Su-30: News and Discussion

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 11 Mar 2010 02:46

Samay wrote:What abt this one at 3:01?

That looks like a standard Flanker to me. Can you identify low observation features?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Mar 2010 03:01

thread cleaned up. funny stuff moved to media watch thread.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 11 Mar 2010 03:04

Shameek wrote:

That looks like a standard Flanker to me. Can you identify low observation features?

It looks there was some modifications in air intakes I guess,but the canards look thinner?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Mar 2010 21:38

India to purchase 40 Su-30MKI warplanes from Russia

"We're conducting negotiations over this contract; we're expecting it to be signed this year," director of the Sukhoi corporation Mikhail Pogosyan underlined on Friday.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Mar 2010 01:57

Sukhoi too tested a reduced RCS version of Su-35 with conformal weapon bay.

Wind tunnel Model ( credit: secretprojects/overscan )

Does that model have winglets?

Bheem · Post by **Bheem** » 14 Mar 2010 09:24

It does not seem that any deal has been signed for more Su-30MKIs during Putin visit??

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2010 11:57

NRao wrote:Does that model have winglets?

Emmm dont know , these are as you know wing tunnel model and probably would have been tested with various design improvement.

One thing is certain Sukhoi/Tsagi did probably do a lot of Wind Tunnel Model test to validate a Low RCS version of Flanker with conformal weapon bays , perhaps we may see the result of those test in newer flanker or perhaps they came to the conclusion its not worth the effort reducing the RCS of basic flanker design viz a viz gains obtained and cost involved.

Or this could also be plan B if the PAK-FA project was not funded or cancelled early on when they were in economy crisis difficult to know the purpose and final outcome of these test.

If one reads Yefim Gordon book on Flanker one of the early model tested did have a Canted VS ( like F-18 ) and intake which looked stealthy , I thought that was the first attempt by the Soviet to try reducing RCS of a 4th Gen Fighter from design, perhaps inspired by US F-18 , but later settled for a basic Flanker Design we now know Su-27SK.

It does not seem that any deal has been signed for more Su-30MKIs during Putin visit??

Bheem the news reports mentions deal to be signed by end of this year.

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 15 Mar 2010 11:24

Will the purchase of 40 new MKI's bring the number up to 230+40=270?

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 15 Mar 2010 11:33

Willy wrote:Will the purchase of 40 new MKI's bring the number up to 230+40=270?

yes, but lest wait till the contract is signed.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 16 Mar 2010 06:51

President of Venezuela getting a Su-30 Escort

Is that Eurofighter WELL below or is just the size of the motherbird ?
Either ways what an awesome view !

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 16 Mar 2010 13:10

Su-30MKM. What is the "wedge" on the spine?

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5473/1628398.jpg

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 16 Mar 2010 13:21

Aditya G wrote:Su-30MKM. What is the "wedge" on the spine?

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5473/1628398.jpg

That would be the Maw-300 MAWS I think.

Edit: Whic reminds me. Does our Rambha ave a MAWS. I know it as the Tarang RWR but that is just an RWR not a MAWS.

rad · Post by **rad** » 17 Mar 2010 10:55

The Mention of MAWS just reminded me of the threat that our sukhois will be facing ,In an all out war
obviously they will target our ac with multi launches of amraams to be sure of a kill and in a dogfight situation
IIR A darter missile will be fired at us as well. It is a common knowledge that these missile are state
of the art as of today and it will be very difficult to counter them .That brings me to the subject that we are totaly
neglecting the self defence aspect of our a/c. We have to have MAWS, as well as DIRCM laser jammers to negate
IIR missile like the aim-9x, A darter, IRST, asraam etc, these cannot be jammed unless you burned the seeker with a laser beam
and alll other counter measures are going to fail against these missiles. Only hte US and Israel have these technologies , there
was a recent collaboration between Italy and Israel and they have DIRCM for large a/c and helos,

http://defense-update.com/features/2009 ... 50609.html

As for the amraam missiles we have to get a towed decoy from israel again as as the US will never sell the ALE-50 series
to us. The Israeli decoy would be the best bet because they face the same amraam missiles from Arab countries like Egypt,saudi,Kuwait ,UAE etc
and it would be naive of us to think that the Israelis would not have developed counter measure to that .

What we need is a highly integrated EW system consisting of MAWS, RWR, Active jammers, DIRCM and towed decoys.
what is the use of having a good ac without these defenses which might cost 5 million $.
Why put a state of the art ac like the sukhoi at risk costing 70 million .

Rad

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2010 11:11

has to be a wingtip decoy. it is alleged those spooled out from base of tailfin
like f16/f18 get burned and fall away if afterburner is used.

totally agree about need for maws and towed decoy. just flares and chaff dont cut it anymore against advanced AAMs.

pakis will be glad to fire 10 amraams to bring down one IAF ac. first of all they are free and they are being given a lot.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 17 Mar 2010 12:07

So the Malaysians had the foresight to equip their Su's with MAWS and we didn't?

rad · Post by **rad** » 17 Mar 2010 12:12

One of the major obstacles that had to be over come was of the connecting link between the decoy and the ac being burned by after burner
so it took a lot of time and effort to overcome that, and today it is made of fibre optic cable , that does not radiate RF while transmiting.
The decoy pod was never put in the fin root , it is usualy on the outer pylons next to the wing tip or on the wing tip if i am right on the euro fighter.
This is because it has to be away from the ac as much as possible in case of a detonation of a missile which is precisely what it is meant to do.
Nato pilots swear by the decoy that has saved many lives in bosnia , they call it "little buddy" or something.

Rad

johnny_m · Post by **johnny_m** » 17 Mar 2010 15:02

I think MAWS is part of the next phase of Su 30 MKI upgrades. I do not think there are going to be DIRCM or Towed Decoys however.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Mar 2010 18:45

guess where this pic of SB042 was taken at ?

regarding DIRCM on su's, I'm not aware of any fighter based DIRCM turrets yet, only for helos and transports and neither for A2A IIR missiles as well. only the F-35 talks of DIRCM now and that too far in the future.
please correct me if I'm wrong.

as for some details on our future EW and CM route, read this post, including the quoted ones.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 72#p821272

incidentally, LCH will have DIRCM.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 17 Mar 2010 19:11

Rahul M wrote:guess where this pic of SB042 was taken at ?
http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/modl_su- ... 30_071.jpg

This is a model

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 17 Mar 2010 19:19

Nice model , where did u get that i wanted to buy one for my self ,please provide me information

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Mar 2010 19:21

karan, it's done by well known flanker enthusiast from the UK ken (flankerman on keypubs) from a number of kits.
http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/modl_su-30mkm.html

Neeraj Bagga · Post by **Neeraj Bagga** » 19 Mar 2010 00:45

US Pilot Reviews SU-30 MKI post red flag.

I had not seen this one before. Came as an utter surprise to hear him mock the Rambha. He said F-16 and 15s could consistently beat our flankers.
And what is the claim about 60 sec gap for take off..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJndMO1 ... re=related

I don't know the validity of the claims.. However, he came across as utterly unprofessional. See how he fumbled explaining what MKI means. Looked like off the cuff presentation.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 19 Mar 2010 00:55

^^
This topic has already been discussed to death several times here. Please go through archives.

ADDED LATER:
Refer http://vayu-sena.indianmilitaryhistory. ... rnof.shtml

You should also go through BR thread on this topic (now in archives).

Neeraj Bagga · Post by **Neeraj Bagga** » 19 Mar 2010 02:16

Thanks Gaur.
I searched the forums.. and could not find anything, so I posted it. Agreed.. I am not the best searcher.
Thanks again.

rad · Post by **rad** » 19 Mar 2010 11:39

Has anybody done an elaborate study pertaining to the difference between the malaysian sukhoi and the
inidan sukhoi.? It appears that they have a Maws which we dont have and also the HUd seems bigger
brighter and wider. Any info on the EW part?.
AFAIK no fighter ac has a dircm but we have to invest in it and there is no other way .Having a large ac like the sukhoi
has some advantages like more space relatively to add on avionics

Rad

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 20 Mar 2010 10:26

Jeez! check this video out of the Sukhoi
I am guessing its the Russki carrier...Gotta love those engines!

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 20 Mar 2010 17:01

^^^

OMG that flanker barely got away. The aircraft was yawing to the left, the pilot stalled the aircraft during the flare but the engines saved it.

Cheers....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Mar 2010 18:02

even the kuz looks so darn small for the flanker. barely enough space for a safe operating margin.
would have been worse for the vik if we bought it.

bodhi · Post by **bodhi** » 20 Mar 2010 19:10

a couple of feet lower...tail hook catches the arrester wires...boom

vcsekhar · Post by **vcsekhar** » 27 Mar 2010 14:27

I spoke to a friend of mine who is a naval aviator about this video and he had some interesting points to make about it.
1. Could be a pilot error due to "saturation" and he caught it at the last possible moment and had the skill and the presence of mind to successfully recover.
2. could have been asked to go around at the last moment by the ship as there was a problem with the wires.
3. Could have been testing missed wire recovery, this is possible as there is absolutely nobody visible on the deck (no aircraft no personnel).

There was no conclusion after so many days so I decided to ask for external help

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 27 Mar 2010 17:23

^^^ Think its not a pilot error. The pilot actually started reheating the engine even before it came near the deck arrester wires(0.8 seconds in the video), as if some one has asked him to abort the landing in the last moment.

vcsekhar · Post by **vcsekhar** » 29 Mar 2010 16:54

As far as I know, for all carrier landings the pilots go to full power just before touchdown just in case they need to go around. Without full power there is no way that the plane can takeoff again in case of a missed wire.
The time taken for the engines to spool up is high so the throttles need to be set to full power in advance of the actual touchdown.

my 2 cents

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 31 Mar 2010 07:47

HAL Sunabeda unit gets new facility for Sukhoi-30

The engine division of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) at Sunabeda in Orissa's Koraput district has got a separate overhauling department for Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft..
...
...The engine division of HAL has a long term plan to undertake manufacture of AL-31FP engines for Sukhoi-30 KLI aircraft under license, sources said.

OK, question time:

1) Whats Sukhoi-30 KLI? Is it a typos?
2) Does a separate "overhauling" facility mean its for the Su-30 MKI MLU?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 14 Apr 2010 12:16

Su-30MKI: The frontline of the IAF

Good article summarising Indian Contribution to Su-30 MKI, its role in air combat exercises, etc.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 14 Apr 2010 13:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNi9FbJqzeo
Hopefully the pilot got away in time and did not come in the way of .. excuse me an aircraft carrier !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRLNHya ... re=related
Another on about hard landings when flying the Frogfoot.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 17 Apr 2010 04:42

From missiles.ru and via the ever dependable "Otaku" @ keypubs, possibly the latest BARS II antenna, supposedly will double the range and targets detected/tracked!

CM

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 18 Apr 2010 22:56

Hey guys,

A little help here,

Is that a MKI firing the Python 5 missile at 2:41 in this video?

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 18 Apr 2010 23:15

sourab_c wrote:Hey guys,

A little help here,

Is that a MKI firing the Python 5 missile at 2:41 in this video?

At 2:40 and 2:41 is a F-16, indicated by the bubble canopy and right-hand joystick. At 2:43 it seems to be a F-15.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Apr 2010 02:11

Cain Marko wrote:From missiles.ru and via the ever dependable "Otaku" @ keypubs, possibly the latest BARS II antenna, supposedly will double the range and targets detected/tracked!
CM

And, what do you know? It comes with a screw driver and a screw driver holder both attached to the radar for real quick turn-around time!!

Nice feature.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 20 Apr 2010 21:36

Su-30 MKI falls from the assembly jig in Nasik; HAL says 'all is well' & terms incident as 'minor'

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2010/04/s ... g-hal.html

A Su-30 MKI aircraft that was being assembled at HAL’s Nasik division has reportedly fallen from a ‘certain height,’ causing damage to the body. Though the extent of the damage is not yet known, insiders have confirmed to tarmak007 that an ‘unfortunate accident’ had happened in the first week of April, 2010. Though HAL managed to keep the matter under wraps for more than two weeks, the details slowly started emerging out, with the first sketchy report appearing in a Marathi daily in Nasik.

PHASE-III AIRCRAFT: According to insiders the incident happened when the Su-30 MKI aircraft, part of the Phase-III schedule, was being moved from one jig to another. Fortunately, no employees were injured as the number of people at the assembly unit was less at the time of the fall.

Though unconfirmed sources claimed that the Sukhoi fell from a height of 20-feet, HAL officials who spoke to tarmak007 on condition of anonymity said that the whole incident was ‘really minor’ and not worth to be blown out of proportion. “We accept that there was an incident and the aircraft fell from just 3 feet and not 20 feet. No one was injured. There was no avionics on board, nor any power plant,” sources said.

FAULTY SLING IS VILLAIN: It is learnt that HAL was quick to set-up an investigation team into the incident and found that the Su-30 MKI fell due to a faulty sling design. The aircraft’s fuselage is said to have come from Russia and only an ‘empty aluminum shell’ was being assembled at the time of the incident. “The aircraft was to go for equipping. We were working on the wings of the aircraft which were to be attached to the fuselage. We have replaced the sling and the aircraft will be retrieved in the next 10 days. We are also planning to change the entire design of the sling,” sources said.

Sources had told tarmak007 that close to 50-60 % of work on the aircraft was over and some trolley rods had pierced into the body after the fall. However, HAL officials rejected this bit of information by saying that damage to the body was minimal and still lot of integration work was left behind as the aircraft was scheduled to be delivered only next year.

HAL’s BEST DIVISON: Interestingly, Nasik Division is HAL’s main bread winner in terms of profits, thanks to the Su-30 MKI program, which will run through the next couple of years following the compressed Su-30 delivery schedule to IAF. Nasik contributed Rs 5,500 crores in the last fiscal (close to 47% of the company’s total sales turn over), without which HAL’s final FY figures would have told a completely different story. “We have ensured that everything is safe and have assured various employee representatives that the incident of this sort would not happen, nullifying their fear of fatal incidents at the assembly hangars. The Su-30 MKI program is on track and we shall work hard to meet our targets,” sources said.

MD (MiG) P.V. Deshmukh, who has been credited with inspiring the work force through a series of proactive steps, could not be contacted despite tarmak007’s best efforts, as he was traveling.
With sharp media focus slowly falling on the company following tremors being reported form within – be it at the production, exports and HR fronts -- it will be safe for HAL to put in some fire-fighting tools quickly to avoid such incidents being 'blown out of proportion’ for want of authenticate information on time. HAL could borrow a leaf from ISRO in this regard.
A stitch in time saves nine.