Artillery Discussion Thread

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2010 07:56

many arty guys have knee probs rather than back probs from carrying the arty (at least the few I have met)

yeah the T series has only a shell to load but this one has a charge and shell

but you are right - the concept is good

just need some support jacks and reliability in dust, sand,ice and rain

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2010 08:48

would love the dOnar on a tatra vehicle with jack - essentially a better version of the DANA

if only the Eastern guns had better ranges

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 16 Mar 2010 00:30

Cross posting from Indian Military Aviation thread...

Ashish J wrote:Army turns to HAL for 20 Cheetals in bid to plug chopper gap

http://www.livemint.com/2010/03/1521342 ... Cheet.html

Last week, during Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s visit to New Delhi, India agreed to buy 42 additional Sukhoi 30 MkI fighters. This is to fill gaps and beef up capacity of the Indian Air Force’s fighter squadrons. The air force is operating at least six squadrons below its sanctioned strength of 39.5 squadrons of 18 planes each.

Recently, India opted to buy 145 lightweight towed howitzer guns from BAE Systems Plc. after it had to scrap an earlier tender, in which the front runner Singapore Technologies Engineering Ltd was blacklisted on charges of corruption.

When planned procurement processes get delayed and are “fast-tracked through ad-hoc purchases, it also means the model of open competition is also suffering,” said Ratan Shrivastava, director for aerospace and defence at researcher Frost and Sullivan. “You go in for whatever is available, which may not be an optimum solution.”

Any Idea if this is true news and not DDM...

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 20 Mar 2010 06:26

2 Decades After Bofors, India Set for Artillery Purchases

Remaining without a single purchase of artillery guns since Bofors scandal broke out two decades ago, India has lined up a series of procurements of such weapons to bridge the growing gap in the operational preparedness of its Army.

Among the guns it plans to buy soon include towed, wheeled self-propelled, tracked self-propelled and ultra light howitzers.
...................

While it has scheduled trials for two such weapons in the coming months, the Defence Ministry has ramped up its bid to procure 145 ultra light howitzers for deploying in mountainous terrains from the US.
.................
he Defence Ministry had issued a global tender to 10 firms for the 155mm/39 calibre ultra light guns, but only ST Kinetics had responded with an offer.

Simultaneously, the US too came forward with a proposal to supply BAE's M777A2 guns to India and the process of procurement is in its final stages.

Sources said apart from the ultra light howitzers, the trails for the wheeled self-propelled guns would commence next month in which Slovakian firm Konstrukta and German company Rhienmetall would compete for the supply of 180 guns to India.

India had issued a global tender for the 155mm/52 calibre wheeled self-propelled guns and only the Slovakian and German firms were shortlisted out of the five which received the tenders.

Another trial for the 155mm/52calibre towed guns in which ST Kinetics and United Kingdom's BAE Systems would compete is to take place in a couple of months, after the Singapore firm sought time to bring its guns for the test following damage to the one it was bringing to India during loading.

Under the global tender issued for the towed guns, India had projected that it would buy 400 of them off-the-self from the selected firm and another 780 would be manufactured in India through technology transfer to one of the Ordnance Factories.

The fourth procurement would be the 155mm/52 calibre tracked self-propelled guns for which the Army has projected a requirement of 100 units.

The purchase of these tracked guns would be done through a global tender, which is currently under formulation of technical parameters, Defence Ministry sources added.
......................

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 20 Mar 2010 07:06

The critical issue is the Starter's Gun.

This Ready, Steady has been going on for a long time.

The word Go is what one wants to hear!

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Mar 2010 11:49

RayC wrote:The critical issue is the Starter's Gun.

This Ready, Steady has been going on for a long time.

The word Go is what one wants to hear!

emaining without a single purchase of artillery guns since Bofors scandal broke out two decades ago, India has lined up a series of procurements of such weapons to bridge the growing gap in the operational preparedness of its Army.

Absolutely....have lost count of the number of times i have read the above quoted line since 2000?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Mar 2010 12:12

sum wrote:Absolutely....have lost count of the number of times i have read the above quoted line since 2000?

The problem is the Bofors scandal has affected the Indian Politician Pysche in a big way than any other arms deal scandal . Any Govt of the day will think that any Bofors replacement will automatically translate into a big scandal and has been delaying the decision.

The only way out is to let DRDO through a TOT agreement/co-development route develop a local 155/52 cal gun to replace Bofors.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 20 Mar 2010 23:21

^^^ Or ask uncle sam and get it through the fast track procurement... Which seems to be the most prefered route for this administration...

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 21 Mar 2010 00:26

i am still baffled at our inability to produce a gun like bofors domestically. lots of small countries have gun production. we could bought some tech by now and built on it.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 21 Mar 2010 01:07

The problem is the Bofors scandal has affected the Indian Politician Pysche in a big way than any other arms deal scandal . Any Govt of the day will think that any Bofors replacement will automatically translate into a big scandal and has been delaying the decision.

The only way out is to let DRDO through a TOT agreement/co-development route develop a local 155/52 cal gun to replace Bofors.

The problem is that politicians dont want to change,now doing the same things safely is what they have to devise ,but somehow it comes out in open,hence the delay.

For a start we should get the ULH and its ToT ,and that could easily be converted into a wheeled artillery ,.
For a start that would be enough,.
once we get the technology we could customiize it.,.

One question arises,why we didnt reverse engineered bofors ? not even its cannon during kargil

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 23 Mar 2010 14:08

nice to see we'll be testing the German Pzh2000 Wheeled howitzer, it will proabably win the 180 Wheeled self propelled howitzer deal.

The new Borfors will win the Towed howitzer deal while the M-777A2 wins the ultra light gun deal. combine all this with the Bhim howitzer and i think we have a good range of capabilities.

http://baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ ... _fh77.html

http://baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ ... itzer.html

http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/inde ... ng=3&pdb=1

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Mar 2010 14:18

Brahmananda wrote:nice to see we'll be testing the German Pzh2000 Wheeled howitzer, it will proabably win the 180 Wheeled self propelled howitzer deal.....<SNIP>

If in your opinion, PZH 2000 is likely to win the SP Arty contract, what scope is there for Bhim?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Mar 2010 14:22

Brahmananda wrote:nice to see we'll be testing the German Pzh2000 Wheeled howitzer, it will proabably win the 180 Wheeled self propelled howitzer deal.

Pzh2000 is a tracked howitzer not a wheeled one.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Mar 2010 14:36

Yes,its astonishing that India,which was once the world's leader in cannon manufacture,just look at the old cannon in some of our forts,has yet to produce guns of any worth for both army and naval requirements.I think that the main gun on the Arjun has been the max. effort by the DRDO which should've concentrated on this absolutely basic requirement decades ago.If we needed help,we could've entered into a JV with any major manufacturer,especially after Bofors.There is a strong need for a larger naval gun too than the 100mm guns aboard our latest warships,plus ER ammo.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Mar 2010 15:04

The new Borfors will win the Towed howitzer deal while the M-777A2 wins the ultra light gun deal. combine all this with the Bhim howitzer and i think we have a good range of capabilities.

The ULH is fine but on what basis are you saying that Towed deal will be won by Bofors when signs are that there is no deal in sight for another 10+ years atleast?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Mar 2010 22:54

sum wrote:
The new Borfors will win the Towed howitzer deal while the M-777A2 wins the ultra light gun deal. combine all this with the Bhim howitzer and i think we have a good range of capabilities.
The ULH is fine but on what basis are you saying that Towed deal will be won by Bofors when signs are that there is no deal in sight for another 10+ years atleast?

I ask you, is mango SDRE not even allowed his wet dreams...hain ji....

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 23 Mar 2010 23:43

going by the new item, they say the Germans will take part in the tests, the German company only has one 155mm gun and thats the Pzh2000 so whether wheeled or tracked unless they came up with a new gun we dont know of, we'll be testing the pzh2000 (probably a wheeled version?) and it will win because the Slovakian gun below can carry 40 rounds and the pzh2000 can carry 60 and is simply better with all the combined systems on board.

http://www.kotadef.sk/uk_04_04.html

they say the Bae Bofors new version of the FH-77 will be tested along side the ST kinetics in a few months so i dont think they'll wait 10 years to order them. the FH 77 is clearly better than the ST kinetics because the new version of the bofors gun can fire excaliber gps guided munitions with excellent accuracy to over 60km away and its the same gun that goes on board the Swedish Archer system.

Bhim being local will get orders as well, just because we go for other systems doesnt mean we cant have huge numbers of local made stuff right?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 23 Mar 2010 23:49

^^^ Great news.. If we get the Pzh2000 it'll be the best piece of artillery in the Indian sub-continent...
As for bhim, haven't you seen the Arjun saga... we imported over 1000 tanks from russia, but ordered only 124 "local" tanks so far... what does it say about the future prospects of bhim...

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Mar 2010 23:52

^ From what little I could decipher from reports on IA ARTY requirements , IA needs light(M777) , towed and SPH (wheeled as well as tracked) ARTy guns. PZH2000 obviously qualifies under the SPH category . This reminds me of the fact that girls from Mt. Carmel college in bangalaru might get to see their man in shining armor provided PZH2000 is inducted .

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Mar 2010 00:03

negi wrote: This reminds me of the fact that girls from Mt. Carmel college in bangalaru might get to see their man in shining armor provided PZH2000 is inducted .

on a personal basis, nice line in the location field... No disrespect intended...

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Mar 2010 00:26

Bala Vignesh wrote:
negi wrote: This reminds me of the fact that girls from Mt. Carmel college in bangalaru might get to see their man in shining armor provided PZH2000 is inducted .

It has something to do with a promise made by a certain Singha saar on BRF...

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Mar 2010 15:49

nachiket wrote: It has something to do with a promise made by a certain Singha saar on BRF...

Ok... thanks for the info...

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 24 Mar 2010 15:57

Well i certainly hope Bhim can live upto the performance requirements of the Army, the biggest problem for Bhim will be our harsh terrian , if it can prove its worth in our extreme conditons there is no reason why we cant have more of them. Frankly dont know why Arjun isnt being ordered in larger numbers, its certainly better than the T-72 or may be Arjun mk-2 is in the works?

We still have to see comprehensive reports of the trails between t-90 and Arjun and how they both performed. Hopefully Arjun did well enough to deserve more order, i thnk we should just order upto 500 Arjun and in the mean time work on Arjun mk-2 while increasing capacity at the Arjun line. By the way whats the production rate of the home made T-90 and Arjun?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 Mar 2010 17:30

^^ Hop over to the Armoured vehicle thread. You will find all this and more on the Arjun, T-90, T-72 et al.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Mar 2010 02:58

X-posted...

shukla wrote:

Electronics co Aryt progresses in India Army bid

Military electronics and electro-optical equipment manufacturer Aryt Industries Ltd. (TASE: ARYT) and its Indian partner Bharat Electronics Ltd. (BSE: 500049) have passed to the next stage of a large tender for the supply of electronic artillery fuses to the Indian Army.
Bharat has been asked to supply electronic fuses for 105-mm artillery for a firing test by the Indian Army. The tender for the supply of 600,000 electronic fuses for 105-mm artillery is the largest of three tenders for the supply of one million electronic fuses for 105, 130, and 155-mm artillery for a total of $200 million

Last August, Aryt announced that its subsidiary Reshef Technologies Ltd. (99.75% owned by Aryt) had signed a technological cooperation agreement with Bharat Electronics, a military electronics manufacturer. Bharat Electronics is India's second largest defense company, after Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., and has 13,000 employees. Last year, Aryt reported that, as part of a ten-year cooperation agreement with Bharat Electronics, Reshef would help Bharat bid in tenders for artillery fuses of various types, with Bharat financing 20% of the development and production costs.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Mar 2010 02:56

A few links on the Krasnopol

Krasnopol vs Copperhead

JPG of Article in Himalaya trials page one

JP of Himalaya trials page two.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Mar 2010 04:15

going by the new item, they say the Germans will take part in the tests, the German company only has one 155mm gun and thats the Pzh2000 so whether wheeled or tracked unless they came up with a new gun we dont know of, we'll be testing the pzh2000 (probably a wheeled version?) and it will win because the Slovakian gun below can carry 40 rounds and the pzh2000 can carry 60 and is simply better with all the combined systems on board.

Do you care to check facts before posting your opinions on the forum? did you bother to check that PzH 2000 is a tracked SPH and does not have wheeled version? And nor are there any plans for the same? And as for the Slovakian gun, did you consider the fact that it is 45caliber weapon as compared to 52cal PzH 2000? Similarly, Archer (wheeled SPH) is also 52cal as is the FH77B05 (tracked - new version of our Bofors)?

Bhim being local will get orders as well, just because we go for other systems doesnt mean we cant have huge numbers of local made stuff right?

And why will Bhim, the turret is the South African Denel T6, will get order if PzH 2000 is selected? Why will IA have two different systems to do the same job? If Bhim is good and available, might as well get them, right? Why even select PzH 2000?

Well i certainly hope Bhim can live upto the performance requirements of the Army, the biggest problem for Bhim will be our harsh terrian , if it can prove its worth in our extreme conditons there is no reason why we cant have more of them.

Again, why will IA order Bhim if PzH 2000 id selected? And why will Bhim have any more problems than PzH 2000 in Indian conditions? the platform is based on Arjun and South Africa isn't exactly Switzerland when it comes to temprature/dust/hot environment?

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Apr 2010 07:47

X Posted.

BHEL is looking to migrate upward from 76 mm naval guns.

Does anyone know who is being talked to and for what manner of naval gunnery ie: 100 mm or 130 mm?

Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd seeks high-end naval gun ally

Neeraj Thakur / DNA
Friday, April 2, 2010 2:00 IST

New Delhi: State run Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd (Bhel) is expanding its portfolio in the defence sector. Bhel aims to supply higher version of super rapid gun mount (SRGM) naval guns to the ministry of defence.

Total revenue from this order could be in the range of Rs 4,000 crore to Rs 5,000 crore. The company is looking for a technology partner and expects to finalise one in the next 9-12 months.

“The defence ministry has given us the mandate to develop a higher version of SRGM guns. We need the technology for which we will tie up with some foreign player. A lot of players have approached us and we are doing the due diligence,” said B Prasada Rao, chairman and managing director, Bhel.

A senior executive of the company said technology available with European companies looks better than elsewhere in the world.

Therefore, Bhel may strike a deal with a European company, he said.

Bhel is currently using the technology of Oto Melara, an Italian company, to manufacture 76mm SRGM naval guns for the Indian Navy.

DNA

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 05 Apr 2010 12:41

PZH2000 is the only artilley gun made by Rheinmittal, i know its tracked and not wheeled but its still coming for trials and will go against the Slovakian gun and i know its 45 cal and not 52 cal , i am just going by the article that was posted and if they go head to head like it says, PZH2000 will win simpy because its better, now whether tracked or wheeled i dont know and frankly dont care, who does, there is so much confusion on the number and types of deals within the artillery acquisition program.

All i know going by the article is that they are coming for trials. Regarding Bhim, i assume they will atleast think about it because its pictures were in Defexpo2010, they havnt forgetten it and i assume being mostly local it should get some orders. Who cares how many types we operate, our armory is full of different types, from T-72, t-90, Arjun, same for our airforce, so i dont care whether we operate 10 or 100 types, as long as our forces have what they need and can work with. Bhim had problems when it was tested last time and as i far as i can remmber it was harsh condition related, just stating what i remember.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Apr 2010 13:10

PZH2000 is the only artilley gun made by Rheinmittal, i know its tracked and not wheeled but its still coming for trials and will go against the Slovakian gun and i know its 45 cal and not 52 cal , i am just going by the article that was posted and if they go head to head like it says.............<SNIP>

If you knew all the facts, then why did you go by the article? Knowing fully well the level of knowledge that Indian media has about matters military? And again, if you knew and know the facts, why are you saying that PZH2000 will win against the ZUZANA? When one is a tracked and other is a wheeled SPH? You do know that IA has seperate requirement for Tracked and Wheeled SPH?

<SNIP>....Regarding Bhim, i assume they will atleast think about it because its pictures were in Defexpo2010, they havnt forgetten it and i assume being mostly local it should get some orders. Who cares how many types we operate, our armory is full of different types, from T-72, t-90, Arjun, same for our airforce, so i dont care whether we operate 10 or 100 types, as long as our forces have what they need and can work with. Bhim had problems when it was tested last time and as i far as i can remmber it was harsh condition related, just stating what i remember

Do pardon my ignorance, but you do realize that we're here talking about acquisition of Artillery-SP and otherwise, for IA and not about what to order for lunch? So it does matter what you order, why you order and how much you order. The fact that you brin up the example of T-72/T-90/Arjun and IAF inventory shows lack of common sense. Did IA order T-90 and T-72 at the same time and to fill the same role? Did IAF order MiG-27/Jaguar/Mirage-2000/MiG-29 at the same time and to fill the same role?So, why will IA order Bhim and other Tracked SP system together?

And as for Bhim, it was the chosen solution because earlier attempts to mate the turrets (of various type) with T-72 failed. It was trialled and by 1999 found to be all right and recommended for induction. It was to meet our requirement for Tracked SP while IA was to continue to look for Wheeled SP option. The reason it never made it to operational service was due the 'black listing' of Denel.

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 05 Apr 2010 15:46

who cares our acquisiton process is a mess and frankly its no one's headache but the IA's. I said going by the article, i think you can get some parts of the article wrong but some you cant't. There is only one German company that i know of that offers artillery and only one piece they can offer, whether its being tested for wheeled or tracked is another thing. If Zuzana is for wheeled well where is its competitior? i do know IA has a requirement for almost all kind of guns and frankly dont care which ones because they pretty much want to buy almost all kinds so, all i care is PZH is coming and i m just glad it is. i m glad we're getting the m777 and hopefully the Archer or its gun come as well, whether zuzana fits or doesnt, i hope we dont get it, its neither proven and i wouldnt trust Slovakian quality.

Regarding IA inventory why will they still talk about the bhim at Defexpo if atleast the DRDO isnt trying to push it and why shouldnt it order two types of tracked or wheeled guns? whats wrong with that? Our inventory management is a big mess anyways atleast by ordering Bhim we can have some home made growth. The bhim might have failed but so did the arjun, buts the program still exists and improvement have been made, i would expect Bhim tests as wel.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Apr 2010 16:07

who cares our acquisiton process is a mess and frankly its no one's headache but the IA's.

I said going by the article, i think you can get some parts of the article wrong but some you cant't.

But you said, you know all the details. I'm sure you could have used your vast library of knowledge to deduct the correct conclusion.

There is only one German company that i know of that offers artillery and only one piece they can offer, whether its being tested for wheeled or tracked is another thing.

How can it be any another thing if PZH2000 comes only in tracked version?

If Zuzana is for wheeled well where is its competitior?

Your vast knowledge of the subject would have told you that in 1999 or couple of years prior to that, when IA first asked for wheeled SPH, there was again only one competitor and the whole damn exercise was put on hold because of single vendor situation. Can very well happen this time as well unless MOD and MinFin is OK with single vendor situation. And how do you know that only ZUZANA is being trialled for Wheeled SPH cateogory?

Regarding IA inventory why will they still talk about the bhim at Defexpo if atleast the DRDO isnt trying to push it and why shouldnt it order two types of tracked or wheeled guns? whats wrong with that? Our inventory management is a big mess anyways atleast by ordering Bhim we can have some home made growth.

Like I said before, we are not sitting here and discussing what to order for lunch where a dish or two extra is ok.

The bhim might have failed but so did the arjun, buts the program still exists and improvement have been made, i would expect Bhim tests as wel.

And what makes you think Bhim failed? I've written in prior post that it was cleared for induction as early as 1999.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 05 Apr 2010 17:50

Centre okays raising of 2 mountain divisions

(These are in addition to the two that were raised earlier. However:)

With the hike in sanctioned manpower strength, the Army would now have more elbow room to rapidly raise the two divisions and train them in the shortest possible time. Moreover, the Government asked the Army to hasten the process of procuring Howitzer guns aptly suited for mountain warfare.

The Army planned to go in for more than 200 Howitzer guns which can be carried on horse back or in helicopters to the remotest posts in the rugged mountain terrain in Jammu & Kashmir and North-East.

The guns were likely to procured through the foreign military sale (FMS) route from the US, sources said.

Boudhayan · Post by **Boudhayan** » 05 Apr 2010 19:09

ULHs being carried on horse back ?

Can this be done ? I thought they would be too heavy to be carried on Horses. Being carried by Helicopters is possible but horses ???

Can any of the Gurus shed any light on ULHs being carried by Horses ??? Might be I have missed this

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 05 Apr 2010 19:28

dont know which one apart from the Zuzana is being tried for wheeled. but the howitzer tenders is so confusing and i often loose grip on what we gonna get. I certainly hope we get both PZH and BHim ,m-777 and the new bofors guns. Is the Archer coming too? That would be a nice addition. There are so many divisons, btoh holding and strike corps, i dont think it would harm any body if we have a few types, each procured for a specific type of need.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Apr 2010 19:46

I think it refers to 75mm "pack howitzers" not the M777 155mm. would take a super horse breed to carry that piece of kit.

a 75mm seems capable of being taken in 3 parts
http://whmc.umsystem.edu/invent/3026f847.jpg

ofcourse their range, payload and rate are poor compared to a modern 155mm of
any vendor. I guess useful for mortarish roles and direct fire to a few km range.

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Apr 2010 21:13

DDM often uses mortar and howitzers interchangeably , it is the small/medium caliber Mortars which are carried on horse back .

For instance check the following RFI floated by by MOD for modernisation of 81mm mortars (must be the British L16A 81 mm mortar
).

http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/ ... 231209.pdf

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 05 Apr 2010 21:42

negi wrote:DDM often uses mortar and howitzers interchangeably , it is the small/medium caliber Mortars which are carried on horse back .

For instance check the following RFI floated by by MOD for modernisation of 81mm mortars (must be the British L16A 81 mm mortar
).

http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/ ... 231209.pdf

interestingly 120mm mortar has similar destructive radius/ power as 155mm only lacking in range.... which might not be an issue in mountains

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Apr 2010 21:53

NRao wrote:Centre okays raising of 2 mountain divisions

(These are in addition to the two that were raised earlier. However:)

With the hike in sanctioned manpower strength, the Army would now have more elbow room to rapidly raise the two divisions and train them in the shortest possible time. Moreover, the Government asked the Army to hasten the process of procuring Howitzer guns aptly suited for mountain warfare.

The Army planned to go in for more than 200 Howitzer guns which can be carried on horse back or in helicopters to the remotest posts in the rugged mountain terrain in Jammu & Kashmir and North-East.

The guns were likely to procured through the foreign military sale (FMS) route from the US, sources said.

Nrao saar, how did you figure out that these two divisions are in addition to the two raised earlier? To me it seems that IA has been allowed to increase its manpower. This will allow the IA to fill out the troop strength that would have been puled in from other formations to allow for raising these earlier mountain divisions. DDM has as usual mixed up the facts and narrative.

Added Later: These seem to be new raising. This article explains it better:
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... my/322331/

excerpt:

In a move that could raise the hackles of neighbouring Pakistan and China, India will soon raise two new division-sized army formations to give more teeth to its mountain warfare machinery.

"The two new formations will be raised in a two-phased plan in about five years," the sources said. Under the first phase, which will be implemented in two years, the two new divisions headquarters along with a brigade each, would come up, including the headquarters' support elements such as signals, provost, and intelligence units. Implementation of the second phase would take another two to three years and during that period the complete division would be ready for operation. At the end of the five years for raising the new formations, the two divisions would also have its air elements functional. {LCH anyone }

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Apr 2010 21:54

^ In Kargil Bofors was used in direct fire mode i.e. engaging targets directly in LoS but high up in the peaks , Mortars cannot achieve this as they have low muzzle velocity and are only used in indirect fire mode for lobbing shells at high angle of inclination .
However I agree in mountainous terrain where 'weight' is an issue it would be desirable to haul up mortars up the peaks where Howitzers or field guns cannot be carried.