Indian Army: News & Discussion

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Mar 2010 22:20

As I said before, I am not too sure of the merits of the case of Avdesh, but because the Army Rule was not applied, it is what is called 'bad in law' and hence he has a leg to stand on!

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 16 Mar 2010 22:40

First it was sukhram and now its about so many IAS officers who could have money dumped in their houses, some are caught every year in IT raids. Its because chalta hai attitude abt corruption is predominent in every department,.
If Avdhesh prakash case is kept pending on decision ,it will spread chalta hai attitude in army as well.
courts should be pressurized by the goi to solve it quickly and devise new ways to stop corruption in army.
More this case is discussed in media , more dirt it will spill on army's prestige,. And prestige is IA's strength !
Ultimately if GoI politicians dont act now,they wont be allowed to do so later.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 16 Mar 2010 23:03

Samay wrote:First it was sukhram and now its about so many IAS officers who could have money dumped in their houses, some are caught every year in IT raids. Its because chalta hai attitude abt corruption is predominent in every department,.
If Avdhesh prakash case is kept pending on decision ,it will spread chalta hai attitude in army as well.
courts should be pressurized by the goi to solve it quickly and devise new ways to stop corruption in army.
More this case is discussed in media , more dirt it will spill on army's prestige,. And prestige is IA's strength !
Ultimately if GoI politicians dont act now,they wont be allowed to do so later.

But the point of the trial process is to establish guilt or innocence. There is an approved manner in which trials must be carried out, and the apex court is only insisting that this is adhered to. In this way, we can be more sure that the proof is beyond reasonable doubt, and the punishment meted out can be considered just.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 16 Mar 2010 23:38

Shiv Aroor reports

The indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT) has "met all performance objectives" at the recent month-long trials in Rajasthan, according to sources who witnessed them.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 17 Mar 2010 01:22

^^
Sources unnamed, unofficial. Sounds like a simple psy-ops exercise to get the first word in before the official report is released. Perhaps to do some psy-ops on whatever the report says.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 17 Mar 2010 04:01

Bangladesh Army Chief Visits Leh

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Mar 2010 05:25

Indian Army faces Massive Shortage of Officers

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Mar 2010 05:28

Army talks with Bangla

India’s effort to improve military relations with Bangladesh was stepped up since 2008. Part of the reason for the renewal of effort was a concern that Bangladesh’s military was intensifying its exchanges with China. Bangladesh holds war exercises with the Chinese military but not with India. But it deputes officers to attend courses in Indian military institutions.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 18 Mar 2010 05:51

'Army has Occupied 13,885 Arces of Land in Kargil'

Jammu and Kashmir government today said that as many as 13,885 acres of land is under army occupation in the Kargil district of the state.

Replying to the question of Aga Syed Ahmed Rizvi during Question Hour in Legislative Council, Law and parliamentary Affairs Minister Ali Mohmmad Sagar on behalf of the Chief Minister told the House that the army is in occupation of 13,885 acres of land in Kargil, of which, 13,412 acres is state land and 472 acres is private.

In addition, an area of 12,107 acres has been notified as 'Khurbathang Firing Range' for the period of 10 years as per the government order issued on March 8, 2004, he said.

Rizvi demanded that the firing range should be shifted from the area as this is a cause great worry to the people.

"The state land has been occupied by the army at different points of time and similarly the private lands were also taken over by the army from land owners through direct negotiations and hiring which were subsequently regularised for pay of rentals," Sagar added.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 18 Mar 2010 07:57

Craig Alpert wrote:'Army has Occupied 13,885 Arces of Land in Kargil'

In addition, an area of 12,107 acres has been notified as 'Khurbathang Firing Range' for the period of 10 years as per the government order issued on March 8, 2004, he said.

Rizvi demanded that the firing range should be shifted from the area as this is a cause great worry to the people.

We were located just next to the firing range mentioned.

It affects no civilians since on one side there is the airstrip and below that in the next drop in the hills are another set of Army units.

The flank opposite the airstrip and where we were located is another high hill while in front where the shells landed was a massive mountain.

This area including a large part of Kargil area can be observed by the Pakistani posts!

Just a ploy to put pressure so that land is taken and exploitation can be done for commercial gains!

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 18 Mar 2010 09:48

Wah, wah... ten years ago, the Indian Army fought to the death in Kargil. Ten years later, they have become "illegal occupiers of land". Is there any hope left for this country?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 19 Mar 2010 05:31

Israel's Cornershot weapon demo and sales in India (source: 8ak)

[youtube]Hre5eQIzqEk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Mar 2010 06:14

Col Purohit May Face Court Martial

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Mar 2010 09:09

Gerard wrote:Col Purohit May Face Court Martial

I am surprised that none could detect earlier and well in time that this person was not being very military like.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Mar 2010 17:14

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mirac ... adlines%29

Miracle Mission

Manu Pubby

Posted: Sunday , Mar 14, 2010 at 0311 hrs
New Delhi:

The massive avalanche that killed 17 army personnel who were training at the High Altitude Warfare School (HAWS) near Gulmarg last month could have turned into a much bigger tragedy as over 200 soldiers had got buried under the snow. What saved the day was that they were freshly trained in avalanche rescue.

The avalanche, which struck several kilometers north of where the Snow and Avalanche Study Establishment had given out a warning for, hit a training camp of the warfare school on February 8, completely burying 222 soldiers, some of them even 12 feet under, in a matter of seconds.

However, within four hours, rescuers with the help of specialised equipment such as snow diggers, scooters and a sniffer dog that was available nearby, managed to extricate 205 soldiers from under the snow, rounding up probably the army’s largest ever successful rescue effort.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 20 Mar 2010 04:54

Cross posting from India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector thread

Indian Army Develops Blinding Chili Grenade

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 20 Mar 2010 11:31

A one of its kind bomb for the Indian army - Why not try something innovative?? Why not try a brand new bomb?? And lets make all its components "truly indigenous"..

Enter the "hot & spicy" bomb... Seriously

India has unveiled the latest hot new weapon -- a grenade made using the world's hottest chili, reported The Sun on Friday. At more than a thousand times stronger than the average cooking spice the bhut jolokia chili is set to cause a potent explosion on more than just the taste buds.

Military experts in India have developed the new crowd control grenade packed with ground seeds from the chili -- which is officially recognized as the hottest on the planet by Guinness World Records. When deployed the grenade showers the targets with a dust so spicy that in trials subjects were blinded for hours and left with breathing problems.

Lead scientist R.B. Srivastava, from India's Defense Research and Development Organisation, said: "The chilli grenade is a non-toxic weapon and when used would force a terrorist to come out of his hideout. "The effect is so pungent that it would literally choke them."

The hotness of the bhut jolokia, which is native to Assam, in north-east India, is measured in Scoville heat units and comes in at a massive 1,001,304 -- that is nearly twice as hot as Mexico's red savina that used to hold the record at 577,000. The average jalapeno measures at about 10,000. Researchers in India have also come up with some other ingenious uses for the chili. The scientist said: "There are other applications as well, what we call women power. A specially made chili powder could act as a tool for women to keep away anti-socials and work in this regard is also on."

The department have come up with another plan to rub the chili powder on the fences around army barracks. And Mr Srivastava said: "The chili paste could also act as a major repellent against wild elephants.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/ ... i-grenade/

This is HOT stuff..

Up next - an Indian alternative for the pepper spray - 'the Chilli Spray'

wonder if we could use Headley as our first test subject...

On a serious note.. Thats one UNIQUE bomb!!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 20 Mar 2010 11:51

Drat! there goes my quota of chilly pickles I get from my relatives in Assam.

This variety will now not be available for domestic use since the whole crop will be taken away to make these grenades!

My sacrifice for the Nation!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Mar 2010 12:44

Brigadier on wheelchair to be major general
He is the same person who, accompanied by a major general and six colonels, was denied to recieve the body of Capt Jass of 1 PARA. That was when they all had went in their uniforms and had agreed to full body search. Brigadier Razdan had even shown his Kirti Chakra.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 20 Mar 2010 20:21

Gaur wrote:Brigadier on wheelchair to be major general
He is the same person who, accompanied by a major general and six colonels, was denied to recieve the body of Capt Jass of 1 PARA. That was when they all had went in their uniforms and had agreed to full body search. Brigadier Razdan had even shown his Kirti Chakra.

A brave man. It is people like this gentleman who keep this country going. I salute you sir!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Mar 2010 20:29

nukavarapu wrote:
Gaur wrote:He is the same person who, accompanied by a major general and six colonels, was denied to recieve the body of Capt Jass of 1 PARA. That was when they all had went in their uniforms and had agreed to full body search. Brigadier Razdan had even shown his Kirti Chakra.
A humble request onleee, can you be more elaborative?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/offic ... ty/584692/
This news was posted here a few weeks ago.

Rampy · Post by **Rampy** » 20 Mar 2010 22:35

^^^ Bhut Jhaloka is already in use for tear Gas by DRDO. I have to look for the article

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 21 Mar 2010 06:03

Howitzer procurement update..

the US too came forward with a proposal to supply BAE's M777A2 guns to India and the process of procurement is in its final stages.

Sources said apart from the ultra light howitzers, the trails for the wheeled self-propelled guns would commence next month in which Slovakian firm Konstrukta and German company Rhienmetall would compete for the supply of 180 guns to India.

India had issued a global tender for the 155mm/52 calibre wheeled self-propelled guns and only the Slovakian and German firms were shortlisted out of the five which received the tenders.

Another trial for the 155mm/52calibre towed guns in which ST Kinetics and United Kingdom's BAE Systems would compete is to take place in a couple of months, after the Singapore firm sought time to bring its guns for the test following damage to the one it was bringing to India during loading.

Under the global tender issued for the towed guns, India had projected that it would buy 400 of them off-the-shelf from the selected firm and another 780 would be manufactured in India through technology transfer to one of the Ordnance Factories.

The fourth procurement would be the 155mm/52 calibre tracked self-propelled guns for which the Army has projected a requirement of 100 units.

The purchase of these tracked guns would be done through a global tender, which is currently under formulation of technical parameters, Defence Ministry sources added.

http://www.brahmand.com/news/India-all- ... /3/10.html

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 21 Mar 2010 06:12

pandyan wrote:Bhut Jolokia is getting a lot of attention lately in the massa network. There was a show in travel or food channel where they showed a company selling hot sauces made of bhut jolokia. They command a premium pricing So, there is a premium export market for it as well.

Yeah, and the only downside is they rob from the poor and make themselves richer. They export the seeds from India by paying IN RS, and then "sow the seeds in the States" and sell it for an ASTRONOMICAL price!!!
and their defense is look at what we have to pay to get it exported here !!!! BS!!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 21 Mar 2010 07:01

Definition of Optimism...

Long-term plan to indigenously manufacture all major defence equipment'

Vice-Chief of Army Staff Lt General P C Bharadwaj on Saturday said India had a long-term plan to indigenously manufacture all major defence equipment used in combat zones as part of its modernisation programme.

"Modernisation is a very high priority matter. We are looking up to 2027. All the services (Army, Navy and Airforce) have drawn up their plans," Bharadwaj told reporters on the sidelines of the passing out parade at Officers Training Academy. He said India has progressed in a big way in making indigenous defence equipment like Brahmos supersonic cruise missile and said a lot of technical equipment used in battle is being produced indigenously.

2027 !!!!! I hope some of are still alive to see that dream "actually" materialize.. Oh.. if it does happen in 2027, I might get lucky

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Mar 2010 10:46

There is not enough time. 2015/2020 is the maximum

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 21 Mar 2010 10:48

T-72 tank barrels can double up as howitzers barrels as an interim measure,
is it worth a DRDO project?

negi · Post by **negi** » 21 Mar 2010 11:05

^ T-72 barrels are smooth bore (no rifling) i.e. suitable for firing fin stabilized sabot rounds , regulation ARTY shells do not have fins so stabilization and hence accuracy might be an issue .

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 21 Mar 2010 11:20

^ good reason to invest in precision guided artillery shell research like Excalibur, from missile program developments INS is being introduced on a single chip (System on Chip)

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 22 Mar 2010 01:46

Cross Posting from "Women In Combat" Thread.

Women in the Armed Forces: misconceptions and facts
By Maj Gen Mrinal Suman

Common misconceptions and facts

It is an erroneous impression that there is a shortage of male volunteers for the services. As per the report of the Union Public Service Commission for 2006-07, there were a total of 5,49,365 candidates for 1724 vacancies for all civil services examinations with an Applicants to Post Ratio (APR) of 319. On the other hand, 3,41,818 candidates applied for 793 vacancies in the National Defence Academy (NDA), maintaining APR at a healthy 431. It implies that for every seat in NDA there were 431 applicants. Therefore, it is a fallacy that male volunteers are insufficient. It is just that the services seek very exacting standards for males ...

So how do we reduce the Officer Shortfall? Lower the standards? This has nothing to do with Women Officers. I'm just curious as to how the Army is expected to increase the number of officers if the number of people applying is more than enough, but most candidates are just not up to the mark. That is why I asked the question here.

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 22 Mar 2010 15:12

nachiket wrote:Cross Posting from "Women In Combat" Thread.
Women in the Armed Forces: misconceptions and facts
By Maj Gen Mrinal Suman

Common misconceptions and facts

It is an erroneous impression that there is a shortage of male volunteers for the services. As per the report of the Union Public Service Commission for 2006-07, there were a total of 5,49,365 candidates for 1724 vacancies for all civil services examinations with an Applicants to Post Ratio (APR) of 319. On the other hand, 3,41,818 candidates applied for 793 vacancies in the National Defence Academy (NDA), maintaining APR at a healthy 431. It implies that for every seat in NDA there were 431 applicants. Therefore, it is a fallacy that male volunteers are insufficient. It is just that the services seek very exacting standards for males ...
So how do we reduce the Officer Shortfall? Lower the standards? This has nothing to do with Women Officers. I'm just curious as to how the Army is expected to increase the number of officers if the number of people applying is more than enough, but most candidates are just not up to the mark. That is why I asked the question here.

IMHO the SSB has to rethink its procedures, no im not talking about lowering standards. In the last decace our society has undergone a huge change, today parents and schools dont encourage children to take up games and other extra curricular so naturally the general character of youngsters is changing. Also, earlier one SSB GTO would judge about five or six boys, now it is not less than fifty(because the no. of candidates has incresed manifold and SSB itself also suffers from manpower shortage). SSB and its equivalent in other countries like UK , US has been evolving, where as here in india, my grand father, my father and even me,went through the exactly the same process(in my batch out of 250 only four were selected...i was one of those lucky pigs

, where as when my father appeared for the SSB out of 30 only 4 were rejected

).

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Mar 2010 15:51

NehraA wrote: in india, my grand father, my father and even me,went through the exactly the same process(in my batch out of 250 only four were selected...i was one of those lucky pigs , where as when my father appeared for the SSB out of 30 only 4 were rejected ).

This is a very valid point. I refuse to believe that over the years the quality of our youth has gone down and if the arguement is that, only poor quality people are applying for the seats, I find that tenous at the best.

By the way congrats Nehra...

and hope you are not related to cricketer in some way...

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 22 Mar 2010 16:09

The point made above about the SSB is quite right. On one hand the military is crying over lack of officers and on the other hand you have nearly 400:1 ratio of applicants applying! Western militaries would kill for that kind of recruitment interest from their youth. As India becomes wealthier, that ratio is going to drop drastically and if the SSB can't find a decent candidate out of nearly 400 applicants per vacancy, the entire process is moribund and needs to be done away with.

**DELETED**

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Mar 2010 16:21

Have you ever been for an SSB? Have you ever seen the type of people applying?

They really are not very good. Out of those 400, perhaps 10 only are of a caliber sufficient to become an officer.

I am not speaking of urban/rural/class bias. The applicants just arent very good!

I guess in part, it is because of increase in education of the masses. Earlier, only people from better homes managed to make it to a university education!

On the other hand, the SSB process is a bit vague. I dont understand it. DRDO's DIPSAR apparently trains officers to become GTOs, and develops the psycho tests etc.

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Mar 2010 16:37

Brando wrote: Maybe they can pick and choose these Officer qualities are people are "born with" and grow them in some "officer farm" like cattle

Brando wrote: because right now the process is a farce. Without sorting out the entry process, it doesnt matter if they give commissions to women, men or the transgendered ! It will still be utterly screwed up!

ASPuar wrote:Have you ever been for an SSB? Have you ever seen the type of people applying?

Yes

ASPuar wrote: They really are not very good. Out of those 400, perhaps 10 only are of a caliber sufficient to become an officer.

I am not speaking of urban/rural/class bias. The applicants just arent very good!

With all due respect Sir, this is an oversimplification. Even if for a moment if take this to be true even then the fig should be 10 and not 3.

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 22 Mar 2010 17:06

Brando wrote:. If the SSB guy feels he likes you, you're in, if he's having a bad day you are pretty much screwed! The term they use to somehow legitimize this mystical process is defined as OLQs

quite right..
...this is what i was trying to convey, some times one board gets about 300 candidates per day, and some times all of those 300 are rejected at stage 1. It all depends on the judgement of a few officers. I am not questioning their judgement as such (because only those officers are posted at ssb who themselves have an outstanding ssb result at the time of their own selection), but the huge number of candidates may possibly be reason why everyone doesnt get judged fairly.
The ssb prides itself on having not changed even a bit since ww2..(except the addition of stage 1 ie the screening phase ..)
i would say that the only sollution is to make thd UPSC exams tougher so that the number of those who clear the written is reduced significantly. And someone from the brass should seriously look at overhauling the whole system..may be hiring a few professional sociologists to see where the problem is. Looking at other armies wont hurt.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Mar 2010 18:38

anirban_aim wrote:
With all due respect Sir, this is an oversimplification. Even if for a moment if take this to be true even then the fig should be 10 and not 3.

Im afraid I havent followed your calculations.

Anyway, I was responding to Brando's post, not to you. Im just saying that a (very) large number of people applying are not up to the mark. If you disagree, fine. Its frankly no skin off my back. Its just my opinion.

I agree that the system is arcane, and often doesnt make sense. The norms for ascertaining OLQ's etc are set by DIPSAR, and taught to the trainee GTO's.

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Mar 2010 18:52

ASPuar wrote:I'm just saying that a (very) large number of people applying are not up to the mark. If you disagree, fine. Its frankly no skin off my back. Its just my opinion.

I agree that the system is arcane, and often doesnt make sense.

Point Taken.

pmund · Post by **pmund** » 22 Mar 2010 20:09

With due respect to everyone on board, how many of the posters have appeared in an SSB? and how many have passed? Before passing sweeping judgements on the selection procedure, why not ask the men (or women) who have been there and done that. I can say it takes far more than an officer's gut feeling for someone to be selected in an SSB. If the 'wrong types' were ending up in military academies, you would have a huge dropout percentage. You already need to be one-third a soldier to make it through training. And that's what the SSB selectors look for. They look for people who have that little extra to be moulded into leaders. It's often a fine line, i agree, but very very rarely is the line crossed the wrong way. I hope no one accuses SSBs of favouritism next. Many may not know this, but the niece of a serving C-in-C was rejected in Allahabad. Why don't we ask the SSB-pass types on this forum for their opinion?

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Mar 2010 20:40

Pmund while this is not the right thread anecdotal references do not count for instance I have heard quite a few ex service personnel or even those in service say " services are not what they used to be they don't attract as many good men as in my days " sounds like more of a rant to me but the point is every system can be gamed and bad apples exist everywhere and SSB is no exception to that , the major issue is SSB process as such is completely opaque when it comes to an appraisal of a candidate and at least this in this aspect it has remained unchanged since its inception during the British Raj , most of the grievances can be traced back to this aspect alone .

As far as attracting good/quality men is concerned again I don't believe it , if services cannot find enough good men from a pool of second largest population in the world (may be largest in terms of % of young men in age group 15-25yrs) and despite offering a pretty decent package as remuneration then there is something seriously wrong with their approach towards selecting candidates .Again to clarify imho it is more to do with the lengthy and otherwise dated process involving inviting applications, conducting exams , SSB interview and finally preparing the merit list and sending communication to the candidates .
If services and UPSC can revisit above aspects alone I am sure they would improve their chances of attracting many more candidates .