People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 05 Apr 2010 13:05

hulaku wrote:Instead of giving visas on paper they have stopped issuing these visas altogether.

I say this out of personal experience.

I wonder if the Indian Government has noticed this?

So, how will you leave for China?

Kavu · Post by **Kavu** » 05 Apr 2010 13:35

Klaus wrote:
Nobody is name-calling here. You always have the 'Report Post' option. Apart from that, why the takleef? I was lashing out at the hopeless '==' attempt made in Beijing in the report, nothing else.

I wasnt talking about you or anyone in BR, rather my feelings on our society especially North India and Southern urban parts on our North Eastern citizens.

I do not think we are on the same page here. I am all for planning side-by-side with economic resurgence. However, I cannot think of any suitable reason why we would want to buy time (if anybody has to buy time, its the Chinese and not India, that might well be the reason for this trip although India has its longpending concerns). The news report talks about assertive dialogue from both sides and though Kondapalli is giving his opinion (Btw I have an instinctive dislike for anything jholawala, just like most BRFites), I would say the report is pretty unbiased though factually incorrect on a few counts.

I could see some,
Poverty,
UN Security Council Seat is a on India's high priorities.
Our Military capabilites are not at par.
India has more to loose with a military confrontation or a diplomatic flare up with China, at this point of time.

Dalai Lama and Tibet is our trump card, I believe his health will play a huge role in this and so will the acceptance of the next lama in Tibet, wether he is from India and or from China, if from China our ability to get him here!

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 05 Apr 2010 14:42

shyam wrote:So, how will you leave for China?

Simple, I cannot go only.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 05 Apr 2010 16:25

Looks like the Sichuan quake and previous mine disasters in China has taught them a few lessons, but again whether they've learnt it is another issue.

There might be some lessons for us to learn from this as well, in the fields of mine safety and aggregates management.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Apr 2010 07:40

When will India be a cyber-security superpower?

TORONTO — Turning the tables on a China-based computer espionage gang, Canadian and United States computer security researchers have monitored a spying operation for the past eight months, observing while the intruders pilfered classified and restricted documents from the highest levels of the Indian Defense Ministry.

In a report issued Monday night, the researchers, based at the Munk School of Global Affairs at the University of Toronto, provide a detailed account of how a spy operation it called the Shadow Network systematically hacked into personal computers in government offices on several continents.

The Toronto spy hunters not only learned what kinds of material had been stolen, but were able to see some of the documents, including classified assessments about security in several Indian states, and confidential embassy documents about India’s relationships in West Africa, Russia and the Middle East. The intruders breached the systems of independent analysts, taking reports on several Indian missile systems. They also obtained a year’s worth of the Dalai Lama’s personal e-mail messages.

The intruders even stole documents related to the travel of NATO forces in Afghanistan, illustrating that even though the Indian government was the primary target of the attacks, one chink in computer security can leave many nations exposed.

“It’s not only that you’re only secure as the weakest link in your network,” said Rafal Rohozinski, a member of the Toronto team. “But in an interconnected world, you’re only as secure as the weakest link in the global chain of information.”

As recently as early March, the Indian communications minister, Sachin Pilot, told reporters that government networks had been attacked by China, but that “not one attempt has been successful.” But on March 24, the Toronto researchers said, they contacted intelligence officials in India and told them of the spy ring they had been tracking. They requested and were given instructions on how to dispose of the classified and restricted documents.

On Monday, Sitanshu Kar, a spokesman for the Indian Defense Ministry, said officials were “looking into” the report, but had no official statement.

The attacks look like the work of a criminal gang based in Sichuan Province, but as with all cyberattacks, it is easy to mask the true origin, the researchers said. Given the sophistication of the intruders and the targets of the operation, the researchers said, it is possible that the Chinese government approved of the spying.

New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/science/06cyber.html

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Apr 2010 07:41

The Canadian researchers stressed that while the new spy ring focused primarily on India, there were clear international ramifications. Mr. Rohozinski noted that civilians working for NATO and the reconstruction mission in Afghanistan usually traveled through India and that Indian government computers that issued visas had been compromised in both Kandahar and Kabul in Afghanistan.

“That is an operations security issue for both NATO and the International Security Assistance Force,” said Mr. Rohozinski, who is also chief executive of the SecDev Group, a Canadian computer security consulting and research firm.

The report notes that documents the researchers recovered were found with “Secret,” “Restricted” and “Confidential” notices. “These documents,” the report says, “contain sensitive information taken from a member of the National Security Council Secretariat concerning secret assessments of India’s security situation in the states of Assam, Manipur, Nagaland and Tripura, as well as concerning the Naxalites and Maoists,” two opposition groups.

Other documents included personal information about a member of the Indian Directorate General of Military Intelligence.

The researchers also found evidence that Indian Embassy computers in Kabul, Moscow and Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and at the High Commission of India in Abuja, Nigeria had been compromised.

Also compromised were computers used by the Indian Military Engineer Services in Bengdubi, Calcutta, Bangalore and Jalandhar; the 21 Mountain Artillery Brigade in Assam and three air force bases. Computers at two Indian military colleges were also taken over by the spy ring.

Where is India's vaunted IT power?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 06 Apr 2010 09:08

China offer on free-trade talks with India

China has offered to accelerate free trade agreement talks with India in a bid to balance a burgeoning trade relationship between two of Asia’s largest economies that is heavily skewed in Beijing’s favour.

Chinese officials expect trade between the two to rise to $60bn (€44.5bn, £39.5bn) this year, as the world’s two fast-growing large economies recover from the global financial crisis. Yet Indian officials describe a trade deficit that last year was about $16bn in Beijing’s favour as “politically unsustainable”, and identify it as a point of friction in a relationship key to Asia’s peace and stability.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26608e22-3e4a ... abdc0.html

Leonard · Post by **Leonard** » 06 Apr 2010 09:48

The IT breach is MASSIVE ... WTF is GOI doing ... The Chini's are singing lullabies for MMS ...

The report notes that documents the researchers recovered were found with “Secret,” “Restricted” and “Confidential” notices. “These documents,” the report says, “contain sensitive information taken from a member of the National Security Council Secretariat concerning secret assessments of India’s security situation in the states of Assam, Manipur, Nagaland and Tripura, as well as concerning the Naxalites and Maoists,” two opposition groups.

Other documents included personal information about a member of the Indian Directorate General of Military Intelligence.

The researchers also found evidence that Indian Embassy computers in Kabul, Moscow and Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and at the High Commission of India in Abuja, Nigeria had been compromised.

Also compromised were computers used by the Indian Military Engineer Services in Bengdubi, Calcutta, Bangalore and Jalandhar; the 21 Mountain Artillery Brigade in Assam and three air force bases. Computers at two Indian military colleges were also taken over by the spy ring.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2010 10:34

Behind China's India policy, a growing debate
Excerpts

Earlier this year, the United States' decision to approve a $ 6.4-billion arms sale to Taiwan sparked a series of agitated commentaries in China's military journals. The tone will sound somewhat familiar to an Indian audience: it reflected a growing anxiety among strategists that the U.S. was building a “crescent-shaped ring” to encircle and contain China. Interestingly, much of the debate focussed on what role India would — or would not — play in a supposed U.S.-led “encirclement.” Some strategists expressed concern that an eventual “integration of India” into an American alliance “would profoundly affect China's security,” as the official China Daily reported. Dai Xu, an Air Force Colonel of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), warned that China needed to be vigilant against this growing network running “from Japan to India” that would suffocate China.

Others, however, were not so convinced, and instead sought to calm the tensions. Pei Yuanying, former Chinese Ambassador to India, said India, as “an independent international power in the international arena,” was “unlikely to be part of any such U.S. scheme.” Shen Dingli, one of the leading voices in the strategic community in Beijing, also disagreed with Dai's views in an interview with The Hindu, suggesting that the current relationship was sound enough for China to have no reason to worry about India's ties with the U.S.

In recent months, articles in influential publications like the People's Daily, have taken a noticeably harder line on India, accusing New Delhi of “arrogance” and calling on China to take a stronger position on the border dispute. The People's Daily, in particular, has also begun to devote extensive coverage to India's military build-up, frequently speaking of an “India threat.”

The articles more or less reflected the “PLA view” of Sino-Indian ties, according to Srikanth Kondapalli, a professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University who studies the Chinese military. According to him and other analysts, this view is predicated on three basic policy positions on India. The first assumes that India is seeking to become a great power. The policy response is to support Pakistan, which China continues to do, and confine India's influence to South Asia. The second, he says, assumes that India has “hegemonic ambitions in South Asia” — a phrase often used by the People's Daily last year. The policy response in China is to “oppose hegemony” by supporting smaller states in South Asia, like Nepal and Bangladesh. The third is on India's presence in the Indian Ocean, and the policy response is to strengthen China's naval capabilities.

Much as the PLA is influential, its view by no means reflects a consensus opinion among the highest policymakers. Besides the PLA, there are at least three groups which have a role in shaping China's India policy, including commercial lobbies, retired officials and a select group of India scholars in official think tanks. This section tends to view the relationship beyond the narrow military paradigm of the PLA. It argues that despite the persisting mistrust between the countries, it is in China's own interest, both from the point of view of sustaining its economic development and its standing as a responsible world power, to have harmonious relations with India and a peaceful periphery.

“Many people in the Chinese government realise that despite historical differences, there are growing commonalities in relations between the two countries and their positions on international issues,” says Ma Jiali, a leading South Asia scholar at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), who advises the government on its India policy. “There is also the common goal that both countries do not want to see a unipolar world.” He considers “four roles” India plays in shaping his policy view — “a close neighbour, a developing country with common goals, a rising power and an increasingly important international player.” “The basic fact is,” he continues, “we must have good relations with India, or our national interest will be damaged.”

His view is echoed by Sun Shihai, another influential ‘India hand' at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. He says he “completely disagrees” with the policy views voiced by the nationalistic commentaries in much of the official media last year. “Many of those reports misperceived India very deeply,” says Professor Sun. “Among most scholars at least, there is a growing awareness that India's power is rising, its international status is rising, and these facts are a reality that cannot be altered.

Chinese foreign policy is ultimately decided at the highest levels of the ruling Communist Party's Central Committee using these various inputs. But how these inputs get used is “an extremely complicated process,” says Prof. Kondapalli. “Various groups put out their agenda to try and have their opinions heard, but what is eventually decided depends on who has greater influence at a given moment in time.” For now though, the outcome of this debate still seems uncertain. “The academic community appears to follow a soft and co-operative line while the PLA maintains its stridency to keep India on tenterhooks,” says Brigadier (retd.) Arun Sahgal of the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi.

“The main problem in understanding China's policies is the lack of transparency, which often leads to misperceptions” Prof. Kondapalli says. Consequently, even extreme opinions, from any media outlet, often tend to be regarded as Beijing's official line, and drown out other views even if they are no more than voices in an ongoing debate. {Let us not kid ourselves here that Beijing's official lines with India are not problematic. Asking ADB not to lend money for projects in Arunachal, objecting to the PM's visit to Tawang, continuing to recklessly arm Pakistan, poking into Kashmir affairs by issuing stapled visas etc. are not markers of exactly friendly disposition} And until China becomes more transparent, analysts say, external observers will likely continue to imagine {No, we don't need to magine anything. Chinese deeds speak for themselves} the worst when reading the tea leaves.

Kavu · Post by **Kavu** » 06 Apr 2010 11:14

Interestingly, much of the debate focussed on what role India would — or would not — play in a supposed U.S.-led “encirclement.”

Pei Yuanying, former Chinese Ambassador to India, said India, as “an independent international power in the international arena,” was “unlikely to be part of any such U.S. scheme.” Shen Dingli, one of the leading voices in the strategic community in Beijing, also disagreed with Dai's views in an interview with The Hindu,

The above is Taaqiya, and The Hindu is the traitor. The Hindu is trying to play down the Chinese threat, which going by the past, Nukes to Pakistan, Burma is certainly not the case. China is a threat and a very serious threat at that. But even in BR, By the time the Chinese thread reaches 20 pages, the useless Pakistani thread would have crosed 60 pages atleast two times!! A very unfortunate scenario in BR.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 06 Apr 2010 12:05

Big breakthrough unlikely in Sino-India ties

Singapore: India and China begin crucial bilateral talks on Tuesday and Beijing's support to Pakistan is in for some scrutiny. Experts say that if China does not budge on the issue of issuing stapled visas to Kashmiris, India too should take a tough stand.

But Chinese analysts are warning India not to expect any major breakthrough on the issue of stapled visas for Kashmiris as External Affairs Minister SM Krishna begins two days of talks with Chinese leaders in Beijing.

"I don't think China is going to compromise on this because if it does it will send very wrong signal to the Pakistanis and will be a signal that China is changing its position on the issue of Kashmir," says Dr Li Ming Jiang, assistant professor at the S Rajaratnam School of International Studies at Nanyang Technological University.

Dr Li a former diplomatic correspondent for China's Xinhua news agency. He told CNN-IBN in Singapore that stapled visas underscores Beijing's view that Kashmir is disputed and gives it leverage in border talks with India. He also accused India of colluding with the US.

"Indian leaders have asked the US to check the influence of China. Chinese interpret such actions as containment of China. Specifically they are worried about the Indo-US nuclear deal. But China is still watching if the Indo-US alliance intensifies. If it does then Chinese will come with counter-measures," says Dr Li.

But India is not without cards to play in this game.

"If China is going to be so difficult on this issue needlessly and provocatively, then India needs to think of a suitable means of retaliation. Perhaps India should deal differently with the Tibetan community and allow them more leeway," says South Asia analyst Sumit Ganguly.

So as Krishna meets Chinese leaders to commemorate 60 years of ties another irritant has been added to the already suspicious relationship. It will be interesting to see how India responds if China refuses to budge.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/big-breakthr ... ml?from=tn

the response is very very obvious to me atleast. Just don't accept those visas and deport those who arrive with such visas . Why on earth does India accept these and streangthen the Chinese position. We don't need to use the tibetian card, just need to reject stapled visas outright. Why is this so difficult.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2010 12:28

Kavu wrote:But even in BR, By the time the Chinese thread reaches 20 pages, the useless Pakistani thread would have crosed 60 pages atleast two times!! A very unfortunate scenario in BR.

The reason is that there is a lot more information available about Pakistan through English, Urdu, Sindhi & Punjabi, all languages which many Indians understand. We have societal, linguistic and ethnic connections with Pakistan as we were together for millennia. We do understand them and interpret them more easily. All these are not the cases with China.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 06 Apr 2010 12:45

Don't see why the Tibetans have to be dragged into the stapled visa issue. Better to just start issuing separate travel documents to all PRC visitors. Take ten fingerprints and issue them one of those fancy new smartcards that are cropping up everywhere. Only ROC citizens should get visas stamped on their passports as there is no dispute regarding Taiwan.

Kavu · Post by **Kavu** » 06 Apr 2010 13:20

SSridhar wrote: The reason is that there is a lot more information available about Pakistan through English, Urdu, Sindhi & Punjabi, all languages which many Indians understand. We have societal, linguistic and ethnic connections with Pakistan as we were together for millennia. We do understand them and interpret them more easily. All these are not the cases with China.

Not completely true, India-Pak Hyphenation is also a reality in our psyche, not only with US. We do feel far more hatred to Paks, than to Chinese. Which in my opinion is justified to some extent but stupid at the same time. There are a lot of China centric english news and information coming out today than ever before. But we have to de-hyphenate ourselves first. I do wish more members contribute and analyse in this thread than in the Pakistani and Bakistani threads!

Kavu · Post by **Kavu** » 06 Apr 2010 13:22

vera_k wrote:Don't see why the Tibetans have to be dragged into the stapled visa issue. Better to just start issuing separate travel documents to all PRC visitors. Take ten fingerprints and issue them one of those fancy new smartcards that are cropping up everywhere. Only ROC citizens should get visas stamped on their passports as there is no dispute regarding Taiwan.

Why not, But more so Tibet is the real soft underbelly of China. ROC and Commie China will unite at one point of time.
There is no dragging of Tibetians, they want to be dragged in, they want to be made an issue off. We have covered their mouths enough!

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 06 Apr 2010 13:26

Leonard wrote:The IT breach is MASSIVE ... WTF is GOI doing ... The Chini's are singing lullabies for MMS ...

I know this fact since last one year and I posted this information back then that not only Indian embassy, Indian Army's Net Centric capabilities in Border areas are also under continuous attack from Chinese and Pakis. I hope IA hires professional hackers and reply to it.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 06 Apr 2010 15:31

Why doesn't US break up China as it did with Soviet Union ? Do the commies rule with US blessings as long as they keep the US MNCs happy? To keep the junta happy , a few public postures here and there by the commies ....
Will US bring down the commies in China if they don't oblige to DC ?Will the oppressed Chinese people ever get to see the light of freedom in their own country ? Will India help the Chinese people against the commie oppression?
Enlightened ones, please share some light ...

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Apr 2010 16:58

Water woes in China.
http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2010/04/05/wa ... -in-china/

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Apr 2010 17:22

A_Gupta wrote:When will India be a cyber-security superpower?

TORONTO — Turning the tables on a China-based computer espionage gang, Canadian and United States computer security researchers have monitored a spying operation for the past eight months, observing while the intruders pilfered classified and restricted documents from the highest levels of the Indian Defense Ministry. {Snipped} ................

As recently as early March, the Indian communications minister, Sachin Pilot, told reporters that government networks had been attacked by China, but that “not one attempt has been successful.” But on March 24, the Toronto researchers said, they contacted intelligence officials in India and told them of the spy ring they had been tracking. They requested and were given instructions on how to dispose of the classified and restricted documents.

On Monday, Sitanshu Kar, a spokesman for the Indian Defense Ministry, said officials were “looking into” the report, but had no official statement. {Snipped} ..............

New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/science/06cyber.html

India Today’s Sandeep Unnithan interviews Greg Walton on P.R. China’s cyber espionage targeting India:

China's cyber espionage - tip of a very large iceberg: Investigator

Sandeep Unnithan
New Delhi, April 6, 2010

Associate Editor Sandeep Unnithan spoke to Greg Walton, one of the Information Warfare Monitor investigators who put together the 'Shadows in the Cloud', a 10-month investigation detailing China's espionage directed against Indian govt computers. ………………..

India Today

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Apr 2010 17:25

More on the cyber espionage unleashed by P.R. China on India from Canadian Newspaper The Globe and Mail:

Spies reach deep into India's defence

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Apr 2010 19:24

The full text of the report titled Shadows in the Cloud: An Investigation into Cyber Espionage 2.0” detailing among others P.R. China’s cyber espionage of Indian targets both inside and outside India is available at the below link.

The number of times India crops as the victim of a pilfered file makes for depressing reading:

Shadows in the Cloud: An Investigation into Cyber Espionage 2.0

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Apr 2010 00:45

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/science/06cyber.html

Researchers Trace Data Theft to Intruders in China
Close LinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalink TORONTO — Turning the tables on a China-based computer espionage gang, Canadian and United States computer security researchers have monitored a spying operation for the past ight months, observing while the intruders pilfered classified and restricted documents from the highest levels of the Indian Defense Ministry. n a report issued Monday night, the researchers, based at the Munk School of Global Affairs at the University of Toronto, provide a detailed account of how a spy operation it called the Shadow Network systematically hacked into personal computers in government offices on several continents. The Toronto spy hunters not only learned what kinds of material had been stolen, but were able to see some of the documents, including classified assessments about security in several Indian states, and confidential embassy documents about India’s relationships in West Africa, Russia and the Middle East. The intruders breached the systems of independent analysts, taking reports on several Indian missile systems. They also obtained a year’s worth of the Dalai Lama’s personal e-mail messages. The intruders even stole documents related to the travel of NATO forces in Afghanistan, illustrating that even though the Indian government was the primary target of the attacks, one chink in computer security can leave many nations exposed.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Apr 2010 01:09

Is it not interesting that on the time of the visit of Indian President to PRC there is big news on Cyber attack and also massive naxalite attack on India.
How much is Uncle behind this synchronized events.

arun wrote:P.R. China’s message to India on the 60th Anniversary of the establishing of Sino-Indian Diplomatic Relations.

Panchashila seems out. It’s now Dasashila:

Message from Chinese President Hu Jintao to Indian PresidentPratibha Devisingh Patil on 60th Anniversary of Diplomatic Relations

2010/04/01

On the occasion of the 60th anniversary of diplomatic ties between the People's Republic of China and the Republic of India, I wish to extend, on behalf of the Chinese people, warm congratulations and best wishes to you, and through you to your government and people.

arun wrote:More on the cyber espionage unleashed by P.R. China on India from Canadian Newspaper The Globe and Mail:

Spies reach deep into India's defence

How can Naxalite over react unless they were told to.

Hari Seldon wrote:Nitin Pai argues that The Naxalites overreached

Over the last five years Naxalites have violently expanded ... yet, the violence in any given place and time has been below a certain threshold.
... including efforts by their sympathisers to romanticise their violenc...
This allowed Naxalites to get away with murder. A lot of times. In a lot of places. Literally.
But killing 73 out of 80 (or 120) CRPF and police personnel in a short span of time in a single battle is no longer subliminal violence. In all likelihood the Naxalites have crossed a threshold...
...
There’s a chance that India’s psychological threshold is even higher. But it is more likely that the Naxalites have overreached.

Chinmayanand wrote:Why doesn't US break up China as it did with Soviet Union ? Do the commies rule with US blessings as long as they keep the US MNCs happy? To keep the junta happy , a few public postures here and there by the commies ....
Will US bring down the commies in China if they don't oblige to DC ?Will the oppressed Chinese people ever get to see the light of freedom in their own country ? Will India help the Chinese people against the commie oppression?
Enlightened ones, please share some light ...

US has invested heavily in China for the last several decades on trade and global control of economy.
This is a good book to understand this alliance
Superfusion: How China and America Became One Economy and Why the World's Prosperity Depends on It
~ Zachary Karabell (Author)

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 07 Apr 2010 22:58

Just say Madam Nirupama Rao on TV talking about China.

She said that we have raised the issue of Visas being issued on slips to Kashmir born Indian Nationals.

Does Madam or Babus in the Ministry know that Kashmir born Indian Nationals are not being issues Visas altogether. I am amazed at the ignorance of the Foreign Ministry and their lack of knowledge as to the reality on ground. And just to add a point, China does not issue visas to Arunachal Pradesh born Indians and now doing the same for Indian Kashmiris. Go figure.

And these people run our foreign policy. Pathetic to say the least.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Apr 2010 23:03

Kavu wrote:What stops India from issuing visa's to Chinese citizens from Tibet region on a piece of paper, other than balls ofcourse; which we dont have as is evident, along with long term planning.

Not just tibet also xingxiang. Plus elevate relationship with taiwan.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Apr 2010 23:18

China-Based Hackers May Have Used Twitter, Google to Attack Dalai Lama, UN

http://mashable.com/2010/04/07/cyber-crime-spies/
A group of researchers has linked a huge, China-based cyber espionage ring to the theft of thousands of documents — including classified information, visa applications, and personal identities — from “politically sensitive targets” around the world.

The command-and-control infrastructure of this so-called Shadow Network used platforms such as Twitter, Google Groups, Blogspot, Baidu Blogs, blog.com and Yahoo Mail to maintain persistent control of infected computers. They also used Tor, a system designed to grant online anonymity to political protesters, crime victims, journalists and others. The network then attacked targets ranging from the offices of the Dalai Lama to the United Nations as well as Indian and Pakistani government officials. Not all of the attacked organizations can be positively identified, but researchers are confident that India was the primary target.

This graphic shows the relationship of social sites (red), web domains (blue) and servers (green) in the hackers’ network:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29435784/SHAD ... ionage-2-0

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 08 Apr 2010 07:47

Somehow I get the feeling that the Indian side is going gaga over the FM's trip to China but the Chinese side seems to be quiet as usual.

For example FS saying that we complained and the Chinese listened attentively is hardly inspiring.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/apr/ ... -india.htm

We do not accept the stapled visas on the passports of residents from Jammu and Kashmir. Our position in this regard was again made clear during the talks. They (the Chinese side) listened attentively what we said. We underlined the need for more sensitivity to be shown to Indian concerns in this regard. This is a subject of ongoing discussion with China. That is where it stands at the moment," she said.

The only thing they got was a hotline which can be used when things get a little hot. Apart from that I cannot see what India is getting or expecting to get.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Apr 2010 12:25

CIA's role in China's one-child policy

http://www.lifesitenews.com/waronfamily ... ssm200.pdf

National Security Study Memorandum
NSSM 200
Implications of Worldwide Population Growth
For U.S. Security and Overseas Interests
(THE KISSINGER REPORT)
December 10, 1974

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 08 Apr 2010 12:29

From Orbat.com-

India approves two more divisions The first two are raised and are in Eastern Command, though of course it will take two years at least for them to shake down. Now the Indian press reports that two more divisions have been approved, starting with a divisional HQ, some division troops and a brigade each, and then built up. These two will go to Ladakh. The Army has requested even more divisions.
At this point, we'd like both China to take a deep breath and figure out what it has gained by belligerence.
India previously had ten divisions dedicated to the China front, though at least two more could be quickly inducted.
Now India has not only added four new divisions, a strike corps has been reoriented to counter any China thrust tthrough Nepal. Which is a polite way of saying India now has an option to attack south Tibet through Nepal. That makes a 40% increase in dedicated forces, and a doubling of contingency forces. India can now deploy 18 divisions against Tibet.
The Chinese had been able to reduce their strength in Northwest Tibet to almost nothing, except for border troops. They will now face the prospect of having to either increase substantially their NW Tibet deployments, or stage a counteroffensive against Northeast India to balance territory lost in the Northwest.
But wait - as the Count says, there's more. Since the first two divisions have gone to the Northeast, China would face 9 and not seven divisions without Eastern Command calling for reinforcements.
Further, by 2015 India is likely to at least three more divisions against China.
Does China really need this additional grief? India had, in fact, keeled over to think of England in Winter, vis-a-vis the China border. The Chinese offered permanent peace, India accepted, and for 15 years ignored the northern border. But the Chinese couldn't just let things be. They pushed and pushed and pushed India.
The Indians will say, in their usual passive-defensive way: "Don't blame us, you made us do it," and for once Editor has to agree. The Indians are not at fault, the Chinese are.
BTW, India spends 2% of its $1.5-trillion GDP on defense. It has plenty of room to spend even more, both as a percentage and in absolute terms as its economy grows.
Isn't $1.5-trillion way off the official figure of $1.2-trillion? Well, here's the odd thing. India has been using NNI in place of GDP, and for every country NNI is less than GDP. Since everyone now uses GDP, we should for India too.
Also BTW, readers should realize even $1.5-trillion way understates India's actual economy, a huge part of which escapes count because it evades taxes. People have correctly pointed out that that's the case in China too. But compared to India, China is very tightly governed. Whatever part of the Chinese economy escapes being counted, as a percentage of GDP it has to be much smaller than for India.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Apr 2010 00:04

India toughens up as China's footprint grows

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Apr 2010 20:13

Hari Seldon wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Kavu, you answered your own question.
Actually, its that India has formally and completely accepted Tibet as a part of China, period. This was during ABV's time, IIRC. PRC for its part has never quite unambiguously said areas A,B or C are part of India.

I am not sure if India has ever issued any formal recognition of Tibet AR as part of China. Right from the time of Nehru till date some sort of ambivalence has been maintained. This is so because Tibetans have a claim to larger territory which includes parts of what is Indian territory. Chinese claims to these territory stems partly from this fact.

However there is nothing which prevents India from raising tibetan issue , although India considered tibet as autonomous but not sovereign . The problem between Indo _China border is primarily Indo Tibetan border problem and issue of tibet status could easily be raised to counter chinese moves. But it would have certain repercussions which India needs to take into account.
China is always apprehensive about ITBP and SFF.Tibetan Govt in exile functions from Dharmashala. This by itself is like keeping the issue alive.

India’s Tibet policy Need for a change by Rajiv Sikri
India needs to take a leaf out of China’s book in the matter of observance of solemn bilateral commitments. Just as China, contrary to the agreements with India in 2003 and 2005, has re-opened very aggressively its claim to Arunachal Pradesh, has still not fully accepted Sikkim as a part of India, and does not want an early settlement of the boundary question, India too should subtly reopen the whole question of the legitimacy of China’s claim to Tibet, which is the basic foundation for China to make any territorial claim on India. There could be many ways in which India could introduce some nuances in its traditional policy. For example, India could state that it considers Tibet, as an autonomous region, to be a part of the territory of the People’s Republic of China – the implication being that it is only if Tibet is a truly autonomous region that India recognizes it as a part of China.

But to take matter further one needs to understand how chinese would respond if India is to say Tibet is independent and India would discuss all border problems once legitimate govt in independent tibet comes to power since British India was party to Simla Convention 1914. After all Tibet was not under control of China during 1914-1951 . Most of the countries do not recognise Chinese control over Tibet. Why India should oblige . Perhaps others could enlighten us.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 11 Apr 2010 07:14

India Says Chinese Anti Satellite Program A Global Threat

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 11 Apr 2010 07:26

While its good that India is voicing its concerns with chinese ASAT, a far more important priority should be developing India's own ASAT. Irrespective of our or world's concern both the Americans and the Chinese have conducted ASAT test. Even while overtly India should expresses displeasure about Chinese ASAT, on the back side it should prepare for its own ASAT test. If it is just

without any corresponding test, then it wont change anything.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Apr 2010 07:33

If India were surreptiously preparing its own ASAT program, then the right course of action till it gets ready is to moan, whine and bltch loudly what a global menace ASAT programs generally are etc. (Check one for Yindia).

And once the ASAT program is ready, we should invent some burning satellites threat about to hit some poor lakshadweep island sob-story and multiple-test the ASAT weapon onlee, a la Yamrika. (Check two will happen, inshallah).

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Apr 2010 16:00

China wants 'all-weather', 'taller-than-tallest' and 'deeper-than-deepest' friendship with India too

Advocating closer Sino-India ties on lines of China's relations with Pakistan, a leading state-run newspaper today said an 'Asia century' will remain only a dream until the two giants treat each other with mutual trust and respect.

China wants to build close ties with India like that of its "all weather friendship" with Pakistan and if Beijing could become "mutual friend of the Asian rivals" it could contribute more to regional peace and stability, the China Daily said in a commentary.

"India has always harboured a grudge over China's all-weather friendship with Pakistan. The China-Pakistan relationship is based on mutual trust and mutual support in nation building and international cooperation," it said.

It said to maintain a peaceful external environment, China also wants to build closer ties with India.

"If China could become a mutual friend to the two Asian rivals, it will contribute more to regional peace and stability. This will eventually serve India's interests as well," it said.

The paper said India needs to show "real sincerity" in forging a more friendly relationship with China.

"An Asia century will remain only a dream until the two Asian giants can treat each other with mutual trust and respect," it said.

The article appeared just days after External Affairs Minister S M Krishna's visit to Beijing.

The article titled "Gnawing issues in China-India relations," also highlighted the growing economic exchange between the two countries, pointing out that the first two months of the year saw a 55 per cent increase in bilateral trade as compared to 2009.

This year also marks the 60th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic ties between India and China.

"All this seems to show that the relationship between the world's two most populous countries is faring well and will grow even stronger. Behind this promising picture, however, a few gnawing issues are still standing in the way between the two titans," it said.

"If not handled properly, the road ahead for them would not be as smooth as expected," it said referring to the unresolved boundary dispute across the 2,000 km border.

"Many confrontations between countries have been ignited by disputes in their border area. The two sides should quicken their steps on demarcation consultations that began in the 1980s," it said.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 11 Apr 2010 16:59

Yet another back-stabbing program awaiting on the screens?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 13 Apr 2010 08:54

" Chinese Hymen "

The Unlikely Chinese Product that could Start a Trade War

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Apr 2010 22:27

Hindi Chini Bahi Bhai .... Any takers...

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Apr 2010 01:51

No wonder Americans look at Pakistan as one nation.

The Myth of One China
To understand the contradictions and internal conflicts of Asia's rising superpower, you have to understand its incredible diversity.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... _one_china

BY JEFFREY WASSERSTROM | APRIL 13, 2010

The most deeply rooted and persistent misconception Americans have about China is their too-limited appreciation of China's diversity. This leads to a view that China is populated by people who are all pretty much alike or, at least, can be neatly divided into one large group and a small number of people who stand apart. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The mistaken view of China as a homogeneous land goes back hundreds of years. Between Marco Polo's day and World War II, Western audiences were exposed to books and visual materials that presented China as a land of menacing hordes of faceless and essentially interchangeable people, all of whom were hostile to foreigners. Generations of Europeans and Americans were also periodically influenced by a more positive variant of this motif, brought to cinematic glory via the film The Good Earth, in which the country was portrayed as composed of village after village of poor yet hardworking (but largely indistinguishable) families.

U.S. notions of Chinese homogeneity gained a new lease on life during the first decades of the Cold War. This was a time when many World War II images of Japan, as a militaristic land in which everyone conformed to the wishes of the madmen in charge, were simply transposed to China, while the Japanese, now allies of the United States, were envisioned as diverse and peaceful. Thanks to the way the Western press covered the Korean War and then the Cultural Revolution, the word "China" began to conjure in many Western minds a picture of look-alike men and women who all wore blue "Mao suits" and followed Communist Party dictates without question. This vision of Chinese conformity, rooted in part in efforts by the government in Beijing to create a country where everyone had much in common, but given a decidedly negative spin internationally, showed through in book titles such as Mao Tse-tung: Emperor of the Blue Ants.

One reason that Americans tend to overlook the degree of diversity within China is that ethnicity and race loom so large in U.S. discussions of heterogeneity and homogeneity. And China, it is said, is 90 percent Han. But this widely cited number is a misleading indicator of diversity.

It's true that China can accurately be described as somewhat less heterogeneous than other large countries. It has neither the dizzying religious diversity of India nor the complex linguistic variation of Indonesia, and it does not have as many inhabitants whose parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents were born in distant lands, as the United States does. But there is a world of difference between saying China is somewhat less diverse in specific ways than other countries and suggesting that its people are mostly basically the same. And even when it comes to ethnicity, there turns out to be much that is misleading about even the assumption of relative homogeneity.

In addition to ideas about China that have roots stretching back much further, some U.S. misconceptions about China can be tied to a tendency to think of all countries run by Communist Party regimes as "Big Brother" states. When the Soviet Union existed, it was thought to be the place where the imaginary world of George Orwell's 1984 had come to life. And since the Soviet Union's fall, China has often been cast in that same role.

There are times when China does indeed seem Orwellian, but this Cold War vision obscures that it can sometimes be more useful to look to a competing work of dystopian fiction: Brave New World, the classic 1932 novel by English writer Aldous Huxley. 1984 and Brave New World often show up together on reading lists, and each is set in a future world where individual freedoms are greatly limited. They present contrasting visions of authoritarianism, however, because Orwell, who studied with Huxley at Eton before writing 1984, emphasizes the role of fear in keeping people in line, while Huxley pays more attention to how needs and desires are created, manipulated, and satisfied.

In an intriguing bit of timing, soon after reading 1984 Huxley wrote a letter about the book to one of his former students in October 1949, the same month the People's Republic of China was founded. Huxley said he was impressed by the novel, but thought that ruling oligarchs of the future would eschew the "boot on the face" style of control showcased in 1984.

If the ghosts of the two authors were looking down on Tibet in March 2009 or Xinjiang last summer, Orwell might say that his vision of the future had been shown to apply best to China because in each setting an outburst of popular discontent was met with a "boot on the face" response involving a show of force by the state designed to strike fear into the local populace.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 14 Apr 2010 05:58

Well, even Bakis are going to feel ashamed of this....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100411/ap_ ... c_cheating

When professors in China need to author research papers to get promoted, many turn to people like Lu Keqian.

Working on his laptop in a cramped spare bedroom, the former schoolteacher ghostwrites for professors, students, government offices — anyone willing to pay his fee, typically about 300 yuan ($45).

"Academic fraud, misconduct and ethical violations are very common in China," said professor Rao Yi, dean of the life sciences school at Peking University in the capital. "It is a big problem."

The Israeli professor has been teaching for nine years at Heilongjiang University in the northeastern city of Harbin. A colleague approached him in 2008 for a paper he wrote about the kidnapping and murder of a Jewish musician in Harbin in 1933 during the Japanese occupation.

"He had the audacity to present it as his own paper at a conference that I organized," Ben-Canaan said. "Without any shame!"