Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

[Bala Vignesh]

Shameek bhayya,

God has given all of you; Shankar, Vivek, Dileep, Sudhanshu, Sanku, and you a great gift. Pranamams to all of you for using those skills to serve Bharatmata.

Thanks

Don't know about bharat mata... But they surely a doing a great service to the Bharat Rakshaks here...

Awesome build up so far... Keep up the good work sir...

just wish you had selected the MiG 35 as the MMRCA instead, though...

[Shameek]

Thanks Rama and Bala.

Bala, believe it or not, I actually started out with the MiG 35, but the Typhoon being in active service means there is much more open source information available on it than the MiG. It helps in developing the story if there is more information.

[bksahu]

Shameek bhai,

Excellent buidup!!!!!!!
please post the next part!!!!!

[Bala Vignesh]

Bala, believe it or not, I actually started out with the MiG 35, but the Typhoon being in active service means there is much more open source information available on it than the MiG. It helps in developing the story if there is more information.

Ok... Don't take me bad but if that were the case you could have gone for the gripen... but lets forget about that.. On the auspicious event of the LCH's flight, could we get a double post??? It'll be perfect ending to the day..

[andy B]

Double post deleted

[andy B]

Shameek bhayya,

God has given all of you; Shankar, Vivek, Dileep, Sudhanshu, Sanku, and you a great gift. Pranamams to all of you for using those skills to serve Bharatmata.

Thanks

X2 Rama ji.
Shameek, Sudhanshu, Dileep, Sanku (ebil PS3 mullah ) et all great work saars please do keep going we are all very keen to read more....I imagine Brfites sitting in posh affices to parks to homes all greatly enjoy reading the great stories you bring to life with your writing skills and imagination. God bless you all.
Shameek boss you have given this phata dhoti abdul (copyright Bose babu) great joy by choosing to write about the EF which ofcourse is my personal favourite in the MRCA conondrum. In a way I see it as a very extreme evolution of the Mig 29 combining brute strength with Digital everything.
The EF is what would have been born when a Mirage 2000 and a Mig 29 had a tryst. The kid took the beautiful familiar shape of the delta winged mother and refined it with the brute strength of the father and ofcourse took the mother's attributes of Digital everything.

[Manish_Sharma]

The EF is what would have been born when a Mirage 2000 and a Mig 29 had a tryst. The kid took the beautiful familiar shape of the delta winged mother and refined it with the brute strength of the father and ofcourse took the mother's attributes of Digital everything.

Andy, does it means its more or as manuverable/acrobatic as mig 29/35?

[andy B]

The EF is what would have been born when a Mirage 2000 and a Mig 29 had a tryst. The kid took the beautiful familiar shape of the delta winged mother and refined it with the brute strength of the father and ofcourse took the mother's attributes of Digital everything.

Andy, does it means its more or as manuverable/acrobatic as mig 29/35?

Boss my knowledge is limited so take it FWIW maybe someone like karthik or mr. Ahuja can shed more light on this.

AFAIK the 29's great advantage was slow speed manovering, IIRC Solah and Pandhra pilots were told to steer clear of scissor fights with the 29 as it would cut and bleed em. This combined with the HMS and archer combo and the very accurate gunsight with the Gasha 30.

The EF is indeed very good close in and AFAIK has a very decent supersonic perfomance too thanks to its efficient design and the amazing EJ200s. The EF also has a very good HMS with the Asraam and the IRIS-T (the IRIS T has tvc like the r73 archer, think of it as a child of the Aim 9 and the R73, although its aft wings before the end fiins are like the french Mica and the R77 I think) while the Asraam has longer range IIRC but would be a tad less manoverable than the IRIS), combined with the trusty mauser 27mm cannon.

The way I see it the canards really help it out big time in close in slow speed (mind you those canards compared to the size of the aircraft overall are huge and provide significant input in manovering) and the very efficient Delta wing combined with the EJ200s provide the impetus to gain significant supersonic perfomance.

It would indeed be interesting to see how it would match up against a TVC Mig 35 or a Mig 29 OVT rather than a plain vanilla Mig 29. I would imagine with TVC the Mig will be even sharper in slow speed and will ofcourse have better supersonic perfomance...the only way to find out is if IN orders TVC for next batch of K's and we get the EF in MRCA...AOA

The thing to watch out will also be if EJ puts TVC nozzles on the EJ200s then it ups the ante again...however given the close proximity placement of the EJs on the EF it'd be hard to move the nozzles in the horizontal plane would be more of a 2d vertical plane movement I think.

Again all this is strictly JMT given my limited knowledge.

[Shameek]

All in a days work - Post 4

IAF AWACS ‘WATCHDOG’

‘They’ certainly had noticed. In fact at that moment they were staring at their screens wondering what on earth was going on. The Pakistani flight leader had just broken radio silence and said that the mission must go on! His words implied something more than just a training sortie. What were they thinking? Surely they knew the Indians would hear every word. It was highly unlike them to have made such a basic mistake. The radar operator gave a questioning glance at his colleague. All he got in response was a blank look and a shrug that said, “Hey, mistakes happen”. Somehow he was disinclined to believe that to be the reason.

The data from their aircraft was being transmitted real-time to all the ground control stations on the western border. They were all on alert now. On the glowing screen, the blips representing the F-16s moved steadily towards the international border. The flight leader ‘Viper 1’ seemed to be heading south towards Karachi. Surprisingly the malfunctioning plane seemed to be flying quite steadily. The crew of the AWACS knew that the whole IAF machinery somewhere below him was going into a state of combat readiness. Every radar on the western border was now tracking the four aircraft steadily moving towards them. Suddenly the blips changed course away from the border. They seemed to settle on a North-South bearing. They all breathed a collective sigh of relief but kept their eyes fixed on the screens. No one really understood what to make of the situation.

NALIYA AFB – KUTCH

The siren screeched into their ears. Like bullets out of a gun the two pilots raced out to their respective aircraft. Getting into the cockpit each immediately started the preflight checks to ensure all systems were functioning smoothly. The ground control had informed them that the enemy was within 100 kilometers of the international border. They had been through this before but each time it felt like the first time. The preflight checks were completed. They were strapped in and ready to go.

And then suddenly there was a lull. Their radio came to life and informed them that the bandits had just changed course. Both Krish and Ajay cursed to themselves. Krish looked at the muted glow from the three large multifunction displays in front of him. He wished something would happen. His hand closed on the center mounted stick by habit. It gave him a brief moment of comfort. The wait was the worst of all. They were on scramble alert now.

[Venu]

Shameek saar, we jingoes want more..

[Manish_Sharma]

Thanks for the explanation Andy!

[Shameek]

All in a days work - Post 5

SARGODHA – PAKISTAN

The old man wondered why he did it. Each time he felt the same apprehension. He feared for his life and that of his dear ones. But then the extra rupees he made, paid for his expensive asthma medicines. And he was after all helping a fellow countryman earn a decent living. His work was never really difficult or time consuming. In fact he did not even need to put in any extra time or effort. All he had to do was keep a watch on any unusual activities around the airport. Being a sweeper at the mess, it was not so difficult to do that. He found it amazing how people he saw everyday ignored him most of the time. He even wondered if they knew his name. He smiled sadly. Where was the respect for the elderly these days?

But Abbas respected him. He was such a polite young man and most importantly a devout Muslim. He had been brought up well by his parents. He was almost like a son to the old man. He usually came over to discuss whenever there was something going on at the base. After all in this country the press was never given accurate information. The poor fellow had to depend on this old sweeper to get some news. He wondered if Abbas’ articles ever got published in the papers. He had forgotten to ask again. He shook his head. Old age was catching up very fast. Over the past month there had been a lot of activity at the air base. And he had mentioned it to Abbas. But he had never really got into any trouble. However, today Abbas had been quite curt. He repeatedly wanted to confirm the news. The old man wondered why and tried to get some sleep again. Sleep seemed to have become a luxury at his age.

At the other end of town Abbas was a worried man. The President was staying over at the base! Why on earth would he do that! Of course he was an army General and would visit his troops at times. But why visit this late at night. And then stay over. The old man had mentioned about the heightened security for the past month. That along with the nightly sorties presented a disturbing picture to him. A thought formed in his mind and he prayed he wasn’t right. It was a warm night. Wiping the beads of sweat off his brow, he decided to call on the number. Usually his communication was carried out using a dead drop e-mail account; a simple draft message left by the sender and deleted by the receiver. This ensured there was no actual outgoing or incoming e-mail traffic. But today he would call. His instincts told him to and he had learnt to follow them. They kept him alive. He pulled out his cheap Nokia cell phone, picked out a SIM card at random and attaching it, dialed.

SPECIAL SERVICE BUREAU (SSB) – RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS WING

The phone rang. The man behind the desk smiled grimly to himself. He was almost expecting the call. He had just been informed of another sortie towards the Indian border from Sargodha. After repeated attacks on Indian soil by Pakistani backed elements, co-ordination between the Indian armed forces and the intelligence services had increased greatly. Faced with ever increasing religious fundamentalism threatening to shake the roots of the country, RAW had been almost reborn. Founded in 1968 and provided with clandestine support by successive governments, RAW is the Indian equivalent of the CIA and the former KGB. Over the years it had established more than 20,000 operatives in Pakistan and had been alleged to be responsible for the current ethnic instability in the country. However at the turn of the century, there was a lot that was found wanting given the rapidly evolving threat perceptions. After a few setbacks they had bounced back. Today they were back doing what they did best.

He picked up the receiver and listened. After a few moments he hung up saying, “Go to sleep, its late”. He immediately informed his superior about the developments. The president at the Sargodha base! What were their friends across the border planning to do? He had a feeling he would have to take some tough decisions today.

[biswas]

..........

*tear*

[Nihat]

Sudhanshu bhai Jaan , where are you ?

[Shameek]

*tear*

Sorry buddy, did not get what you meant.

[biswas]

*tear*

Sorry buddy, did not get what you meant.

A tear, as in a tear rolling out of my eye.

Not the tear, as in tearing the paper on which is written, sorry for the ambiguity.

[ramana]

Request for future scenario.....

X-post....

DNW take on whats happening right now:

Think the Indians are very sure that Headley was a double agent and they know that US knew of Mumbai attacks. Yes, the US did try to warn us before the attack, however, they think the US knew enough to stop the attacks and Delhi reckons they purposely withheld info. Delhi is getting more suspicious when there was a plea bargain not to be extradited and his testimony will be classified. SM Krishna's statement suggests that he is not sure if we will get to interrogate Headley.

Delhi is extremely sure that Kabul attacks was planned by the ISI and is seriously pissed with TSP. Strategic planners in New Delhi are certain more terrorist attacks against Indian targets are on the way and accuse Washington of deliberately turning a blind eye to this volatile situation.

DNW says the strategic reading now is this: Sooner or later, these attacks will spark an all out war which will engulf the entire subcontinent incl TSP.

Now the investigation is about tracing the handlers in the various foreign countries who handled the credit card bills.

---------------------

After the Chechen bombing of Moscow Subway station indicating revival of Chechen jihad and the Uigers again raising their head, can we have the scenario builders work on a three-pronged (Russia, Indian and PRC) attack of the root of evil while keeping uncle happy with money? In other words the dash to Indus is converted to dash to Amur.

[ramana]

biswas, While I understand you are getting emotional but do you need to quote the whole post to just post one ambigous word?

[Rupesh]

Shameek...

Awesome..

Saar give us something big for the weekend

[Klaus]

Request for future scenario.....

In other words the dash to Indus is converted to dash to Amur.

ramana garu, surely you mean the dash to the Amu-darya, dont you? The Amur is located in the Russian far east forming its border with China. The Amu-darya is located much closer to India in Central Asia, it would also be consistent with your Chechen/weegur scenario request.

[ramana]

Yes Amu Darya.

[Prem]

Take Half of Persia as fine for Nadir Shah's deeds, capture r South Pars Gas field and Solve many problem in one go . 5mill men under arm ,10k tanks and 2k 4-5g fighters with TMD and BMD in place along with 300 Ship Navy will go long way to send Mo Bin Qasimism home to Baghdad.If Dream then dream big . All the above can be realistic with 10T plus economy in~2020-2025~.

[Manish_Sharma]

^^ Kindly add 1000 warheads too !!!

[Prem]

2000 deployed and 2000 in reserve for repair, rotation and possible retaliation.

[Shameek]

Sorry for the brief hiatus. Was busy in rozi roti endeavours. hopefully I will be more regular now.

All in a days work - Post 6

THE ARABIAN SEA

She was the new flagship of the Indian naval fleet. Since her decommissioning from the Russian Navy she had been completely refitted with the latest navigational and armament suites. She also sported a new ski-jump. After a lot of delays and hassles over prices she was finally here. With a complement of 15 MiG 29 K fighters and one Kamov Ka 31 ‘Helix’ Airborne Early Warning helicopters INS Vikramaditya certainly was a projection of the Navy’s growing power. However, this also made her the prime target of potential adversaries. Hence, she always sailed with her convoy of escorts flanking her over and under the water. Today the waters around her were calm. She was sailing sedately. There was barely any wind. But there was a buzz inside her mammoth structure. There were rumors that something was up on the western front. Little did she know she would soon be an active part of it.

AFS KARACHI

Viper 1 came in for a smooth landing. Taxiing down to his designated fuelling point he looked out with satisfaction. His escorts were ready and waiting. Not very far away stood two spanking new F-16 block 52 fighters. Their pilots were already waiting in the aircraft. These, along with him would make up ‘Falcon flight’. He thought of the bird of prey swooping out of the sky on its unsuspecting victim. Yes, it was a perfect name. The new aircraft had been procured from the Americans alongwith a whole new weapons suite in return for their help on the war on terror. The Indians were naturally agitated, but there was little they could do about it. He believed his country was important to the world powers that mattered and India was not one of them. Each carried four air to air missiles along with a single laser guided bomb (LGB).

As jet fuel gushed into his thirsty jet, he glanced around the runway. He noticed the ground crew were staring at his plane and muttering to themselves. They occasionally looked up at him but knew better than to ask. It didn’t come as a surprise because few in the PAF had ever heard about this weapon. And a majority of their own forces did not know the fact that they owned one of these. And this would be decisive in today’s victory.

Soon his plane was refueled and ready. He taxied to the main runway. Out of the corner of his eyes he noticed his escorts line up behind him. The radio crackled, “Falcon flight, clear to take off.” “This is it”, he thought. Putting in a short prayer for Allah to guide him he released the brakes and pushed the throttle through the gates. A nine foot long flame shot out of the back as the fighter leaped ahead and within moments he was airborne. He turned towards the sea. Behind him in the darkness Falcon 2 and 3 took off and moved into formation. They switched off their navigation lights. Surprise was essential. Surprise was everything.

[andy B]

Shameek good work mate are you referring to ze Black Shaheen in the above scenario under ze Solah?

[Shameek]

Shameek good work mate are you referring to ze Black Shaheen in the above scenario under ze Solah?

Thanks buddy. That question will be answered in the next few posts!

[chaanakya]

Don't know where to put it.

Its from Orbat.com 0230 GMT April 8, 2010

*

China-India We've received several letters from enthusiasts wanting to "play" with the new Indian orbat in the North. But Editor would advise against that. The Indian Army, understandably enough, has a very different institutional outlook based on its history, psychology, political leadership etc etc than from what you or I might assume as enthusiast war gamers. Editor has four decades of experience studying the Indian Army, and to this day there are many things about the way they think and operate that he doesn't know or fully appreciate.
*

Editor tried to explain this to the worthy members of Bharat-Rakshak Forum during the 2001-2002 Parakram crisis. BRF was going all gung-ho about moving this corps hither and that corps thither, and defeating the Pakistanis in no time flat. Editor tried to explain that none of this took into account how Indian and Pakistan Armies operate; more to the point, the understanding of military operations of enthusiasts was non-existent. BRF members just did not understand the risks the Indians faced with every course of action they were suggesting.
*

BRF was pretty annoyed, saying Editor spent his life saying how this was very difficult and that was very difficult. But really, large-scale combat between two - or in this case three - huge land armies is very difficult and fraught with enormous risk at every stage. There's a reason WWI went on four four years, and WW2 for six, and Vietnam for 7 (Main US engagement period), and Iraq 2 for five, and Afghanistan for going on 10. Its easy for you and me to say the army should do X, Y, or Z, but we are not responsible for the consequences. Military people think ten times before using force, and after they've decided to use force, they look at it ten times again.
*

The sole exception is the US in the post-Soviet Union phase because it faces no enemies it cannot destroy quickly. But when Soviet Union was around, does anyone think it was a coincidence that the Americans and Russians were very, very, very cautious about any situation which could lead to trouble between them? Sure the N-weapons were a big restraint. Even without them, however, caution was the word.
*

After WW2 ended, some Americans - Patton being the best-known among them, - foretold it was better to continue the war and finish off the Soviet Union while it could be done, because US would have to fight the Soviets sooner or later. He was right, but 90% of American and we are sure 99% of British generals didn't want to take the enormous, open-ended risks that would ensue. Can we honestly say they were wrong to be cautious?
*

The best use of military power is its non-use. You should be able to get everything you want without firing a single shot by convincing the opponent he loses no matter what he does. At one stage, in medieval times, that's how wars were fought. Armies would maneuver as on a chess-board, a few conclusions would be tried, and one side or the other would concede. They were not being cowards, they were being sensible. In modern times World War I is perhaps the best example of how the actual down-spiral to war gained no one anything.
*

So that India has four more mountain divisions and is likely to get at least three more, perhaps even more, should not be an occasion for anyone to think of war. Instead, India should be working to convince the Chinese, look, no matter what you do, there is no good outcome for you. So you may as well back off.
*

If you look at things this way, you'll see what's happening between the west and Iran is war by other means. Not a shot has been fired, but both sides are maneuvering to show the other: "Do your worst, you're gonna lose. So don't start".

[Shameek]

All in a days work - Post 7

VIPER FLIGHT

Viper 2 checked his grid co-ordinates. They were at their refueling point. He looked into the dark sky to try and make out the bulk of the tanker. The PAF had recently acquired the IL-78 tanker similar to the IAF. Gone were the days when the IAF would smirk at their poorer neighbors. He believed the PAF today had parity on every known capability that existed with the IAF. They even had an AWACS on board a SAAB aircraft. For whatever reason, it was out to sea off the coast of Karachi today. He wished they had AWACS support for this critical mission.

Soon, he spotted the familiar navigation lights of the big Illushin aircraft. He carefully positioned his aircraft behind the big tanker for the refueling procedure. Viper 3 did the same next to him. Lights on the drogues would guide them to the correct spot. Once they were done Viper 4 and 5 would follow suit. Lockheed Martin had modified the refueling probe for the Indian MRCA competition. The Indians did not choose the F-16, but the PAF gained in being able to use the probe and drogue system with the IL 78 tanker. Once the aircraft had its fill, he disengaged and made way for Viper 4 to take his place.

Eventually, all four planes were refueled. The tanker disappeared into the night. Viper flight went back to its mission.

SARGODHA AFB, PAKISTAN

The General mused over the events that had led to this day. They were on their way. So far so good. He hoped all seven pilots did their job well today. He had personally selected the best that they had based on the discussions with the air chief. However, he needed only one of them to actually succeed. Once that happened, the world would wake up to the power of his country. He would also silence the hardliners within the country who claimed he was too soft and weak. The Islamic world would be proud of him. And finally, the loathsome Indians would be taught a lesson they would never forget.

He peeled another orange from the fruit basket in front of him. Locally known as ‘kinnow’ they were a speciality of the area. For a brief moment his thoughts wandered as he thought about taking a basket back to his family. His daughter loved them. And considering the quality of the fruit he enjoyed given his rank…

The door slammed. The loud noise jerked him out of his reverie. He glared angrily at the young officer who had entered the room. He was about to reprimand the man when he spoke, ‘Sir, they are done refueling’. The General’s countenance changed perceptibly. He suddenly felt a little out of breath. It was the feeling one has right before sitting for an important examination. A great deal depended on this day for him.

[Chinmayanand]

Great write up.Hope the frequency of the posts increase.

[ashdivay]

I want Tank battles !

[aditya.agd]

Now that Pakistan has 2 AWACS platforms and possibly acquire 2-3 more will change the dimensions with India. India will have to quickly increase the numbers and quality keeping in mind 2 simultaneous wars.

Now suppose that China initiates military incursions in Ladakh and Aksai Chin..... what happens to indian response?

[nits]

Awaiting for next posts... Shankar Sir... Where are you its long time we get our due

[Ajit.C]

We have got a lot of pending scenarios
1) Vivek Ahuja's
2) Shankar
3) Vivek Sharma
4) Shameek

Gentlemen please complete the scenanrios that you have started.

[harish_ch]

Shameek ji...Awesome buildup..Please post more frequently sirji...

[vivek_ahuja]

Gentlemen,

Do you believe it might be possible to restart my earlier scenario without offering too much disruption to the current scenarios? I am open to the idea of continuing on my blog separately in case it helps prevent a confusion between the ongoing story-lines.

-Vivek Ahuja

[pralay]

Gentlemen,

Do you believe it might be possible to restart my earlier scenario without offering too much disruption to the current scenarios? I am open to the idea of continuing on my blog separately in case it helps prevent a confusion between the ongoing story-lines.

-Vivek Ahuja

sure ahuja saar.
We were eager to kick chinky asses

we will enjoy your scenarios for sure

[rohit.mohite]

Sir I am reader for this forum for last 7-8 months , and visit this site almost every day .

your post are most amazing so kindly countinue with your scenarios.

I am most eager to know fate of Captain Kongara and his men in laddakh.

[ashthor]

Bring it on vivek saar... the sooner the better

[Bala Vignesh]

Gentlemen,

Do you believe it might be possible to restart my earlier scenario without offering too much disruption to the current scenarios? I am open to the idea of continuing on my blog separately in case it helps prevent a confusion between the ongoing story-lines.

-Vivek Ahuja

Most Definitely yes... I guess it may not be necessary to separate the scenarios as most are used to following multiple scenarios in one thread... But if its convenient to you then go ahead...