The Red Menace

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ASPuar
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by ASPuar »

Pranav wrote:

Here a deeper exploration of the possible disconnect between the dynasty and PC.

Dealing With Maoists: MMS-Sonia Rift?

That there are differences in the Congress party over how to handle the Maoist/Naxal insurgency is not a secret. But the recent flurry of public statements and press-releases have Delhi's gossip circles abuzz about how the PM and the home minister on the one hand and the Congress President Sonia Gandhi and her son, Congress General Secretary Rahul Gandhi, on the other, are not on the same page regarding the strategy to be adopted against the Maoists/Naxals. That the BJP firmly backed the home minister adds further grist to the mills.

Exhibit 1: No statements from Gandhis

As R. Jagannathan put it in the DNA:

Given the extremely secretive nature of the Manmohan Singh-Sonia-Rahul Gandhi interface, it is not possible to conclusively prove this, but it is reasonable to presume that Sonia is not actively backing the government in its anti-Maoist campaign.

We certainly haven’t heard a single Sonia statement on Maoism that backs the official stand of her government. At best we have had non-descript statements deploring violence — something similar to what the human-rightswallahs mumble when confronted with the latest Maoist atrocities. In her last statement before the Jharkhand polls, Sonia said “there is no place for violence in a democracy” — a motherhood statement at best. Her son Rahul blamed non-Congress governments for the Maoist violence, neatly deflecting the issue. More here http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/main-ar ... nt_1368625 .

Exhibit 2: Controversy over public statements by the service chiefs

Take the recent controversy over whether or not the Army and Air Force chiefs should be making public statements (or airing personal views (http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/main-ar ... nt_1368625)) about the advisability or otherwise of using the defence forces in anti-insurgency operations against the Maoists.

For instance, as a well-argued blog-post points out:

All decisions related to employment of security forces — whether internally or externally — are political decisions, taken after inputs of all government agencies and executed by the security forces of the State. When service chiefs speak out of turn publicly — even unintentionally — they sway public opinion and constrain the government in its decision making. Thus, it is often considered imprudent for the service chiefs to express themselves publicly and unduly influence the political decision-making process of the government.

Under Mr. Antony’s watch as the Defence Minister — starting from the Pay commission fracas, one-rank-one-pension issue, and recently the Sukhna land controversy — the civil-military relations in the country have come under a great strain. It must be said that Mr. Antony seems to be singularly incapable of maintaining this delicate balance of civil-military relations. Mr. Antony has no choice now but to read out the riot act to the service chiefs so that these mistakes are not repeated. More here http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/20 ... ust-speak/ .

However, in Byzantine Delhi, conspiracy theorists point out that the very fact that such statements from the service chiefs have been made -- and particularly that they have not been one-off occurrences but are being repeated -- means that they have the go-ahead from civilian authority (read Defence Minister).

The Defence Minister is of course considered a Gandhi family loyalist.

Exhibit 3: The Home Ministry Statements

Earlier, the army chief's statement that "internal deficiencies, which may be in their training or some other things" had led to the Dantewada massacre was joined issue with by the home minister and his ministry. While the home minister said, "please do not be disrespectful to the jawans. Please do not be disrespectful to our forces", his ministry came out with a release saying, "The Army has trained 10 Battalions of CRPF, 10 Battalions of BSF and 5 Battalions of ITBP prior to their induction in naxal-affected States.

Exhibit 4: The Cabinet Secretary's Note

Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrashekhar is said to have written to all Ministers and Secretaries on Saturday making it clear that only the Home Ministry would speak on internal security issues as it is the nodal ministry (http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?679290). Not that it stopped the IAF chief from once again expressing his "personal views" today (http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?679240).

http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.a ... 0&pid=2230
The "Pragmatic" blog is a known services baiter, and its opinion is often biased and nuanced in a deliberately misleading manner. The fact of the matter is, that it is the DUTY of the service chiefs to sway the opinion of the government, in the light of their PROFESSIONAL opinion, which is informed by the military apparat. It is axiomatic that Govt opinion on security matters should be guided by the advice of the security professionals, and not inexperienced bureaucrats.

If injustice was done by the pay commission, it is the bounden duty of the service chiefs to speak against it. And far from being "angry" with the service chiefs, the most voluble of them on the pay commission matter, Admiral Mehta, was sent as an ambassador after retirement, despite the bureaucrats wet dreams which they conveyed through leaks that he was "told off".

Finally, the Cabinet secretary is a government functionary, just like the service chiefs. The Cabinet Secretary and the service Chiefs are of equal status, as inter se government seniority is determined by pay scale, and the Service Chiefs are the only Govt officers of equal pay grade to the Cabinet Secretary. The CabSec is placed one spot higher than the services chiefs on the Warrant of Precedence, but that document is only for ceremonial use, and should not be mistaken for functional superiority, which is determined by pay grade. The chief of the Intelligence Bureau is placed several spots below Lieutenant Generals, and yet he is in the same pay grade as a Lieutenant General, and would find any allusions to the WoP laughable.

The cabinet secretary therefore cannot "Tell" the service chiefs what to do, only convey the wishes of the political leadership, which, it is evident, the political leadership can amply convey to them themselves.

If the Army chief says the CRPF has bungled, then if there was a problem, the DEFENCE MINISTER will tell him about it. The CabSec has no locus to do any such thing. And, as it seems that the Defence Minister has not done any such thing, it is evident that the conveyance of such a message is not the will of the government, merely that of a bureaucrat/ A section of the government.

There is one simple matter to be remembered. India is a republic, and within it, the armed forces have historicall, traditionally and correctly been at the service of the political leadership. The bureaucracy has tried to usurp the role of the political leadership at all points, and thus desperately wants the armed services to be subservient to it. Crying "coup" is just one of the many weapons in their arsenal to try and intimidate the forces. Alas, the real coup is being carried out by the civil servants, in their desperate bid to snatch power from the elected representatives of the people.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Anurag »

Rony wrote:Loksatta's Jayaprakash Narayan attack Maoism. Unlike other people, he attacks the ideology itself. It is in Telugu.
Just look at the Naxal ideologue VaravaraRao's face when JP attacks Maoism .
Can someone translate this please? I'd love to see how he dismisses the Maoist guy! Thanks in advance.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by shaardula »

Rony wrote:Loksatta's Jayaprakash Narayan attack Maoism. Unlike other people, he attacks the ideology itself. It is in Telugu.
Just look at the Naxal ideologue VaravaraRao's face when JP attacks Maoism .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMRoyDetz0Y
thanks. is their a complete program anywhere. who all spoke? thanks
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Nihat »

VenkataS
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by VenkataS »

Jayaprakash Narayan's attack on Varavara Rao and the Naxalite ideology needs to be heard by all Indians not just the Telugu speakers. Varavara Rao and his ilk who overtly support Naxalites/Maoists need to be effectively countered in public.

It is a perfect example of how an Indian politician should denounce the Naxalite ideology in public and in the process educate the common man.

It needs to be heard by all Indians. If someone can translate the speech correctly and add sub titles to the video it will get the attention it deserves.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Viv S »

Intelligence official claimed the Maoist plan was to attack the train near Mirzapur station on the UP-Jharkhand border. Kobad Ghandy was reportedly being taken to West Midnapore by Delhi police but was taken off the train in Allahabad after the tip off.

Ghandy was then taken to Cantt police station in Allahabad under heavy police security and put on a return train the next afternoon.
Darn it!!! This bollywood style plan deserved a bollywood style response. Without knowing the exact circumstances this is plain speculation, but IMO we should've set an ambush for them.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Gerard »

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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Muppalla »

Rony wrote:Loksatta's Jayaprakash Narayan attack Maoism. Unlike other people, he attacks the ideology itself. It is in Telugu.
Just look at the Naxal ideologue VaravaraRao's face when JP attacks Maoism .
It was excellent. It may be time consuming/effort to translate to English. I will try to put few lines that I think are good points. However, the message is in the punchline for which we need to traslate with all the equivalant idioms/pharases.

(1) If you use guns as solutions, there will be bigger guns and one with bigger guns will win. You guys will never win the so called revolution in order to help people. It is alway state that wins and there are no countires in the world that smaller guns had won. In the process a lot of normal population dies as collateral damage. He has taken the example of Combodia and how populations were wiped out in the name of revolution and the state they are currently living.

(2) As per both maoists and analysts government is non-existant in many maoist infested areas. What is the end result? Are Maoist who rule there are able to provide any better facilities to the people in their hand. Are there any schools or infrastructure or anything that are required for humans or to help humans provided? What are achievements of revolution so far? What are the developmental statistics achieved by the maoists?

(3) It is understable the system is not running in the way it is helpful to the population. For that one we need to reduce corruption and for reducing it we need to educate people so that they choose better leaders.

(4) We have a system where we have structure in the form of elections and vote using which we can change the system. Guns means bigger guns will come and the one with bigger guns will win.

No doubt he is an excellent orator and his area of knowledge is governance etc and hence he excelled.

I have a serious issue with know Naxalaites like Varavara Rao coming on live TV using the systems of democracy for those who do not beleive in any system other than violence in the form of so called " revolution ".
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by suryag »

No doubt he is an excellent orator and his area of knowledge is governance etc and hence he excelled.
Ahh a rare word of praise for JP from Mupalla Garu. It was really hardhitting and you should see the face of varavara rao in that video, his posture somehow was conveying his "righteousness". Mupalla Garu since when have these guys varavara rao, gaddar, hargopal been in business?
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Muppalla »

suryag wrote: Ahh a rare word of praise for JP from Mupalla Garu. It was really hardhitting and you should see the face of varavara rao in that video, his posture somehow was conveying his "righteousness". Mupalla Garu since when have these guys varavara rao, gaddar, hargopal been in business?
:)
I never doubted JP's knowledge. I am not so sure about his intentions and I am still not sure. His thoughts about National security were too vague and he is associated with a lot of left orgs. I even provided the links in the election threads. In a TV interview after Hyd blasts, someone asked his reaction and he bluntly said "I will not call the perpetrators as terrrorists." I hope it is all immaturity. There are lot of stories about him. Who does not have anyway. Also, see their over reaction when TDP made certain statements about JP during Greater-HYD elections. JP lost badly in that election even from very educated areas.

However, he is very articulte in this round and may be he is seeing things more clear now and not just "governance and corruption".

Coming back to the question about varavara rao et al, I guess they are in business even before anyone in this forum are born. They are there since the first Naxal was created. They were arrested several times. They used to go underground several times however smart folks and never got encountered. Disgraceful part is now a days they are almost on TV every week. Imagine we mourn here and also the imagine the family members mourning in their homes the death of police folks and during the same time these idiots come on TV and make supporting statements about the killers.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Sachin »

Viv S wrote:Darn it!!! This bollywood style plan deserved a bollywood style response.
Amen. But perhaps the intelligence leak could have been made so that naxalites did not actually carry out this attack and harm the poor passengers and the railway running staff manning the train. Better to let these criminals know that their leader is not in train, rather than to allow them to attack the train.

But if the exact location of the ambush was known, then the police (armed and trained) should have reached the scene earlier and given a "warm welcome" to the ambush party.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by sugriva »

If it all the maovandalists are backing NREGA, then it is to skim off the money directly from the panchayats that are in those parts largely in their control. IMVHO govt should simply stop giving out cash payments for NREGA in those areas. Period. Voluntary organizations and district administration should provide cooked midday meals, utensils, clothes etc for the labour provided. Under no circumstances should rice/wheat bags be given out. If it is done it will all go into feeding the kamrades of the maoist killing machine.
Last edited by sugriva on 14 Apr 2010 21:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Anindya »

Sugriva - You're right...

Actually the data for the Naxal-NREGA link is there – if you see the following telegraph article…

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100409/j ... 320570.jsp

the quote is: “Who funds Maoists? The govt”

[New Delhi, April 8: Ironic and incredible though it may sound, a chunky portion of funds for Maoists comes from the government and its related agencies. The Maoist milch cow, especially in south Chhattisgarh, is the NREGS, the government’s pet mass welfare project.

There is no established estimate of the quantum of the Maoist heist on rural employment guarantee funds, but a top officer in Raipur guessed it could be as high as 70 per cent. “It’s simple,” he said, “NREGS funds flow directly to sarpanches and most of them in Bastar are either backed by Maoists or dominated by them, it’s ready cash for them.”

The NREGS is currently on an expanded budget — up a Rs 1,000 crore from the Rs 39,100 crore granted by the Centre last year — conservative estimates are that nearly 40 per cent of that kitty is flowing into Maoist-dominated areas, which also happen to be some of the country’s most backward and poverty-ridden.
The Union minister for rural development, C.P. Joshi, has often helplessly admitted to a Maoist paw on NREGS funds; his officials, though, have not tabulated the extent of its grab.

“It’s tough to do that,” said one, “we know that there are other sources of leak, such as local corruption, but it can safely be said that in states like Chhattisgarh, a substantial amount of NREGS funds are literally looted away by Maoists.”

Extortion, the officer held, remains a major provider to Maoist coffers, but increasingly they have come to rely on siphoning off development funds. “Look at the bitter twist of it from our point of view: development is prescribed as the essential antidote to Maoists, and yet funds meant for development are helping them expand.”

Asked if the government could do nothing to plug the leak, he retorted sardonically: “Stop development, that’s one way to starve the Maoists.”

Maoist leaders themselves are open about what they call “utilising” development funds. ….]
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by arun »

Pranav wrote:
vera_k wrote:But isn't it an issue of political will?

Dynasty vs government
Here a deeper exploration of the possible disconnect between the dynasty and PC.
Dealing With Maoists: MMS-Sonia Rift?

That there are differences in the Congress party over how to handle the Maoist/Naxal insurgency is not a secret. But the recent flurry of public statements and press-releases have Delhi's gossip circles abuzz about how the PM and the home minister on the one hand and the Congress President Sonia Gandhi and her son, Congress General Secretary Rahul Gandhi, on the other, are not on the same page regarding the strategy to be adopted against the Maoists/Naxals. That the BJP firmly backed the home minister adds further grist to the mills. ……………………..

http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.a ... 0&pid=2230
Possibly more of the same battle?

Digvijay Singh, General Secretary of the AICC authors an article in the Economic Times.

In the article Digvijay Singh takes a potshot at his fellow Congress Party member, Home Minister P. Chidambaram, on policy towards the Maoist / Naxalite terrorists. Digvijay Singh claims off course that his potshot at his fellow Congress Party member is “personal”.

Rethink counter-Maoist strategy: Digvijay Singh to P Chidambaram
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Maoist Challenge: The Party shall be over! ---- P. V. Ramana
The highest leadership of the Maoists today were, during those years, the field-commanders (local leaders), who built the outfit. Polit Bureau (PB) Member Malla Raji Reddy, who was arrested in Kerala and later escaped bail in November/December 2009, was one such person. Kishanji –– Mallojula Koteswara Rao –– who is in the news presently for leading the movement in Lalgarh, West Bengal, was another key person. His brother is Mallojula Venugopal alias Bhupathi alias Sonu, the present PB in-charge of Dandakaranya Special Zone Committee (DKSZC), who was earlier Secretary of the DKSZC. The list is vast.
The hype generated in the media of an all-India offensive on the Naxalites raised the expectations of the people, and people are fickle minded with short memories.
The watch words are ‘patience’ and ‘silent work’. The sate and the people should be prepared for a few more Dantewada-like ‘shocks’ before the tables are eventually turned on the Maoists. There have been a number of wake-up calls, but, somehow, state response has left a lot to be desired. If at all a final wake-up call was needed, it came through the medium of the Chintalnar attack. The Union Government has clearly laid-out its approach –– ‘security and development’. The affected States would also need to join-in. This has, perhaps, just begun.

It is a matter of time before the party is over for the Maoists. In its totality, the Maoists are no match for the Indian state and it is eminently possible to make them wind-up their business of macabre killings, wanton destruction and irresponsible actions.
http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/MaoistC ... ana_130410
The recent recovery of a cache of Maoists’ arms near West Godavari district points to change in strategy of rebels, who are now choosing thickly populated areas as their hideouts, a top police official said.
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/states/an ... 396926.ece
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by RamaY »

This must have been discussed earlier...

I see a strong correlation between Naxal activity/violence and non-INC governed states. The same states become peaceful when INC is in power. How true is this hypothesis?
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Pranav »

arun wrote:
Possibly more of the same battle?

Digvijay Singh, General Secretary of the AICC authors an article in the Economic Times.

In the article Digvijay Singh takes a potshot at his fellow Congress Party member, Home Minister P. Chidambaram, on policy towards the Maoist / Naxalite terrorists. Digvijay Singh claims off course that his potshot at his fellow Congress Party member is “personal”.

Rethink counter-Maoist strategy: Digvijay Singh to P Chidambaram

Yes, here are excerpts from a good Rediff article analyzing how Digvijay could not have done what he did without the approval of Sonia and Rahul:
Has the buck finally stopped for Chidambaram?
April 14, 2010 16:43 IST

Digvijay Singh's indictment of Home Minister P Chidambaram's strategy seems to be a preamble to the party's stance on Maoists which will differ from the government's plan, says Sheela Bhatt.

Has the Congress lost trust in its own home minister?

It seems so.

In a sensational column written by All India Congress Committee general secretary Digvijay Singh in a financial daily on Wednesday, Home Minister P Chidambaram has been cut to a thousand pieces. He has been called arrogant, a man opting for 'a narrow sectarian view' on the Maoist issue, and a minister who does not take into consideration the people living in the affected areas while formulating a strategy to tackle the Left-wing extremists.

.....

The massacre of CRPF's 62 Battalion has shaken the nation. Even Left-wing liberals have condemned the violence but not even a single-line statement has come from power-to-be Rahul Gandhi or the de-facto power behind the throne in New Delhi, Sonia Gandhi.

Singh's column cannot be viewed in isolation. He is a veteran and a wily politician, and it would be naive to believe that Singh wrote the column without the knowledge of the Gandhi family.

The Congress party has merely asked Digvijay Singh to not air his views publicly. "Congress is a democratic party. Every one has the right to express his or her views, but such views should be expressed within the party forums only," AICC general secretary in-charge and media department chief Janardhan Dwivedi said.

There was no vociferous denial of the charges against Chidambaram, so it can be construed that -- albeit a bit late and indirectly -- the first family and their party have finally and forcefully spoken on the nation's 'greatest security threat.'
Also, some interesting tidbits about IPL:

For the moment, forget the ongoing melodrama over Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor. After all, Tharoor is just a pawn in the bigger war in the battlefield of cricket between Nationalist Congress Party chief Sharad Pawar and the Congress where the BJP has thrown its weight behind Pawar.

The Indian Premier League is a successful brand that has caught the imagination of young Indians whom Rahul Gandhi wants to represent in the coming years. Surely, a kitty of Rs 15,000 crore and the aspirations of the Indian youth are irresistible attractions for politicians of all parties. The Congress wants Pawar to lose vital control over organs that spew mega bucks and define the dreams of young Indians: but then that's a long-term goal.

The Tharoor drama is a short-term thriller. It is all about money, money and more money. The larger issues of the nation have nothing to do with it.

The plight of Tharoor or his lady friend will not disturb Prime Minister Singh once the MoS scores a couple more self-goals to die a natural political death. But the devastating column by Digvijay Singh should be read carefully by Chidambaram to understand where the buck stops, finally.

http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/apr/ ... mbaram.htm
I think there are two factors at play here - the first is that PC is obviously far superior to Rahul Gandhi and that is intolerable for the dynasty.

Secondly, the Maoists are an integral part of plans of western elites to cripple India. The extensive international links have been discussed before on this thread. Therefore, the Maoists have generally been protected at the highest level.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Nalla Baalu »

Attached is translation of the excellent take of JPN on 'Maoist Ideology' from video (in telugu) posted earlier by user 'Rony'. Most of the comments in brackets are mine.

Do you need guns for health-care? Do you need guns for livelihood?
It is fact that our system of governance is spoilt. There are very few critics of governance in our country and I am one of them. But this is our government, established by us using our right-to-vote. We may be stupid, we may lack maturity, it is a fact that our politics is ridden with dishonesty, it is a fact that country is rampantly being looted. But if you feel 'gun' is the solution, there will be a bigger gun to counter it. Eventually the biggest 'gun' will be victorious. Now, who in the country wields biggest gun, the government. What is the meaning of government? It the one with final writ and whose writ cannot be countered. Now, whoever has this final writ will be victorious.

Is this the solution (use of guns) that we are suggesting now? Is this valid for year of 2010? This ideology, over last 70-80 years, failed in most of countries that adopted it. It is extinct except for places like North Korea and few other god-foresaken countries. And you claim to kindle 'revolution' with this? How prepostorous?
(Makes a reference to the deliberations until then) 70-80 people, left on this mission for their livelihood, their monthly salary, their job. They did not know anything (possibly making reference to nuances of ideology). They could have been children of anyone of us. You snuffed out all those lives in one moment. And you do not regret any of that! Is this not wrong? Is this an ideology? Having begun in the past as romantic-sacrificialsim (JPN's term), this ideology is now, lost, meaningless, dis-oriented, with 'gun' in hand is acting per its whim/fancy. We say this is revolution and are referring to it using different types of statements.

Certainly, there are issues in government. But, as long as, people wield the power to reform, have right-to-vote, have liberty to deliberate on issues like this, - government has not stopped us from deliberating on this issue, has it? You are telecasting this live. How many in the world have these rights? Will they (possibly in references to 'red' countries) ever give rights for live-telecasts? If given, will it ever be utilized? -, as long as we have our liberties, nobody can claim that 'gun' is their birth-right! There cannot be, should not be a such right. If there were to be such right, there will be bigger 'guns' to counter it. 'Guns' have always resulted in destruction of good people. Same 'guns', in asia, in Combodia, went berserk. The same ideology went berserk, what was the result? One-third of the population got massacred. The first to go were the kids, then the elder kids, the women, the the ones with softer palms, the bespectacled (like you, he points to men in front of him) were condemned as educated and killed and finally the head of the household was killed. Is this the ideology?

You claim such rudder-less, antiquated philosphy to be the solution, how can it be? How can it be the solution to the problem, gentleman? State of the county is terrible, that is a fact. Government should be moral. Government should have an order. That is what the constitution says. Are these folks ( possibly referring to red-flag bearers) more patriotic than the creators of the constition, freedom-flighters? Have they achieved any higher zen, perception or greatness? Is that why they are shooting away people? Without seeing what is right or wrong? Whether person being shot-at is related or un-related? And all in the name of 'collateral damage'.

If the government was dedicated this would not have happened. Not, if it has worked over last 60 years. No doubt about that. If Chidambaram or someone else, with wee-bit of common-sense, will realize that this cannot be resolved by policies at national-level, but at state-level. As our consitution originally set-out to do, if we were to resolve that, governance is devolved to the lowest level of district or gram-panchayat (devoid of dishonesty), the electoral process is reformed, there will be no problems. But this (possibly referring to the issue at hand) cannot be solution to these problems. Solution to these problems is enlightenment of people, their vote.

As far as I know, there hasn't been single instance where Maoists have fought for education or health-care or managed to achieve them. You want every resource for yourself! Yes, you need resources, but uptill a limit. But if you were to claim that every resource (he makes reference, to 'Jal-Jungle-Jamel(?)'), no country in the world will progress. You will have to divide world into a lakh. Each one of them will fight or kill over these resources. So, we need both peace and justice. What do you need first? Seed or Tree? There cannot be justice without peace. There cannot be longterm peace without justice. These two have to meet/unite at some point. But if you were to insist that there will not be peace, until justice is served, you can wield your 'guns' and government will counter it with bigger 'guns'. The mightier of the two will win at cost of people caught in cross-fire. What is being done is destruction of populace. People are being killed, in ruse of fight for their benefit.

Maoists have had foot-hold for 40 years, why are adivasi lives the way they are? There are umpteen reports from experts, govt. and maoists that government has been dysfunctional over last 60-years. But why is nothing being accomplished where maoists are the government. Maoists are levying taxes, seek money, but is anything happening? Why? Is this the solution? How can it be? Solution to deficient procedures are robust-capable procedures. Solution to dishonest rule/politics is honest governance/politics. 'Gun' will never be the solution. It (referring to 'gun') is part of the problem. It is the problem. No doubt about it.

Rony wrote:Loksatta's Jayaprakash Narayan attack Maoism. Unlike other people, he attacks the ideology itself. It is in Telugu.
Just look at the Naxal ideologue VaravaraRao's face when JP attacks Maoism .

[youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oMRoyDetz0Y&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oMRoyDetz0Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]
Last edited by Nalla Baalu on 14 Apr 2010 23:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by brihaspati »

Regarding Digvijay and PC and the dynasty : yes DS could not have spoken without some prompting. But that prompting was not about "finally waking up to the challenge of Maoism". The dynasty was always aware and perhaps more "aware" than the majority.

There are two things we should clearly understand:

(1) I have repeatedly tried to draw attention to the possibility that if PC goes ahead with his rather aggressive formal stance against the Maoists, he will be "reigned" in. Circumstances can 'develop" that puts PC on the backfoot. The outburst from DS should be seen in this light. It is not about rejecting PC. It is about forcing him to go slow, and not put up the "party" and its "dynasty" as associated with an aggressive strategy on the Maoists.

(2) The key problem is pehaps a human and family tragedy one. The dynasty has over the years learnt what it means to go seriously against extermist violence in India and its neighbourhood. The accummulated practical evidence as to the degree with which external agencies/entities/ can back up/penetrate Indian society and security protection rings - has made it very clear to at least one person in the dynasty - that if the dynasty is seen as going violently against extremist violence, the family will suffer personal tragedy again.

I have always maintained that we should honour the commitment to the "family" that the supposed "foreigner" has shown. It is a personal quality which is admirable in personal and private life. But it is this same admirable quality which is holding back the "leader" in the public domain.

The current holder of the family crown is being put into an impossible situation where the leader is being pulled into completely opposite directions. By doing so the party and the parasitic coterie is actually hampering national directiona and action against possibly coordinated action by external and internal entities against the nation.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by kittoo »

Nalla Baalu wrote:Attached is my translation of the excellent take of JPN on 'Maoists' from video (in telugu) posted earlier by user 'Rony'. Comments in brackets are mine.
Great translation. Read it and then watched the video. Could follow what he was saying for most of the part. Thanks.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by negi »

This dhakkan singh should be put out of his misery , low lifes such as him won't do nothing for the country and won't let others who get their hands dirty clean up the mess , the maoist/naxal problem has reached a level where judicious use of force has become necessary , D singh is merely playing petty politics as he did over the Batla house encounter nothing more nothing less.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Pranav »

negi wrote:This dhakkan singh should be put out of his misery , low lifes such as him won't do nothing for the country and won't let others who get their hands dirty clean up the mess , the maoist/naxal problem has reached a level where judicious use of force has become necessary , D singh is merely playing petty politics as he did over the Batla house encounter nothing more nothing less.
He seems to be basically a Sonia-loyalist with zero self-respect.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Suppiah »

Pranav, are you not repeating the same word two times? Sonia-dynasty loyalty and self respect don't go together. A complete and irreversible destruction of one is required to get the other.

As to be expected, Stalinist yellow daily has downplayed the whole saga...as if it is some academic topic. The whole affair along with earlier Nandigram and Singur saga's has created an interesting split in the mass murderer-rapist goon puppet cabal. The unity of purpose and close coordination of strategy seems gone, at least temporarily. Some fake intellectuals are now batting for the Nandigram rapist goons while some are with the Maoist murderers eye-gougers. Perhaps the former category are those that accepted cushy jobs at state cost, such as positions in JNU and other universities, thrown by powers that be. The latter category being those independently wealthy or those rejected or bypassed for favors..
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by skaranam »

Arun Jaitely reply to PC Statement and attack on Maoists Sympathizers (Half-a-Maoists)...
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Philip »

Exposed,PC's intimate links with VEDANTA,which explains his "crusade" aganist the Naxals!

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/bl ... 65362.html

If the report is true,allegations from a former it explains agreat deal.The company has loost many backers includng the Church of England,which had shares,because of its anti-people agenda in the exploitation of valuable land with huge bauxite reserves.

Excerpts:
Blatant efforts to wage a proxy war


M G Devasahayam : 15 Apr 2010

The Dantewada massacre took the lives of 76 CRPF jawans and caused a huge setback to the Union home ministry’s self-proclaimed ‘war on tribal terror’. It also portends a debilitating civil war unless humane governance replaces the gun-wielding ‘area-domination’ mindset in the heartland.

Union home minister P Chidambaram says something must have gone “drastically wrong” and orders an inquiry. Before finding out what went wrong, he discreetly suggests the use of air power against the Maoists: “At present there is no mandate to use the Air Force or any aircraft. But, if necessary, we will have to revisit the mandate to make some changes.” But the Air Force chief says: “Our training and weapons are meant for enemies across the border and to inflict maximum lethality. We cannot do this on our own people.” The army chief too says it is not wise to deploy the army against Naxalites. Defence minister A K Antony rules out direct deployment of armed forces.

Pushed on the back foot, Chidambaram offers to resign, which as expected is rejected by the prime minister. The BJP spokesperson says Chidambaram has been entrusted with the nation’s security and the responsibility is his. They want him to ‘face boldly the situation which has arisen.’ Their ally and Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar is more to the point. He wants Chidambaram to work more and speak less and control his ‘tone and tenor’.

As for Chidambaram,......... he tried to pass the buck to the state government. For good measure, he added that the Maoists were “cowards hiding in jungles” and fixed a three-year timeframe for their elimination. The Maoists hit back with a vengeance within 48 hours, butchering 76 security personnel. A rattled Chidambaram hurriedly termed the Maoists ‘savage’ as if the whole issued hinged on the adjectives he chose.

He did not even spare army chief general V K Singh who had said in good faith that the massacre was perhaps due to inadequate training and orientation. One need not be a top-notch commando, as the general was in his younger days, to say this. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of jungle warfare would say this a thousand times.

Why is the ‘calm, composed and competent’ darling of India’s neo-liberal media getting so worked up when it comes to tribals and unwashed Naxal-Maoists? Why does he brand well-meaning intellectuals and ideologues as Naxalite-extremists? Why have things gone so far as to make social activists lament that ‘in this country whoever tries to fight for justice, who talks about the poor, who brings up the issue of human rights, the government labels all of them as Naxal supporters’.

The answer lies in the mandate of Operation Green Hunt — to clear the tribal area of insurgent groups, hold the territory to ensure that Maoists can’t re-enter, and, finally, prepare the ground for development projects by ‘civilian agencies’. This is not a mandate for a counter-insurgency mission in the jungles where paramilitary forces are expected to ‘fight guerrillas like a guerrilla’ and not capture or hold territory.

Then for whom is this mandate intended? Obviously for the mining-MNCs who can build their industrial empires on this ‘captured’ territory. A look at the interests of the London-based MNC — Vedanta Resources plc, one of the world’s largest — gives enough clues. Of India’s total aluminium capacity of 1.3 million tonnes, Vedanta’s share is 3,85,000 tonnes. Its 5,00,000-tonne smelter in Orissa’s Jharsuguda is getting commissioned and the company will ultimately create 1.6 million tonnes of smelting capacity there, to be backed by a five million-tonne alumina refinery at Lanjigarh and a power complex of 3,750 MW. Its subsidiary, Balco’s capacity will be raised to one million tonnes.

In Lanjigarh alone Vedanta has access to bauxite deposits of 75 million tonnes and the government has promised an equally large deposit nearby. A five million tonne refinery is justified provided links to bauxite deposits lasting for about 50 years can be acquired. Orissa, where most of Vedanta’s aluminium action is to unfold, has an estimated 1.7 billion tonnes of the country’s total 3.3 billion tonnes of reserves. Vedanta says it has strong claims to free deposits because of the world’s single largest smelter it is committed to building at Jharsuguda.

If Vedanta has its way all this capacity will be on the ground by 2013. These reserves lie under the tribal forestland. It all depends whether Chidambaram can secure and deliver this land, a task he has taken upon himself and for the purpose declared a state-of-war.

The fact that Chidambaram had a close relationship with Vedanta raises serious concerns about the motive, agenda and mandate of this ‘war on tribal terror’. In 2003, he represented Sterlite Industries (a group company) before the Bombay High Court, when it faced charges of avoiding customs duties and tax evasion. Shortly afterwards, Chidambaram became a director on the board of Vedanta and only surrendered this job on May 22, 2004 — a day before taking up the position of finance minister at the Centre.

With an orchestrated neo-liberal media baying for ‘full-scale war’, area-domination operations have restarted. This time around it is the commandos of the Special Action Force who have been specially trained to fight Naxals. And the tribals are fleeing their villages. The question is: With such a blatant and high-level ‘conflict of interest’ does the home ministry have any moral authority to pursue this proxy-war?

(The writer is a retired IAS officer)
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Hari Seldon »

BJP for united fight against Maoists, slams Congress
NEW DELHI: The opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Thursday called for "a united fight to defeat Maoists" but accused the Congress of forging an alliance with the Leftist guerrillas for electoral gains - an allegation that triggered ugly scenes and disruptions in the Lok Sabha.

BJP and Congress MPs were caught in an ugly row over the April 6 Dantewada massacre by Maoist rebels, prompting repeated adjournments of the house.

Members of the Lok Sabha, which resumed the budget session after a month-long break on Thursday, reassembled at 2pm following Speaker Meira Kumar's assurance that an objectionable part in BJP leader Yashwant Sinha's speech accusing the Congress of allying with Maoists would be removed.

Sinha, a former finance minister, had initiated the debate on how to tackle Maoist terrorism and assured the government of the BJP's full support in the war against Left extremism.
The same thing sri Bji was alluding to the other day. These insurgencies besurgencies can't survive 30 yrs w/0 political understandings with 'mainstream' parties only.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Pranav »

Philip wrote:Exposed,PC's intimate links with VEDANTA,which explains his "crusade" aganist the Naxals!

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/bl ... 65362.html

If the report is true,allegations from a former it explains agreat deal.The company has loost many backers includng the Church of England,which had shares,because of its anti-people agenda in the exploitation of valuable land with huge bauxite reserves.
This report reveals a lot by what it does not say - it does not talk about cannibalism, rape and torture by Maoists, blowing up of schools and phone towers, stealing of taxpayer funds, extortion etc.

Many of the Church orgs are in the business of harvesting souls or useful idiots on behalf of the super-rich elite families that own and control them (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... rg#p829909). Since when did they have any concern about the indigenous beliefs and culture of the tribals.

As far as I know Vedanta has been pretty transparent and legitimate about everything. There is definitely a need for tribals to be treated fairly, and for royalties to be used for the benefit of the people. But the agenda of the plutocrats that control Churches is to stifle economic development and monopolize the mineral wealth.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by skaranam »

Pranav wrote:
Philip wrote:Exposed,PC's intimate links with VEDANTA,which explains his "crusade" aganist the Naxals!

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/bl ... 65362.html

If the report is true,allegations from a former it explains agreat deal.The company has loost many backers includng the Church of England,which had shares,because of its anti-people agenda in the exploitation of valuable land with huge bauxite reserves.
This report reveals a lot by what it does not say - it does not talk about cannibalism, rape and torture by Maoists, blowing up of schools and phone towers, stealing of taxpayer funds, extortion etc.

The Church is in the business of harvesting souls or useful idiots on behalf of the super-rich elite families that own and control it. Since when did it have any concern about the indigenous beliefs and culture of the tribals.

As far as I know Vedanta has been pretty transparent and legitimate about everything. There is definitely a need for tribals to be treated fairly, and for royalties to be used for the benefit of the people. But the agenda of the plutocrats that control the Church is to stifle economic development and monopolize the mineral wealth.
Who is Shri M G Devasahayam?

Mr M.G. Devasahayam, IAS (retd.), Managing Trustee, Citizens’ Alliance for Sustainable Living (SUSTAIN), Chennai.

An infantry officer in the army (he participated in the Indo-Pak War of 1965), M G Devasahayam joined the IAS (Haryana Cadre). In 1985, he took voluntary retirement from the IAS and has since been in NGO work and, for a while, in politics. As Member of the High Power Committee on Agricultural Policies and Programmes that went into the issue of ‘‘transforming Agriculture into an Industry’’, he wrote the theme chapter. He also became closely associated with Mother Teresa and Jayaprakash Narayan (JP). He helped the Missionaries of Charity to set up the ‘Home for the abandoned and dying destitutes’ (Shanti-Dan) at the heart of Chandigarh and a sanctuary for lepers in the City’s outskirts. During the Emergency, when JP was jailed at Chandigarh, Devasahayam was the District Magistrate cum IG Prisons of the Union Territory and thus JP’s custodian. The relationship developed then continued until JP’s death.

His associations is with all the the standard bearers of Maoists and its sympathizers.
  • K.G.. Kannabiran, National President, PUCL, Hyderabad;
    Justice Rajinder Sachar, former chief Justice, Delhi High Court,
    Arundhati Roy, New Delhi,
    Pushkar Raj, General Secretary, PUCL;
    Pamela Philipose, Women's Feature Service;
    Swami Agnivesh, New Delhi;
    Prof. Amit Bhaduri, Professor Emeritus, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi;
    Rt Rev. P J Lawrence, Bishop of Church of South India, Diocese of Nandyal;
    Praful Bidwai, Columnist, New Delhi;
    Sumit Chakravorty, Editor, Mainstream Weekly, New Delhi;
    Tapan Bose, New Delhi;
    Rita Manchanda, South Asia Forum for Human Rights, Nepal;
    Prof Kamal Mitra Chenoy, School of International Studies and President, JNU Teachers Association, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi;
    Ernest Deenadayalan, Bangalore;
    Pradip Prabhu, Kashtakari Sanghatana, Dahanu/Mumbai;
    Prashant Bhushan Advocate, Supreme Court, New Delhi;
    M.G. Devasahayam IAS (Retd), Chennai;
    Sukumar Murlidharan, Journalist, New Delhi;
    Rev. Dhyanchand Carr, Madurai;
    Henri Tiphagne, People's Watch, Madurai
    MSS Pandian, Chennai;
    Sushil Pyakurel, Former Commissioner, Human Rights Commission of Nepal, Kathmandu; Mubashir Hasan, Lahore, Pakistan
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^ Amazing what a little digging on the net can do, eh? The Maoist overgroundus, sham NGOs, EJs and their ilk don't seem to care only that their lies, deception, obfuscation, duplicity and modus operandi are becoming increasingly transparent to aam janta by the day. Wow, some pull and traction they must have with the powers that be. Truly children of greater (tfta) gods they be.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by ASPuar »

There is sadly no dearth of Naxal sympathisers in some of the civil services. They are infiltrated through JNU.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by RamaY »

^^^

Wish we can have a database pointing all these links...

need a good reference database... should look like mindmap but store in database and can be aggregated (metrics) ....

will do some ground work..
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Philip »

I am one for taking the hard line against the Naxals,have no sympathy for them whatsoever,as their brutality mirrors that of the alleged atrocities committed by local police and para forces.I also advocate the use of air powere against themattack helos the best tool,rather than saturation bombing.Typical of all guerilla outfits ,the Naxals will locate themselves amongst local tribals who will,either through sympathy or coercion,provide them with logistical help,food,etc.Collateral damage will be heavy as we are seeing in Af-Pak.This will bring the GOI into major embarrassment within and without the country.Therefore "surgical strikes" are required,and a carrot and stick policy should be adopted.One method is to bring together all leading tribal leaders in the various affected states and reassure them of state support in seeing that they get their fair share of any development boodle.There must be some transparency from the GOI on the issue as it is an acknowledged fact by all parties that the root cause of the matter,which the Naxals are using/abusing,is the theft of tribal/locals land by powerful entities.I posted earlier the case of how an ex-CM's wife was allegedly given the lease of land "acquired" by the local govt. from the villagers because it contained mineral wealth (limestone for cement)

The role of tainted NGOs and their supporters is well known.We have to expose their foreign backers if any.However,in the case of PC's links with Vedanta,it is a serious charge,he was a director and he has to clarify matters being in the position he is in now.As for the ranks of the A.Roy brigade,we just need to ignore them.Let us not give them "the oxygen of publicity".

We can't ignore however the efforts of the land mafia with their political backers (just look at what's happening in the Indian "Benami League" for example,which has besmirched the fair name of cricket),who want to grab forest land rich in mineral wealth for powerful MNCs.Vedanta is hugely controversial and is an international issue.That our HM has had the most intimate links to this mining giant is as controversial as Shashi Tharoor's own realtionship with the Kochi team financiers.Actually, if not more as he is pursuing the "war" against the Naxals! Is there a hidden agenda in his conduct?It is a legitimate question to ask and the media is asking it.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Pranav »

Philip wrote:Vedanta is hugely controversial and is an international issue.
Vedanta may be no saint but it has apparently complied with all norms. For some reason western elites have singled out Vedanta and have created the impression of a big controversy through their Churches and newspapers.

There is a general antipathy against all Indian industry, dams, resource extraction ventures etc, but the reasons for singling out Vedanta are unclear. Maybe because it gives them a stick with which to beat PC?
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Philip »

It's not a PC issue.The entire globe is rife with examples of massive mega projects destroying virgin forests,displacing indigenous peoples,creating environmental catastrophes.In Lanka in the '80s the Mahaveli dams project saw hundeds of sq. miles of virgin forest cut down,tens of thousands displaced and it resulted in silting of the reservoirs,colder climatic conditions,the return of malaria and never produced the hydel power intended.The Amazon basin has similar expriences and so too the Nile when the Aswan Dam was built,stopping the annual flooding of the Nile responsible for Egypt's fertile river valley civilisation.China has now realised that the Three Gorges Dam is a disaster too.We've had our own contoversies with Tehri,Narmada etc.

Big business demand mega projects as they can make mega bucks.They despise mini-hydel projects,repairing old tanks and reservoirs,and hunt for mineral wealth in remote regions which have small indigenous tribal populations who can be thrown out or "relocated" at will.Big Business and Big Govt. work together for the sake of "development".The tragedy is that our forest cover is fast depleting even without such mega projects thanks to urban sprawl,slash and burn cultivation and govts. worlwide have failed in protecting their most valuable rsourtce,their forests,whose disappearance have disastrous effects upon climate.An old planter once told me how he could see from his elevated hill top the clouds changing direction towards thickly forested hillsides instead of cleared planted land.

If development has to take place in such sensitive zones,they must be done very sensitively,without detriment to the natural resources which are the heritage of the entire country.It is a sad commentary that the undrepriviliged tribals have been neglected for decades after independence and their lands are now being greedily looked upon by Big Business.However,Naxalism as practised by the curent crop of Nxals is definitely not the answer and as most of the media have put it,is tantamount to war against the state and should be put down with extreme prejudice.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Pranay »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8622500.stm
The Dantewada killings may actually help the government's campaign - although the incident was a big setback for the authorities, it has been an even bigger public relations disaster for the rebels.
Photographs of wailing family members mourning the dead troops and burning funeral pyres, have touched a chord with many across India.

The rebels have lost out on the goodwill
Many of the dead soldiers were young men in their early twenties and many of them came from poor and underprivileged families. Some were reported to be the sole bread-winners for their family.
In a remote village in Chhattisgarh, the sister of a slain policeman appeared before local television cameras to challenge "the Maoist leaders to come and convince me about the cause they are fighting for".
She said she wanted to ask the rebels why they killed her brother, who was a poor Christian tribal - the same group of people the Maoists say they are fighting for
.
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Nihat »

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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Akshut »

Anyone in a mood to bang their heads against the wall, watch this interview of Ms. Roy.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2010 ... ust-agree/

Especially her answer to the "development of the economy" question. How is that dumb of a person considered to be an intellectual?
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Re: The Red Menace

Post by Singha »

zeenews:


Chattisgarh exploring legal options to book Arundhati Roy
Updated on Friday, April 16, 2010, 20:28 IST Tags:Arundhati Roy, Maoist, Naxal

Raipur: Chattisgarh Police is exploring legal options to book Arundhati Roy for a recent article in which she sympathises with Left Wing extremists.

"I have asked the legal experts to give their opinion and come up with a decision..," Director General of Police Vishwa Ranjan told PTI when asked about a complaint by Biswajit Mitra, a former BSP leader, who accused her of supporting naxals and demanded action against her.

Roy has come under criticism for her article on naxals -- "Gandhian with guns".

The Chief of Chattisgarh Police said, "I do not know whether Arundati Roy has been wrongly influenced by others or she is actually a mole in the civil society. How do I know."

The 58-year old top cop of Naxal affected state said it was difficult to take a position against supporters of Naxals as one's right to criticise in a democracy cannot be curbed.

"I have to establish a positive link if I want to put him or her (naxal supporters) behind bars," he said.

The police chief said it was for the people to understand whether they have been playing to the gallery and strengthening anti-democratic forces.

"If bold and stringent laws have to be passed. Its for the lawmakers to realise and not for the police to go beyond its limitations," he said.

-PTI
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