Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

RamaP · Post by **RamaP** » 14 Mar 2010 06:50

Fidel Guevara wrote:
Samay wrote:
promoting a rabid piglet is not advisory !!

hazrat ZZH should be confined to benis(enquilabi) dhaga only,if he is allowed..
ZH as the next Bin Laden? He has the mindset and the flair, the oratory, and possibly the desire. He does not have the billion $ empire of the BinLaden Group though, so he will need to raise funds to get there. Once he starts doing that, the National Bird of Pakhanastan sheds a dropping onto his house.

Also, if his speeches keeps Pakis blaming the "Indian hand", he is only keeping them from seeing the true light. And the merry people of the TTP can continue doing God's work. What's wrong with that?

If ZH can keep the blinkers on the Paki middle-class for a few more years, he has served a noble purpose, and all jingos should applaud him for this!

Fidel ji, The original ZH is definitely doing a great job by captivating with elite abdul with his speeches. He is almost as delusional,if not more than Hitler who was convinced about his 1000 year Reich despite the Soviets advancing to Berlin itself. However, if we understand the root cause of why the elite dogs of TSP are barking against India, we can clearly see that the elite (Feudal lords/landlords/Whisky drinking Generals/Officer cadre/Pakjabi big shots of Lahore or Isloo) wants to keep the attention of common abdul(dirt poor guy living in shanties/the aam pandu or the jawan of TSPA) focused on India. TSP is almost similar to North Korea in many ways. In NK, People follow and worship the Kim Il Sung dynasty almost like a cult. In case of TSP, the elite are not worshipped by the common abdul, instead the common abdul has been programmed to hate India in an almost obsessive way.

IMO,What is desperately needed at the moment is a TTP version of ZH or a Mullah FM who can do a national broadcast on his radio. One who can spew venom against the elite and their amassed wealth and properties. A TTP version of ZH could say things like elites are corrupting the idea of TSP, they are not pure enough to live in TSP and so on. TTP guys can't do the propaganda at this moment because they are too busy blowing things up. Besides, people won't listen to the sermons of guys who pack explosives and blow people to red haze. A TTP version of ZH would play the role of propaganda minister. Doing IED mubaraks on a regular basis does help the TTP in instilling fear and pushing TSP towards becoming a land of purest. However, IMO TTP needs a politician, a mullah or an Ayatollah Khomeini who will lead the common abduls towards an Islamic revolution.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2010 07:05

I believe that Zaid Hamid is a mouthpiece for the Pakistani army. Since he speaks fast Urdu I find it difficult to listen to him for more than 15 seconds, but the talk is the same.

I think he is an idiot who is pushing idiotic views. He is a full blown RAPE being made to put up an act to show that he and his applauding audiences make up all of Pakistan. Nothing could be further from the truth. Like many other things Paki Zaid Hamid exists to paint a particular picture of of Pakistan that will have no effect on what Pakistan really is or really can do.

It appears that a lot of people (on here) get kicks out of his videos. I suppose that is their prerogative. The last time I watched a full Zaid Hamid video was over a year ago and I have never clicked on the numerous links after that. On BRF - at best he caters to a small audience of people who can understand his Urdu. IF Zaid Hamid had been speaking Malayalam - at least a few members would have asked for translations. The lack of interest indicates to me that nobody is bothered. In that sense Samay is right - the glee with which Zaid Hamid's speeches are linked on here does not seem to me to correspond to either his importance or popularity in the scheme of things in Pakistan. He is a diversion - and a weak one at that. Paying attention to him can only reconfirm a well known fact - there is hatred for India and Hindus in Pakistan. But we do not need a thousand links to Zaid Hamid for just that information.

I find it easy to scroll down the BR posts list in the morning by ignoring all links to Hamid and LOL/ROTFL posts referring to those links. He teaches me nothing new about Pakistan and will be able to bring no new revolution to Pakistan by making fiery speeches of hatred. Comparing him with Hitler is silly. The hate is the same - but Hitler was intelligent. Zaid Hamid is a retard.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 14 Mar 2010 07:07

FM invited to S. Arabia for briefing on Indian PM’s visit

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -visit-430

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said on Saturday he had been invited by his Saudi counterpart to Riyadh for taking him into confidence about the recent visit by the Indian prime minister to Saudi Arabia.

...

In reply to a question about Indian intentions of seeking a Saudi role in resolving differences with Pakistan, the foreign minister said he thought India might not have sought it because it always discouraged a third-party involvement.

...

He said India was facing internal differences over the issue of resumption of dialogue with Pakistan. Some elements in India were opposing it because of the Mumbai attack, but a group in the media and Indian intellectuals was in favour of the talks.

...

The minister said that during the recent visit of President Hamid Karzai, Pakistan and Afghanistan had signed a joint declaration to fortify road, rail and air connectivity and upgrade the existing facilities to enhance bilateral trade to $5 billion by 2015.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 14 Mar 2010 07:09

FM skips preparatory meeting:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... e-ties-430

To the surprise of many, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who is to lead the Pakistani delegation at the talks, did not attend the meeting and preferred to spend the weekend in Multan, his hometown.

The dialogue would cover economic, defence, security and social sectors, said the statement, adding that a number of other proposals, for instance a structured dialogue process envisaging cooperation with the US to review the status of ongoing programmes and projects, would also be taken up.

The prime minister said the objective of the dialogue was to enhance people-to-people relationship so that the trust deficit between the two countries could be bridged.

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 14 Mar 2010 07:34

Requesting full reading of this piece by KS Bajpai. There are quite a few hints on assessments and thinking behind. Terror Is An Event, Peace Is A Process

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Mar 2010 07:36

RamaP wrote:TSP is almost similar to North Korea in many ways. In NK, People follow and worship the Kim Il Sung dynasty almost like a cult.

Hugely revealing about why many Indian people think India is quite similar to TSP. Just re-read substituting Kim Il Sung with Gandhi.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 14 Mar 2010 08:07

Zaid Hammad is in fact shrewd and clever. He possess undeniable skills of oratory that unthinking men may find exciting. Emotional and outraged, as are the best demagogues.

Zaid is very important. Somebody like him cannot break wind in Pakistan without sponsorship. Which is why this post nails it on the head:

However, if we understand the root cause of why the elite dogs of TSP are barking against India, we can clearly see that the elite (Feudal lords/landlords/Whisky drinking Generals/Officer cadre/Pakjabi big shots of Lahore or Isloo) wants to keep the attention of common abdul(dirt poor guy living in shanties/the aam pandu or the jawan of TSPA) focused on India.

It is called legitimacy.

Much as China needs the 10% growth rate to legitimise its CCP rule to the proletariat, the elites of Pakistan need India to legitimise their monopoly. Being a homeland for Muslims sufficed as a snub to India but that moral claim was buried in the mass graves of East Pakistan. So before the not-so-smart street abdul figures it out and tears the elite from limb to limb, new grievances need to be manufactured (water) as even the thick-skulled Kashmiri freedom fighters are weary of Pakistan's antics. New zeal has to be manufactured.

Zaid is no Hitler but he may be contrasted with Goebbels. He who perfected the "Big Lie". His audience seems wealthy and educated oft times. They should know better. Inevitably they find themselves seduced.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 14 Mar 2010 08:45

If we don't post or link Jahil Hamid here on BRF, I can assure you there is NO ONE in India who will ever come across him or watch his videos.
It is a double edged sword.
BRF TSP / BENIS threads provide him with an audience far beyond what is possible either from his TV broadcast or youtube video word of mouth spread by pakis.
What we / India gain is an unadulterated view of pakistan army and the jihadis bigoted venom spewing thought process. Make no mistake the real ugly face of Pakistan is amply demonstrated in full glory by useful idiots like Jahil Hamid. (Jahil = Uneducated). This is how the pakistanis have been indoctrinating their kids in private, Jahil Hamid brings it all out into the open. If he didn't bring it out in the open, we'd never know.

Ordinary people, busy with their lives, and even media barons in India need to be made aware of the hatred and the skulduggery being practiced by the Pakistani army, the ISI, and the Jihadis in concert. Jahil hamid is a pakistani spewing vitriolic bullshit - good for us, bad for Pakistan's image.

Give him a long rope, a mike and an adulating audience, I say.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Mar 2010 09:07

X Posted. Washington Post touches upon the role of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in proliferating nuclear weapon technology to Iran.

Citing documents provided by A.Q. Khan to Simon Henderson the Post opines that “The account also conflicts with the Pakistani government's assertion that Khan proliferated nuclear know-how without government approval.”.

Elements at the highest levels of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan were clearly complicit in the proliferation of nuclear weapon technology to Iran:

Most observers now think Khan's work for Iran was directed by "senior elements of Pakistan's military, if not by its political leaders," said Leonard S. Spector, director of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. ………………
Khan's written statement to Henderson states that after Shamkhani's arrival in Islamabad on a government plane, he told the chairman of Pakistan's Joint Chiefs of Staff committee that "he had come . . . to collect the promised nuclear bombs."

When the chairman, Adm. Iftikhar Ahmed Sirohey, proposed to discuss other matters first and then "see how Pakistan could assist the Iranians in their nuclear program," Shamkhani reportedly became irate, Khan wrote. He reminded Sirohey that "first Gen. Zia [ul Haq, the Pakistani president until 1988] and then Gen. Beg had promised assistance and nuclear weapons and he had specifically come to collect the same."

Such a transfer was theoretically feasible. Although Pakistan exploded no nuclear bombs until 1998, the U.S. intelligence community concluded it had the capability to make weapons by 1986. ……………………

Khan said that after hearing Shamkhani's demand for three finished weapons, Sirohey demurred and that other ministers backed him up. But Beg pressed then-Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and her top military aide "to honour [Beg's] . . . commitment," Khan wrote.

Under pressure, the aide asked Khan to "get components of two old (P-1) discarded machines and pack them into boxes with 2 sets of drawings," which were passed to Iran through an intermediary, he said. P-1 is the designation for the centrifuge model used in Pakistan.

Asked to comment, Sirohey said he did not recall the meeting "or ever hearing about a deal to sell nuclear weapons to Iran."

In an interview, Beg denied bartering nuclear weapons for cash. He said that when an Iranian delegation "asked me about nuclear technology" in 1988, he advised discussing it with Bhutto. .......................

Washington Post datelined March 14, 2010:

Pakistani scientist Khan describes Iranian efforts to buy nuclear bombs

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 14 Mar 2010 09:19

Zaid further helps reclaim ground lost to the TTP-which is probably the real reason how he has crawled out of the woodwork.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2010 09:26

Being fashionable in Lahore - Hindol Sengupta in The Hindu

Everyone looks good, talks smooth, smells nice.

This is the unseen Pakistan. This is the Pakistan to break every Pakistan cliché. I am here to see the city of the restless night and in Lahore, Noor Rahman, with her kohl and cocky comeback, educationist and sushi and meethi pan connoisseur, opens doors to parties that last till 10.00 a.m., and says she wants to come to Delhi.

I ask, everyone, do you party to forget? Is the runway your escape route? There is no one answer to that.

Sadaf tells me she is not sure how to react with the “Pakistan fashion defies Taliban” headlines.

The fashion week is at a venue guarded, like so many other things, like a mini fort. There are no signs on the streets or even outside the venue, nothing to suggest that anything like a fashion week is happening.

T he e-mail says, ‘Please do not disclose the venue. Please carry your pass at all times' – not for front row, for security. And days after arrival, troopers in black commando fatigues smile benevolently and follow us to and from the venue.

Is he afraid? “Everything, as you can see, has been peaceful,” he smiles. “We are not letting a small bunch of people take over our lives. We are not them. They are not us.” He gives me a hug. “We are just like you.” {says Kamiar Rokni. Those who read TFT will recognize Rokni}

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 14 Mar 2010 09:30

I heard that this ZH dude used to fight along side Ahmad Shah Masood's militia during the Afghan civil war and that he has been trying to coverup this piece of info ever since. Any one can substantiate this?
AS

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2010 09:49

LeT training Taliban for suicide missions in India
Normally, LeT are averse to blowing oneself up, OTOH they believe in 'fidayeen' attacks where one may fight to death or fight and yet live another day as a ghazi.

But thus far, India has been spared the suicide bomber - the kind that rammed into the Indian embassy in Kabul, or into the CIA tent in Khost, or even in the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad.

That could change. In a development that has raised concerns in the Indian security establishment, recent intelligence reports from Pakistan point to the Lashkar-e-Taiba now targeting Taliban militants as recruits.

Officials tracking developments in Pakistan said LeT has been training 130 Taliban militants who have surrendered to the Pakistan establishment. The training programme, being held at an "institute" in Lahore, has been going on for the past three months and is even now under way.

Officials believe these militants - who are already radicalized and motivated - could be used to do LeT's work in India and Afghanistan. This could add a whole new dimension to terror attacks in India.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Mar 2010 10:42

Zaid Hammad is in fact shrewd and clever. He possess undeniable skills of oratory that unthinking men may find exciting. Emotional and outraged, as are the best demagogues

He has no skills what so ever and he suffers from bipolar disease. He thinks of himself as a "Great leader" or "Messiah" infact he is not even worth leading local gulli danda association.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 14 Mar 2010 10:58

Blast kills Pakistani national in Afghanistan - police
KANDAHAR: A roadside bomb killed a Pakistani construction worker and wounded six of his compatriots on Sunday in Afghanistan's southern city of Kandahar, police said.
...

link

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Mar 2010 11:11

r_subramanian wrote:
Blast kills Pakistani national in Afghanistan - police
KANDAHAR: A roadside bomb killed a Pakistani construction worker and wounded six of his compatriots on Sunday in Afghanistan's southern city of Kandahar, police said.
...
link

Fact that this happened very close to the Paki consulate and is the second direct attack on Pakis( who were never targeted all these days) since the murder of 7 Indians means the game is on.

Sorry but i cant conclude anything else. Finally, are we seeing covert action wheels( which BR has been pleading for since time immortal) being set in motion?

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Mar 2010 11:17

by Sum
Finally, are we seeing covert action wheels( which BR has been pleading for since time immortal) being set in motion?

I doubt it!! we don't need covert actions at this time.. we need OVERT ACTIONS!!! next time any terrorist action happens... just line up the bofors and attack Lahore!!!

I 100% doubt if these are covert actions whatsoever!! foreign espionage and covert operations under IAS/IFS officers are unreliable and unbelievable.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Mar 2010 11:21

sum:

Of course, one never knows who is an ISI agent, but I hope RAW retaliates by taking out ISI or TSPA in mufti pig scum. Both the July 2008 attack, the attack on Indian embassy, and the recent attack masterminded by Pakis have taken out some of our elite diploats and military officers. This piddy revenge attack if it was in fact that is not even a consolation prize. But like you said, I hope game on. Let it be real equal equal.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Mar 2010 11:23

I doubt it!! we don't need covert actions at this time.. we need OVERT ACTIONS!!! next time any terrorist action happens... just line up the bofors and attack Lahore!!!

Bajwa-ji,

We all know that what you say is NEVER going to happen even if a JDAM explodes in Dilli and TSPA gives a press conference the next day staking claim for the JDAM.

So, the next best thing is to bleed the Pakis in small steps like they are doing to us now. It was these pinpricks throughout the 80s/90s(using the CIT-X and CIT-J) that irritated the Pakis no end and helped in closing the Khalistan issue.

Given that we are doing zilch to hurt Pak so far, even these small steps are certainly welcome and we can slowly up the ante as and when required ( assuming that we are actually restarting anti Pak "direct action"). Else, this whole discussion is moot.

This piddy revenge attack if it was in fact that is not even a consolation prize. But like you said, I hope game on. Let it be real equal equal.

CRS-ji,
Given that we have nearly zero capability in foreign land direct action( having frittered away all our experience of earlier), this might be just the initial testing phase with sophistication growing as we gain more "hands on knowledge". We must after all learn to walk before running ( targeting Paki big wigs).

All this is IMHO of course. It might finally turn out to be a jingo's wet dream onlee.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Mar 2010 11:33

X Posted.

Takleef in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan with Indo-Russian deal for nuclear power reactors. Editorial in The Nation:

Indo-Russian deal

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Mar 2010 11:59

by Sum

Bajwa-ji,

We all know that what you say is NEVER going to happen even if a JDAM explodes in Dilli and TSPA gives a press conference the next day staking claim for the JDAM.

I hope and wish and pray that our intelligence agencies have become good enough to daily explode such (100 a day is my wish) bombs all over naPakistan., but going by our past record (the history buff that I am) I think that I give a very very slim chances that we are responsible for any whatsoever bombings or killings in napakistan. History says that we just too incompetent to take such actions!!!! I wish that our PM had given them 30 days notice after which to declare an overt war with napakistan. I will be glad if I am prooven otherwise!!! Let's wait and watch.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2010 12:10

Phoney Pilots of Pakistan

This is a compilation of all that is wrong with Pakistan.

The plane of our state has been piloted by grossly inept phony pilots, who by deceit and sometimes with the help of the Brigade 111 have made the people believe that they could fly them safely but have landed us in an irremediable mess.

Though space constraints severely limit the arguments I can present to back this analogy, but I will give it a try. A ten-year review, Human Development in South Asia by Mahbub-ul-Haq of the Human Development Centre in 2007 said, “A little over 73 percent of Pakistanis still live below the poverty line with the percentage of rural poor registering an increase and the share of South Asia in the total number of poor in the world has increased significantly from 40 percent in 1993 to 47 percent in 2004.The progress in life expectancy in Pakistan during the last 10 years is the lowest in the region. Percentage of malnourished children under five years of age remains stagnant at 38 percent compared to 40 percent in 1994.

“Maternal mortality rate per 100,000 live births increased significantly from 340 deaths in 1993 to 500 deaths in 2000. Incidence of tuberculosis per 100,000 increased from 150 in 1995 to 181 in 2004. Public spending on health as percentage of GDP also went down from 0.8 percent in 1995 to 0.4 percent in 2004.”

The situation has worsened since and Pakistan’s 137th place in the UN’s Human Development Index proves it. Poverty is the silent tsunami that is inexorably swamping this country but our rulers are oblivious to it.

Shahid Javed Burki recently wrote, “The rate of increase in GDP in 2009-10 was about two percent. For the current year, even the more optimistic government officials do not expect the rate of increase to be more than 3.5 percent.” He adds, “While I have not seen a recent estimate of the efficiency of the Pakistani economy my guess is that in the current situation the Incremental Capital Output Ratio (ICOR) is perhaps as high as five to six. This means that the country has to invest five to six percent of GDP to produce a one percent increase in GDP.”

Here the major part of GDP goes to the armed forces and debt servicing; most of the rest is spent needlessly like the Rs 40 million on Zardari’s personal residence in Sector F-8 in Islamabad. So, where will the money come from for infrastructure development and people’s welfare?

Pakistan’s external debt rose to an unprecedented $ 55.68 billion as of December 31, 2009 from $ 52.33 billion on June 30, 2009 {Remember that the US waived off more than USD 10 Billion worth of loans in circa 2002} due to loans received from the IMF and other donor agencies. Pakistan’s external debt liabilities of $ 55.68 billion form 32 percent of its GDP. Syed Mohammad Ali (‘Pakistan’s further shackling by debt’, Daily Times, February 2, 2010) wrote, “Pakistan’s total external debt, which is more than twice its internal debt, is currently estimated to grow by more than 43 percent over the next five years. According to the IMF, our external debt will increase by another $ 2 billion in 2011-12 and exceed $ 72 billion by 2015-16.” An inescapable debt-trap. A finance ministry report disclosed that the total debt has now reached Rs 810 billion, of which Rs 401 billion was internal debt. National debt has reached 54.1 percent of GNP or 370 percent of total national resources.

Inflation has risen by a massive 36.3 percent since 2008, with wheat flour and sugar prices rising by 83 and 168 percent respectively and petroleum product prices being raised 19 times. The eight perennially inefficient public sector enterprises like PIA, Pakistan Steel Mills, etc., gobble up Rs 250 billion annually and show no signs of recovery. Now PIA is seeking the conversion of non-fleet loans worth Rs 45 billion and worth $ 250 million; the PSO needs Rs 50 billion to avoid defaulting.

To show how incompetent, inept and bungling the rulers here are, let’s see the performance of a multinational to highlight the contrast. By the way, I am not enamoured of multinational companies. In 2008, Exxon Mobil reported the largest annual profit in US history, making $ 45.22 billion, which comes to $ 1,434 a second. It reported total revenue of over $ 477 billion, just over $ 1.3 billion daily in 2008. In 2005, Exxon Mobil’s worldwide workforce was 84,000 employees but now it is 80,000. In 2005 it paid $ 12 billion in salaries and benefits to them.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2010 12:22

Pakistani societal perspectives on terrorism
Excerpts

Some militant and sectarian groups were banned in 2001-2002 but these resurfaced under new names towards the end of 2002 or in 2003. Now, these militants are not merely confined to well-known militant and sectarian groups but they have also penetrated all kinds of Islamic groups and movements. {He is saying all Islamic groupings in Pakistan are terrorist in nature. First real admission from a Pakistani of waht we have been saying here for far too long}

The religious-denominational identities are critical to building support for militancy. Most Deobandi, Wahabbi and Ahle-Hadees elements express varying degrees of support or sympathy for the Taliban and other militants. The other Islamic denominational groups like the Barelvis and the Shias or those subscribing to some Sufi traditions are generally critical of their violent methods but share their notion of an Islamic religious order and the dichotomised worldview characterised by the hostility of the powerful states of the West towards Islam and the Muslims.

The other major source of support to militancy is the political right that overlaps with religious-conservative and orthodox circles. This perspective enjoyed the patronage of the Pakistani state and especially the military and intelligence establishment for years when they used militant and hardline Islamic groups as the instruments of foreign and security policies in Afghanistan and Indian-administered Kashmir. These young individuals were socialised into this perspective through education in state institution and the state-controlled media from the mid-1980s to 2004-2005. At least one generation has been socialised into a favourable disposition towards Islamic conservatism and militancy that is now holding middle level jobs in government (civil and military) and the private sector. Their political discourse is laden with a strongly conservative Islamic worldview that invariably views international and local politics as a function of religion and religion-based conflict in the international system. They have a natural sympathy towards the political discourse of the militants even if they do not support their violent methods.

Though Pakistan’s top civilian and military leadership have come to the unanimous conclusion that the Taliban and other militant elements are a threat to Pakistan’s internal harmony and stability, {This is incorrect. They have not come to such a conclusion. They still hold the same earlier view but are deceiving the other nations by what appears to be 'some action' against these elements.} it is difficult to argue that such unanimity of views exists in the lower echelons of civilian and military institutions. The Islamist and political right perspective is noticeably conspicuous among the personnel in the state institutions.

Pakistan’s political class is ambiguous on dealing with the militants. Most of them condemn religious extremism, suicide attacks and bombings that cause death and chaos. Even a large number of Islamic clerics, including those sharing religious denomination with the Taliban condemn killings of innocent people. However, if you ask them to specifically condemn the Taliban movement, a large number of them would shy away. Some Islamic clerics argue that suicide bombing is justified under some circumstances.

Islamic political parties like the Jamaat-i-Islami (JI), all factions of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) and most Islamic movements support the Taliban and oppose military action against them. The press periodically reports the derogatory remarks of the JI leaders about the military because in their view it is serving a US agenda rather than Pakistani national interests. Most of these parties and groups view the Taliban as friends of Pakistan and blame violence on the paid agents of the US, India and Israel. An advertisement published by a Lahore-based organisation called “Tanzeem-e-Islami Pakistan” in an Urdu newspaper on March 11 presents a highly skewed Islamic view of what is happening in and around Pakistan. It is highly pro-Taliban and anti-military, asking the rulers of Pakistan to “give up the slavery of the US and adopt the slavery of Allah, otherwise total destruction in this world and thereafter is going to be ‘our fate’”.

The provocative religious discourse is widely shared by the political right whose advocates write columns after columns in Urdu newspapers that regard Pakistan’s counter-terrorism policy as a blunder and think the civil and military rulers of Pakistan have sold out to the US. They often accuse Pakistan’s security forces of killing Muslim citizens of Pakistan. Interestingly, they do not blame the Pakistani Taliban for killing Muslim and non-Muslim citizens of Pakistan.

satya · Post by **satya** » 14 Mar 2010 13:37

Pakistan’s total external debt, which is more than twice its internal debt, is currently estimated to grow by more than 43 percent over the next five years. According to the IMF, our external debt will increase by another $ 2 billion in 2011-12 and exceed $ 72 billion by 2015-16.

How come tactically brilliant TSPians have such a big diff. between internal & external debt don't they issue govt. bonds locally to tspian banks something GoI do or its something to do with paying interest haraam so they have to go abroad to get money ? Or their banking system is very limited in representation ie having a very small capital base & customer base ? Can understand in European economies having govt debt paper in foreigner hands due to their Euro currency status but TSPians ? What sort of saving ratios they have wrt GDP , is it too low ? As per the article TSPians are truely trying to outmatch their frd PRC in gross over use of capital to produce GDP growth ( if not wrong PRC also has very inefficient use of capital ).

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 14 Mar 2010 13:55

Inorder to raise bonds, the bonds need to have value. Pakistanis dont have confidence in their government's bond. Further the saving rate of pakistani economy is low so the government cannot raise a lot of money from the domestic market.

Already they have run away inflation, more debt from the internal market will increase inflation further. It is very clear that Pakistani economy in its present shape requires huge external assistance, otherwise their economy will collapse.

32% external debt is very high. America has $1 trillion external debt that the chinese have bought and they feel as if their future is in debt. Just to service this debt pakistan will have to spend around 3% of their GDP and another 3% in military. Normally Tax to GDP ratio is 10% and in pakistan that maybe even lower. So we are seeing an economy that does not have any capability to function, invest or improve.

As the situation is going to worsen further, this economy will in the future be highly dependent on external grants.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 14 Mar 2010 14:17

^also to raise money from the market to invest in other industries,there need to be a growing industry,where investors try to multiply their assets,. there is no such industry except taliban and baki army , and what is interesting is that these growing sectors always manage the funds and again usa and china are again the biggest source of income in these sectors,. recently japan also joined

I really like the term ' exporter of terrorism' coined by GoI for pakistan, it really burns through their veins whenever chidambaram or anyone else refers pakistan as an exporter of terrorism on international platforms.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 14 Mar 2010 15:01

Blast kills Pakistani national in Afghanistan - police
KANDAHAR: A roadside bomb killed a Pakistani construction worker and wounded six of his compatriots on Sunday in Afghanistan's southern city of Kandahar, police said.

This definitely does not look like Indian operation. Our retaliation, if there is any, will come inside TSP and will be more brutal than this. (or so i hope)

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 14 Mar 2010 15:56

Gagan Wrote:

Give him a long rope, a mike and an adulating audience, I say.

I agree with Gagan. We should give maximum air time to ZH as possible to let RAPE class of India and the other world know about Pakistanis views about India. Hold on - if you believe that everybody in world believes that Pakistan hates India that is not true. People believe that Pakistan hate india because of Kashmir issue however the hate is much more deep rooted in concept of Gazwa-e-Hind. ZH is biggest proponent of this concept at present time in Pakistan.

I also agree that ZH is double edge sword, and we should make full use of it in media. Isn't this successful use of media and phy ops techniques to further isolate pakis and let their view become clear to world. That' why I wish more Zaid Hamids in Pakistan, more popularity to him in pakistan, the more airtime for him on CNN BBC and NDTVs of world.

One more thing - even there is absolutely not a single thing new in his new videos, because he always speaks for 2 hours starting from either bin kasim or allam iqbal and ends with radio pakistan on laal qila, we are not expecting new knowledge bits about pakistan from him. Rather we know that many Indians coming onto BRF have little time to go through archives of this thread and listen to him. So we should keep him alive on BRF as long as he is alive in paki media.

On side note - an excellent article from Nadeep Parcha on this tribe of modern jihadees. Important thing is he compares Zakir Nair to same ilk.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... litics-430

Their message has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of reformism contemporary Muslim thought is in a dire need of. On the contrary, what these preachers, ranging from the likes of Farhat Hashmi to Zakir Naik, do is to continue upholding traditionalist, frozen tracts of Islamic history and law; they dress them up with modern bourgeois symbolism.

Unfortunately (?) there are very few people who would agree with above either in pakistan or in IM population.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 14 Mar 2010 16:15

[youtube]NtSP1mYJWSk&feature=related[/youtube]

FAO: Those who don't understand quick-fire Urdu: Prophet Jahil Hamid PBUH, SAW speaks in Engleesh and urdu in this video

This man is talking about using a Sitara rocket to launch a Proki Terronaut on the moon within 5 years

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Mar 2010 16:58

Since those who are in Desh are supposed to be infintely more knowledgeable about each and every nook and cranny of Desi society - maybe they can really investigate the popularity or not of ZH's rants among certain sectors of IM. There are two groups within IM who appear to increasingly follow similar rants : urban youth from the "upper" class who are gaining access to the web, and mainly skilled/semi-skilled/unskilled artisan sections who get this via various groups.

Allowing ZH to be aired more need not be a good tactic. Ignoring the snide dismissal of any negativity associated with current trends in IM thought processes, those who have the social networks and access to these IM strata, do please explore along these lines. I am aware of at least three concentrations in the East - virtual ghettos - where ZH is avidly listened to. Start looking for the Urdu speaking subgroups (or those who use Urduin private). What I am hearing from those associated with areas involved in the "leather" industry does not make me feel comfortable in giving wide dissemination to ZH.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 14 Mar 2010 17:00

Inorder to raise bonds, the bonds need to have value. Pakistanis dont have confidence in their government's bond. Further the saving rate of pakistani economy is low so the government cannot raise a lot of money from the domestic market.

Already they have run away inflation, more debt from the internal market will increase inflation further. It is very clear that Pakistani economy in its present shape requires huge external assistance, otherwise their economy will collapse.

32% external debt is very high. America has $1 trillion external debt that the chinese have bought and they feel as if their future is in debt. Just to service this debt pakistan will have to spend around 3% of their GDP and another 3% in military. Normally Tax to GDP ratio is 10% and in pakistan that maybe even lower. So we are seeing an economy that does not have any capability to function, invest or improve.

As the situation is going to worsen further, this economy will in the future be highly dependent on external grants.

Nothing to worry about. Bakistan will force west to maaf kardo the debt by putting gun on her own head. Have you heard "nobody want unstable Bakistan " type declaration? Even Indian leaders and NDTV type think so.I am sure if certain budhijivi have their way , we might end up paying extortion money to Bakistan. Bakistanis are specialists in begging and Indian leaders are expandable.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Mar 2010 17:44

Searched among the threads - not found, so posting if not posted before:
http://blog.ale.com.pk/?p=1231
ZH cannot refuse the fringe benefits of popularity and propaganda:

Breaking News: Zaid Hamid betrayed me, says Lubna.
23 January 2010 1,683 views 12 Comments Print This Post Print This Post

BREAKING NEWS : Lubna claims that Zaid Hamid has betrayed her.

Dear Readers,

I am going to present an exclusive interview with Lubna, an ex-ardent follower of Zaid Hamid. She tells her story of love for Hamid and claims that he betrayed her. You are going to witness some shocking insights into this love-affair!

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 14 Mar 2010 18:02

Mahendra wrote:ideo

This man is talking about using a Sitara rocket to launch a Proki Terronaut on the moon within 5 years

plz post him only in benis thread

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 14 Mar 2010 18:08

Pakistan support to LeT threatens security in South Asia: US expert

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 14 Mar 2010 19:28

very informative pakistani video, for pakistani lurks as well,
watch at 3:10 ,,

[youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kzq3FvfUMQA&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kzq3FvfUMQA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Mar 2010 19:36

brihaspati wrote:....Allowing ZH to be aired more need not be a good tactic....

I'm with Brihaspati on this.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2010 19:43

SSridhar wrote:Being fashionable in Lahore - Hindol Sengupta in The Hindu
This is the unseen Pakistan. This is the Pakistan to break every Pakistan cliché. I am here to see the city of the restless night and in Lahore, Noor Rahman, with her kohl and cocky comeback, educationist and sushi and meethi pan connoisseur, opens doors to parties that last till 10.00 a.m., and says she wants to come to Delhi.

Hindol Sengupta is an ignorant imbecile.

THIS is the hidden unseen Pakistan

SSridhar wrote:Phoney Pilots of Pakistan

“Maternal mortality rate per 100,000 live births increased significantly from 340 deaths in 1993 to 500 deaths in 2000. Incidence of tuberculosis per 100,000 increased from 150 in 1995 to 181 in 2004. Public spending on health as percentage of GDP also went down from 0.8 percent in 1995 to 0.4 percent in 2004.”

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 14 Mar 2010 19:50

Breath taking equal-equal

BOOK REVIEW: Healing invisible wounds - Noor by Sorayya Khan

The Hamoodur Rahman Commission report recorded allegations against the military that included the rape of large numbers of East Pakistani women by the officers and men of the Pakistan army as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture. It accused the Pakistan army of carrying out the nonsensical killing of intellectuals, professionals, businessmen, industrialists, Bengali officers and soldiers. The Pakistani army suppressed Bengali unrest with extraordinary brutality.

So what lessons are being learned from this history? None. Bangladesh, Pakistan and India continue to carry out organized killings in the name of religion, region and nationalism. Conflicts continue, as do the rape of innocent girls and women.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2010 19:57

Samay wrote:very informative pakistani video, for pakistani lurks as well,
watch at 3:10 ,,

Brilliant 5 stars!

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 14 Mar 2010 20:18

shiv wrote:I believe that Zaid Hamid is a mouthpiece for the Pakistani army. Since he speaks fast Urdu I find it difficult to listen to him for more than 15 seconds, but the talk is the same.

I think he is an idiot who is pushing idiotic views. He is a full blown RAPE being made to put up an act to show that he and his applauding audiences make up all of Pakistan. Nothing could be further from the truth. Like many other things Paki Zaid Hamid exists to paint a particular picture of of Pakistan that will have no effect on what Pakistan really is or really can do.

It appears that a lot of people (on here) get kicks out of his videos. I suppose that is their prerogative. The last time I watched a full Zaid Hamid video was over a year ago and I have never clicked on the numerous links after that. On BRF - at best he caters to a small audience of people who can understand his Urdu. IF Zaid Hamid had been speaking Malayalam - at least a few members would have asked for translations. The lack of interest indicates to me that nobody is bothered. In that sense Samay is right - the glee with which Zaid Hamid's speeches are linked on here does not seem to me to correspond to either his importance or popularity in the scheme of things in Pakistan. He is a diversion - and a weak one at that. Paying attention to him can only reconfirm a well known fact - there is hatred for India and Hindus in Pakistan. But we do not need a thousand links to Zaid Hamid for just that information.

I find it easy to scroll down the BR posts list in the morning by ignoring all links to Hamid and LOL/ROTFL posts referring to those links. He teaches me nothing new about Pakistan and will be able to bring no new revolution to Pakistan by making fiery speeches of hatred. Comparing him with Hitler is silly. The hate is the same - but Hitler was intelligent. Zaid Hamid is a retard.

I am not sure I fully agree with all of the above. ZH provides a window into the pseudo-intellectual musings of the martial jihadi race. For those who understand urdu, its great entertainment. By not listening to him, he wont go away and bury is head in poo. Infact, he is useful in that, he lets us know what is causing the jihadi subset of pakis to burn with anger, jealousy and demented rage.