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amit
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by amit »

The objectional statement did come across as a response to Shivji posts.
Two wrongs don't make one right. In all his piskological experiments Shiv did not recourse to such wonderful use of adjectives, did he? Logical arguments should be met with logical arugments, na?

Anyway last post from me on this. I agree with Neela, it's time to move on.

And Oh by the way the original post, which prompted Shiv's response is right there on the first post of this page. That's where I saw it. I guess it pays to read other folks posts before rushing in to post. But then if Wishes were Horses...

Edited: fixed some typos.
Last edited by amit on 05 Mar 2010 15:09, edited 2 times in total.
Sanku
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Sanku »

amit wrote:
The objectional statement did come across as a response to Shivji posts.
Two wrongs don't make one right. In all his piskological experiments Shiv did not recourse to such wonderful use of adjectives, did he? Logical arguments should be met with logical arugments, na?
No, what I am saying is that Shivji plays his piskological games; the others dutifully pick up the thoughts (since Shivji is widely respected and also expected to be doing the right thing) and run in with their comments and end up getting ambushed with IEDs.

Shivji has high reputation; he is should not be tempting lesser beings into roadside IEDs.

Finally, Shiv ji has always had original thoughts and perspectives and he pushes those discussion quite irrespective of the discussion on the thread at moment (please note this is a commendation and not a knock) bringing new ideas. Rarely Shivji reacts; he mostly causes others to react.

Enough OT now.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Raja Ram »

shiv wrote:
Pranav wrote: Sage words. But who is going to do the long-term planning? Rentier whores with swiss bank accounts, propped up by EVMs?

The US is bad for India
Pakistanis are bad for India
Indians are bad for India

Do you have a choice? Or a solution?
By the same "simplified logic" sub routine we can also have:

The PM and GOI administration of day knows best
All those who critique this are frustrated hindutva fundamentalists who are angry that their favorite party is not in power
People who critique GOI's subserving national interests to larger geo political goals of a superpower are not realists and/or not smart enough as distinguished PM and UPA supremo

:mrgreen: :roll:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by kumarn »

All those who critique this call names are frustrated hindutva fundamentalists pick your own epithets :D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

With regard to Kartik's point-about production rates for the LCA,only 8 per year,max 12 according to HAL sources,the comparison I gave about the P-8/737 being produced at the rate of one per day (!) was only to show how far behind we are production wise,even with licensed manufacture.Now if we can only build 120 aircraft maximum in 10 years,it stands to reason that the aircraft will rapidly become obsolete when compared with other aircraft being developed and built by global majors.This is the great fear of the IAF,that the LCA-already late by a decade and still without a suitable engine will rapidly diminish in relevance as the years go by.From all the avialable data,what happened to the HF-24 is going to happen to the Tejas.About 100-120 built and that will be that.As mentioned,we will by than also have a huge fleet of far superior SU-30MKIs demanding a lot of attention, and once other superior aircraft, either the MMRCA or the PAK-FA start arriving,the Tejas will not be a favourite dish on the menu, mark my words.

As stated before,the undue delay in choosing the MK-2 engine (is there a vested interest at work here because of the advantage it would give for the MMRCA contest?),either the GE or EJ+ TVC option of powerplant,is sending the future of the LCA into a tailspin.

PS:If we are really serious about the Tejas we should give it absolute top priority and take decisions on a war footing,also building up production capacity for at least 20 per year.That way about 200 can be inducted within a decade.The committment to buying 200 will then automatically boost local production/component manufacturers.These aircraft not only should be bought in large numbers but also produced as quickly as possible because we need in the words of one analyst,a "60 sqd." air force wheras we have less than 40 today.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

Raja Ram wrote: By the same "simplified logic" sub routine we can also have:

The PM and GOI administration of day knows best
All those who critique this are frustrated hindutva fundamentalists who are angry that their favorite party is not in power
People who critique GOI's subserving national interests to larger geo political goals of a superpower are not realists and/or not smart enough as distinguished PM and UPA supremo
Absolutely true. I am glad you decided to post one counter argument to the usual line that I tend to see here. Like I said the usual line has its supporters and your alternative take does not have too many supporters on the forum although they do abound in other circles.

That the "PM and GoI know best" is the feeling that is held (in my estimate) at least 75% of India's population. The figure is a guess and the very elite who are roundly thrashed in these fora are lone group who are exceptional among Indians in having people who hold the view that "Perhaps the GoI and India do not know best". But that elite really should also understand the meaning of "differences of opinion" and "civility in discourse"

I will not comment on the "hindutva fundamentalst" part because I am just enjoying a private joke and bet with myself on hearing mention of that. It is OT.

But could the actions of the GoI actually be realpolitik? Words like "realist", "realpolitik"and "Chankian" are loaded with innuendo as is the famous line from Mario Puzo's "The Godfather" - "Make him an offer he can't refuse" The "offer" in question of course is "either cooperate or die". It appears to me that the US has made a lot of offers that are difficult to refuse.

One of the psychological traps that is used here (I am not accusing people - I use them freely myself) is to throw words like "patriotism" and "nationalism". No Indian in his right senses is supposed to argue with a nationalist or a patriot - like the devil of Hollywood runs away on seeing a cross. The real world as you rightly recognised in your post is a lot more complicated than the simple "In your face" ideals of nationalism and patriotism. Those are great political buzzwords but are blown away by a power who is able to threaten your country with consequences that would make "nationalism" look like a sorry joke if it is pushed too far. And when one set of national interests are set aside for a different set of national interests do you define that as "treason" or "realpolitik"? That depends on which side of the political spectrum you choose to take. To go back to an earlier example, when PVNR postponed India's nuclear tests under US pressure was it treason or realpolitik? When Indira Gandhi checkmated the US, created Bangladesh, but then sent back 90,000 prisoners of war was it treason or realpolitik?

If we are interested in discourse it would be a good idea to accept that there will always be people opposed to your views and if you are attempting discourse in a forum where other views exist try not to make statements that cause anger or hurt to a person with the opposing viewpoint. Using pejorative descriptions causes needless friction.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Pranav »

amit wrote:Just want a small klariphication from those who take great exception to Shiv's and Archan's posts.

If what Shiv wrote is considered thread derailment and Archan's post a flame bait, then is the original post ... considered Kosher, especially on the Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) thread? If it's not Kosher then why object only to the reaction and not the action?

This is an important point IMVVVHO. Because if the original post is found to be acceptable and not worth mentioning/objecting to, then what Archan wrote is 400 per cent true onlee.
OK, that could have been phrased in a more sober way. The post was edited later. But the intention was not to support any favorite party ... people from all parties are blackmail-able or purchasable (with power or money), to varying degrees, at the cost of national interest. And that is no great revelation for us. One has been very critical of BJP too - particularly on the issues of allowing foreign electronic media and introducing voting machinery.

Further discussion on this probably belongs to the strategic leadership thread. One will move on.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by geeth »

>>>PS:If we are really serious about the Tejas we should give it absolute top priority and take decisions on a war footing,also building up production capacity for at least 20 per year.That way about 200 can be inducted within a decade.The committment to buying 200 will then automatically boost local production/component manufacturers.These aircraft not only should be bought in large numbers but also produced as quickly as possible because we need in the words of one analyst,a "60 sqd." air force wheras we have less than 40 today.

Suppose we build up the capacity to produce 20 LCA per year..Then the initial lot of 20 LSPs will be out in a years time. What then ?? what will you do with the production staff? Unfortunately, they cannot be sent back home.

Hence the production capacity is increased gradually..when there is an order for 200 aircrafts, rest assured the production would go up to 20 or more aircrafts per year..thill then they are managing with internal resources and minimum capital investment.. No point in throwing out 2-3 year old machines annd replace them with new ones, because there are design modifications in the new series..It is basically a question of management of resources.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by UPrabhu »

Look what deranged Kuldip Nayyar has written in Paki paper

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... rism-hs-01

Sorry, if this is a wrong thread for this.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by Rahul M »

negi, why even bother ?
RayC
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by RayC »

Rahul M wrote:negi, why even bother ?
And why should he not?

He raised the issue, didn't he?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by Rahul M »

RayC wrote:
Rahul M wrote:negi, why even bother ?
And why should he not?

He raised the issue, didn't he?
because you don't seem to care about facts or data anyway. the details are there in the very first post of this page, which is your own post. chacko's article that you have quoted. you haven't even bothered to read it before quoting it ! :shock: it has also been repeated a number of times in this thread earlier.
RayC
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by RayC »

Rahul M wrote:
And why should he not?

He raised the issue, didn't he?
because you don't seem to care about facts or data anyway. the details are there in the very first post of this page, which is your own post. chacko's article that you have quoted. you haven't even bothered to read it before quoting it ! :shock: it has also been repeated a number of times in this thread earlier.
I care about facts and figure.

I don't live in a La la land.

Some do!

Please go to the GSQR link and tell me how the IA changed arbitrarily?

EDITED
Last edited by Rahul M on 09 Mar 2010 10:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: personal attack edited out.
Rahul M
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by Rahul M »

sorry for the OT post guys :

rayc, jagan asked you to stop picking fights, please comply. secondly, any complaints about me should be directed by email to the webmasters and not by reports with highly imaginative contents. jagan has also asked you to do the same. finally, any fight you want to pick with me should again be conducted through email and email alone and NOT through BRF.

I've asked you numerous times already but if you continue in the same way I'll be forced to take necessary action. your choice.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by narayana »

Please cool down guyz.... 8)

RahulM is the best moderator on BR if you ask me

and Rayc sir you are elder and a learned person with hands on experience on how Armed forces work,BR needs both of you so please let the tempers cool and make business as usual.

My Personal suggestion
RayC
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by RayC »

I am saving this post for Jagan.

<rest snipped>
Last edited by Rahul M on 09 Mar 2010 11:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: send it to him by email. do not derail this thread.
Tanaji
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Post by Tanaji »

RayC

Have you considered putting Rahul M on the ignore list?
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Juggi G »

Surya
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Surya »

Even before I dare click on it - I can think of who it is - Motorhama :mrgreen:
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Brando »

Sukhoi women ?? Disingenuous moniker!

Is sitting in a Sukhoi some great feat on their part ? Its not like they've flow it personally have they ? Typical Indian Journalist's desperate attempt to coin a phrase and claim a distinction.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Nikhil T »

Surya wrote:Even before I dare click on it - I can think of who it is - Motorhama :mrgreen:
Now, I know how to get my comments to show up. :)
Nikhil said...
Wow Suman ... Too good ...

Did you guys talk about who flew faster? I bet it was you
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

:rotfl:
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Post by sourab_c »

RamaY wrote:One should bow their head for their professionalism and ultimate sacrifice of these soldiers, in most unfavorable conditions. Their brothers-in-arms were killed in the fight and the people were taking the terrorists in processions :evil:
The militants clearly had the support of the locals and then the Indian Army came and crashed their party. At the end they saw their "muslim brothers" die and their homes destroyed.

The result? They are now pissed off at the army and want freedom!

All over the world, from Philippines, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Britain and US, all they want is FREEDOM!
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Post by Brando »

Residents look at destroyed residential houses after a gunbattle in Dadsar village, some 37 kilometers (23 miles) south of Srinagar, India, Friday, March 5, 2010. Thousands of villagers shouting freedom slogans participated in the funeral procession of four guerrillas of the Hezb-ul Mujahideen outfit killed by government security forces Thursday in a 30 hour gunbattle that also killed an Indian army captain and destroyed four residential houses.

Why has the Army released the bodies of the terrorists to the villagers in the first place ? It is a massive psy-ops victory for the terrorists as they can use their corpses for propaganda. The bodies should be taken by the Army and destroyed in some unknown place. Even during the days of the Sikh insurgency, the bodies were destroyed covertly so as to prevent it from raising tensions further. They should be having processions for the Indian captain killed in the gun battle, not terrorist scum. Such processions shouldn't be allowed to take place.

Can't those who lead the procession be considered collaborators with these terrorists and be arrested ?? Interrogating them could provide more information on other potential terrorist sympathizers or cells! Intelligence services should be doing this kind of follow-up after the Army does their work. Without adequate symbols to rally around or demagogues to stir the passions of the people, the large scale protests and such cannot take place.

Letting these kind of protests and processions go on is bad PR for India, bad for the morale of the troops and bad for the future security scenario.
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Post by anupmisra »

sourab_c wrote:All over the world, from Philippines, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Britain and US, all they want is FREEDOM!
OT but, Pa'astan!? Don't they all want to go to pa'astan the land of the free? Isnt that their dream destination? Free to conduct mayhem, rape, loot, child abuse, and practice their faith as per tenets laid down in the mid seventh century?
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Post by Sriman »

JE Menon wrote:This is a pictures thread. Please end discussions/chats here. Typically, pictures and a couple of lines commentary on them by the poster is all that is required. Any discussion can be taken to another thread...
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Post by bodhi »

ok....so this is how we continue he discussion...pls refer to Pic posted by x on page # y.....post #Z from the top....Man.....Raveena's a bomb :D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Asit P »

Nikhil T wrote: Now, I know how to get my comments to show up. :)
Nikhil said...
Wow Suman ... Too good ...

Did you guys talk about who flew faster? I bet it was you
Lol. Its been ages since I last visited her pompous and self advertising block err blog.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Suman S »

Asit, Nikhil no need to make fun..isn't every blog owner indulging in self-advertising, then why blame me...I dont belong to a channel, so obviuosly if I take my blog's help for visibility whats the harm and who has asked you to visit Chindits anyways, if you find it so pompous...do I come here and comment on your shallow knowledge....commenting here and there with fake names is very easy.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Samay »

Asit P wrote:

Lol. Its been ages since I last visited her pompous and self advertising block err blog.
Me too,but she can always boast herself as a woman on sukhoi before women's reservation,nothing wrong in that
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Suman S »

Mother ****** who asked you to visit Chindits in the first place..just stick to bharat rakshak, b'cos thats where you belong..bloody losers....****** you
Last edited by archan on 11 Mar 2010 02:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: User warned. Mind your language.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by negi »

Suman S wrote:Mother ****** who asked you to visit Chindits in the first place..just stick to bharat rakshak, b'cos thats where you belong..bloody losers....****** you
:rotfl: :lol:

Hindi mein poora likh lo , english mein forum SW allow nahin karega . :P
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by munna »

Suman S wrote:Mother ****** who asked you to visit Chindits in the first place..just stick to bharat rakshak, b'cos thats where you belong..bloody losers....****** you
My name is munna and I am a loser. :((
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Samay »

Didnt knew (chind-)it was a time bomb before clicking :((
Last edited by Samay on 11 Mar 2010 02:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Shameek »

Suman S wrote:Mother ****** who asked you to visit Chindits in the first place..just stick to bharat rakshak, b'cos thats where you belong..bloody losers....****** you
Hard to get the point across without some choice expletives, isn't it. I like the subtlety used in expressing anger. I get what the first 6 '*' stand for. What do the next 6 stand for?
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by archan »

Shameek wrote: Hard to get the point across without some choice expletives, isn't it. I like the subtlety used in expressing anger. I get what the first 6 '*' stand for. What do the next 6 stand for?
French Connection UK.
Please report the posts again the next time this user decides to act smart. Zero tolerance for this kind of crap.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Shameek »

Rahul M wrote:
Shameek wrote:[EDIT] Was this not the same person who made an 'explosive' entry into BR last year?
I was away at the time. was witness to the fallout later ! :eek:
Deja Vu all over again Rahul ji. About the same time as last year. Only this time the fallout is in the Su-30 thread.
:twisted:
I am terrified and also miserable about being a loser. :((
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Chindits has been a source of a few good pictures, in many ways better than some of the members acting uber chi-chi here. If you don't like the blog and need to express your opinion, use the appropriate thread, why post off topic posts here ?? :roll:
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Suman S »

Shameek you couldn't get what it stands for b'cos your a loser in life!!
Last edited by archan on 11 Mar 2010 02:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: User warned again.
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