Indian Military Aviation

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Apr 2010 16:19

Light Chopper competition is such a waste of time and money , HAL is more then competant to deliver a world class LOH within a short period of time.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Apr 2010 16:24

unfortunately HAL says it will take 5 years to complete it, that's far too long IMO. they have already wasted 4-5 years looking for an international partner that didn't materialise.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 02 Apr 2010 07:24

HAL, Rolls-Royce Expand Joint Venture Relationship

NEW DELHI - Rolls-Royce and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) have created a 50:50 joint venture company to manufacture compressor shroud rings at Bangalore that will be used in defense aerospace applications for other HAL-Rolls Royce ventures.

U.K.-based Rolls-Royce and HAL are already jointly producing the Adour Mk 871 engine for the Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer. The Indian Air Force has contracted for 66 Hawk trainers for $1.2 billion.

"Construction of a new purpose-built production facility, incorporating the latest in modern manufacturing techniques, will commence in 2010 with component production beginning in 2012," said Ashok Nayak, chairman of HAL.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 02 Apr 2010 16:07

nukavarapu wrote:The problem is with the friendly & warm sanctions he likes to impose on slightest provocation to satisfy his own vested interest.

Thats a different question altogether..And the answer is at a political level, not at a vendor level...

Though the assumption of a "long drawn" war is not borne out by our strategic scenario...Our possible conflict "partners" are nuke-armed, and the world is simply not going to allow a long drwn conflict between two..Our military planners too think likewise, hence our war wastage reserves are built and maintained to support only a short conflict...

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 02 Apr 2010 17:10

Indian Armed Forces Set for Paradigm Shift with Super Hercules Airlifter

Chak De
Hindustan Times

Indian Armed Forces Set for Paradigm Shift with Super Hercules Airlifter
Indo-Asian News Service
Marietta , March 30, 2010
First Published: 20:32 IST(30/3/2010)

In just about a year the Indian Air Force (IAF) will begin receiving the first of six C-130J Super Hercules airlifters it has purchased for $1 billion, the Aircraft Signaling a Paradigm Shift in the Manner in which the Armed Forces train for Specialised Operations.

For the First Time, the IAF will be able to Conduct Precision Low-Level Flying Operations, Airdrops and Landings in Blackout Conditions as the Aircraft will be Equipped with an Infrared Detection Set (IDS). And, to ensure 80 percent availability of the aircraft at any given time, its manufacturer Lockheed Martin has offered a long-term maintenance contract to the IAF on the lines of the ones it has with the US Air Force and the air forces of Australia, Britain and Canada.

The six aircraft for the IAF are currently on the production line in a cavernous building the Size of 76 Football Fields with the first one due to roll out in December.

"That is when the IAF will gets first look at the aircraft. After flight tests and other trials, the aircraft will be handed over in the first quarter of 2011," Jack Crisler, director of the C-130J programme, told a group of visiting Indian journalists, adding that the sixth aircraft was scheduled for delivery by the end of 2011.

The C-130J primarily performs the tactical portion of an airlift mission. The aircraft is capable of operating from rough, dirt strips and is the prime transport for air dropping troops and equipment into hostile areas.

The flexible design of the Super Hercules enables it to be configured for many different missions, Allowing for one aircraft to Perform the Role of many. Much of the Special Mission Equipment added to the Super Hercules is Removable, Allowing the Aircraft to Quickly Switch between Roles.

To this end, the six C-130Js will primarily be deployed for the operations of the Indian Army's Special Forces, even as the IAF Mulls the Purchase of another Six Aircraft, Some of them Configured as Midair Refuellers.

"Some of the other six could well be the MC-130J version," said Robert A. Lowe, Lockheed Martin's business development director (Air Mobility), adding that the tankers could refuel both Fixed wing and Rotary Aircraft.

As for the maintenance contract, Abhay Paranjape, Lockheed Martin's India director for the C-130J programme, said: "On our part, we have made the offer, promising 80 percent of aircraft availability at any given time."

"We are awaiting the IAF's response," he added.

Should this come through, it will be First Time the IAF will have Outsourced Aircraft Maintenance.

Meanwhile, the first of the 18 IAF Crews that will be Trained on the C-130J will arrive here in October. "We are planning to train 18 crews in three years," Crisler said.

The C-130Js will operate out of the IAF's Hindon Air Base on the outskirts of New Delhi and Lockheed Martin has already Begun Constructing Facilities for them at the Base.

These include Hangers and Maintenance Facilities, as also a Cockpit Simulator and a Weapons System Trainer.

"So Advanced is the Simulator that a pilot can Literally Walk from it to the Aircraft," Crisler pointed out.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 02 Apr 2010 17:13

India Orders Israeli Armed UAVs
DEBKAfile

The visitors checked on the progress of the DRDO Unmanned Gunship Helicopter, a joint Indian-Israeli project on commission for both their air forces, which is under Construction at an Israeli aerospace industry plant. India is going half-and-half with Israel in the costs of developing and production of the Innovative Helicopter.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 02 Apr 2010 19:22

Gents as promised here are all the articles related to the IAF that I have been able to collect from various mags beginning from 03 to 08/09. Please be aware that some of them are not directly related, however they do have a mention/description about the IAF.

http://ifile.it/ar8x0p1/Asian%20Fighter ... 202007.zip - Asian Fighter Tensions - Air International September 2007

http://ifile.it/bs03g7v/Battle%20of%20t ... 202007.zip - Battle of the Fighters Flanker vs Raptor - Air International march 2007

http://ifile.it/9xj08u1/From%20Russia%2 ... 202009.zip - From Russia With Love CIS Aircraft with the IAF AIR INTERNATIONAL FEB 2009

http://ifile.it/4qx7rol/IAF%20AT%2075%2 ... 20No.5.zip - IAF AT 75 Years n Counting-Air International Vol.73 No.5

http://ifile.it/xgbz0ls/Indian%20Flanke ... 202007.zip - Indian Flankers Air Forces Monthly July 2007

http://ifile.it/u3d7fs9/Indian%20Jaguar ... 009%20.zip - Indian Jaguars Still on the Prowl - Air International OCT 2009

http://ifile.it/x2ob3l5/Indian%20Migs%2 ... 202008.zip - Indian Migs - Air Forces Monthly March 2008

http://ifile.it/j0lsvg8/MIGs%20Reborn%2 ... 20No.2.zip - MIGs Reborn Mig 35 & Mig 29 K-Combat Aircraft May 2007 Vol-8 No.2

http://ifile.it/h6rb5jz/SU30%20Evolutio ... 202006.zip - SU30 Evolution The Super Flanker Combat Aircraft-July 2006

http://ifile.it/ixzvh7r/Combat%20Aircra ... V%2008.zip - Combat Aircraft Su30 MKIs Vol 9 NO.5 OCT NOV 08

http://ifile.it/9yj5en0/Thrust%20Vector ... 202008.zip - Thrust Vectoring New Magic or Old Mirage-Air Combat Monthly March 2008

http://ifile.it/h9ezalu/UPGRADED%20Hind ... 202008.zip - UPGRADED Hinds - Air Forces Monthly January 2008

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Apr 2010 19:33

Andy thanks a ton mate .

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 02 Apr 2010 19:37

negi wrote:Andy thanks a ton mate .

Negiuddin bliss to try em out and see if all links work mate I have only spot checked a couple.

Thanks,

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 02 Apr 2010 20:48

Andy, great compilation, gracias.

Rahul,

Thanks for the details on the Jag upg. any news on the RR vs. honeywell engine choice for the Jag. I'd think that the upgrade would be a good time to change engines as well?

CM.

jai · Post by **jai** » 03 Apr 2010 00:35

Question to the gurus and oldies - with birds like Jaguars, Mig 27, AN 32's etc which can operate from rough/unprepared fields/roads etc, do the pilots of these birds actually practice take offs and landings on such terrain ?

Is it a part of our strategy to disperse these fighters to these kind of areas in times of war ? Is there aquisition done with this strategy in mind ?

Do we prepare any of our highways and roads with this dual use in mind, specially in the launching states ?

Thanks for your answers .......

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 03 Apr 2010 00:43

jai wrote:Question to the gurus and oldies - with birds like Jaguars, Mig 27, AN 32's etc which can operate from rough/unprepared fields/roads etc, do the pilots of these birds actually practice take offs and landings on such terrain ?

Nope

jai wrote:Is it a part of our strategy to disperse these fighters to these kind of areas in times of war ? Is there aquisition done with this strategy in mind ?

Nope

jai wrote:Do we prepare any of our highways and roads with this dual use in mind, specially in the launching states ?

Nope.

that was easy..

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Apr 2010 01:35

Jagan wrote:
jai wrote:Question to the gurus and oldies - with birds like Jaguars, Mig 27, AN 32's etc which can operate from rough/unprepared fields/roads etc, do the pilots of these birds actually practice take offs and landings on such terrain ?
Nope

jai wrote:Is it a part of our strategy to disperse these fighters to these kind of areas in times of war ? Is there aquisition done with this strategy in mind ?
Nope

jai wrote:Do we prepare any of our highways and roads with this dual use in mind, specially in the launching states ?
Nope.

that was easy..

IF I MAY.

India does have a bunch of people who are trained at administrating a captured airfield.

Pakistan claims to have dispersal capabilities - some of their highways are capable of accepting F-16s they claim.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 03 Apr 2010 01:51

What is the true range of Heron old/new model, being purchased by the IAF, , different sources are claiming different ranges between 300 to 1000 miles for heron ??

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 03 Apr 2010 02:01

NRao wrote:

Pakistan claims to have dispersal capabilities - some of their highways are capable of accepting F-16s they claim.

Not F-16s, but certainly the F-7 and Mirage have been demonstrated in this clip

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 03 Apr 2010 02:58

Craig Alpert wrote:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 768731.JPG

here is one more news, belgian company barco will provide the avionics for ka-226 if it wins the indian tender,

http://www.barco.com/barcoview/images/M ... wnload.jpg

http://www.barco.com/barcoview/images/CDMS_dowmload.jpg

Barco's avionics displays selected by NIIAO for new Kamov helicopter

KORTRIJK, BELGIUM, 15 February 2005 – Barco has been awarded a significant contract by NIIAO (Zhukovsky, Moscow), the Russian Institute of Aircraft Equipment, for the delivery of high-performance avionics displays. Barco’s Control Display and Management Systems and Multi-Function Displays will be integrated into the cockpit of the new multi-purpose Kamov Ka-226 AG helicopter. For Barco, this contract represents a major step towards confirming its presence in the Russian Civil helicopter market.

read more here:
http://www.barco.com/en/pressrelease/1450/

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 03 Apr 2010 05:17

Cain Marko wrote:Andy, great compilation, gracias.

Rahul,

Thanks for the details on the Jag upg. any news on the RR vs. honeywell engine choice for the Jag. I'd think that the upgrade would be a good time to change engines as well?

CM.

CM saar there are details about the Darin III upgrade in the Jag article that I have posted bliss to review.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 03 Apr 2010 09:49

andy B wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Andy, great compilation, gracias.

Rahul,

Thanks for the details on the Jag upg. any news on the RR vs. honeywell engine choice for the Jag. I'd think that the upgrade would be a good time to change engines as well?

CM.
CM saar there are details about the Darin III upgrade in the Jag article that I have posted bliss to review.

Andy sir, where have you posted this article??? can you post the link for the same???

Added later..
Could someone please tell me how do i download the files from ifile.it.. it does not show a download button...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Apr 2010 09:56

andy, nothing new there about DARIN III.

jai · Post by **jai** » 03 Apr 2010 13:42

Not F-16s, but certainly the F-7 and Mirage have been demonstrated in this clip

Found an interesting clip of the Jag operating from road / Field. The section from 2.20 to 3.20.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 03 Apr 2010 13:54

Landing and taking off from Highways

That's a huge advantage for porki airforce to have. I am also told that they had all the civilian airport radars networked with PAF radars long back in 1975, a capability on which IAF is only beginning to work on now. Not to mention they had German radars with much better capabilities then our ruski ones

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 03 Apr 2010 14:13

Rahul M wrote:andy, nothing new there about DARIN III.

Apologies saar jee for the false hope...I thought there were details in there about the injun...yesshhh I should stop smoking...any how...

Bala saar the links are on this page itself bliss to download from there.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 03 Apr 2010 14:15

Jagan wrote: Not F-16s, but certainly the F-7 and Mirage have been demonstrated in this clip...........<SNIP>

Thanks for the link. But few question remain:

--An ability of aircraft to land and take-off from highway ia only one part of the set-up.
--Does PAF have teams which can quickly move to these predetermined locations to provide ground support to these a/c?
--Say, a flight of 3 Mirage-V land at location X; PAF would need to locate things like fuel bowsers, stores for re-armament and of course mobile ATC.
--AFAIK, these videos show more the ability of PAF to recover airborne assets in case the home base has been put out of order and before they can be re routed to alternate destination.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 03 Apr 2010 14:19

Manish_Sharma wrote:Landing and taking off from Highways

That's a huge advantage for porki airforce to have....

Why should it be? Where has PAF demonstrated ability for sustained operations from highways? If Indo-Pak shooting match reaches a stage where PAF has to make use of highways, what makes you think these will be left out? Also, what percentage of TSPA highways can support such operations?

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 03 Apr 2010 14:38

rohitvats wrote: Why should it be? Where has PAF demonstrated ability for sustained operations from highways? If Indo-Pak shooting match reaches a stage where PAF has to make use of highways, what makes you think these will be left out? Also, what percentage of TSPA highways can support such operations?

Rohit, apart from 17 airforce bases which PAF has let's say they have chosen 5 Highways to be used in case IAF wrath starts falling on PAF bases.

And they keep the following near these bases, in a warehouse etc.
1. Auxiliry power unit to start the planes.
2. Few tankers to fuel the planes.
3. Few trucks with air to air missiles, bombs + tools and parts to hang on the planes.

Agreed this won't be enough to do maintenence work etc but still would keep the PAF from being totally wiped out by IAF.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 03 Apr 2010 15:01

Manish_Sharma wrote:Landing and taking off from Highways

That's a huge advantage for porki airforce to have. I am also told that they had all the civilian airport radars networked with PAF radars long back in 1975, a capability on which IAF is only beginning to work on now. Not to mention they had German radars with much better capabilities then our ruski ones

[youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QJQKCUjcslM&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QJQKCUjcslM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]
Imagine if they get these .......

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Apr 2010 15:40

Noob Q onlee:

With the arrival of the LCH, what is the supposed role of the weaponised Dhruv? Isn't the WSI Dhruv role overlapping and fit for scrapping?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Apr 2010 16:12

Manish_Sharma wrote:Landing and taking off from Highways

That's a huge advantage for porki airforce to have. I am also told that they had all the civilian airport radars networked with PAF radars long back in 1975, a capability on which IAF is only beginning to work on now. Not to mention they had German radars with much better capabilities then our ruski ones

What advantage? Unless combat aircraft ops are as simple as parking a over night in a girlfriend's house and driving off. Why have airbases at all when you can have roads?

The Swedes implemented this in the cold war, The Packees copied and advertised and the info is doing what it was designed for - making SDREs shake. The same question was asked in this forum a generation ago (Maybe 1998) and now again in 2010

OT for this thread.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2010 16:16

if all major PAF bases are shut down by IAF and IA missile attacks, their problems will be quite
severe and playing scarlet pimpernel by hiding in the wheat fields off the korean built motorway
will sustain like say 5% of the counter sortie rates a suite of proper AFBs could provide.

they will effectively be out of the war and IAF would have a field day massacring any parakeets
scared up from the bushes by roving interceptors and pounding the PA at will.

I have even seen photo of C-130 doing kamandu style landing and takeoffs from the motorway,
no doubt to evacuate key personel like family, friends, harem nymphets and bags of $$ to 'safer locations' vs being in rawalpindi or lahore.

the swedish went for dispersed basing strategy as they had some natural advantages like
caves and thick forests, and faced a vastly superior soviet union which would in the first few mins, smack any proper airbases and storage sites with hundreds of cruise and ballistic missiles followed by regiments of tactical airpower dedicated to helping the invasion force.

the swedish also invested to make the Viggen undercarriage as strong as a naval fighter
to support a high angle of landing into forested bordered highways..and those canardy foreplanes probably helped in that. the F-solah is about the worst in doing that with its spindly
undercarriage and narrow wheelbase which makes it susceptible to rolling motion while landing.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 03 Apr 2010 16:44

Other than Harrier jets, no other platform could be used to land at irregular places and go for operations, .
with its VTOL ,it requires very less support
what pakis show is that they are ready to convert their cities as battle grounds, and/or their jets can pop up from anywhere ,giving a surprise advantage ,over incoming enemy ground attack,. but this is only possible when they are on par with the enemy in air power, which will not be a reality, hence
,now what they mean is that their jets can run away from any air battle and could even land on roads to save themselves .

In real battle , they wont be able to use this road landing trick effctively against us..
maybe these exercise are done to motivate paki abduls..

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 03 Apr 2010 17:00

Bala Vignesh wrote: Added later..
Could someone please tell me how do i download the files from ifile.it.. it does not show a download button...

You'll have to click on the "Request Download Ticket" button, you are then redirected to the file download button.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 03 Apr 2010 17:07

Once Phalcon starts manning the borders, nothing is safe for the Pakis, whether it is AFB or the motorways...Even those hanging balloons from israelis able to clearly see what is going in and going out, where it is landing etc...angry missiles like nirbhay, Brahmos etc makes the life much harder.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 03 Apr 2010 17:09

shiv wrote:The Packees copied and advertised and the info is doing what it was designed for - making SDREs shake. The same question was asked in this forum a generation ago (Maybe 1998) and now again in 2010

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2010 19:07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fye_2Aip ... re=related

witness the meaty tandem rear wheels of viggen and its thrust reverser permitting it to back up
like a car without any external tractor support

and it takes off on a dime again.

them swedes invested in a total "system" on air and ground for dispersed war....pakis trying
psyops kamandu tactics about once a year do not count!

they can run, but they cant hide - aerostat radars will pick them and guide jaguar bombers to
the scene with cluster bomblets.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 03 Apr 2010 20:10

Thats why I want the Gripen NG - its thought out as a system.

Wonder how the Viggen would have fared if it did not have PW engines during the DPSA evals

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Apr 2010 20:20

I don't think the PAF thing is exactly new, back in the 80's pushpinder singh's book had snippets that F-7's practiced landing on highways around the islamabad area (standard disclaimers about weak memories apply). from there to something actually tactically useful is a long way, we don't know if PAF has done that. even so, PAF being the most innovative and competent of the lot, it's better to take them seriously.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Apr 2010 21:02

As long as Paki trouser color remains what it is I would not worry about anything.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Apr 2010 21:21

Rahul M wrote:I don't think the PAF thing is exactly new, back in the 80's pushpinder singh's book had snippets that F-7's practiced landing on highways around the islamabad area (standard disclaimers about weak memories apply). from there to something actually tactically useful is a long way, we don't know if PAF has done that. even so, PAF being the most innovative and competent of the lot, it's better to take them seriously.

Nobody will believe me but I will say it anyway. Paki contracts fro highway building to aircraft landing standards would have been given to the highest kick-back payment maker. Remember that if building a highway costs X pakdollars, the bribe is 10% of X. But if the contract to build to a/c landing standards is for X+Y pakdollars - the amount of bribe given to the paki for the contract is 10% of X+Y.

We curse our slow acquisition and dhoti-Antony - but many Indian contortions are designed to take the kickbacks out. Believe it or not.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Apr 2010 21:25

no reason NOT to believe you.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Apr 2010 21:35

On a related note may I point out that there is very little difference between a hardened highway and a runway. Except the traffic. But what counts is the other facilities for aircraft and crew. Fuel, maintenance, hangars, accommodation. And weapons/other payloads. If you designate areas of highway as "alternate runways in wartime" you need to build facilities in the area and perhaps these were invisible in Sweden in the 1960s but satellites will see them nowadays. And they will get knocked out. If an aircraft just going to land on any damn stretch of highway it will have to keep going to the next petrol pump and ask for aviation fuel. And then what? Fill up with Octane?

PS and that business of Paki radars..well in the 1960s - the US transferred its tech and weapons wholesale to the Pakis. For a further discussion you need to see the other forum.