The Red Menace

[JwalaMukhi]

Sri. Chidambaram is based on TINA factor. There is only pranbda and chidambaram, who have some sense of respect in the camp. Maybe, atleast from now on Sri.Chidambaram, spends time not worrying about why bakis weren't selected in IPL tamasha and makes it right. Since he has accepted that buck stops at him, he has a second chance to prove that he actually meant the talk.

[uddu]

So many details are going out to the naxals throught the media. Now they know that UAV's will start monitoring their operations from a week's time. They will come out with a strategy to deal with it. Instead of using UAV's and suprising the Maoists the secrets are let out. Who benifits? The Maoists.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_un ... ek_1369469

PTI
Friday, April 9, 2010 20:26 IST

New Delhi: Unmanned Aerial Vehicles UAV) will be pressed into service in anti-Naxal operations from next week, a move aimed at generating real-time intelligence for the forces engaged in operations in dense forests.
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India's Maoist problem

Official sources in the home ministry said there will be a trial run of UAVs from next week in which army may also be roped in because of their expertise in such kind of operations.

The UAVs will be used for intelligence gathering, image capturing and giving details of the topography of the terrain to the units going for operations against the Left-wing extremists, they said.

Sources said the services of UAVs are urgently required as the forces engaged in anti-naxal operations needed real-time information to achieve more success.

The UAVs, imported from abroad, have the capacity to fly 5,000 feet above the ground and can quickly provide information to the ground force for appropriate action.

The Centre is also mulling over bringing strategic changes in the tactics adopted by ground troops while going for anti-naxal operations, they said.

Under this, small units of forces will be mobilised for the operations with equal distribution of state and central paramilitary forces, they said.

The government also plans to split the mandate of CRPF into two parts--one exclusively for counter-insurgency operations and another for law and order duties--for their better utilisation.

Sources said the initial reports coming from Dantewada indicated that there was basic violation of standard operating procedures, which resulted to such a high casualty. These included mandatory 2/4 formations, a distance of at least 10 feet between each formation and deployment of an advance road-opening party.{Maoists will now expect standard operational practices being followed by CRPF}

Government is also stressing on more rigorous training of paramilitary forces on jungle-warfare before being deployed.

"We are availing the training facilities of army and may send more and more paramilitary forces to such institutes for better training," an official said.

[Pranav]

^^^ no harm done - Maoists would have found out about the UAVs anyway.

The ideaforge NETRA UAV would be pretty good for scouting ahead while troops are on the move. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9-WvXsXa8M

Imagine 3 or 4 of these, scouting a kilometer or two ahead, and on the flanks. The battalion could carry lots of spare batteries.

[Muppalla]

Sri. Chidambaram is based on TINA factor. There is only pranbda and chidambaram, who have some sense of respect in the camp. Maybe, atleast from now on Sri.Chidambaram, spends time not worrying about why bakis weren't selected in IPL tamasha and makes it right. Since he has accepted that buck stops at him, he has a second chance to prove that he actually meant the talk.

Here is the lovely article and TINA factor is played very well.

Offer to quit restores Chidambaram halo

Union home minister P Chidambaram played a masterstroke and turned the tables on detractors baying for his blood in the wake of the Maoist massacre at Dantewada. “They were asking me sarcastically, directly or indirectly, where the buck stops now. And I tell them, the buck stops at my desk,” he said on Friday, but refused to disclose any more at the CRPF function in the capital.

The content of his disclosure was as telling of the Harvard lawyer’s political acumen as was the timing. He knew that UPA chairman and Congress president Sonia Gandhi is out of town for a holiday with her family members. He also knew prime minister Manmohan Singh has already advanced his trip to the US, and that he has a date with president Barack Obama in Washington. He was also aware that there is no one in the Congress who can handle the responsibility of internal security affairs at this stage.

Therefore, he planned his timing well. Immediately after returning from Dantewada on Wednesday night, he quietly walked up to the PM’s 7 Race Course residence. Singh had no clue that Chidambaram was carrying a letter of resignation accepting “full responsibility” for the incident and stating that the “buck stops at my desk”.What transpired between the two is not known.

In fact, there was no clue of it until 11am on Friday when Chidambaram made the categorical remarks at the Shourya Diwas (Valour day) CRPF function. What followed later was obvious. The prime minister’s office (PMO) rushed in to say that the PM never sought the home minister’s resignation and that it had been rejected.

As if this was not enough, Congress spokesman Abhishek Manu Singhvi fully backed Chidambaram and showered praise on him.
In a rare gesture, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and the Left parties, too, gave “PC” their complete support. The BJP said, “We do not want a soldier to be on the backfoot when he is on the battlefield. The FM should not turn his back on the crisis.” Of course, there was some piece of advice, too, when the party said that he is a “victim of his own idiom”. But they made it clear that “we don’t want PC to resign”.

West Bengal chief minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, who was recently targeted by the home minister, said that it was “collective responsibility” of the states and the Centre.

Ironically, more than the Opposition parties, leaders in his own party were waiting to corner him at the first opportunity. When the Dantewada carnage took place, Chidambaram couldn’t have blamed the BJP in Chhattisgarh or chief minister Raman Singh, who virtually handed over to him the entire police command to control, monitor and run the operations, for not cooperating. Even though the RSS had publicly criticised him for only “talking”, the parliamentary wing of the BJP was backing him to the hilt.

Why is Chidambaram feeling cornered within his own party?

Because of resentment over how he had dislodged national security adviser MK Narayanan and bundled him off to West Bengal. Also, he had confined the PMO’s role in the internal security affairs to almost nil by bringing the IB, RAW and other security agencies’ network directly under him. He has, in this scenario, nobody other than himself to blame for the poor planning, operation and ground-level situation. He was also somewhat peeved that the PM reacted differently when he (Chidambaram) had said that air power will be used against the Maoists. The PM had said that “no decision has been taken as yet” and even the air chief went public rejecting the home minister’s view.

But at the same time, he didn’t want to be a LK Advani who projected himself as Sardar Patel-II, or a Shivraj Patil either who refused to quit in the wake of 26/11 in Mumbai.

Instead, by making the right noises about resigning, he raised his own stature.

[Philip]

Congress' arrogance,and heading for a mighty fall.

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnis ... 64076.html

[Kati]

The Statesman, April 10, 2010

Foreign hands in Maoist realm... 9 April 2010

MIDNAPORE, 9 APRIL: At a time when the entire Junglemahal is considered vulnerable because of Maoist presence, several foreigners were spotted coming out from the Arabari forest in Salboni at around 2.30 p.m. yesterday.
Neither the district police nor the forest department officers had any information about these foreigners. Even Central and state Intelligence officers were in the dark, giving rise to suspicion whether these foreigners were ordinary tourists, or Maoist sympathisers.
Two state government officials who had spotted the foreigners said there were 6 men and 4 women in the party. Mr Manoj Verma, superintendent of police, said he has no information about the matter, but a senior police officer in Salboni said their men had seen the foreigners but could not keep vigil on them. “It is suspicious how they visited the forest without letting police know first. We are trying to find out about them,” he said.
-Biswabrata Goswami

[Nihat]

X-posting from Internal security thread

Security forces one-up on rebels in intelligence operations

Its very heartning to hear things like this, it reenforces faith in Greenhunt and the fact that if the resolve at the top is firm then Naxal days are numbered, despite the sacrifices and setbacks we suffer. I hope that at the least from every mistake our strategy evolves, changes are made and newer technologies are introduced to crush the head of this serpent.

[Nihat]

The Naxals must be defeated, here's how

[Nihat]

Maoists kill two Trinamool Congress workers in West Bengal

[jaibhim]

Some truth in how maoists ought to be defeated. Good governance , a war against corruption, some introspection about each of our thoughts and actions whether we are true to our conscience and sustainable development is the pivot of any security strategy. However, coming to think of it at least people like varavara rao have their ears to the ground in so far as the vocabulary they speak unlike being outside the language of the "exotic other" the lab rats of the activists, telugu, kannada, gondi whatever and probably some meeting point can be arrived at or atleast we know what they stand for unlike the duplicitous, jet set orientalism embracing activist crowd that just loves to have a good whip at India, the idea of the fragile but very imperfectly functioning Indian democracy by lap dancing for the media in the west[how elitist] with not one person ready to mount a counter argument. This is not the case with the activists and we want peace crowd with their jhola bags and fab india kurtas. What is urgent is that universities, with their rip wan winkle "research scholars" be screened and removed if they cannot complete their course within a definite period of time. The term research scholar used in India is a term that is condemned abroad where people are so much more humble, and the students who work manage with very limited means and slog their heart out. The universities [ quite a few sympathizers are brahminical marxists, with radical views readying for the big push stage, are there in such institutions in Madras for instance ( it need not be elaborated about the state of social science research[which has been destroyed by the revolutionary delhi circuit and any critical engagement in an array of subjects as done abroad is non existent, that is why people have to put newspaper before the us consulate and sleep through the night, the jhola wallahs bash the west but travel club class what an irony) and the amount of free time available in many institutes in the universities to hold marxist lenninist resistance school training classes to the workers of universities and institutions such as the port trust for arising of revolutionary consciousness and be ready for the revolution as and when it comes katturai.blogspot.com] and the other linguistic-revolutionaries and other such institutions must be kept a close vigil upon. Today the cyberspace is an open recruitment ground and one must keep vigil, unfortunately quite a few of our babus are way behind on that front or else the roots are only getting even more deeper inside. Being knowledgeable individuals who feel some affection for the idea of India[ though very imperfect and needing a long way to be just] it is our duty to keep vigil. The government has failed the constitution for a substantial section of the populace the poor the backward victims of the two glass system and we are only paying for the denial of social justice to the poor and it is in peril of being hijacked by a dangerous alien ideology which is violent and does not tolerate dissent. kadam kadam badhaye ja as the song for netaji went and India must be protected and all forms of fundamentalism must be defeated.

[Gerard]

Naxalites in Delhi

[JwalaMukhi]

Congress' arrogance,and heading for a mighty fall.

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnis ... 64076.html

Congress (Arrogance)

Aditya SinhaFirst Published : 10 Apr 2010

Chidambaram’s arrogance was on display on Sunday when he announced that he would finish off the Naxals within three years. The Naxals struck back in a deadly way, and you would agree that had 76 jawans been killed in Kashmir, India would have verged on an incident with Pakistan. Perhaps that’s a clue to what the Congress wants: it wants the middle class to focus so much on tribal warriors that it forgets about jihadis. Making people focus on the impoverished tribal removes their focus on the impoverished Muslim, and this probably fits into the Congress party’s electoral strategy. All those conservatives who fulminate against the Naxals and want the air force to be used to clear the forests of Naxals (so that big business can start strip mining the land) ought to keep this in mind.

[email protected]
quote]

This is absolutely correct. The solution to the Naxal problem lies largely in tackling vested political interests. The oxygen to naxals is maintained by internal as well as external links. Breaking and scrutinizing those links will prove to be very painful for many in the political dispensations. Tactically, getting rid of naxals on the ground is not a big deal. But putting an end to lifeline of naxals is a big deal and very doable: and that should be the focus.
Naxals, have been a problem for quite some time now. The party is stuck in rut and derives its strength on criminalized base, and appeasement tactics. The party has carefully nurtured that TINA factors are at play. Cleaning up the party and its direction should not be the role of Home minister.

The point is Sri.Chidambaram has a chance to focus on being the Home Minister of India, and less on working for the party utilizing the privileges accorded by virtue of his position. Any benefit to the party should be secondary. Currently, it is other way round that India benefits only as secondary side effect to the main party benefits.
It is important that Sri.Chidambaram not drop of the ball on Jihadi threats (both internal and external) by excessive shadow boxing with the naxals.

Can he reverse the trend and put India first and always, and the party last? Dropping the ball second time is unacceptable. Time will hash it out whether the tiger is paper or real in second round.

[vera_k]

Out of the Red shadow

In a small, hilly district of south Gujarat lies the story of a people moving out of the shadow of war and death, guns and bullets to embrace peace and prosperity. It is the story of bravery in the face of death, of battling armed Maoists who are slicing through India's tribal heartland, challenging the writ of the state.

[Gerard]

Binayak Sen condemns Dantewada massacre

Ernesto Che Guevara’s impressions of India, recorded after a visit in 1959

You can't pass the buck, PC

[abhishek_sharma]

Vir Sanghvi on Maoists

e-paper:

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1

normal version:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/v ... 29773.aspx

[ASPuar]

Naxalite supporters at JNU, Delhi, celebrate Dantewada killings.

Pitched battle over 'people's war' at JNU

[Viv S]

Vir Sanghvi has an excellent knack of stating facts bluntly without much consideration for political correctness.

Though terrorism and insurgencies often inflict serious damage on the State and its agencies in the early years of the conflict, history has taught us that in the long-run, the Indian State always wins. No matter whether it is Nagaland, Naxalbari or anywhere else, it is impossible for revolutionaries/ insurgents/terrorists (pick the one you like) to match the immense resources of the State.
Until the battle is resolved, however, the ones who suffer the most are the very people the revolution/insurgency is supposed to benefit. Because the State knows no other way of fighting insurgencies, security forces routinely raid villages, arrest innocent men, kill bystanders and unleash a reign of terror.
Initially, the insurgents argue that all this will work in their favour: “The army is ensuring that the ordinary people turn against it.” But in the long-run — whether in Punjab or in Mizoram — ordinary people tire of being trapped in an endless conflict and public sentiment inevitably turns against the militants.
The State knows this. And it is prepared to wait.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/v ... 29773.aspx

[chaanakya]

Vir sanghvi conveniently ignores what happened in China or Nepal or Korea or Vietnam. His logic would cut both ways.Majority of Tribal people do not enjoy the benefits of modern ways of life. They are accustomed to hardships in forest and life is simple as long as either maoists or govt do not try to intrude into their space and introduce things which are alien to their ways of living.

There used to be debate on development imperatives vs preserving cultural ethos. Do we need to force a paradigm of development which does not respect their ways of living , their culture and tradition. Do we not preserve their ways of life. Did we ever ask what they really want? As a citizen of a democratic country don't they have a right or say in the way things should be done? Mani Shankar Aiyer made this point on some TV channel. But these debates are as old as british rule in India which brought different paradigm of development. They were also careful to some extent, learning after various uprisings among tribal people. British introduced certain changes such as Land can not be sold or brought in designated tribal areas. Deputy Commissioner with enhanced powers were posted in such notified tribal areas ( Scheduled) and visits were also regulated. Of course all this they used for their own gains and ignored such restrictions when suited them. But at least they were pretending. Now intellectual underpinnings of development process is not understood and same model is applied everywhere. Someone in concerned ministry would send guidelines for a scheme and it would create local difficulties. Development must suit their needs and respect their desire and need for creating their space.

The only resource Govt has is infinite patience born out of inability to understand the situation and act. That is what vir sanghvi , in his infinite wisdom, tells the Govt to do. Tribals would never turn to govt for any needs as most of their needs are met from the forest. And that is invaded then they would be open to maoist influence.

Most of the maoists leading them are from AP and WB and they and their sympathisers and relatives need to be told F**k off.

As for tribal people, Govt must proactively try to win their trust and repose faith in their wisdom, in their way of life.
What we need to do is to bring them into decision making and implementation process of the Govt and respect their space and culture.This is based on empirical experience of having spent childhood and schooling in the areas which have now become maoists affected.

Vir sanghvi and likes of his ilk should go and stay with them before shooting from their mouth.

[Suppiah]

The only good thing about the jnu incident is that it has brought together NSUI and ABVP - Cong and BJP. If these two parties can work together in national interest, Stalinist rapist goon mass murderers can be disposed of in a week. First step should be to arrest all these students and their professors and give them the exact same treatment Maoists would give their political opponents. And send the bill for the treatment to their families, like their paymasters in Beijing do

[Viv S]

Vir sanghvi conveniently ignores what happened in China or Nepal or Korea or Vietnam. His logic would cut both ways.Majority of Tribal people do not enjoy the benefits of modern ways of life. They are accustomed to hardships in forest and life is simple as long as either maoists or govt do not try to intrude into their space and introduce things which are alien to their ways of living.

As for tribal people, Govt must proactively try to win their trust and repose faith in their wisdom, in their way of life.
What we need to do is to bring them into decision making and implementation process of the Govt and respect their space and culture.This is based on empirical experience of having spent childhood and schooling in the areas which have now become maoists affected.

Vir sanghvi and likes of his ilk should go and stay with them before shooting from their mouth.

He's not expressing empathy or callousness. He's stated a blunt fact. The Maoists don't have what it takes to overthrow/outfight/outlast the Republic of India.

[brihaspati]

There is a slight problem in the "State vs Maoists" paradigm. The previous episodes of Maoist urpsurge in the 70's coincided with a peculiar phase of the Cold War.

Consider 1971. USA is locked into a global cold war with USSR. It sees POWI as a crucial element in its strategy to contain communists in Asia. Therefore it sides with POGWI against Bangladeshi nationalist aspirations and moves against India and IG. But this pushes IG closer to USSR and USA is checkmated. This still does not make USA a lover of communist violence within India, especially those interested with Maoism. There could have been covert and secret services playing around with Maoists [and revolutionaries across the border in BD] as a means of weakeing USSR influence. Already Mao had been on war path with the new Soviet dispensation that criticized Stalin under Krushchev. But as soon as channels start off with Mao himself leading to the famous Nixon visit, this need for pandering to Maoists would have vanished.

This was possibly partly responsible for the success of actions against the Naxals in WB and elsewhere. Similarly the botched coup in BD by the leftists was superbly managed to both destroy leftists and bring pro-POWI military hardcore in BD to power.

Look at the timeline : 1963[break between Mao and USSR]-1965[Indo-Pak war]-1967[rearrangement of power relations within PRC after the Cultural Rev]-1969[end of first phase of cultural rev/first Left Front govs] -1971[Naxals start off -BD war of liberation]-1973[Mao-Nixon meet the previous year - withdrawal from Vietnam in Paris accord]-1975[BD coup/Mao ill and dies next yesr/Deng begins to reappear/Naxals begin to suffer reversals and are practically wiped off from WB]-1977[IG "punished"]. Things happen more or less with a regular pattern.

At the time the international "states" toyed with the idea of "Maoists"as a tool, but abandoned them when they could come to direct alliances and inroads with the powers that be.

So it is not only a question of Indian state vs Maoists, but Indian state vs non-Indian states+Maoists. It then is new set of equations as to whose resources are greater and whose patience is longer.

[chaanakya]

I tend to agree with the above analysis. Infinite patience lulling Govt into inaction ( especially when bristling forces would be raring for major strike against maoists) smacks of pseudo-intellectual support from so called neutral sources. This is more dangerous that RNDhoti Roi and jee nalayakha who romaticise maoists perfidy with tribal issues.

When State is threatened with insurgency supported by Non Indian States, China/pakistan being major ones, the response has to be multipronged , aiming to deny advantage to maoists erode support base , destroy financial base and go for major development drive with inclusive growth.

It should spur us into action rather than inaction. I only hope PC does what is expected to be done.

[jaibhim]

It is crucial to identify the elitist handlers and inflect closer scrutiny over the chattering elites, the stop we want peace peace activists, the smoking sexually alluring female jholawallahs[with jeans and fab india kurtas] and the entire delhi circuit and the frontal props apart from scanning the cyber world, keeping vigil on sympathisers who are preparing for the revolution, from as from as the IITs in the south to the JNU's and the other quango bodies who otherwise take sadistic pleasure in going to the extant of throwing the hot tea on poor Salim Ali or Kistaiah's face who are mere chaprasis [who do all the menial jobs] as the english speaking hegimony chiming activists quoting avidly from The second sex, who carry the weight fo the world draw up revolutionary plans [drawing room brhaminical marxists!]. The severe damage these propagandists inflict in irreparable. The maoists do not belong to the social strata of the tribals and it seems to me that the real control is in the cities and possibly with few powerful peace activists and their sympathisers in press. It appears that state has shot itself in the foot by, picking up a quarrel with gandhians and other people who want to work constitutionally. It is urgent that a multi-pronged multilayered bottom up strategy where governance and cancellation of the liecences given illegally is at the central measure apart from good corruption free governance whilst ensuring that the forces are well fed and equipped and the injured[heard rending story of a jawan from anatapur whose father was landless labourer] and dead are compensated handsomely{let Indias corporates ensure that they have a fighting chance to live or that their poor widows can bring up their children, thought ought to go at bridging the inequality by working towards a scnadenavean model where ofcourse there is little or no corruption which means no leakage] is evolved and that there is less ee haw we'll smoke-em-out texan talk but more action.

[chaanakya]

TV news channels are reporting that only Home ministry will only issue statements in Maoists or such other actions, not by heads of various agencies.
This is a right step to reduce confusion and ensure that only single voice is projected.

[Viv S]

Look at the timeline : 1963[break between Mao and USSR]-1965[Indo-Pak war]-1967[rearrangement of power relations within PRC after the Cultural Rev]-1969[end of first phase of cultural rev/first Left Front govs] -1971[Naxals start off -BD war of liberation]-1973[Mao-Nixon meet the previous year - withdrawal from Vietnam in Paris accord]-1975[BD coup/Mao ill and dies next yesr/Deng begins to reappear/Naxals begin to suffer reversals and are practically wiped off from WB]-1977[IG "punished"]. Things happen more or less with a regular pattern.

At the time the international "states" toyed with the idea of "Maoists"as a tool, but abandoned them when they could come to direct alliances and inroads with the powers that be.

It honestly a little fuzzy to me. I'm sure foreign pressures balances play a role, its the domestic scenario that has usually been the dominant factor. Also, in the post-Cold War world, the Maoists idealogy doesn't find many takers globally.

So it is not only a question of Indian state vs Maoists, but Indian state vs non-Indian states+Maoists. It then is new set of equations as to whose resources are greater and whose patience is longer.

IMHO its non-idealogical, support from our friends to the north and west to further their own agendas that's a bigger likelihood. But, given the practical (geographic mainly) hurdles, that isn't a major worry. Also even during Khaleda Zia's time, support to Naxals wasn't substantial at all(NE groups are a different question).

[Viv S]

I tend to agree with the above analysis. Infinite patience lulling Govt into inaction ( especially when bristling forces would be raring for major strike against maoists) smacks of pseudo-intellectual support from so called neutral sources. This is more dangerous that RNDhoti Roi and jee nalayakha who romaticise maoists perfidy with tribal issues.

Patience is not to be confused to with inaction. In J&K for example, the Army didn't hold back offensives. Yet in the final analysis, the insurgency today is flagging because the military has been able to outlast the militancy. It look losses without backing down and today even the militants talk in terms of 'reviving a dead horse' with respect to the insurgency.

It should spur us into action rather than inaction. I only hope PC does what is expected to be done.

IMO he's more likely to do what is necessary than most of his peers across the political spectrum.

[ASPuar]

You can't pass the buck, PC

Im not very impressed with Shri Chidambarams record in office thus far. MJ Akbar seems to agree. Sure, hes better than Shivraj Patil, but thats not saying much. So far, he has used his sophistry to increase the Size of the CPOs enormously, and garner a much bigger budget. But he seems to have no vision for this expansion, and it seems largely symbolic.

Mr Chidambaram, time to step up to the plate, and earn the trust of the people you lead, and the people you protect!

[brihaspati]

Viv S wrote
It honestly a little fuzzy to me. I'm sure foreign pressures balances play a role, its the domestic scenario that has usually been the dominant factor. Also, in the post-Cold War world, the Maoists idealogy doesn't find many takers globally.

I did not say ideology was the only determining factor. What I wanted to illustrate by the timeline was that the 60's was and attempt by Mao to show to the west that he was charting out independently from the Soviets and was on the world "market" for "buying and selling" of power as a separate entity. In Cold War situation, India was practically a reluctant battelfield for proxy wars between the west and USSR. My hunch is that the 1962 war with India came as a testing probe by Mao as to how much the two contestants of the Col War would move to block his "global career".

Because they did not do much, Mao recognized this as a sign of US weakness and for the moment turned his attention to tackling his domestic critics - Liu Shao Qi and Deng [then a much junior mouthpiece]. The Naxalites gained some initial success because of the then ongoing turmoil within Congress and the "change of generations" conflict as played through IG, but also because of encouragement from the Chinese. It is not unlikely that at this time the Naxalites could have got some "encouragement" from the secret services of the west as well. But Mao's main encouragement to the Naxalites would be a way of sending another message to the West that he was ready to play ball outside his dominions and that the USA should treat him as an independent player and negotiate separately.

Secret emissaries [with the usual notorious suspect] began negotiating for a USA-Mao summit early in 70-71. Once the meeting was over and direct buyer-seller relations were established between Mao and the USA, it would be natural to expect a cooling off of covert Chinese ardour for the Naxals. USSR would not support the Naxals, nor would USA feel any need to do so. The "punishment"of IG in 77 was for going against the pet-Sunni-boy POGWI in 71. But Naxals anyway would not have any support.

What has changed now from 77, is the fact that India has shown elements capable of thinking independent of the west and going against China if needed. Both the west and PRC will now have an interest in reviving the Maoists in India. Did anything prevent the "white Christian" Americans from helping "dark Muslim" Jihadis against third countries? So a "capitalist" USA or UK can still encourage the "communist Maoists" as a means of weakening the Indian rashtra and keep its elite pliable. If Chinese and western interests coincide - why not?

I dont think we should make the mistake of seeing apparent realpolitik as evidence of complete absence of ideological motivations. The very fact that capitalist/white/Christian West could not think of India as a natural ally and consistently chose Jihadis or Maoists as more preferable, comes from ideology - the innate hatred and fear of the "pagan Hindu" and its predominant "mud race". So explot every fissure you can find in that "body" to try and destroy it forever.

[Viv S]

What has changed now from 77, is the fact that India has shown elements capable of thinking independent of the west and going against China if needed. Both the west and PRC will now have an interest in reviving the Maoists in India. Did anything prevent the "white Christian" Americans from helping "dark Muslim" Jihadis against third countries? So a "capitalist" USA or UK can still encourage the "communist Maoists" as a means of weakening the Indian rashtra and keep its elite pliable. If Chinese and western interests coincide - why not?

By virtue of residing within the Indian hinterland, any practical external assistance to the Maoists in terms of tangible material is very unlikely. That said, while China and India are rivals, I see no reason why the US or UK would attempt to destabilize India.

I dont think we should make the mistake of seeing apparent realpolitik as evidence of complete absence of ideological motivations. The very fact that capitalist/white/Christian West could not think of India as a natural ally and consistently chose Jihadis or Maoists as more preferable,.

Well after Independence, India had the pick of alliances. Both Nehru and Indira Gandhi for all their professed love for non-alignment were idealogically closer to Soviet Union, and chose to forge closer ties with it.

comes from ideology - the innate hatred and fear of the "pagan Hindu" and its predominant "mud race". So explot every fissure you can find in that "body" to try and destroy it forever

[Virupaksha]

By virtue of residing within the Indian hinterland, any practical external assistance to the Maoists in terms of tangible material is very unlikely. That said, while China and India are rivals, I see no reason why the US or UK would attempt to destabilize India.

VivS,
Read up on the purulia air drop. Which countries were involved? Which countries were involved in making sure that the scum do not get arrested and were released? Read up on whose baby Hurriyat Conference actually is.

All your rosy eyes of US and UK will dissappear.

[brihaspati]

Viv S wrote
By virtue of residing within the Indian hinterland, any practical external assistance to the Maoists in terms of tangible material is very unlikely. That said, while China and India are rivals, I see no reason why the US or UK would attempt to destabilize India.

Now its my turn to be "shocked" Apart from the small question of sophisticated arms appearing in the hands of extremists from a long long time - including those in NE, especially the types of arms that can only be products of national weapons industry under the control of the defence forces of that country. Our borders are mostly porous- as far as weapons and ammunitions are concerned. I think PC, our redoutable HM has alraedy made a remark on the lines of "there are weapons markets everywhere, arms can be bought there and brought into the country". Even at the height of "state" action on Naxals, a group visited Mao and one of them had a picture taken in a group with Mao. They then returned to India. On being requested for permission to take a picture - Mao is said to have replied "kha yi".

Destabilization is not attemped as an end in itself. Typical western shortsightedness thinks that even if unleashed Jihad - be it Islamist or the Maoist type - will be controllable like trained dogs. This was how they started on Jihad during WWI to bring down the Ottomans. Again, to overthrow regimes they did not like in ME - like in Iraq to install the Baathists. Same goes for various POGWI's and BD govs. That was the same in AFG. They never realize what they are unleashing and what it will do in the end, because of their ideological obsessions. You can never find any other explanations when you really explore to the last details - it is not realpolitik in the end, it is a distinctive ideological straightjacket. A complex mix of racial and religious fanatic obsessions.

Well after Independence, India had the pick of alliances. Both Nehru and Indira Gandhi for all their professed love for non-alignment were idealogically closer to Soviet Union, and chose to forge closer ties with it.

Actually this is quite murky and hazy. Will be OT, so I will just request that may be you should look up on certain documents available from released portions of declassified docs by the US gov of the period. One particular from IG's time in the backdrop of the 71 war will be illustrative - which blackens out the identity of a source close to IG who apparently supplied the Americans with "reliable" info. It was not as if all avenues of "cooperation" were closed off. There were always two sides present in the Indian setup. So "non-aligned" practically meant trying hard not to "appear"favouring anyone when actually both lobbys were going at it full swing. Also, USSR came forward with easier terms on certain "heavy industry/construction" while USA did go forward with "food aid" stuff. Each had its problems - but we should not say that the gents [yes the second one too with trousers] deliberately ignored US overtures. USA constrained itself by leaning heavily on POGWI.

Quote:
comes from ideology - the innate hatred and fear of the "pagan Hindu" and its predominant "mud race". So explot every fissure you can find in that "body" to try and destroy it forever

Apologies if this was a shocker. Both terms appear on many websites, publications ranging from evangelists to race-crap mouthpieces based in the USA and UK. My last line was meant as : "So [for them the attitude is:] exploit every fissure you can find in that "body" [in the pagan Hindu society] to try and destroy it [the pagan Hindu] forever.

[Chinmayanand]

Aerial route blocked? Maoists are trained to blunt air strikes

[Viv S]

VivS,
Read up on the purulia air drop. Which countries were involved? Which countries were involved in making sure that the scum do not get arrested and were released?

So which countries were involved? Do elaborate.

Read up on whose baby Hurriyat Conference actually is.

All your rosy eyes of US and UK will dissappear.

While I don't have any rosy impression of US & UK, I don't see any evidence of a global conspiracy to destabilize India.

[Viv S]

Now its my turn to be "shocked" Apart from the small question of sophisticated arms appearing in the hands of extremists from a long long time - including those in NE, especially the types of arms that can only be products of national weapons industry under the control of the defence forces of that country.

Like?

Destabilization is not attemped as an end in itself. Typical western shortsightedness thinks that even if unleashed Jihad - be it Islamist or the Maoist type - will be controllable like trained dogs. This was how they started on Jihad during WWI to bring down the Ottomans. Again, to overthrow regimes they did not like in ME - like in Iraq to install the Baathists. Same goes for various POGWI's and BD govs. That was the same in AFG. They never realize what they are unleashing and what it will do in the end, because of their ideological obsessions. You can never find any other explanations when you really explore to the last details - it is not realpolitik in the end, it is a distinctive ideological straightjacket. A complex mix of racial and religious fanatic obsessions.

So what end are you referring to? What is the long term objective here?

Actually this is quite murky and hazy. Will be OT, so I will just request that may be you should look up on certain documents available from released portions of declassified docs by the US gov of the period. One particular from IG's time in the backdrop of the 71 war will be illustrative - which blackens out the identity of a source close to IG who apparently supplied the Americans with "reliable" info. It was not as if all avenues of "cooperation" were closed off. There were always two sides present in the Indian setup. So "non-aligned" practically meant trying hard not to "appear"favouring anyone when actually both lobbys were going at it full swing. Also, USSR came forward with easier terms on certain "heavy industry/construction" while USA did go forward with "food aid" stuff. Each had its problems - but we should not say that the gents [yes the second one too with trousers] deliberately ignored US overtures. USA constrained itself by leaning heavily on POGWI.

IG and Nehru were always close to the USSR. The USSR officially backed India's position on Kashmir and Goa as far back as 1955. At a strategic level relations with the US never had much hope of getting off the ground thanks to the zero-sum equations of the time.

Apologies if this was a shocker. Both terms appear on many websites, publications ranging from evangelists to race-crap mouthpieces based in the USA and UK. My last line was meant as : "So [for them the attitude is:] exploit every fissure you can find in that "body" [in the pagan Hindu society] to try and destroy it [the pagan Hindu] forever. z

Every country has its share of right-wing nutters including our own. And they're usually irrelevant to foreign policy.

[Virupaksha]

http://origin.election.rediff.com/news/ ... /22kol.htm
http://www.kashmirherald.com/profiles/hurriyat.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purulia_arms_drop_case

Peter Bleach, too, was released on 4 February 2004, via a presidential pardon, allegedly due to persistent British pressure.
The crew of the aircraft consisted of five Latvian citizens and Peter Bleach, a British citizen Peter and an ex Special Air Service operative and British intelligence officer who was based in Yorkshire and involved in arms dealing

http://www.flonnet.com/fl2104/stories/2 ... 313400.htm

Bleach himself always maintained that he had all along kept the British intelligence posted about the armsdrop.

[Viv S]

Peter Bleach, too, was released on 4 February 2004, via a presidential pardon, allegedly due to persistent British pressure.
The crew of the aircraft consisted of five Latvian citizens and Peter Bleach, a British citizen Peter and an ex Special Air Service operative and British intelligence officer who was based in Yorkshire and involved in arms dealing

I've read that before. I'm looking for evidence of countries being involved. He isn't the first SAS trooper to become a mercenary in civilian life nor will he be the last.

http://www.flonnet.com/fl2104/stories/2 ... 313400.htm
Bleach himself always maintained that he had all along kept the British intelligence posted about the armsdrop.

I would have maintained the same thing in his place.

[pgbhat]

I've read that before. I'm looking for evidence of countries being involved. He isn't the first SAS trooper to become a mercenary in civilian life nor will he be the last.

Plausible deniability is not just a Paki trait.

I would have maintained the same thing in his place.

You are of course free to believe in whatever you want to....

[Viv S]

I've read that before. I'm looking for evidence of countries being involved. He isn't the first SAS trooper to become a mercenary in civilian life nor will he be the last.

Plausible deniability is not just a Paki trait.

I'm not speculating. Instances of ex-SAS(as well as from regular forces) personnel entering the mercenary business were common even before the Simon Mann fiasco. And seeing the astronomical payouts, I'm not surprised. Even today they dominate the PMC business. http://www.sandline.com/hotlinks/Economist-Baghdad.html

You are of course free to believe in whatever you want to....

Well there isn't any evidence to suggest that the Purulia arms drop was masterminded by the SIS for some obscure purpose.

[suryag]

Lok Satta leader JayaPrakash Narayan's attack on naxal(in telugu though)

[Muppalla]

Lok Satta leader JayaPrakash Narayan's attack on naxal(in telugu though)

suryag garu,
long time. Where have you been?