J & K news and discussion

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 Apr 2010 14:08

>>jawans on our side are not sure what they are fighting for. They'd rather ne home with their families.

Is this a personal opinion, or is it backed up by any data?

satya · Post by **satya** » 04 Apr 2010 14:27

Jawans are more than happy to serve in RR for the facilities they get are much better than in regular formations atleast in their perception & weight gains . Officer cadre wants to serve in RR for it boosts their carrier so i dont know where CRamjee gets his info unless he is with troops or people near him are serving there which i will find very surprising for having not came across such info having being in touch with people since 2002 onwards . If not based on facts its a highly irresponsible statement , CRamjee has crossed his own heights of bashing everything & everyone under blue sky of Delhi & its occupants now it seem Army too included what's next ............. .

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 04 Apr 2010 14:42

If I'm not wrong then the Siachen glacier does overlook the Shaksam valley, which in turn is located north of the K2 and Karakoram range. This valley is currently occupied by PLA's artillery corps. Is there any chance that the IA can carry out high altitude recon or special ops operations into this area?

It is pretty much out of bounds for the Pakis as they would have to cross the Karakoram from Gilgit-Baltistan to crossover, the IA and IAF have a vantage point in the form of Siachen and airbases south of Siachen such as DBO.

Driving out the PLA Artillery corps from this area will give us unhindered access into the valley and into Concordia proper, hence another vantage point over Gilgit-Baltistan, this time from the north.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Apr 2010 22:51

shiv wrote:
CRamS wrote: while the jawans on our side are not sure what they are fighting for. They'd rather ne home with their families.
This is a good propaganda line for Pakistan. Our men are hardly confused. The men who are fighting are just as fired up as we are - but they go that extra step (walk that extra mile?) and join and serve in the forces. It is we who actually stay at home. So it is grossly unkind to accuse those serving men as suffering from the faults that we have (pining for momma and home) while imagining that they do not feel the patriotic zeal that we feel. They do, more than we show, and work for it on the frontline.

You are a superb communicator - but please pause and think what you say. Sometimes you score a self goal.

First of all, from my heart, my sincere apologies if I came across as in any way, shape, or form, disrespectful to those who are defending India from the TSP barbarians in J&K. I never, for a second meant to say that the jawans do not have the patriotic zeal. What I was saying is that our guys do not have the religious zeal to continue dying. They want to get the job done and get back to their barracks. Once again my apologies for inadvertently suggesting any malice towards our brave jawans and officers. As many of you know from past communication, I have visited the kith and kin of fallen martyrs in Bangalore, and I know their sense of patriotism despite the feeling of profound loss.

I am headed now to my weekly Sunday morning temple visit, and I am going to atone for my mistake in my own private manner.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 05 Apr 2010 04:03

From Rest assured, this jawan at LoC 'will die but not let anyone intrude'

Sub-zero temperature, massive snowfall and high velocity winds are an alien experience for Havaldar M Kumar Velu, who grew up in warm and humid Tamil Nadu. But as he negotiates 12-feet deep snow at an altitude of 10,500 feet along the fence on the Line of Control (LoC) at an ungodly 4am, worry-lines don’t furrow his head. It’s the call of duty, “nothing less than religion’’.

“Every day is a challenge for me. Protecting the LoC against the enemy is a matter of honour for all of us. We will die but not let anyone cross over,” says Velu. This sums up the mood at Fox-land, the company headquarters of 40 Rashtriya Rifles (RR), which has been deployed on the LoC forward base.

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 08 Apr 2010 01:53

X-posting from TSP thread.

SSridhar wrote:Meanwhile, the judicial crisis in PoK worsens.

For those who are not following this story, the CJ of PoK along with the Registrar of the Court were first dismissed by the PM of PoK, who himself came to power recently after a sort of coup. The President of PoK who was on a foreign junket came back hurriedly and simply reinstated the dismissed CJ & Registrar. Now, there are two Chief Justices.

The judicial crisis in PoK intensified on Monday as the deposed PoK Supreme Court (SC) chief justice (CJ) and the acting CJ both began working as the top judge, a private TV channel reported on Monday.

Acting CJ Manzoorul Hassan Gilani chaired a session of the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC) in Muzaffarabad to hear a reference against the deposed CJ Riaz Akhtar.

Earlier, Riaz reached the SC Circuit Bench in Mirpur and issued an executive order to restore the SC registrar, the superintendent and the protocol officer Shehzad Rathore who had been removed by Gilani.

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 08 Apr 2010 01:53

X-posting from TSP thread.

SSridhar wrote:DAWN editorial on the PoK Crisis
Unless attempts are made to defuse the crisis, one can see a period of prolonged political instability over what essentially is a constitutional matter. The head of the ruling Muslim Conference, Attique Ahmad Khan, was within his right to support the president. But most certainly he has not helped matters by asking the people to take to the streets if the ‘non-functional’ chief justice is restored.

Once again, the seniority principle was violated in the appointments of the judges to PoK's apex court. More regretfully Pakistan’s former prime minister Shaukat Aziz , as head of the Azad Kashmir Council, and the intelligence agencies had a role in making appointments which have led to the current crisis. {And, they refer to rigged elections in J&K for the trouble. There is absolutely no people representation in PoK and they talk about India !}

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 10 Apr 2010 04:19

http://www.hindu.com/2010/04/10/stories ... 801700.htm

J&K House passes Bill to ban inter-district recruitment

With the passage of the Inter-District Recruitment Bill, a youth can now apply for government jobs only in his own district. A youth belonging to the SC community can apply in any of the 22 districts in the state, including the Kashmir valley.

Guess who are *Not* SC/ST in J&K? And this bill will keep the valley safe and pure from the unwanted people from Ladakh and Jammu.

J&K is just trying to institutionalize ethnic cleansing. First there was that bill against women holding property if they get married to someone outside the state (that didnt go down well with the womens rights groups) and now this law banning the recruitment of youth from outside the district for government jobs!! With the summer capital in Srinagar, guess where the bulk of the Government jobs are? Cleverly, the same bill allows for SC/ST quota and a provision for SC/STs to apply for jobs anywhere, so if anybody protests against the bill, he is automatically anti SC/ST and anti reservation!!

Wah!

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Apr 2010 07:35

X Posted.

The plight of the residents of Pakistan occupied Jammu and Kashmir (POK).

Abdul Hamid Khan, Chairman of the Balawaristan National Front (BNF) addresses the UK’s House of Lords:

KrishG wrote:Gilgit Baltistan: Abdul Hamid Khan Adresses House of Lords

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 12 Apr 2010 15:33

Fire near Vaishnodevi and Shivkhori shrines in J-K

http://www.ptinews.com/news/605849_Fire ... nes-in-J-K

Jammu, Apr 12 (PTI) Fire broke out in the Trikuta hills of Reasi district where the famous cave shrines of Mata Vaishnodevi and Shivkhori are located.

However, there was no loss of life, officials said today, adding a probe has been ordered into both the incidents.

The blaze near Vaishnodevi shrine was controlled early this morning with the help of shrine board officials, police and forest department personnel.

The fire near Shivkhori temple this morning was soon controlled by forest officials with the help of local people.

Report from Dainik Jagran in Hindi :

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/j ... 0_6331240/

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 12 Apr 2010 16:26

Kashmir opens 100 peaks in Himalayas to tourists

In an effort to persuade potential tourists to forget its recent troubled history, state authorities in Kashmir have announced that more than 100 high altitude peaks previously off-limits to foreigners are to be opened to all.

Hoping to return to the days when Kashmir was considered the Switzerland of the East, officials hope that the mountains will lead to a flood of people wishing to take up trekking and climbing trips.

"This would pave the way for adventure tourism and attract foreign tourists in a big way," Nawang Rigzin Jora, Kashmir's tourism minister, told Reuters. "The defence ministry, which had earlier expressed reservation on throwing open the peaks, has given its nod."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40740.html

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Apr 2010 19:38

Govt trims troop presence in J&K under US pressure?

http://www.dailypioneer.com/248830/Surg ... -size.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Apr 2010 07:48

Separatists move foiled

The Srinagar police on Wednesday foiled an attempt by a local human rights activist to make Lashkar-e-Taiba founder Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood Azhar, Hizbul Mujahideen chief Salahuddin and the former ISI chief, Hamid Gul, to address a seminar here through tele-conferencing from Lahore and Muzaffarabad.

The seminar titled ‘Role of pro-freedom leaders vis-à-vis Kashmir issue' was scheduled to be held in a local hotel here and was to be attended by top separatist leaders, including Syed Ali Geelani, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Mohammad Yasin Malik.

Shortly before it began, scores of policemen raided the hotel and arrested the organiser, Muhammad Ahsan Antoo, who heads a local human rights body ‘Human Rights Forum,' Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (R) leader Javaid Ahmad Mir and three others. {What have Hafeez Saeed, Hamid Gul and Syed Salahuddin got to do with Human Rights ?}

Sources said an audio recording of the speech of Hafiz Saeed, who is considered to be a mastermind of Mumbai attacks, was to be played during the seminar.

He has reportedly drawn a parallel between the “struggles” in Afghanistan and Kashmir, and seeks their simultaneous resolution in his speech.{Linking Afghanistan and Kashmir, the same line that the US is possibly taking}

Inspector-General, Kashmir zone, Farooq Ahmad said the police would not allow such activities though it had no objections with the seminar.

“If he [Antoo] is a human rights activist, how can he involve people like Saeed, Salahuddin and Moulana Masood Azhar,” he added.

Separatists, however, termed it undemocratic. “This is an undemocratic move and I condemn it in strong words,” said Mr. Geelani.

The Mirwaiz condemned it and said: “It is really unfortunate that the authorities don't allow us to conduct democratic activities here in the State.”{There is too much democracy expected to the point that speeches supporting secession, terrorism and religious extremism are termed as democratic activities}

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 22 Apr 2010 08:20

Shortly before it began, scores of policemen raided the hotel and arrested the organiser, Muhammad Ahsan Antoo, who heads a local human rights body ‘Human Rights Forum,' Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (R) leader Javaid Ahmad Mir and three others. {What have Hafeez Saeed, Hamid Gul and Syed Salahuddin got to do with Human Rights ?}

Human Rights? I sure hope the police conduct the last rights of these scum of the earth ASAP.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Apr 2010 08:34

Drop these 3 buggers anywhere in from Punjab to Madras, they need to enjoy the hospitality all the way so much so thet there wont be any necessity for such thing as last rites. But all of them will die like rats, burning with hate and no one will even remember that they existed. Let them die every day and night while we spit on them, enjoy life and keep growing strong.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Apr 2010 19:53

Quash charges against policemen in Shopian case: CBI tells J&K HC

CBI has again approached the Jammu and Kashmir High Court seeking dismissal of criminal charges against four policemen, including then Shopian Superintendent of Police Javed Mattoo, arrested for alleged destruction of evidence in connection with death of two women.

Submitting a fresh affidavit in the High Court recently, the CBI gave details about the lie-detector test conducted on the four police officials and said "no deception was found on their part in reply to any of the questions put to them."

Besides Mattoo, the three others who continue to be suspended since July last year are Deputy Superintendent of Police Rohit Basgotra, Station House Officer Shafiq Ahmed and Head Constable Gazi Abdul Kareem.

"Further, no criminality could be attributed to anyone of them and as such they have been sought to be discharged from this case," the CBI affidavit said.

CBI had approached the High Court in March this year seeking an end to the monitoring of the case by the High Court as the agency had already filed a chargesheet against 13 people including doctors and lawyers.

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 24 Apr 2010 08:05

Kashmir pact was just a signature away.

So, MMS did try to give Kashmir away.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Apr 2010 08:19

sourab_c wrote:Kashmir pact was just a signature away.

That is an old news. I have posted links to Iftikhar Ahmed's interview with Yasin Malik in the former's show Jawab Deyh (almost an year or so earlier?). Terrorist turned political activist/leader YM mentioned that Prem Shankar Jha was playing some role on behalf of MMS.

But again, no other genuinely authentic Indian source said the same; they can't spell it out as it may be an act of high treason or unconstitutional.

It is possible that Pukes may have been had by MMS&Co. The other more realistic possibility, which GOI has aired earlier, is that Paki terror industry MUST be dismantled before we even think about going on the same path again and review the approach.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Apr 2010 08:51

Satya_anveshi wrote: It is possible that Pukes may have been had by MMS&Co. The other more realistic possibility, which GOI has aired earlier, is that Paki terror industry MUST be dismantled before we even think about going on the same path again and review the approach.

Satya_anveshi ji,

The concept and practice of al-taqiyya is hard wired into their genes and psyche. These beggars will use any and all means to get what they want.

Unfortunately we have many al-taqiyyas from the Indian side as well eager for a nobel prize and other crumbs from the high table.

We still have not learned to kick them even after sixty years of continuous and unconcealed deceit.

This is another attempt to " plant " a solution in the minds of the aam jantha which then will be carried forward by the biggest " al-taqiyyas ", our very own DDM and the burqua brigade.

What is interesting however is the fact that the paki agenda in India is being carried forward almost exclusively by the pappi jhappi bunch who erroneously think that they speak for the whole of India.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Apr 2010 10:06

chetak wrote:We still have not learned to kick them even after sixty years of continuous and unconcealed deceit.

Chetak ji,

I am in agreement with you and share your frustration too. However, as Gagan ji mentioned nicely in one of his previous post, that the Paki problem is to be managed for that keeps us on our toes. I know this may sound as defeatist thought but solving Paki problem exposes us to different newer and possibly bigger problem which we may be prepared to deal with.

why not use this favorite pitch to practice and build our capabilities? Let's look at the last decade, we have been continuously saying that stable pakistan is in Indian interest, any other statement may not be palatable to our politicians but see where pakistan is going - straight down the tube.

J&K leaders including harried rats are any day more wiser than pukes and they will take a cue.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Apr 2010 02:23

sourab_c wrote:Kashmir pact was just a signature away.

So, MMS did try to give Kashmir away.

He said the two sides had agreed to full demilitarisation of both Jammu & Kashmir as well as Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, which Islamabad refers to as Azad Kashmir. In addition, a package of loose autonomy that stopped short of the ‘azadi’ and self-governance aspirations, had been agreed on and was to be introduced on both sides of the disputed frontier. "We agreed on a point between complete independence and autonomy," he said.

Kasuri said that both countries, realizing the sensitivity of such a deal, had agreed not to declare victory or tom-tom the negotiations. He said that hardline separatist Syed Ali Shah Gilani was the only Kashmiri leader who refused to come on board. "He would accept nothing but merger with Pakistan, which ironically is something we too wanted but knew wasn’t practical. I once had a seven-to-eight hour meeting with him and even Musharraf met him but he refused to budge," Kasuri said. He refused to give details of the stance other moderate Kashmiri leaders adopted.

Kasuri — who is from one of the country’s pre-eminent political families and whose father drafted Pakistan’s constitution — refused to give details of other aspects of the solution or name Indian officials involved in the deal, saying that since he felt it was the only way Kashmir could be resolved, it could be starting point of next round of talks. He said the reason PM Gilani had appointed Riyaz Mohammed Khan, the foreign secretary under Kasuri, as the track-II special negotiator was because he was one of the key architects of the secret Kashmir pact.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 25 Apr 2010 07:42

sourab_c wrote:Kashmir pact was just a signature away.

So, MMS did try to give Kashmir away.

Fellows

I really think that we should stop being susceptible to Psy-Ops and cry "MMS was 1 inch away from giving up cashmere

". Every Paki thinks that he is an ace negotiator and always wins things that he lost in the battlefield. It is their way of protecting their H&D. For the umpteenth time, let me repeat We need to take 3 things into account

1. After going by bus to Lahore, reaffirming that we accept the nationhood of Pakistan, We had just finished paying the price of blood, sweat and treasure kicking some Paki Musharraf in Kargil and the architect of that was....Musharraf!! Even the stupidest and craziest of WKK will be concerned that the new "99.99% autonomy" of cashmere should not be susceptible to Paki mischief.

2. Have faith in our babus. The Nuclear deal also started as "MMS sold away our bum

" Now even the skeptic like me am proud of the chai-biskoot that they can do to protect our interests when given a tough problem and the mandate. In any case, expect a solution to cashmere (if one were to be found in our lifetimes) to be in stages. (a) Demilitarize Siachen, show good behavior for 10 years, improve trade ties, demonstrably reduce support to terror organizations, convict a "litmus list" of people we hand over, start treating POK & Northern areas better and then we can proceed on autonomy. Even I, with a questionable IQ and no experience in foreign affairs can come up with this scheme. Our babus can be more innovative and do better

3. Have faith in our system. As I pointed out before, there are legal minefields to clear vis-a-vis our constitution, parliamentary resolutions, a hawkish opposition ready to shout "Sellout" and conduct hartals. We are not some tinpot country to sign away a huge chunk of land one afternoon as the Pakis did with the taller than landfills deeper than sewage friends (I am talking about the land ceeded by the Pakis). Coming to that "ceded" land - what of it? Are we getting it back? Is it also going to be autonomous?

Even otherwise, unless they replaced MMS with a Manchurian candidate, wouldnt a typical question be "What is in it for us? Are we getting a good deal?". We are dealing with an impoverished country will will implode tomorrow if the baksheesh pipe is shut. So stop talking statements from Pakis seriously which talks about "equal equal. mutual respect of sovirginity. Talks on equal footing" It is a joke. There is no sovirginity in Pakistan and they are not equal to us by any stretch of imagination in any conceivable metric.

I dont trust any Paki on a good day. On a normal day, I certainly wouldnt trust "Mujahideen in Kargil, Kasab is not Pakistani, Sunroof lever hit the head" types. Before you trust Kasuri, please to jog your memory on his career path and how/why he was fired. Google is your friend.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Apr 2010 09:24

Anujan wrote:
Fellows

I really think that we should stop being susceptible to Psy-Ops and cry "MMS was 1 inch away from giving up cashmere ". Every Paki thinks that he is an ace negotiator and always wins things that he lost in the battlefield. It is their way of protecting their H&D. For the umpteenth time, let me repeat We need to take 3 things into account

Anujan ji,

You seem to have made the right assessment.

Why Kasuri should repeatedly open his gob at this point in time is a mystery that will unravel soon enough.

Some paki papers have already put a spin on it and are pushing this agenda. I think that they are trying to plant some ideas in the minds of the aam jantha in India and hoping that when the drastic solution is finally proposed,
the people here will not be taken aback and raise a hue and cry like it happened after a small incident like sharm el sheik.

The water stealing bit seems to have died down for the moment. Only to resurface at an appropriate moment I am very sure.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=235924

A solution in Kashmir?
Sunday, April 25, 2010
Former foreign minister Khursheed Mehmood Kasuri's startling disclosure that a solution to the Kashmir problem had been worked out under the Musharraf government and that all that was required was a signature on the relevant documents is rather unexpected and opens up all kinds of new possibilities. While there had been talks on the issue that contributes most to continued tensions between India and Pakistan, we had not known a solution was so tantalisingly close. The information offered up by Kasuri, at a seminar organised as part of the Jang Group-Times of India Aman ki Asha initiative is most encouraging. It suggests that in the first place it is possible for both countries to work towards a lasting solution. The entrenched positions taken in the past have left doubts open on this score. It is also significant that in both capitals there is awareness of the need to settle the matter as one that holds the key to easing the relationship between the two nations.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Apr 2010 16:11

Aam junta never even knew what Sham-El-Sheikh was about. I see lots of half brained jackasses who are like, "why not settle the Kashmir issue by giving up Kashmir, even Kashmiris want to break away from India. "

Unless mango admi in India is made aware, such gimmicks do have a fighting chance. Just open up any news channel and see like of Burka and Raj-dweeb talking about "piss and laub" with our neigbour

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 30 Apr 2010 07:02

North J&K communications

Main road connecting Chitral to Northern Areas via Gilgit was re-opened for light traffic at Shundor Pass. The land route has been blocked for all type of vehicular traffic last year after heavy snowfall as a result not only communication between Chitral and Northern Areas disconnected but some vehicles of Northern Areas Transport Company (NATCO) also strained at Mastuj. The road had blocked after heavy snowfall at Shunter pass having the altitude of 13000 feet from sea level. Hence it was reopened for light traffic by removing snow from Shundur Top the highest polo ground of the world.

Qaqlasht Festival

Annual four days Qaqlasht Festival (Jashan-e-Qaqlasht), the calendar spring festival of the people of northern Chitral was concluded today after continuing for the last five days. The festival has a history of about two thousand years, but was abandoned after Chitral's status as a separate princedom came to an end in 1969. The objective of the festival was to protect the indigenous Kho culture and to highlight and market it as tourism product.

Kalash community of Chitral

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 May 2010 04:52

Six boys held while trying to cross LoC

6 boys planned to cross LoC after wining money in cricket

The group of boys planned to cross over to Loc when they made some money after wining a cricket match in native village of Palhalan,” DIG Baramulla A Q Manhas to a press conference. He said that the boys had decided to take “arms training” in order to avoid vagaries of life and skip school.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 05 May 2010 20:00

Pakistan re-starts composite dialog
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 894034.cms

"Major Yogendra Rajbar and Rifleman Uttam Singh were martyred in an encounter last (Tuesday) night," Brar added.

"The officer was a resident of Dehradun and had been operating in the area for close to two years. He is survived by his mother, sister and brother. Rifleman Uttam Singh is survived by his wife and two-year-old daughter," he added.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 May 2010 20:21

krithivas wrote:Pakistan re-starts composite dialog
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 894034.cms

Sad, we lost two 2 precious lives while the pigs are still holed up. I wonder why they just don't bomb the hell out of those houses where Pakis are held up instead of going into a gun fight.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 05 May 2010 20:35

CRamS wrote:Sad, we lost two 2 precious lives while the pigs are still holed up. I wonder why they just bomb the shot out of those houses where Pakis are held up instead of going into a gun fight.

The two lives were lost not because the Indian Army forgot to train its soldiers on the proper procedure to use a Carl Gustav, but because the use of such a weapon would have most likely caused irrepairable damage to the house in question and sorrounding properties. That would not win the Army any fans and/or recruits the next day.

I bet all my goats that there are at least half a dozen Carl Gustav's ready to fire in the vicinity, but the officer in charge would prefer to minimize damage to civilian property. Yindoo army is not known to flatten a village to kill one or two miscreants, unlike the far more capable and wise Brownies next door from which we must all learn how to fight.

That being said, when push comes to shove, houses have been flattened by the Army but only as a last resort. It is not and has never been Step 1 in the Indian Army SOP in the valley.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 May 2010 20:36

Intereview on abc between Sumit Ganguly & Hassan Askari Rizvi

The story of the conflict over Kashmir

brief history on kashmir accession. Not sure how correct it is factually but was posted on ABC site so much have had pretty sizeable audience you can either hear or read the transcript.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 May 2010 20:51

Brad Goodman wrote:Intereview on abc between Sumit Ganguly & Hassan Askari Rizvi

The story of the conflict over Kashmir

brief history on kashmir accession. Not sure how correct it is factually but was posted on ABC site so much have had pretty sizeable audience you can either hear or read the transcript.

What does SG say, that Kashmir be given "independence". This is the US view, and since he depends on US for his research grants and "good boy" status, I won't be suprised if thats what he advocates as many US-based Indian academics have.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 May 2010 22:32

Geelani of Hurriyat is a uncle ka badmash. So that would explain his holding out even when Mushy tried to twist his arm for he knows that uncle will back him up.

Kasuri is revealing all this because he expects talks to restart and he thinks he can get the same and knows India is not going to budge with the changed situation: G-2 flailing etc, EU in meltdown und so weiter.

So he is setting the bar high.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 07 May 2010 00:22

Rahul Shukla wrote:
CRamS wrote: Yindoo army is not known to flatten a village to kill one or two miscreants, unlike the far more capable and wise Brownies next door from which we must all learn how to fight.
.

miscreants

Wonder what the martyred soldiers Parents/Wife and young kids thinks about this policy of winning friends if that is the policy.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 07 May 2010 01:34

CRamS wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote:Intereview on abc between Sumit Ganguly & Hassan Askari Rizvi

The story of the conflict over Kashmir

brief history on kashmir accession. Not sure how correct it is factually but was posted on ABC site so much have had pretty sizeable audience you can either hear or read the transcript.
What does SG say, that Kashmir be given "independence". This is the US view, and since he depends on US for his research grants and "good boy" status, I won't be suprised if thats what he advocates as many US-based Indian academics have.

CRS,

I went and read the transcript, here is relevant section:

Annabelle Quince: After 50 years of conflict, both political and military, have either Pakistan or India ever consider giving up their claim to Kashmir?

Hassan Askari Rizvi: Public opinion in Pakistan has really changed over time. From the '90s, you would see a debate opening up in Pakistan that is whether Kashmir is so important, that they should continue fighting, or should Pakistan think of other ways, alternative ways to settle this dispute? And this debate became a very popular kind of debate in Pakistan, whereas if you go back to the '80s, or the '70s, you don't find that kind of debate in Pakistan, and now people openly talk about finding a workable solution in Kashmir. However you also have people who don't want to move away from the traditional position and faultlines are very clear. Islamic groups, political right, that supports militancy, doesn't want to move from the traditional Pakistani position on Kashmir. However the feeling in Pakistan is that India, despite the negotiations that have taken place from 2004 to the present, is not willing to make any concession to Pakistan and on Kashmir they were discussing, very quietly, not openly, different ways to resolve Kashmir dispute, but somehow this dialogue was suspended. And since Mumbai's incident in November 2008, the dialogue is suspended and India doesn't want to discuss anything except terrorism, therefore every effort made until 2006 seems to have been stalled.

Sumit Ganguly: There are at least two compelling, possibly three, reasons why India will not do that.

No.1. If it cedes that, that Indian in fact cedes the idea on which Pakistan was created, that the Muslims of India had to have a homeland because otherwise Hindu domination would inevitably consign them to the status of second-class citizens. This was the central argument of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of the Pakistani State. And large numbers of Muslims did come to believe that which is why they left India and their ancestral lands in India, and migrated to Pakistan in 1947. So if India were to concede the principles that since Kashmir is a predominantly Muslim area and deserves to go to Pakistan, then the very basis of the Indian State becomes a question and the idea of Indian secularism however flawed, then really has the rug pulled out from under its seat.

Secondly, India also fears that such a secession of Kashmir could lead to similar secessionist movements based upon ethnicity and religion in other parts of India. That this would have a kind of an internal domino effect within India. It sounds very attractive to say why doesn't India cede a Muslim majority area which has been restive and over which much blood and treasure has been expended, and be done with it. But there are other very compelling political issues that cannot be glided over.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 07 May 2010 01:51

Rahul Shukla wrote:
CRamS wrote:Sad, we lost two 2 precious lives while the pigs are still holed up. I wonder why they just bomb the shot out of those houses where Pakis are held up instead of going into a gun fight.
The two lives were lost not because the Indian Army forgot to train its soldiers on the proper procedure to use a Carl Gustav, but because the use of such a weapon would have most likely caused irrepairable damage to the house in question and sorrounding properties. That would not win the Army any fans and/or recruits the next day.

I bet all my goats that there are at least half a dozen Carl Gustav's ready to fire in the vicinity, but the officer in charge would prefer to minimize damage to civilian property. Yindoo army is not known to flatten a village to kill one or two miscreants, unlike the far more capable and wise Brownies next door from which we must all learn how to fight.

That being said, when push comes to shove, houses have been flattened by the Army but only as a last resort. It is not and has never been Step 1 in the Indian Army SOP in the valley.

So IA would rather loose personnel than destroy building? If it is true, that is a sad set of priorities to have.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 07 May 2010 02:45

First ever: Kashmiri tops UPSC
http://www.hindustantimes.com/First-eve ... 40228.aspx

Shah Faesal (26), a doctor from Srinagar and son of a school teacher killed by militants, became the first Kashmiri to top the civil services exam. The results were announced on Thursday.

“I have no words to describe my happiness,” Faesal, a 2008 batch graduate of the Jhelum Valley Medical College, said in Delhi on Thursday.

“My achievement has helped break a stereotype about my community,” said Faesal, who cracked the Union Public Service Commission (UPSC) exam in his first attempt. “It will be an inspiration and set precedence for the people of Kashmir.”

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 May 2010 02:57

Our Faisal studies hard and becomes part of the elite establishment. the other Faisal sets of failed car bombs and claims to be a Kashmiri!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 May 2010 03:37

ramana wrote:Our Faisal studies hard and becomes part of the elite establishment. the other Faisal sets of failed car bombs and claims to be a Kashmiri!

But in western eyes India TSP equal equal onlee

.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 07 May 2010 06:56

surinder wrote: So IA would rather loose personnel than destroy building? If it is true, that is a sad set of priorities to have.

IA would rather win the war, paying whatever the cost is. We have seen it time and again. E.g., in Kargil they took the hard way too, and thereby achieved India's objectives. Salute them even if you don't understand them.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 07 May 2010 06:57

ramana wrote:Our Faisal studies hard and becomes part of the elite establishment. the other Faisal sets of failed car bombs and claims to be a Kashmiri!

The faisala is in India's favor.