Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

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SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

JE Menon wrote:Shah Mehmood is a good mouthpiece internationally. He has that air of smug finger-waving superiority and entitlement that the Paks love, and a face that fits. He is TFTA, and looks very presentable in a suit. (Compare him to SM Krishna and his ridiculous wig and you know what I mean). This sort of thing makes the Pak establishment happy, and the military thinks as a result that it is doing a good job of improving and enhancing its image with the paymaster - i.e. the US.
They have thrived on their TFTA image and they went out of their way to charm their American friends.
Samuel Huntington said of Ayub Khan thus: "More than any other political leader in a modernising country after World War II, Ayub came close to filling the role of a Solon or Lycurgus, or 'Great Legislator' on the Platonic or Rousseauean model." President Eisenhower and Vice-President Nixon were also equally charmed by Ayub Khan.
The Secretary of State in Eisenhower's regime, John Foster Dulles said
"I’ve got to get some real fighting men into the south of Asia. The only Asians who can really fight are the Pakistanis. That’s why we need them in the alliance. We could never get along without the Gurkhas."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shaardula »

SSridhar wrote:
shaardula wrote:why do i get a feeling that load shedding in TSP is a tact. a tact meant to create an effect? was load shedding a phenomena before india got the concessions, for example?

realistically on the demand side what really has changed?
Shaardula, there is no doubt about power shortages in Pakistan and there is no doubt also about Pakistan grossly exaggerating the shortage (claiming 20 hours power outage everyday etc.) to earn American sympathy for nuclear power plants.

The shortages in Pakistan are due to many factors:
  • Two-thirds of the power plants are based on natural gas and oil. With uneven supplies from Balochistan and low pressure of gas most of the time coupled with high price of oil and withdrawal of concessions from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan is unable to run all its fossil-fuel based plants to full Plant Load Factor (PLF). The cost of generation is also high due to oil prices. The Iranian gas, if it materializes at all, is not going to help matters either as their price is also high. One of the conditions of the recent IMF funding was that electricity price will be upped by 50% before June, 2010. Pakistan has almost complied with that by raising the prices in two stages since last quarter. One more raise is imminent. The Zardari government has earned a lot of criticism for that.
  • The remaining one-third of the power is produced from hydroelectric plants at Tarbela, Mangla and Ghazi Barotha. The fluctuation in hydroelectric power generation is seasonal. It is lean season now and all storages have reached the Dead Storage levels with very little power generation therefore. Besides, the poor design of the Mangla & Tarbela have meant that the turbine blades are frequently damaged by the usually heavy silt load of the young Himalayan-mountain based rivers. There are frequent breakdowns and the plants do not run at full capacity even when the storage is high.
  • The GoP has been unable to build coal-based power plants using the deposits in Thar.
  • There is an excessive grid loss due to stealing and low tension & low technology grids and power dispatching techniques. This is what Hillary Clinton was hinting at, that Pakistan has to do a lot in its existing infrastructure that can give it immediate relief to some extent. Its installed capacity is only 20 GW.
thanks sridhar for explaining the supply side issues.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

US Ambassador in the UK ensures no body scan for Shah Mohammed Qureshi
The extent to which the Obama administration will go to humour Pakistan is highlighted by the fact that its envoy to UK drove four hours to Manchester to ensure that a zealous American airline security does not body scan foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi ahead of his arrival here.

When Qureshi's commercial flight to the US stopped in Manchester this week, American ambassador in London, Louis B Susman, drove four hours to be there for the hour long layover.

Susman's mission was to "avoid any unpleasantness - including the possibility that British-based US airline security might insist on body-scanning Qureshi - that might start the US-Pakistan strategic dialogue in Washington off on the wrong foot,"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by jrjrao »

Pakistan has been a victim of foreign-sponsored sabotage,” Qureshi pointed out referring to Islamabad's security concerns in the region, where it has a large neighbor India on its eastern border and a restive war-hit Afghan border.
From the DC Paki embassy web site.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:US Ambassador in the UK ensures no body scan for Shah Mohammed Qureshi
The extent to which the Obama administration will go to humour Pakistan is highlighted by the fact that its envoy to UK drove four hours to Manchester to ensure that a zealous American airline security does not body scan foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi ahead of his arrival here.

When Qureshi's commercial flight to the US stopped in Manchester this week, American ambassador in London, Louis B Susman, drove four hours to be there for the hour long layover.

Susman's mission was to "avoid any unpleasantness - including the possibility that British-based US airline security might insist on body-scanning Qureshi - that might start the US-Pakistan strategic dialogue in Washington off on the wrong foot,"

Why are we sucking up to the US? Have we not learned yet?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 773351.cms
Even George Fernandes was strip-searched in US
Jul 10, 2004, 03.16pm IST

WASHINGTON: George Fernandes was strip-searched twice in Dulles Airport in the US capital area when he was defence minister, once while on an official visit to Washington and another time while en route to Brazil, according to former Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by jrjrao »

Yikes.

It is the second and final day of the "strategic" jhuppie thingie in DC. The first day did not go so well, so the Pakis have an urgent need to do something to impress Unkil.

And here is what they did today. They sent in fighters (F-16 no doubt), which in turn fired multiple laser guided bombs (given by Unkil, no doubt also) into a "religious seminary, (and) a mosque and a school" run by "Tableeghi Jamaat, a non-violent Islamic missionary group" near Parachinar in the Orakzai tribal area.

61 innocent Tableeghi are dead. May their martyrdom be not in waste. May Allah rain curses on those who killed them for cynical purposes.

AP newswire link
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by jagga »

No country has the right to question our ties with US: Pak
Pakistan on Thursday said the success of its strategic dialogue with the United States should not be judged in the context of whether it can obtain a civil nuclear agreement similar to the one inked by America and India, as Islamabad failed to get a clear commitment from Washington on such a pact. :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by symontk »

It could be also that Pak FM was carrying something secret in person and US contact collected that at London. We will soon know
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

A video is worth a thousand written words:
Hillary clinton talks to one Dr. Pirzada on 23 March 2010.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNiiiuKac9A

Text posted by abhishek_sharma 3 pages ago.Link
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

The remaining parts of the Najam Sethi story of Pakistan have now been uploaded on the Duniya TV website. Parts 1-4 posted earlier. (All 8 parts available here)
http://www.dunyanews.tv/newsite/play_pr ... 9&pid=2207
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBchxZGJbWE
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtoCkMdMRc
Part 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHN_IeOyRUE

In parts 6-8 NS talks mostly of the current situation in Pakistan, relations with massa, internal situation.

Najam Sethi owes me a big one for posting and popularizing his video series on BRF. :D
Last edited by Gagan on 25 Mar 2010 21:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Anujan »

chilarai wrote:while on the topic of plagiarism .. acm also faced paki plagiarism

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1041665

here's another one with due apology letters written by the cheaters

http://www.schneier.com/paper-relatedkey-p.html

hell even the last two letters are copies of each others :) ..both say
Of all the papers they could photo-chor, they chose Bruce Schneier's papers :rotfl: This is like stealing MJ's song and claiming it is yours, except that think of MJ as also being a writer for the rolling stone magazine :lol: . That guy is a scientist as well as a media darling -- all over the social media networks, news, newspapers and such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Schneier
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

[/quote]

HUm tum Chri se, bandhe ik dori se
Poocho na tum yeh hajoor,
Kajra wali aise tuu kyo hum ko nihare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c54sRZOmm3U
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

sunnyP wrote:His tone, mannerisms, fake accent and general performance was laughable - he belongs in a pantomime.
I get the feeling that he is doing it for a Paki audience. In a strange way these Pakis are the exact negative image of Indian politicians. They talk tough the way we want our politicians to talk, and when they get nothing they claim to be triumphant and overjoyed.

This is a carefully choreographed show for a home audience. The Pakistan army and Qureshi and co who are puppets of the army are all slaves of the US. They have to pretend that they are doing the right thing and are getting rewarded by the US which includes everything - like Kashmir (almost) , Nuclear deal (nearly there) and 35 billion (the first 200 million is in the mail)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

Let me dole out some equal equal observvations which I think are valid. But first some preliminaries.

Smooth talking like what Quereshi did has its value. Its only those who can see through the glib sophistry, as we on BR, and probably some on Dilli do, can treat the talk with the contempt it deserves. But if a picture is worth a 1000s words, that image showing Quereshi and madam Hilary in almost a romatic embrace would be sending chills up the spinse of elite SDRE women (Billy "BJ" Clinton might actually be relieved to see Hilary run away with Quereshi, but thats another matter :-)). Can you imagine the jealousy Sarmila baby must be feeling imagining that Quereshi were with her instead in her bedroom :-). These TFTA types mesmerize the elite in Dilli; how many times have you heard the phrase "my Pakistani friends" from the likes of Bakara as they whitewash TSP's diabolical obsession to destroy India manifested in every posture they stake out.

Now to the equal equal. As I look at US-India-TSP triangle, it is becoming obvious by the day that both TFTA-led TSP and India look to US for deliverence. And both think they are the natural "allies" of US. TSP thinks by its TFTA traits, they, with US support should be the natural Lords of "South Asia". And they wonder why US won't allow that (by giving TSP everything it wants to destroy India) despite the TFTA camaradarie in private.

India on the other hand believes it is the natural "ally" of the US because we are the world's largest democrcay onlee. India cannot understand why US would ally itself with an abominable terrorist entity despite its moral, self-righteous pontifications on democrcay and rule of law. And with SDRE obsession to be loved by TFTA types, even a peck on the cheeck by Honcho Richard gere on SDRE Shilpa's cheeck sends the SDREs into a mind-blowing tizzy only to be let down when anything beyond a peck on the cheech is left to frenzied imagination.

Finally, both India and TSP are living in a world of delusion. Sure Americans at a personal level have a natural inclination to TFTA traits, but Amercians are also pragmatic to the core. They know what SDREs are capable of and how they (SDREs) can be useful to American interests, so they are not going to allow TSP TFTAs to run rough shod over SDREs; however obsessed TSP TFTAs areover lordship of "South Asia", a.k.a Moghul empire redux with SDREs slaves. That TSP has been spared the treatment meted out to other "bad guys" on US radar escapes the TSP TFTA, which in and of itself a huge rewards given their abominable behavior as a country. Likewise, US, while it has some common interests with SDREs will constantly keep them on a tight leash lest they start getting too uppity about assuming a "global super power" role. And neither do SDREs have the guts and courage to do what is necessary, nor will US allow SDREs to rid itself of this TSP abomination as an albatross around its neck. And one way of achieving this would be to give TSP drone-line military goodies so they can look at targets of interest to TSP, and of course letting TSP use its LeT assets on SDREs.

This in a nutshell captures the India USA TSP triangle IMO.
Last edited by CRamS on 25 Mar 2010 21:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by svinayak »

CRamS wrote:
India on the other hand believes it is the natural "ally" of the US because we are the world's largest democrcay onlee. India cannot understand why US would ally itself with an abominable terrorist entity despite its moral, self-righteous pontifications on democrcay and rule of law.
I have a question. Can Indians be stupid for 60 years.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by ramana »

Most likely the TSP has to turn on AQK before it can prove its non-prolif credentials for the nuke deal and that is a show to watch.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

Acharya wrote:I have a question. Can Indians be stupid for 60 years.
Yes, they can be and they have been.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Carl_T »

CRamS wrote:
India on the other hand believes it is the natural "ally" of the US because we are the world's largest democrcay onlee.
India cannot understand why US would ally itself with an abominable terrorist entity despite its moral, self-righteous pontifications on democrcay and rule of law.
Very true, and I believe that is one of the stimuli for the various pro-US posts on this forum. Were those people sleeping for the past 40 years?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

It's too late for me. I'm too tired - will be back tomorrow. But I can't get these insane Qreshi images out of my mind. It is aimed at sending signals to someone. What signals? And to whom?

I am just thinking of a situation where I have say visited a foreign country to write some exams, which I fail (miserably) but when I return do a joyous jig for my family to see and punch the air and run out with both hands up in the air making a victory sign.

What message would I be sending if I did that? and why would I want to do that.

Watch this pisk space
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

SSridhar wrote:
Acharya wrote:I have a question. Can Indians be stupid for 60 years.
Yes, they can be and they have been.
Not Indians but Indian politicians, ruling eelites and of course some bought out media men competeing with Sarthi Shalya Maharaj.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

A few days ago Hamid Mir on Capital Talk had his program focus on the missing persons in Balochistan problem.

Even after 2 years, and despite all political parties and all the chief ministers of all the provinces, the PM and the President agreeing that the missing people must be accounted for ASAP, nothing has happened. A Balochi politician (retired Lt General from the Army, forgot his name) explained that the civilian government is powerless to touch Balochistan's shadow/parallel government; that it is not just people were disappeared during Musharraf's rule, it is still going on.

I didn't quite catch it, but one of the other Baloch politicians was describing how six of his guests in Islamabad, with a list and details of 1000+ missing people, ready to submit to the federal authorities, went missing - in Islamabad.

Beneath the civilian veneer there is hidden the military/intelligence glove.

-----

In another of Hamid Mir's shows, on police-work, one of Pakistan's motorma human rights activists made a comment I didn't understand - she said, apart from the ISI, Pakistan has an alphabet soup of intelligence/security agencies. She said, something like, pick any letter from A to Z and there is a security agency beginning with that letter. Any idea what she meant?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

CRamS wrote: India on the other hand believes it is the natural "ally" of the US because we are the world's largest democrcay onlee. India cannot understand why US would ally itself with an abominable terrorist entity despite its moral, self-righteous pontifications on democrcay and rule of law.
Perhaps we have too many Indians too young to remember 1971 - the Bangladesh war and the US actions. I was rather young, but I remember it.

Only people on the American left or libertarian side comment on US pontifications. A good one is here:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html

There is an important lesson for everyone in the linked essay, that I reproduce here, easily generalized:
By holding no one accountable for past abuse, and by convening no commission on what did and didn’t protect the country, President Obama has left the telling of this dark chapter in American history to those who most want to whitewash it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Amber G. »

Anujan wrote:
chilarai wrote:while on the topic of plagiarism .. acm also faced paki plagiarism

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1041665

here's another one with due apology letters written by the cheaters

http://www.schneier.com/paper-relatedkey-p.html

hell even the last two letters are copies of each others :) ..both say
Of all the papers they could photo-chor, they chose Bruce Schneier's papers :rotfl: This is like stealing MJ's song and claiming it is yours, except that think of MJ as also being a writer for the rolling stone magazine :lol: . That guy is a scientist as well as a media darling -- all over the social media networks, news, newspapers and such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Schneier
Don't underestimate them.. as I said, one can't even make these things up. The tamaga-e-paki had 5+ such papers before he was fired. Not to mention, IIRC, a respected (Vice chancellor or head of dept.) paki had a "review" article published (inside Paki peer-reviewed journal) which was copied and pasted from CERN's visitors guide !
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by JE Menon »

>>copied and pasted from CERN's visitors guide !

u got to be effing kidding me!!! These guys are truly unbelieveable. They really think the rest of the world are fools. Or, they don't care what the rest of the world thinks, it's only the immediate family, the wider Pakjabi family, and perhaps the district that matters!!! Now I can see why the Meccan would so effusive and garrulous while all he got was a chance to swagger around DC.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Anujan »

ramana wrote:Telegraph's K.p. Nayar writes

Grand Welcome For Pak General

The real threat to Indian interests from the talks may come from any US decision to fund any major hydel projects in Pakistan. That will create an American stake in Islamabad’s water disputes with New Delhi, which have ramifications for Kashmir because of the geography of the rivers. Having failed to get the US involved directly in the Kashmir dispute, this may be Kayani’s diabolical effort to do that by proxy.
Sanku wrote: So as the Kshtrapy of Pakistan crumbles, the emperor is sending more and more of his forces, military and civil to maintain the province himself?

Is THAT it?
I have a different take on this. Even Pakis are intelligent enough to realize that American stake or not, there is zero chance of success in trying to renegotiate IWT or to add further provisions to it.

Pakis have been unable (from financial and technical point of view) and unwilling (from political point of view) to upgrade their water infrastructure. The water being a flashpoint is a ploy to get American doles and grants to upgrade their water infrastructure. The question of "American stake" arises only if American companies working in the project also operate the projects or seek to make profits from it. This is a far shot, taking into account the expected domestic reaction (Amreeki companies exploiting water in Pakistan!!!).

The ploy is to arm twist for more Baksheesh - Hinting that they will blame the Indians and instigate riots if US does not dole out money for dams.

Amreeki work on Paki water problems is a good thing for us. Except for working on *new* projects (like Neelum-Jhelum) which has potential to throw a spanner in our works like Kishenganga.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

In my attempt to highlight the India TSP equal equal when it comes to courting US, please my apologies if I sullied mother India's name. Make no mistake about it, SDREs are the good guys here. SDREs truly believe that if you do the right things as a country, set the right course of action, and despite all its flaws, it deserves respect and be taken seriously, and by no means should it be equated with the terrorist abomination called TSP. Unfortunately, as much as I believe in good Karma, the real world doesn't operate that way, at least on a time scale that we observe. SDREs, as much as they seek US co-tails do want come up the ladder the right way. TSP in contrast believes that by the sheer weight of its TFTAness, geography, and the superiority of Islam, they are entitled to be the Lords of the region. And since that has not happened, they have resorted to obsessive, compolsive degenerate tactics visa vi India. We SDREs know that, at least some of us, but this important nuance is missing in the world's, primarily the US's, narrative of India TSP equal equal.
Last edited by CRamS on 26 Mar 2010 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shaardula »

delete
Last edited by shaardula on 26 Mar 2010 03:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by JE Menon »

BTW, watch the interview Hillary gave to Pirzada. He presses her on the nuclear issue, and she absolutely refuses to take the bait, does not even mention the world "nuclear" once... she calls it "that issue which the Pakistani delegation wishes to raise" or something very similar. It is hilarious, watching that snotty fool trying her on the water and civilian nuclear issues. She's a lawyer for fux sake and a good one at that... one would think the idiot would know better!!!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Rangudu »

JEM,

It's an open secret that she cannot stand TSPians, especially RAPEs and has been one of the biggest relative hawks on TSP within the cabinet. A corollary to that is that she just despises Holbrooke and his entourage, including the likes of Robin Raphel. I'm told that Hilary is a true blue feminist type and cannot stand the patronizing attitude that RAPE types betray with Western women diplomats. Recall how she let loose on that trip to TSP.

It is the hidebound Generals in the Pentagon, Mullen, Petraeus and co who, along with Holbrooke and career diplomat types who are pushing for this new policy. For the moment at least Hillary is sidelined.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Anujan »

I know that SSridhar-ji disagrees with me but still...This "Nuke deal with Pakistan" bogey is not so simple. It has varied and complex connections with several aspects of Unkil's foreign policy & strategy.

Pakis getting Nuke deal is out of the question. It will substantially weaken Unkil's case against Iran. That means pissing the Israelis off, because then (a) Iran case is weakened (b) Of the 3 countries outside of NPT who have nukes, 2 have been recognized de-facto (I am not counting NoKo's termination of treaty), leaving Israel out. Look at it from Paki point of view. What do they want?

1. A Nuke deal to claim Equal equal with India to save H&D
2. As a stick to beat US with to get concessions in other places (standard strategy of demand 10x the price, negotiate it down later)
3. In a clever move arguing that Nuke deal + Jets capable of delivering Nukes will pacify Paki population into thinking that Unkil recognizes Pak nuclear status and is not going to snatch nukes away from Pakistan.

1 is not happening. 2 is already happening or will happen. 3 might happen with Unkil making some statements about Paki nukes and willing to tone down "taliban is going to get nukes" rhetoric.

A few billion more and restraining the press is what will come out of it. Nothing new.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by MurthyB »

Here's another smooth talkin' Paki from days of yore. Where golla picked up his cojones from :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

My man R-man,

I've got just a few hours to kill some time before I head back home to the west coast. Tell me saar, what are the gains and losses, I mean real ones, for TSP on this latest engagement. On Hilary, boss, that body language with Quereshi doesn't inspire too much confidence that she is a blue dog feminist. Perhaphs her feminisim will be on full color when us SDREs try to talking to her in a condescending tone, but with Quereshi, she seems clearly floored. She definetly feels more at hom with TSP RAPE than she does with her Billy "BJ" type maacho male American counterparts.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

Anujan wrote: Pakis getting Nuke deal is out of the question. It will substantially weaken Unkil's case against Iran. That means pissing the Israelis off, because then (a) Iran case is weakened
This erroneous hypothesis negates all your other conclusions. I am not saying that a nuke deal with TSP is on the anvil, but the reasons you cite are flawed. As a superpower, US is fully capable of adopting different strokes for different folks and spinning away its way to glory. So it is quite capable of giving nuke deal to a terrorist, nuke stealing/proliferating TSP and arguing through CNN/Fox that such a deal advances "world peace", while only a nuke castrated Iran serves the same cause.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Carl_T »

Rangudu wrote: It's an open secret that she cannot stand TSPians, especially RAPEs and has been one of the biggest relative hawks on TSP within the cabinet. A corollary to that is that she just despises Holbrooke and his entourage, including the likes of Robin Raphel. I'm told that Hilary is a true blue feminist type and cannot stand the patronizing attitude that RAPE types betray with Western women diplomats. Recall how she let loose on that trip to TSP.
Why so regarding Holbrooke? She is hardcore feminst though and I wonder how she would react if Zardari decided he wanted to hug her.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by MurthyB »

CRamS wrote:My man R-man,

I've got just a few hours to kill some time before I head back home to the west coast. Tell me saar, what are the gains and losses, I mean real ones, for TSP on this latest engagement. On Hilary, boss, that body language with Quereshi doesn't inspire too much confidence that she is a blue dog feminist. Perhaphs her feminisim will be on full color when us SDREs try to talking to her in a condescending tone, but with Quereshi, she seems clearly floored. She definetly feels more at hom with TSP RAPE than she does with her Billy "BJ" type maacho male American counterparts.
I think American interactions with Indians are colored by the fact that India is huge, millenia old, and outnumber Americans greatly. Generally, Americans have a more easy-going attitude with small countries and their hapless citizens who they think look up to america for help and patronage. So we Indians might be small and short but are attached to something humongous and quite proud while even the tallest paki is merely crawling out of a puddle and begging for patronage.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Vivek_A »

TFT is out



General Kayani’s strategic dialogues


Najam Sethi's E d i t o r i a l

The Pakistan army under General Ashfaq Kayani is holding a strategic dialogue with the Obama administration externally and the Zardari government internally. The failing Pakistan economy and the fierce war with the Taliban are on top of the list with all protagonists. Everything flows from, or is related to, these two pressure points on Pakistan’s stability and security. If the economy fails, increasing impoverishment, angst and alienation from democracy and mainstream politics will swell the ranks of extremists and put pressure on the military to devote greater resources of men and materials to putting them down. And if the Taliban aren’t vanquished swiftly, their violence will scare away all prospective investment to revive the economy, thereby adversely impacting defense budgets and military needs for national security.

Pakistan’s economy is caught in a vortex. Political instability since 2007 has knocked the annual growth rate to about 3 per cent – which is barely above the population growth rate. Stagflation – unemployment is over 30 per cent and inflation about 25% – shows no sign of abating. Energy is short – about 1/3 of demand is unfulfilled and power outages of 6-14 hours every day are the norm across the country, hurting industry (about 35 per cent is shut down) – and pricey – power rates have soared by 80% in the last two years and are forecast to rise by another 40% this year! Indeed, Pakistan Electric Supply Company (PEPCO) that buys and sells all the power in the country has dented the federal budget by over Rs 60 billion annually for some years running. The IMF objects strongly because it wants its US$9 Billion Standby Facility to reduce Pakistan’s fiscal deficit from about 8% to 4%. The power sector’s circular debt has risen to over Rs 450 billion, an impossibly huge sum that defies easy solutions.

The cost of the war on terror – variously estimated to be about US$4 billion in the last two years – has also blown a big hole in the federal budget, despite regular military and financial handouts to the Pakistani army by Washington. In consequence, the government’s poverty alleviation and Public Sector Development budgets have been slashed by half this year.

The strategic dialogue in Washington led by General Ashfaq Kayani is focused on all these issues. Included are talks on how to use American assistance to upgrade the hydroelectric network and finance new run-of-the-river electricity projects and dams. Pakistan is also keen to get the Americans to abolish or reduce quota restrictions on its textile exports which account for over 60% of all Pakistani exports. Finally, Pakistan is nudging Washington on two important counts: persuade India to reopen dialogue on water-sharing issues that are threatening relations between the two even more than cross-border terrorism; and abandon opposition to Pakistan’s nuclear program so that it can extend and use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes as envisaged and outlined in the Indo-US nuclear deal.

While Washington is acutely aware of the regional and global consequences of Pakistan’s “failing state” syndrome, no free lunch is on offer. Indeed, the quid pro quo is concrete Pakistani help to America’s besieged armies in Afghanistan so that a respectable exit strategy can be implemented according to President Obama’s political timetable. This is where there is a historical “trust deficit” between the two sides that urgently needs to be bridged. The Americans want effective Pakistani military action in North Waziristan where the Afghan Taliban and Al Qaeda are entrenched. But the Pakistani army has held off military operations pending a firm recognition of Pakistan’s geo-strategic stakes in the region. Roughly translated, this amounts to a ring side seat for Pakistan’s ISI in any proposed dialogue between the Kabul regime and the Afghan Taliban, followed by a core role for Pakistan’s “moderate” Taliban assets (after they renounce all Al-Qaeda links) in any future political dispensation in Kabul. By way of corollary, India’s role in Afghanistan, including its links with Afghan intelligence to abet insurgency in Balochistan, is the subject of discussion in the talks.

General Ashfaq Kayani practically took charge of the country’s foreign policy some months ago. That accounts for his straight talk with the Americans and NATO on Afghan policy and by the Foreign Office with the Indians on the unconditional composite dialogue. It signals an end to the clever-by-half approach of General Musharraf and the whingeing attitude of the Zardari government. Now General Kayani has made an imprint on Pakistan’s economy by pressurizing the Zardari government to induct General Pervez Musharraf’s privatization minister, Hafeez Sheikh, a great US-IMF favourite, into the driving seat of the finance ministry. Pundits predict that an increasing number of “technocrats” approved by General Kayani are likely to fill important slots in government soon, in pursuit of the military’s national security paradigm of Two Ds – defense and development – supported by a resurgent judiciary and nationalist media.

The irony in the situation should not be missed. It heralds a new model of military supremacy over the civilians in forcefully but indirectly formulating and executing Pakistan policy in a “democratic” framework. Whether it will succeed or fail depends on how the two mainstream parties led by President Asif Zardari and Mian Nawaz Sharif play their cards.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Vivek_A »

Militants in the Punjab: contradictions galore



TFT special report
The task of fighting terror becomes particularly difficult due to the presence of a provincial government which has failed to acknowledge the serious threat posed by these militant groups

The recent spate of deadly attacks in the city of Lahore , which killed 80 innocent civilians and injured more than 200 people, has once again demonstrated the presence of an effective militant network in the province of Punjab. At the same time, these attacks have exposed the tall security claims of the federal and provincial governments as well as the country’s intelligence apparatus. Despite an increasing number of terrorist attacks in the province, the Punjab government is unfortunately still in a state of denial regarding the existence of militant networks in the province.

Intelligence reports have identified two major militant organisations as the main culprits for the rising number of incidents of terrorism in Punjab. These include Lashkar-e Jhangvi (LeJ), an offshoot of the sectarian Sipah-e-Sihaba Pakistan, and Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM), which was created by intelligence agencies to fuel the insurgency in Indian-held Kashmir. Reports suggest that both these militant organisations are co-ordinating their efforts in order to attack sensitive areas in major cities such as Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad.

Intelligence reports have further suggested that the primary targets for these organisations are the security forces, military convoys, check posts and busy public spaces such as market places, universities, and bus stands.

What is of great concern is that there is a clear link between the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and these Punjab-based organisations which have often worked together in carrying out various terrorist attacks in Punjab. Examples of such coordinated attacks include the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore on March 3, 2009; attacks on the security forces in Multan; attacks on the Rescue 15 and ISI offices in Lahore in May 2009; attacks on Moon Market; Allama Iqbal Town Lahore; and most importantly, the attack on the General Headquarters of the Pakistan Army in Rawalpindi in October 2009.

These militant organisations have been banned by the government , but continue to work openly as the Pakistani state fails to enforce its own laws. Even the leadership of these organisations is actively participating in political and recruiting activities , which reflects the inability and unwillingness of the Pakistani state in taking action against these militant outfits.

An example that illustrates the helplessness of the security apparatus is evident in the way Malik Mohammad Meraj was flown in from a jail in Punjab to the GHQ in order to “request” militants not to attack the security apparatus and to gain clues about the activities of the LeJ. In fact, the investigation into the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore last year has confirmed that the LeJ carried out this terrorist attack in order to put pressure on the federal government to release its leadership which is currently jailed in Lahore and Karachi.

That some of the main leaders of these militant organisations have been operating from Punjab is no longer a secret. Abu Zubaida, a top Al Qaeda leader, was arrested in Punjab in 2004. The sons of the fugitive Taliban leader , Jalaluddin Haqqani, lived in Lahore and were caught planning attacks in the city alongside a senior army official.

Another important figure in Al Qaeda, Sheikh Isa Misri (Egyptian) alias Qari Ismael alias Sheikh Arshad, who is ranked fourth in the FBI‘s list of most wanted terrorists, had been living and working in Lahore. He was an instrumental figure in setting up a coalition between Punjab-based militant groups, such as the LeJ and Al Qaeda. Recently, it was reported that Sheikh Misri has formed a militant organisation in Punjab known as Lashkar-e-Ismaeel with the stated aim of targeting the security forces for their co-operation with NATO forces in the “War on Terror.” He also merged eight different militant groups working in Punjab under an umbrella organisation. One of these groups planned the attack on the ISI office in Lahore in May 2009, while another one was linked to the attack on the GHQ office last year. Aqeel Ahmed alias Dr Usman, the mastermind behind the attacks on the Sri Lankan cricket team and the GHQ, was also a member of one of these groups.

“The presence of Al-Qaeda operatives in Punjab should not come as a surprise. Many of them are working in Punjab and , who knows, maybe even Osama bin Laden also travelled to Punjab at some point in a different guise,” claimed Khalid Khwaja, as ex-ISI operative turned Mujahid who has worked closely with Punjab-based militant organisations. “Only the ignorant feel surprised at the presence of Mujahids in Punjab” he asserted.

These examples do not stop here. There is a lengthy list of such examples, but the Punjab government seems to have buried its head in the sand. This state of denial already has had dangerous repercussions for those living in the province. According to the former police chief of Punjab , Shaukat Javed, militant organisations such as LeJ, JeM, Haraktul Ansar, Janadullah (working in Pakistan, mainly Karachi), and Harakatul Jihad-ul-Islami have organised themselves under the banner of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan. “It is now clear that these organisations are responsible for most of the attacks on the security forces and civilian targets and they are planning on carrying out such attacks on a much larger scale in Punjab,” claimed Shaukat Javed, who was also a member of the Intelligence Bureau.

Despite these threats, the PML-N, which is known for having a soft corner for militant groups, has so far refused to acknowledge the existence of such organisations in Punjab. The recent controversial remarks made by the Punjab chief minister, Shahbaz Sharif, at Jamia Naeemia in which he “requested” the Taliban not to attack Punjab has exposed the reluctance of the Punjab government in undertaking tough measures against these banned groups. Apart from causing immense embarrassment for the PML-N for appearing to be too Punjab-centric, this statement also raises concerns on whether the international community can trust the PML-N as a reliable partner in its fight against extremist elements.

This is not to suggest that the federal government’s record in this regard has been any better, as it has also consistently denied the existence of terror outfits in Punjab, keeping its focus only on the TTP in the NWFP. The good news, however, is that the federal government has finally acknowledged that there is a strong network of militant organisations in Punjab that needs to be dismantled. Interior Minister Rehman Malik has publicly stated that terror groups in Punjab form the backbone of the TTP especially since the military operation in Waziristan. Contrary to this position held by the federal government, there remains a series of denials by the Punjab government. In fact, it has ‘condemned’ the statement by Rehman Malik and has tried to absolve itself from any responsibility by asserting that “terrorists have no territory.”

“A terrorist is a terrorist and he has no regional identity,” claimed Punjab‘s law minister Rana Sanaullah. He concedes, however, that all those who have committed terrorist attacks in Punjab have been affiliated with these banned groups. Yet, at the same time he claims that every individual who was once part of these banned groups cannot be termed a terrorist. “We are doing our best but we cannot arrest all members of banned organisations without any reason,” he said. Unfortunately, Mr Sanaullah failed to realise that the very fact that these organisations were declared illegal is enough of a reason to question those who are affiliated with such organisations.

The federal government has so far only concentrated on fighting terror in the NWFP and Balochistan. It is becoming clear, however, that the focal point of this war has now shifted to the province of Punjab where these militant organisations are consolidating their power. If the federal government continues to ignore the security situation in Punjab, not only will it create resentment in other provinces which have witnessed large-scale military operations, but will also jeopardise the security of the entire country.

The task of fighting terror becomes particularly difficult due to the presence of a provincial government which has failed to acknowledge the serious threat posed by these militant groups. However, we have no choice but to take on this challenge as not doing so would have dire consequences , not only for the province of Punjab, but for all 180 million people living in this country.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

MurthyB wrote:I think American interactions with Indians are colored by the fact that India is huge, millenia old, and outnumber Americans greatly. Generally, Americans have a more easy-going attitude with small countries and their hapless citizens who they think look up to america for help and patronage. So we Indians might be small and short but are attached to something humongous and quite proud while even the tallest paki is merely crawling out of a puddle and begging for patronage.
Funny how times change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Drury
Allen Stuart Drury (September 2, 1918 – September 2, 1998) was a U.S. novelist. He wrote the 1959 novel Advise and Consent, for which he won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1960.
I have read Advise and Consent.

It was an important enough book to merit a 50-year retrospective.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/books ... on2-t.html

The Time Magazine 1959 book review is on line:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 62,00.html
The Indian Ambassador, Khrishna Khaleel, is obviously a scathing caricature of India's Khrishna Menon...
The obsequiousness of that character is noted by other characters in the book and is "explained" by India's colonial trauma which will take generations to overcome for Indians dealing with any white people. That was the opinion political journalists had of Indians in 1960.

However that attitude has been overcome, mostly. :)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by munna »

Today's India is a tiger cub that is heir to every victory/defeat of its ancestor empires (vis Guptas, Mauryas, Sikh and Maratha). The cub is growing up and the inter-millenial rivals know this and it has been duly noted. We may have not realized it but others do. For how long can we hide our stripes and claws?
We are what we are and cannot change our basic nature! Lets hope the cub grows up before others get him.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by jrjrao »

As noted earlier, the post-summit agreement is such that the obligations on the US are real (will part with cold hard taxpayer cash), and the obligations on the Pakis are nothing (will show greater "dedication" in fighting what we Pakis say are so-called terrorists, in what we Pakis say is this so-called war on terror).
Improving US-Pakistan relations have been on display in Washington this week in a high-level strategic dialogue culminating in two mutually beneficial commitments: more American money in exchange for increased Pakistani dedication to fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
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