Intelligence & National Security Discussion

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Apr 2010 21:41

sivabala wrote:
sum wrote:....
Could you please point out the approx chapter number/page where Indian references come?
Google books says page 222 and 223

Thanks a ton. Found the info and wolfed it down!!!

Posting the relevant excerpt for jingoes not having read the book. Enjoiee:

Probably the best place within the entire region to install a listening
post is the Indian city of Mumbai. It represents the kind of location where
the NSA would seek to establish a secret presence; it is also an example
of how many people may now be tapping into private phone calls and
e-mail worldwide. From a listening post in Mumbai, eavesdroppers could
listen to conversations between Europe and Asia, for example.
Mumbai contains the central switch for virtually all the cables in the
Middle East and much of Asia, including FLAG, FLAG Falcon, SEAME-
WE 3, and SEA-ME-WE 4. SEA-ME-WE 3 alone is the longest
system in the world at over twenty-four thousand miles—the distance
around the earth. It has thirty-nine landing points in thirty-three countries
on four continents, from Western Europe (including Germany, England,
and France) to the Far East (including China, Japan, and Singapore) and
Australia. Some of the cables connecting in Mumbai also have links to
Iran, Pakistan, and other countries of great interest to the NSA.
The Mumbai switch is owned by VSNL, part of the Indian government.
A few years ago the Indian NSA, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW),
proposed tapping into it, according to Major General V. K. Singh, a former
top official for RAW. “Sometime in 2000–2001,” Singh said, “someone
in RAW proposed that monitoring equipment should be installed at
the VSNL gateway in Mumbai. When I joined RAW in November 2000,
the project was still being discussed.” VSNL, he added, “agreed to provide
the facilities for installation of the interception equipment, but expressed
misgivings about the presence of RAW personnel and equipment
in its premises, which were frequently visited by foreign members of the
consortium [that owned the cables].”
To alleviate the company’s concern, RAW suggested that the company
buy and install the equipment themselves and then apply for reimbursement
from the intelligence agency. But while the company found the
arrangement agreeable, Singh himself was troubled. “I had felt uneasy
about the project right from the beginning,” he said. “It would have been
okay if we were going to intercept traffic going from or coming to India.
One could always justify this on the ground that we wanted to monitor
traffic related to terrorism . . . But the SMW 3 [Southeast Asia–MiddleEast–Western Europe cable] was also carrying traffic that had nothing to
do with India. What right did we have to monitor a call between a person
in Germany who was talking to someone in Japan? . . . I expressed my
misgivings several times . . . What we were planning to do was clearly
another form of illegal interception. In fact, it was worse because we
would not only be violating our own but also international laws. I was
surprised when I found that other people in RAW not only disagreed but
scoffed at my ideas.”
General Singh was relieved when VSNL became privatized and was
sold to the very large Indian company the Tata Group, thinking that the
new company would not want to get involved in illegally spying on its
customers. “But apparently this did not happen,” he said. Agreements
between the company and the government were signed. Singh left RAW
in 2004, and he does not know if it is continuing. “But the fact that it
was planned and approved raises many questions,” he said. “Intelligence
agencies need to be reminded, occasionally, that they are working not for
themselves but the country and its citizens, who must never be humiliated
by their actions.”

All i can say is wow..

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Apr 2010 21:44

Another excerpt from the book:

More recently, the Indian government has become alarmed at the realization
that BlackBerry users are able to evade its digital dragnet when
sending e-mail. As a result, the government gave the four domestic mobile
operators offering the service a deadline to detail precisely how they
route their users’ messages or have the system terminated. It is a preview
of what may eventually happen in other democracies, including the U.S.,
as eavesdropping becomes all encompassing.
A key problem for New Delhi officials is the fact that BlackBerry’s
encrypted e-mail passes through servers all based outside the country.
The system is licensed to India’s mobile operators by Research in Motion
(RIM), a Canadian company so confident in the security of its encryption
that it considers it virtually unbreakable. “Rumours speculating that
[e-mail] can be intercepted and read by the National Security Agency in
the U.S.,” RIM has claimed, “or other ‘spy’ organisations are based on
false and misleading information.” In an extraordinary move, in an effort
to resolve the impasse and prevent the mobile e-mail service from being
shut down, Canada’s electronic spies have agreed to help India’s RAW
intercept the BlackBerry messages.

The last sentence confuses me.

I recall reading in the papers that NTRO had cracked the blackberry cipher and had only then given permission to BB to start e-mail in India.

So, NTRO didn't do it and we approached the CSIS( Canadian intel) to help crack Blackberry cipher??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2010 02:22

How do you copy paste those pages?

Looks like that Gen Singh should never have joined raw as he isnt ready for intel ops. Its a pity folks get in who shouldn't be there.

He should bother about Indian laws. Why he bothers what the other laws say? Is he a spy or a conscience keeper?

External traffic monitoring is an essential right which is not proscirbed by Indian law.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 27 Apr 2010 07:38

CIA using violin-sized missiles in Pak

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Apr 2010 07:56

The Almanac of Al Qaeda

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... f_al_qaeda

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Apr 2010 08:38

ramana wrote:How do you copy paste those pages?

Looks like that Gen Singh should never have joined raw as he isnt ready for intel ops. Its a pity folks get in who shouldn't be there.

He should bother about Indian laws. Why he bothers what the other laws say? Is he a spy or a conscience keeper?

External traffic monitoring is an essential right which is not proscirbed by Indian law.

Ramana-garu,

Have the e-book with me.

Now that you mentioned it, it does indeed seem that Gen. Singh is spilling too many beans to even foreigners!!

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Apr 2010 09:46

Phonetaps likely part of electronic babel, 'passively' intercepted

Sources said that one reason for this denial could be that the conversations mentioned in the report — involving Digvijay Singh and Nitish Kumar — were, in all probability, captured in an electronic sweep during deployment of “passive interceptors” in Delhi’s diplomatic enclave.

All calls within 2-3 km of these interceptors are captured in the babel recorded and the brief snatches of conversations were picked up due to the fact that several state Bhavans are also nearby. Officials in NTRO’s communication interception cell recall that these conversations — like countless others — were only “scanned” but neither logged nor retained in the agency’s conversation bank.

Among agencies, the NTRO was the first to install the interceptors — which they called “Eagles” — inside SUVs and move them to border areas for gathering intelligence. These interceptors were meant to capture calls made by infiltrating militants who used Pakistani SIM cards. Of the countless conversations captured, the NTRO would then sift for that one valuable snatch — for example, one about a possible strike.

The first interceptors were assembled for the NTRO in 2005. Sources said that when then National Security Advisor M K Narayanan was given a demonstration of what these Eagles could do — at the agency’s Mayur Vihar facility — he is said to have urged extreme caution in the way in which these would be used given the wealth of information they captured in their huge electronic sweep. He asked for the equipment to be handed over to the Intelligence Bureau underlining that gathering domestic intelligence was NTRO’s mandate.

But the NTRO continued to be tasked with gathering inputs in border areas and moved the “Eagles” to trouble spots, say after the Batla House encounter, the Delhi blasts or more recently, the Pune blasts. With passive interceptors being devised for covering GSM/CDMA phones as well and their capabilities being enhanced to concurrently covering 256 channels or calls, the IB, Research and Analysis Wing, and local police agencies also procured them. The cost: depending on the customer requirement, between Rs Rs 1-10 crore each.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 27 Apr 2010 12:10

WHAT IF TERRORISTS / INSURGENTS ACQUIRE THIS?

THREAT TO INDIAN NATIONAL SECURITY
==============================

A cruise missile in a shipping box on sale to rogue bidders

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... dders.html

Defence experts are warning of a new danger of ballistic weapons proliferation after a Russian company started marketing a cruise missile that can be launched from a shipping container.

It is feared that the covert Club-K missile attack system could prove "game-changing" in fighting wars with small countries, which would gain a remote capacity to mount multiple missiles on boats, trucks or railways........

....Defence experts say the system is designed to be concealed as a standard 40ft shipping container that cannot be identified until it is activated..............

...."This is ballistic missile proliferation on a scale we have not seen before because now you cannot readily identify what's being used as a launcher because it's very carefully disguised.

"Someone could sail off your shore looking innocuous then the next minute big explosions are going off at your military installations." .................

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 12:28

ramana wrote:How do you copy paste those pages?

Looks like that Gen Singh should never have joined raw as he isnt ready for intel ops. Its a pity folks get in who shouldn't be there.

He should bother about Indian laws. Why he bothers what the other laws say? Is he a spy or a conscience keeper?

External traffic monitoring is an essential right which is not proscirbed by Indian law.

Please read the book before making such judgements. The excerpt posted by Sum is nowhere in the book, and essentially seems to be inaccurate paraphrasing in some news report. VK Singh's main comments on siting of listening posts were about Chennai, and how an unsuitable structure was chosen for the installation of certain VSAT terminals, simply because the building belonged to a RAW officer, and he demanded and received inflated rents for the it.

I've read VK Singh's book. He says nothing in it, which is not already out in the open. He has already proved this by asking for, and receiving without any complaint, RTI answers on all of the things that he has mentioned in his book. His contention is, that if he, as a common citizen, can ask for and receive this info through RTI, how can anyone contend that it is top secret stuff?

VK Singh was never appointed to perform "intel ops". He is an Army signals & communications engineering officer, and was appointed as head of the technical infrastructure maintenance and management of R&AW. He was by no means a "spy", and neither had any dealings with, not really made any mention of the "spy" part of the business, except for a brief mention of the Rabinder Singh case, since Rabinder Singh was at HQ, and was also a joint secretary, and he had had some brief informal interaction with him. So to chastise him for revealing "spy" ops, when he neither had any dealings with, nor really wrote about them, is counterintuitive.

If you read his book, he only specified things like where he saw extreme examples of corruption within the R&AW (mostly specifically to do with his deparment), and undue favoritism to tainted contractors by higher ups (also in procurement of items destined for his dept). Also examples of extreme inefficiency, and non performance of duty. As there is no parliamentary oversight of R&AW, his point is that high level officers are able to run the org as a personal fiefdom.

It is for this reason that he makes points about making R&AW accountable to parliamentary oversight.

Besides, Parliamentary oversight doesnt mean that everything is shown to everyone. Just that parliament has a right to know how the money that is spent on R&AW is being used. Else, as VK Singh specifies, sons and daughters of R&AW officers will continue to be educated at Harvard and Princeton at the public expense (and what is the real cost of the admissions to the National Security?). As an example, he points out the practice of listing children of senior officers as 'sources' while studying at western universities, and receiving free education abroad therefrom, as a perk to the officer as being a routine matter.

It is the duty of every honest and upright officer to point out crookedness when he sees it. He has done so. There is nothing wrong with it, in fact, to root corruption out of our intel agencies will only benefit our country, or else, there is nothing to check persons from selling out the national interest for personal benefit, in the absence of oversight!

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 27 Apr 2010 12:42

RAW is a very efficient organization.

What is required is a strong Counter Intelligence section, which should stop sleeping and generate EARLY WARNING.

It is foolhardy to even consider Parliamentary committee to monitor RAW

THIS SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR RAW
=============================

GLOMER DENIAL

GLOMARIZATION

GLOMER RESPONSE

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 12:49

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:RAW is a very efficient organization.

What is required is a strong Counter Intelligence section, which should stop sleeping and generate EARLY WARNING.

It is foolhardy to even consider Parliamentary committee to monitor RAW

THIS SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR RAW
=============================

GLOMER DENIAL

GLOMARIZATION

GLOMER RESPONSE

Forgive me, what is your evidence for this rather random blanket statement? Do you deny that there has been a rash of cases of corruption in the R&AW in the media of late? If noone is watching, will there not be misuse of facilities and money? Why is it 'foolhardy' to consider parliamentary oversight? Should the people not have the reassurance of knowing that at least their elected representatives know where their money is going, and approve? In that way, we can be sure that it is being used for the purpose that it is appropriated for, rather than for the personal benefit of a few officers?

While Im sure "GLOMERS" are delightful things (though I'm pretty sure you've misspelled it, and meant "GLOMAR", as in, from the GLOMAR response to FOIA queries on the Glomar Explorer affair), lets stick to the topic at hand for the moment, rather than this rather crude attempt to brush it under the carpet rapidly.

Alas, your Amity University credentials do not impress me into silent assent, Mr. Raghuvanshi. If you want to prove yourself here, do engage in some constructive debate, and do not simply use arcane references to obfuscate issues.

That aside, do tell me why you are advocating that RTI queries should be responded to through Glomar Responses? (for those of you who dont know, the CIA calls any response where it refuses to answer, a "Glomar Response).

In India, the RAW is already covered as an exempted entity under the RTI act, and cannot be queried under the act, EXCEPT, when the matter concerned is one of a) Corruption, and b ) Human rights abuses. I see no reason why ANY agency should respond with a "Glomar response", under these circumstances?

It may interest you to know, that the Armed forces are not an Exempted agency under the RTI act, though they have many secrets as well. If they can strike the balance between openness, and operations secrecy, why cannot the RAW, IB, NTRO, etc be open to scrutiny? In a democracy, thats how things work.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 27 Apr 2010 12:54

Bhaisaheb,

COUNTER INTELLIGENCE is the Name of the Game.

Need for the hour is a strong Counter Intelligence section.

Human Beings are vulnerable against the most lethal Intelligence tool called MICE

It does not matter whether it is NTRO / IB / RAW / XYZ

How many Intelligence officials cannot be penetrated by MICE

Everybody / Human Beings are vulnerable to MICE

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 13:02

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Bhaisaheb,

COUNTER INTELLIGENCE is the Name of the Game.

Need for the hour is a strong Counter Intelligence section.

Human Beings are vulnerable against the most lethal Intelligence tool called MICE

It does not matter whether it is NTRO / IB / RAW / XYZ

How many Intelligence officials cannot be penetrated by MICE

Everybody / Human Beings are vulnerable to MICE

Sirji, nobody is saying that counterintel is not the name of the game. I say our counterintel should be the best in the World. What does that have to do with parliamentary oversight? Are you saying parliamentary oversight = no counterintel? If so, I can tell you that the two have nothing to do with each other. Thats like saying parliamentary oversight = no air defense.

As to penetration by MICE, sorry sirji, this sounds a bit too indecent for me to respond to!

Sorry, Im being unnecessarily hard on you. You're right of course, Money, Ideology, Coercion and Ego (MICE) are of course something that are ever present in the govt (and corporate) environment, as you would know, and they are an interesting topic for discussion, and Im sure you will have good inputs as to the best ways to counter these issues.

My point above was, that VKS's book is not really very revealing in terms of secrets, since VKS's work was not in that sector of RAWs activities. The most revealing things in it were simply about the abuse of power and public funds that VK Singh finds repugnant, and the chalta hai babu culture which he was surprised to find, in an org which he thought would be very tightly run.

All I ask is, could you give us the benefit of your experience, and give us reasons why parliamentary oversight is a bad idea? I mean, apart from the usual stories of how politicians are useless, etc? And why would you advocate non response to RTI queries by intel agencies, even on the limited topics which are permitted in the India setup? Such as Corruption and Rights violations?

@Ramana: VK Singh's book, though officially banned, is available in most book stores. You could pick up a copy, it makes an interesting read! If you live in India, it can also be bought on most online stores.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 27 Apr 2010 13:40

Bhaisaheb,

It is about Leadership.

Remember the piss drinking PM who sacrificed Mukti Vahini operators loyal to India and we wonder why Bangladesh kicks us on our backside and cosy up to Pakistan.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Apr 2010 13:42

Please read the book before making such judgements. The excerpt posted by Sum is nowhere in the book, and essentially seems to be inaccurate paraphrasing in some news report. VK Singh's main comments on siting of listening posts were about Chennai, and how an unsuitable structure was chosen for the installation of certain VSAT terminals, simply because the building belonged to a RAW officer, and he demanded and received inflated rents for the it.

ASPaur-ji,

The excerpt is not from Gen V.K.Singh's book.

Its from "Shadow factory" ( book about the NSA) wherein the author has interviewed Gen Singh and is a direct quote.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 14:26

ASPuar-ji,

The excerpt is not from Gen V.K.Singh's book.

Its from "Shadow factory" ( book about the NSA) wherein the author has interviewed Gen Singh and is a direct quote.

Perhaps, but then it is his personal view after retirement, to which he is entitled. In his own book, he has made no such comments.

I've also read his other book, "Leadership in the Indian Army", which makes for a riveting and informative read.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 14:34

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Bhaisaheb,

It is about Leadership.

Remember the piss drinking PM who sacrificed Mukti Vahini operators loyal to India and we wonder why Bangladesh kicks us on our backside and cosy up to Pakistan.

What does parliamentary oversight have to do with the PM leaking information? Any PM with access to this info could do the same again? There are ample provisions in the OSA which will ensure that committee members do not leak info. But there can be no excuse for not making the usage of funds auditable by the representatives of the people.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 27 Apr 2010 14:36

Yes Bhaisaheb,

It was typographical error.

RAW should have Glomar Denial / Glomarization / Glomar Response

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 27 Apr 2010 14:49

Indian diplomat working in Pakistan arrested for passing secrets to Pakistan
Small report. Posting in full

India arrested a diplomat, working in the Indian Embassy in Pakistan for passing secret information to Pakistan, Geo News quoted Indian news channel Tuesday.
The female diplomat Madhuri Gupta, who was arrested from New Delhi, has been charged with giving secrets to Pakistan for at least two years.
She was second secretary in Press and Information Wing.

link

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 27 Apr 2010 14:49

ASPuar wrote:Please read the book before making such judgements. The excerpt posted by Sum is nowhere in the book, and essentially seems to be inaccurate paraphrasing in some news report.

IIRC Gen. V.K Singh's book does talk about VSNL network being used by our agencies and the worries people had when it was taken over by Tata. I would try to get the exact wordings some time during tonight.

I have got a copy of the book, and I also dont think too many secret stuff was revealed in it. The incident about internet snooping etc., was supposed to be happening right in the days when internet hit India (late 1990s, early 2000s). Ten years have already gone by.

V.K Singh did use the book to expose lots of bad practises in the agency. And he was quite critical about one of the chiefs (Amar Bhushan?). Some of the incidents he mentioned in the book, which I could recall:-

1. Intelligence agencies in remote posts using obsolete communication equipments. Total lack of "signalmanship" when it comes to maintenance of signal equipment. Total apathy to junior officers (by the seniors) who operate in inhospitable terrain, basically doing a thankless and risky job.

2. Monitoring stations placed in useless areas where signal reception is low. But the location is the home of an intelligence officer who claims a hefty rent

.

3. The Special Protection Group (SPG) raising a tender for getting communication equipments. The functional specificiations are written in such a way that only one radio manufacturer can provide the sets

. And this company already is suspected to have trogans placed in these wirless sets.

4. A professor and team developing a Internet traffic snooping software which did not work well initially. The professor got a national award soon afterwords

.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 27 Apr 2010 14:51

Lady Indian diplomat caught spying for Pak: Report

A lady diplomat working in the Indian high commission in Islamabad has been arrested for passing sensitive information.

Madhuri Gupta, second secretary in the press and information wing in the Indian high commission, had been involved in counter espionage for over two years, television channel Times Now said quoting highly placed sources.

Madhuri was detained in New Delhi after she was asked to return to the country to discuss details for the SAARC meeting, the channel said.

More details are awaited.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 14:52

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Yes Bhaisaheb,

It was typographical error.

RAW should have Glomar Denial / Glomarization / Glomar Response

But why?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 14:56

Sachin wrote:
V.K Singh did use the book to expose lots of bad practises in the agency.

As I say, an honest officer reporting the lacuane which he sees, can only improve the agency by removing corruption, and focusing attention on bad practices.

He also was amazed and surprised at the fact that top secret messages were passed on by messenger to the houses of senior officers, as there was no duty officer system for receiving messages. The fact that the "telegram" could be intercepted by interested parties, or could be seen by anyone while lying about the house, is apparently not of interest to anyone.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 27 Apr 2010 15:19

^ IFS Group B officer Madhuri Gupta was working in the press wing of the Indian High Commissioner, according to intelligence sources.

She was passing information for the last 2 years and according to intelligence sources lot of damage has been done..

RAW Station Head in Islamabad also under the scanner.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 27 Apr 2010 15:24

Per TimesNow, she got her info from RAW station head in Isloo and that officer is also under scanner.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 16:02

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 863761.cms

Indian diplomat in Pakistan arrested for spying

Times Now, Apr 27, 2010, 03.21pm IST

NEW DELHI: A senior Indian woman diplomat of the level of second secretary in the Indian High Commission in Islamabad, has been arrested for passing on Indian state secrets to Pakistan intelligence agencies for two years.

53-year-old IFS Group B officer Madhuri Gupta was working in the press wing of the Indian High Commission, according to intelligence sources. It is unlikely that she was a lone spy operating on her own. But there is so far no confirmation of any others arrested or interrogated. According to sources, simultaneously, the station head of Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) in Islamabad R K Sharma has also come under the scanner, PTI has reported.

Home secretary G K Pillai said Gupta had been passing information to Pakistani agencies. "She has been arrested," he said.

According to sources, Gupta, a spinster, is alleged to have been taking information from the RAW station head in Islamabad, which was passed to the Pakistani spy agencies.

The sources said that the role of Sharma had also come under scanner for allegedly abusing his position and passing information to Gupta. However, it was not clear whether he knew the woman officer's real designs, the sources said.

The internal security establishment is extremely cagey about the role of Indian diplomats abroad. The four independent anonymous sources, who confirmed this information to TV channel Times Now, were reluctant to reveal exactly what kind of information the alleged mole was privy to. However suffice to say for now that the officer may have been on the pay-role of the Pakistani establishment, and was allegedly passing on crucial strategic information belonging to Pakistan.

The Ministry of External Affairs sources said an official statement will be given out the complete facts in the case. However sources did mention that Gupta, who is also believed to be an Urdu interpreter and a staffer for 30 years who has served in Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Islamabad, has confessed to the crime.

This is the first-ever case of a senior Indian diplomat being arrested for such a crime. What is more, Indian agencies believe that the 45-year-old is just a part of a massive Pakistani spy ring and there may have been others in the Indian diplomatic establishment also engaged in espionage. Currently the exact nature of the inducements to Gupta for her services is not known.

But the revelation is shocking and will have wide ramifications, coming as it does as the SAARC summit is underway at Thimphu in Bhutan and will doubtless have to be taken up with Pakistan at the highest level. The extent of damage done will also have to be assessed.

"She is in the information wing, which is isolated from the political wing and not in the most vital departments and could not have been privy to the most sensitive of documents. However it is a penetration. We earlier had a penetration by East Europeans, but this is a first from Pakistan," said former MEA secretary K C Singh reacting to the news.

Gupta was apparently being tracked for nearly a year by the Indian government both in Islamabad and in New Delhi at her residence, before being carefully brought over to India on the excuse of SAARC related work. She was detained in New Delhi four days ago, and interrogated by a special group comprising members of different agencies like the Intelligence Bureau, RAW and Delhi police, before being arrested. A court remanded her to further police custody of another five days on Monday.

Government sources say Gupta, who was liaising officer between Indian and other embassies in Islamabad, has risen through the ranks and was engaged in espionage for the Pakistanis for about two years. She has been produced in a local court in East Delhi where she stays, and remanded to 10 days police custody.

"I am not trying to discriminate on the basis of class, but a person who has not been properly trained and brought up in the values of the services can perhaps be more susceptible to foreign inducements easily. Nevertheless, given the fact that all those working in Islamabad know that they are under watch and being targeted by Pakistani intelligence which is on the lookout for chinks - that they were able to penetrate the embassy is shocking," said Union minister Kapil Sibal. He said it was imperative to ascertain what information had been leaked.

Speaking in the development, Times Now strategic affairs expert Mahroof Raza said, "The Indian government would have found it extremely difficult to hold an Indian officer in the High Commission if she was working for the Pakistani government. She would be having patrons in the Pakistani system who would make it extremely difficult to get her back and put her through legal and administrative proceedings. This is perhaps the first time an Indian diplomat has been caught spying overseas and working against Indian interests. This gives a completely different dimension to Pakistan's desire to know what India is up to on foreign policy."

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 27 Apr 2010 17:10

I agree with AS Puar

its nto fair to cast aspersions on VK singh based on someone else's book

In his own book he has tried to disclose shady dealings.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Apr 2010 17:12

53-year-old IFS Group B officer Madhuri Gupta was working in the press wing of the Indian High Commission, according to intelligence sources. It is unlikely that she was a lone spy operating on her own. But there is so far no confirmation of any others arrested or interrogated. According to sources, simultaneously, the station head of Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) in Islamabad R K Sharma has also come under the scanner, PTI has reported.

Home secretary G K Pillai said Gupta had been passing information to Pakistani agencies. "She has been arrested," he said.

According to sources, Gupta, a spinster, is alleged to have been taking information from the RAW station head in Islamabad, which was passed to the Pakistani spy agencies.

The sources said that the role of Sharma had also come under scanner for allegedly abusing his position and passing information to Gupta. However, it was not clear whether he knew the woman officer's real designs, the sources said.

This should put paid to any thoughts of RAW not having a "official" presence in Indian embassy in Isloo as has been speculated all this time in BR ( rediff reports that there are "at least" 10 spooks in the embassy from all agencies)

A mole in an Indian mission can do great damage

Madhuri Gupta, second secretary in the press and information wing of the Indian High Commission in Islamabad, has been arrested on a charge of working for a foreign intelligence agency. She was called to New Delhi [ Images ] ostensibly on consultation duty in connection with the SAARC summit opening in Thimphu on April 29 and taken into custody after her arrival.

Apparently, she was not aware that she was under suspicion. If she was, she might not have come to New Delhi. Instead, she might have fled to some other country to escape arrest and interrogation as Major Rabinder Singh, an alleged mole of the Research & Analysis Wing, did in 2004.

It has been reported that Home Secretary G K Pillai, has confirmed her arrest. He has not given any other details. There are two possibilities -- she was either working for Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence or for the intelligence agency of a Western country through its intelligence officer working under the cover of a diplomat in Pakistan. I would not rule out the second possibility. Western intelligence agencies, particularly the Central Intelligence Agency, had in the past tried to recruit Indian diplomats posted in Indian missions abroad through blackmail or offer of money or offer of resident status in their country. Madhuri Gupta is reported to be an unmarried woman in her 40s.

The ISI normally uses money or blackmail for recruiting India [ Images ]n diplomats posted in Pakistan. In the 1980s, when Rajiv Gandhi [ Images ] was the prime minister, the ISI had allegedly recruited a senior Indian Armed Forces attache by trapping him with the help of an attractive woman in Karachi and then blackmailing him with her help. He was called back to India under some pretext and removed from the armed forces. He was not prosecuted.

If she had been working as a service agent, she would have caused immeasurable damage by enabling the agency that recruited her to collect electronically a lot of sensitive intelligence. It would never be possible to quantify and assess the extent of damage caused by her. She herself would not know since she would be unaware what kind of intelligence had been going on to her controlling officer through the gadgets which she had planted in the Indian High Commission on his direction.

In the 1970s, a British woman had been recruited by the Indian Embassy in Paris to work as a telephone operator. She had helped the MI-6 (the British intelligence service) in clandestinely recording the telephone conversations of all Indian diplomats posted in Paris. She had caused considerable damage before she was detected and sacked.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 27 Apr 2010 18:33

More on the Madhuri Gupta spy saga from B Raman

Madhuri Gupta, the indian diplomat arrested for spying in the Indian mission in Islamabad [ Images ], may not have access to sensitive information, but she has access to the high commission and could have planted transmitting devices and tapped phones, writes B Raman.

Madhuri Gupta, second secretary in the press and information wing of the Indian High Commission in Islamabad, has been arrested on a charge of working for a foreign intelligence agency. She was called to New Delhi [ Images ] ostensibly on consultation duty in connection with the SAARC summit opening in Thimphu on April 29 and taken into custody after her arrival.

Apparently, she was not aware that she was under suspicion. If she was, she might not have come to New Delhi. Instead, she might have fled to some other country to escape arrest and interrogation as Major Rabinder Singh, an alleged mole of the Research & Analysis Wing, did in 2004.

It has been reported that Home Secretary G K Pillai, has confirmed her arrest. He has not given any other details. There are two possibilities -- she was either working for Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence or for the intelligence agency of a Western country through its intelligence officer working under the cover of a diplomat in Pakistan. I would not rule out the second possibility. Western intelligence agencies, particularly the Central Intelligence Agency, had in the past tried to recruit Indian diplomats posted in Indian missions abroad through blackmail or offer of money or offer of resident status in their country. Madhuri Gupta is reported to be an unmarried woman in her 40s.

The ISI normally uses money or blackmail for recruiting India [ Images ]n diplomats posted in Pakistan. In the 1980s, when Rajiv Gandhi [ Images ] was the prime minister, the ISI had allegedly recruited a senior Indian Armed Forces attache by trapping him with the help of an attractive woman in Karachi and then blackmailing him with her help. He was called back to India under some pretext and removed from the armed forces. He was not prosecuted.

If the allegations against her are correct, Gupta might have been recruited by the agency which was using her either as an information agent or as a service agent. An information agent consciously supplies intelligence to which he or she has access. A service agent facilitates an intelligence operation of the recruiting agency in various ways.

As a Second Secretary in the Press and Information Wing, Gupta might not have had much access to sensitive intelligence. But, as she was working in the high commission, she would have had access to various offices in the Indian High Commission for performing furtive tasks such as planting bugs in the offices of the high commissioner and other diplomats, attaching transmitting devices for transmitting the telephone conversations of the high commissioner and others to the officer who recruited her etc.

If she had been working as a service agent, she would have caused immeasurable damage by enabling the agency that recruited her to collect electronically a lot of sensitive intelligence. It would never be possible to quantify and assess the extent of damage caused by her. She herself would not know since she would be unaware what kind of intelligence had been going on to her controlling officer through the gadgets which she had planted in the Indian High Commission on his direction.

In the 1970s, a British woman had been recruited by the Indian Embassy in Paris to work as a telephone operator. She had helped the MI-6 (the British intelligence service) in clandestinely recording the telephone conversations of all Indian diplomats posted in Paris. She had caused considerable damage before she was detected and sacked.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 27 Apr 2010 18:47