Indo-UK: News & Discussion

[Haresh]

Many years ago (well about 17) I worked for two Indian companies, in London
I won't name names, as it could ID me, and I don't need rich powerfull enemies.
Both were owned by very well off, born into wealth types. Both owners were educated at exclusive Indian boarding schools, one was Doon the other I can't remember. Both got their degrees abroad , one at Harvard the other at Oxford.

I remember we once had to visit a financial company in the city for advertising purposes.
My boss insisted that he knew how to handle the "Brits", even though I was born here and lived here all my life.
He insisted that we had to call them "SIR", "Yes Sir" "As soon as we can Sir".
I point blank refused, my argument being that "Begging is not my business" and that it is best to deal with people as equals not in a servile manner also I am not a waiter.

Anyway he insited and I actually threatened to quit, I told him that if he wanted to demean himself he could, but I would not.

Many years later I searched the internet and have found the website for the businesses he runs in New Delhi, very rich, wel connected and good luck to him. But his CV/resume is just full of his membership of all these Blue blooded British establishment clubs, he actually gives the impression that he wished the British had never left. Quite sad really

[Pranav]

Former BBC insider reveals that homosexuality is "very nearly compulsory" in the BBC: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 990013.ece

Before you dismiss this as trivia, pause a moment.

Recall how in China, eunuchs serving in the imperial palace were given positions of great power and responsibility. This is because eunuchs were considered to have no interests that could dilute their loyalty to the emperor. [See "Hidden Power: The Palace Eunuchs of Imperial China" - http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Power-Pala ... 0879755741 ]

Can homosexuality be considered as a modern-day analog of being an eunuch? Would homosexuality be considered a qualification for a position of influence in an organization like the BBC?

[negi]

Haresh bhai why look elsewhere ? Our PM too made similar soundbytes in Oxford in 2005.

[svinayak]

Both owners were educated at exclusive Indian boarding schools, one was Doon the other I can't remember. Both got their degrees abroad , one at Harvard the other at Oxford.

I remember we once had to visit a financial company in the city for advertising purposes.
My boss insisted that he knew how to handle the "Brits", even though I was born here and lived here all my life.
He insisted that we had to call them "SIR", "Yes Sir" "As soon as we can Sir". (

This connection to Doon school and the elite school and the behavior need to be understood. The family wealth must have come from past service to the colonial rulers. They have been trained by their family to show subservience to gain access into the inner circle of the British/western elite. This particular trait has been perfected for centuries by the Indian merchant class to gain wealth.

[g.sarkar]

I don't know whether I have related why I left the UK on BRF. One June morning near Manchester, after I had been living in the UK for 7 years I saw a terribly bright light in the sky and was terrified. People rushed to calm me and explained to me that it was only the sun. I had forgotten about the sun - I had not seen it for years. Britain is a cold grey set of isles.

Dr. Shiv,
I too spent 2 years in Manchester (Stockport actually). And your post brought me back to my days in Manchester vividly. Yes, London had bad weather, but Manchester was much much worse. Every time I took the train from London to Manchester, I could see the dark clouds looming ahead.
Gautam

[svinayak]

I mean, isn't that article 30 years too late.
and take a look at this:

"Remember that the beauty about an Indian," says this irrepressive phrasemaker, "is that he always wants to demonstrate to the folk back home that he has arrived. He wants to be more British than the British, but also to prove to his erstwhile colonial master that he can cock a snook at them."

Frankly speaking that article and all that it represents is YUK ( The New maaaaah rajahs, oof!). So help me God.

This is not last century but it is still happening with Indians. The DIE is the new generation of this colonial behavior. There is no independent identity rooted in his Indian history but the frame of reference is with other past cultures and race. This indian identity without any baggage to the colonial history of any kind including the Muslim culture is what became the standard during the Gandhi days. Now after 60s years these elite have come back again to colonial mentality.

[Gerard]

Piety in the Islamic Emirate of England, Held-Wales, Occupied-Scotland and English-Administered-Ireland
NICK CLEGG SAYS ‘LET ISLAM PRAYER CALL RING’

THE Lib Dem leader is in favour of mosques being able to broadcast calls to prayer from loudspeakers in towns and cities across Britain.

He says the Islamic “muezzin” cry should be ­allowed to ring out just like Christian church bells. He described it as “a joyful thing”.

[Haresh]

Pranav,

The BBC is a most bizarre organisation.
They thump out the anti family, gay, feminist, socialist, anti American/Israeli/Indian message and are also the most ardent apologists for islam.

I think they need to remember what happened to the gays, leftists, women in Iran after the islamic revolution.
They live in a socialist cuckoo land.

[g.sarkar]

This connection to Doon school and the elite school and the behavior need to be understood. The family wealth must have come from past service to the colonial rulers. They have been trained by their family to show subservience to gain access into the inner circle of the British/western elite. This particular trait has been perfected for centuries by the Indian merchant class to gain wealth.

Acharyaji,
I really do not think so. This cringing behaviour is not from Doon School, Harvard or Oxford. It is inspite of this schooling and not because of it. I have seen this behavour also from Indians with little education. It is a kind of Huzur Mai-Baap kind of thing that existed in the fudal era and continued in the License Permit Raj of India, when it was very difficult to find a job without connections. I hope this is changing with the economic development. Along with this there was also the behaviour of the Indian shopkeepers that bowed and kissed hands to sell their goods. This contrasted with the behaviour of local shopkeepers, who were less friendly. But most of the Indian shopkeepers I knew did extremely well compared to their British counterparts. So, whatever they did worked.
Gautam

[D Roy]

Acharya,

The DIE given their advanced years will die off in another two or three decades. what will be left behind will be full fledged goras in brown skin.

BUT , it will also mean that their impact on the wannabe Indian psyche will be much less. As they would not represent the same mix of

'Desi but successful in the west' that their father and grandfather so inspired.

On the other hand given the way the Indian economy is growing a whole wave of non-diffident Indian youth is being created.

The clearest proof of what young indians really think of the DIE and the oh so successful gora ass licking types is epitomized by the success of a certain college movie.

India's economic march must continue unabated. All this terrorism/sherrorism is aimed at only one thing.

[Viv S]

Pranav,

The BBC is a most bizarre organisation.
They thump out the anti family, gay, feminist, socialist, anti American/Israeli/Indian message and are also the most ardent apologists for islam.

I think they need to remember what happened to the gays, leftists, women in Iran after the islamic revolution.
They live in a socialist cuckoo land.

Well political correctness is big priority for them. Which means the BBC is practically everyone's whipping boy. Pakistanis for example hate it far more than Indians.

[sanjaykumar]

They don't speak Swahili at home but incorporate words and short phrases.

I have to agree that the East African Indians did at one time have a certain condescension towards Indians direct from India. You must remember this lot lived a middle class life in Africa when British school teachers could not own cars.

It is good that they have some very stiff competition from recent Indian immigrants-but I have to say they made sure their children do not have to kowtow to chittas.

[Vikas]

I am watching the "The story of US" on history channel right now. To give devil his due, I am amazed at Brits of 17th-18th Century.
Such a small Islandic nation and they had their fingers in pie across all continents.
They were controlling and later fighting Americans while maintaining their hold over Canada whereas Jewel in the crown i.e. India was being ripened to fall in the their plate (Fighting with Nawab of Awadh , Hyder Ali and his son,fighting Sikh and Marahtha empire ) and simultaneously playing politics in Europe and fighting any dominant wannabe power in the continent and looting Africa and indulging in Slave trade.
They hardly had population to support military campaigns nor the local resources. Still they were the hyper power of their time.
It is hard not to feel in awe of them especially for Indians of the era when Britain was still the numero uno country.
Look at Hindi movies, Hero of yesteryear would always returned from UK as "Bada Aadmi". Britain was the place to make it big.
The Queen, The westminister, The Oxfords , memberships of exclusive clubs for Lawyers and Physician, The booker prize, a 5-wicket haul or a 100 at Lords or playing for a county or summer vacations in London was the way to signal that one had arrived.
We will take time before Britain will be treated as it should be which is a third rate country that raped India in the worst possible manner.
Let the current generation pass away and then the next generation which is born after 1947 would see Britis as denizens of Londinistan without any "I miss you Brits so much" kind of statements.

Pre-BRF, even I was part of the tribe that believed in greatness of British rule over India and that they brought so many goodies like Railways, Disciplined army, architecture, science and technology, unification of India, phasing out of Islamic rule, great education system and so many things.

[Karan Dixit]

Pardon my ignorance but I must ask, what is chittas?

[Haresh]

Karan,

Chitta means white in Hindi/Punjabi, it therefore means whites.

[Sanku]

They were controlling and later fighting Americans while maintaining their hold over Canada whereas Jewel in the crown i.e. India was being ripened to fall in the their plate (Fighting with Nawab of Awadh , Hyder Ali and his son,fighting Sikh and Marahtha empire ) and simultaneously playing politics in Europe and fighting any dominant wannabe power in the continent and looting Africa and indulging in Slave trade.

Actually the critical part is to note the order of the events, these are new world settlements, followed by slave trade of Africa to gathering riches through this route, to following Portugese et al to India and taking a different approach than them (trade as opposed to force by early European powers which was thwarted) followed by defeat from America by their erstwhile serfs followed by use of the machinery created to rule America on India.

India actually filled the role of America for UK, after their own country men kicked them out and preferred to keep it all for themselves -- (Some one wanted a example of British staying loyal to British didn't they? )

[Aditya_V]

Ajatshatru- > what about memory of the 70's in Idia Amin' time when India refused to give them Visa's.

[ashish raval]

^^ Ajatshatru, it is completely a figment of mind that people who moved from Africa hate Indians in UK. If you scratch inside the Indians in UK, USA you will find that people who are born to Indians in UK, USA from India who migrated in 1980's are more white at heart and condenscending towards post 1998 arrived Indians in UK, USA than people who moved from east africa during 70's. While you may not even know the full facts, our honorary pm of the time mrs. Indira Gandhi even did not recognised this people as Indians and flatly refused these people of Indian origins to be accepted on humanitarian grounds let alone as our own. So do you accept the descendents of these people to love India as Indians. All these talk of NRI's from so and so dont love India is rubbish. These people who migrated from East Africa worked like ass** in UK before moving up in economic chain. They were not the people who were highly skilled IT workers or one's with elite engineering degrees. They were also not the people who choose to exploit UK benefit systems by producing army of kids like paki's and bangladeshi's did. They were ordinary business folks who were reluctantly given home by british when their own people betrayed them in India. You got analyse more before commenting flatly.

[Johann]

- There is a tremendous amount of public disgust with both Labour and the Tories in the aftermath of the MPs expenses scandal and the house-cleaning that's followed, and that is part of the fuel for the Lib-Dems rise.

- Vince Cable of the Libs, the shadow chancellor is not a lefty on the economic front, and is very much respected for his experience and insight. Nick Clegg's TV debate performances notwithstanding, Cable is the person who gives the Lib-Dem shadow cabinet real solidity as far as both 'Middle England' and the City are concerned.

- Nick Clegg is not calling for a withdrawal from Afghanistan, which remarkably has made the war a non-issue in the elections despite the casualties, quite unlike Iraq.

- A Lib-Dem government could postpone a commitment to the Trident follow-on, but not much more. They would find much stronger domestic support however in working for universal rather than unilateral nuclear disarmament.

- A Lib-Labour coalition is actually one of the more likely outcomes of the election.

[Lalmohan]

the old model of the 'asian' community in the Uk is being replaced by a new, more confident, strident hindu and sikh community and a disadvantaged muslim community. today's indians in the uk dont think of the gora as being superior and needing to take a deferential attitude towards them. some (but not all) of the recent IT wallahs also have this equal equal attitude - frankly that is the only way to get past the weight of history and brown sahibness

[Karna_A]

British family tells US hotel they 'do not want to deal with black staff'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... staff.html

Can someone please tell the stiff upper lip, bad breath and teeth stupid British that the days of Empire are long gone and it's right now on borderline between becoming a third world country, like it always was till it plundered Indian wealth.

[sanjaykumar]

It is not uncommon at all for high-end restaurants to employ only white servers. Yes! In this day and age.

While experiencing a satisfying paroxysm of outrage, Indians should peek into their own collar. I certainly use these occasions to cross-examine my own biases.

[sanjaykumar]

One may want to consider that when E.African Indians came to Britain, this was an openly racist society where a hard working Indian could hope to be left alone to run a news agent at the tube station. There were few Indi immigrants then except of course for Southhall being full of them. I don't think they were researchers or physicians.

The condescension was based on the gauche manners, thick accents, poverty driven miserly ways, extreme gender bias and rigid social conservatism.

By the way, atrue story, the head of a large hospital specialty is from India- with a thick, clumsy and louche accent. He was bragging recently to a 'lowly' white psychologist how he had had a British accent when he came west, BUT HAD LOST IT



I have fortunately never seen a "British Asian' stoop so low.

[chetak]

This should provide some tingling in uncle musharraf's
musharraf


http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... id=8820068

Britain to withdraw Musharraf's security

Indo-Asian News Service
London, April 27, 2010



The British government has decided to withdraw the security and other facilities of former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf after a UN report on former prime minister Benazir Bhutto's murder revealed her security was insufficient during his reign.

The British government has decided to withdraw all the facilities, including security, provided to Musharraf, the Online news agency reported Monday.

Musharraf was given a special vehicle for his security and was guarded by Scotland Yard personnel.

The government has also refused to extend the visas of his security guards, retired Pakistani SSG commandos, who accompanied him to Britain.

[rohiths]

Will musharaff's musharaff be saved or will he meet the lampost?
We need to have some poll

[Hari Seldon]

Brutal choices over British deficit

The next government will have to cut public sector pay, freeze benefits, slash jobs, abolish a range of welfare entitlements and take the axe to programmes such as school building and road maintenance – or make a set of equally politically perilous choices, according to an analysis by the Financial Times. Packages of measures such as these are already under consideration in the Treasury and will be needed if further big tax rises are to be avoided as the next chancellor seeks, at a minimum, to halve the deficit by 2014 – a goal to which all the main parties are signed up to.

Yawn.

Walk the talk, honey. Do the austerity and brutal cuts bit first. Ask Ireland how its going over there. Sri Brown meanwhile deserves, clearly, to win the polls for the next 20 yrs. He's demonstrated commitment to spending cuts by cutting out Sri Musharraf's security detail. Bravo!

Meanwhile, while whining about the sdre space program, could the UKstanis kindly consider the following?

The spending choices are so difficult that senior officials believe that an incoming chancellor may be forced to resort to additional tax increases.
...
At the very least, Treasury officials believe that the next government must bring down the cost of social security benefits to prevent drastic cuts in the areas of government activity that the parties have said they will not protect. "If you take 25 per cent out of defence, you would not have much of an army left," one official said. FT costings of a range of the choices that the next chancellor will face show that almost the whole population would be hit as the new government makes £30bn-£40bn of cuts in real terms to halve the deficit.

An online simulator, developed by the FT using government figures, suggests a saving of that scale would require all of the following: a 5 per cent cut in public sector pay; freezing benefits for a year; means-testing child benefit; abolishing winter fuel payments and free television licences; reducing prison numbers by a quarter; axing the two planned aircraft carriers; withdrawing free bus passes for pensioners; delaying Crossrail for three years; halving roads maintenance; stopping school building; halving the spending on teaching assistants and NHS dentistry; and cutting funding to Scotland and Wales by 10 per cent.

Jai ho jai ho

The public is braced for this looming era of fiscal austerity, but the case for spending cuts is yet to win over the public sector workers likely to be among the worst affected, an FT poll suggests. A Harris Interactive survey of people in battleground marginal seats found that most expected tax rises and spending cuts, irrespective of which party wins the election. More than two-thirds said it was likely that public services would be cut by the next government. But only half agreed with this approach, with 45 per cent of public sector workers backing an actual increase in spending by the state.

Like I said, "yawn". All these are mere scare stories. UKstan will do just fine, I tell you. Haven't they managed swell for 100s of yrs. Hence, they will in the next 100 too.

[sanjaykumar]

I understand the root cause of resentment of British Asians is their unwillingness to marry Indians from India. Perhaps they have good reason, that we should try to fathom.


I think the point of the anecdote has been missed-it is not about accents but the psychology of the India immigrant-may be the department head but he is still a ghulam.


Further it may be instructive to learn more about the history of Indians in Africa as opposed to the New World and Fiji and the meaning of the term indentured. Lack of historical context detracts heavily from meaningful discussion.

[sanjaykumar]

[sanjaykumar]

Hehehe, just following your lead guv'-indentured coolies and all that, hehehe.

[sanjaykumar]

Sure, next I am in the resplendant isles.

[Varoon Shekhar]

Not way off topic but there is a distressing tendency among far too many( won't say all) Indians and persons of Indian origin to be ignorant of, and sometimes condescending to, other parts of India and Indians who originate from those parts. And the ignorance is glaring with the young.

Large numbers of people from north India have great difficulty naming the 4 southern states. Why is that? Is it a fault of their upbringing or the Indian educational system? What is so hard about merely saying Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka? As opposed to just using the word "south"? It doesn't reflect well on the persons in question. One young Indo-Canadian originally from Punjab, visited Bangalore and Karnataka, and the only thing the guy mentions is that he enjoyed the coconut water. No reference to the dynamism of Bangalore as an IT destination, and no acknowledgement of the rich history of the state with the Hoysalas, Eastern Chalukyas, Vijayanagar etc. I was simply appalled. But his case is by no means rare.

One pleasant experience in this regard was when I told a young recent Punjabi immigrant to Canada that my parents are originally from TN. He immediately said "Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam" in a light hearted way. I was like really floored, eh! May his tribe multiply. Awareness and acknowledgement- more Indians need to show more of it.

[sanjaykumar]

I blurted out 'NTR' when this dude was asking for Telugu movies. he looked at me as if I was a nut.

[Airavat]

Famines under British watch

The article is about rising food prices and the problems in the agriculture sector under the current UPA government, but it also provides a summary of famines under the callous British Empire:

1770: Territory ruled by the British East India Company experienced the first Bengal famine; an estimated 10 million people died.

1783-84: Up to 11 million died in the Chalisa famine in the regions of present-day Uttar Pradesh, Delhi region, Rajputana (now, Rajasthan), eastern Punjab region (this is the Indian part of Punjab), and Kashmir.

1788-92: Another 11 million may have died in the Doji bara famine (Skull famine) in Hyderabad State (now part of Andhra Pradesh), Southern Maratha country (most of which is now Mahrashtra State), Gujarat, and Marwar.

1800-25: 1 million Indians died of famine.

1850-75: 2.5 millions died in the Orissa famine of 1866 and the Rajputana famine of 1869; due to a generous relief effort, however, there was no mortality in the Bihar famine of 1873-74;

1875-1902: 7-8 million Indians died of famine (the Great Famine of 1876-78 took 5.25 million lives).

1943: The second Bengal famine resulted in over 3 million deaths.

When some British liberals called for policy reforms so that famines would not take away so many lives, Viceroy to India Lord Lytton replied, "Let the British public foot the bill for its 'cheap sentiment,' if it wished to save life at a cost that would bankrupt India [i.e. British Government of India]." He ordered: "There is to be no interference of any kind on the part of Government with the object of reducing the price of food," and instructed district officers to "discourage relief works in every possible way.... Mere distress is not a sufficient reason for opening a relief work."

[joshvajohn]

India seeks links with Wales

Apr 27 2010 by Robert Llewellyn-Jones, Western Mail

India seeks links with Wales

EDUCATION will be a key driver of links with India, its High Commissioner to the UK told a business audience in Cardiff yesterday.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-i ... -26322760/

[Gerard]

Some news from the Islamic Emirate....
Muslim daubs war memorial

A Muslim protester who daubed a war memorial with graffiti glorifying Osama Bin Laden and proclaiming 'Islam will dominate the world' walked free from court after prosecutors ruled his actions were not motivated by religion.

Tohseef Shah, 21, could have faced a tougher sentence if the court had accepted that the insults - which included a threat to kill the Prime Minister - were inspired by religious hatred.

But - citing a loophole in the law - the Crown Prosecution Service chose not to charge him with that offence and he escaped with only a two-year conditional discharge and an order to pay the council £500 compensation after admitting causing criminal damage.

[Haresh]

British politicians have sold their souls and the country for the moslem vote bank.
One of the major persectors of Sikh/Hindu/Jewish students in the UK is Hizb ut Tarir, they have lots of members and lots of votes.
This is what Labours Ed (No) Balls has to do with them
http://www.spectator.co.uk/spectator/th ... hrir.thtml

http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4175

[brihaspati]

Do Indian students really gain educationally by studying in UK? I can see that they stand to gain with superior skills training from India in the job market - if of course they are allowed to work. But educationally! That is a real surprise. I have had first experience of having to deliver "education" to British students at undergrad and postgrad level and know the severe limitations that exist in undergard delivery simply because the students are not up to the required level. Any Indian student will also get the same treatment and constrained delivery. Many of the UK institutions carry on through pre-existing networks in being able to place their graduates in shiny positions but there is a distinct decline in the quality of the "output".

I do not understand this urgency on Indian part for "educational tie-ups" unless Brit students come and pay for higher education in India.

[Chinmayanand]

Some news from the Islamic Emirate....
Muslim daubs war memorial

In how many years will the muslims in UK become powerful enough to throw the British into the sea and capture the island ? They seem to be greatly helped by the crooked politicians there . One thing that is aiding the jehadis in UK is their Right to Vote in a democracy. These jehadis must be stripped of this right in every democracy.But in the end , the British deserve this.The Ummah must capture Britain. Prince Charles in Kandura with his begums in burqa or maybe the prince in the sea and the begums in burqa in the harem of the mullas. Looks fairly possible within two decades.

[sum]

A Muslim protester who daubed a war memorial with graffiti glorifying Osama Bin Laden and proclaiming 'Islam will dominate the world' walked free from court after prosecutors ruled his actions were not motivated by religion.

Tohseef Shah, 21, could have faced a tougher sentence if the court had accepted that the insults - which included a threat to kill the Prime Minister - were inspired by religious hatred.

And i used to think that India is the biggest dhimmi out there.

God save the queen ( from the Paki Jehadis rearing at home)

[Prem]

Why God save the queen !! onlee Allah can save the Queen living in Londanabad. There are 2 places on this earth in dire need of more and pure Islam , One is known as Pakistan other to be known in near future as New Pakistan with capital in Bradford and sovereignty in Peshawar.