Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Mar 2010 23:59

Rahul M wrote: refuellers will be mainly used to keep the critical assets (AEW&C, F-16's) in the air for a longer time for a protective cover....

Rahul,
Tx!

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Mar 2010 00:01

Rahul M wrote: btw most of the port infra in gujarat and oil infra in gujarat and rajasthan (upcoming with the cairns project) are well in range of PAF. of course IAF is well aware of that and takes adequate precautions.

iirc didn't we see sometime back some weird theory about the PAF trying to hit bengaluru on a one way mission by flying lo-lo-lo all the way but on a wide arc away from the coastline and 99% over the arabian sea. The idea seemed totally whacko (still is!) but with refuellers based way out in the arabian sea, would it be a greater possibility now than if they just tried it as a one way soosai mission with loaded up drop tanks?

Of course, we would like the IN to take shots at them like kids with a undigol

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 22 Mar 2010 00:15

India embarrassed by ad that puts New Delhi in Pakistan

Must say the ad agency can't be blamed for being confused on the matter.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 22 Mar 2010 00:37

US may offer India-like nuke deal to Pakistan

The first indication of a possible policy shift by US, which had till now rejected Pakistan's entreaties for a nuclear deal, came in an interview the US ambassador to Islamabad, Anne Patterson, gave to a Pakistani-American journal in which she said the two sides were going to have "working level talks" on the subject during a strategic dialogue on March 24.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Mar 2010 00:50

Also the refuellers allow the pakistan AF to undertake a one way bombing run of mumbai or southern indian cities. Also allows them to try and attack indian positions in Leh and beyond by using chinese airspace, if one considers that their launch off point is skardu.

As to weather they will ever do this is open to question. The PAF is the more saner of the three forces in Pakistan. One possible scenario is an attempt to deliver N weapons.

Or to try and attack an Indian Naval CBG deep in the arabian sea.

But looking at Google earth, one comes to the conclusion that the pakistanis have more number of military airfields closer to the border than India. Although each airfield has perhaps a quarter of the aircraft strength as on the Indian side. On the Indian side, there is a big gap between the gujarat airbases and the ones in central Rajasthan. Otherwise, the IAF bases and Air defense units placement means that the PAF won't be able to penetrate much into indian airspace, probably not beyond 50 Km, and certainly not beyond 100Km.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 22 Mar 2010 00:59

A_Gupta wrote: We all wish we could miss Pakistan, wonder where it has vanished, why we haven't heard from it so long!

i dont know what you mean sir. but i'm happy for NS. she went she observed and as far as her last filing and this interview goes, she had the balls to report what she saw. demagoguery, rumor mongering, manufactured victimization, etc etc. these are aspects which keen observers of tsp here in brf computed without ever setting foot in tsp. NS went there and actually verified these findings.

dont you see the anguish in her voice? she wants her theory of nice and peace and humans and rationalism to desperately work, but everything she has seen in pakistan is a proof of the opposite. NS went there and came back with exactly the same conclusions. more importantly she had the balls to say what she actually observed.

and she told it, god bless her heart, to a pakistani audience. now i have no hopes that any pakistani will ever listen to her or understand what she was talking about. but for me as an indian her feedback is valuable. i have always imagined all these the-hindu types to be blinded by theories. but NS has shown that she is seeing clearly.

IMHO she is a hero.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 22 Mar 2010 01:04

VinodTK wrote:US may offer India-like nuke deal to Pakistan

The first indication of a possible policy shift by US, which had till now rejected Pakistan's entreaties for a nuclear deal, came in an interview the US ambassador to Islamabad, Anne Patterson, gave to a Pakistani-American journal in which she said the two sides were going to have "working level talks" on the subject during a strategic dialogue on March 24.

I am pretty damn sure that this will shut down Indian market for any american goods be it fighter a/c, nuke reactors or possibly other equipments for atleast 20 years in time.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Mar 2010 01:11

The key word is India-like. There is no way that pakistan's negotiators are capable enough and have the backing and the depth of Indian nuclear scientists in the hugely complex negotiations with the US or at the NSG.

The US did attempt one last forceful CRE on India during 123. How will pakistan withstand the US?

Most likely what is being touted as an 'India like N deal' will be the final CRE of N bum program in return for a few N reactors from massa.

As it is pakistan's 'nukes' (radiation warheads with weapons usable - not weapons grade, HEU and are not exactly state of the art) are seperated from the triggers and massa has PALed both the triggers and the cores, so that moving either will make massa aware.
Massa has snatch and recover teams based in Afghanistan.

Pakistan's centrifuge program is probably under lock and key too. If what the pakistanis have been hollering about the US presence in Sihala and around Tarbela are what they seem to be, then this means that massa has already gained control.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Mar 2010 01:27

AG, glad to be of service.

tsriram wrote:
Rahul M wrote: btw most of the port infra in gujarat and oil infra in gujarat and rajasthan (upcoming with the cairns project) are well in range of PAF. of course IAF is well aware of that and takes adequate precautions.
iirc didn't we see sometime back some weird theory about the PAF trying to hit bengaluru on a one way mission by flow lo-lo-lo all the way but on a wide arc away from the coastline and 99% over the arabian sea. The idea seemed totally whacko (still is!) but with refuellers based way out in the arabian sea, would it be a greater possibility now than if they just tried it as a one way soosai mission with loaded up drop tanks?

Of course, we would like the IN to take shots at them like kids with a undigol

the idea is total bulls..., err, an example of the paki genius.

they will be fried well before they cross Indian airspace. let's not forget the baloons floating up in the air on the western border and IAF's ever growing appetite for radars.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Mar 2010 01:59

Rahul M wrote:AG, glad to be of service.
the idea is total bulls..., err, an example of the paki genius.
they will be fried well before they cross Indian airspace. let's not forget the baloons floating up in the air on the western border and IAF's ever growing appetite for radars.

How dare you call paki ideas bs hain?

it is tactically brilliant

but seriously speaking, they will now be able to do wider arcs such as the scenario mentioned above, higher up near the himalayas. but again, we have a very high concentration of air defense up north. so bummer there too. would love to get my hands on the notes of seeniyar paf afsars discussing how to put the refuellers to use

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Mar 2010 02:14

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... _bollywood
Of course, Pakistanis, especially in the cities, never gave up on their love for Indian culture: They continued to smuggle VHS tapes of Indian films into the country, and they bought satellite dishes to watch Indian programs. More recently, cable operators began to sometimes broadcast Indian TV shows, concealing the logos so that the shows would look like local broadcasts and evade the authorities' attention. Although Pakistani children couldn't watch Bollywood movies in the cinema, they still read the Urdu versions of Indian gossip magazines like Stardust and followed Bollywood fashions as much as they were allowed.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Mar 2010 02:20

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... _bollywood

And in few other places has the United States spent so much money so thoughtlessly in the past. In The Idea of Pakistan, historian Stephen P. Cohen concludes that decades of U.S. aid strengthened the hand of Pakistan's Army without making it pro-American and had economic consequences no less ambiguous, bolstering elites and self-appointed middlemen. And just as White Houses in the past had given Pakistan's rulers lavish rewards for support in the Cold War, so George W. Bush's administration gave the country's military $10 billion in barely supervised funds in exchange for pledges of support in the war on terror -- pledges that were honored more in the breach than in observance. Bribery is one rationale for foreign aid -- Hans Morgenthau, that pitiless realist, argued that it was the only sound rationale -- but not when the party in question refuses to stay bribed.
Bribery, in any case, is no longer enough. The AfPak strategy constitutes a recognition that U.S. national security now depends upon producing internal change in states -- the kind of change development assistance (as opposed to, say, regime change) is designed to bring about. One of the least plausible aspects of that strategy is the expectation, in Afghanistan, that the "civilian surge" will have begun making a difference by the time U.S. troops begin to draw down, in mid-2011. The Pakistan policy requires no such short-term miracle; indeed, the five-year time frame of Kerry-Lugar-Berman is meant to signal to Pakistanis that the U.S. commitment will not be episodic, as it has been in the past.

The money will start flowing in the next few months, and when it does, it will look very different from the aid program of recent years. Congress has earmarked $3.5 billion for "high impact, high visibility infrastructure programs" -- power plants, highways, water treatment facilities, and the like. In recent decades, aid dogma has focused on "capacity building" rather than the building of things. Now it's China that constructs dams and railroads in Africa (and Pakistan) -- and gets the credit for it. Leaving aside the respective merits of these two approaches, people can see the effect of dams a lot more easily than they can the effects of "technical assistance." When Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, first began traveling around the country, he and his team got an "earful," according to a State Department official, from Pakistanis who said that U.S. aid was effectively invisible. "Our aid was not supporting our political objectives," he told me. That is, it wasn't making a dent in the overwhelming hostility that many citizens feel toward the United States, which is a huge handicap in persuading Pakistan to confront the militants.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Mar 2010 03:03

Another 4 pest-e-shaheeded by the national bird in Pakistan.
US drone strike kills four in NW Pakistan: security officials

"A US drone fired two missiles on a militant compound near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. Four militants were killed," a senior security official told AFP.

"It is not immediately clear if there was any important target," he added.

National bird continues to shower blessings on the pakistanis

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 22 Mar 2010 03:42

Pakistan simply sees no reason to stop supporting terrorists

The disruption of the India-Pakistan peace process, which has remained frozen since the time of the Mumbai attack, is due principally to Pakistan’s unwillingness to bring to justice the Lashkar-e-Taiba leadership, which has enjoyed the support of the country’s powerful intelligence organization, Inter-Services Intelligence. After almost two decades of punting, many Pakistanis today – academics, policy analysts, and even government officials – concede that the fomenting of insurgencies inside Indian territory has been a main component of Pakistan’s national strategy. However, this late admission only comes long after Pakistan’s military establishment has moved to replace its failed strategy of encouraging anti-Indian insurgencies with the more lethal approach of unleashing terrorist groups against its neighbor.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Mar 2010 03:47

shaardula wrote:IMHO she is a hero.

Yes, and she will be even more of one if she can tell The Hindu publisher where he can go.

I was simply along with Ms N.S. hoping, wishing that we could all have the life-altering experience of well and truly missing Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2010 06:31

ashish raval wrote: I am pretty damn sure that this will shut down Indian market for any american goods be it fighter a/c, nuke reactors or possibly other equipments for atleast 20 years in time.

And it will be back to the Nehru-jacket of the 1960 where we had even less leverage on the US than we do now. Pakistan has a tax base of 1% and 40% power theft. Let them get nuclear power. We cannot punish the US in any way unless we have a handle on them and some way to manipulate them. Right now the only thing that the US depends on India for is a series of lectures on morality. Available pirated or regular.

If we want influence with the US we have to deal with them.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2010 06:56

JE Menon wrote: How have we been shafted?

I see the widespread feeling that "India has been shafted" as an indicator that people are beginning to wake up to geopolitical reality. India may or may not have been shafted, but the ability to see shafts aimed at India's backside may translate into a future ability to see how others can get shafted and how to hold on to someone else's shaft and direct it at a third party.

India's Nehruvian "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" mindset was not some distant government policy - it is part of a national ethos - a national conscience that makes Indians behave in a narrowly moralistic way, expecting similar Panchatantra like morality in others' behavior towards us.

That is not the way the world works.

"Mummmeeeee! Prakash hit me and Anil is his friend. I won't speak to Anil ever again." is how we react to international situations. That only enables Prakash and Anil to keep on conspiring against me. Unlike the fairy tale ending of kiddies tales where Mummeee scolds Prakash and Anil or a Rishi appears and does magic to set things right. Five thousand year old mindset from a land that knew peace and is unable to understand when real trouble comes from alien thought processes.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 22 Mar 2010 07:00

Army Chief Driving Pakistan’s Agenda for Talks

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 22 Mar 2010 07:07

Just watched opening of the interview with NS. The host is quite padhi-likhi-anpadh

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2010 07:10

I meant that the Paki host (not Nirupama) was doing == in that interview.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2010 07:19

Limits of military power

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -power-230

IN a rare press briefing last month, Gen Ashfaq Kayani said the success of military operations in the tribal regions have caused a substantial decline in cross-border attacks on Nato forces in Afghanistan and warned that it was essential to address Pakistan’s long-term strategic concerns for stability in the region.

A month later, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh concluded a historic three-day visit to Saudi Arabia and signed 10 bilateral agreements and the Riyadh Declaration. In a rare honour, Manmohan Singh was invited to address the Majlis-ash-Shura, the Saudi parliament, where he not only sought investments from the Islamic kingdom but also pressed the need for Pakistan to “act decisively against terrorism”. Earlier, when he landed in Riyadh, Singh was accorded an unprecedented welcome when, setting aside protocol, the Saudi crown prince and the entire cabinet turned up at the airport to receive him.

...

These events are not necessarily related but deserve a thoughtful analysis by Pakistan’s security establishment which has nothing much to boast about except a series of historic blunders and massive policy failures since 1958.

In the recent months, the Pakistan Army’s leadership has shown a newfound confidence as a direct consequence of the success of its military campaigns in the northwest. The writ of the state of Pakistan appears to be extending to the areas that were lost or were never under its writ. Emboldened by its illusory success, the army’s high command has once again taken to actively and publicly calling the shots in all areas of governance from domestic polity to conducting strategic dialogue with Washington, to even matters like scolding Punjab’s chief minister over the latter’s extremely irresponsible remarks about Taliban leaving Punjab alone.

However, somebody ought to tell Gen Kayani: not so fast! The army leadership would do well to remember some lessons from Pakistan’s and contemporary international history.

1. Economic strength and size is the primary and the ultimate source of power. Note how Japan and Russia have been demoted to second-rate powers since the 1970s.

2. Pursuit of projection of military power beyond the economic capacity of a nation has disastrous consequences. The collapse of the Warsaw Pact alliance and then that of the Soviet Union in the 1980s and the decline of the US in the last decade clearly show this.

3. The participation of the military in the formulation and conduct of foreign policy may seem an illusory necessity but the Russian experience in the 1980s, Pentagon’s failures in Afghanistan and the Pakistan Army’s own debacles including the defeat in 1971, the heavy price of the Afghan jihad, Kashmir’s tragic fall from a freedom movement to a ‘terrorist problem’, and Kargil’s humiliating experience are stark reminders of what happens when generals suffer from megalomaniac ambitions that stretch their intellectual and military capabilities.

We must keep these lessons in mind as we face the gravest crisis since 1971. The so-called war on terror and a serious economic crunch have brought Pakistan to the brink again. The state is now imploding from within primarily because the establishment has considered submission to external hegemony a convenient means to rule. Since it does not derive its power and legitimacy from the people, it has shown callous disregard for even the security and minimal needs of its people. This is evident from years of autocratic governance, economic plunder, and neglect in building infrastructure. Yesterday, India was the threat and today Afghanistan has become an excuse to put aside nation-building economic development on the back burner.

Pakistan can learn a lot from the East Asian experience, particularly from China’s policy to focus on economic development and put conflicts in cold storage. Pakistan must put its house in order now and make economic development its most important domestic and foreign policy objective. This process must start with a gradual disengagement from the conflicts in Afghanistan and Kashmir and redefining ‘security’ to include energy, water and food security as being more important, and reallocation of resources through a restructuring of the armed forces with more emphasis on brains than brawn. What a brilliant prime minister and a few scientists achieved for Pakistan’s nuclear programme could not have been accomplished by all the army divisions and corps commanders combined.

...

Otherwise the country’s progress will remain a mirage with a higher and growing risk of failure as a state. Peace, independent foreign policy and a plural democracy have to be the pillars of a modern Pakistan that is not a client, debt-ridden security state with a large, illiterate and impoverished population.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2010 07:25

IPI: the Baloch perspective

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ective-230

Baloch opposition to such a trans-national pipeline was voiced as far back as 2005 when veteran Baloch nationalist Akbar Khan Bugti said that “only the goodwill of the Baloch people can allow the proposed gas pipeline from Iran and Central Asia to India to pass through their soil”. He was killed by Pakistan’s security forces in August 2006.

In June of that year, members of the treasury and the opposition benches in the Balochistan Assembly exhibited unprecedented unity and passed a resolution seeking royalty for the province in the proposed multi-billion dollar IPI gas pipeline project. Further, the assembly also demanded Balochistan’s representation in the IPI talks, free gas for adjacent populations, a 100 per cent job share and a major share in any royalty paid by India.

Currently, however, the proposed gas pipeline project does not envisage any economic or social benefits for Balochistan’s under-privileged population. The pipeline will be constructed by international companies that can use high-tech equipment, security will be provided by federal forces such as the Frontier Corps, which is a non-Baloch paramilitary force, and all the available jobs — including technical ones — will go to qualified and technically-sound people from other provinces, since they have the opportunities and the resources to attain high-quality education.

Furthermore, there is no constitutional or legal guarantee that royalty in any form, including security, jobs or gas, will be supplied to the people of Balochistan.

The Baloch people have not had encouraging experiences as regards Islamabad’s policies and promises. Despite having provided fuel to the national economy for years, the province has only 3.4 per cent of the country’s gas consumers — as opposed to Punjab’s 67 per cent, which produces only 4.7 per cent of the gas.

...

Iran will sell gas to Pakistan for $7 per MMBtu ( one million British thermal unit) if the Japanese Crude Cocktail (JCC) price is $50 per barrel, and $9.4 per MMBtu and $13 per MMBtu if the JCC price touches $70 and $100 per barrel respectively. The price does not include infrastructure, security and other costs.

The imported gas price would be 10 to 20 times more costly than the gas forcefully extracted from Balochistan and Sindh by the central government. Pakistan Petroleum Limited currently pays only 63 cents per MMBtu for Balochistan’s high heating-value gas.

However, those 63 cents go to the central government’s kitty and Balochistan receives only a 12.5 per cent royalty against the gas produced.

The level of discrimination and exploitation of Baloch wealth can be gauged by these figures: Balochistan produces $1.4bn worth of gas annually but receives only $116m in royalties.Islamabad has always been short-sighted about its economic and political policies.

...

Until there is a positive breakthrough in the Balochistan conflict, the ambitious IPI gas pipeline venture will remain a pipe dream.

The writer is a former senator and research fellow at the Inter-Parliamentary Union, Geneva.

[email protected]

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2010 07:33

Pakistan to seek US funding for energy projects

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27910

“We would tell the US authorities to help boost Pakistan’s GDP growth to between 6 to 8 per cent per year to help create 36 million jobs during the next 10 years, as the existing 3 to 3.5 per cent GDP growth will continue to raise resultantly the youth would have more tendency to play in the hands of the militants and extremists and this would not help restore peace and tranquillity on durable basis in the region which would ultimately shake up the peace of the whole world,” a senior official of Ministry of Foreign Affairs revealed to The News.

Pakistan is also to seek US intervention to help resolve the water disputes between Pakistan and India

...

Pakistan is in dire need of 6 to 8 per cent GDP growth for which it wants US role in getting the energy security and massive technical assistance in enhancing the agriculture produce.Islamabad wants massive investment from the US in the power sector and civil nuclear cooperation. There are some positive indications that the US wants to help in a big way in LNG (liquefied natural gas) sector.

Another indication is that the US administration is going to table the energy bill amounting to $1 billion for Pakistan in US Congress, said the official. Pakistan received nothing so far from US $125 million announced by Hillary Clinton during her visit to Pakistan in October 2009 to bail out the country from power crisis on a short-term basis.

“Since then we have received nothing for the overhaul of the Terbela dams’ turbines, four electric power generation companies (Gencos) and 11000 tube wells motors,” a senior official at the ministry of water and power told The News.

“Now we are going to take up this issue with the US authorities during the Pak-US strategic dialogue to be held at March 24 in Wessington.” The official said that Pakistan would also seek $400 million for Munda dam, which is to produce 740 megawatt of electricity. He said that for Gomal Zam dam, Pakistan would seek $40 million.

The dam will be completed built in DI Khan and will generate 17 MW of electricity. The official also said that Islamabad would also seek $70 million for the proposed natural gas production and efficiency project.

For Satpara dam that is to generate 17 MW of electricity, we will persuade the US authorities to come up with $10 million as co-financing for the project. For the proposed wind energy project of 100 MW that is to be installed in the coastal area of Sindh, we are going to seek $27 million.

Islamabad during the dialogue will also seek $65 million help for Mangla rehabilitation. Once the rehabilitation gets completed, the country would have additional 30 MW of electricity from Mangla dam. In addition, for Warsak dam, Pakistan will seek $35 million. The dam’s hydro generation will surge up to 140MW from existing 65 MW.

Pakistan would seek increase in demographic coverage of the RoZs and changes in rules of origin also. In the already proposed draft, US wants the establishment of RoZs at Waziristan, FATA and border areas with Afghanistan. Since the war against militants is under way in these areas and no one knows how long it will continue, so Islamabad has decided to include other parts of the country for the setting up of RoZs.

Man! These guys are professional beggars.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2010 07:38

India now plans to buy gas from Iran via deep-sea

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27912

India in less than a week of signing the gas pipeline deal between Pakistan and Iran has planned to take gas from Iran but bypassing Pakistan at a dearer tariff. New Delhi has also spoken of Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) gas pipeline that it abandoned to harm Pakistan.

Indian sources have claimed that in light of the freeze in ties with Islamabad, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) has advised its government to walk out of the proposed IPI gas pipeline but continue talks with Tehran for a deep-sea pipeline that avoids Pakistan.

“In view of the complicated relationship between India and Pakistan, the MEA does not advise meeting between India and Pakistan for further discussions on the project. The deep-sea pipeline option may not involve Pakistan and, therefore, the same can be pursued,” The Indian MEA officials said at a meeting last week to decide India’s position on the IPI pipeline.

Endorsing MEA’s position, officials from the Indian National Security Council (NSC) Secretariat cautioned that the IPI pipeline would be a potential target of India-centric terror groups in Pakistan. Interestingly the Indian NSC is headed by a Pakistan basher Shiv Shankar Menon who till recently was foreign secretary of his country and earlier served as high commissioner of his country in Pakistan.

...

While the meeting was told that “Iran is internationally isolated due to continuing sanctions, any wholehearted engagement in Iran may emerge as an area of friction between India and the West, there was a unanimity that in view of the energy security of the country, India does need to continue engagement with Iran”.

Besides providing “first-mover advantage” on exploration and LNG projects there, the panel agreed that India’s engagement with Iran, an important oil and gas player, would open the option of laying another on-land pipeline up to Iran-Pakistan border from where a sub-sea pipe would be laid to India. The sub-sea pipe would be laid in international waters away from the coast. It could make the proposition cost wise impossible.

Delhi will approach Tehran for meetings of the Indo-Iran Joint Working Group on Oil & Gas and the Joint Working Group on IPI Project in May, said an India official. An Indian expert who has less knowledge of pipeline affairs is of the view that the pipelines combination will be shorter than the proposed IPI pipeline; result in lower pipeline cost and transport tariff, he said.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Mar 2010 07:46

The language used in these "mainstream" news agencies, be it newspapers or television, is appalling to say the least. Not that we expect any better from the pakis but still for a nation that claims to be all that it isn't, one would expect a modicum of decorrum while writing articles for newspapers. And it is not just the above two articles either. Shrill and her coterie seem to be using the dictionary to no end to ring up synonyms for India's actions and indians in general. Not to be I guess.

Just another glorious paki tradition I guess. I wonder what the primary school english teacher would say if I had included phrases like pakistan basher and such in my essays

Pakis!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Mar 2010 07:47

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=230427
Improbable even as fiction
Duffer Hilaly

In India we have Manmohan Singh, a well meaning Sikh in a Brahmin stronghold, with little political clout or independent political standing. A boffin turned politician. And however respected he deservedly is, as an economist and the leading spirit behind India’s economic revival, his hold on the hearts of the masses is non-existent. Besides, where Pakistan is concerned Manmohan Singh has shot his bolt. He has used up all his credit by refusing to attack Pakistan after Mumbai and has nothing left to oppose those who will bray for war when the next terror attack occurs.His sponsor, Sonia Gandhi, is a foreigner who sensibly declined taking office as prime minister, knowing that India is a state where being fair is prized but being white is not. A former countryman of hers once said that “the practice of politics in India, as in Italy, has always been the systematic organisation of hatreds.” Sonia Gandhi cannot, even if she wants to, buck the “attack-Pakistan” consensus that has India in its grip. In our case we have Mr Zardari who, for all the good and noble sentiments he has expressed about furthering relations with India, is about as credible as the proverbial male ant which, when discovered crawling up an elephant’s leg and asked of its intent replied: “Rape.”Hence politicians and an establishment that have in the past preferred delusion to reality have the floor in both countries. Stopping them playing out their delusions will be hard. But not to do so would be disastrous.

All the talk and this BC Paki forgets NSA running around with their couzins.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Mar 2010 07:48

A good beginning

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=230424

Talat Masood

There are of course other issues such as violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty by the use of drones that have a serious moral, legal and sovereignty dimension that cannot be brushed aside because of their short-term tactical gains. Then there is the serious problem of Pakistan’s image in the US wherein the print and the electronic media continues to project it as a villain and a scapegoat for other’s failures. An equally disturbing image of the US exists in Pakistan wherein it is viewed as anti-Islamic and biased against Pakistan. However sincere the governments may be in their efforts to bring the two countries closer, they can never succeed unless the public is supportive of it. Washington’s heavy tilt in favour of India and its helplessness in nudging India to seriously address Kashmir and other issues is another source of friction. Pakistan also cannot kowtow America’s Afghanistan policy either unless it takes into account Pakistan’s security and strategic concerns.

...

Despite the fact that Pakistan has an elected civilian government for the last two years, it has yet to come to grips with foreign, defence and even domestic policies while the military holds sway. A recent manifestation of how far the civilian leadership has to travel to be relevant was demonstrated when the COAS called all the bureaucrats to GHQ for a preparatory meeting of the strategic dialogue. Questions that are being raised are is it the lack of capacity or interest or both of them and that if the army is far too powerful and deeply entrenched in the power structure to abandon its traditional role.

...

In concrete terms, Pakistan would be asking of Washington to expedite the release of blocked funds, provision of military hardware especially helicopters, surveillance equipment etc. to enhance its counter-insurgency capacity and overall defence capability. There is no possibility of the US agreeing to a nuclear deal with Pakistan. It is nonetheless probable that it could, by a statement or oblique reference, acknowledge Pakistan as a de-facto nuclear power. This could allay the widespread perception that the US wants to de-fang Pakistan’s nuclear capability.

The Indo-US nuclear deal and other defence cooperation agreements including the support for BMD systems to India has been a source of serious anxiety in Pakistan. It would be advisable if the US would persuade India to engage in bilateral talks to cover strategic restraint regime and other risk reduction measures. For Washington to seek capping of fissile material or restraining Pakistan’s nuclear programme would be unrealistic when it continues to assist India to expand its programme.

Indications are Washington would be prepared to assist in development of alternate sources of power—solar and wind, but unlikely to support coal-based energy projects due to the Copenhagen commitment. It will assist in development of small hydro power projects and confine itself to repair and up-gradation of the existing thermal plants and improvement in the distribution network. For new plants Pakistan will have to rely on loans from World and Asian Development Banks.

On the issue of enhancing textile quotas for Pakistan, Congress is unlikely to show any flexibility. Although any increase would have affected China in a small way without harming the US interests. Nonetheless we should raise the issue of preferential trade agreement and solicit support for Pakistan’s integration in the global economy. In the field of education, Washington has already shown its willingness to support primary and secondary education and on higher-level education through Fulbright and other scholarship schemes. Another area where the United States has to be careful is to lower its visibility as it conveys an impression of meddling and micromanaging Pakistan’s affairs.

...

The writer is a retired lieutenant-general. Email: [email protected]

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Mar 2010 08:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:India now plans to buy gas from Iran via deep-sea

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27912

The article in The News about India looking for an undersea gas pipeline bypassing the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been copied from the Indian Express:

Ignore Pak, ask Iran for gas via sea: MEA

Meanwhile India is continuing to pursue other suppliers besides Iran for meeting its gas needs.

The Oil Minister of Qatar, Abdullah al-Attiyah has indicated that India’s purchases of Qatari LNG is set to rise from 7.5 mmtpa to 11.5 mmtpa. :

Qatar to up LNG supply to India to 11.5 mln tones

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Mar 2010 08:37

The Oil Minister of Qatar, Abdullah al-Attiyah has indicated that India’s purchases of Qatari LNG is set to rise from 7.5 mmtpa to 11.5 mmtpa. :

Qatar to up LNG supply to India to 11.5 mln tones[/

Thanks Allah and too bad for Paki or Perisans, Qatar's gas reserves rivals that of Iran so Paki can wait till Judgement day to get any penny out of the deal.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Mar 2010 09:05

^^^ There is yet another dimension

.

Iran’s largest gas field and indeed the specific gas field the IPI is supposed to tap is the South Pars field. Interestingly it is the same South Pars that Qatar is tapping for the gas it liquefies and sells to India.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 22 Mar 2010 11:01

Two policemen killed in Quetta blast

QUETTA: A bomb strapped to a cycle exploded on Sunday, killing two policemen and a shopkeeper and injuring 19 other people on the Quarry road.

Sources said the cycle was parked near a fodder shop and the bomb was detonated by remote control when a police vehicle passed by.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 22 Mar 2010 11:05

The foreign governments applied harsh regulations for immigrants at the airports and other entry points. Those living within the country were also subjected to severe security checks and quite a few instances of deportation of Pakistanis on grounds of illegal entry or stay became the norm.

The problem now has reached epidemic proportions. Official reports have indicated horrendous figures. In the year 2004, from Muskat alone, 10,294 job seekers were deported; last year, the number increased 12,600. These people were smuggled to Oman by crossing Pak-Iran border illegally through Balochistan. Most of these deportees returned in pathetic conditions, both mental and physical, as they were kept in prison under harsh conditions, before deportation.

According to official statistics, during last two years, a total of 87,963 Pakistanis were deported from 34 countries and another 658 were detained in 13 European countries. The number of detainees in UK alone is 360 on various charges, such as illegal documents or overstay.

The ‘War on Terror,’ in which Pakistan has become the frontline state, also paradoxically put Pakistanis in the dangerous or unwanted category as evident from the attitude of most countries. On slight suspicion, Pakistanis have been detained, harassed and even killed. In Macedonia, in 2002, eleven Pakistanis were shot dead for illegally crossing the border.

Recently, there has been a scandal in Greece where 22 legally resident Pakistanis were arrested, interrogated and tortured by British intelligence authorities in the wake of 7/7 events in London. Initially, the British refuted the allegations of M16 involvement, but later admitted when the media came out with more details and evidence.

The net result of these incidents has been that now an average Pakistan is a persona non grata, an object of suspicion and target of humiliation and intimidation, with no avenue, national or international, to turn to for justice.

This inhuman behaviour and unlawful attitude is not only limited to the US and Europe, but even in Malaysia and Thailand, similar stories have surfaced; 187 Pakistanis are facing criminal charges in Malaysia. More than a hundred Pakistanis are languishing in jails in Thailand and the agreement to deport them to Pakistan is caught in red-tapism.

Our leaders keep shouting from the rooftop that Pakistan is a nuclear power, the second largest Muslim nation and an Islamic republic. The truth is that ours is not even a humane republic, let alone Islamic, where justice is denied to its citizens and discrimination, even cruelty, by foreign employers does not evoke any compassion or concern. Nations achieve respect and recognition for protection of their citizens and rule of law and not just by becoming a nuclear power.

The writer is a former ambassador.

clicky

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 22 Mar 2010 11:27

i am beginning to think that there is nothing wrong in doing an == between india/pak. we defeated pak 3 times and we sneer at every thing the world does with them!!! if this is not == spat then what else is?

many classic tamil movies show this behavior as a fight between two members of the same family. they eventually get together in the movies and all people around them either play them for their own benefits or say things like "innikku adichupanga, nalaikku sernduruvanga. sondam vittu poguma"

then why all the rhona-dhona on ==. if india wants to truly get out of ==, then deal with the big boys and show that you are not in the same league as your == neighbor.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 22 Mar 2010 12:15

From Orbat.com-

Ever since Obama , gave his speech at West Point announcing withdrawal from Afghanistan, the Pakistani establishment is on a new high. It feels it is winning.
As for the Pakistanis thinking they are winning: in Editor's opinion (a) they have won already; (b) they deserve this victory because they have beaten the US's game while the US was thinking it had turned Pakistan into a lackey state; (c) once Pakistan goes into Afghanistan in force, the Taliban, both Afghan and Pakistani, will turn against Pakistan in force.
Editor is not going to waste his breath what he has been saying to the Indians for 14 years: the fundamentalists are going to come for India. After the Bombay November 2008 attack some Indians have begun to understand this. But most of the government, military, intelligence, elite, fourth estate remain as clueless as to what's going to happen when the fundamentalists take over Pakistan and then hit India.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Mar 2010 13:26

arun wrote:The Energy Crisis in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan persists:

Ten hours of load shedding tests nation’s patience

Surely time for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to fall back on Islamic Science and get the FoDP to finance research into the “off beat” idea’s of the Al Qaeda linked UmmahTamir-e-Nau founder, Dr. Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood?

The specific ‘off beat” idea I am talking about is the one dating back to 1980 when as a senior director of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, Dr. Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood had "recommended that djinns [or genies], being fiery creatures, ought to be tapped as a free source of energy. By this means, a final solution to Pakistan's energy problems would be found." (Djinn Energy)

With electricity load shedding levels doubling in a matter of 4 days from 10 hours a day to 20 hours a day, will the Islamic Republic of Pakistan take recourse to Islamic Science?

Specifically the Islamic Science theory mooted by the founder of Al Qaeda linked UN designated terrorist outfit UmmahTamir-e-Nau who was also a former senior director of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, of tapping Djinn / Genie energy

:

20-hour loadshedding, power shortfall reaches 5,000MW

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 22 Mar 2010 13:35

arun wrote: 20-hour loadshedding, power shortfall reaches 5,000MW

Tell the common abduls that along with islamic izzat Pak army is selling the power to Afgan based US troops for money.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 22 Mar 2010 14:09

Target Killings continue in Quetta

Gunmen kill college principal in Quetta
QUETTA: Gunmen riding a motorcycle Monday shot dead a college principal and renowned educationist in Quetta, the capital of Pakistan's restive southwestern province of Baluchistan, police said.
Fazle Bari, principal of private boys' college Tameer-e-Nau, was killed in the drive-by shooting when he was travelling to work in his car, senior police official Tariq Manzoor told AFP.
“Bari died on the spot and his driver was wounded,” Manzoor said, linking the attack to a recent wave of unrest and “targeted killings.”
...

link

Sometime back a few educationists from Punjab working in Quetta were targetted. I wonder if this is a continuation of that. Or is it that this gent was a Shia?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Mar 2010 16:24

VinodTK wrote:Pakistan simply sees no reason to stop supporting terrorists

This is an absolutely brilliant article by Tellis. Great analysis on TSP's stratgey. Give me some slack to put out an impotent whine, but it is absolutely stunning beyond belief that despite TSP's relentless assualt on India and terror stratgey, it still enjoys equal equal not just in the halls of power in Washington & Londo, but among Indians, assorted RNIs & WKKs etc as well.

Now coming back to Tellis, he will of course be dismissed by TSPians as "Indian" given his part Indian enthnicity. However, question for those who know him, how much credibility does he have in US? Does he have a voice? One thing he points out, and that could leave enough maneuvering room for TSP is his observation that LeT has spread its tentaciles beyond India. TSP will surely cut those and restric LeT to India. The challenge before Indian diplomats is to persuade US that this would be unacceptable to India. As Shiv points out, the only leverage India has on US is lectures on morality, so I wonder if despite Kerry Lugar bill and other noises pointing out LeT, one of the outcomes of US-TSP "startegic dialouge" is the taking out of LeT from futher focus. More than any "India-like" equal equal nuke deal that US will offer TSP to assuage their H&D, it is the maneuvering around LeT that India should be more concerned about.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 22 Mar 2010 16:30

N-deal: India hopes US will keep Pak's track record in mind

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ndeal ... nd/594051/

"We hope international community would strike the right balance between meeting energy needs of any country while taking on board its track record with regard to proliferation of nuclear technology and weapons of mass destruction," official sources said.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Mar 2010 16:35

^^ In the background though, I fully expect Yindia to arm-twist US N-business interests vying for the Indian pie to lobby DC to scuttle any civilian deal with pak.

Should that fail, I would certainly like to see 'consequences' for US defence biz interests here. It's quite unlikely, I know, but still, hope springs eternal.