Indian Naval Discussion

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 02 Mar 2010 23:51

Kersi D wrote:
Philip wrote:Expansion of "MRE" meals. "Meals Refused by Ethiopians"!
I believe it is meal REJECTED by thr Ethiopians !!!!

K

Just in a moood for splitting hairs!!

Am I mssing something here?? From where I come from, MRE are known for Meal's Read to Eat! Unless this is one of those BRFites urban dictionary word, then I might need to get myself up to speed!

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 03 Mar 2010 05:20

BAE Systems to Provide Mission Computer Systems for Indian Navy Patrol Aircraft

GREENLAWN, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--BAE Systems is developing the mission computer system suite for the P-8I aircraft for the Indian Navy. The aircraft is a variant of the U.S. Navy’s P-8A Poseidon.

Developed by a Boeing-led team, the P-8I is a multi-mission maritime patrol aircraft with a broader range of capabilities to operate over land or water while performing anti-submarine warfare; search and rescue; and long-range intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance.

“Maritime surveillance and patrol is becoming more and more important to effective defense,” said Donna Linke-Klein, director of mission computers and antenna solutions for BAE Systems. “The P-8I mission computer system provides superior interoperability for the future battle space.”

BAE Systems’ mission computer system suite for the P-8I is a flexible and ruggedized processing platform that can be configured to meet the general purpose, input and output, video, voice, and graphics processing needs for modern military battle management requirements.

The P-8A Poseidon is a long-range; anti-submarine warfare; anti-surface warfare; intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft. The Indian government selected Boeing to provide eight P-8I aircraft to fill its maritime patrol needs, replacing Tupolev Tu-142M aircraft.

BAE Systems will begin deliveries to Boeing in 2011.

Mark Walpole · Post by **Mark Walpole** » 03 Mar 2010 06:12

MRE does mean Meals Ready to Eat as u said but the standards of these are pretty questionable..they are meant to provide a high calorie intake for a soldier...but taste, consistency etc generally take a back seat...ive had a few british MRE's and well lets say the best bit was a packet of sugary drink powder which if mixed with a litle water and eaten would keep u awake for hours...

.... the description as Meals Rejected by Ethiopians is just to highlight the fact that the food items are generally very low in quality..lol

John · Post by **John** » 03 Mar 2010 06:47

shukla wrote:Aegis Combat System (ACS) for Project 17A??

We are in touch with the Indian MoD regarding the Indian Navy’s consideration of the world’s most advanced shipboard Weapons System, the Aegis Combat System (ACS). The US Navy has briefed the Indian Navy on the capabilities of the world's premier area air defense combat system; other Asia Pacific navies operating Aegis systems are Japan, South Korea and Australia. Lockheed Martin and Hyundai Heavy Industries also included the Aegis CMS concept when answering the Project 17A RFI.
http://www.defenseworld.net/go/detailin ... .jsp?id=35

Most likely be based on this Korea's FFX program designed by Hyundai.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 03 Mar 2010 06:48

Mark Walpole wrote:MRE does mean Meals Ready to Eat as u said but the standards of these are pretty questionable..they are meant to provide a high calorie intake for a soldier...but taste, consistency etc generally take a back seat...ive had a few british MRE's and well lets say the best bit was a packet of sugary drink powder which if mixed with a litle water and eaten would keep u awake for hours... .... the description as Meals Rejected by Ethiopians is just to highlight the fact that the food items are generally very low in quality..lol

aaahhh gottcha! I've had MRE's myself and yes, the best part of them were Desert and Chocolates (definitely not the food, however after 3 weeks, 1 gets used to it, especially when you are worn out and hungry. MRE's would be like a delicacy then!)

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 03 Mar 2010 09:56

The Indian Navy’s Agenda for Maritime Security in the Indian Ocean

Earlier this month, the Indian navy hosted the seventh biennial Milan-2010 exercises in the seas around the Bay of Bengal’s Andaman and Nicobar Islands, where eight Asia-Pacific navies (Australia, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, Singapore, Sri Lanka and Thailand, along with observers from Brunei, Philippines, Vietnam and New Zealand) had gathered. The agenda at this naval congregation included discussions on maritime terrorism, piracy, and a seminar on humanitarian aid and disaster relief. Afterwards the participating navies conducted joint naval exercises focused on sea lane security.

The Indian Navy chief has stated that Milan-2010 does not indicate the creation of a “security bloc” targeted against any other nation, an apparent reference to China, which is very sensitive to multinational naval exercises held by other Asian-Pacific states. Three of the navies observing or participating in Milan-2010 (Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines) belong to nations engaged in territorial disputes with China over the resource-rich Spratly Islands of the South China Sea.

Links to a Bharat-Rakshak article on Op Cactus.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 03 Mar 2010 10:04

Craig Alpert wrote: aaahhh gottcha! I've had MRE's myself and yes, the best part of them were Desert and Chocolates (definitely not the food, however after 3 weeks, 1 gets used to it, especially when you are worn out and hungry. MRE's would be like a delicacy then!)

You are easy to please it appears.

MRE, be it with the UN Forces or Indian Army is LOUSY!

Even the chocolates are brittle and flaky!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Mar 2010 10:06

the height of heli deck on P17 and Talwar looks about same - a bit too low imho. but talwar has
this verandah below the deck - will it be awash in heavy seas?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 03 Mar 2010 11:12

John wrote:Most likely be based on this Korea's FFX program designed by Hyundai.

Wonder who else the RFI has gone out to? It would be quite interesting to see if IN eventually chooses it.. curiously sales for ACS's have boomed in the mid 2000s..

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Mar 2010 11:47

CNN-IBN : Navy plane crashes at Hyderabad air show.

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 03 Mar 2010 12:01

Thought that the P-17A RFI was a dead thing with the IN deciding to go in for a local design with help from DCN???????????????????

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 03 Mar 2010 12:16

Kersi D wrote:
Philip wrote:Expansion of "MRE" meals. "Meals Refused by Ethiopians"!

I believe it is meal REJECTED by thr Ethiopians !!!!

K

Just in a mood for splitting hairs!!
Am I missing something here?? From where I come from, MRE are known for Meal's Read to Eat! Unless this is one of those BRFites urban dictionary word, then I might need to get myself up to speed!

You are right

MRE means, Meals Ready to Eat

But I believe that the stuff is supposed to be so lousy that the soldiers of the US army call it Meals Rejected by Ethiopians !!!

K

PS No offence meant

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 03 Mar 2010 12:25

A surya kiran plan went down. No news of the pilot

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 03 Mar 2010 12:51

A Surya Kiran crashed during hyderabad aviation show,pilot maurya dead

(RIP) his body is beyond recognition,co pilot missing,the aircraft crashed on a penthouse of a building 5 people injured

Surya Kiran crashed

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Mar 2010 14:10

Alcock Ashdown has launched two catamaran hulled hydrographic survey vessels for the Indian Navy. These 2 catamarans will be commissioned as INS Makar and INS Meen:

Gujarat builds 1st survey catamarans for Indian navy

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Mar 2010 16:23

Information culled from an Indian Navy hand-out. for Navy Day 2009. That would make the handout to date around Dec. 2009.

Interestingly the Arihant is not shown under the “Ships on order in India” though the Scorpene submarines are. Arihant is mentioned elsewhere in the handout though.

The nuclear submarine supposedly heading our way from Russia is not mentioned either.

SHIPS ON ORDER IN INDIA (34)

Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE) 10

- P-28 (ASW Corvette) – 04
- Fast Attack Craft (FACs) – 06

Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) 01

- Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) – 01

Alcock Ashdown Gujarat Limited (AAGL). 06

Survey Vessels – 06

Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) 12

- P-15A Destroyers – 03
- P-17 (Shivalik) – 03
- P-75 (Scorpene) – 06

Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) 05

- Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) – 04
- Sail Training Ship – 01

SHIPS ON ORDER FROM ABROAD (06)

- Talwar follow-on (Russia) – 03
- Vikramaditya / Gorshkov (Russia) – 01
- Fleet Tanker (Italy) – 02

The handout which has other useful bits of information like current force levels (incl. aviation assets), inductions in 2010 and aviation acquisition plans, is available here:

SPS Naval Forces

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Mar 2010 16:30

narayana wrote:A Surya Kiran crashed during hyderabad aviation show,pilot maurya dead (RIP) his body is beyond recognition,co pilot missing,the aircraft crashed on a penthouse of a building 5 people injured

The co-pilot Rahul Nair is dead too

. The Hindu has the updated news, with a Photograph as well.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 03 Mar 2010 17:16

On MRE
There was a news article a fews months back that Indian Army jawans will be getting Biryani MRE's. Did any of you tasted these ??? Should be good right? as its biryani.

Meanwhile Maggi and kellogs could be good alternatives

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Mar 2010 17:27

people, can we comment about the crash in flight safety thread ?
____________________________

from what I heard from a couple of people(ex-jawans) they were all praise for desi MRE's, when it's available.
____________________________

thanks arun.

arun wrote:Information culled from an Indian Navy hand-out. for Navy Day 2009. That would make the handout to date around Dec. 2009....................
SPS Naval Forces

from the article.

AIRCRAFT ACQUISITION / UPGRADATION PLANS
LRMP : P-8 I Boeing
IL-38 retro-fitted with the ‘Sea Dragon’ suite
MRMR : 11 Dorniers ex HAL Kanpur
06 being procured through global tendering
Helos : 16 MRH to replace Seakings (A/B)
47 ALH to replace Chetaks (something I've been talking of for a long time now.)
Fighters : 16 MIG 29K
Training : 17 AJTs ex HAL

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Mar 2010 18:12

Did anyone notice the M60 machine guns and M242 bushmaster cannons transferred along with the Jalashwa? I didnt realize hot transfer includes food cooking in the galley.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 797292.JPG

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 03 Mar 2010 18:55

tsarkar ji,
Thanks for the info on Shivalik Radar, offcourse we don't want to you to divulge any information which may affect opsec.

Now coming to Navy's procurement plan from the above document, whatever happend to mine countermeasure vessels. Didn't we plan on building some indigenous ones eons ago?

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Mar 2010 19:16

^^^ The MCMV’s have indeed dropped off the horizon.

Speculating ………. Perhaps the 6 Aluminum hulled survey catamarans that AAGL is supplying have a secondary mine clearing role. These vessels are coming equipped with the HUGIN 1000 AUV’s which is a core piece of kit used by Norwegian mine hunter HNoMS Karmoey.

The purchase of 2 DSRV’s has also dropped off the horizon. In his 2005 Navy Day address Adm. Arun Prakash had said that the IN had selected a DSRV and efforts for deal finalisation were on.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 03 Mar 2010 19:32

RayC wrote: You are easy to please it appears.

MRE, be it with the UN Forces or Indian Army is LOUSY!

Even the chocolates are brittle and flaky!

Well I guess it helps if one is a vegan

Can't go wrong with only a fewchoices. Mac and Cheese, Pastas, and Eggplant parmesan.
I'm surprised that Indian Army acutally carries MRE's. I have always seen them having rations, a lil diesel/kerosene lamp and water with which they cook rice, bajara, and carry some non perishables like sakkarparas, At best I have seen Parle-G Glucose biscuists as well. Normally they "cook" their food, unlike forces in the west, who ONLY carry MRE's when OTM and if they aren't then they'll eat in the Chow/Mess hall where they can get all the food that's COOKED. But I've always seen IA cook even on the go. Maybe times have changed now, but intersting nonetheless.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Mar 2010 20:02

Sunil, I myself don’t have any new information other that what I learn here and there. I retired nine years back.

From what I last heard, the minesweepers on the market have hulls of amagnetic steel (is it manganese steel?) or GRP. None of the vendors were willing for ToT of the exact material. All they agreed was local assembly using sections imported from their yards. Didn’t hear anything thereafter.

The present minesweepers have seen some upgrades, though.

John · Post by **John** » 04 Mar 2010 03:34

tsarkar wrote:From what I last heard, the minesweepers on the market have hulls of amagnetic steel (is it manganese steel?) or GRP. None of the vendors were willing for ToT of the exact material. All they agreed was local assembly using sections imported from their yards. Didn’t hear anything thereafter.

The present minesweepers have seen some upgrades, though.

As per this article first two were to built abroad with the rest in GSL, no idea how old that info it is.

Willy wrote:Thought that the P-17A RFI was a dead thing with the IN deciding to go in for a local design with help from DCN???????????????????

Where did you hear that?, the RFI is still on for a foreign partner DCNS was frontrunner in that as per Ajai Shukla's article March 2009.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2010 15:02

Russia, India to sign $4 billion military technical cooperation contracts

A $2.35-billion contract between Russia's state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Defense Ministry on refitting the INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) and the $1.2-billion contract on delivery of MiG-29K/KUB carrier-based fighters will be signed during Putin's visit to India on March 11-12.

The Vikramaditya is currently undergoing repairs and refit at the Sevmash shipyard in Russia.

The initial refit agreement of $970 million went up to additional $1.5 billion India is expected to allocate to Sevmash shipyard which already expended the money that was allocated for the Vikramaditya's refit.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 04 Mar 2010 17:34

India issues RFI for Naval NBC simulator

"The Indian Navy intends to set up a Nuclear (Radiological), Biological and Chemical Defence training facility to train its personnel. The facility is intended to be shore based,” an Indian news agency report quoting the RFI documents said.

The simulator would be built on a steel structure resembling a ship, outfitted with systems and equipment for training personnel in achieving collective NBC protection through 'closing down', pre-wetting systems and platform decontamination.

"The facility would make training as realistic as possible on a four-deck ship-based structure, which would be the NBC simulator," Navy officers said here. The training exercise to be simulated would include detection of NBC agents to decontamination of the same.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 04 Mar 2010 19:33

This is a Google translation of news release from Sevmash web-page:

General Director of JSC "PO" Sevmash "Nikolay Kalistratov and professionals visited the company on a business trip on the Black Sea Shipyard (Nikolayev) - one of the largest companies in the industry of Ukraine.
The main purpose of the trip - to get acquainted with the experience of Ukrainian shipbuilders to build aircraft carriers. Nicholas Kalistratov held talks with the leadership of the Black Sea plant and specialists of the enterprise. According to their results on Sevmash experience are invited to send three members of the Black Sea shipyard. Among them - the main builder of "Baku" Eugene M. Entis.
In the former Soviet Black Sea plant was the only one having production capacities and the construction of aircraft carriers attack different types of length over 300 meters. Since it slips came down with such powerful ships as "Kiev", "Minsk", "Novorossiysk", "Baku", and later received the name of "Admiral Gorshkov". Now this aircraft carrier overhaul and modernization of generating unit for the Indian Navy, so knowledge and experience of Ukrainians in the creation of our company aircraft carriers are needed.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 05 Mar 2010 01:01

Is this kind of door permanent feature on the most modern Navy ship?? The same kind of door was on the pic with engine control room, BTW.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S ... C02497.JPG

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 05 Mar 2010 07:09

Guys , check this out, oct 08/09

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/e-2 ... acs-03443/

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 05 Mar 2010 09:36

krishna_krishna wrote:Guys , check this out, oct 08/09

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/e-2 ... acs-03443/

Krishnaji it also clarifies as below

Direct discussions with Northrop Grumman representatives clarified this stuation. The E-2D was recently approved for export to India, which clears the way for the USN to conduct E-2D technical briefings with India under American arms export laws. To date, however, there is no sale and no contract.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2010 09:44

looks like with a new-Russo friendly premier in Ukraine and the orange revolution gang out of power,
Rus wants to revive the cosy relationships and Nikolayev is obviously #1, with Antonov and missile bureau's following closely. some of the top weapons design & production shops were in ukraine.
the T-80 was designed and made in ukraine. as were lots of rockets and missiles.

as a sign of committment they could perhaps let Nikolayev build 2 of the 4 Mistrals they plan to buy.
or some other capital ship.

this was the yard which was working on the 90,000t CVN Ulyanovsk when the USSR sank.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Mar 2010 13:08

The new Ukranian premier is off on his first visit to Russia after winning the election,promising a new era in Ukranian-Russo relations,ironing out issues which escalated tension earlier deliberately done at washington's behest.His election might also have an impact upon Pak's earlier supplies of arms from Ukraine.India has an excellent opportunity to engage wiht the new UKranian PM and see that arms sales to rogue state Pak are stopped.Better Ukraine-Russia ties in the military sphere could also help India which has many weapon systems that were built in the Ukraine during Soviet days.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 Mar 2010 03:08

Desperate step? Govt OKs 2000cr more for Scorpenes

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Mar 2010 03:43

VinodTK wrote:Desperate step? Govt OKs 2000cr more for Scorpenes

The Cabinet Committee on Security has given the formal nod to pay around Rs 2,000 crore more to French company DCNS\Armaris to get MPM (MDL procured material) packages for the submarines. These are crucial since they include all major systems connected with sensors, propulsion and the like for the vessels.

Are we to understand that "India" did not consider all these "crucial" when they signed the deal?

Amazing.

Adm K, now this. IN is great, and yet makes humongous mistakes?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 07 Mar 2010 05:16

India is an easy target for price gouging.

This is because people negotiating these deals are incompetent and the MMS govt is a push over.

John · Post by **John** » 07 Mar 2010 05:31

Scorpene program is a mess if IN needed SSKs ASAP why build them here why not order first three to be built in France with the rest by MDL. Even the decision to go with Scorpene was big question mark, IN should have chosen U-214 and have hired Hyundai (has built 3 for Korean navy) assist MDL in building them locally.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 07 Mar 2010 08:29

NRao wrote:
VinodTK wrote:Desperate step? Govt OKs 2000cr more for Scorpenes

The Cabinet Committee on Security has given the formal nod to pay around Rs 2,000 crore more to French company DCNS\Armaris to get MPM (MDL procured material) packages for the submarines. These are crucial since they include all major systems connected with sensors, propulsion and the like for the vessels.

Are we to understand that "India" did not consider all these "crucial" when they signed the deal?

Amazing.

Adm K, now this. IN is great, and yet makes humongous mistakes?

How many defence deals are oked by the IN. Do you think IN would have over looked such issues?

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Mar 2010 08:37

John wrote:Scorpene program is a mess if IN needed SSKs ASAP why build them here why not order first three to be built in France with the rest by MDL. Even the decision to go with Scorpene was big question mark, IN should have chosen U-214 and have hired Hyundai (has built 3 for Korean navy) assist MDL in building them locally.

How do you know if it was IN who insisted that they be built here ? IN is infact facing flak for insisting that Talwars be built in Russia as the former is of the view that deliveries might be delayed if built in India .

U-214 !

Despite knowing that the 'family' bungled up big time with U-209s and the Bofors ? IA still has no ARTY and I doubt if they will get any if they insist on Bofors , I shudder to think what would have happened if IN too would have insisted upon the U-214 specially when we heard about teething issues with the sub in service with the Greeks a couple of years back.