Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Apr 2010 17:06

yindu bird will still have a lowered IR emission and a DIRCM turret to fall back upon while phyirring 20mm laddoos towards evil abdul.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Apr 2010 17:51

Venu wrote: Makes sense only no?

Makes perfect sense as long as you have never held a gun in your hands and tried to hit any target.

The only two people who can do this are the Phantom and Roy Rogers. Both are retired.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Apr 2010 17:53

are you sure the phantom has retired ? the 23rd or 24th phantom might be still doing the rounds in denkali.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 04 Apr 2010 17:55

Certainly makes sense in Rajnikanth-world. He is the only one who can do it IMO

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 04 Apr 2010 18:01

no abdul will be able sustain such accurate and huge amt of fire on bird which will be raining hell on him . if abdul decides to use a sniper, the first hit will not cause substantial damage and the pilot will be able to locate him and book him a room in hotel jannat with his 72s(BTW paid by the hour) afterall, not even abdul will assume that the bird will just come and start hovering over it , now if abdul manages to lay his hands on amriki stinger(or chinese copy) then yindoo bird will have to buzz off

Jagan wrote:Certainly makes sense in Rajnikanth-world. He is the only one who can do it IMO

DAN _headlines: Rajnikant offered to convert to baki islam, kills the baki reporter ,mullah enqyoob and kayani all in one stare

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 04 Apr 2010 21:17

nachiket wrote: Eight Engines. (mounted on four pylons)

Ofcourse. My bad.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Apr 2010 21:22

NehraA wrote:are these B52s by any chance

B 52s on the right lower side, probably Boeing 707 on left upper side.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Apr 2010 21:25

Ashish J wrote: More apt qustion wud be,,,How would India reply if LeT gets hold of(with help of Pak State), all of its nuclear weapns and threaten India 2 vacate Kashmir,,,,
This scenario is most likely,,rather than they trying to ship nukes into India(Y wud they need 2 ship it to India???)

Can you tell me what is the difference between the LeT and the Paki army and how LeT control of nukes will make any difference to India?

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 04 Apr 2010 23:29

Shameek wrote:
VikB wrote:^^^ it is a guided missile ok but the launcher seems to be remotely controlled. never heard of such a thing. plus the missile does not look to have much of long leg.
See this video of the AT-3 in action.

Thanks Shameek for this video. Does India have any equivalent system? And what is the advantage of having this type of system vis-a-vis the shoulder fired missiles?

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 05 Apr 2010 01:51

shiv wrote:
NehraA wrote:are these B52s by any chance
B 52s on the right lower side, probably Boeing 707 on left upper side.

doesnt google have an agreement with US DoD to edit sensitive military installations....if yes then i guess this image of diego garcia is already edited and uncle wants us(and everyone else in the region particularly iran & china) to know that he can flatten our cities before we can even say 'COLLATERAL DAMAGE'. So this isnt obviously the accurate representation of the deployment on ground, even the layout of the base must be different then what is shown here. Uncle has succesfully deceived me and others like me who would be planing a virtual invasion of diego garcia by their own virtual armed forces. So now to look at bhuvan for further planing and execution( hopefully i will find it on bhuvan).
BTW if one has to go one a vacation to diego garcia which mulq will give me a tourist visa(shh...part of my covert action to plant an assest inside the island)

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 05 Apr 2010 04:36

Paki Wastu Nashak-Shaktishali-Pawan Agami Kashtdayak Indranil Shurvir

sahi... by the time abdul says it he will be spotted and sent to jannat... nice way to clog their communication lines isnt it...

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 05 Apr 2010 15:08

Sanskrit for Tiger is Shardul and Vyaghra

LCH = Shardul

Vyaghra Bal Parakarm = Valour and Strength of Tiger is also suitable, in short VBP

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 05 Apr 2010 15:54

i have a newbie doubt , if it is a blunder please forgive....

suppose for an Air to Air to missile having the capability lock down and shoot the enemy AirCraft in the range of 100 KM like our Astra missile..

suppose Enemy aircraft is 90 km away and using our Air to Air missile we locked and fired at the enemy aircraft , the point here is Operational range for our Missile is 100 km .
1: in this case our enemy aircraft is already 90 km away and by reaching >10 km , can he able to avoid the threat of or missile..?
2:Suppose in the above case if the enemy is able to avoid the missile how effectively can we use our BVR missile....

thakns n advance

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 05 Apr 2010 17:53

jimmy_moh wrote:1: in this case our enemy aircraft is already 90 km away and by reaching >10 km , can he able to avoid the threat of or missile..?

If its a tail chase scenario and it is a fast aircraft it can outfly the missile. During the Gulf war Iraqi MiG 25s were known to briefly engage F 15s and then outfly the Sparrows launched at them.

2:Suppose in the above case if the enemy is able to avoid the missile how effectively can we use our BVR missile....

The missile is usually not launched until it is well within engagement range. In case of very long range engagements it might be the AWACS which passes on target information to an aircraft so the enemy does not know he has been 'painted' by a hostile radar. Also, not all aircraft have MAWS and without information of a missile launch towards them, go 'boom'. The Russians also had a policy of using one IR and one Radar guided missile so the enemy has his hands full with countering two different types of threat.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 05 Apr 2010 18:23

^^
A small nitpick. Most modern missiles have active homing. So, there will be no need for the AWACs to guide them. If you are meaning to say that AWACS would be needed just to provide the initial lock on, then that is a different matter. But even there, you are incorrect when you say that the target aircraft would not be able to detect the threat. Radar lock is achieved by projecting high intensity of radar waves to the enemy aircraft. So, regardless of the source, the target aircraft with RWR will detect the projected radar waves and know that it has been locked on. Even if this was to be overlooked, the target a/c equipped with MAWS will detect the approaching missile via its radar and IR signature.
PS: I also have doubt regarding whether an AWAC can be used to guide a missile or even lock the target a/c for that matter. I believe that it is a common misconception that it can. The radar waves emitted by AWACS are of too great a wavelength for that. However, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 05 Apr 2010 19:11

^^ You are right about AWACS not guiding the missile. AWACS will detect the enemy and hopefully give friendly aircraft a chance to get closer to the target before being detected. If the launch aircraft does not switch on its own radar then the enemy does not see a radar source except the AWACS. Or if there are 2 Su-30's with one tracking and the other launching the missile. In any case if the aircraft is equipped with MAWS it will detect the missile. In fact the RWR can even detect active radar guided missiles. In case of semi active, the missile needs guidance from the launch aircraft and thus this does not hold. One of the big factors in missile evasion is the time available for manouveres or countermeasures. Lower the time, harder it is to evade.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 06 Apr 2010 21:11

A friend of mine went on a biking trip to Chakrata. He told me that foreigners are not allowed in Chakrata due to some classified reasons. I suspect part of the answer lies in the fact that SFF has its base there. Any more info on this? "This" meaning why foreigners are not allowed there

munna · Post by **munna** » 06 Apr 2010 21:54

atreya wrote:A friend of mine went on a biking trip to Chakrata. He told me that foreigners are not allowed in Chakrata due to some classified reasons. I suspect part of the answer lies in the fact that SFF has its base there. Any more info on this? "This" meaning why foreigners are not allowed there

No info saar and if someone gave it to you please report

to authorities concerned. Foreigners are not allowed at a lot of locations within India , heck even Indian passport holder NRIs also require permission to visit certain borders.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 06 Apr 2010 22:21

munna wrote:
atreya wrote:A friend of mine went on a biking trip to Chakrata. He told me that foreigners are not allowed in Chakrata due to some classified reasons. I suspect part of the answer lies in the fact that SFF has its base there. Any more info on this? "This" meaning why foreigners are not allowed there
No info saar and if someone gave it to you please report to authorities concerned. Foreigners are not allowed at a lot of locations within India , heck even Indian passport holder NRIs also require permission to visit certain borders.

No more info ji. This much info is available for everyone to see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakrata
Now, I think its in my best interests to zip my mouth shut!

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 Apr 2010 22:28

atreya wrote:A friend of mine went on a biking trip to Chakrata. He told me that foreigners are not allowed in Chakrata due to some classified reasons. I suspect part of the answer lies in the fact that SFF has its base there. Any more info on this? "This" meaning why foreigners are not allowed there

from Wiki

Most training is still conducted at Chakrata, lasting nine months and is similar to India Army training, with extensive additional courses on guerrilla tactics, mountain and jungle warfare. All commandos are parachute qualified after five jumps, with three refresher jumps every year. SFF personnels are trained in four basic areas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Fr ... e#Training

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Apr 2010 08:48

Since agile LCH will be hunting lots of snakes in the grass and immune to their poison, it can be called Mongoose .

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 07 Apr 2010 09:00

Prem wrote:Since agile LCH will be hunting lots of snakes in the grass and immune to their poison, it can be called Mongoose .

Well you've got the A129 Mangusta(Mongoose) in service with the Italians already. So that's sort of taken.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Apr 2010 09:14

snow leaopard (tushar cheetah) since it will hunt paki goats in those areas.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 07 Apr 2010 09:59

Rahul M wrote:snow leaopard (tushar cheetah)

The Leopard (not Leaopard!) and the Cheetah are two completely different animals with the former from the Pantherinae and the latter from the Felinae subfamily under the Felidae family.

There is no such thing as a "snow cheetah" as the cheetah are brush and prairie animal. Furthermore, the Asiatic Cheetah is literally extinct in India. So, it is hardly a fitting name for an attack helicopter operating in the Himalayas.

The only species from the Felidae family that operate in the mountains would be the Cougar/Puma, the Lynx/Bobcat and sometimes the Serval. Also, Persian kings used the Caracal/Persian Lynx (no relation to the Lynx subfamily) as domesticated hunting cats. They were popular with the Moguls as well. They called them Syah-gosh .

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 07 Apr 2010 10:01

I know....

We should call it Ayesha.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Apr 2010 10:31

Brando wrote:
Rahul M wrote:snow leaopard (tushar cheetah)

The Leopard (not Leaopard!) and the Cheetah are two completely different animals with the former from the Pantherinae and the latter from the Felinae subfamily under the Felidae family.

There is no such thing as a "snow cheetah" as the cheetah are brush and prairie animal. Furthermore, the Asiatic Cheetah is literally extinct in India. So, it is hardly a fitting name for an attack helicopter operating in the Himalayas.

The only species from the Felidae family that operate in the mountains would be the Cougar/Puma, the Lynx/Bobcat and sometimes the Serval. Also, Persian kings used the Caracal/Persian Lynx (no relation to the Lynx subfamily) as domesticated hunting cats. They were popular with the Moguls as well. They called them Syah-gosh .

herr general guderian, a host of congratulations are in order

>

The Leopard (not Leaopard!)

firstly, you have shown that you can detect typo's, so that's a big improvement in my book. there is hope for you yet.

>

The Leopard (not Leaopard!) and the Cheetah are two completely different animals with the former from the Pantherinae and the latter from the Felinae subfamily under the Felidae family.

congratulations again on your strategic skills in browsing wikipedia.
I'm sure you are completely unaware of it, but there is a country called India where these names originated and the word cheetah(cheetabagh in bengali and some other Indian languages) is used for BOTH the cheetah AND the leopard.

(do I need to type that slowly for you to understand ? if so, please don't hesitate, anything for the herr general)

one proof : http://sites.google.com/site/girforestg ... iatic-lion

Asiatic Lion & Gir Forest Guide
.................
in vernacular use of the name, 'Cheeta', and its angsiation 'Cheetah'. In many Indian languages, 'cheeta' is synonymous with 'leopard' often also called 'cheeta bagh' to distinguish it from tiger which is at times termed as"bagh'.Similiar is the mistake for tiger which is often incorrectly called 'sher' or more correctly called 'babbar sher' to make a distinction's between lion and tiger.

to sum up, all you have done is parade your ignorance of Indian languages (from which the terms originate !) and stamped it with a '

' .
thanks for the entertainment, not that we are complaining !

lastly, tushar cheeta is a well-used term for snow leopard in bangla and being of sanskrit origin it is easily understandable by 'most' Indians (not counting the astronomically talented guderians amongst us)

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Apr 2010 10:32

Sharaba?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Apr 2010 17:45

herr general guderian, a host of congratulations are in order

(I see that the uber strategic thinker is now widely recognized)

--->rahul da, the Leopard is more commonly known as "Tenduya"...found aplenty in my part of the woods...

Brando wrote: The only species from the Felidae family that operate in the mountains would be the Cougar/Puma, the Lynx/Bobcat and sometimes the Serval...........<SNIP>

Herr General, considering the amount of 'strategic-thinking' you've to do...I think it is obvious that you forgot the small detail about an animal called as the Snow Leopard - the big daddy of all mountain cats. Please read here when you get time from your other important committments to Strategic Thinking....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Leopard

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 07 Apr 2010 18:08

The only species from the Felidae family that operate in the mountains would be the Cougar/Puma, the Lynx/Bobcat and sometimes the Serval

Sir, the cougar is not an Indian animal. It thrives in North America. The lynx too, lives in Arctic regions and Europe. Since we are talking about naming the LCH, I think we should stick to Indian animals. The snow leopard, is one. A spectacular hunter, it jumps from rock to rock on nearly vertical cliffs! Anyways, this animal discussion is OT.

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 07 Apr 2010 18:38

i guess somethin along the lines of snow leopard sounds good.... or any such feline name for the LCH is good... on that note i hope our Kashmiri snow leopards are still around...

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 07 Apr 2010 18:52

Gaur wrote:PS: I also have doubt regarding whether an AWAC can be used to guide a missile or even lock the target a/c for that matter.

AFAIK the locking of target in case of AAMs is a closed loop process i.e. radar painting the target, the reflected energy coming back to the seeker of missile and the missile confirming that it has locked on to the target.

Regarding AWAACs, theoritically it could provide with the rough target data to an AAM via datalink, no need for painting the target by AWAACs for semi active guidance.

Added later : AWAACs operate in L band frequencies which have low angular and range resolution and hence not suaitable for fire control. Moreover how one would fit a big radar antenna for L band in scant space available in missile nosecone ( X band antenna)?

Cheers....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Apr 2010 19:00

rohit, tendua is common for all leopards if I'm not wrong, not specific to the snow leopard. I've heard people of jharkhand refer to leopards as tendua.

atreya, kashmir used to have lynx, I don't know the current situation.

VinayG · Post by **VinayG** » 08 Apr 2010 02:40

how bout the name black panther or black tiger

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2010 21:29

Question!

Is it possible for a fighter to have multiple AAMs attached to one payload point?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 08 Apr 2010 21:42

Vishwamitra wrote:Question!

Is it possible for a fighter to have multiple AAMs attached to one payload point?

Yes.
Multiple Ejector Rack
Wiki Link

Here's a pic of an IN Sea Harrier with two AAMs on one pylon.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... 057_1_.jpg

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 08 Apr 2010 21:59

I have a few queries about the Bubble Canopy :--
1. It exposes the whole HUD when open, so outside dust and heat could damage that, please correct if I am wrong.
2. How expensive is the Bubble canopy w.r.t to the regular one ?
3. Does the refactive index of the materical used could play with the pilots vision.I mean if it imparts some illusion.

TIA
Avinandan

VinayG · Post by **VinayG** » 09 Apr 2010 05:23

Avinandan wrote:I have a few queries about the Bubble Canopy :--
1. It exposes the whole HUD when open, so outside dust and heat could damage that, please correct if I am wrong.
2. How expensive is the Bubble canopy w.r.t to the regular one ?
3. Does the refactive index of the materical used could play with the pilots vision.I mean if it imparts some illusion.

TIA
Avinandan

Answer to you first point

canopy are only open when the pilots get in or get out when the fighter is on ground the whole cockpit will be covered making it only a short term exposure. and when the fighter finishes the sortie the cockpit will be cleaned, canopy closed and the whole cockpit will be covered by the maintianance crew. So their isz no serious problem from dust

especially in hot climates, was the buildup of heat due to the "greenhouse effect". This was a real problem on long-range missions that could last over 10 hours!

Problems with the optics of the curved "glass" were also encountered. Distorions and reflections (espcially of the lighted instuments at night) were very annoying, to say the least.

There were also incidents where a jettisoned bubble canopy would release sooner from one rail than from the other causing it to flip off to the side rather than straight back and up. At least one pilot was seriously injured when he was struck on the side of the head before he even got out of the plane.

It was noticed by naval pilots that bubble canopies had a tendency to be pushed closed by aerodynamic forces. Since canopies are left open during carrier takeoffs and landings (to allow the pilot to escape should the plane go into rhe sea) this was undesirable.

The bubble canopy became the canopy of choice as aircraft development progressed. Later planes were designed from the beginning to have them, so the problems associated with them were anticipated and eliminated in advance.

but know all the modern fighter cockpits are air conditioned

fighter cockpit air conditioners link

http://www.fcxinc.com/images/pdf/031610 ... ss_vf3.pdf

http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFull ... 076-29.pdf

links to answer your first point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_canopy

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6042239.pdf

i dont know the answer for your second and third points senior members might help you

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Apr 2010 06:56

nachiket wrote:
Vishwamitra wrote:Question!

Is it possible for a fighter to have multiple AAMs attached to one payload point?
Yes.
Multiple Ejector Rack
Wiki Link

Here's a pic of an IN Sea Harrier with two AAMs on one pylon.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... 057_1_.jpg

Thank you sir! Then why all our military scenarios present that our SU-30MKIs carry say 10 R-77 onleee... why cant they carry, say 20 R-77 and kill all the bad-ass chinese?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Apr 2010 07:22

20 R-77's ?!

it will have all the agility of a truck with that load !

it will be a dead duck if it needs to get into a dogfight. the drag will be massive and not to mention that so many missiles are not needed in an engagement.

a similar question will be why does not a soldier go to battle with 5000 rounds in stead of the usual few hundreds ?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Apr 2010 07:53

Rahul M wrote:20 R-77's ?!
it will have all the agility of a truck with that load ! it will be a dead duck if it needs to get into a dogfight. the drag will be massive and not to mention that so many missiles are not needed in an engagement.

a similar question will be why does not a soldier go to battle with 5000 rounds in stead of the usual few hundreds ?

Because a soldier cannot carry 5000 rounds. Rambha should be able to carry ~3 tons of armaments, right