. While there might be plus points in having prescription medicines advertised, but if a human being is constantly bombarded with ads on nexium or itiyadi and coaxed to ask his doctor if they are right for them; it gives a sense that they need doctors to just give the final approval (or prescription). I can't imagine the pressure these doctors must be facing from the pharmas.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60276
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by ramana »

Dont cry for me Argentina! The docs have arranged with Masala Cruise lines to have medical CME talks, given by a colleague one hour on one day in a week long cruise, so they can write it off as medical learning expense. And most pharma cos pay for their vacations to Swiss Alps.

Anyway for the rest of us
Newsweek weekly description of $100K jobs:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/234313
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21234
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Prem »

Talking about health Insurance , has any one studied tax deductable HSA ( Health Saving Account)plan offered by various Insurance companies.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »


Being unemployed is tougher than ever as people are struggling to find jobs longer than before. But another segment of our society that is sinking even lower. Homeless Americans live in tents in the woods outside of New York City, as crowded shelters cannot accommodate them. The youngest member of this homeless commune, 21-year-old Rob, was laid off when the economic crisis began, and he doesn't see any possibility to land a job soon.
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Neshant »

Sorry to hear about your plight Marten.

I'm paying the insurance company every month for group health insurance but the MFers keep refusing to pay for my medication with canned replies like 'does not meet age requirement'.

WTF does that mean? Do I have to be 65 and on my death bed before I meet the age requirement. A licenced doctor has determined I need the medication. Who is the insurance company to make a medical determination that its not OK for me to have it.

Insurance is like the financial industry - which is to say a ripoff industry. They make money off NOT paying legitimate claims. I'm going to cut this sh&t off soon because if they don't pay for the small things, what are the odds they will pay when I'm running around in a wheel chair.
Last edited by Neshant on 02 Mar 2010 10:59, edited 1 time in total.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

FWIW, my 2 cents on the healthcare debate as well:

I 100% support universal healthcare via a public option. The closer the US gets to a Oiro/Canadian model, the better for the rest of the world. Why, you ask?

Well, because can-kicking becomes harder, taxation burden suddenly starts to better reflect services provided, the day of reckoning gets closer when the rules that apply to non-sooperpowers get to apply also to the hyperpower only.

What'll it mean for the rest of us? Well, for one, non-essential expenses such as maintaining mil bases in faraway shores will have to get a re-look in. Far-fetched you say? Well, maybe, maybe not. The rioting on the streets due to denial of welfare, entitlements, benefits of all stripes and promises made sans funding is yet to strike. Harder besides, for gubmints to clamp down on bad noose in the internet age.

The avg amrikhan also benefits because the ball and chain that ties in a worker to an employer (fmly health coverage provided by employer group insurance) is lightened quite a bit. Businesses hire again because the burden of providing healthcare is off their backs now. The country becomes more easygoing, laid-back, high-tax yes but low stress, like Canada - or so theory says.

I fully expect things to turn on their heads in the 2010-12 period. Or not.
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Neshant »

At the end of the day a state sponsored health care is just robbing one guy to pay for another. Medical group insurance is another piece of BS which is just the same but with insurance company taking most of the money.

Best way forward :

1) Import a ton of foreign doctors, surgeons and dentists
2) Allow private hospitals to be setup and listed on the stock exchange, good hospitals will rise to the top, bad ones will sink.
3) Get rid of the Medical Boards which are just cartels running a racket to keep their salaries high.
4) If still unaffordable, repeat from step (1)

That will bring medical costs down in a hurry instead of wasting tons of money funding medical programs like some wall street bailout. Too many industries have learnt how to game system to extract more and more money and its time to do a 'shortage of skills' lie on them as was done by Microsoft to the IT industry to import a ton of people and cut wages down.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by Hari Seldon »

If you decide to undertake the risk of illness on personal cost, it would be far more costlier to manage. The free market system cannot work when the service providers have severe entry barriers to their market, plus current economies of scale will provide better leverage to the end customers. What is also required is good legislation to keep insurers from abusing their right to deny coverage. Any number of insurers can come up, but they will never be accountable to the public (unless they are shareholders).
Excellent points all.

The healthcare mkt in the khanate is anything but a free mkt.

One big cost driver that seldom gets enough attn is the cost of prescription drugs. Under re-importation rules (one US law needs to be amended for this, that is all), any pharmacy in the khanate can trade in the global mkt medicines like other businesses trade in goods. That 1 change will sink the cost of medicines in the US by like 90%+. The same meds are selling elsewhere (in canada for example) at a huge markdown.

Its a racket, thats what it is.

And globalized healthcare can maybe set it right, under a caveat emptor regime.

But the coming crisis will washout the deadwood. Will force reality and change. The longer the truth is postponed the worse the cure eventually gets. The west has been living beyond its means for a while now. Promising entitlements way beyond anybody's capacities to pay - borrowing today's std of living from future trouble.

Its over.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

At the end of the day a state sponsored health care is just robbing one guy to pay for another.
That is simply a rhetoric; the flip side it is the simple truth too. The simple truth when painted with political colors pushes reasonable people into Glen Beck corner.

The state of affairs in this world is that in order for a rich guy to exist, there have to be several poor people around the world. In order for a rich country to exist, there needs to be several poor countries? Why? There is more demand than supply of resources. The supply being less than the demand could be because of natural or artificial reasons. Drought could affect crop prices and speculation can increase commodity prices.

The insurance industry will not exist if there were not any healthy people around who take insurance. One reason why premiums are increasing is because the healthier people are opting out of health insurance; there by impacting the risk pool eventually. So there are more sick people with insurance; and the insurance company has to increase the premiums on these folks. If the systems is already working at the most efficient level, i.e there is no more cost optimization that can take place, the only way insurance companies will make profit and have small premiums is by having more people paying premiums.

I have friends argue that insurance premiums are voluntary but taxes (the often quoted example of robbing Tulsidas and paying Meera bhai) are not. Ultimately, in any society we enjoy and/or suffer because of other members of society. Sometimes sacrifices and compromises are called for. If we are not ready to do that, why would anyone else do it for us?
Last edited by SwamyG on 02 Mar 2010 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

Stocks Rally on Indian Expansion, Prospect of Greece Agreement
Ah.....Bloomberg led its news hour with a 2 second mention of Indian economy - manufacturing leading to a stocks rally. Just few more years before desh takes its rightful place in the global trade.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

Also this morning, Bloomberg TV folks were talking about the GM sales numbers rising by 11.5%. Then they compared it with Hyundai, then drum roll...................................drum roll................... Tata Motors. They reminded Tata Motors was the one that bought Jaguar & Land Rover and go on to mention its sales went up by 58% - so GM numbers are not that great.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Post by SwamyG »

the utopian vision that goes along with the ideology of Govt expansion and usurpation of private rights always aims for an unattainable goal: EQUALITY.
ha ha... :rotfl: those private rights that you talk about was given in the first place by Government.
i think it's about time that the old Federalist debates of late-18th and early 19th century come to the forefront again
And little beyond and read what Thomas Paine itiyadi also had to say about government.
Locked