Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 Apr 2010 10:20

shiv wrote: India is more costly for US than Pakistan.

Very perceptive. Very very perceptive.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 28 Apr 2010 10:39

Manmohan wants normal ties, Cong not supporting him: Qureshi

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 866917.cms

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 10:40

The city of Sialkot where Shoaib is from is a "B" level city by pakistani standards. That'll be like a "C" level city by Indian standards.
Very poor infrastructure and potholed roads, no electircity most of the time is what Sialkot is like.
Add to that pakistanis - narrow minded and over-religious and overtly overly politically correct

My my what a difference from the city of Hyderabad!
And Sania mirza will be shuttling up and down from that city.

Yuck!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Apr 2010 11:17

abhishek_sharma wrote:Manmohan wants normal ties, Cong not supporting him: Qureshi

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 866917.cms

Another kick on India's face by the 2-bit scum bags, and India will just lap this up. Wonder what MMS's reaction to this would be.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Apr 2010 11:37

CRamS wrote:Another kick on India's face by the 2-bit scum bags, and India will just lap this up. Wonder what MMS's reaction to this would be.

C'mon!! Dont fall for the psyops and take these things seriously. If I were in the press, I would have asked for his deep insight about whether Azhagiri or Stalin should succeed Doctor Kalaingar Karunanidhi.

Gagan-ji, 2 Days in presidential suite and the she'll be off to Dubai.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 28 Apr 2010 11:46

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/jihadistan

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Apr 2010 12:13

The Pakistani Third Reich

Pakistan’s new generation nuclear weapons (nukes) are plutonium based—extracted from new nuclear reactors built for the very purpose. These weapons are compact and more powerful. Plutonium is also the basis for the hundred-times more powerful thermonuclear bomb. With this plutonium capability, Pakistan is well on its way to becoming a nuke factory.

The real question left unanswered is why Pakistan is making more nukes than it needs, and for what purpose. An insidious picture emerges from analyzing Pakistan’s theological focus and the likely funding source(s) behind its nuclear armament program.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2010 12:22

abhishek_sharma wrote:Manmohan wants normal ties, Cong not supporting him: Qureshi

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 866917.cms

Prey tell how Quereshi learns this interesting fact. Did he dream of MMS telling him that he wanted p i s s but kangress party is opposed to it. BTW How is the Indian PM separate from his political party.

PS doesn't every Indian Pm seems to want p i s s with TSP but his part always opposes him right??

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Apr 2010 12:45

X Posted. The UK’s Telegraph newspaper on the raving and ranting of the Islamic terrorist Hafiz Saeed on water:

Mumbai terrorist group threaten Indian 'water jihad'

Pakistani terrorists behind the Mumbai attacks have threatened to launch a fresh jihad against India over disputed water rights.

Rob Crilly, in Lahore
Published: 4:43PM BST 27 Apr 2010

The Indian and Pakistani prime ministers are due to meet on Wednesday amid escalating tensions over limited water resources.

Pakistan has repeatedly accused India of breaching the terms of a 1960 treaty governing the use of shared river systems, complaining that irrigation channels on its side of the border have emptied.

The issue has now been adopted by militants in Jamaat-ud-Dawah, widely regarded as a front for Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Jihadi group fighting Indian troops in Kashmir and responsible for the November 2008 wave of gun and bomb attacks that killed at least 170 people in Mumbai.

Hafiz Saeed, the founder of Lashka-e-Taibi and head of Jamaat-ud-Dawah, threatened a water war with India during a recent TV interview.

"Look at India's attitude, especially after the 9/11 attacks. It has taken advantage of Pakistan's weaknesses and made dams and stopped our water.

Pakistan, for its defence, will have to fight a war at all costs with India if it is not prepared for talks on Kashmir and water," Saeed said in an interview with Frontline, a private TV channel. ……………………

Telegraph, UK

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Apr 2010 12:46

X Posted.

Pakistani origin Syed Hashmi may have immigrated to the US when he was three and subsequently become a naturalized US citizen, however the early association with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have been enough to set him on that favoured Pakistani national career choice, IT aka International Terrorism:

Terror Suspect Pleads Guilty to Material Support Charge
Mark Hamblett

04-28-2010

A man who allowed a friend turned government cooperator to store camping equipment in his London apartment and then loaned him $300 to take it to an al-Qaida commander in Pakistan pleaded guilty late Tuesday on the eve of trial.

Syed Hashmi, 30, a Pakistani-born naturalized U.S. citizen, spared himself a possible life sentence by admitting to one count of conspiracy to provide material support or resources to the terrorist group. Lawyers for Hashmi and prosecutors reached a plea deal Tuesday, with the government agreeing to drop substantive material support and other charges and Hashmi accepting a likely sentence of 15 years in prison, which would have him free by the time he turns 40. ……………

Law.Com

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Apr 2010 12:53

CRamS wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Manmohan wants normal ties, Cong not supporting him: Qureshi

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 866917.cms
Another kick on India's face by the 2-bit scum bags, and India will just lap this up. Wonder what MMS's reaction to this would be.

CRamS, the situation is exquisitely murky ...

Sonia getting restless ... her apparently strained relations with MMS ... PC being targeted .... Sonia's apparent softness on Maoists ... TSP Army taking Indian journalists to Bajaur ...

These could all be coherent in some obscure way ... too early to say more.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Apr 2010 13:06

X Posted.

Yet another instance of targeted sectarian motivated Muslim on Muslim killing in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. This time around motorcycle borne assailants gun down a female professor of mass communication whose only crime seems to have been to belong to the minority Shia Muslim sect.

For a country that proclaims itself as having been created as a safe haven for the Muslims of the Indian Sub-continent, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is downright unsafe for those who belong to smaller Muslim sects.

Interestingly I have not come across any report in the Pakistani media disclosing the Shia identity of the victim. The below posted article is from the Iranian media:

Shia professor Martyrs by Insurgent Wahhabi in Pakistan

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Apr 2010 13:19

TSP Army probably realizes they are in major trouble, especially on economic front. They are trying to make some small gestures of reasonable behavior. But they are still very far from abandoning their Jihadist proxy war.

One should consider offering an adversary a face-saving way to back out, provided they really do want to back out. But there are no indications that there really has been any change in TSP intentions. MMS is perhaps over-eager.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 28 Apr 2010 14:50

Manmohan, Gilani to meet on Thursday in Bhutan

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 413672.ece

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 14:52

Pranav wrote:CRamS, the situation is exquisitely murky ...

Sonia getting restless ... her apparently strained relations with MMS ... PC being targeted .... Sonia's apparent softness on Maoists ... TSP Army taking Indian journalists to Bajaur ...

These could all be coherent in some obscure way ... too early to say more.

DDM can't distinguish a Prithvi missile from an INSAS bullet. The TFTA paki army afsars will show them some grenades and mortar shells (manufactured in Pakistan Ordinance Factory, Wah - I had posted a pictures many moons back showing that the alleged Indian weapons that Pakistan had seized were actually made in POF Wah) but labelled Indian mortar shells, and Indian grenades.

The DDM JNU educated journalists will come back and waste reams of paper and gallons of ink on how GoI and RAW are sponsoring terrorism in pakistan.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 14:53

Is Madam Gandhi angry with MMS?
If so then MMS could do a SES in thimpu and them resign after the uproar and hand power to Rahul baba.

I just wonder if Rahul baba becomes PM people don't start wishing MMS was PM instead.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 15:02

Pranav wrote:One should consider offering an adversary a face-saving way to back out, provided they really do want to back out. But there are no indications that there really has been any change in TSP intentions. MMS is perhaps over-eager.

How can one ever verify that the pakistanis mean what they say and will stick to agreements they sign?
For the last 60 odd years every time a new dictator come in the previous agreements are discarded. Promises of not indulging in terrorism have never been kept.
Now, the pakistanis are being armed to the teeth by the 3.5 friends and the bill is being footed by them.
They are not planning to back down any time soon.

Just as soon as Gen Ass-saaf kiya nahi thinks his military development is complete, i.e. enough to deter a military assault by India and the ability to hold off india for a few days, his LET terrorists will launch suicide attacks in J&K specially against the under construction hydro electric projects and target their personnel.

Things are building up to that scenario.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Apr 2010 15:20

Gagan wrote:Is Madam Gandhi angry with MMS?
If so then MMS could do a SES in thimpu and them resign after the uproar and hand power to Rahul baba.

I just wonder if Rahul baba becomes PM people don't start wishing MMS was PM instead.

Yeah, a change at this point would not necessarily be to the advantage of the SDREs.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Apr 2010 15:25

Gagan wrote:
Pranav wrote:One should consider offering an adversary a face-saving way to back out, provided they really do want to back out. But there are no indications that there really has been any change in TSP intentions. MMS is perhaps over-eager.
How can one ever verify that the pakistanis mean what they say and will stick to agreements they sign?
For the last 60 odd years every time a new dictator come in the previous agreements are discarded. Promises of not indulging in terrorism have never been kept.
Now, the pakistanis are being armed to the teeth by the 3.5 friends and the bill is being footed by them.
They are not planning to back down any time soon.

Just as soon as Gen Ass-saaf kiya nahi thinks his military development is complete, i.e. enough to deter a military assault by India and the ability to hold off india for a few days, his LET terrorists will launch suicide attacks in J&K specially against the under construction hydro electric projects and target their personnel.

Things are building up to that scenario.

Quite true ... Chai-Biskoot is OK, but nothing should given away. If, without giving anything away, TSP can be given an opportunity to back-track without losing face ... that is something that should be considered.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 28 Apr 2010 17:31

^^ But honestly What can MMS give away except for some useless joint statement. After SeS, I don't think MMS is going to sign any document with Pakistan.
Paki PM's,FM's and COAS have been playing these games with India for last 60 years.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 28 Apr 2010 17:40

Question is at what point TSP will cease to be even a mosquito bite, with or without tall mountain backing. And related question is at what point Tall mountain will find us much more than a pin prick and a real force to reckon with. Until then let this Aman tamasha go on.

After that simply obliterate TSP.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Apr 2010 18:07

The Islamic Bomb-Makers and The Islamic Bomb-Seekers ?
By B Raman

How to counter The Islamic Bomb-Makers and The Islamic Bomb-Seekers ?

That is the Question that should have been Addressed by the Nuclear Security Summit convened by President Barack Obama and being held in Washington DC on April 12 and 13, 2010.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Apr 2010 18:27

Sanku wrote:
shiv wrote: India is more costly for US than Pakistan.
Very perceptive. Very very perceptive.

Where did you come up with the figure of 1 Million? That is just the # of Indians in US. What about those who are employed in Infy Wipro.... all working for US clients. What about those scores of BPO handling back office and voice for US multinationals. I think the cost is pretty high.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 28 Apr 2010 19:27

Four pure gone...(+1 of course, the purest)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8648019.stm

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Apr 2010 19:34

Juggi G wrote:The Islamic Bomb-Makers and The Islamic Bomb-Seekers ?
By B Raman

Islamic bomb-makers? Islamic bomb-seekers? Has Sri Bahukutumbi Raman gone off his rocker? Am sorry to say that this is indeed the brazen display of fascist thinking, of blatant communal scare-mongering, of right-wing islamophobia that paints islam in a negative light, that learned commentators have previously warned this forum about.

IIRC, it was the same bahukutumbi who went all snarls on how this forum had gone communal-fascist right-wing sanghi only.

How times change and return to square one. Jai ho, I guess.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Apr 2010 20:06

The commercial profit making doctrine of the Pakistan Military in action with the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seeming to have succeeded in arm twisting the Supreme Court of Pakistan into muscling out the competition and clearing the way for the wholly Pakistan Military owned Fauji Foundation to snag a lucrative LNG supply deal.

Will France take note of this trampling of their commercial interests when they weigh up the pro’s and con’s of the supply of avionics for the Pakistani Air Forces JF-17 fighters given that the company muscled out is GDF-Suez in which the Government of France has a substantial equity stake? :

SC wants govt to revisit LNG deal

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Apr 2010 20:41

I don't usually subscribe to Stratfor's point of view, but this one seems to be fairly on the money.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010042897 ... india.html

Three Points of View: The United States, Pakistan and India

But now, U.S. and Pakistani interests not only appear aligned again, the two countries appear to be laying groundwork for the incorporation of elements of the Taliban into the Afghan state. The Indians are concerned that with American underwriting, the Pakistanis not only may be about to re-emerge as a major check on Indian ambitions, but in a form eerily familiar to the sort of state-militant partnership that so effectively limited Indian power in the past. They are right. The Indians also are concerned that Pakistani promises to the Americans about what sort of behavior militants in Afghanistan will be allowed to engage in will not sufficiently limit the militants' activities - and in any event will do little to nothing to address the Kashmiri militant issue. Here, too, the Indians are probably right. The Americans want to leave - and if the price of departure is leaving behind an emboldened Pakistan supporting a militant structure that can target India, the Americans seem fine with making India pay that price.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 20:44

Suppiah wrote:Question is at what point TSP will cease to be even a mosquito bite, with or without tall mountain backing. And related question is at what point Tall mountain will find us much more than a pin prick and a real force to reckon with. Until then let this Aman tamasha go on.

After that simply obliterate TSP.

I am afraid the answer is 'Never'.
That is a pain in the musharraf that we are saddled with. The 3.5 masters have that nation by the nuts. And they will squeeze out all but the last straws of blood out of them, if required even give them a blood transfusion, to make them continue to do their dirty work for them.

Pakistan and its Jernails have no other options. Those SOBs want to live a life of aplenty without doing the hard work of building a nation. Ghoos from 3.5 for whoring out their nation and the services rendered by them is the only way they see achieving that goal.

This will change when:
1. India continues to grow economically
2. India asserts itself politically on the regional and global scale

Essentially India needs to create great dependence on itself by the 3.5 masters and then give them the stark choice.
MMS and the PMs before him have sought the security council permanant membership as a route to creating that dependence. That was in the days when India didn't have much of an economy. Today being the 12th largest economy and one of the fastest growing economies gives India other options.

PS: One of the reason why Saudi Arabia is leaning towards India is it because they are trying to get nuclear weapons from Pakistan from the Pu Factories there, and they don't want to upset the regional goondas - India and China? Of course there are more economic imperatives that have prompted KSA, but again KSA wants a dependence created on them so that their going is easier and India doesn't object too much.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Apr 2010 20:46

Theo_Fidel wrote:I don't usually subscribe to Stratfor's point of view, but this one seems to be fairly on the money.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010042897 ... india.html

Three Points of View: The United States, Pakistan and India

But now, U.S. and Pakistani interests not only appear aligned again, the two countries appear to be laying groundwork for the incorporation of elements of the Taliban into the Afghan state. The Indians are concerned that with American underwriting, the Pakistanis not only may be about to re-emerge as a major check on Indian ambitions, but in a form eerily familiar to the sort of state-militant partnership that so effectively limited Indian power in the past. They are right. The Indians also are concerned that Pakistani promises to the Americans about what sort of behavior militants in Afghanistan will be allowed to engage in will not sufficiently limit the militants' activities - and in any event will do little to nothing to address the Kashmiri militant issue. Here, too, the Indians are probably right. The Americans want to leave - and if the price of departure is leaving behind an emboldened Pakistan supporting a militant structure that can target India, the Americans seem fine with making India pay that price.

India should create a huge price for anything against it. A major war which will shake up the global economy should be promised with any misadventure against India. Instead of a stabel AfPak there will be a global Afpak instability.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Apr 2010 21:01

Gagan wrote:Today being the 12th largest economy and one of the fastest growing economies gives India other options.

Actually we are the 8th largest.

The charts are rigged. Brazil, Russia, Spain and Canada mysteriously jumped from behind to ahead in less than 3 years.

For India to assert itself, esp. WRT to the Paki's we need a world class military. We don't have that yet.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Apr 2010 21:03

Two soldiers killed in North Waziristan clash

Two security personnel were killed and at least 13 injured in the latest clash in North Waziristan on Wednesday.

The casualties took place when militants attacked the ISA check post in North Waziristan. Four militants, which included three Uzbeks and a German, were also killed in the clash.

This is the second attack on Pakistan army personnel in North Waziristan in the past seven days. On Friday, seven soldiers, including an officer were killed and at least 16 injured as militants ambushed an army convoy in North Waziristan

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Apr 2010 21:14

Theo & Gagan, Which charts are you looking at?
Thanks, ramana

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Apr 2010 21:22

I think Gagan is looking at the IMF/World Bank/CIA list on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... nominal%29

I have posted on this distortion in the economy forum with a chart.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 29#p857529

archan · Post by **archan** » 28 Apr 2010 21:56

Theo_Fidel wrote: For India to assert itself, esp. WRT to the Paki's we need a world class military. We don't have that yet.

I don't know, perhaps all we need is first, public perception, and then political will (which naturally follows public demand). If the public is not perceptive of the real issues (like an article by R. Srinivasan said on the last page, IPL takes precedence over Chinese incursions or paki tricks), and the is happy with an unelected PM who will be satisfied by even a token action against 26/11 perpetrators by pakis, is hell-bent on bringing peace at any cost.. then no matter how good a military you have. They will soon start complaining about the military budget and how the money should be used for eradicating poverty (somehow), while crores will continue to be stashed in Swiss accounts or spent on statues of chief ministers.

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 28 Apr 2010 22:29

abhishek_sharma wrote:Manmohan wants normal ties, Cong not supporting him: Qureshi

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 866917.cms

Typical Paki divide and rule strategy. They tried it with Advani with the Kashmir deal too.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Apr 2010 22:47

archan wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote: For India to assert itself, esp. WRT to the Paki's we need a world class military. We don't have that yet.
I don't know, perhaps all we need is first, public perception, and then political will (which naturally follows public demand). If the public is not perceptive of the real issues (like an article by R. Srinivasan said on the last page, IPL takes precedence over Chinese incursions or paki tricks), and the is happy with an unelected PM who will be satisfied by even a token action against 26/11 perpetrators by pakis, is hell-bent on bringing peace at any cost.. then no matter how good a military you have. They will soon start complaining about the military budget and how the money should be used for eradicating poverty (somehow), while crores will continue to be stashed in Swiss accounts or spent on statues of chief ministers.

The public can be useful, but no where in the world is the public primarily involved with military policy. Including in the 800 pound Gorilla in the room.

It is best for the public to work hard and prosper and then think about strategic dilemma's we are faced with on the side. Not the the other way around.

Military policy should be decided by the civilian elites. As against the military elites in local TSP.

Also our Military-Industrial complex is not yet up to the task of equipping a world class military. Not sure when this will happen. No amount of money will change this.

TSP does not fear our military lethality, even though they know we can cut them in two in a matter of weeks.

If you look at Iraq, essentially 2 American divisions smashed through the entire country in 6 weeks. This is the sort of lethality we would need.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Apr 2010 22:49

Acharya wrote: http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010042897 ... india.html

Three Points of View: The United States, Pakistan and India

The Americans want to leave - and if the price of departure is leaving behind an emboldened Pakistan supporting a militant structure that can target India, the Americans seem fine with making India pay that price.

India should create a huge price for anything against it. A major war which will shake up the global economy should be promised with any misadventure against India. Instead of a stabel AfPak there will be a global Afpak instability.

I have mocked MMS for not being able to articulate this, in my mind he is a gone case; he is more of a "South Asian" than an India. But I may have articulated what I am about to say way back on this August forum, but the time for India to have stepped on the gas pedal was immediately following 9/11. This was when India offered logistic support to US to bomb Afghanistan, but Mush brilliantly seized the moment and said "me too" (Pakis don't even realize how much Mush saved their ass), and US decided to go along with TSP. There were clearly geo-political reasons for US accepting TSP's offer, the cold war hawks could not let go off a useful India containment tool in TSP, but perhaps there was logistical sense too in going with TSP's offer. But at that very moment, Vajpayee and "My friend Strobe" should have upped the ante, and they should have taken the nation along, namely, India accepts US sovereign right to seek TSP's help, but India will not accept an emboldened Pakistan supporting a militant structure that can target India as a result of its expedient decision to become an ally in the war on terror. As an example, consider the furious noises that TSP made about India's role in Afghanistan forcing US to take cognizance of TSP's paranoia.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 28 Apr 2010 22:51

Pakistan Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud is alive, says spy chief

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 23:26

CRamS wrote:Vajpayee and "My friend Strobe" should have upped the ante, and they should have taken the nation along, namely, India accepts US sovereign right to seek TSP's help, but India will not accept an emboldened Pakistan supporting a militant structure that can target India as a result of its expedient decision to become an ally in the war on terror.

CRamS garu,
Do you think ABV or MMS have not raised these issues with the americans?

The americans do what they are doing now inspite of sage advice by India. They are indulging in rank opportunism and political expediency of the worst order on Afghanistan. All this with the full knowledge that India will be left holding the pakistan and its jihadi time bomb mess to sort out.

What would you recommend India or its leaders do next?
We can't fight the Pakistanis or the americans overtly.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 28 Apr 2010 23:27

X-posting :
----------------------

Three Points of View: The United States, Pakistan and India