Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 11 Mar 2010 11:16

I recently did a COK-DXB-SFO trip on Emirates. I think the notion of great service of emirates is just an illusion. Or the other airlines have dropped the levels too much. I flew SQ exclusively from 2001 to 2007. Emirates of today doesn't come anywhere close. The only good thing about emirates is the ICE system. Food is pathetic, even for airline std. Crew, even for the DXB-SFO sector was mediocre, no way close to the efficient and courteous SQ girls.

I saw a surprising thing though. The DXB-COK flight boarded very orderly. People followed the zones called out, and boarded properly. I don't know what made that.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2010 08:56

Of course, private airlines have benefited.

THAT was the sole purpose of the ~~destruction~~ merger of the two airlines with their militantly recalcitrant unions!!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/biz/ ... 678193.cms

AI-IA merger only helped pvt airlines: Panel
TNN, Mar 13, 2010, 02.37am IST

NEW DELHI: Faulting the merger of Air India and Indian Airlines, the committee on public undertakings (COPU) on Friday described it as a marriage between "incompatible individuals" that helped neither. The merger, instead, increased losses and put the carriers at a disadvantage to private operators.

Releasing its report on AI-IA becoming one, COPU chairman V Kishore Chandra Deo said the two airlines had suffered in terms of brand value and lost traffic to private competitors while no effort was made to monitor the merger.

The report calls for action against "agencies and individuals responsible for taking a whimsical decision so no PSU suffers such losses in the future".

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Mar 2010 21:12

One noob pooch:

In Kingfisher flights, we can see real time images of the land we are overflying on one of the channels.

What tech is used for this? Is it a downgraded mil version?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2010 21:31

sum wrote:One noob pooch:

In Kingfisher flights, we can see real time images of the land we are overflying on one of the channels.

What tech is used for this? Is it a downgraded mil version?

Fairly low tech.

Video camera.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Mar 2010 21:35

Are mil grade recon planes cameras much higher resolution than the ones on these domestic flights ( since these vanilla cameras themselves have decent resolution)?

Also, cant domestic flights be used as recon assets if they have decent video cameras fitted onto them and are flying over so many countries?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Mar 2010 01:07

sum wrote:Are mil grade recon planes cameras much higher resolution than the ones on these domestic flights ( since these vanilla cameras themselves have decent resolution)?

Also, cant domestic flights be used as recon assets if they have decent video cameras fitted onto them and are flying over so many countries?

Most of the sensitive areas would have no fly zones over them.

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Mar 2010 10:51

X Posted.

The Gods were merciful that the bomb on the Kingfisher flight from Bangalore to Thiruvananthapuram did not go off:

Country-made bomb found in a Kingfisher plane at Thiruvananthapuram

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Mar 2010 09:56

arun wrote:The Gods were merciful that the bomb on the Kingfisher flight from Bangalore to Thiruvananthapuram did not go off

Local Mallu media reports that the bomb was a crude bomb, which even had a wick jutting out. Some one would have to actually light it to make the blast (i.e no timing device attached). But bomb disposal squad did add that the bomb could have exploded if the pressure was increased. They added that the damage the bomb could have caused would be minimum. The police now also suspect that this was a kind of a "trial run" for a bigger scheme.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Mar 2010 13:00

I liked the Thai airways staff better than the SIA ones. SIA and Singapore in general is very spit n polish, propah, uber clean, well trained and professional - no complaints or doubts about that - but one does like the rustic charm of a woman walking down the aisle after dinner and very generously pouring out cognac in any amt to all those who wanted it, and doing it twice. thai - not so uber professional but has the charm and smile.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Mar 2010 13:10

sum wrote:Are mil grade recon planes cameras much higher resolution than the ones on these domestic flights ( since these vanilla cameras themselves have decent resolution)?

Also, cant domestic flights be used as recon assets if they have decent video cameras fitted onto them and are flying over so many countries?

You can read a license plate from 25-30 Kms.

How do you think Korean Air Lines Flight 007 went down?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 22 Mar 2010 13:18

chetak wrote:
sum wrote:Are mil grade recon planes cameras much higher resolution than the ones on these domestic flights ( since these vanilla cameras themselves have decent resolution)?

Also, cant domestic flights be used as recon assets if they have decent video cameras fitted onto them and are flying over so many countries?
You can read a license plate from 25-30 Kms.

How do you think Korean Air Lines Flight 007 went down?

It was never proven that Korean Air 007 was actually on some sort of spy mission. It could have just been pilot error that resulted in the aircraft going off course.
Remember the Soviets had indulged in a similar paranoid reaction five years before in April 1978 when they shot at Korean Air Flight 902 killing two passengers. Later tapes showed that the pilots had in fact identified themselves.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 24 Mar 2010 01:53

Hopeful of India getting into the top 5 league in 7 years

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/201 ... 091700.htm

India is likely to break into the global league of the top five aviation countries in terms of number of passengers carried and airports connected in the next five-to-seven years, the Minister for Civil Aviation, Mr Praful Patel said on Tuesday.

“We are already at the number nine position globally. Going by the current projections, India should break into the league of the top five global aviation countries in the next five-to-seven years,” the Minister said at a conference on ‘Building infrastructure challenge and opportunities'.

Mr Patel said “the real test for the Indian aviation sector is to create more (infrastructure) facilities ... Approvals have been granted to 12 new greenfield airports in different parts of the country.”

These include two aerotropolis projects at Durgapur in West Bengal and Ludhiana in Punjab.

The Minister also pointed out that the penetration of civil aviation in India was among the lowest, with the country having a ratio of 2.89 million passengers per aircraft compared with 0.05 million in the US.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Mar 2010 02:39

Ameet wrote: Mr Patel said “the real test for the Indian aviation sector is to create more (infrastructure) facilities ...

No the real test is for the central and state governments to bring the price of ATF down to international levels by reducing the huge amounts of taxes levied on it. And privatize/shut down Air India. Airport modernization projects seem to be going along fine.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 24 Mar 2010 14:06

arun wrote:Country-made bomb found in a Kingfisher plane at Thiruvananthapuram

Latest on this incident is that 4 people have been picked up by the Kerala Police. The initial thoughts are that the bomb was placed when the air-plane was in Thiruvananthapuram. The police got the first clue when they found out that the bomb was covered in a Malayalam News paper page, which is only circulated in a specific locality in Thiruvananthapuram. The people interrogated are a couple of contract cleaners of the air-plane, and a couple of their friends, one of them who sells explosives.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Mar 2010 04:53

Photo from SSC India's Delhi Airport Updates thread, courtesy:
source: thanglian @ flickr
Panoramic view of a pier of New Delhi IGI airport's new Terminal 3 (very large download)
Note that this is just one of the two piers, the other being invisible in the background. The Kingfisher A320 on the right corner provides a nice size perspective. This picture explains the topology. The pictured pier seems to be the one closer to the old triangle-shaped T2.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Mar 2010 19:02

Our Minister of Civil Aviation Praful Patel on March 09, 2010 lists out the Greenfield Airports coming up in the country in answer to a Rajya Sabha question..

Navi Mumbai and Sindhudurg in Mahrashtra;
Mopa in Goa;
Bijapur, Shimoga, Hassan and Gulbarga in Karnataka;
Kannur in Kerala;
Pakyong in Sikkim;
Durgapur in West Bengal;
Paladi / Jaipur in Rajasthan
Datia / Gwalior in Madhya Pradesh

From here: PIB

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 Mar 2010 20:08

trip report : being an Air-India fan largely for the food and the aunties in saris, I fell for the DC to Kolkata non-stop service AI started recently. First of all it ain't any non-stop, with halts in JFK and Delhi. While returning back had to do the customs in JFK, collect the baggage and hand it over again. The aircrafts they use to connect capitols ain't the best. DC to Delhi was the same aircraft, which was in horrible shape. My hand rest had to to be taped down to keep it together. I did notice many other seats with the same issues. Delhi to CCU was an entirely different aircraft with the same flight number AI-101.

Food was average, the aunties were still smiling the same way. No issues with that unlike the jingos who are used to Singapore PYTs and whine here. But the overall service feel has been a let down since the merger with Indian Airlines.

Side benefits are that you can brag that you flew in the same flight as the Furrin Sec'y and the infamous NPA aunty-ji from the heritage institute.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 28 Mar 2010 02:49

India's private planes and helicopters take off again

If you want to see some of India's most powerful and influential businessmen, head over to the private helicopter pad at the Mahalaxmi Race Course in Mumbai.

While standing outside in the 30-degree heat, waiting for our own helicopter to arrive, we see the likes of Anil Ambani and Gautam Singhania whisk past, hurriedly ferried on and off their helicopters.

The combined net worth of these two Indian businessmen alone is $15bn, roughly equivalent to the economic output of Ghana.

manish · Post by **manish** » 28 Mar 2010 08:40

Gerard wrote:India's private planes and helicopters take off again
If you want to see some of India's most powerful and influential businessmen, head over to the private helicopter pad at the Mahalaxmi Race Course in Mumbai.

While standing outside in the 30-degree heat, waiting for our own helicopter to arrive, we see the likes of Anil Ambani and Gautam Singhania whisk past, hurriedly ferried on and off their helicopters.

The combined net worth of these two Indian businessmen alone is $15bn, roughly equivalent to the economic output of Ghana.

I was told by someone that there are very strict regulations and/or pilot qualification criteria that govern the use of rooftop helipads in India and that was said to be the reason behind the use of facilities like the Race Course helipad by these worthies. For example, the 22 floor Essar House bang in front of the Race Course has a rooftop helipad, but during my time in Mumbai I had never seen it being used. Same has been the case with other big sky scrapers that I had come across.

Can anyone (Chetak ji?) shed a bit more light on this? Are there very few pilots who are certified to land on rooftops or something? Sorry if the question is or seems stupid.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 28 Mar 2010 14:48

Bade wrote:trip report : being an Air-India fan largely for the food and the aunties in saris, I fell for the DC to Kolkata non-stop service AI started recently.

If you had flown NY-New Delhi non-Stop in the new Air India Boeing 777 200sLRs, your view would have been different. That is an excellent experience, even in coach. And the in flight entertainment is very good, too.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Mar 2010 17:28

Is there another one other than the AI-101/102 that does NY(JFK)-Del ? The aircraft we got that day for NY-Del did not look new at least as far as the interior decor goes in cattle class. It was a Boeing 777-LR for sure. My understanding is that they have just extended this service to DC on the US end.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 28 Mar 2010 19:25

I can't answer that to be frank as standards may yet have fallen in the last year, but I have done two round trips JFK-DEL on the "new" non-stop Air India, once on Coach and once on Business Class (called "Executive Class"). The experience, even in coach was very good and the planes were almost spanking brand new.

I am talking of 2008 November (this was just before the Mumbai attacks, I landed at Delhi the day they started) and 2009 March.

They had the BOSE Noise Cancelling Head phones, Pyjamas, really cool 'mood lighting' and superb food. Almost fully flat beds in Business. Very good toiletries, good selection of hooch...couldn't find any cause to complain, really.

The Service is not up to the SIA level, but it is still very good.

I have seen AI in the dark days as well, when the Toilets were literally closed with Duct Tape and the T.V did not work. LAX-DEL (via Germany, mostly Frankfurt) - was a particularlly harrowing stretch. Those were the old 747s, of course.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Mar 2010 20:58

Those comfy head-phones are all there. In fact my return flight looked much better. Wish they had a true DC-Delhi non-stop even if it was not a daily flight. The passenger load from DC is low, so they herd out all the economy class passengers to the rear of the aircraft with free seating for the DC-JFK segment. It is a significant inconvenience for passengers traveling with small infants and there were many in our flight. Due to the CCU extension of it from Delhi, a significant number of DC passengers were from Kolkata.

It is quite a convenient flight with early afternoon departure from the US and early evening arrival in Delhi. It gets late by the time you get to Kolkata, but not past midnight. Mid-night departure from Delhi and arrival early morning in NY is also quite convenient. For those boarding from CCU it is a comfortable evening departure too.

Had the least jet-lag this time.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 28 Mar 2010 23:44

Isn't it false advertising to talk about a "non-stop" flight from point A to point B when it stops multiple times in between? Air India has been doing this for many years now.

I have never heard of another airline that does the same thing. Even when the HKG-BOM Cathay Pacific flight used to stop enroute in Bangkok (not sure if it does that now), it was always indicated as such in the itinerary, never shown as nonstop.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Mar 2010 23:50

I don't recall AI ever claiming it was a nonstop. They claimed it was direct - a standard industry term for a single flight number with halts.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Mar 2010 02:00

Terminology aside, it would be both functional and convenient for direct passengers did not have to do their customs and immigration in NY, but in DC for a direct/non-stop flight. Is it a US requirement to have it done at the first point of entry ? If so it defies logic. Or is it Air-India finding ways to circumvent some restrictions in trying to get a slot to fly to DC ?

I have flown Chicago-Mumbai via Paris and JFK-Mumbai via Heathrow by AI many times in the past two decades with security checks at Paris and Heathrow respectively. There was a time when luggages had to indentified in Heathrow on the tarmac before it getting transferred to the next segment. It was equally inconvenient. Reminded me of those days.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 29 Mar 2010 02:59

Air India may soon appoint an expat COO

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 736819.cms

Air India is likely to appoint a foreigner as chief operating officer (COO) in a bold attempt to turn around the beleaguered national carrier. A sub-committee of the board headed by civil aviation secretary M Madhavan Nambiar on Saturday interviewed three candidates, all expatriates.

According to Air India sources, the three are Gustav Baldauf, currently executive vice-president, flight operations, Austrian Airlines; Brock Friesen, COO, Air Malta, and George Reeleder, managing director, Rapidair, which is Air Canada’s domestic airline. The new COO, sources said, would have the task of salvaging Air India’s fortunes in three years. The three were chosen from 140 applicants for the post.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 29 Mar 2010 03:31

Bade wrote:Terminology aside, it would be both functional and convenient for direct passengers did not have to do their customs and immigration in NY, but in DC for a direct/non-stop flight. Is it a US requirement to have it done at the first point of entry ? If so it defies logic. Or is it Air-India finding ways to circumvent some restrictions in trying to get a slot to fly to DC ?

Yes it is.
As for the AI flight, I am not surprised that their "new" 777s are in bad shape. AI is known for the worst maintenance on the interior of their aircraft, and they are continuing their tradition. This was probably one of the first 777s delivered to them. My parents flew by AI (Mumbai-JFK non-stop) last year and they found both the aircraft and service to be extremely good. But that was a year ago. Plenty of time for AI to screw up things. Especially in their current financial condition, I doubt the aircraft interiors and service are going to get better.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Mar 2010 04:11

That would make it very inconvenient for passengers using US cities for transit to a third country, would it not ? I am sure many have to do it to fly to South America from Europe or Asia.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 29 Mar 2010 05:35

That would make it very inconvenient for passengers using US cities for transit to a third country, would it not ?

As if the US cares plus those poor souls have to get a transit visa

BTW is it passengers who are responsible for the rapid deteioration of aircraft interiors?

You see the odd seat badly broken down on other airlines but Indian carriers (even Jet a couple of months ago) show large number of seats with broken parts.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Mar 2010 06:09

BTW is it passengers who are responsible for the rapid deteioration of aircraft interiors?

When I whined about it to the stewardess, she smiled and blamed the passengers for the broken hand-rest. I did not quite get it then, but then it was mostly aisle seats which had this issue. Now, I think I can guess what is causing it. To reach the overhead bins would be hard for SDREs unless you climbed on the seats or the hand-rests. They are not designed for bearing the full human load. I do not think kids can do that kind of damage.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Apr 2010 21:03

Powerful fathers shoe horning their useless wards into a cushy government job.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/617 ... -face.html

Stop taking trainee pilots or face legal action: ICPA tells AI
New Delhi, Apr 2 (PTI):

Air India pilots have warned of legal action if the management does not stop the process of recruiting trainee pilots, saying the existing cockpit crew could be used as they were 'underutilised'.

"We fail to understand the reason" for recruitment of trainee pilots because the average flying hours of the existing crew had dropped from 90 to 60 hours per month and, in some bases, to even 40 hours, the Indian Commercial Pilots Association (ICPA) said in a letter to Air India CMD Arvind Jadhav.

As per the Memorandum of Settlement arrived at between the management and the ICPA in 2006, the pilots had agreed to fly up to 90 hours per month and 240 hours each quarter, the letter written by ICPA General Secretary S Sabu on Wednesday said.
Maintaining that the flying hours had fallen to an average of 60 or even 40 hours, it said, "this clearly proves that we are underutilised".

The major reason for the pilots being underutilised was the reduction in flights and capacity being undertaken by Air India and other carriers as part of cost-cutting measures.
"In this context, it would be prudent to redeploy pilots to various fleet, depending on requirement, rather than induct fresh trainee pilots which will result in additional financial expenditure in the near future as they too will have to be paid their wages and allowances," Sabu said.

Urging the Air India management to "re-examine the matter and stop the process" of recruitment, he said failing this, "the ICPA will be constrained to resort to legal action".
Air India has recently advertised for induction of trainee pilots, while its wholly-owned subsidiary Alliance Air is in the process of recruiting type-rated and experienced pilots for its fleet of Boeing 737s, CRJ-700s and ATR 42-320s.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 02 Apr 2010 23:09

just noticed Singha's comment on Thai girls

I think I posted this long ago. A friend of mine is in SIA and based on their experience with gals from Asian countries said

The Thai girls are the best. Smiling comes naturally to them. Filipinos follow close behind.

Sadly the worst two groups where SIA actually has to teach them to smile are

Chinese and Indian

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2010 00:17

Take it for its worth - I think its an aussie whining

From the SMH

http://tinyurl.com/ycocx3j

Dogs on tarmac

I flew recently into Mumbai airport on an Air India flight. After circling for 45 minutes the captain announced there were delays landing due to dogs on the runway and we were 10th in the queue.

Given the excess of security manpower at Mumbai airport and the focus on terrorism these days, if dogs can get onto the runway without wire cutters, then I wonder how easy it would be for someone with malicious intent?

- Tim Schroder

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 05 Apr 2010 01:27

well if there indeed are dogs roaming on the runway than it is an issue. Mumbai's 'strategic' location makes it relatively easy for a lot of living things to be able to get onto the tarmac.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 05 Apr 2010 04:02

true dog is an issue - but linking it to terrorism is a bit much

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Apr 2010 01:41

Yippie , much needed reforms in AI

Sick Air India must give upgrades to retired babus

In a move that will impose more burden on ailing Air India
, the civil aviation ministry has decided to give all its previous secretaries life-long free upgrades on air tickets to first class and access to lounges at any airport in the country.

The order, issued to Airports Authority of India, Bureau of Civil Aviation Security and the airlines, allows retired bureaucrats and their immediate family free automatic upgrades to first class cabins on any AI flight. AI so far used to give these privileges to only those of its chairmen or CMDs who had completed their tenure. A former chairman, P C Sen, who had not completed his tenure, even moved court to get the facility but failed to get it, sources said.

Along with this latest order, the ministry issued a list of 24 former secretaries who would be entitled to these facilities. The only former secretary still in service is Ashok Chawla who is now the finance secretary.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 07 Apr 2010 09:15

Air India board to discuss international base plan

http://sify.com/finance/air-india-board ... ihaac.html

The meeting, to be held on Tuesday, will discuss the viability of the cities of Dublin in Ireland, Birmingham in the United Kingdom, Barcelona in Spain and Copenhagen in Denmark as a base for Air India flights from India to the US.

Air India had earlier decided upon Frankfurt in Germany as an international hub but gave up the idea after it found the place to be too expensive to operate from.

The new 13-member Air India board has Mahindra & Mahindra Managing Director Anand Mahindra, Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry General Secretary Amit Mitra, industrialist Harsh Neotia and Air Chief Marshal (Retd) Fali H Major as independent directors.

After the new terminal at the Delhi airport starts commercial operations, the merged entity will make Delhi its hub.

Air India is expected to see losses go up by another Rs 5,000 crore in 2010-11. It has been partly bailed out by the government, by pumping in Rs 800 crore of equity in the current financial year and another Rs 1,200 crore is expected during the next financial year.

The cash-strapped carrier already has over Rs 16,000 crore working capital borrowings on its balance sheet and borrowings have risen sharply from Rs 6,550 crore in November 2007 to Rs 15,241 crore in June 2009 — primarily on account of interest payments on acquisition of aircraft.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 09 Apr 2010 08:43

^^^^ Truly staggering losses. Luckily the GOI is overflowing with money or I would suggest the gov't get out of the airline business.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 09 Apr 2010 13:08

negi wrote:Yippie , much needed reforms in AI

Sick Air India must give upgrades to retired babus

Along with this latest order, the ministry issued a list of 24 former secretaries who would be entitled to these facilities. The only former secretary still in service is Ashok Chawla who is now the finance secretary.

The real $$$ impact of this order is not because of these 24 guys traveling in fc cabins, this is a non-cash cost, but because the parasitic trade unions will use this as another 'example' and plunder another few hundred thousand crores of our tax money since they have to carry the burden of entire nation on their shoulders.