Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 01 Apr 2010 21:08

Bobby - the cool helicopter.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Apr 2010 21:10

^^
sunny - his big brother !

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 01 Apr 2010 21:14

so now the strategy to increase post count in brf is to do
LOL

Mr_Li · Post by **Mr_Li** » 01 Apr 2010 21:45

Mr. Li suggest call it Mrs. Li
pakis will be stunned to be attacked by a female helicophturr

( i am withdrawing my name suggestion. the wimp PM will call it lotus or something)

biswas · Post by **biswas** » 01 Apr 2010 22:01

My mate suggested:

Spinny machine of doom and stuff.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 01 Apr 2010 22:13

How about names from Atharvana Veda? Something like Kaalbhairav.

Aakashbaan.

Jaambubali.

Even Ghatotkacha wouldnt be a bad name. Or we could name it after many of the flying vampire legend names in the Carpathian/Transylvania regions.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 02 Apr 2010 01:29

I'd like to see the name Shikari

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 02 Apr 2010 01:43

What about 'Bhid' for wasp?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 02 Apr 2010 01:51

No you looosers, it should be called a "Knight Rider".

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Apr 2010 02:29

Black Scorpian , Mushbuster, KaalaKundh .

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 02 Apr 2010 02:57

Al Khalid Ka Baap

On a serious note, Takshak is excellent. But it'd be nice to name it after a bird of prey.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Apr 2010 03:31

takshak is taken, NSTL's thermal torpedo.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Apr 2010 03:39

Sriman wrote:Al Khalid Ka Baap
On a serious note, Takshak is excellent. But it'd be nice to name it after a bird of prey.

Takshak is a snake in the Pariks hit story.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 02 Apr 2010 04:22

I think what Rahul is saying is in the bigger picture, fuel consumption by the 126 aircraft is immaterial. The value of bio-fuels to the IAF remains limited to the feel-good factor, besides being logistical problem. The IAF cannot be bother to create a supply chain for bio-fuels. Coming up with bio-fuel solutions is best left between the automobile and civil aviation industries and the environment ministry. Its irrelevant in a discussion on the MRCA.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Apr 2010 06:35

you are still missing the point, as of now biofuel tech is nowhere near the level required to have even a moderate effect on either the Indian energy scenario or military preparedness.
the time when that can start to happen is still a long way away in the future. as of now the ability of f-18's to fly on biofuels, (even ignoring the complication that might arise from that) is completely useless to us.

please don't bring brazil's example, roughly speaking, brazil has 5.7% of the world's landmass with 2.8% of the population, we have 2.1% of the world's landmass with 17.3% of of the world's population. a population that is still growing, meaning it will need even more food in the future, a population that is also developing, meaning it will require more energy in the future. when even current levels of demand are impossible to be met by biofuels.

for heaven's sake please do calculate the figures I requested before continuing this.

Mr_Li · Post by **Mr_Li** » 02 Apr 2010 06:52

I have been working on a feasibility report for 3rd generation bio-fuels.....

1st gen bio fuel = gobar
2nd gen bio fuel = biodiesel
3rd gen bio fuel = ?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Apr 2010 06:53

I have been working on a feasibility report for 3rd generation bio-fuels. I would like to argue but the points I might put further may sound way too futuristic. If anyones interested, I can compile a summary. The original doc is copyrighted.

excellent ! please do post in the appropriate threads in tech-econ forum. there will be more than one I think. I'll be quite interested.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 02 Apr 2010 07:27

Rahul

I talked to someone who is one of the senior people developing for and leading the Indian Biodiesel mission since its inception. A few key points from my discussion :-
i) Seed yields vary by as much as 100% between the semi-arid and totally arid areas, but on an average case (about 1.2 tons/ha), for 30% of Indian HSD fuel demand to be substituted to bio-diesel, we would need 16.25 million hectares of land to be under cultivation. An average tree starts yielding from 2nd year onwards and matures fully in 5.
ii) The total wastelands in India stand at 125 million hectares (GoI estimate), but out of that 33million is targeted to be claimed back by afforestation. Accounting for non-commercially viable and far strewn areas, we still have about 50million hectares that are prime candidates for this cultivation and herein lies the unique opportunity for India. (Jatropha's potential was only realised in this decade)
iii)The present capacity has mostly been built for R&D since some Jatropha variants were essentially India-specific plants as were some of the chemical esterification processes but we need to scale up the capacity to ~45 times to achieve the 30% percent goal.
iv)Recent GoI's biodiesel policy states 20% biodiesel goal by 2017.
v)And I guess most relevant to our Mil discussion: The proposal for adaptation of the fuel and its characterization for military applications came from the Defence Forces itself (can't name the organization). This is not to say something pathbreaking would take place but it makes sense because the focus has been to gradually get the biggest consumers involved.

There were other major benefits and byproducts that tie in largely to socio-economic aspects but I won't take it that far. Hope this clears some doubts.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Apr 2010 07:41

capital ! now we have a good discussion rolling !

one query before I reply.

i) Seed yields vary by as much as 100% between the semi-arid and totally arid areas, but on an average case (about 1.2 tons/ha), for 30% of Indian HSD fuel demand to be substituted to bio-diesel, we would need 16.25 million hectares of land to be under cultivation. An average tree starts yielding from 2nd year onwards and matures fully in 5.

I think you are talking of seed yields as 1.2 tons/ha. what would be the corresponding biodiesel yield ?

also, just so that we are on the same page, I'm taking our consumption figure as 2.67 million bbl/day.
1 bbl = 159 litres roughly speaking.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 02 Apr 2010 07:44

Nope sirji, seed yield is 3.75 tons per hectare. I confirmed this. The oil yield is 1.2 tons/ha.

Second, you are mentioning ~2.7 million bbl/day which is the total fuel consumption. I specifically mentioned 30% substitution of HSD (high speed diesel) - the dominant fuel type.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Apr 2010 07:49

could you post your calculation on how you got the 16 million ha figure ?
edit : ah I see the problem, do you have the figures for diesel ?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 02 Apr 2010 07:59

Rahul M wrote:could you post your calculation on how you got the 16 million ha figure ?
edit : ah I see the problem, do you have the figures for diesel ?

That isn't my calculation. That is Mission's calculation. But from what I can gather, the Indian HSD demand is about 40-42 million tons per annum. (40/1.2)*(30/100) ~= 10 million ha. The Mission would have accounted for tree maturity age differentials (4.5 to 6 years), 2017 HSD projections.

P.S: Why are we discussing the scientific viability of biofuels in India? My takeaway from the discussion was that the Defence Forces have set the ball rolling as far as adaptation for military applications is concerned.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Apr 2010 08:02

Why are we discussing the scientific viability of biofuels in India?

because it's important ?
and set the ball-rolling /= useful here and now.

thanks for the info tho'.

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 02 Apr 2010 10:22

what about

"Drona"???

chiragAS · Post by **chiragAS** » 02 Apr 2010 20:48

sorry for the interruption. didnt know where to ask this so asking in this thread.

noob question (guess it must be discussed to death, anyways):- ACMI pods fitted on Su-30MKI's in red flag, gives speed, turn rate, G's, altitude etc.
in short lot of info. Indian ground controllers were not allowed to use their facility to direct our birds.

Don't you think this is stupid. with this kind of data, one can build a computer model feed it to f18s
and voila the f18s onborad computer will be able to assist a pilot precisely when needed.

Imagine such data simply handed over to pakis new f16s.

It cannot make much of a difference but it will surely give the paki pilots an advantage.

If i am not wrong first excercise in India was allowed when the then external minister Yashwant Sinha (earlier he was finance minister, he relpaced jaswant) agreed to a US official for air excercise to start a new chapter of co-operation.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 03 Apr 2010 13:32

I am sorry to interrupt the ongoing discussions on "namakaranam" and bio-fuel....

I just got this weird thought today morning while having my breakfast....let me share it with you jingos

Lets say there occurred a major terrorist attack on an Indian city which lead to Op-Parakram type of situation...and as a fall back plan or as a last resort, Paki ISI backed JuD or LeT or any other India-focused Pakistani non-state actors got hold of a nuclear dirty bomb and have planned an attack on India by shipping it to India from Gulf or Myanmar etc{weird

}..and the bomb exploded in Paki territory itself due to mis-handling before it was all set to sail to Indian shores.....and Indian leadership came to know about this nuclear explosion but wasn't sure that Indian territory was the actual target and neither world knows about it....in this kind of situation..

How would Indian leadership react?
How would World Govts react?
What possible actions will be taken by India and World(US)?

btw I liked the name "Garuda" for LCH.

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 03 Apr 2010 15:11

Venkarl wrote:I am sorry to interrupt the ongoing discussions on "namakaranam" and bio-fuel....

I just got this weird thought today morning while having my breakfast....let me share it with you jingos

Lets say there occurred a major terrorist attack on an Indian city which lead to Op-Parakram type of situation...and as a fall back plan or as a last resort, Paki ISI backed JuD or LeT or any other India-focused Pakistani non-state actors got hold of a nuclear dirty bomb and have planned an attack on India by shipping it to India from Gulf or Myanmar etc{weird }..and the bomb exploded in Paki territory itself due to mis-handling before it was all set to sail to Indian shores.....and Indian leadership came to know about this nuclear explosion but wasn't sure that Indian territory was the actual target and neither world knows about it....in this kind of situation..

How would Indian leadership react?
How would World Govts react?
What possible actions will be taken by India and World(US)?

btw I liked the name "Garuda" for LCH.

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 03 Apr 2010 15:14

Ashish J wrote:
Venkarl wrote:I am sorry to interrupt the ongoing discussions on "namakaranam" and bio-fuel....

I just got this weird thought today morning while having my breakfast....let me share it with you jingos

Lets say there occurred a major terrorist attack on an Indian city which lead to Op-Parakram type of situation...and as a fall back plan or as a last resort, Paki ISI backed JuD or LeT or any other India-focused Pakistani non-state actors got hold of a nuclear dirty bomb and have planned an attack on India by shipping it to India from Gulf or Myanmar etc{weird }..and the bomb exploded in Paki territory itself due to mis-handling before it was all set to sail to Indian shores.....and Indian leadership came to know about this nuclear explosion but wasn't sure that Indian territory was the actual target and neither world knows about it....in this kind of situation..

How would Indian leadership react?
How would World Govts react?
What possible actions will be taken by India and World(US)?

btw I liked the name "Garuda" for LCH.

With all due respect,,i cant think of any other reply,,,
More apt qustion wud be,,,How would India reply if LeT gets hold of(with help of Pak State), all of its nuclear weapns and threaten India 2 vacate Kashmir,,,,
This scenario is most likely,,rather than they trying to ship nukes into India(Y wud they need 2 ship it to India???)

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 03 Apr 2010 15:19

Yes Sir I know... its completely understandable

what purpose would this serve?

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 03 Apr 2010 15:29

Ashish J wrote:
Venkarl wrote:..and the bomb exploded in Paki territory itself due to mis-handling before it was all set to sail to Indian shores.....and Indian leadership came to know about this nuclear explosion but wasn't sure that Indian territory was the actual target and neither world knows about it....in this kind of situation..

How would Indian leadership react?
How would World Govts react?
What possible actions will be taken by India and World(US)?

btw I liked the name "Garuda" for LCH.

With all due respect,,i cant think of any other reply,,,
More apt qustion wud be,,,How would India reply if LeT gets hold of(with help of Pak State), all of its nuclear weapns and threaten India 2 vacate Kashmir,,,,
This scenario is most likely,,rather than they trying to ship nukes into India(Y wud they need 2 ship it to India???)

Please re-read the bold part in my post and then read your question.

India is unaware of LeT has a dirty bomb for India....and suddenly a Nuke bomb goes off on the other side..given the situation..my question was direct...how will India and world react?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Apr 2010 17:12

everyone knows in that case we will express deep sorrow at the loss of the peace-loving pakistani people and send parle-g biscuits by the ton to help them in their hour of need.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 03 Apr 2010 17:49

Yes we will express deep sorrow , send them parle-g, glucon d etc....c'mon Rahul ji...

"Some" rougue ISI elements (well I think entire ISI is rogue) have smuggled the requisites for a dirty bomb and made one destined to India via terrorist network to have a tactical advantage during Indo-Pak turmoil. And this thing goes off in the Land of Pure during making process or transport ....

Paki leader is unaware of this, hearing the news of nuke explosion, in utter confusion or hurry, will he call for nuke attack on India? I want to know what kind of political implications will take place? Will that invite stripping Pakistan off nuclear status? Above all >> will that be in the interest of India?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Apr 2010 17:54

since you are interested, have a look at the archives, we have discussed this topic more than once earlier.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 03 Apr 2010 17:58

No thanks. Sorry to interrupt the naming saga...yanjoyy

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 04 Apr 2010 01:25

are these B52s by any chance

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 04 Apr 2010 01:38

NehraA wrote:are these B52s by any chance

Four engines. Wings swept back through approximately the same angle. Looks like it yeah. Where'd you get the pic?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 04 Apr 2010 01:40

Viv S wrote:
NehraA wrote:are these B52s by any chance
Four engines. Wings swept back through approximately the same angle. Looks like it yeah. Where'd you get the pic?

Eight Engines. (mounted on four pylons)

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 04 Apr 2010 02:12

google earth

diego garcia

someone once told me that google edits these, and places fake photoshopped planes in american and NATO basses. same for other sensitive amriki installments

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 04 Apr 2010 15:02

A zimble doubt onree..

Everyone knew that our new LCH has bullet proof cockpit glass so that they can with stand 7.6 mm bullet shots. These cockpit glass is held in its place using metal casings. Can these casings also withstand bullet shotsl?

Because, what if an evil abdul, knowing that he can't break the galas, aims his shots to these casings and damages them so badly that they can't hold the heavy cockpit glass any longer? Then our poor pilots has to pilot an open top helicopter protecting them selves from sun, sand and bullets.

Makes sense only no?

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 04 Apr 2010 15:24

Venu wrote:A zimble doubt onree..

Everyone knew that our new LCH has bullet proof cockpit glass so that they can with stand 7.6 mm bullet shots. These cockpit glass is held in its place using metal casings. Can these casings also withstand bullet shotsl?

Because, what if an evil abdul, knowing that he can't break the galas, aims his shots to these casings and damages them so badly that they can't hold the heavy cockpit glass any longer? Then our poor pilots has to pilot an open top helicopter protecting them selves from sun, sand and bullets.

Makes sense only no?

no abdul will be able sustain such accurate and huge amt of fire on bird which will be raining hell on him

. if abdul decides to use a sniper, the first hit will not cause substantial damage and the pilot will be able to locate him and book him a room in hotel jannat with his 72s(BTW paid by the hour) afterall, not even abdul will assume that the bird will just come and start hovering over it

, now if abdul manages to lay his hands on amriki stinger(or chinese copy) then yindoo bird will have to buzz off