Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Mar 2010 18:12

July 12, 1971
The New York Times Archive (need to be subscriber to NYT to access the archives)
Malcom W. Browne
Excerpts

Camel Driver Befriended by Johnson Says His Troubles Now Are Just Kismet

Korangi, Pakistan - Bashir Ahmad, the camel driver who was swept up into a new world by Lyndon B Johnson a decade ago, contemplated the gift that changed his life completely, and for the worse.

The drifting sand and dust of the Sind desert had coated the gift with a khaki-colored film, and it stood unused in front of Mr. Ahmad's mud-brick house in this Karachi suburb.

But in 1961, when he received it at the Dallas State Fair, it was a shiny, new Ford pick-up truck, painted in the green and white colors of Pakistan's flag.

....
He has become a subject of frequent conversations among officials and other Pakistanis, who now suddenly look upon him as a symbol fo the strained relations that have developed with the United States since the beginning of the army crackdown on the East Pakistan autonomy movement March 25.
....
With his graying beard and loose, white clothing, he has the manner of a local patriarch. He has remained illiterate and he has never learned to drive.

After returning to Pakistan from the United States, Mr. Ahmad rented his truck to the United States Embassy, which paid him a regular income. This arrangement continued, with help from the embassy in a variety of forms, through the Presidency of Mr. Johnson. But it ended the day Mr. Johnson left the White House.

Since then, Mr. Ahmad has made his own way, and some American officials have expressed relief privately that he is no longer "Johnson's sacred cow."

"I had a driver working for me", Mr Ahmad said, "and we had a regular route from here to Thatta about 60 miles away."......But breakdowns became increasingly frequent. Then the worst blow fell - the advent of cheap diesel-powered bus transportation over the route he was working.

Asked why he had not prepared for hard times, he said: "It is my kismet. You cannot do anything unless it is the will of God. If God had willed me to save, I would have done so."

.....

Amid the flurry of recriminations here following the recent cuts in United States aid to Pakistan, Mr Ahmad has been cast as a symbol of inconstant American aid and friendship.

Asked how he personally feels about Americans, he said: "I am only concerned with America as a friend. I am concerned with friendshipo, not the actions of friends.

"But for me the Vietnam war is a bitter thing. It was because of that that my friend President Johnson had to leave the White House, even though Mr. Nixon still has not solved anything. And Mr. Nixon dropped me as if I had never existed. But that, too, was his kismet, and I do not blame him."

Seems like an appropriate parable for today's Pakistan and the lurkers here. At least this time, learn how to read and drive while the aid lasts. And don't give yourself airs, work yourself, don't hire a driver to do your work; and practice thrift.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 29 Mar 2010 18:51

abhishek_sharma wrote:Three iconic visits to the US

S Khalid Husain
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=231359

However, of the countless visits, only two, that of Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan in 1950 and of President Ayub Khan in 1961, stand out as state visits where the host, the US president, appeared honoured to greet the Pakistani visitors.

...

During Liaquat’s visit, the first by a top Pakistani leader to the US, a new US-Pakistan relationship was constructed, which was a manifest need of that time. It was, in essence, a relationship of “reliance” on the US for defence.

...

Liaquat Ali Khan made sure the defence-oriented relationship with the US did not betray the country’s honour. Pakistan continued to back the just Muslim causes in North Africa and Palestine so forcefully its advocacy of these became the dread of French, US and Israeli diplomats in the UN and other international forums. The admiration of the Arab world was shown by many new-borns in North Africa and the Middle East being named Zafarullah, after Pakistan’s foreign minister.

...

During the incumbent president’s US visit in May 2009 nothing was said on Kashmir , the water dispute with India or any other issue important to Pakistan. Seeking US support for the self, for “my” democracy, “my” government, and taking the son to official meetings transcended all other issues, and in line with which the agreement was signed under US auspices with President Karzai for talks on transit trade which will in time allow India to use the Wagah-Khyber route to Kabul. This is the same as unhooking Pakistan from its issues with India and hooking it to Indo-Afghan interests.

The second US visit of any consequence by a Pakistani head of state was that of President Ayub Khan. Forgetting for a while that Ayub Khan was the harbinger of martial law in the country and the resultant disasters, his US visit as president was a gain for the country in many ways, including his breakthrough with the Democrats, who traditionally have been more supportive of India. Getting the Democrats to also think of Pakistan’s standpoint and concerns was more than a useful outcome; it was reducing a prejudicial imbalance against Pakistan in the US Congress.

Liaquat Ali Khan was known to favour a policy of nonalignment, but was grappling with a model that would not result in Pakistan being overwhelmed in the “neutrals” camp by India. Pakistan would have accepted the role of a “senior” for India if it had conducted itself as one, but that was never to be, and Pakistan has always had to look for safeguards against the hostile intents of a bigger neighbour.

The country was not then entangled in alliances and pacts, and Liaquat Ali Khan impressively led his hosts to recognise that Pakistan could be a friend, not a contrivance, for US influence in South Asia.

The masterstroke was his visit to India in April 1950, a few weeks before his US trip, where Liaquat signed the famous Liaquat-Nehru Pact. This was widely covered in the US media and he came out looking very much a man of peace. When he arrived in the US, in May 1950, his reputation preceded him. For all purposes, Liaquat stole the show from Gandhian India as a peace-monger.

Liaquat’s visit was an experience for the Americans. President Truman was so taken in by his speeches, and their competent delivery by him, he is said to have wondered if the Pakistani prime minister’s speechwriter and elocution “coach” could be persuaded to stay back.

His was an all-Pakistani show. No foreign speechwriters, no foreign grooming and dress consultants, no foreign elocution instructors, who probably wept as their most recent charges from Pakistan spewed words that must have made parrots blush.

...

Into this environment arrived Ayub Khan, with his striking personality and commanding presence, and his attractive daughter Nasim Aurangzeb in her captivating Pakistani outfits . Both almost stole the show from Jack and Jacqueline. The Kennedys broke tradition by holding the state dinner for Ayub Khan and his daughter outside the White House, at Mount Vernon. It was the social event of the season, and it is hard to say who carried the evening – the Kennedys or Ayub and his daughter. It almost seemed the guests were more anxious to be photographed with the president of Pakistan and his daughter than with their own president and his wife.

One of the most successful official visits by a Pakistani was by Bashir, the camel-cart driver from Karachi. US vice president Lyndon Johnson, on a visit to Pakistan in May 1961, ran into Bashir when he stopped his motorcade on the street to chat with drivers of a row of passing camel-carts, and said to him in typical Texan drawl: “Yeah, now you come to see me in Texas, y’hear?” The reporters turned the routine Texan expression into an invitation from Johnson for Bashir. There was no getting away for Johnson.

Bashir arrived in the US in October 1961 and was an immediate hit. Johnson received him and apologised for the chill. Bashir’s response, “where there are friends like you there can be no chill, only warmth,” rocked America. From then on, the media hung on to every word Bashir uttered. All of America read and heard Bashir’s comments and loved him, and his country. Time magazine wrote that Bashir’s fluent homilies seem to come from the heart and “flow like the Rubaiyat.”

...

Bashir’s comments touched hearts in America like no speech of a visiting Pakistani honcho ever did. Bashir’s US visit was undoubtedly one of most successful by anyone from Pakistan.

The writer is a former corporate executive. Email: husainsk@cyber. net.pk

Another exercise in feeling good by Khalee-Husain about good old days when every trip to US by Paki leadership was claimed to be extra-ordinarily successful with interesting anecdotes.
Now I understand where Mushy got his marbles from.

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Mar 2010 18:58

X Posted.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is certainly the favourite training destination for the Jihadi Islamic terrorists of the world. It should thus come as no surprise that members of the Jihadi Islamic terrorist outfit Al-Takfir wa al-Hijra operating in the Tatarstan region of Russia opted to get their terrorist training in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

29 March 2010, 10:35

Four men likely belonging to radical Islamic organization identified in Tatarstan

Kazan, March 29, Interfax ………………….

The investigation determined that one of the four Tatarstan residents belonging to the group traveled to Pakistan in May 2006 to undergo combat training at Bulgar Jamaat in the province of Northern Waziristan. The man returned to Russia in 2008.

Another member of the group traveled to Pakistan in July-December 2008 to undergo similar training.

The third man left for Pakistan in the fall of 2006 but was detained in the city of Quetta and put into prison by local law enforcement agencies, where he fell under the influence of a Al-Takfir wa al-Hijra preacher. …………

Interfax

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Mar 2010 18:58

X Posted.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have completed the process of sweeping the Abdul Qadeer Khan nuclear weapon technology proliferation saga under the carpet.

A.Q. Khan who was involved in the most egregious example of nuclear weapon technology proliferation the world has seen after a slap on the wrist period of house arrest is now a free man:

Lahore High Court declares Dr. AQ Khan a free man

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 29 Mar 2010 19:54

This tale is what Kayani was telling to one and all in DC. It is hard to believe:

Kayani impressed U.S. officials, think tankers and journalists with the extent of the military's campaign against extremists. Since 9/11, the Pakistani army has sustained 30,810 killed and wounded, 10,000 in 2009 alone, or 10 soldiers a day. Terrorists arrested or killed: 17,742.
...
Last week, a Pakistani colonel was killed in action in Orakzai, which brought the total number of officers KIA against Taliban and their foreign friends (mostly Uzbeks) to 82, including one three-star general, two two-stars and six one-stars.

Link

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 29 Mar 2010 20:22

Intel Brief: US-Pakistan Relations Fleeting

Even with recent initiatives, the current close relationship between the US and Pakistan is likely to be short-lived, as Washington treats Islamabad as a fair-weather friend and no real strategy exists to seal a concrete deal, Sean Underwood writes for ISN Security Watch.

yogi · Post by **yogi** » 29 Mar 2010 21:44

Sania Mirza to wed Pakistani cricketer Shoaib Malik?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Mar 2010 21:50

jrjrao wrote:This tale is what Kayani was telling to one and all in DC. It is hard to believe:
Kayani impressed U.S. officials, think tankers and journalists with the extent of the military's campaign against extremists. Since 9/11, the Pakistani army has sustained 30,810 killed and wounded, 10,000 in 2009 alone, or 10 soldiers a day. Terrorists arrested or killed: 17,742.
...
Last week, a Pakistani colonel was killed in action in Orakzai, which brought the total number of officers KIA against Taliban and their foreign friends (mostly Uzbeks) to 82, including one three-star general, two two-stars and six one-stars.
Link

Man is this is true, it is all the more shocking how TSP is still able to torment India and unsettle the dhothiwallahs in Delhi.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Mar 2010 21:51

yogi wrote:Sania Mirza to wed Pakistani cricketer Shoaib Malik?

Thoo. This was the pig who thanked all Muslims for support to TSP team. Nothing more to say.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 29 Mar 2010 22:17

CRamS wrote:
yogi wrote:Sania Mirza to wed Pakistani cricketer Shoaib Malik?
Thoo. This was the pig who thanked all Muslims for support to TSP team. Nothing more to say.

is this rumor like Sonali Bendre and Shoaib Chuktar getting married? If untrue, can you imagine how Sania is going to react and where that may leave Pukes?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Mar 2010 22:21

jrjrao wrote:This tale is what Kayani was telling to one and all in DC. It is hard to believe:
Kayani impressed U.S. officials, think tankers and journalists with the extent of the military's campaign against extremists. Since 9/11, the Pakistani army has sustained 30,810 killed and wounded, 10,000 in 2009 alone, or 10 soldiers a day. Terrorists arrested or killed: 17,742.
...
Last week, a Pakistani colonel was killed in action in Orakzai, which brought the total number of officers KIA against Taliban and their foreign friends (mostly Uzbeks) to 82, including one three-star general, two two-stars and six one-stars.
Link

NPR had a segment with a Maj Gen Tariq Khan, the commander of the FC. He remarked that the Lt Col was soft for allowing the Orakzai Taliban to lay down their arms instead of shooting them for one of them picked the gun and shot the Lt Col.

No comments from the NPR reporter!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 Mar 2010 00:17

Satya_anveshi wrote: is this rumor like Sonali Bendre and Shoaib Chuktar getting married? If untrue, can you imagine how Sania is going to react and where that may leave Pukes?

It may be true according to this report. Now expect a barrage of condescending tripe from western media, MMS & Co, DDM, WKK et .al on how much love is there between India & TSP but for "extremists on both sides". Suits TSPA/ISI/LeT/USA just fine.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 30 Mar 2010 01:10

CRamS wrote: according to this report

I hope , after getting married she does spend some time in TSP apart from dubai. Only then she will realise the true meaning of "Freedom" she was enjoying in india.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 30 Mar 2010 01:23

would she play for India, I hope not. any way she is is a dying star.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2010 01:25

'Should I die to prove Pakistan is dangerous?'

archan · Post by **archan** » 30 Mar 2010 01:26

This Sania Mirza "issue" is not strategic. Please take it elsewhere, perhaps some bollywood gossip forum. Its her life, her decision. No more thoo thoo etc.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Mar 2010 01:32

I remember during the Kargil period when Musharraf was busy saying no Pakistani regulars were involved in Kargil, someone dug up a Paki website showing the posthumous awards with ranks and names of soldiers killed in recent battle.

If as many Paki officers and soldiers are dying in battle with the Taliban as Kayani claims, then the posthumous awards should be findable and should be long.

Anyone have any luck finding it?
Tx!

-Arun

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Mar 2010 03:10

ramana wrote:RamaY and Pranav please explore this site

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 53#p802153

Its a resources site for policy analysis by Ethan Mesquita and has a segment on Non State Actors....

I posted this in Jan 2010 in the Geo-Strategic dynamics thread.

Tahnks. Will go thru the details Ramana-ji.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 30 Mar 2010 03:39

jrjrao wrote:This tale is what Kayani was telling to one and all in DC. It is hard to believe:
Kayani impressed U.S. officials, think tankers and journalists with the extent of the military's campaign against extremists. Since 9/11, the Pakistani army has sustained 30,810 killed and wounded, 10,000 in 2009 alone, or 10 soldiers a day. Terrorists arrested or killed: 17,742.
...
Last week, a Pakistani colonel was killed in action in Orakzai, which brought the total number of officers KIA against Taliban and their foreign friends (mostly Uzbeks) to 82, including one three-star general, two two-stars and six one-stars.
Link

The official Pak figures are a tenth of that. 30000 sounds exaggerated.I dont think they even lost that many in all the wars with India.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Mar 2010 04:02

No progress in Pak-India water talks

Pakistani and Indian water officials failed to achieve any progress in the ongoing talks over water disputes on Monday, a private TV reported. Indian officials raised their own objections after Pakistan raised objections over Nimoo Bazgo project on Indus in the talks on Sunday. The talks were focussed over Nimoo Bazgo power project today. Pakistani officials raised objections over the design of the project which were rejected by the Indian delegation. Indian side handed over their own objections to Pakistani officials which were rejected by them. The two sides will further discuss the project in next session.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... ater-talks

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Mar 2010 04:08

Indeed, the word "strategic" is being perceived to have been belittled. It was expected that at least in one or two domains, measures of strategic significance would be announced to demonstrate American solidarity with the suffering people of this terror ravaged country; such measures could have gone a long way to pacify the prevailing anti-America public opinion.
Unfortunately, most of the issues which Pakistan perceives as of strategic importance remained a virtual non-starters, especially the nuclear energy generation capacity enhancement and resolution of Kashmir, and as corollary, the water issue. Despite President Barack Obama's campaign days' promise, Kashmir issue continues to be dormant. At the same time, another related issue of water diversion from rivers flowing into Pakistan through Kashmir has acquired a serious dimension. It was expected that the Obama administration would show similar resilience and perseverance on this issue, as it displayed in the context of health care legislation. (Pakistan as Pakifornia[/color

])
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... c-about-it

Yet nothing strategic about it!
KHAOLIDH IKBALL
Aaa Bullaya Lahore tho Nassiye, etthe aakal de sarre Unnay
Teerorism eddha khatam hovega, je howr naa Paaki Jummay.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2010 04:21

Jagan wrote:
jrjrao:

This tale is what Kayani was telling to one and all in DC. It is hard to believe:
Kayani impressed U.S. officials, think tankers and journalists with the extent of the military's campaign against extremists. Since 9/11, the Pakistani army has sustained 30,810 killed and wounded, 10,000 in 2009 alone, or 10 soldiers a day. Terrorists arrested or killed: 17,742.
...
Last week, a Pakistani colonel was killed in action in Orakzai, which brought the total number of officers KIA against Taliban and their foreign friends (mostly Uzbeks) to 82, including one three-star general, two two-stars and six one-stars.
Link

The official Pak figures are a tenth of that. 30000 sounds exaggerated.I dont think they even lost that many in all the wars with India.[/quote]

So its a case of the usual factor of ten.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2010 04:33

Prem wrote:http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... c-about-it

The general told the senators that if they make sure that Pakistan's economic and energy needs will be met "we are willing to forgo the military equipment that we have asked for."...
The urgency was amply elaborated when a general in the thick of war opted to forego his lifeline, the vital combat kit, in the favour of his county's economic and energy needs.

Heroic.
Kayani for President.

The injection of $125 million into the power sector is the only breeze of fresh air, which could radiate its effect. However, it is too little too late, as its impact would be inconsequential. It would only re-operatioanlise three dysfunctional thermal power stations having net capacity of around 400 MW, whereas in real terms the electricity shortfall has exceeded the dreadful mark of 5 GW.

So.. Pakistan chose not to maintain 3 thermal power plants and thereby lost 400MW.
$125 million... how much did those airborne radars from Sweden cost? Or the submarines from France?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Mar 2010 06:16

Prem wrote: http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... c-about-it

If visible response to economic and power generation issues is not generated in the immediate timeframe, anti-America sentiment would continue to rise exponentially. The Americans need to be more responsive towards the sensitivities of Pakistan and materially demonstrate as carrying it along as a trusted ally.

If you don't pay us now we will hate you more and try and kill you on more occasions...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Mar 2010 06:17

Shah Mahmood Qureshi's Interview

http://www.charlierose.com/download/transcript/10935

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 30 Mar 2010 06:18

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=231583

External debt rises to $55.8bn

Tuesday, March 30, 2010
KARACHI: Pakistan’s debt sustainability indicators deteriorated in July-Dec 2009 as external debt and liabilities were up, while foreign exchange earnings remained stagnant and the economy slowed down, the SBP said in its report.

The total external debt as percentage of GDP as well as debt servicing to export earnings ratio worsened during the period under review, the bank said. The stock of external debt and liabilities increased by $4.7 billion to reach $55.8 billion in the first half of the current fiscal year, it said.

External debt servicing was $2.648 billion by end of Dec 2009, up 9.7 per cent from the same period of the previous year, as the country repaid bilateral creditors, multilateral donors and private non-guaranteed debt. Yet, almost 25 per cent the increase in external debt and liabilities was due to depreciation of the US dollar against major currencies, the SBP in its report said.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 30 Mar 2010 06:20

It is an art to be paqis.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Mar 2010 06:24

There has been an interesting tussle going on in DT over the invasion of J&K by the tribals & regulars in Oct. 1947. The first article dealt with the tribal invasion. Now, this article, Did Jinnah know about Kashmir War ? Of course, we know history. But, to see a Pakistani write on this in a Pakistani paper is blasphemous. We have occasionally seen fleeting criticisms of the Quaid, but, AFAIK, this goes the farthest.

In his comment, ‘Jinnah’s role in the Kashmir War’ (Daily Times, March 24, 2010) on my op-ed a week earlier, ‘The 1947-48 Kashmir War’ (Daily Times, March 16, 2010), Yasser Latif Hamdani writes: “There is no evidence, let alone ‘overwhelming’ one, of Jinnah’s knowledge of the tribal invasion.” In the next paragraph he quotes Alastair Lamb who writes, “The Governor General, M A Jinnah was kept ignorant of all the details, though naturally he was aware that there was trouble of some sort brewing in Kashmir...” Lamb speaks about Jinnah being kept ignorant about details, not about the event itself.

The relevant portion from NWFP Governor George Cunningham’s quote Hamdani invokes strengthens the inference I draw above. Cunningham remarked, “Apparently Jinnah himself heard first heard of what was going on about 15 days ago, but said, ‘Don’t tell me anything about it. My conscience must be clear’.” In plain English, one can only read it to mean that Jinnah did not want others to know that he knew about the Kashmir campaign. Hamdani calculates that Jinnah first learnt about it around October 10, 1947. That means 14 days before “tribal warriors backed by Pakistani regulars and irregulars entered Kashmir in the last week of October”, as I wrote earlier. Fourteen days is long enough to put a stop to a misadventure. It was distinctly separate from the uprising in Poonch in August that comprised mainly Poonchis who had served in the Indian and Kashmir armies. The issue at debate is the invasion that started on October 24, 1947, that precipitated the decision of the Maharaja to accede to India. The events that preceded it are not relevant.

Hamdani claims that Major (retired) Agha Humayun Amin makes no claim about Jinnah being in the know about the Kashmir tribal incursion. In his book, The Pakistan Army till 1965 (1999), Amin writes, “The Muslim League’s high command had tasked Mian Iftikharuddin, Minister for Refugees, to prepare a plan aimed at ensuring that the Muslim majority state of Kashmir should join Pakistan. Brigadier Akbar Khan then serving in the Pakistan GHQ wrote an appreciation ‘armed revolt inside Kashmir’ on Mian Iftikharuddin’s request. It appears that Mr Jinnah had tasked Iftikharuddin to plan/handle the Kashmir business” (p 89). Further down, Amin talks of three principal parties that were involved in the whole invasion affair. Of the three, “One side was the Muslim League leaders like Shaukat Hayat (an ex-major), Iftikharuddin and Khurshid Anwar who had been ordered by Mr Jinnah to do something to help the Kashmiri Muslims...” (p 89).

Later Amin writes, “It may be noted that Mr Jinnah had ordered General Gracey the British Acting C-in-C...to attack Kashmir.” Gracey refused because Field Marshal Auchinleck, who was the Supreme Commander of both India and Pakistan, overruled British officers to take part in a war between India and Pakistan. Amin goes on to develop an argument that the Kashmir war was winnable. That is the opinion of a military officer and an author. One need not concur with that.

Hamdani latches on to Amin’s belief in victory in Kashmir and makes this interesting remark, “Jinnah tried to assert himself when he ordered [on October 24 or 25, 1947] the Pakistan Army to mobilise against the Indian Army’s movement towards Srinagar, but he was dissuaded from doing so by what can legally only be called ‘mutiny’ and nothing else.” How very interesting and original indeed! Instead of charging Gracey with mutiny, Jinnah promoted him as Pakistan’s second commander-in-chief in February 1948, which is several months after he allegedly mutinied. Gracey was C-in-C till 1951 when Ayub Khan took over.

Professor Ayesha Jalal has the Kashmir war in her book, The State of Martial Law: The Origins of Pakistan’s Political Economy of Defence (1990). She observes: “One has perforce to conclude that the government of Pakistan with the connivance of the Frontier ministry was actively promoting the sentiments that had encouraged the tribesmen to invade Kashmir. Admittedly, the Pakistani leadership refrained from officially committing the army in Kashmir. But they did so because of the severe shortage of arms and ammunition, not because this was the preferred course of action. If they had been in a position to do so, the Muslim League leaders, with Jinnah’s blessings, would have thrown in the army behind the tribal effort...The commander-in-chief of the Azad forces was a Pakistani army officer, colonel Mohammad Akbar, who went under the pseudonym of ‘General Tariq’ [legendary conqueror of Spain in the 8th century] and was known to be in close contact with Qayum Khan and through him with Jinnah and the League leaders in Karachi” (pp 58-9).

Hamdani and others who want us to believe that an obscure colonel forced Pakistan into a war without the knowledge of the top political leadership, especially someone of the stature of Jinnah, are insulting common sense. If that were true, then why did Jinnah not order Akbar Khan to be tried for gross insubordination that was tantamount to treachery? Akbar Khan should have been court-martialled. He was not, because he had acted only after clearance from the very top. Before he became really ill in June 1948, Jinnah exercised real power and authority and made key decisions. Liaquat Ali Khan was practically his sidekick.

In April 1948, Gracey was convinced by Jinnah to send troops into Kashmir. By that time some arms had been procured from Britain, writes Brian Cloughley in his book, A History of the Pakistan Army: Wars and Insurrections (2000). Thus officially Pakistan and India were at war from April 21, 1948. Cloughley notes that May 1948 onwards, India began to enjoy the upper hand, but the war remained stalemated with neither side scoring victory (pp 20-21). Major-General (retired) Shaukat Riza reached the same conclusion, that neither side could win the war in Kashmir in his book, The Pakistan Army 1947-1949 (1989). Under the circumstances, it was not extended to Punjab, but would have had India felt it needed to checkmate Pakistan. That is what I concluded in my previous article.

Jinnah was a poker player who projected invincibility even when he was dealt a bad hand by fate, asserts Hamdani. It is a peculiar way to sum up Jinnah’s politics, to say the least. I am convinced that if the Kashmir gamble had succeeded, Miss Jinnah, Soraya Khurshid, Yasser Hamdani and many others would have described it as yet another marvellous poker gambit of Jinnah. Our heroes never make a wrong move. If they do we feign ignorance about it.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 30 Mar 2010 06:27

How strategic was the Washington dialogue?
Tuesday, March 30, 2010
Dr Maleeha Lodhi

The writer is a former envoy to the US and the UK, and a former editor of The News.

What emerged from the Washington encounter was already committed assistance for some development projects and a pledge to fast-track delivery of military hardware for Pakistan. Important, however, were the assurances conveyed to the Pakistani delegation that America's long-term strategic interests were consistent with Pakistan's security, and that these lay east of Afghanistan.

But despite the well-orchestrated pageantry, the strategic dialogue made little, if any, visible progress on the big-ticket issues that topped Pakistan's priorities: preferential trade, addressing the troubled Pakistan-India equation and securing access to civilian nuclear technology. While the US didn't want to say no to Pakistan's requests, it didn't say yes either.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Mar 2010 06:36

From the article posted above: ^^

The future of Pakistan-US relations will hinge as much on how the Afghan endgame is played out as on other strategic issues. On the other security issues, Washington has listened to Pakistan's case but chosen to be noncommittal, even as it has tried to show more "understanding." These issues will not disappear just because Washington is unable to help address them: the unstable Pakistan-India relationship, the strategic challenges posed by the destabilising effects of the Indo-US civilian nuclear deal, the festering Kashmir dispute, and the complexities of the water issue. Public views of the US in Pakistan will also be determined by what didn't figure in the strategic dialogue: US policies towards the Muslim world.

Pakistan's decision-makers should draw an important lesson from the talks. Given the limits on Washington's capacity to address Pakistan's concerns – just as there are constraints on Pakistan's ability to support all of America's geo-strategic interests – Islamabad needs to change its US-centric mindset, learn to mobilise its own resources, rather than look to Washington to solve all its problems and fashion a foreign policy that is in sync with the multipolar world we live in.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 30 Mar 2010 07:13

Since 9/11, the Pakistani army has sustained 30,810 killed and wounded, 10,000 in 2009 alone, or 10 soldiers a day. Terrorists arrested or killed: 17,742.

That statement does not say much at all - can't infer the breakup of killed and wonded. same for terrorist. What is the definition of wonded in this case? Can be used however we (or they) want it.

But one thing is clear - pakis have put a $$ number on each of the head and collecting cash against these heads. Pakis are selling their own people's lives and collecting cash. There is no other reason for making this exaggerated statement with such ambiguity.

Let's see how much debate this will invite in pakistan, which is a classic case of rentier nation. Standard principles of a nation state do not apply to this sorry state.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Mar 2010 07:16

Pakistan's child soldiers

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... d_soldiers

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Mar 2010 07:38

Michele Flournoy's Interview, Undersecretary of defense, US

http://www.charlierose.com/download/transcript/10934

CHARLIE ROSE: And is Pakistan -- U.S.-Pakistan, one of those that you
would point to?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: I think Pakistan is a really important country for
the United States. We are trying very hard to build a strategic
partnership with Pakistan. In the immediate term, because they are a
critical partner in the war against al-Qaeda and its allies.

CHARLIE ROSE: And the war in Afghanistan as well.

MICHELE FLOURNOY: And Afghanistan, across the border. But also
because South Asia is such a critical region. And there’s -- it’s very
important to build up the conditions for stability in that region. And for
great -- for reduction of tensions in the region. And so Pakistan has got
to be a critical partner in that -- in that equation.

CHARLIE ROSE: The impression is that the Pakistanis have become a
better partner in the last six months.

MICHELE FLOURNOY: I think that one of the things that’s happened in
the last year or so is the extremists really crossed the line. They
brought terrorism to the Pakistani heartland, to the cities of Pakistan.

And so the Pakistani public now feels very much under siege and they have
very strong domestic political support to combat those violent extremists.
So that has increased the Pakistani military’s willingness to conduct
operations, to try to clear out some of these safe havens, to work more
closely with us, coordinating operations on both sides of the border and so
forth. So I think that overreaching by the militants has actually created
a groundswell of support for counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency in --

CHARLIE ROSE: In the sense that the Pakistani government recognized
that the Taliban was an enemy of theirs, even though it had been a friend
of theirs in Afghanistan earlier.

MICHELE FLOURNOY: Well, I think there’s a network of these groups,
and some of these groups are more in these crosshairs, if you will, for
Pakistan than others. But that’s an ongoing area of dialogue where we’re
seeking to go after the syndicate (ph) writ large.

CHARLIE ROSE: Are they doing everything that the president and the
secretary of state and the secretary of defense and you want them to do?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: Well, that -- they have done a tremendous amount.
They have sacrificed a great deal. We can always both be doing more. And
that’s what we’re going to be talking about this week.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK. Fair enough, but what would be doing more mean?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: I think doing more would be -- would include going
after some of the groups that are coming across the border into Afghanistan
and targeting our soldiers. Some of the groups that are less focused on
targeting Pakistan and more focused on targeting us.

CHARLIE ROSE: This would be the Haqqani group and people like them?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: Exactly.

CHARLIE ROSE: All right. So you’ve got to get -- Because they have -- the
Haqqani group has a relationship with ISI and other Pakistani institutions,
do they not?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: Well, I think one of the--

CHARLIE ROSE: Or they did?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: Historically they have, I think one of the things
that--

CHARLIE ROSE: And with us, too, when we were all engaged in
supporting the Mujahedin --

MICHELE FLOURNOY: I think the real name of the game here is
convincing our friends in Pakistan that the U.S. is not going to leave the
scene again. We did that historically. We walked away from this area
with fairly catastrophic effects.

That’s not going to happen again. And I think if they trust that reality,
that we are going to stay invested in the region, even as the contours of
our operations and our military footprint in Afghanistan changes over time,
that that -- if they trust that, they will be able to make a different
calculus about how to hedge their bets and make sure their interests are
protected.

CHARLIE ROSE: Are they prepared to engage in north Wazirstan as they were
in south Wazirstan?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: I think that’s something we’ll see over time. Right
now, the challenge for their military is they are very much stretched by
the operations they’ve taken on so far.

CHARLIE ROSE: Have you convinced them they should think less about India
and more about enemies within?

MICHELE FLOURNOY: Well, I think that’s something that’s a big part of the
dialogue is trying to understand their threat perception, having them
understand ours, and helping to talk that through.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Mar 2010 08:03

X Posted. There is one thing to be said of the citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, they can be very quantitatively precise in their Islam fuelled paranoia.

The rant’s and rave’s of the Chairman Indus Water Treaty Council Hafiz Zahoor-ul-Hassan Dahr:

Zahoor said New Delhi was also constructing Kargil Dam, the second largest in the world, on Indus, adding that that India was getting support from a consortium of nine non-Muslim countries, four multi-national companies, an international donor agency and three intelligence agencies to accomplish 17 mega water projects for controlling Pakistan’s water.

More rant’s and rave’s of Hafiz Zahoor-ul-Hassan Dahr, this time about the less pious Muslims of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, presumably of the non-Punjabi variety, collaborating with Hindu’s and Jews to permit a Crusader owned company nobble the pious in the Land of the Pure:

According to him, the anti-Pakistan forces have united and evolved a plan to turn the country into a desert and the irrigation system is being given to a Swedish company on contract to forward the vested interests of India. He said India was spending billions of dollars on this project with the financial support of Israel. He said it was very much clear that the Indian and Israeli lobbies were working on long-term projects to harm Pakistan.

Read it all in The Nation:

'India plans 52 projects to control Pakistan's water'

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 30 Mar 2010 08:10

Tribal invasion of Lahore

There are numerous nomad tribes across Pakistan including Jogi, Kungray, Qalander and Lullay. Thousands of women of these tribes have captured the City in guise of beggars’ women and children. In fact these nomads have divided City markets among them including Cantonment areas, markets, plazas and main arteries of the city.

Moreover Afghans and Tajik have also forced their women to begging on different points in the City. As a result besides beggaries, the percentage of robberies, pick pockets and drugs sale has increased in the City. Sources said there is contractor of each locality, who is called thambo and at least 50 to 500 beggars work under the supervision of a thambo.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » 30 Mar 2010 08:48

Airavat wrote:Tribal invasion of Lahore

From page two of that link:

Despite this fact the government has already declared ‘begging’ as crime, the begging is in full swing. According to the Begging Act if beggars caught up begging then they could be detained for 72 hours.
Thought police used to take action against beggars of and on but no permanent plan of action has been devised in this respect.

When are they going to detain the Pakistani Leaders for their constant begging all over the world?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 30 Mar 2010 08:59

Airavat wrote:Tribal invasion of Lahore

There are numerous nomad tribes across Pakistan including Jogi, Kungray, Qalander and Lullay. Thousands of women of these tribes have captured the City in guise of beggars’ women and children. In fact these nomads have divided City markets among them including Cantonment areas, markets, plazas and main arteries of the city.

Moreover Afghans and Tajik have also forced their women to begging on different points in the City. As a result besides beggaries, the percentage of robberies, pick pockets and drugs sale has increased in the City. Sources said there is contractor of each locality, who is called thambo and at least 50 to 500 beggars work under the supervision of a thambo.

I can't believe this. How are these contractor-beggars surviving in Paki cities without getting raped Shoiab Aktar types all over Lahore.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Mar 2010 09:13

Pakistan to get two nuclear reactors from China
Has China got IAEA & NSG approval for this ?

The sources said that frequent visits by President Asif Ali Zardar and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani helped secure the deal.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Mar 2010 09:16

17 Indians sentenced to death for killing a Pakistani in UAE

Seventeen Indians have been sentenced to death by Sharjah's Shariah Court for killing a Pakistani man and injuring three others in a vicious attack last year.

Judge Yousuf Al Hamadi sentenced the 17 men to death after all evidence, including DNA tests, showed they had knifed the Pakistani to death,

The attack in January last year followed a fight over the control of the illegal liquor business in Al Sajaa area of Sharjah, one of the emirates of UAE, the paper said.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 Mar 2010 09:18

Vivek_A wrote:How strategic was the Washington dialogue?
Tuesday, March 30, 2010
Dr Maleeha Lodhi

Its become common place for this RAPE b$%^&h as it is for other RAPE savages to lie through their teeth:

Pakistan's army chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani read this as acknowledgement of the fact that "Pakistan had as a nation stood up to terrorism."

I would ask this Jihadi as to what prevented the pigs to stand up to terrorism prior to 9/11? Why did it take Amrtiraj to shove his fist up Mush's butt and threaten to bomb them into a parking lot for them to stand up to terrorism?

Guys, have you noticed one thing. In all the post dialouge talk, both from US official and TSPians, there is complete silence on LeT?