Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

[vishal]

Some details about the Lahore blast

. . . at least 600-kilogram explosives have been used in the blast. While, Bomb Disposal Squad said the explosives were 800 kilograms.

The material are being said to be the C4, which is the most horrible among explosives.

I am not a demolitions expert, far from it, but 600 (600!!!) kg of C4 does not reconcile with the body count.

[kenop]

Kiyani is either in the US or about to embark on a trip to the US.
That may explain the capture of an important AQ asset.

[amit]

While on the topic of the IED Mubarak in Lahore, I'd like to point out an interesting Praveen Swami Tweet posted on Page 12 by Hari ji which seems to have fallen under the radar here.

Inside Abdul Khwaja’s failed war against India

In July 2007, Khwaja is claimed to have told police, Shahid was asked to lie low by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate — perhaps in response to Indian and international pressure. Heated arguments followed. Samad arrived in Karachi at the end of August to discuss the issue. Both men were killed on their way back from fugitive Gujarat jihadist cleric Mufti Sufiyan Patangia’s Karachi home — an assassination widely attributed to India’s Research and Analysis Wing.

What I find interesting in this paragraph is that clearly these two guys, Shahid and Samad, were ISI assets. And unlike the mango Pakjabi terrorists who are a dime a dozen, these were hard to come by assets - Indian Muslim terrorists, one reason why Shahid was asked to lie low by ISI. Despite that they get sent to enjoy their raisins, and that too in Karachi, allegedly by RAW.

Surely they were not left to wander around on their own in Karachi, especially on their way back from a meeting where most certainly some ISI handlers were present? Yet despite that they were bumped off. Now that appears to my untrained eyes a pretty sophisticated operation, if at all it was carried out by RAW.

Now I know the consensus here is that India has no covert capabilities in Papisthan and this present govt is too weak to organise one. But, if this piece of news is true - and the author is not known to indulge in kite flying - then doesn't that paint a different picture?

The other two points on this article are:

HYDERABAD: Early in January, a swarthy young man handed over a spanking new Pakistani passport identifying him as Karachi resident Mohammad Farhan to an immigration officer at Sri Lanka’s Bandaranaike airport.

Just a few taps on the keyboard later, though, the immigration officer knew the man Sri Lankan authorities had been watching out for had arrived. Hours later, Sheikh Abdul Khwaja was put on a special aircraft to Hyderabad.

Again the conventional wisdom is that the Sri Lankans have grown close to the Pakis and their mentor China, especially after the LTTE mop up and unimaginative foreign policy by India. Yet, a wanted man was bundled into a plane and sent to Hyderabad within a few hours of being caught? What gives?

Khwaja’s story, police say, makes clear that international pressure on jihadist groups, particularly in Bangladesh, has begun to tell on their operational capabilities. It also makes clear, though, that new plans are under way.

It also seems that India is being able to get through to Bangladesh with Sheikh Hasina in charge. The investment in the Awami League and the recent investments in Bangladesh seem to be paying off?

These bits of information provided by Praveen Swami, coupled with the recent moves with Saudis which have resulted in so much khujli among the Pakis plus Hoolbrooke's downhill skiing on the Kabul blast statement, seem to indicate that there may be more depth to India's strategy vis a vis the Pakis than may be apparent, reading the comments being posted here?

JMT

[Airavat]

Seeratun Nabi conference

Maulana Sami ul Haq said the country once again needed freedom as the coward rulers had surrendered before the anti-Islamic forces without a struggle. He said that thousands of TV channels and newspapers in the world were tarnishing the image of Islam, a religion of peace, and were busy in negative propaganda against it.

The conference was also addressed by Pir Saif Ullah Khalid, Maulana Abdul Rauf Khan, Maulana Ahmed Ludhiyanvi, Syed Rahil Shah, and Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi. At the end, the conference condemned the [sectarian] incidents of Faisalabad and prayed for the unity of Muslim Ummah besides paying respect to each others’ rights. Moreover, it also demanded the Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif to take notice of the tragic incidents of Faisalabad.

[kumarn]

These bits of information provided by Praveen Swami, coupled with the recent moves with Saudis which have resulted in so much khujli among the Pakis plus Hoolbrooke's downhill skiing on the Kabul blast statement, seem to indicate that there may be more depth to India's strategy vis a vis the Pakis than may be apparent, reading the comments being posted here?

JMT

There are mere allegations. But GOI and the PM selling out is based on hard facts.

[SSridhar]

Seeratun Nabi conference

Maulana Sami ul Haq said . . . newspapers in the world were tarnishing the image of Islam and were busy in negative propaganda against it.

Now. . .now. . .Maulana Sandwich cannot talk about tarnishing image of Islam, can he ?

[Kati]

From Yawn ....

Witnesses said that the FIA has completely collapsed and a number of people are still buried under the rubble.

The DCO added that around 70 people were present at the FIA building at the time of the explosion.

So the boundaries and sixers were used ....

Did the Friday Express arrived too early,or a little late?

No, muslims can't do this to muslims.... So must be RAW....

If that's the case then 'Pune ka badlaa'.

[amit]

These bits of information provided by Praveen Swami, coupled with the recent moves with Saudis which have resulted in so much khujli among the Pakis plus Hoolbrooke's downhill skiing on the Kabul blast statement, seem to indicate that there may be more depth to India's strategy vis a vis the Pakis than may be apparent, reading the comments being posted here?

JMT

There are mere allegations. But GOI and the PM selling out is based on hard facts.

So the fact that Sri Lanka handed over the terrorist and that two top Indian terrorists were shot dead in Karachi are mere allegations? By whom Praveen Swami? Is he a stooge of MMS?

And GoI and the PM selling out is a hard fact, says who? You?

Do note goofing up on foreign policy - aka SES - or being soft on Pakistan or even appearing direction less, or even a lack of strategic vision, is not akin to selling out.

This is the meaning of sell out: to betray (an associate, one's country, a cause, etc.); turn traitor. (Dictionary.com)

Please bring down the rhetoric metre a bit. Then we can have a proper discussion.

I was not trying to justify MMS' foreign policy. I was merely pointing out some factoids written by a highly respected journalist and trying to understand what that means vis a vis India's handling of the Pakistan problem.

[kenop]

Pak concerned about India's "massive millitarisation"

Pakistan has rejected India’s concerns regarding the sophisticated armaments being provided to it by the United States, saying the country’s military doctrine is purely defensive in nature.

Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit instead blamed India of ‘massive militarisation’ describing it as a threat for the region.

"It is India’s dangerous military doctrines and massive militarisation that are matters of huge concern for regional stability whereas Pakistan has always acted to protect its legitimate security interests. Our military doctrine is purely defensive in nature,” The News quoted Basit, as saying.

[Sanku]

These bits of information provided by Praveen Swami, coupled with the recent moves with Saudis which have resulted in so much khujli among the Pakis plus Hoolbrooke's downhill skiing on the Kabul blast statement, seem to indicate that there may be more depth to India's strategy vis a vis the Pakis than may be apparent, reading the comments being posted here?

JMT

There are mere allegations. But GOI and the PM selling out is based on hard facts.

Response here

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 63#p835463

Amit; kumarn is your kindred spirit, he is trying to be sarcastic (on folks like me)

[amit]

Response here

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 63#p835463

Amit; kumarn is your kindred spirit, he is trying to be sarcastic (on folks like me)

Dear me Sanku!

I'm never sarcastic, I don't have the depth of knowledge or the sense of humour to be able to be sarcastic! You see I didn't even understand Kumarn's sarcasm which you so easily caught!

[shiv]

With 2 million guns in Pakistan, army can never hope to contain an 'armed mass movment'.

er I have a cite for 15 mllion guns,,,

[anupmisra]

Davis Cup team will not go to Pakistan

Tennis New Zealand says the Davis Cup team will not play in Pakistan in July due to security concerns

Surely a conspiracy.

New Zealand last played Pakistan in 2004 and lost 4-1, a result which sent New Zealand to its current lowly position in Asia Oceania group two.

[Gagan]

amit,
good post there. But also add, that several dozen pakistani trained terrorists, handlers, ISI operatives, sleeper cells were repatriated from neighbouring Nepal the last few years. Now conventional wisdom suggests that Nepal is moving into the chinese camp.

Also if we recall, the UAE has taken steps to hand over some of Dawood bhai's chaps from their country to India.

Two targets of the MMS's Saudi Arabia visit are:
1. Extradition treaty to bring back to India, several Indian Mujahedeen and Pakistani suspects, involved in terrorist activities in India, deported and sent back to India.
2. A crackdown on terror financing that originates from the Middle east, mainly KSA, UAE etc. Initiatives that GoI has recently announced.

Karachi has always been RAW's playground, just the same as Lahore. I don't believe the story that India's assets within Pakistan were irreparably damaged by IK Gujral, and as we've seen things are happening.

The current blasts are probably the TTP / Taliban groups venting their anger at the recent Pakistani arrests because of Kiyani's Washington visit. Notice the taliban are expressing their 'Anger' and taking out the FIA, Police, and not the Pak Fauj.

Touching the Pak Fauj will make it personal.

[anupmisra]

Foreign Hand

Denouncing today’s car bomb blast in Lahore, the interior minister urged India to hold talks with Pakistan if the former claims to be a peace loving country.If not? Then What?

And the catch all "certificate of merit" phrase:

Those, who are destabilizing the country, are hired assassins because the Muslims could not be involved in such terrorist activities, he said.“Foreign agents are involved in acts of terrorism taking place in Pakistan.”

[anupmisra]

Porkis are worried
Singh’s SA visit worries Pakistanis

Their apprehension is that the Saudi policy may tilt towards India instead of Pakistan.

According to him (Pakistan’s Ambassador), Singh’s visit got so much importance because an Indian prime minister was there after a gap of 28 years.

Instead of the monthly visits for alms by the porki PM and Prez.

[A_Gupta]

From Yawn ....
No, muslims can't do this to muslims.... So must be RAW....

If that's the case then 'Pune ka badlaa'.

Yawn says:

LAHORE: A spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban's main umbrella faction, Tehreek-e-Taliban, claimed the group was responsible Monday for a suicide blast that killed 12 people in Lahore.

“We claim responsibility for the Lahore blast. We will continue such attacks in future,” Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman Azam Tariq told two AFP reporters in telephone calls from an undisclosed location.

“The attack was to avenge (US) drone attacks and (Pakistani) military operations in the tribal areas. We will carry on such attacks as long as drone strikes and operations continue.”

A car bomb explosion killed 12 people and injured 81 others near the FIA and the Special Investigative Agency buildings in Model Town, Lahore on Monday.

[A_Gupta]

Inside Abdul Khwaja’s failed war against India

Maybe I'm reading the story wrong, but seems to me that all the actions mentioned have been against Indian-born jihadis.

[Gagan]

Capital Talk with Hamid Mir: Discussing Masla-e-Kashmir, MMS's Saudi Arabia visit.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-bKLZ23RaA
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKk-rH_sXlg
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg_YvJy6EXM Prem Shankar Jha spills the beans on the Mushy-MMS plan.
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWqBLFElBo
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B5c0rfnh38

[amit]

Inside Abdul Khwaja’s failed war against India

Maybe I'm reading the story wrong, but seems to me that all the actions mentioned have been against Indian-born jihadis.

Certainly. The point is if the report is true it indicates significant covert capabilities. Remember these were ISI assets and inside an ISI stronghold .

[amit]

amit,
good post there. But also add, that several dozen pakistani trained terrorists, handlers, ISI operatives, sleeper cells were repatriated from neighbouring Nepal the last few years. Now conventional wisdom suggests that Nepal is moving into the chinese camp.

Also if we recall, the UAE has taken steps to hand over some of Dawood bhai's chaps from their country to India.

Two targets of the MMS's Saudi Arabia visit are:
1. Extradition treaty to bring back to India, several Indian Mujahedeen and Pakistani suspects, involved in terrorist activities in India, deported and sent back to India.
2. A crackdown on terror financing that originates from the Middle east, mainly KSA, UAE etc. Initiatives that GoI has recently announced.

Karachi has always been RAW's playground, just the same as Lahore. I don't believe the story that India's assets within Pakistan were irreparably damaged by IK Gujral, and as we've seen things are happening.

The current blasts are probably the TTP / Taliban groups venting their anger at the recent Pakistani arrests because of Kiyani's Washington visit. Notice the taliban are expressing their 'Anger' and taking out the FIA, Police, and not the Pak Fauj.

Touching the Pak Fauj will make it personal.

Gagan I totally agree with your assessment. I think the key takeaway from this - if we are reading the tea leaves correctly - is that our policy against the Porkis is not as clueless or unidimensional as we think. I would add the deliberate build up on dams in Kashmir. That's one issue giving them immense khujli.
JMT

[Sanku]

Maybe I'm reading the story wrong, but seems to me that all the actions mentioned have been against Indian-born jihadis.

Certainly. The point is if the report is true it indicates significant covert capabilities. Remember these were ISI assets and inside an ISI stronghold .

But still fairly small fry, the hurt has to go to enough high profile targets who feed anti-India actions.

I would not make a statement on whether significant covert ability exists today or not, but clearly if it does it is still being not put to use in a way that would really really worry the Pakistani's

I would like Indian capabilities to be such that Pakistan are scared of naming even the top operators for Afg ops/Kashmir ops/Pune Ops in within ISI headquarters. They should worry that if they discussing naming anyone as head of whatever; he will be bumped off.

We should be able to punish in a targeted manner and punish hard.

[kenop]

One a recently telecast program on a channel GP and Ajit Doval mentioned with a teen-coynesss that there are things that can be done and are being done. Added that it is not possible to say anything more on TV (I think both said something like this).

[Rudradev]

While on the topic of the IED Mubarak in Lahore, I'd like to point out an interesting Praveen Swami Tweet posted on Page 12 by Hari ji which seems to have fallen under the radar here.

Inside Abdul Khwaja’s failed war against India

...
These bits of information provided by Praveen Swami, coupled with the recent moves with Saudis which have resulted in so much khujli among the Pakis plus Hoolbrooke's downhill skiing on the Kabul blast statement, seem to indicate that there may be more depth to India's strategy vis a vis the Pakis than may be apparent, reading the comments being posted here?

JMT

Readers would do well to note the "journalist" whose speculation is the basis for touting MMS' triumphs as a leader (and non-sellout) in the post above.

It is Praveen Swami. Not known for mere "kite flying", but for deliberately slandering the MMS-Maino cabal's political opponents as part of the regime's character assassination brigade.

Such as this front page article in The Hindu following the Pune blasts, suggesting in the author's well-honed techniques of insinuation that "Hindutva terrorists" could have been responsible for the attack. Conveniently so, for an MMS regime that determined to press ahead with crystallizing the Sharm-el-Shaikh agenda regardless of that attack.

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 109312.ece

So it's not very convincing when a post about the MMS regime's "effectiveness in covert warfare" quotes the speculation of a well established shill as "reinforcement" for its own speculation.

But then the MMS regime has little other than solipsisms to hide behind at this point.

[Hari Seldon]

^^^ FWIW, the former intell agency types are all vehement in their assertions that GOI is sitting on its haunches doing zilch in retaliation. Sure, what would they know and why wouldn't sarkar use them to spread useful misinformation of need be.

Here's Joginder Singh in the Pionner

It is a well-known and well-established fact that given the impossible-to-meet standards of proof required for convictions in a court of law, rare is the terrorist who has been convicted under the law. The only option left is to repay terrorists in their own coin and with compounded interest.{hear, hear!}

Covert counter-terrorism operations are integral to the undeclared policy of all countries. India’s record of covert operations has been colourless or nil.

Instead of fighting or acting against terrorism, we have been reacting to it. We have never bothered to ensure that terrorists get the retribution they deserve. Terrorism is not going to end because of sweet talk at any level.

The Prime Minister has admitted that the Government does not know whom to talk to in Pakistan as there are many power centres and nobody knows who is in control of that country. Theoretically there is a civilian Government in Pakistan, but in practice, power and authority are not vested in this Government. Hence the dilemma of the Prime Minister. Our self-respect demands that we should stop begging Pakistan to put an end to cross-border terrorism. Instead our message, through deed and not word, should be: “Do your worst, but do not blame us for the consequences.”

We should mean business in tackling terrorism and the war against terror to its logical conclusion. Our security forces and and intelligence agencies can do it, provided the Government wills it and means it. To win this war the Government will have to stand firm. {IOW, gubmint ain't standing firm presently?}

[Johann]

The trick is not to "hit" but to create a mass movement which will drive out rapes and turn Pakistan into international pariah like "North Korea". The only answer which i can think of, is turning the taliban movement into "land for peasants" movement. With 2 million guns in Pakistan, army can never hope to contain an 'armed mass movment'.

There's no question that this was one of the factors that forced the PA to re-take Swat when it did. The TNSM/Pakiban's decision to recast itself as a rural social justice movement that traded support against landlords for support against the state/PA scared the hell out of them.

However it seems like the majority of the urban population in Swat was much more equivocal about the Pakiban. They've been angry for a long time about the financial impact on tourism, the attacks on businesses involved in selling movies and music, the attacks on girls schools, etc, etc.

At the same time though they're also horribly disillusioned by the Pakistani state's indifference to the creeping Talibanisation, and then to the displacement and distruction caused by the PA's ham-fisted response. After all they'd always believed that the PA existed to protect them.

More and more urban Pakistanis are going to be looking for a movement they can believe in, something that they can own, and will remain loyal to their needs and interests.

[A_Gupta]

Certainly. The point is if the report is true it indicates significant covert capabilities. Remember these were ISI assets and inside an ISI stronghold .

What I'm suggesting is that nullifying these covert capabilities may not be a priority for the ISI as long as the targets are only Indian-origin jihadis. i.e., there may be some unwritten "code of conduct" between the spy agencies. The important question is what happens if RAW hits a Pakistani jihadi.

[A_Gupta]

One more observation, from Najam Sethi's stuff - and building on the observation that Pakistan does not have anything positive to give to India only a negative, which is it can stop being a nuisance. This means that the strength of Pakistan's negotiating position is determined mostly by India. If India decides that it can live with the Paki nuisance indefinitely, Pakistan has zero bargaining position.

[Gagan]

The point to note here wrt the Najam Sethi stuff.

1. That is the reality that pakistan's intelligentsia understand and accept. The politicians and the army wallahs understand and accept it.

2. But do they act on it?
The answer is a Big NO.
Will they act on it and give up hostility towards India?
Again, a big NO.

3. If they end enmity towards India, what will be the need for the Pak army cornering a huge chunk of the GDP there? Please note that the pakistan army takes off not just the military budget, but also the development budget, because the pak fauj has diversified into business projects, land ownership, housing projects etc etc. Pak fauj (Army / Airforce / Navy) owned businesses are the largest group on the Karachi Stock Exchange.

4. What will they do with the Jihadi groups and the armed army of abduls, who have been taught the poison of killing the kafirs? This army has to be allowed to spend its collected energy somewhere. What of the political aspirations of the Jihadi leaders hain ji? Will Hafiz Mo Sayeed melt away from the limelight peacefully should the kashmir issue be settled?
The answer is that as long as these issues remain unresolved, as long as the issues remain intractable, these guys have a life, and the gravy train in pakistan keeps running.

So the bottom line is that these issues are intractable, because Pakistan itself does not want these issues to be resolved. The stakeholders in pakistan have too much to lose with piss and tranquility.

So given these ground realities, what do the janta here suggest we do?

My solution is to give them a long rope, and keep them engaged in the aman-talks tamasha. Keep pulling out one rabbit out of the hat after the other, some smiling rabbits, some angry rabbits. They know that the tamasha is going on, and they huff and puff about it. But they understand that the tamasha is good for them and good for us.

What I recommend we need to be doing more is to apply Newton's third law with compounded interest as Joginder Singh suggests, each time. They should understand, that as long as the tamasha goes on everything is fine, but they step out of line, they get the punishment for that.

Don't hold your breath on any solutions.

Simple.

[mraghu]

if you carefully observe at the answers given by the RAPE Sethi, He repeatdely stresses that Dialogue can change the status quo. Does that mean a signal has been given by MMS and SSM that stopping the terror can enable them to give some H&D to the pakis on items like Siachen, Sir Creek, etc...

[arun]

After something like a 3 week hiatus the National Bird of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan pays a visit:

Pakistan officials say US missile strike kills 3

[Amber G.]

On Pak Technology front:
Ban on import of used computers under study

[Amber G.]

Bird Eye view of a National Bird of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

(Pakis under fire gave themselves away when, they accidentally detonated an IED they were trying to set up. The pilot's instructions were to target the second man in the group.)

[ramana]

amit, Its not useful to speculate on how Paki terrorists meet their fate as it will only add to self goals.

If you want to continue please do so in other threads. I already said a few pages ago that extraneous posts in TSP threads will not be acceptable.

Thanks for the cooperation, ramana

[ramana]

Pakis on Twitter saying it was an FIA safe house that got hit. Did the attackers have advance info on who would be in the safe house? Would be interesting to know if there was a specific target or they just blew up the building because it housed an FIA facility. They certainly packed enough explosives to bring the whole place down.

Could it be it housed the good Taliban that TSP doesn't want to hand over to US or Afghainstan? If so they can say folks killed in the blast.

[Prasad]

The amount of explosives seems really high. 600 kgs of explosives would have created a massive dhamaka! How did they transport so much. Its more than half a ton!

[Rangudu]

Could it be it housed the good Taliban that TSP doesn't want to hand over to US or Afghainstan? If so they can say folks killed in the blast.

Ramana - FIA Lahore also had a role in holding Headley connected LeT/TSPA people.

[shaardula]

this is prolly worth asking. i dont know the/a answer.

in any talk with TSP, what is it exactly that the TSP is bringing to the table ?. other than a sense of manufactured grievance and a posture of threat/terror and a history of brute behavior?

if talks with TSP are about give and take, what is it that TSP is going to give?

no i am earnest in asking this question, if TSP gives up terror, and concentrates on the people it already has under governance, who is going to benefit? the 16-17 crore people already under pakistani rule one would guess. but they are not bringing any statistics of a proven superior governance to the table are they?

TSP's anxiety is not about TSP people, it is about the kings who govern. i.e., not the people but the kings. they want assurance from india that their kings will not be troubled.

[Gagan]

The amount of explosives seems really high. 600 kgs of explosives would have created a massive dhamaka! How did they transport so much. Its more than half a ton!

On a little truck / SUV

[Gagan]

in any talk with TSP, what is it exactly that the TSP is bringing to the table ?.

if talks with TSP are about give and take, what is it that TSP is going to give?

I suppose the pakistanis would offer to end / suspend terrorism.

But GoI is not biting that bait, and says that stop terror THEN we'll talk. This leaves TSP with nothing to offer. They have no cards left, they have no leverage.

This is the whole issue.

One can't awake a person who's not sleeping. One can't talk to a person who does not want to be reasonable. Pakistan Army does not want these issues to go away. They styme any and every efforts towards negotiations, with terrorist attacks, suitably timed to kill any such efforts.

The Pakistan army is the entity that will lose out if any form of peace or settlement occurs.