Indian Space Program Discussion

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 27 Mar 2010 16:27

PratikDas wrote:
KrishG wrote:...
That is the RS-68. The engine which powers the Delta-IV family and the most powerful single chamber rocket engine.

Pic straight from commons and they have even added the ISRO logo onto the pic.
What else can we expect from DDM!
Wow, don't I feel like the fool for falling for the ISRO logo..
I guess this is what you were talking about, for everyone's benefit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-68

Why is part of the nozzle colored black? I am guessing(wildly) something to do with thermal measurements during the test(?)

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 27 Mar 2010 20:32

The new annual report speaks of, or at least alludes to, many launches between now and Dec 2010. On PSLV, there is Cartosat 2B, Resourcesat, RISAT-1, Astrosat and Meghatrophique. SRE-2 may also be launched independently or as a co-passenger with one of the above. Then there's an IRNNS aboard a PSLV.
On GSLV, there's the upcoming GSAT-4, and also Insat-3D.

This makes for a total of at least 8 launches before Dec 31, 2010. Is this realistic at all?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 27 Mar 2010 23:29

ISRO 2009-10 Annual Report -
Points of importance
* GSLV-Mk III faces yet another delay as ISRO has rescheduled (not the first time) the inaugural launch from 2010-11 to 2011-12.
* The conceptual design of SE has been finalized.
* HSF get's a mention in Annual Report with the CES design being finalized.
* RISAT-1 is supposed to be launched in the 3rd quarter of this year.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 27 Mar 2010 23:54

Varoon Shekhar wrote:The new annual report speaks of, or at least alludes to, many launches between now and Dec 2010. On PSLV, there is Cartosat 2B, Resourcesat, RISAT-1, Astrosat and Meghatrophique. SRE-2 may also be launched independently or as a co-passenger with one of the above. Then there's an IRNNS aboard a PSLV.
On GSLV, there's the upcoming GSAT-4, and also Insat-3D.

This makes for a total of at least 8 launches before Dec 31, 2010. Is this realistic at all?

2010-11 (1 April of 2010 to 31th March 2011)
1. GSLV-D3 - GSAT-4
2. PSLV-C15 - Cartosat-2B + Alsat-2A + Studsat + CanX-4,5
3. PSLV-C16 - RISAT-1
4. PSLV-C17 - Resourcesat-2 + SRE-2 + Youthsat
5. GSLV-F05 - GSAT-5 (Doubtful since launch subject to success of D3 flight and completion of fabrication of satellite on time )
6. GSLV-F06 - GSAT-6 (Doubtful:----"----)

I would be happy if ISRO can pull-out the first 4 launches during this financial year. I personally don't think 3 GSLV flights are possible for this financial year given that they can only be launched from SLP and they would have to share it with PSLV(C16).

Presently, D3 is nearly-ready on SLP and C15 is being stacked on FLP, so stacking of the C16 should be started on the SLP as soon as the D3 is launched to meet the 3rd quarter deadline for RISAT-1.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Mar 2010 10:23

The Annual report talks of W2M thus:

W2M spacecraft control is with the customer Eutelsat, which is presently operating communication services through the spacecraft transponders. As per the present plan, 12 transponders will be used.

I thought there was a power failure that crippled the spacecraft. Was it only a partial failure now that the ISRO AR says that 12 transponders are active and the satellite is itself in its slot ?

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Mar 2010 21:02

GSLV-D3 / GSAT-4 launch scheduled for April 15th, 2010.

PSLV-C15 / Cartosat-2B + Alsat-2A + Studsat + CanX-4,5 launch scheduled for May 5th, 2010.

PTI via Hindu

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 29 Mar 2010 23:45

http://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/16e-w2m.html

W2M was deployed at the beginning of January 2010 to 16° East in order to enter commercial service. It has been co-located with the EUROBIRD™ 16 and SESAT 1 satellites to provide continuity of services at one of Eutelsat's most long-standing orbital positions, which was previously home to the W2 satellite.

Glitch Takes Eutelsat W2 Out of Action

Eutelsat’s W2 telecommunications satellite, which operates at one of the company’s fastest-growing orbital slots, suffered an unexplained on-board failure and placed itself into sun-pointing safe mode late Jan. 27, forcing Eutelsat to off-load customers to three other satellites at the same orbital position, including two that just recently arrived there.

Eutelsat spokeswoman Vanessa O’Connor said Jan. 28 that Eutelsat is moving some W2 customers to the Eurobird 16 satellite, formerly called Atlantic Bird 4, which is also located at the 16 degrees slot. In addition, O’Connor said Eutelsat’s W2M satellite, which had been located at 3 degrees east without serving a commercial mission, has recently arrived at the 16 degrees east position and will handle at least some of the W2 traffic.

Eutelsat said in its Jan. 29 statement that W2M arrived at 16 degrees east in early January.

Launched in December 2008, W2M was never put into service by Eutelsat because of failures on its power system that became evident just weeks after launch. Eutelsat subsequently filed an insurance claim for W2M and said the satellite would not be integrated into Eutelsat’s commercial fleet.

O’Connor said that despite this, W2M retains about 50 percent of its commercial capacity and will be able to pick up some of the W2 customers, at least on an interim basis.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Mar 2010 08:39

GAGAN to take off in April

Civil aviation in the country looks set to take the first step towards modern space-based navigation when GSAT-4, the country's first satellite carrying a navigational payload, is flagged off in mid-April.

However, these improvements in air cannot be expected immediately, the official said. At least one or two more satellites will be needed to fully realise its benefits. The next follow-on satellite carrying the GAGAN payload – the GSAT-8 – is due later.

The ground equipment for the GAGAN system, sourced from Raytheon, US, formed a major component of the cost of the project.

Meanwhile, ISRO is working on a GPS-independent Indian regional navigation system of seven satellites.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 30 Mar 2010 10:13

Waiting eagerly for the GAGAN payload to be switched on. Would like to see what effect it has on DOP values.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Mar 2010 10:24

Gerard wrote:O’Connor said that despite this, W2M retains about 50 percent of its commercial capacity and will be able to pick up some of the W2 customers, at least on an interim basis.

Gerard, thanks. That explains it. So, it was not a complete failure, unlike the complete failure of the Ford Aerospace built INSAT-1.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Mar 2010 14:09

Boeing mulls collaboration with ISRO on communication satellites

Boeing has evinced interest in collaborating with Indian Space Research Organisation in the area of communication satellites, and the two entities are exploring joint opportunities, a senior ISRO official said.

But the future possible cooperation with Boeing is unlikely in the field of joint-building of communication satellites as the Indian Space agency already has a tieup in this segment with EADS Astrium, Managing Director of Antrix Corporation, ISRO’s commercial arm, K. R. Sridhara Murthi indicated.

“They (Boeing) said they are interested in having collaboration with us in the field of communication satellites. But we (ISRO) already have an alliance with Europeans (EADS Astrium),” he said.

“May be some new areas of business we (ISRO and Boeing) have to explore. We need to do a lot of homework before we could arrive at collaborative level. Still, it’s very preliminary type of exchange,” Mr. Murthi told PTI.

ISRO, meanwhile, is expanding its alliance with Astrium, with which it has an agreement to jointly offer communication satellites with a launch mass of two tons to three tons for the international market.

“We are trying to cooperate in other areas (in addition to communication satellites) such as earth observations. So, we have built along with them (Astrium) some multi-sensor ground systems for the USA and we are also trying to cooperate in other areas and explore what other type of cooperation we can do in the field of earth observations,” he said.

biswas · Post by **biswas** » 30 Mar 2010 14:46

SSridhar wrote:Boeing mulls collaboration with USRO on communication satellites

USRO?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Mar 2010 05:18

biswas wrote:USRO?

Looks like a typo on the Hindu's website. It has been fixed.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 31 Mar 2010 05:45

"Gerard, thanks. That explains it. So, it was not a complete failure, unlike the complete failure of the Ford Aerospace built INSAT-1."

Yes, that is good news. Perhaps you could give us laymen what a partial failure means in this regard. Was there a complete power failure, or did they have some kind of back-up power system, which is now supplying the satellite. Good reference to INSAT-1. When that failed, was the failure pumped up in the US and international media? Because India had a number of launch setbacks with SLV and ASLV; I do remember that some North American newspapers did give coverage to those failures, though not in a huge way. If they were balanced, they should have highlighted the failure of the American built satellite.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Apr 2010 07:57

SSridhar wrote:Boeing mulls collaboration with ISRO on communication satellites

Seems to be a resurrection of plans between ISRO and Boeing dating back to June 2004 when Boeing was "provided permission"

by the US Government to talk to ISRO about collaborating for building communication satellites in the 2 tonne class:

Boeing to build India satellite

That idea came to a close by Sept 2005 over ISRO moving onwards onto the 4 tonne class communication satellite:

ISRO-Boeing plan to build 2-tonne satellites dropped

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Apr 2010 18:31

Scientist who ushered the Indian space programme.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Apr 2010 20:46

India to fly own space shuttle in a year: Isro

Any specs on the payload capacity of this tech demonstrator ?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 02 Apr 2010 20:52

Lilo wrote:India to fly own space shuttle in a year: Isro

Any specs on the payload capacity of this tech demonstrator ?

HEX-01

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Apr 2010 20:53

India has not made offer to Russia to buy Soyuz-TMA: ISRO

“No, that’s all what the newspapers write,” Indian Space Research Organisation chairman K Radhakrishnan told PTI here on reports in a section of the Russian media which talked about the “offer“.

Nice to get a confirmation, after all buying a space rocket for a manned launch is entirely against the aim of "achieving" a manned space flight.

Russian reports also said China had received technical documentation on various Soyuz-TM systems and used them to develop its own Shenzhou manned spacecraft.

Isn't giving "technical documentation" of Soyuz-TM and thereby helping to develop Shenzou against MTCR ?
Which makes me to wonder how the chicoms manage to hide things from the uncle's prying eyes.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Apr 2010 21:03

KrishG wrote:
Lilo wrote: Any specs on the payload capacity of this tech demonstrator ?
HEX-01

Krishji,
the link doesnt mention any payload details of HEX.
On the other hand assuming that the SRE capsule(weighing some 250 Kilos) will form the reentry module part of HEX as shown in the pic, i venture a guess of less than 50 kilos (enough for a dog or a chimp

) as the available payload capacity

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Apr 2010 21:41

Lilo wrote:India to fly own space shuttle in a year: Isro

^^

Bengaluru , April 1: In a year’s time, India will fly an indigenous version of a space shuttle.
On its first flight, the rocket-powered....

They could have waited another day to make that announcement.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 04 Apr 2010 11:05

Attended Radhakrishnan's talk yday with K Mehta-ji. Interesting talk, but essentially a recap of what we already know. But some snippets & numbers that we'll try & share:

1) Clarity on CY2 - It'll be a moon lander mission with a rover. The confusion on who is doing what has been cleared up. ISRO will develop the spacecraft. Russia will provide the lander, and another Indian group (IIT-D?) will develop the rover that will explore the moon's surface.

2) Similar Popular science lectures will be held on the second saturday of each month from hereon. All are welcome.

3) ISRO has estimated that its fishing information saves fishermen Rs 6 lakhs/vessel/annum in costs, through saved time & fuel.

4) currently they are trying to surmount technological gaps with sensors & imaging systems for us on imaging & remote sensing satellites.

5) The recent sounding rocket test that was announced was a test of the RLV, where the winged body & passive scramjet modules were aerodynamically tested. Which explains the media attention, since other sounding rocket tests aren't mentioned.

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/states/ar ... epage=true

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 04 Apr 2010 12:09

I don't understand this fetish for collaboration with foreign countries. Developing own lander would have provided very good opportunity to do R&D. We could have funded so many researchers in the universities.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 04 Apr 2010 12:15

UPrabhu wrote:I don't understand this fetish for collaboration with foreign countries. Developing own lander would have provided very good opportunity to do R&D. We could have funded so many researchers in the universities.

When you learnt cycling, did your dad remove the training wheels? No. You learnt cycling with two training wheels. Then with one. and then without any. One crawls before walking, and walks before running.

If your opinion was so, does that mean you hated CY1 for the same reasons? Lets face it, a lot of the amazing results CY1 gave us were thanks to foreign instruments as well. And collaboration helps save time, and cost. Lowers the risk too.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Apr 2010 12:16

I for one do not see any collaboration fetish on the part of ISRO. what I don't understand is the 100% indigenous fetish some people have.

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 04 Apr 2010 12:19

Rahul M wrote:I for one do not see any collaboration fetish on the part of ISRO. what I don't understand is the 100% indigenous fetish some people have.

100% indigenous fetish is on part of being paid for in taxes! No problems with having it.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Apr 2010 12:27

a fetish leads to poor economic choices, at the cost of judicious ones. so not sure if the tax comment is valid. ISRO realised it didn't have the time/money/people to finish a lander by the time rest of CY-2 will be ready, so chose a ready option for the time being. by the time of CY-3 we can bet that ISRO's lander will be ready.

perhaps it would have been preferable to postpone the CY-2 by 2 years to make it 100% desi ?

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 04 Apr 2010 12:30

k prasad wrote:
UPrabhu wrote:I don't understand this fetish for collaboration with foreign countries. Developing own lander would have provided very good opportunity to do R&D. We could have funded so many researchers in the universities.
When you learnt cycling, did your dad remove the training wheels? No. You learnt cycling with two training wheels. Then with one. and then without any. One crawls before walking, and walks before running.

If your opinion was so, does that mean you hated CY1 for the same reasons? Lets face it, a lot of the amazing results CY1 gave us were thanks to foreign instruments as well. And collaboration helps save time, and cost. Lowers the risk too.

k prasad,

No I didn't hate CY1. Having russian lander is just missed opportunity to develop landing tech. in house. If ISRO wants to take that safer route its ok, just I would have liked them to be more aggressive.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 04 Apr 2010 17:55

Lilo wrote: Krishji,
the link doesnt mention any payload details of HEX.
On the other hand assuming that the SRE capsule(weighing some 250 Kilos) will form the reentry module part of HEX as shown in the pic, i venture a guess of less than 50 kilos (enough for a dog or a chimp ) as the available payload capacity

HEX is just Technology Demonstrator mission consisting if a scaled down RLV without scramjet. It doesn't even reach half of the distance for it to be "in space". As the name suggests the mission will evaluate the lift generated/loads induced by/on the vehicle at hypersonic speeds among other things.

Anyway, RLV isn't being built to haul humans into space. Btw the capacity of TSTO AVATAR is planned to be upto 1000 kg to LEO.

---------------------------------------------------------
With regards to CY-2, it would be wrong to question ISRO's commitment to indigenization. ISRO went ahead with adding it's own rover even when they already had the Russian Luna Glob-2. The Russians have a history of developing successful moon-landers and we can't blame ISRO for going for them considering the limited budget for CY-2 and the requirement for the mission to succeed in the first-go.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 04 Apr 2010 22:32

K P why dont you post your notes on the lecture, will post mine too tomorrow.
Thanks Gerard

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Apr 2010 03:15

http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/artic ... epage=true

India developing winged reusable rocket : ISRO

Get this baby into orbit, and I will do a yatra to Kanyakumari to personally build a shrine to the "South Indian Engineer".

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 05 Apr 2010 04:41

i do have a doubt as to how ISRO functions nowadays... most concepts are bcoming TDs ... pretty quickly.. is it more $$ available or a lot of 'friendly' help from other countries, or better scientists+engineers available... not that i dont like it, its just that we dont want any sanction-prone stuff ... or is it that the development of indigeneous cryo engine making most of the TDs possible and cheaper...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Apr 2010 06:13

none of these projects have been built overnight, they have been in planning and development for quite a long time. the RLV type thing has been in planning since 90's and in development from early 2000's IIRC.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 05 Apr 2010 13:17

sanjaykumar wrote:http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/artic ... epage=true

India developing winged reusable rocket : ISRO

Get this baby into orbit, and I will do a yatra to Kanyakumari to personally build a shrine to the "South Indian Engineer".

Oh! thats not needed with Trivandrum had / having Sarabhai, Dhawan, Gowarikar, Gupta etc .

I know quite a few known ones who aren't from South India like one from Delhi. He has two Phd's in Chemistry and was a senior scientist. Chaiwalla reports say that the paint that you see over PSLV/GSLV was his contribution. Its specifically made for the purpose. His articles came over in a Chemistry yearly magazine that will used to select the Nobel Awardee list

There are lot of folks from N.India in Trivandrum who loved the city and continued staying there even after their retirement.

Its an ALL India effort, not region specific

As Rahul had mentioned, these projects had been there for a long time, postponed due to delays in PSLV/GSLV programmes. But that is what all about programmes, right?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 05 Apr 2010 22:49

>>I will do a yatra to Kanyakumari to personally build a shrine to the "South Indian Engineer".

Sanjay

I was gonna reply, but I see symontk has beaten me to it... and he is absolutely right. On the other hand, OT of course, but if you do want to make a pilgrimage to KK pls feel free, and encourage all friends and family. Whenever I can, I encourage all the southie uncles and aunties I meet (retired, cash-rich and bored), to hit the road to the north. Right now they are simply going round and round the southern temple circuit. I've tried my damndest to get them moving northwards for a temple circuit there as well... Indians need to see more of our own country.

And BTW, on your way back from KK, don't hesitate to pass through by God's Own Country. Food is great. Fantastic beaches, jungles, rivers, and lots and lots of coconut oil etc. etc. etc.

OK sorry for going OT...

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 Apr 2010 04:29

Work apace for GSLV-D3 launch

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 06 Apr 2010 16:51

^^^^,

Those days of day dreaming are gone.Every thing is now reality based and capability based.Hence the ION thrusters on GSAT are 100% true and were already proved on an experimental sat before.So GSAT is not going to be fist one carrying them.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 06 Apr 2010 17:54

The excitement, anticipation and significance of the GSLV Mark 2 launch, is only a shade below that of the moon mission! In one aspect, more, because in the actual launcher for Chandrayaan( PSLV-XL), there was no major new technology being tried out, though the six larger strap-ons were important. But the new, indigenous cryogenic engine and stage is much more complex.

Jaladipc, on which experimental satellite were these ion thrusters tried out? IMS 2 years ago?

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 07 Apr 2010 20:19

No Russian involvement in developing of cryogenic engine: ISRO

Indian Space Research Organisation on Wednesday said there was no Russian involvement in the design and production of cryogenic engine that is developed by New Delhi indigenously and declared that it's a befitting reply to the technology denial regimes.

India is set to test the home-grown cryogenic stage and technology -- developed after 18 years of research -- in its rocket, GSLV, on April 15 from the Sriharikota spaceport.

Asked at a press conference here if Russians were involved in the development of cryogenic technology, ISRO Chairman K Radhakrishnan said India certainly learnt a lot working with Moscow and it was a "good learning experience".

But he asserted: "The (cryogenic) engine is designed by our own engineers, our own industry fabricated it, tested...". He added: "It's Indian. You should be proud of it".
ISRO officials recalled that the US exerted pressure on Russia not to provide cryogenic technology and India took a bold decision in 1992 to develop it indigenously.

Of the seven engines supplied by Russia earlier, ISRO has used five. Radhakrishnan said India developing this complex technology is a "befitting reply" to technology denial regimes.
"About Rs 335 crore is the amount used for the development (of indigenous cryogenic engine and stage)," Radhakrishnan said.

The Rs 175-crore GSLV-D3 would carry the Rs 150-crore, 2220 kg GSAT-4 experimental communications satellite in the proposed mission on April 15. The ISRO chairman said the PSLV mission, which would launch Cartosat-2B, an Algerian satellite, two Canadian nano-satellite, and Studsat developed by Indian students, is slated in the first half of May.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 07 Apr 2010 20:29

Varoon Shekhar wrote: Jaladipc, on which experimental satellite were these ion thrusters tried out? IMS 2 years ago?

Nope. IMS had conventional hydrazine thrusters.