Intelligence & National Security Discussion

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sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ From B.Raman-garu's blog:
At this stage the media seems to have come to know of her detention and interrogation. There has been a welter of confusing and contradictory reports in the media---- much of it, in my view, based on leaks from the Ministry of Home Affairs on the eve of the SAARC summit starting at Thimpu, Bhutan, on April 29. It has been suspected for some time by well-informed observers that the MHA does not subscribe to the reported interest of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in the resumption of a composite dialogue with Pakistan. Details of the case, as they emerge, will strengthen the MHA’s feelings about the futility of a composite dialogue with Pakistan at present till Pakistan gives up its hostile attitude to India..


3. The Prime Minister himself is unlikely to allow this case--- despite its being a serious embarrassment---- to influence his decision whether the time is ripe for a resumption of the composite dialogue. His decision will be influenced by Pakistan’s stand on the question of anti-India terrorism from Pakistani territory and not by Pakistani intelligence agencies recruiting Indian agents. They have been doing so since 1947. So have we. Intelligence agencies are meant to collect intelligence. Human intelligence demands recruitment of agents.
Is MMS a Manchurian candidate or what? Why this overwelhming desire for lovemaking despite Paki perfidy!!!
The picture is far from clear regarding the history of her alleged relationship with the Pakistani intelligence and the damage caused by her. In the welter of speculative reports appearing in the media, what attracted my attention was a piece of information----as yet unverified--- that she was actually recruited not by the Inter-Services Intelligence, our usual bete noire, but by Pakistan’s Intelligence Bureau (IB),
Interesting..
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Venu »

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:In the Intel game, it is highly recommended that once we know that one is working for Pakistan, maintain DECEPTION and feed information what we want to feed.

The intelligent people in India are so desperate for Butter Chicken and Scotch Whiskey that even when they catch a terrorist cell, instantly they have to wag their tail in front of the Media for titbits of butter chicken / scotch whiskey

When a terrorist / insurgent is caught, why publicize and let other terrorists / insurgents know that their person has been caught.

Even if this woman was a agent, WHY ADVERTISE in Media? :P
I presume you must be talking about the ATS chief's revelation about a terrorist master mind. You have to note that, ATS is different from IB. IB sleuths usually won't do such things in haste. ATS is just another branch of state police just like crime branches and CID but to deal with terrorist related issues, hence are not well abreast on how to handle the things.

Part of the reason why police branches will usually make much noise and finally end up caught having foot in mouth is because first they want to prove that they are also a capable force to the public who has a very impression on police departments. second, lack of the knowledge on how severe the complications can be when they tom-tom the things. This is due to lack of a proper channel to pass info from IB and RAW to local police departments. Infact this information gap is so serious that there are few instances where police came in the way of IB secret operations :)

I read some time back that Mumbai police has arrested a wanted don in the airport when he is about to board a flight to dubai. It came out later that this particular underworld don has been hired by intelligence sleuths to eliminate one Mr.dawood ibrahim :mrgreen:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Venu »

ramana wrote:Guys cut out mud slinging and wait for more info to develop.
Roger that.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by skaranam »

Guys:

B Raman & G. Parthasarathy were on HT to thrash this issue out.

G.Parthsarthy says:

1. There is no way this lady could have access to sensitive information. He says this because she is a low level officer and her task is usually to read local urdu publications and perform an analysis. This analysis is deemed classified. Reports that she has access to minutes of meetings are false. She does not have access to them. However, by interacting with other staff in the embassy she could have know as to hot topics being discussed. This information might have passed out.
2. No one is above suspicion in any embassy.
3. The ISI has surveillance on every embassy staffer bumper to bumper.
4. Usually staffers whose status is single are not given postings - this is a deviation.
5. She asked for posting in Pakistan.
6. The tenure for each posting is 3 years and they are shunted out.
7. One of the information that was asked by the Paki IB was the list of Indian assets in Pakistan. This information does not rest with a single person in the embassy. Most of the assests are flown to India and are de-briefed.
8. RAW has no presence in Pakistan.

B. Raman says:

1. She has been recruited by Pakistan IB and not ISI.
2. She was introduced to Paki IB by a well known senior journalist.
3. Her usage of Official computers to pass information is remote due to constant monitoring.
4. She could have used personal laptops. However, irrespective of which computer she is using it is a failure of cyber-security.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anujan »

Thank you skaranam-ji

This clarifies things a bit. Also I think that GP meant to say "RAW has no presence in Indian embassy in Pakistan". That is plausible or atleast it is something that a person of his position would typically say :mrgreen:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

RAW has no presence in Pakistan.
:mrgreen:

Would assume GP meant the Embassy in Pak and not entire Pakistan. But, then what explains the constant name throwing( by the DDM) of R.K.Sharma as RAW station chief in Isloo?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by skaranam »

sum wrote:
RAW has no presence in Pakistan.
:mrgreen:

Would assume GP meant the Embassy in Pak and not entire Pakistan. But, then what explains the constant name throwing( by the DDM) of R.K.Sharma as RAW station chief in Isloo?
The name RK Sharma was thrown by the journalist Harinder Baweja of HT. However, GP says no RAW presence at the embassy. Initially it was supposed to a love triangle and grudge against senior officials. Her statements with respect to Shri RK Sharma have been found false.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anujan »

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/diplomat-has ... ml?from=tn
New Delhi: Madhuri Gupta, the Indian woman diplomat under arrest for allegedly spying for Pakistan's spy agency ISI, has disclosed the identities of Indian intelligence officers posted as diplomats in Islamabad.
Gupta has also mentioned names of intelligence officers posted in some Indian embassies in South Asia and Middle East, sources in the government have told CNN-IBN.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

ArmenT wrote:
shyamd wrote: 4 - ISI asked for something she couldnt deliver or refused to do, so they blackmailed her and mailed a copy to Delhi of everything (transcripts, pictures etc of her involvement)
I don't think this option is that likely. Why let the opposition know that they've been penetrated and reveal the source. That makes the job of the counter-intel folks so much easier because they can figure out what info that person had access to and make damage control so much more easier.
Question for you, read who sent those pictures of that navy guy in Russia in compromising positions with a woman.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Philip »

Let us not underestimate the damage that she has caused.Even "low level" officers by virtue of their presence in a foreign mission have access,legitimate or not,to v.sensitive info.At diplomatic soirees,once the booze flows tongues wag,even when within the restricted confines of in-house gatherings.The amount of info that one can pick up by merely "being there" cannot be underestimated or ridiculed.In addition,she could've very easily bugged the premises and restricted areas of the mission where supposedly secure meetings/communications are conducted.She would've known the pattern of in-house "sweeps" for bugs,etc.By revealing the pattern of behaviour of her colleagues,it would be easier for the enemy to monitor thir movements and thus enabke them to discover local contacts passing on info to key officers of the mission,especially those in the intel field.Every scrap of info,gossip,etc. is of value and "HUMINT" is the best form of intel,far superior to Elint/Sigint,as it gives insigt into the minds of people at the helm of affairs.

By revealing the human behavioural chacteristics of her fellow colleagues,who had a weakness for women,or men even (!),honey-traps and other devices could've been used to compromise other staffers.Simple stealing of letterheads,seals,visa stamps,handing over passports,etc.,could be of immense use to the enemy in forging documents to be used in sending over agents/terrorists into India.I remember some time ago,a restricted tel. directory used in the MOD reportedly had a "buyers" pricetag of 1 lakh!

In recent years,there has been an outpouring of scandal and airing of filthy linen in our intel setups,R&AW,IB,MI,etc.We now have the MEA to add to the list.One of the most repetitive features in these revalations has been the personal and subjective reasons for problems rather than there being objective reasons fopr the same.In the administration and functioning of these outfits,objectivity and integrity seem to have been dumped into the waste paper basket,with greed and rampant self0interests replacing the country's interests first.Books and articles written by ex-spooks have revealed a sad shabby state of affairs in what should be the most important of all instiututions in the country,that of intelligence and the foreign service,which are on the frontline in defending the country's interests.In the manner in which Pak has been deliberately obfuscating over the dastardly attacks of 26/11,perhaps this traitor has had a role to play in the aftermath of the event and the moves on the diplomatic chessboard in the game being played between both countries.Pak by her treachery,could've been forewarned of India's stand on the issue just as was Lanka forewarned of India's role in it affairs when we had another traitor in our midst,a senior R&AW operative who was a CIA double agentwho fell victim to the "honey trap".

...and on the subject of "honeytraps",just enjoy these delicious "titbits" from the land of its origin,Russia!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -bait.html

Amateur model known as 'Katya' revealed as Russian honeytrap bait
Ekaterina Gerasimova has piercing blue eyes, an innocent girl-next-door face, and likes to do a little amateur modelling.

EXcerpt:
But if her "victims" are to be believed, she is the Kremlin's most effective secret agent and a latter-day Mata Hari.

Her mission, it is claimed, is to discredit prominent Kremlin critics by luring them into compromising situations using vintage KGB honey trap techniques.

Offering her own body, sex, and drugs from cocaine to marijuana as an inducement, "Katya" as she is usually known has tried and often succeeded in bedding at least half a dozen high-profile Kremlin critics.

The reputational damage she has inflicted has varied from serious to negligible depending on her victim's marital status and response.

Her latest victim was Viktor Shenderovich, a journalist and the script writer on Russia's now defunct version of the Spitting Image TV satire.

Mr Shenderovich, who is married and has a daughter, admits that he slept with Ms Gerasimova but claims he was set up by the Kremlin.

Though he has tried to laugh the incident off, his credibility as an authoritative critic of Vladimir Putin, the prime minister, appears to have been at least partly dented by the sting and his marriage is now reportedly in trouble.

The editor of Russian Newsweek magazine also fell under Ms Gerasimova's spell and was filmed in his underpants chopping up what looked like cocaine after having sex with her.

A clutch of anti-Kremlin opposition figures and activists including a man who looked like the leader of the radical National Bolshevik Party have also been caught in flagrante delicto with the twentysomething model.

But unlike Soviet times when the secret service used compromising material or 'compromat' as it was known to blackmail, Ms Gerasimova's exploits have been widely publicised in grainy and heavily edited videos on the internet
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

ISI has increased its spending on Indian moles
The arrest of Madhuri Gupta, the mole in the Indian establishment, has highlighted the fact that the Pakistan government had increased the budget for such operations from Rs 10 crore to Rs 25 crore, just six months ago.

Intelligence sources told rediff.com that the specific reason for the Inter-Services Intelligence to increase the spending is largely due to India's [ Images ] continued presence in Afghanistan. The ISI has constantly been trying to tap Indian officials in order to gather information on India's plans in the Afghanistan, since Pakistan too has a major strategic interest there. In the aftermath of the London [ Images ] Conference, Pakistan felt that India would take a more aggressive stand on Afghanistan and the Pakistani establishment feared losing its strategic control over Afghanistan.

IB sources said that the Pakistan establishment had sanctioned Rs 10 crore per year to the ISI to bribe moles in order to pull out information. However six months ago, during a discussion the ISI had made it clear that they needed an increased budget since Indian officials who could be bribed demanded more money. It was readily agreed that the funding would be increased and the limit was then raised to Rs 25 crore per annum.

The ISI has a large network which focuses exclusively on tapping foreign officials. They have a set of handlers who operate and find officials who can be corrupted. Madhuri Gupta's handler is believed to be a man called Rana, who managed to coax her into sharing information. It is also believed that she was romantically involved with Rana, which made his job much easier. Each officer who is on deputation to Pakistan is shadowed by ISI agents. In Gupta's case, it was relatively easy as they managed discern that she was unhappy with her income. They set Rana on her trail who managed not only to suborn her but also get romantically involved with her.

The ISI not only traps such officers, but also sets up a bank account for them in Pakistan and transfers money into it. In Madhuri's case, such a bank account was set up and used to transfer funds to her accounts in India.
Take it FWIW
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Whatever RK Sharma is, if he is a professional permanent cadre R&AW officer, he would not be passing on info to anyone, let alone a 2nd secy.

But I am told there are cases of bullying by the diplomatic side, of R&AW officers, to force them to do things for the IFS side, which they ordinarily would not want to, or it would not be prudent for them to. And since the Ambassador writes their ACR's, while they work in embassies, it often succeeds these days.

I think that R&AW officers ACR's should remain with the R&AW secretariat, to avoid situations where persons who are not well versed with the methodology of the intel services are not able to interfere with their work.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sumeet_s »

Spy Madhuri Gupta was hoping for a London or Washington posting: DNA

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sp ... ng_1376595
"I should get London or Washington," a confident Gupta told PTI few months back. Gupta had earlier served in the Indian mission in Baghdad and said she was looking forward to another good posting sometime later this year.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by alok_m »

http://www.timesnow.tv/Madhuri-Guptas-t ... 344027.cms
TIMES NOW on Wednesday (April 28) learnt that Madhuri had a Godfather in the Ministry of External Affairs. According to Government sources, it's believed that the god father was sympathetic to Madhuri Gupta.

Sources also add that this could be the reason Gupta was posted in Islamabad. Finally sources say it is very unusual that a single woman is posted in Islamabad.

Meanwhile, a day after TIMES NOW broke the story of an Indian Diplomat at its embassy in Islamabad providing details to Pakistani intelligence services, more facts have emerged on the issue. Sources revealed that Madhuri Gupta had four contacts in Pakistan, who were introduced to her by her ISI handler.

Sources have told TIMES NOW that while in Pakistan, Madhuri used to meet her contact in Markaz Super Market, also called Jinnah Market Islamabad. Sources added that she met four contacts, who were introduced to her by the ISI handler. This meeting took place in a Café Iffy restaurant in Islamabad in January 2010.

Accordin to the source, Madhuri Gupta last worked in India as Assistant Director in Indian Council of World Affairs (ICWA), Sapru House .

The newest development in the matter comes just hours after news that investigations into the Indian counter espionage case have begun to center on gathering evidence to reveal the real identities of Indian diplomat Madhuri Gupta's Pakistani handlers.

According to sources, Gupta, a Grade-B IFS officer had been receiving large chunks of money from the ISI which she deposited in a Pakistani bank and that the money was then transferred to Indian banks as regular pay offs received from the Inter Services Intelligence.

The Pakistan foreign ministry says it has received no information through official channels of these developments, and washed its hands off the matter saying it involved an Indian national on Indian sovereign territory.

Sources say fifty-three-year-old Gupta, who was arrested five days ago in the capital, has confessed to passing on Indian state secrets to Pakistan's ISI for about two years since she joined the High Commission in Islamabad.

After Gupta's arrest, another senior Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) official has come under the scanner for allegedly passing information to Gupta. According to Sources, R K Sharma, the Station Head of the Research and Analysis Wing in Islamabad, is under the radar for allegedly passing on vital information to the arrested Indian Diplomat Madhuri Gupta.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by alok_m »

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... sting.html
Madhuri Gupta, the 53-year-old second secretary at the Indian High Commission here who has been arrested on charges of allegedly spying for Pakistan, was hoping for a plum diplomatic posting in either London or Washington.

"I should get London or Washington," a confident Gupta told PTI few months back. Gupta had earlier served in the Indian mission in Baghdad and said she was looking forward to another good posting sometime later this year.

Gupta made friends easily and was great with small talk. She could talk about clothes, hair styles or Pakistan's Urdu press - "where the real news was" - with equal ease.

"English newspapers are boring. They always pick up news a day late. If you want to read real news, real gossip, read Urdu newspapers," she told this correspondent once.

Gupta learnt Urdu in New Delhi shortly before she was posted to Pakistan in late 2007. She hired a Muslim woman as a private tutor to teach her.

"She taught me from scratch. I didn't even know my 'alif-bays'," said Gupta, who had earlier learnt another foreign language at Jawaharlal Nehru University's school of languages.

Gupta spoke perfect Urdu and could have easily passed off as a Pakistani because of her accent. Like locals, she was always well dressed, make-up in place, her hair coloured and looked younger than her age.

"I bought this in Lajpat Nagar on my last trip to India," she said when friends recently praised her stylish new coat.

Gupta sometimes came across as brash and fearless, especially when she regaled friends with tales of driving to India via the Islamabad-Lahore motorway, often at breakneck speed. "I did the Lahore motorway in three-and-a-half hours," she would tell friends, most of whom admired her guts for driving to and fro alone.

Most Indian diplomats travel in groups or with their families on such drives to the Indian border.

The small Indian community of diplomats and staff of the High Commission in Islamabad would also bank on Gupta for getting them firecrackers or Holi colours on her trips to India.

"I will get natural colours, they won't harm your skin," she announced before a planned Holi celebration to those who didn't want to play with colours.

On a picnic to the picturesque Pir Sohawa viewpoint overlooking Islamabad sometime ago, she decided to be spokeswoman for a group of Indian women when a Pakistani woman entered their bus in the parking lot and asked if they had a cassette of 'bhajans'.

While most of the women were wondering how the Pakistani lady had figured out that they were Indians, Gupta dealt with her politely but firmly, ensuring that she got off the vehicle. "You give us your address and we will send you a cassette," Gupta said, taking the woman's address.

When she returned from her last trip to India, she told friends: "I am so tired. There is so much to do when you are in India. There is no time to relax. I feel I am back home now."

Gupta was quick to notice the expression on her friends' faces following her remark. "Home is where you live. Good or bad, this is home," she laughed out loud.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

DDM scales new heights.

TimesNow asking "How can Pakistan Help"? in re Madhuri Gupta case.

1. By sharing details of the money trail
2. By revealing names of her handlers
3. By admitting that she was in their pay

I wonder where we collect our so called reporters from. What idiot thinks that after pulling off an intel coup, Pakistan will "reveal" all this info? The ISI must be laughing their heads off!
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Sachin »

ASPuar wrote:DDM scales new heights.
Also note the liberal use of the word Sources in the report. This word does not give any official corroboration was these news channels are blabbering. But it is presented as if Times Now and all those assorted media have their own parallel spy agency, with "sources" in IB and RAW as well :roll: . News Media especially TV channels have started blabbering any non-sense in order to get the attention of the viewers.

I hope folks in Police SB, IB, RAW etc. are smart enough to recognise these "Sherlock Holmes-in-disguise" (investigative journalism) and provide them only useless information, or which can deliberately be misleading.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

The height ( or depth) of DDM can be guaged when TimesNow reporter caught up with Pak FM Qureshi in Thimpu and is asking him about what info he has on the mole and doesn't this expose Paki perfidy( on what grounds, im unsure)?

Qureshi just laughed it off and said that a Indian lady was arrested in India by Indians and so why was the reporter asking him leading to the anchor raving and ranting about how Pak was once again exposed( again unsure exposed in what sense?) !!! :roll: :roll:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sumeet_s »

Behind India's Bust of a Pakistan Spy

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 39,00.html
"Her spy game was up the moment a Joint Secretary — an IB officer — inside the Islamabad mission suspected her around October 2009 and reported back," a high-level IB case officer in New Delhi told TIME. The IB launched a massive counter-intelligence operation, in which even its counterparts in the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), the country's external intelligence agency, were kept out of the loop.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ From above article:
She was even fed with incorrect information to be passed on to her Pakistan handlers, suspected to be from the Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI).
As many in BR had suspected, our spooks aren't as dumb as imagined to look away from a opportunity.

The fact that she was pulled back though she could have continued to feed dis-information is :

1. The same reason TIME gives, namely to send Pak a message that no mood to talk ( Surely, the Thimpu meet would have been overshadowed by this news and MMS love-making attempt would have been thwarted by MHA)

2. Our spooks sensed that the game was ending ( ISID/Paki IB were wising to the ploy) and reeled her in before she did a Rabinder Singh.

3. pakis themselves discarded her after finding her info useless and so ideal time to recall her.

4. All the dis-information SDREs wanted to feed to the pakis was done and objective was accomplished
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

After all the dust settles you will find that it was MMS that pulled the plug on the lady spy. The timing doesn't match otherwise.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AnimeshP »

ramana wrote:After all the dust settles you will find that it was MMS that pulled the plug on the lady spy. The timing doesn't match otherwise.
I have a feeling that it might be someone other than MMS who pulled the plug here ... Here is my reasoning for this:
- IB is under the control of MHA
- RAW reports into the PMO
- If the Time magazine report is correct, RAW was left out of the whole operation and it was handled by IB.
- Now, if media reports leading up to the SAARC summit are true, MMS might have been OK to re-open some kind of dialog with Pakistan.
- Those opposed to talks release this info just on the eve of the summit, make sure that DDM goes into overdrive about Pakistani perfidy thereby reducing the room for manoeuvre for MMS.

The above scenario may be true if all the assumptions I have listed are true.
But again, for all we know, ramana sir could also be right ... :)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

CI is IB mandate. It exists only for that and keeping tabs on local politicans. Internal security inside raw is its own function but nation wide CI is IB mandate.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

ASPuar wrote:DDM scales new heights.

TimesNow asking "How can Pakistan Help"? in re Madhuri Gupta case.

1. By sharing details of the money trail
2. By revealing names of her handlers
3. By admitting that she was in their pay

I wonder where we collect our so called reporters from. What idiot thinks that after pulling off an intel coup, Pakistan will "reveal" all this info? The ISI must be laughing their heads off!
What? :shock:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Yup. Saw it on TimesNow 9PM news. :-?

This is what happens when a reporters brains have been reared on the Gujaral doctrine, and MMS-speak. The circuitry shorts, and an idiot is born.

Meanwhile, when "confronted" by timesnow's elite cub reporter squad in Thimphu, the Pak Foreign minister grinned, and said "I dont know any more about this than you do. How can I comment on an Indian diplomat arrested by Indian police on Indian soil"?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

DDM is so dumb that they make Rehman Malik and Qureshi look smart. :roll:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by rsingh »

sumeet_s wrote:Spy Madhuri Gupta was hoping for a London or Washington posting: DNA

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sp ... ng_1376595
"I should get London or Washington," a confident Gupta told PTI few months back. Gupta had earlier served in the Indian mission in Baghdad and said she was looking forward to another good posting sometime later this year.
This is rona dhona of every diplomate posted abroad. EU,US,Australia and Japan are "A" class postings. Even aam embassy chaprasi wait for that moment. Some try to time A class posting with first year of college of brats. And then brat stick to A class :)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Carl_T »

But doesn't all the interesting stuff happen in the other embassies? :) I had thought that diplomats would be more keen towards that!
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by praksam »

Spotlight on army officer, RAW agent as arrested spy sings

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sp ... gs_1376870
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Prem »

Who was her God-abbu in foreign ministary and what is the name od 'senior Juornalist' who introduced her to Paki handler?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

sum wrote:
JE Menon wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/books ... key-t.html

The shadow factory is worth reading. Has a few interesting things to say about India.

Another interesting bit of info for those newbies not quite in the picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-Opti ... _the_Globe
JEM-garu,

I have the shadow factory with me and have read almost 3/4th of the book but couldnt find reference to Desh.

Could you please point out the approx chapter number/page where Indian references come?

Sorry sum, just saw this... am out of home base... As soon as I get back I will get you the exact page numbers on the hardcover version...

OK, ignore... just saw others have helped out. Thanks guys.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Sen_K »

Madhuri deeply resentful of IFS, her arrest blew R&AW officer’s cover
She named two handlers Mubashir Rana and Jamshed who she claims were introduced to her by a Pak journalist in 2008 but their names haven’t been verified.
While the damage done by her is still being ascertained, the government is worried over how her case has been handled by security agencies here. For, in a major faux pas, authorities exposed R K Sharma, Press Counsellor and senior officer of India’s external intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), in Pakistan, while sharing information with the media on Wednesday. Senior officials admit the revelation has caused a major embarrassment.

It has made the continuance of that officer in Pakistan untenable and with his identity exposed, he is no longer in a position to carry out his job. In fact, the revelation has jeopardised his chances of any similar assignment ever.
Questions are also being raised over the timing of the disclosure about Madhuri Gupta’s espionage activities, coming as it did just a day before the Prime Ministers of the two countries were to meet in Bhutan on the sidelines of the SAARC summit. Gupta had already been under detention for five days before the news broke out and sources said the investigators probably chose a wrong time to let the information become public.
Why let out RK Sharma's name to the press? Anyways, it is news only to the Indians and not the Pakis :roll:
Sen_K
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Sen_K »

Mata Hari Madhuri breached protocol
Foreign ministry officials in India suspect that protocol was broken while considering Madhuri Gupta as a member of India’s High Commission.
MEA sources said the High Commission had become lax under Satyabrata Pal the former High Commissioner. “As an attaché or second secretary, you are not authorised to interact with representatives of the local community. Madhuri really seems to have been carried away,” an MEA official said.
A year ago, Sharat Sabharwal took over as High Commissioner and began reining things in. It was he who first began tracking Gupta’s interactions with locals.
Former foreign secretary Kanwal Sibal added, “At least she did all this out of spite for the IFS as opposed to a love of Pakistan.”
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Ankit Desai »

Pakistan's IB is back in action
The picture is far from clear regarding the history of her alleged relationship with the Pakistani intelligence and the damage caused by her. In the speculative reports appearing in the media, what attracted my attention was a piece of information -- as yet unverified -- that she was actually recruited not by the Inter-Services Intelligence, our usual bete noire, but by Pakistan's Intelligence Bureau.
The IB was gradually militarised by inducting an increasing number of serving and retired military officers into it. This militarisation gathered momentum under Pervez Musharraf . For all practical purposes, the IB became an appendage of the ISI.
The present director-general of the IB, Javed Noor, used to be the inspector-general of police of Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir [ Images ] when he was appointed to head the IB in May 2009.
Ankit
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Kati »

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100429/j ... 393495.jsp

The lady has two to three flats in Noida and Delhi, and didn't have any family responsibilities.
Wonder whether those flats were allowed to be used as safe houses. ........
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Old but interesting ( and disturbing article):
The Vanished Spies

The wheel has come full circle at the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). Already reeling under the impact of the Rabinder Singh episode—the senior RAW officer is suspected to have defected to the US—there may be more skeletons tumbling out now at India's premier spy agency. For the first time, the firm has admitted that eight of its key operatives have gone missing—almost all while on critical assignments outside the country— since the agency's creation in the late '60s.

The Rabinder Singh episode shook RAW out of its reverie. a backlash was expected.... Rabinder is the ninth such known man on the defectors' list (accessed by Outlook).

The file with the names is now on the desk of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Most of the cases go back a few decades but some names are likely to cause deep embarrassment in the spy community. Most of these operatives disappeared while on posting, relocating themselves to countries in North America and West Europe under assumed names and false passports. A number of them, it now turns out, were well-guarded 'assets' in the hands of foreign agencies, a euphemism for double agents, and are now green card holders in the United States or UK citizens.
Prominent among the names is Sikandar Lal Malik, personal assistant of RAW founder and superspy, Ramnath Kao. Malik, say RAW sources, was privy to the top-secret decisions taken by Kao during the tumultuous early '70s, including the plan to "liberate" Bangladesh. On a US posting, Malik disappeared one fine morning and is presumed to be living somewhere in that country now. His defection was a closely guarded secret for many years and is only now being acknowledged as a 'blow' to the agency's reputation.

According to sources, it took the agency several years to assess the damage caused: Malik had crucial information because most of Kao's highly secret correspondence was handled by him. For foreign agencies, which otherwise had little access to Kao, the 'winning over' of Malik was a coup. This, because with Malik went a treasure trove of classified information, which may not have been known to anyone other than Kao himself and his boss, the then prime minister, Indira Gandhi.

Other operatives on the missing list:

* M.S. Sehgal, a senior field officer close to former RAW chief Girish Saxena. Disappeared while posted as attache in London in 1980.

* N.Y. Bhaskar, a former attache in Tokyo, managed a green card; was supposed to be liaisoning with the cia. Later, disappeared without a trace in the US.

* B.R. Bachhar, senior field officer, disappeared in London. As attache in Kathmandu, he was liaisoning with foreign intelligence agencies in the early '80s.

* Major R.S. Soni, an undersecretary in RAW on the Pakistan desk at HQ, is believed to have escaped to Canada in the early '80s. Three months after escape, salary was still being deposited in his account.

* Shamsher Singh Maharajkumar, an ex-IPS officer posted in Islamabad, Bangkok and Canada. Reportedly settled in Canada after retirement. He's related to the royal family of Nabha in Punjab.

* Ashok Sathe, a former attache at Ulan Bator in Mongolia and the lone Indian counsellor in Khurramshahr, Iran. Even as his bosses were debating whether he had or had not defected to the cia, he vanished. He's also suspected of arson—the RAW office in Khurramshahr burned down, destroying all crucial papers.Said to be living in California now.

* R. Wadhwa, personal assistant to Balkrishnan, former RAW No. 2, disappeared in London in the early '90s.
MI6 and CIA have really wrecked havoc with RAW!!! :eek: :eek:

Missing in the list is the mole in the NSC discovered 2-3 years back(??) ( haven't been able to ID the person yet)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

^^From the telegraph article:
Her frequent visits to the Jinnah supermarket and an upmarket cafe called Iffy to meet her contacts were videographed. The sources said Gupta would frequently meet the same four suspected ISI contacts.
Indian spooks videographed ISI personnel in Pak? Is that a coup or what?? ( given the news of how even a fly in the Indian embassy is aggressively tailed by Paki intel)!!
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Good article. Posting in full ( almost) :
Tinker translator spy
More than two decades ago, a young Indian Foreign Service (IFS) officer, a Muslim, requested the then foreign secretary, to whom he was particularly close, for a posting in the Indian Mission in Pakistan. The foreign secretary was politically well connected. He had himself asked the officer whether he had a destination in mind for his next job.

Assigning officers to Pakistan wasn't easy those days. The procedure was rigorous. The selection for some posts required clearance at the highest level. His tenure drawing to a close, the FS was keen the proposal got the nod before he demitted office. So he took up the matter with Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.

She heard him in silence at the first instance. But on a later occasion she dissuaded him from persisting with the matter. The way she revealed her mind left wiser the veteran diplomat, who executed the country's foreign policy in those peak years of the cold war. The PM began by assuring the foreign secretary that she trusted his judgment. But her faith in intelligence agencies wasn't all that implicit. One adverse report against the officer the FS was pushing for the job could destroy his career beyond repair, she said.

The officer, who couldn't make it to Pakistan, told me this story — not by way of running down intelligence organisations, which tend to be more cautious than correct, but to illustrate Indira Gandhi's realistic approach to administration. He took the point sportingly and later held other coveted assignments.

La Affaire Madhuri Gupta has rattled the foreign policy establishment to its core. Viewing it purely from the espionage angle — as to what her handlers got out of the diplomat they compromised through the lure of money or honey — could mean missing the wood for the trees. The breach has to be studied from the perspective that made Indira Gandhi reject the idea of a young Muslim diplomat working in the Indian Mission in Pakistan.

The former premier wasn't the least troubled by the officer's faith. Her concern was about his vulnerability in a situation where hostility begets hostility. "Look around and you'd see many retired diplomats including those who have served in Pakistan breathing fire against it in private conversations and TV debates," remarked an intelligence expert. He said Gupta could be compromised because she was so obviously vulnerable: Single, middle-aged and a huge temperamental misfit on a tangibly inimical and lonely beat. Initial reports have also suggested the IFS (B) (subordinate to the Group A service) officer could have acted out of a "pathological dislike" she admitted having for the stiff-upper-lip first-rung foreign servicewallah.

There was no immediate confirmation. But Gupta has had face-offs with her IFS superiors including one who is currently India's ambassador in an important Islamic country.

A former Indian envoy to Pakistan who later made the grade in politics saw the Gupta case as a systemic failure. "Islamabad isn't a normal posting. It's like being sent to a war zone. Those selected to serve there are warned and asked to be on guard. The officer must have been very stupid or very unhappy with her life or her job," he said.
Former Intelligence Bureau director Ajit Doval agreed. He said: "It's not about gender. It's about selecting the best, the brightest and the toughest for sensitive foreign assignments."

"An officer may be extraordinarily bright. But will you send him to Pakistan if he's an alcoholic," asked Doval. His question rang a bell. Very much recorded in South Block's institutional memory is the case of an intelligent but tame-hearted scribe who hit the bottle in Islamabad's psychologically punishing work environ. The foreign office advised his recall when things started getting out of control in a country where liquor isn't available off the shelf. Another journalist who spurned inducement in return for information on Indian diplomats was denied visa extension and had to return home, prompting a friendly Indian official to remark: "You were for them a burnt-out case …"

The motivational levels of Pakistani sleuths know no bounds. They'd go to any length to keep the Mission staff and scribes looking over their shoulder. The Indians too do their bit. But their tactics are covert; lacking the hallmark rough and ready approach of Pakistani agencies. There have been complaints in the past of their operatives following diplomats' spouses into shops selling ladies' undergarments.

It's hard to miss the surveillance mounted at the Indian Mission, residential quarters of its staff and the Indian High Commissioner's official residence in Islamabad. Such high-profile envoys as J N Dikshit and S K Lambah experienced bumper-to-bumper surveillance of their flag-cars.

Lambah's spouse Nilima Lambah's hugely readable Recollections of a Diplomat's Wife (Roli Books, 2008) records episodes affording instructive peeps into the mindset of ISI agents and their lesser Pakistani cousins. Sample one: On the arrival of Group Captain Pervez Hamilton Khokker as air advisor in the Indian embassy in the early 1990s, the hosts became suspicious of his first and last names, which were so typically Pakistani.

The name troubled them more because the Pakistan High Commissioner to New Delhi at the time was Riaz Khokker -- a street-smart Punjabi who once accused L.K. Advani of practising witchcraft (while actually meaning to use the word 'witch-hunt'). The hosts' protestations had no bearing on the IAF official, who refused to be known as anything other than Pervez Hamilton Khokker. At official Pakistani dinners, he'd either have the nameplate "Group Captain Hamilton" changed or skip the meal. The Khokker story, as related by Nilima Lambah, has lessons for a long-term view on the staffing of the Indian outpost in Pakistan. ...
Didnt understand the part of the muslim IFS officer being denied Pak posting. Why did IG nix it? Is it because he would meet more muslims and turn over? :-?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

Lot of unneeded details coming out. When the issue is an IFS-B officer turning truant, why spill raw data? Looks lie the IFS posting system failed. Didn't some early IFS Ambassador think the spooks are a nuisance to his work?

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sum, Mrs G's concern was if he came in contact with anyone even if its innocent the adverse report(from the agencies) would kill his career. Why waste it on a useless posting?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

no, because he will be under more stress due to his religion than others would encounter, that, in an already stressful posting. you can bet your last paisa that the pakis would have gone on and on trying to crack the officer. however competent he may be, there is no pressing need to expose him to that kind of a situation. unless you want him in place as bait that is.
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