Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 20 Apr 2010 21:01

A_Gupta wrote:If Pakistan wants water to be an issue, then India should start saying, yes, it is an issue, India needs more water than the IWT allocates it. That way, India is acknowledging the problem, and can get into "problem-solving mode" to the satisfaction of Maleeha Lodhi and other RAPEs.

Yes , of course, we should then play equal-equal to start with and get 84MAF from Indus basin.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 20 Apr 2010 21:22

Pakistan war games show of force for India (AFP)

Fighter jets roared overhead, shots rang out and tanks lumbered through the desert sands in the biggest war games in two decades in the Khairpur Tamewali area of Punjab province, 600 kilometres (about 400 miles) south of Islamabad.

Up to 50,000 troops will take part in the games, which began on April 10 and will end on May 13 just 60 kilometres from the Indian border.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 20 Apr 2010 21:34

Two rockets fired from Pakistan into Punjab (IBN)

BSF Punjab range Deputy Inspector General Jagir Singh told IANS that the rocket attack on Sunday night in Bhamial sector of Gurdaspur district was followed by automatic gunfire. "Two rockets were fired from the Pakistan side on Sunday night. It was followed by weapon firing into Indian territory. Rifle firing is very rare from Pakistan and it happened after a long time," Singh said.

He added: "Our officials (BSF) retaliated and we fired around 800 to 900 rounds{AOA!}. In the past also there has been rocket firing from Pakistan side but till date they have not taken any action against the culprits and nothing substantial has come out of their investigation."

According to the BSF, nearly 15 rocket shells were fired from Pakistan towards the Amritsar area in June and September last year and in January this year.

During the last month alone, in two separate incidents on the border, BSF officials gunned down three Pakistani intruders and recovered 26 kg heroin and fake Indian currency with a face value of Rs.83 lakh.

In the meantime, BSF has lodged a protest with their border counterparts Pakistan Rangers and demanded immediate action against the miscreants.

Proposed correction: BSF has lodged a second protest after submitting a first draft comprising of 900 rounds of full-metal jacket Indian ammo. Fire first, protest later. Good job, BSF!

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 20 Apr 2010 21:41

International cricket cannot be played at the moment in Pakistan: ICC (The Int'l News)

DUBAI: The International Cricket Council (ICC) taskforce said that no international cricket can be played at the moment in Pakistan and they have to also play their home series at neutral venues or away places. Meanwhile, the ICC has expressed its determination to continue its full support to Pakistan.

The taskforce did not give any deadline for revival of international cricket in Pakistan...

Full support from the hind-side... AOA!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Apr 2010 22:10

Rahul Shukla wrote:
Up to 50,000 troops will take part in the games, which began on April 10 and will end on May 13 just 60 kilometres from the Indian border.

What is important is the dates. It has coincides with astronomical dates

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 20 Apr 2010 22:16

Iran-Pakistan gas deal puts pressure on India

On 16 March, the governments of Iran and Pakistan finally decided to proceed with the construction of a pipeline to export Iranian gas to South Asia. Known as the Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) or peace pipeline, the scheme has been under discussion since the 1990s and was originally intended to supply both Pakistan and India

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 20 Apr 2010 23:17

Acharya wrote:
Rahul Shukla wrote: Up to 50,000 troops will take part in the games, which began on April 10 and will end on May 13 just 60 kilometres from the Indian border.
What is important is the dates. It has coincides with astronomical dates

Acharya dont do this, please!! What dates?

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 20 Apr 2010 23:29

Maybe he is referring to the "13".

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Apr 2010 00:20

He mentioned it before. Somehow these dates coincide with historical Islamist events. One can deduce the underlying objectives from them.

It is like people starting new business on Vijayadashami.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Apr 2010 00:28

When does the wind pattern change to Westward in Summer?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Apr 2010 00:41

RamaY wrote:He mentioned it before. Somehow these dates coincide with historical Islamist events. One can deduce the underlying objectives from them.

It is like people starting new business on Vijayadashami.

The period stated in the report coincides with Mercury going retrograde. That is a sign of problems in communications and misunderstanding. Around apr 18- May13

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Apr 2010 00:42

May 13 is 28 Jumada 1, and April 10 is 25 Rabi-al-Thani, as per online Islamic calendars. A quick search for both dates yields something only for the May 13 date (28 Jumada 1), and nothing that I could find for 25 Rabi-al-Thani. As per the Cambridge History of Islam, the German army in the Second Crusade suffered a disastrous defeat at the hands of the Turks, near Eskishehir, on 28 Jumada 1 542/25 October 1147.

Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... %281147%29

The second Battle of Dorylaeum took place at Dorylaeum on October 25, 1147, during the Second Crusade. Conrad III, running out of provisions, stopped there to rest, and his army of 20,000 men was annihilated by the Sejuk Turks led by Mesud I. The Germans were unable to continue the Crusade, and Conrad made his way (with his remaining army of 2,000 men) to the army led by Louis VII of France, although the Crusade eventually failed completely.

PS: On the other hand, May 13, 1110, the Crusaders captured Beirut, Lebanon and massacred its inhabitants.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Apr 2010 00:53

NightWatch comments on the report of exchange of fire with TSPA.
4/19/2010

India-Pakistan: Indian troops opened "unprovoked fire" at the Pakistani border in Shakargarh Sector, ARY News reported 19 April. For more than 30 minutes, Indian forces fired at least 90 rounds and mortar shells at the boundary area. No casualties were reported.

Note: This is important for two reasons. First, it is the first shooting across the international border in years. Cross border shooting in this sector is serious because past wars have been won and lost here.

The second reason this is significant is that Shakargarh is the site of a battle that ended the India-Pakistan War in 1971. Indian multiple round rocket launcher units destroyed two Pakistan Army armored brigade in a strike division without ever engaging the tanks in direct fire in a matter of hours. The next day or so, Pakistan sued for peace. Firing in this location always is a reminder of December 1971. The timing suggests this incident is related to the next.

Pakistan: The armed forces have conducted the largest coordinated field training since 1989, according to Pakistani news sources. In Exercise Azm-e-Nau 3" (New Resolve 3) troops supported by fighter aircraft conducted a mock battle with India in the largest military exercise in 21 years, signaling that the old rival remained its biggest security threat. The purpose of the exercise is to remind the nation that India remains the primary threat to Pakistan and to test the "riposte" doctrine.

The exercise was held east of Bahawalpur in the central region of the international border with India. Some 50,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen participated. The Pakistan Army tested its ability to "counterattack" an Indian war preparation cycle by rapidly taking the fight into India before Indian could seize any Pakistani territory. Anywhere else in the world, this would be called a preemptive strike doctrine, rather than a counterattack doctrine.

Somewhat ironically one US-based commentator said, "It is meant to signal internally that we are back to where we belong," said Moeed Yusuf, from the Washington DC-based think tank, United States Institute of Peace. "For the world, it signals that India remains the principal threat."

Pakistan Major General Muzammil said India had been informed about the plan - which is required by bilateral agreements. He pointed out that India had conducted around 12 military exercises over the past two years - to test its Cold Start doctrine. "We cannot remain oblivious to what is happening around us."

Exercise Zarb e Momin in 1989 involved 200,000 personnel from all services and was the first exercise to test the riposte or counter attack doctrine. F-16s in the Pakistan Air Force apparently performed well for the Prime Minister, senior cabinet members and the senior military leadership who observed.

This exercise is good for Pakistan Army morale, but in any conventional fight India would win easily because they are more numerous and better equipped. That realization means that any future conflict between these two states will escalate to a nuclear exchange. Pakistan must use its nuclear missile force to survive an Indian conventional attack. That is the lesson of the crisis in 2002 that barely avoided escalation to full scale hostilities. That also is why there must be no more wars between India and Pakistan.

So if TSP based terrorists attack while this exercise is going on and Azm-e- Nau turns into a pre-emptive strike, whats the prognosis?

Gagan et al time for google maps?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Apr 2010 01:00

Zarb e Momin - Strike of the Faithful.

Regarding Shakargarh firing:
http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/20 ... come-real/

On Sunday, as the mock battle unfolded in the deserts of eastern Pakistan, the two armies were engaged in a real exchange of fire a few hundred miles away, along the border in Punjab. Both sides reported the firing in the Shakargarh sector and as is the norm blamed the other for starting it. It didn’t last long and by the standards of Indo-Pak artillery duels it was a blip. But what is interesting is it took place along a settled section of the border as distinct from cross-border firing along the Line of Control separating the two armies in disputed Kashmir. Shooting across the international border has been rare, although there have been incidents in January this year and in July and September in 2009.

NightWatch intelligence, which closely tracks developments across South Asia, says the Shakargarh sector carries the weight of history and perhaps there is a message behind the shooting. This is the site of a decisive battle during the 1971 India-Pakistan War in which Indian rocket launcher units destroyed Pakistani army armoured brigades ending hostilities in that sector. Firing in the location is always a reminder of December 1971. So the question is were the Indians trying to remind the Pakistanis about that battle nearly four decades ago even as Pakistan carried out the wargames named Azm-e-Nau 3 or New Resolve 3?

PS: Lest we forget: Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Basantar

The Battle of Basantar or the Battle of Barapind (December 4 - December 16, 1971) was one of the vital battles fought as part of the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 in the western sector of India. The Indian troops won a hard fought battle that secured this area in the Punjab/Jammu sector.The name Battle of Basantar actually encompasses the entire gamut of battles and skirmishes fought in the Shakargarh sector.

Further, from Wiki

Invading Shakargarh bulge was one of the most crucial components of Pakistan's war strategy in the western sector. Pakistan hoped that by occupying the bulge, the main link between Indian Army positions in Kashmir and Pathankot would be cut-off, following which, it could easily invade Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistani military forces stationed in Sialkot base would keep Pathankot at bay, thwarting any Indian attempts to recapture Shakargarh. However, Pakistan's battle plans were jeopardized because of the ingenuity of a bold attack by the Indians. The Indian Army attacked Pakistani positions in the region within four days of the declaration of the state of war, catching the Pakistanis by complete surprise. After a few days of intense fighting, the Indians had not only pushed the Pakistanis back, but had also come close to capturing Sialkot.

Pakistan Army generally regards this as their most humbling defeat, next only to the Battle of Longewala despite some numerical and qualitative superiority over the opposing force. Apart from Battle of Chawinda where Pakistan defended against Indian onslaughts despite being outnumbered, the entire military campaign in the region was not successful for Pakistan. In this battle alone, India had destroyed close to 70 tanks losing only a few in the process. Pakistan's Hamoodur Rahman Commission recommended that the Commander 1 Corps, who "surrendered to the enemy without a fight" should "be tried for criminal and wilful neglect of duty" and poor conduct of operations, that "seriously jeopardized the Army offensive in the south.[4] The Indian Army, on the other hand, was criticized for their somewhat timid handling of the attack on Sialkot. The army, however, in its defense stated that it was planning another assault on Sialkot with assistance from the Indian Air Force, when the cease-fire was declared.

This and other battles put paid to any hopes of bargaining for territory lost in East Pakistan, by capturing Indian territory; in fact Pakistan had lost sizeable portions of land on both sides of the border.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Apr 2010 01:05

That is the lesson of the crisis in 2002 that barely avoided escalation to full scale hostilities. That also is why there must be no more wars between India and Pakistan.

Illogical at best.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Apr 2010 02:37

GHQ postpones security briefing

The GHQ has postponed a security briefing scheduled to be given to the National Assembly's Defence Committee on Thursday. The briefing was arranged to apprise the parliamentarians on war on terror and the border situation.

The parliamentarians were told that they will be taken to the GHQ in a special bus.

Couldn't find anyone to drive that "special" bus?

Remember the Sri Lankans? They will think twice before riding a bus in pa'astan again.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Apr 2010 04:34

Pakistan to get guided missile frigate from US
WASHINGTON, Apr 20: Pakistan and United States has signed the contract for the transfer of the guided missile frigate USS McInerney here on Tuesday. Capton Abdur Rehman, defence Procurement Attache signed the contract on behalf of Pakistan Navy. The $ 65 million contract will enable Pakistan to take over USS McInerney at US Naval station Mayport, Florida on August 31 this year after which it will be commissioned as PNS AlAMGHIR. A comprehensive refurbishment of the ship will be undertaken under the supervision of US Navy which will be completed in Jan. 2011. Succesful culmination of this contarct will also pave way for acquisition of more vessels of same class for Pakistan navy to raise a squadron of 8 Perry Class Frigates. This will greatly enhance operational readiness of Pakistan navy. USS McInerney was the second ship of the Oliver Hazard Perry class of guided-missile frigates and first US Navy ship named for US Vice Admiral Francis McInerney (18991956). In September 2008 the US Congress had approved selling the frigate to Pakistan with a delivery date of August 2010. Pakistan is considered a major non NATO Ally and is able to receive older unneeded US military equipment. Additionally, the 32-year-old frigate will be given a 65 million dollar refurbishment including anti-submarine capability paid for with foreign military aid provided by the U.S to friendly countries.

http://thepakistaninewspaper.com/news_d ... p?id=16448

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Apr 2010 05:11

instance, both Indians and Pakistanis raise hue and cry over the abuse of Indus Water Treaty. However, John Briscoe, a seasoned independent water analyst, denied that there is an inherent conflict between India and Pakistan on Indus Water Treaty.Instead, Briscoe blames the political distrust for the hyped up issue. On one end, he appreciates the objective reporting and analysis from Pakistan, and on the other, he strongly criticises the influence of ministry of external affairs has on Indian media.Briscoe further argued that India should be dealing Pakistan like the way Brazil helped Bolivia and Paraguay to build regional stability. But the fact that military expenditure in these countries, which cumulatively have millions of people under the poverty line, is much higher than on education and health undermines his wish.Yes, the Indus Water treaty needs to be redrafted considering climate change and growing energy requirements. An amicable solution can be reached, if both sides exhibit strong political will. However, history suggests otherwise; and that is exactly what is happening today.India is not ready to hold concrete talks on the water issue; rather Indian officials are bent upon in eliminating in Pakistan's alleged sponsorship of militant activities in India, whereas it is the Pakistanis; who cannot run an independent foreign policy owing to heavy reliance on foreign aid; that are at the receiving end of regional militancy.
Moreover, the strong influence of army and that of establishment on the widely perceived chain of incompetent and corrupt politicians impedes any chance of finding a way to convince India to sit on the negotiating table and resolve the shortcomings in the Indus water Treaty.Nonetheless, Pakistan being a darling to the US - on its strategy to control Afghanistan through Pakistan army following its planned withdrawal of forces from Afghanistan by 2011 - cannot take its eyes of the western border to support strong commercial ties with India.
Thus, not much international support is in the offing
for Pakistan to plead its case on water resolution.One may wonder that since the threat of water scarcity is an issue for India as well, then why is she so reluctant to come on table with its neighbour. India is sitting upstream and therefore, she can control water flow to Pakistan by building dams and reservoirs. Interestingly, the heart of Indus water system also emanates from Indian-held Kashmir. Thus, the control of water was given to India at the time of partition, following which it took a little more than a decade to redesign a water distribution mechanism under the Indus Water Treaty.But now it's time to revisit the treaty for the better interest of both the parties. But Indians, being in the driving seat, are attempting to manipulate it and simultaneously lobbying to further weaken internally afflicted Pakistan. Though, the violation of hardwired Indus Water Treaty doesn't necessarily deprive the downstream farmers in Pakistan, Baglihar violation is a prime example.The essence is the timing to release the water. But an array of Indian projects - Kishanganga, Bursar, Sawalkot and many others - are potential threats to Pakistan, if India starts playing with the timing of water discharge. If consensus estimates of climate change experts is to be believed, this cat and mouse game might come to an end when Himalayan glaciers rapidly start melting in 2015-25 and India starts diverting more water downstream from Kashmir to flood parts of Pakistani farms.

And not many years after that, by 2030-35 according to environment scientists, when glaciers start depleting, India can stop normal water supply to Pakistan, threatening to create a drought like situation. However, this doesn't mean that India will escape the catastrophe, but it can delay it for many years by exploiting its upstream influence over Pakistan.
Of course, technological advancement to grow food by using less of water can be a mitigating factor, but unless Pakistan consistent water supply is ensured, its economy and its people would face a bitter future. Some may expect a divine intervention, but think again, even Hafiz Saeed, the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba who sought out to create an Islamic state through his Army of Good urged Pakistan officials to get going on water: "The government must take practical steps to secure Pakistani water. It is a matter of life and death for Pakistan."

http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=1 ... =&supDate=

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 21 Apr 2010 05:38

AoA, strat reporting
"The Pakistani government has declared Bajaur tribal region a “conflict free zone,” and asked the 27,000 internally displaced families from the area to return to their homes, Dawn News reported April 20. The formal return process of displaced families is schedule to start April 30, but some internally displaced people from Mohmand tribal region have already started returning to their homes voluntarily".

"Establishing a local civilian authority that can function without a direct military presence and support will be more difficult in Bajaur than in other areas where the military has declared victory, such as Swat. As a major district, Swat had experienced civil government before the military campaign against the Taliban forces there. While the campaign caused massive destruction to infrastructure, the trained employees who made up the civil government are still around for the most part. In Bajaur and the rest of the FATA, on the other hand, a formal government providing services like public safety and social programs has never existed, and the tribal elders that made up the informal government structure have faced years of threats and intimidation from militant groups. If they are not already dead, they have been intimidated into not cooperating with the federal government.

It will take significant incentives to convince potential leaders in Bajaur to overcome the fear of being killed by the Taliban or the temptation of collaborating with the Taliban and accept positions in the new government. Consolidating a new order in FATA represents a long-term project, one that will require both local and national consensus. The only option is restoring the tried-and-tested tribal management system that existed until the militia commanders usurped power from the tribal maliks in the aftermath of the U.S. invasion of neighboring Afghanistan.

Reconstituting the tribal system will require cooperation among the clans. It also will require their ability to withstand future assaults from Taliban militants. And it will require Islamabad to provide the security, economic, and administrative support that the tribal leadership in Bajaur will need to re-establish law and order. Each of these elements will be difficult given the lack of historical precedents, the fact that Taliban militancy is still very much around, and that Islamabad has many concerns in the FATA other than Bajaur."

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Apr 2010 06:38

America prefers India over Pakistan

Indian military has now been assigned to train Afghan Police and Army even after Gen Kayani expressed his strong reservations. As long as Af-Pak policy framed by Obama was to the advantage of India and harmful to Pakistan , Indian leaders were quite satisfied and kept making additional suggestions to make it more biting. It projected Pakistan as a collaborator and part of the problem. Now that the US has decided to take Pakistan off the hook, India is feeling highly perturbed. Had the US weapon sight been shifted from Pakistan to India , latter’s worry would have been understandable. India wants Pakistan to remain a target country and is trying to befool the world that Pak armed forces aided by dreadful Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and assisted by China would trounce India.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Apr 2010 07:03

At Top University, a Fight for Pakistan’s Future

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/world ... rsity.html

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Apr 2010 07:10

X Posted. In the Islamic Emirate of England, Held-Wales, Occupied-Scotland and English-Administered-Ireland things have come to such a pass that a convicted Pakistani paedophile cannot be deported as “his right to respect for family life would be breached if he was sent back” to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Paedophile who abducted underage girls for sex can't be deported... because of HIS human rights

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Apr 2010 07:10

Acharya wrote: What is important is the dates. It has coincides with astronomical dates

Acharya, your posts have always been enigmatic and mysterious because you are very frugal with words. You have to be coaxed into parting with your knowledge. Why can't you be more forthcoming for the benefit of the forummers ?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Apr 2010 07:16

SSridhar wrote:
Acharya wrote: What is important is the dates. It has coincides with astronomical dates
Acharya, your posts have always been enigmatic and mysterious because you are very frugal with words. You have to be coaxed into parting with your knowledge. Why can't you be more forthcoming for the benefit of the forummers ?

Here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 61#p859561

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Apr 2010 07:17

abhishek_sharma wrote:At Top University, a Fight for Pakistan’s Future

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/world ... rsity.html

THis is very interesting article trying to dissect what happened 30 years ago.

The tactic is effective in Pakistan, a young country whose early confusion about the role of Islam in society has hardened into a rigid certainty, making it highly taboo to question.

“It’s unthinkable to talk even about human rights without reference to the Holy Book,” said Ms. Sirajuddin, referring to the Koran. “Such is the dread to be talked about as un-Islamic.”

The reason why goes back to history. In the 1980s, an American-supported autocrat, Mohammad Zia ul-Haq, seeded the education system with Islamists in an effort to forge a unified Pakistani identity.

Early confusion and ever confusion is the right words.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 21 Apr 2010 07:26

Likely Impact of Current Developments on the Pakistani State and its Army ---- Rumel Dahiya
http://www.idsa.in/issuebrief/LikelyImp ... iya_190410

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 21 Apr 2010 07:29

abhishek_sharma wrote:At Top University, a Fight for Pakistan’s Future

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/world ... rsity.html

The related video (below) is interesting as well. The English Prof. calls Pakjabi University a giant "madrassah", full of mujahids from rural Pakjab. According to her, the campus hostel is "overcrowded" with them. AoA!!

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/04/ ... ampus.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Apr 2010 07:29

Acharya wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Acharya, your posts have always been enigmatic and mysterious because you are very frugal with words. You have to be coaxed into parting with your knowledge. Why can't you be more forthcoming for the benefit of the forummers ?
Here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 61#p859561

True, I had seen that. That was why I said what I said: You have to be coaxed into parting with your knowledge.. I still do not get completely what you are trying to say, even after reading your later post, but that may be because of my limited knowledge. Yet, the fact remains that others had to ask you to explain or offer their own interpretations because you did not bother to explain upfront. As a senior member with wide interests and knowledge, is it too much to expect you to loosen your tight hold on brevity ?

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Apr 2010 07:33

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the Islamic political party the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) arranges for a fine display of Islamic madrassah trained logic.

India is responsible for the electricity brownouts and inflationary pressures prevalent in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the JI was targeted for suicide bombing by India for having disclosed this information born out of the brilliance of Islamic madrassah trained logic

:

JI holds countrywide protests against workers’ killings

Wednesday, April 21, 2010
By By our correspondent

LAHORE: The Jamaat-e-Islami held countrywide demonstrations on Tuesday to condemn the killing of its provincial deputy chief, Haji Dost Muhammad, and 25 workers in the Peshawar bomb blast. ……………..

In Lahore, the funeral prayers in absentia were offered at the Masjid-e-Shuhada, led by JI Secretary-General Liaquat Baloch. Addressing the mourners, he said Pakistan was confronted with threats from all sides. He said the JI drive against loadshedding and price hike had unnerved the rulers in Islamabad as well as the US. India, the sworn enemy of Pakistan, had thrust terrorism on this country. …………………..

The News

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Apr 2010 07:53

SSridhar wrote:
True, I had seen that. That was why I said what I said: You have to be coaxed into parting with your knowledge.. I still do not get completely what you are trying to say, even after reading your later post, but that may be because of my limited knowledge. Yet, the fact remains that others had to ask you to explain or offer their own interpretations because you did not bother to explain upfront. As a senior member with wide interests and knowledge, is it too much to expect you to loosen your tight hold on brevity ?

Maybe this topic may not be in the scope of the forum. So I can only mention some astronomical dates. A_Gupta has done some search and found some dates. I did not know about it. Hence it has given us some info on the Islamic calender and how Pak operates. I have learned from his post. That is the only purpose of my opening that topic.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Apr 2010 08:34

arun wrote:
JI holds countrywide protests against workers’ killings

The Jamaat-e-Islami held countrywide demonstrations on Tuesday to condemn the killing of its provincial deputy chief, Haji Dost Muhammad, and 25 workers in the Peshawar bomb blast.

So, whom are they protesting against ? They are still in denial mode and do not wish to accept the fact that the more pious Muslims of the Land of the Purest dispatched the less pious JI members to jahannum. May be the JI are scared to openly say so and are blaming conveniently the YYY. Next in the list is Fazl-ur-Rehman who indeed created the Taliban from his Dera Ismail Khan madrassah and the string of other madrasseh he operates all over Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa. The grand Deobandi International Conference that Fazl-ur-Rehman conducted in Peshawar in 2001 where the message of OBL was read out, is all but forgotten by the very group he created and supported. His MMA, which ruled Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa during 2002-2007 and which allowed the Taliban and Al Qaeda to entrench themselves there will now face the music, as history has repeatedly and unfailingly showed the fate of those who sow the wind.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Apr 2010 09:02

Paradox republic
( is It , the fault dear Parcha is in the very Doctrine imported from Arabia)

Just as lack of democracy and a highly centralised dictatorship left the country’s various non-Punjabi ethnicities calling for an end to ‘Punjab’s political and economic hegemony,’ Pakistan’s majority Barelvi Islamic sect (that constitutes more than 60 per cent of the country’s Muslim population), wasn’t all that pleased when, to bolster the concept of an armed jihad to meet the demands of the anti-Soviet insurgency in Afghanistan, the dictatorship began to aggressively patronise Islamic sects that culturally and theologically clashed with the Barelvi school of thought.Highly politicised and militant strains of puritanical Islam such as Wahabism and Salafism (that were on the fringe in Pakistan) were imported from totalitarian Arab states like Saudi Arabia and their advocates were given a free reign to set up madrassahs and recruiting centers.Not only did these strains begin to eat into the traditional edifice of the comparatively more lax and tolerant Barelvi sect, it also began to radicalise it when, as a reaction to aggressive Wahabi/Salafi maneuvers, sections of the Baralvi sect began constructing their own militant side, of which the violent Sunni Tehreek is one expression.There is thus no surprise in the fact that sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shias and between Baralvi and Salafi groups rose three-fold during the Zia dictatorship.
The paradox
Sectarian and ethnic violence continued even after Zia’s brutal demise, and the specter of the collapse of the state in the face of the maddening campaign of mass murder perpetrated by the offspring of the same Salafi/Wahabi groups that the state itself had fattened became ever more tangible.This was a loud enough indication suggesting the abject failure of whatever that was propagated in the name of Islam and patriotism by the establishment (through post-1971 politics, history text books and the media). But what has stopped Pakistan from being taken over by extremist groups? What has stopped its balkanisation on ethnic lines?To begin with, recently, the first lesson learned from the East Pakistan debacle (democracy) has made a roaring comeback. The major political expressions associated with almost all ethnic groups, and with the country’s dominant Barelvi sect, have realised that their survival in a country that feeds and shelters their supporters and themselves depends on the whole idea of the democratic acceptance and a consensual inter-sectarian/ethnic engagement between the sects, religions and ethnicities that exist in this country.Again, though the kind of ethnic, religious, and sectarian diversity that this country

http://blog.dawn.com/2010/04/20/paradox-republic/

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Apr 2010 09:37

abhishek_sharma wrote:At Top University, a Fight for Pakistan’s Future
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/world ... rsity.html

The Pakistani universities are a den for Islamists and sub-nationalists.

As Zia came closer to JI, he banned all student organizations except the IJT (Islami Jamiat Talaba or, Islamic Assembly of Students). The ban was lifted only in c. 2008 by Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani. The IJT played a significant role in the ouster of Z.A.Bhutto. The IJT participated in the genocide in Bangladesh and later introducing terrorism in J&K. The IJT was dominant in the campus even when Musharraf was ruling and the Punjab University’s Chancellor and Vice Chancellor were Army Generals. It was well known that as late as circa 2008, the IJT was collecting funds for the Taliban. IJT terrorizes campuses in the same way the Hitler Youth Brigade of Nazi Germany ran rampant across the German academic institutions.

The political parties make use of these student organizations for their proxy fights. For example, the All Pakistan Mohajir Student Organization (APMSO of MQM) and Islami Jamiat Talaba (IJT of JI) have had running battles on the streets of Karachi to settle the political scores of their respective parent organizations. The cadres of APMSO attacked a bus carrying IJT students near Karachi University on Sep. 13, 2007 killing several. Since circa 1989, almost 5000 Rangers (a part of the Pakistani Army) have been placed in the Karachi University to maintain peace..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Apr 2010 10:05

SSridhar, please blog away. You know more about TSP than anyone I know. Let a couple of BRF members be your tag team or disable the comments section.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Apr 2010 12:24

Pakistan signs $65 million deal for US warship : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 838889.cms

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 21 Apr 2010 12:46

Pakistanis are b0stards, say the Baloch

The legend lurking on the streets of Quetta these days is, that Nawab Khair Baksh Marri, currently residing in Karachi, had recently sent a coffin to Chief Minister Muhammad Aslam Raisani, indicating that his days were numbered. But instead of returning the coffin in the typical Baloch tradition of fighting fire with fire, he wilted and dispatched boxes full of protection money to the old man.

Under the name of Sarmichar News – in Balochi Sarmichar means ‘those who lay down their lives for the right cause’ – a robust media campaign is run by Salam Sabir Baloch. The messages that emanate from this service go across to thousands of people. From carrying abuses (‘all Pakistanis are b0stards’) to glorifying those who are killed in encounters or are missing (‘they are our real heroes’), the SMS service is meant to create awe and fear. Among impressionable minds it conjures up the picture that Balochistan’s independence is around the corner and the valiant fighters shall soon defeat the “occupiers (Punjabi army).”

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Apr 2010 13:49

Rise of "Mehran Man"-Irfan Hussein of the Dawn.An intriguing viewpoint.

The erudite scribe ruminates upon the trend in Pak ,the steady drift to becoming a "Middle-Eastern state" ,rather than remaining in its sub-continental roots ,put in motion after independence.

As Pakistan’s social and psychological transformation from a South Asian to a Middle Eastern state continues on the track that was unwittingly set in 1947, there are huge implications for us and for the whole region. Unfortunately, not many policymakers are studying this trend. As usual, we will be caught by surprise when the metamorphosis is complete.

The rise of Mehran man By Irfan Husain
Saturday, 17 Apr, 2010

Excerpt:

To examine the social transformation the country is undergoing, Jason Burke uses the Suzuki Mehran as a yardstick to measure change. In his ‘Letter from Karachi’ published in the current issue of Prospect, the Guardian reporter writes:

“In Pakistan, the hierarchy on the roads reflects that of society. If you are poor, you use the overcrowded buses or a bicycle. Small shopkeepers, rural teachers and better-off farmers are likely to have a $1,500 Chinese or Japanese motorbike…. Then come the Mehran drivers. A rank above them, in air-conditioned Toyota Corolla saloons, are the small businessmen, smaller landlords, more senior army officers and bureaucrats. Finally, there are the luxury four-wheel drives of ‘feudal’ landlords, big businessmen, expats, drug dealers, generals, ministers and elite bureaucrats. The latter may be superior in status, power and wealth, but it is the Mehrans which, by dint of numbers, dominate the roads.”

This growing affluence has already caused a major power shift, with the urban population now having a bigger say after years of being ruled by feudal landowners. As urbanisation gathers pace, Pakistan’s traditional power elite will increasingly come from the cities, and not from the rural hinterland. This will have a profound impact not just on politics, but on society as a whole. As Burke observes in his Prospect article:

“Politically, the Bhutto dynasty’s Pakistan People’s Party, mostly based in rural constituencies and led by feudal landowners, will lose out to the Pakistan Muslim League of Nawaz Sharif with its industrial, commercial, urban constituency. Culturally, the traditional, folksy, tolerant practices in rural areas will decline in favour of more modernised, politicised Islamic strands and identities. And as power and influence shifts away from rural elites once co-opted by colonialism, the few elements of British influence to have survived will fade faster.”

PS:We have something similar happening in India,where here too power is moving into the cities from the rural areas,which are now being dominated by land grabbing mafias and MNCs.In India perhaps we could call our chappie as "Maruti Man".The Maruti truly brought about a massive revolution in the fortunes of the Indian middle class,liberating him in many ways and also Indian women who could now travel in the safety of thir own mass produced vehicles at ffordable cost.However,in India,what is happening is that the idea of India and "Indianness" has grown stronger with our steady achievements,institutionally and by Indians in every sphere be it sports or business.While "Indianness" is being strenghtened in India,across the border,the "Pakiness" of Partition is fading fast into a state socially intolerant ,whose power has been usurped from the people through the barrel of the gun by state and non-state actors.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Apr 2010 14:26

ramana wrote:NightWatch comments on the report of exchange of fire with TSPA.

4/19/2010

India-Pakistan: Indian troops opened "unprovoked fire" at the Pakistani border in Shakargarh Sector, ARY News reported 19 April. For more than 30 minutes, Indian forces fired at least 90 rounds and mortar shells at the boundary area. No casualties were reported.

<SNIP>

The second reason this is significant is that Shakargarh is the site of a battle that ended the India-Pakistan War in 1971. Indian multiple round rocket launcher units destroyed two Pakistan Army armored brigade in a strike division without ever engaging the tanks in direct fire in a matter of hours. The next day or so, Pakistan sued for peace. Firing in this location always is a reminder of December 1971. The timing suggests this incident is related to the next.

<SNIP>

ramana, in my opinion, that assertion ^^^ is factually incorrect on two accounts.These are:

(a) The only MRL operated by India before Smerch and Pinaka was the BM-21 GRAD. SIPRI Trade registers mention that 200 of these systems were first ordered in 1974 and delivered between 1974-1977. So, I don't know which MRL is the Night Watch report talking about. I've also not seen the mention of same in the Orbat of formations that fought in the Shakargargh Battle.

(b) The only PA Armored Division in the Sector was 6 Armored Division - which was part of PA I Corps (other formation under it was 17 Division). PA I Corps was the GHQ Strategic Reserve and did not even enter into the battle. The formation that opposed Indian I Corps advance into the Shakargargh Bulge was the 8 (I) Armored Brigade - reserve formation of PA I Corps.

So, I don't know which 2 armored brigades of PA were destroyed and by which MRL of Indian Army.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Apr 2010 15:59

TSP-related - when looking up Bhangra Blowout (the 17th annual competition was held in Washington DC this April 18th), I saw this news-item from 2007 - haven't been able to find out anything newer.

From 2007

There is no longer an official after party for the event due to a stabbing that resulted in the death of Ranjit Singh, a 20-year-old college student from Phillipsburg, N.J., organizers said.

"We haven't had one since (the incident)," Gupta said. "We just feel like it's a more cultural thing - and we're so tired by the end."

The South Asian Society is a defendant in an ongoing lawsuit filed by Ranjit Singh's father Gurpal Singh as a result of the 2005 after-party. GW and the U.S. Government are also defendants in the suit.

Singh's counsel, Geoffrey Allen, said GW filed a court motion to obtain all of the police reports associated with the stabbing. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is opposing the motion, Allen said, because the government is still looking for the offender, who is believed to be hiding in Pakistan.

The next status hearing in the case, which will cover GW's motion, is March 30.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Apr 2010 17:47

Najam Sethi interviews Mani Shankar Aiyer: Worth watching.3.5/5 stars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNlb91unqyk : MSI disses BJP on Ayodhya and extols his Secular credentials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uUHd9Fz ... re=related: More secularism. Talks very intelligently about maowaad, and separatism and Kashmir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3WA80v_ ... re=related: Indo-Pak relations - very diplomatic. VERY INTERESTING. But the old WKK "We must talk inspite of pak-sponsored terrorism"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBb8UoGA ... re=related: IPI pipeline, Indus water treaty.

NO one mentions that with Pakistan the problem is that who to talk to? The Army is the permanent government, and the civilians are only temporary.