Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 03 Mar 2010 08:44

shravan wrote:US to share laser-guiding bomb kits with Pakistan

Unbelievable.. Excuse = War on terror.. Grrrrr

So they'll sell 'em F-16's then sell us the F-16's with AESA then sell them F-35's.. Arms both sides. Perfect!

More Grrrrrr

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Mar 2010 11:47

not a single laser guided bomb will be dropped on the taliban you can be sure of that.

its obvious who the intended target is.

no different than the sales of harpoons.

what is India's response if any?

satya · Post by **satya** » 03 Mar 2010 13:34

The purpose of business is to marketing & innovation. Marketing is creating a customer and innovation is supplying that customer with goods . US is no different , in end its money

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Mar 2010 14:09

pakis will come to grief by holding the yankee hand .... amerika ki doosti aur dushmani .. dono barbadi hai !!

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 03 Mar 2010 16:36

manjgu wrote:pakis will come to grief by holding the yankee hand .... amerika ki doosti aur dushmani .. dono barbadi hai !!

Hasn't happened yet, although kiski barbadi hogi is still unclear...

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 03 Mar 2010 19:51

The purpose of business is to marketing & innovation. Marketing is creating a customer and innovation is supplying that customer with goods . US is no different , in end its money

we know unkil's business ways are flop nowadays . Its as stupid as claiming that missile shiel in poland defends amrika from iran.

Why to arm pigs to the teeth when unkil has to leave in a couple of years and things will be back to the basics .??
Unkil knows that these things will never be used against any terrorists ,because after 2-3 yrs,no one except terrorists will reign in the afpak region!!
OTOH why to give 1000 LGBs? truly M.A.D. things amrikis are doing.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 04 Mar 2010 04:56

US raises doubt over Pak billing, withholds $400m

...............
But auditors and the Congress have questioned Pakistan's billing practice and insisted on a tighter scrutiny of the claims. US insistence that a team of auditors visit Pakistan to monitor the costs and billing led to a spat lasting months in which Islamabad denied visas to the US team and Washington withheld payment for 2008.

The issue was finally resolved some weeks back after Pakistan allowed a limited number of auditors to come in. It now turns out that Washington has cleared only $997 million, rejecting $400 million on grounds like over-billing.

But there is an alternative narrative in some quarters in Washington and New Delhi, which is that the US aid is leaving Pakistan's military budget free to be used against India.

The US has announced that it is going to deliver 1000 laser-guided MK-82 bomb kits to Pakistan to enable it "strike insurgent targets with greater precision". Washington is also slated to supply Pakistan 18 new F-16 fighter jets later this summer. Some experts feel they are largely useless in the war against terrorists and Pakistan has India-specific use for them.

N people call Indians "Chanakiyaan." Pakis seem to outsmart the Indians and the US the best

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 04 Mar 2010 05:14

Craig Alpert wrote:US raises doubt over Pak billing, withholds $400m
...............
But auditors and the Congress have questioned Pakistan's billing practice and insisted on a tighter scrutiny of the claims. US insistence that a team of auditors visit Pakistan to monitor the costs and billing led to a spat lasting months in which Islamabad denied visas to the US team and Washington withheld payment for 2008.

The issue was finally resolved some weeks back after Pakistan allowed a limited number of auditors to come in. It now turns out that Washington has cleared only $997 million, rejecting $400 million on grounds like over-billing.

But there is an alternative narrative in some quarters in Washington and New Delhi, which is that the US aid is leaving Pakistan's military budget free to be used against India.

The US has announced that it is going to deliver 1000 laser-guided MK-82 bomb kits to Pakistan to enable it "strike insurgent targets with greater precision". Washington is also slated to supply Pakistan 18 new F-16 fighter jets later this summer. Some experts feel they are largely useless in the war against terrorists and Pakistan has India-specific use for them.
N people call Indians "Chanakiyaan." Pakis seem to outsmart the Indians and the US the best

People should get it clarified.It is not porkis that are outsmarting US/India.It is US thats playing double game.It supplies all the average and above average equipment to pakis thereby pushing the indian limits to buy advanced US(only in the name

)

Sayak · Post by **Sayak** » 04 Mar 2010 06:29

What can India buy from USA to counter these kits?? I hope we announce F-16 to be the first plane rejected in the MRCA.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 04 Mar 2010 06:36

Sayak wrote:What can India buy from USA to counter these kits?? I hope we announce F-16 to be the first plane rejected in the MRCA.

In fact I hope F-16 makes the final shortlist and then gets rejected, as a slap in the face.. Not passing the 1st phase would mean it fails technical trials and would be letting them off softly..

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 04 Mar 2010 07:12

Sayak wrote:What can India buy from USA to counter these kits?? I hope we announce F-16 to be the first plane rejected in the MRCA.

Well these kits are basically LGB or Laser Guided Bombs of the Mark 80 series. The MK 82 is a 500 lb bomb, which is not really a big deal. 1000 LGBs in the PAF arsenal is nothing that is going to change the balance of power, nor is the addition of 15 F16s .

While the F16 may NOT be selected due to its relative inferiority both technically and in terms of strategic safety, other US aircraft should not be pre-judged based on the sales of military equipment to Pakistan. If you look at things logically, US equipment is very good and very sophisticated compared to most of the tech being offered by other countries. By NOT buying American weapons, India would be punishing itself technologically than the US. However, by saying this, I don't think India should over leverage itself on the Americans.

Sayak · Post by **Sayak** » 04 Mar 2010 07:27

There are much better planes and technology being offered than the block 60 F-16 one example Meteor being offered is better than anything US is offering along with many offering TOT that USA is not offering; F-16 capability is comparable to MIG-29 's already in our arsenal, we are not going to lose a technological edge by making F-16 the first one out. SH may have a chance but F-16 is out.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 04 Mar 2010 21:22

Its not about rejecting f16 ,its about rejecting amriki stuff,

The way they used to behave and have done things till now and are planning for, makes our soldiers and innocent civillians pay with their lives.
Any politician/babu who advocates their stuff over similar or better stuff from elsewhere is a traitor.
Its better never to buy american defence equipment unless it is very necessity ,.
It always motivates them to give more to the TS of pakistan.

If they dont compromise on their imperialistic adventures ,why should we compromise on our national security.??.

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 04 Mar 2010 23:06

negi wrote:Unkil at it again

US to share laser-guiding bomb kits with Pakistan

The US will deliver this month to Pakistan 1,000 sophisticated laser-guided bomb kits that would enable the government there to strike insurgent targets with more precision.

why do they need LGBs.... didnt they practice enough with dumb bombs and their solahs... in fact they simply need to place a sat phone call and the first kebabwalla who picks up in that area can be hit...

neilmurali · Post by **neilmurali** » 05 Mar 2010 00:19

it is definitely going to be used against India,at least few.But this is a lesser concern compared to the 7.5% increase in the Chinese military budget GOD knows what they might equip themselves with, bcoz handling pakistan is easier compared to China.What do you think?

neilmurali · Post by **neilmurali** » 05 Mar 2010 00:28

Sayak wrote:What can India buy from USA to counter these kits?? I hope we announce F-16 to be the first plane rejected in the MRCA.

if US gives it in charity to India then it will be a immediate decission like how pakistan is getting it within a month otherwise long decission making or excuses or will say it will cause instability or arms race and all sorts of nonsense .the US plays a dirty game.If a third world war happens it will be bcoz of the US.so forget buying anything to counter the aided weapons supplied to Pak.The US might also say that India should not be uncertain of the use of the weapons or will pamper India by saying a few good words and finally the issue is subsided

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Mar 2010 01:42

Just to re-confirm .

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN021 ... arketsNews

Pakistan is also expected to receive new F-16 fighters made by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) this spring or summer, Donley said, noting that the fighter jets would give Pakistan's air force greatly expanded capabilities in its fight against "radical elements" in the border region.

Lockheed spokeswoman Laurie Quincy said the first of the 18 F-16s ordered by Pakistan was accepted by the Pakistani government in December but was still completing preparations to be ferried to the country later this year.

Air Force spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Jeffry Glenn said the United States delivered 1,000 MK-82 500-pound bombs to Pakistan last month, and was considering additional requests for those bombs and more laser-guided tail kits.

Glenn said an initial batch of 700 GBU-12 and 300 GBU-10 Paveway laser-guided bomb kits built by Lockheed and Raytheon Co (RTN.N) would be delivered to Pakistan this month, allowing the Pakistani air force to outfit the MK-82 bombs delivered last month with sophisticated technology that allows better targeting of the weapons.

Ah so those 18 Block52 F-16's armed with SNIPER ATP and GBU-12 and GB-10 Paveway LGB bombs are for GOAT.

saip · Post by **saip** » 05 Mar 2010 05:28

Pakis to get 6 frigates from the USA?.

Looks like uncle it arming Pakis to the hilt. They seem to be getting these frigates for free. At this rate they may even get USS Ronald Regan shortly!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 05 Mar 2010 06:14

saip wrote:Pakis to get 6 frigates from the USA?.

Looks like uncle it arming Pakis to the hilt. They seem to be getting these frigates for free. At this rate they may even get USS Ronald Regan shortly!

What are they thinking?? Yes this will definitely help the war on terror.. It will help guide the terrorists to get onto Indian shores again.. This is crazy!

Srivastav · Post by **Srivastav** » 05 Mar 2010 06:23

Guys.....this doesnt mean they are gonna get the 5 frigates....Like any experienced beggar they know to ask for max and get minimum....Although they might still end up getting 2-3 and IMHO that still is perfidious on unkil's behalf.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 05 Mar 2010 06:39

saip et al:

Look at this link. Some are trying to propagate this myth that these frigates will be equipped with latest American weaponry or will be like the Australian upgrade when this is clearly not that case.

....bow-mounted Mk.13 launch systems for SM-1 Standard air defense and RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles removed. Those changes leave just torpedoes and a 76mm naval gun for offense, and the 20mm Phalanx CIWS as the ships’ main defensive weapon. Barring further contracts, the dollar amounts and lack of contractor assistance strongly suggest that McInerney is being transferred to Pakistan “as is.”

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 05 Mar 2010 06:51

Omar wrote:Some are trying to propagate this myth that these frigates will be equipped with latest American weaponry or will be like the Australian upgrade when this is clearly not that case.

Small mercies..

biswas · Post by **biswas** » 05 Mar 2010 16:04

A question:

Would Unkil cut off supplies and/or apply sanctions if TSP attacks India again?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 06 Mar 2010 01:23

Pakistan to pay $78 mn for 30 year old frigate

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will be paying the United States atleast $78 million to acquire a 30 year old Oliver Perry class frigate.

The first 30 year old frigate is expected to sail for Karachi by the end of this year as Pakistan continues to negotiate for acquiring five more Oliver Perry class frigates from the US.

Sources in Pakistan Navy told DawnNews that the 30 year old frigate, USS McInerney, was put on the US Navy’s inactivation list September last year. It will fly the Pakistani flag after retirement in September this year.

Pakistani sources said that frigate is a gift from US and will fly Pakistani flag as cost-efficient “hot-transfer” but US Defence Security Department in a notification to Congress said the frigate and its associated equipment, parts and logistical support will be worth atleast $78 millions.

This transfer would be done through the US International Programs Office and its foreign military sales department.

Once transferred to Pakistan, the ship will also join Combined Task Force aimed at fighting sea pirates in the troubled waters of the Gulf of Aden, Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.

USS McInerney’s onboard refurbishment includes anti-submarine missile defences, surface-to-surface missiles, other advance weaponry systems and with helicopter deck landing facilities

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 06 Mar 2010 01:24

US arms supply to Pak shocks India

Pentagon’s decision to supply sophisticated arms to Islamabad has come as a shock to New Delhi which now seeks Washington’s assurance to ensure that these arms will not be used against India.

As a part of US assistance to counter al-Qaida and Taliban, Pentagon reportedly has admitted supplying laser-guided ammunition, 12 surveillance drones and 18 latest model F-16 fighters. Islamabad will also receive equipment capable of converting 1,000 traditional munitions into “smart bombs” that can strike the targets with precision.

The move has prompted Defence Minister A K Antony to come out in the open. Citing India’s bitter experience of how Islamabad had used such aid against India in the past, Antony stated Washington should ensure that the latest tranche of military aid is used only for the purpose of countering al-Qaida and Taliban terrorists and not against India.

Expressing concerns over the reported US decision to supply a whole array of sophisticated laser guided bomb kits, surveillance drones and late-model F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, the defence minister said India has bitter past experiences where US arms supplied to Pakistan were used against India.

While the drones and fighter jet deals were known for some time, it is the supply of a large quantity of laser-guided ammunition, which caused the maximum worry.

Last Sunday in Pokhran, Indian Air Force demonstrated how these precision ammunition could be used in day, dusk and night for maximum destruction. The fire power demonstration was witnessed by 28 defence attaches including the US. Defence ministry officials said Antony’s expression of concerns on the basis of past experience is India’s official position, which may also be conveyed to the USA through the diplomatic channel.
India lobbied hard to convince the US for not selling such sophisticated arms to Pakistan.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 07 Mar 2010 01:40

Has anyone prepared a comparison of the air-to-air capabilities of the F-16 Blk 52 with the Su-30 MKI? Any public information gratefully received.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 Mar 2010 03:34

Pak army equipped with US weapons a serious concern: Antony

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 08 Mar 2010 05:35

Our military doctrine is purely defensive: Pakistan

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Mar 2010 13:54

Pak promotes three Rear-Admirals to Vice-Admirals,two of whom have extensive experience in sub operations.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg7_4

Three Pak Navy rear admirals promoted

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Navy on Saturday announced that its three rear admirals have been promoted to the rank of vice admirals with immediate effect. “Rear Admiral Tanveer Faiz SI (M), Rear Admiral Abbas Raza SI (M) and Rear Admiral Tayyab Ali Dogar SI (M) have been promoted to the rank of vice admiral,” according to an official statement. Vice Admiral Tanveer Faiz was commissioned in Pakistan Navy in June 1975 in the operations branch. As a junior officer, he served onboard various ships. Later, he joined the submarine service. He has held various command and staff appointments Vice Admiral Abbas Raza joined the Pakistan Navy in June 1973. He got commission in the operations branch in 1975 and won the coveted Sword of Honour. He did his staff course from the Royal Navy Staff College, Greenwich, UK. Vice Admiral Tayyab Ali Dogar was commissioned in the operations branch of the Pakistan Navy on 1 June 1976. He did his staff course from Command and Staff College, Dhaka, and earned his masters degree from the National Defence University, Islamabad. His naval career includes the command of two submarines and a submarine squadron. staff report

As for the "poorly equipped" OH Perry class FFGs,look at the upgrades that Oz has done .It is very clear that Pak plans major upgrades for these still very capable frigates,perhaps with both European and Chinese help.The US is virtually gifting these frigates to Pak which along with the PRC's Jiangwei-2 class FFGs,will dramatically increase the numbers of Pak's surface fleet.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 09 Mar 2010 07:16

Who will be the next Chief of Army Staff (COAS) in Pakistan?

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 09 Mar 2010 08:42

saip wrote:Pakis to get 6 frigates from the USA?.

Looks like uncle it arming Pakis to the hilt. They seem to be getting these frigates for free. At this rate they may even get USS Ronald Regan shortly!

Hell I hope the situation doesnt end like the late 80s.. with Pakis in control of Afghanistan, The americans(like russians) turning tail, and Pakis awash with funds and military hardware ready for more trouble... our PMs are as old as ever , and another diplomatic kick for us ...

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Mar 2010 23:00

It seems like the US is getting closer and closer to the Paki military..India needs to take a good look at what this means. Courting India while arming and also flirting with the Paki military is a dangerous tactic by the US.

Monday, March 08, 2010
By By Mazhar Tufail

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and the US Air Force (USAF) will conduct joint exercises in the US towards the end of this year and the F-16 aircraft of the PAF will participate in the manoeuvres, defence and diplomatic sources told The News here.

“The joint exercises have been planned in the wake of the quality performance of the PAF in air raids in the tribal areas as part of the war on terror as well as the recognition of its air power in South Asia,” said the source, requesting anonymity.

“The F-16 fighter jets, which are already part of the PAF fleet, will be flown to the United States for participation in the manoeuvres,” they said. The sources said a meeting would soon be held in Washington to not only finalise the schedule but also other modalities for the exercises, including the US where the exercises would be held, duration of exercises and technical details. They said 12-15 F-16 aircraft of the PAF would be flown to the US by the Pakistani pilots.

“The offer of joint exercises by the US authorities is a recognition and appreciation of the role of the Pakistan Air Force in the war on terror,” remarked one of the sources. “In the war on terror operations, the PAF pilots not only eliminated several important militant commanders in the difficult terrains like Swat, Malakand, Waziristan, etc, but also expertly destroyed the hideouts of militants, which were apparently difficult to be seen,” he pointed out.

It was also learnt that PAF chief Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman too would participate in the Pakistan-US joint exercises and would also be awarded a medal by the US government in recognition of the good performance of the PAF.

“Before the joint exercises, the PAF will also get delivery of the next batch of the F-16 aircraft from the United States,” the sources said. Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman attended the Pakistan F-16 Peace Drive-I inauguration ceremony and luncheon at the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, the manufacturers of the state-of-the-art aircraft, on October 13 last year. The ceremony was held on the company premises at Fort Worth in Texas. The contract for the supply of 18 new F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft was signed between the Pakistani and US governments on September 30, 2006.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=227753

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 10 Mar 2010 04:56

India wary of U.S. arms supply to Pakistan

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 10 Mar 2010 23:11

China fumes at US arms sale to Taiwan

Sanctions were imposed on US companies involved in the deal, and in one of a flurry of unsually strong statements condemning the American decision the Foreign Ministry said: "It will be unavoidable that co-operation between China and the United States over important international and regional issues will also be affected." Earlier it had summoned US ambassador Jon Huntsman.

The Foreign Ministry statement will add to concerns about the knock-on effects of the deal, and whether it will hinder the prospect of new sanctions against Iran at the United Nations Security Council. Despite China's reluctance to act against its ally, the US was hopeful that it could win its backing if Russia was on board. Beijing will postpone high-level consultation on strategic security, arms control and non-proliferation issues, it said. The Defence Ministry said it was suspending military exchanges because of the "harm and odious effect" of the deal.

The dispute comes amid growing tensions over issues including trade, climate change and internet censorship.

"This is the strongest reaction we have seen in recent years," said Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, North East Asia project director of the International Crisis Group.

This is not the first time chinese have shown strong reactions wrto the matters related to their national security and integrity. They were like this even before liberalization and before they had big economy , and before they had military muscle .

Why cant we reciprocate the same for our security matters, banning amriki companies from defence contracts,when they abusively give baksheesh to terrorist state of pakistan??What is stopping us,or what is missing??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2010 00:48

Is there a list of who got what awards in TSP after Jan 2009 or promoted to Lt Gen?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Mar 2010 01:18

This list is of Sept 2008, 2 months before the attack.
ISI chief, four corps commanders changed

* Ahmed Shujaa Pasha replaces Nadeem Taj as DG ISI
* Seven major generals promoted to lieutenant general

Taj has been appointed Gujranwala Corps Commander.

Lt Gen Muhammad Yousaf has been appointed Bahawalpur Corps Commander and his predecessor Lt Gen Raza Muhammad has been appointed Joint Staff Director General at the Joint Staff Headquarters.

Lt Gen Shahid Iqbal has replaced Lt Gen Ahsan Azhar Hyat as Karachi Corps Commander, while Hyat has been appointed Inspector General (IG) Training and Evaluation at the General Headquarters (GHQ).

Lt Gen Muhammad Zaki has been appointed IG Arms at GHQ and Lt Gen Javed Zia has been appointed Quarter-Master General at the GHQ.

Lt Gen Mohsin Kamal has been appointed Military Secretary at the GHQ while Lt Gen Tahir Mehmood has been appointed Rawalpindi Corps Commander. Lt Gen Muhammad Zahid has been appointed the Adjutant General at the GHQ.

Lt Gen Muhammad Mustafa has been appointed as Chief of General Staff at the GHQ. Lt Gen Tanvir Tahir has been appointed as IG Communication and IT at GHQ. Lt Gen Ayyaz Salim Rana has been appointed Chairman of the Heavy Industries Taxila in place of Lt Gen Israr Ahmad Ghumman, who will retire in November.

Promoted: Earlier, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Kayani recommended the promotion of seven major generals of the Pakistan Army to the rank of lieutenant generals.

Those promoted were Major General Tahir Mahmood (Infantry), Major General Shahid Iqbal (Infantry), Major General Tanvir Tahir (EME), Major General Zahid Hussain (Artillery), Major General Ahmad Shuja Pasha (Infantry), Major General Muhammad Mustafa Khan (Armoured Corps) and Major General Ayyaz Saleem Rana (Armoured Corps).

Major General Zahid Hussain was serving as Kakul commandant, Major General Tahir Mehmood as General Officer Commanding Special Services Group (SSG) in Cherat, Major General Shahid Iqbal was at the National Defence University and Major General Ahmad Shujaa Pasha was the Director General Military Operations (DGMO). sajjad malik/staff report

The ISPR website should have all the details. I try not to visit that site, perhaps people familiar with that site might try.

Mumbai 26/11 was probably planned during Nadeem Taj's tenure, but he was shifted out under US pressure before he could see the execution of his pet project. Then Billa-Ranga gave the go ahead for it, once Ranga came to power.

Fani_A · Post by **Fani_A** » 11 Mar 2010 04:10

USA appears to be continuing the policy of arming TSP sufficiently so that it will withstand any Indian attack for a long enough duration by which a ceasefire can be arranged. This way USA will always have a tool i.e. TSP. And USA will make money from both TSP and INDIA. Makes perfect sense for USA. All is fair in war. And USA is not even fair. INDIA has to look out for itself. Definitely should not buy a paisa's worth from USA.

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 11 Mar 2010 10:04

The last line of this article refers to Strategic Force. A quick look on Wikipedia suggests that it is responsible for "the command and employment of all land-based strategic assets." How is this different from the Strategic Plans Division under the command of Lt. Gen. Kidwai?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Mar 2010 12:37

Pakistan Tests Missiles in Arabian Sea

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/03 ... istan.html

ISLAMABAD (AP) -- Pakistan's navy successfully test-fired a series of missiles and torpedoes Friday in what it called a message to ''nefarious'' forces -- an apparent reference to longtime rival India.

While the two nuclear-armed neighbors have taken slow steps toward restarting peace talks, they also have a history of using weapons tests as a form of diplomatic saber-rattling.

...

But Friday's launches were followed by a navy statement saying: ''These successful tests are a clear message to forces having nefarious designs.''

Such statements have been rare in recent years, as the two nations have struggled to keep their peace process limping along.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 13 Mar 2010 02:01

^^^
Will make it a total of 11 bombings in pakistan today All carried out by members of the same family

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_wTe5Us-L8