PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

archan wrote: Not only wages, you'd have to make them work like this in order to be compete with your competition who is abusing human rights of the poor Chinese while turning profit.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com ... 2800c8.jpg

Link to original article: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/445 ... 2c2d6f.jpg
I heard everyone in China takes an afternoon nap. Those two images were probably just that. Pretty cool work culture they got. May be we should adopt it too (in addition to our 2 hr lunch break & 2 * 1 hr tea breaks :mrgreen: )
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

wlin wrote:Why you think internet user is a big deal?
Internet is a great way to bridge the rural urban gap & raise the standard of living of people. This has tremendous implications for the developing world. Since China claims to be the world leader, its natural that other aspirants want to replicate. Internet is not just a utility, its a lifestyle. Assuming the numbers to be true, you can clearly see that it must have a major overlap with the blue collar demographic in the order of 100s of millions. I'm more interested in how China motivated the blue collar demographic to use the internet.

China's internet is a good model for India to look at, because of the similarities in size, income range, culture etc. There are also some unique cultural challenges which India faces. Unlike China, we did not adopt any "pinyin" like Romanization system. India has 22 official languages and designing unique keyboards is not a good idea. We need to have our own institutionalized pinyin for each language, which we dont yet. Urban India is well fluent in english. So nobody really bothered in taking the internet to the non english speaking rural population. As a result, internet eco system in native languages did not evolve in India. Thats not the case for other non english speaking countries. In China, internet evolved in mandarin and taking the internet to the villages is only limited by the logistics. In India, we face double challenge - to cater to the non-english population and also the logistics. Not to mention the demographic challenge. Other utilities such as TV, Fridge, Cell phone etc. doesn't require too much training. The same cannot be said of computers & internet. Thats why I'm interested to know how China achieved it.
wlin wrote:In Dongguan, the manufacturing hub, which got millions of migration worker and thousands of so called sweetshop. You may not know is there are also thousands of internet cafés in Dongguan with average size of 300 computers.

You may think the migration worker cannot afford it. The cheap netbook in China is 1000 – 2000 RMB level and good enough to surf the web. The following link is for cheap netbook which target internet users.
Thats a good point. Major population is focused in the urban centers and its easy to cater to them. But still, from this article, the impression I'm getting is that China faces pretty much the same problem India does. Not that the article is authoritative, but I can understand the similarities with India. But China has an advantage too because of non-reliance on english.
wlin wrote:It took at most two month savings for the sweet slave to buy one netbook and surf the net. So is that really such a big deal?
If I had to work 6*14 hrs a week, I certainly wouldn't have time for internet. Besides, China being a family oriented society, with so little free time the blue collar workers have, I dont understand why they would choose to spend it in an internet center or blow their 2 months savings away on something they would hardly get a chance to use, rather than spending it with their loved ones.

Chk this - e-readiness Index for 2009. China ranks at #56, just above India at #58. If China has 5 times larger internet users than India, surely it must rank higher, no ?
This means that majority of Chinese personal income got to the certain level to consume those products.
That should still be comparable with the rest of the world. If you take the mobile phone statics, it is pretty consistent. I dont see the same pattern in internet stats.

Cell phone subscriptions per 100 ppl

(or may be China is soooo in the "middle of the world" that it is beyond comparison ? :roll: Sinocentrism ! Take that geo-centric biatches :evil: )
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

Abhijeet wrote:Are the revenue figures of all the (several) major, publicly traded Chinese Internet companies faked?
So we have to base our conclusions only on the data published by public companies, where the major stake holder is the govt, audited by the govt and media also controlled by the govt ? :roll: Madoff like sh1t Pakistan happens even in economies where they have independent auditors and free media.
Abhijeet wrote:Are the revenues of the entire Chinese online game industry (the second largest in the world, after South Korea) an illusion?
So you can infer the total internet population by looking at the gaming population ? SoKo's national pop = 48M, China's total internet users = 384M :roll:

I'm surprised that SoKo & PRC are at the top. I would have thought US or Japan (being the home of Nintendo, Sony).
wlin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:52

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by wlin »

Agree with you, internet is a life style. But do not understand why you kept talking about Blue Collar. For average Chinese, after finished 9 year mandatory education, you basically have 3 options:
1, Go to high school. At the end of the path, you need take college entrance examination which is totally merit-based. You failed the exam, you become the so-called blue collar worker.
2, Go to professional school. That means you choice to be blue collar worker.
3, Go to work directly.

For each path, I did not see anything prevent blue collar workers not to be internet users. For few people, internet addiction may be the reason why they failed college entrance examination.

I saw your reference to wikipedia “Digital divide in Mainland China “. The reference list clearly shows the latest timestamp is Jan 2007. Some of them are last century articles. That pretty much explain everything.

For ereadiness index, I think it is just another version of global Competitiveness Index. China never ranks high in that list, but we still survive. About the cell phone subscription, I think the current cell user in China is about 700M, but that is not the point. I think for board band connection, the fixed line phone may be more related. China got 370M fixed line phone user serveral years ago, right now the fixed line number decline to 328M in 2009 but still a vast base. Plus China built cable system for almost every city community in 1990s. All these two things combine make board band connection ready. I do not see ereadiness report covered this story and probably they did not even acknowledge it.

For the 6X14 myth, do you really think all 400M non farm employees are working like that? It is typically brain washed thought. :) I know you guys will say I am brain washed but at least I know two sides of the story.

About how to promote internet, If you knew how average Chinese using internet, you may find the answer yourself. It may not be that good. There are basically three major internet usage in China. The first one is gaming. Abhijeet correctly mentioned this as an indicator of Chinese internet usage. I guess probably two-thirds of online internet users play some kind of internet game, at least play some MaJang, Go, Chinese Chess or playing cards online. The most popular genre is multi player RPG games. Most games related to Chinese classic literature. Like the game Westward Journey, the registered player account number for one single game can reach 100M and the record concurrent player number can be about 1 M.

The old business model is charged by hour rate like one RMB per hour. The current model is you played for free, but the weapon, clothes and other properties charged big bucks (of course you can earn it by hours of play). The total revenue of Chinese gaming industry is about 26B RMB (3.& Billion USD) last year. I think it is way underestimated because there is big grey economy associated with online gaming. Like so called “gaming sweetshop” which employees hundred of thousands people. People usually started online game from level 1 and reached high level after thousand of hours playing time. But if you want to become game master right away, you can purchase one master account from the market. You can buy everything in the game from internet. Wiki said there 100,000 Chinese “farmers” employed in this “gameing sweetshop”. I would say maybe more. There are a lot of interesting stories happened between gaming company, players and farmers.

The dark side of this is addiction. Near 40% of players are under 19, so no wonder fighting addiction is a forever task for government, school and parents.

Second use is social. I said before the record of concurrent user online for QQ is 100M. That is pretty tells you the scale. QQ virtual currency made People’s bank seriously thinking about regulating it. I do not think I need explain more for this.

Third usage is entertainment. All Chinese TV shows are online. After 2008, all TV shows I watched are online. CCTV has put all it programs online which is pretty good. You can go to cctv.com to verify yourself. I do not know how many English program they offered but all Chinese program are online. That is legitimate source, for illegitimate source, from US TV shows to Japanese *****, you name it, anything you know can be foundd online. I know people who got several TB Japanese ***** movies on his hard disk. And I know people who got every soccer game of preimer league (from 1980s) on disk.

The future usage would be internet shopping. The internet shopping has become big since the online payment issue solved. Taobao is the market leader and I guess Taobao eventually will go to global stage at some point in the future and then you guys can experience it.

naren wrote:
wlin wrote:Why you think internet user is a big deal?
Internet is a great way to bridge the rural urban gap & raise the standard of living of people. This has tremendous implications for the developing world. Since China claims to be the world leader, its natural that other aspirants want to replicate. Internet is not just a utility, its a lifestyle. Assuming the numbers to be true, you can clearly see that it must have a major overlap with the blue collar demographic in the order of 100s of millions. I'm more interested in how China motivated the blue collar demographic to use the internet.

China's internet is a good model for India to look at, because of the similarities in size, income range, culture etc. There are also some unique cultural challenges which India faces. Unlike China, we did not adopt any "pinyin" like Romanization system. India has 22 official languages and designing unique keyboards is not a good idea. We need to have our own institutionalized pinyin for each language, which we dont yet. Urban India is well fluent in english. So nobody really bothered in taking the internet to the non english speaking rural population. As a result, internet eco system in native languages did not evolve in India. Thats not the case for other non english speaking countries. In China, internet evolved in mandarin and taking the internet to the villages is only limited by the logistics. In India, we face double challenge - to cater to the non-english population and also the logistics. Not to mention the demographic challenge. Other utilities such as TV, Fridge, Cell phone etc. doesn't require too much training. The same cannot be said of computers & internet. Thats why I'm interested to know how China achieved it.
wlin wrote:In Dongguan, the manufacturing hub, which got millions of migration worker and thousands of so called sweetshop. You may not know is there are also thousands of internet cafés in Dongguan with average size of 300 computers.

You may think the migration worker cannot afford it. The cheap netbook in China is 1000 – 2000 RMB level and good enough to surf the web. The following link is for cheap netbook which target internet users.
Thats a good point. Major population is focused in the urban centers and its easy to cater to them. But still, from this article, the impression I'm getting is that China faces pretty much the same problem India does. Not that the article is authoritative, but I can understand the similarities with India. But China has an advantage too because of non-reliance on english.
wlin wrote:It took at most two month savings for the sweet slave to buy one netbook and surf the net. So is that really such a big deal?
If I had to work 6*14 hrs a week, I certainly wouldn't have time for internet. Besides, China being a family oriented society, with so little free time the blue collar workers have, I dont understand why they would choose to spend it in an internet center or blow their 2 months savings away on something they would hardly get a chance to use, rather than spending it with their loved ones.

Chk this - e-readiness Index for 2009. China ranks at #56, just above India at #58. If China has 5 times larger internet users than India, surely it must rank higher, no ?
This means that majority of Chinese personal income got to the certain level to consume those products.
That should still be comparable with the rest of the world. If you take the mobile phone statics, it is pretty consistent. I dont see the same pattern in internet stats.

Cell phone subscriptions per 100 ppl

(or may be China is soooo in the "middle of the world" that it is beyond comparison ? :roll: Sinocentrism ! Take that geo-centric biatches :evil: )
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

^^^^
How much of all that online activity is of any benefit to the PRC...
Online gaming may generate revenues, but as even you concede, it is only turning the young Chinese into addicts. From opium to RPG games, some things just dont change do they?
Secondly, all that piracy is not good for any society.
Online media may seem to be a good thing, but given that online content would be free, it only puts the media at the mercy of advertisers.
e-commerce has no future in China given that Chinese are still not comfortable with buying things online, this could be due to the poor internet literacy of the Chinese people or also that the Chinese people don't trust the online retailers about the goods being hawked by them (pity that most of the goods being hawked must have been madein China. It speaks volumes, when your countrymen dont trust your own goods.) Besides, the tuangou phenomenon, etc. will not allow online shopping to grow in China.

So in short, even if PRC actually has the numbers to show in terms of online presence (of course, as with most things Chinese, no proof will ever be available to back the incredible claims), the economic benefits are nil.
wlin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:52

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by wlin »

I agree. Not everything is good. You accept the good, you accept the bad.

For gaming, promote online game to teenager is criminal. Some company Giant is really evil. Government is trying to fight it, success or fail, we do not know. The Green Dam project targeted this but not very successful. Government will keep trying but it is easy to be classified as internet control. So where the fine line should be is always a question.

For media, you do not know what is CCTV, do you? They are at the mercy of advertisers? Good candidate for joke of the day.

The piracy is like an agent for West influence (with exception of Janpese pron). How to fix it? Do not know. There are many sites hosting those materials. Without a large scale action, there is no way to clear it. And with a large scale action, you can hear even louder outcry from West media. Things are very complicated, not simple black and white.
derkonig wrote:^^^^
How much of all that online activity is of any benefit to the PRC...
Online gaming may generate revenues, but as even you concede, it is only turning the young Chinese into addicts. From opium to RPG games, some things just dont change do they?
Secondly, all that piracy is not good for any society.
Online media may seem to be a good thing, but given that online content would be free, it only puts the media at the mercy of advertisers.
So in short, even if PRC actually has the numbers to show in terms of online presence (of course, as with most things Chinese, no proof will ever be available), the economic benefits are nil.
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by putnanja »

China may ‘crash’ in next 9-12 months: Marc Faber
SINGAPORE: Investor Marc Faber said China’s economy will slow and possibly “crash” within a year as declines in stock and commodity prices signal the nation’s property bubble is set to burst.

...
...
“The Chinese economy is going to slow down regardless. It is more likely that we will even have a crash sometime in the next nine to 12 months.”

...
Citigroup warned in March that in a “worst case scenario”, the non-performing loans of local-government investment vehicles, used to channel money to stimulus projects, could swell to 2.4 trillion yuan by 2011.

Housing prices nationwide may fall as much as 20% in the second half of the year on government measures to curb speculation, BNP Paribas said on April 23. Under a stress test conducted by the Shanghai branch of the China Banking Regulatory Commission in February, local banks’ ratio of delinquent mortgages would triple should home prices in the country’s commercial center decline 10%.
...
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

^^
wlin, can you give us a comparison of revenues of CCTV from online broadcasts and from TV broadcasts?
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

Wlin,

Lot of interesting things you said. Thanks for sharing.
wlin wrote:Agree with you, internet is a life style. But do not understand why you kept talking about Blue Collar. For average Chinese, after finished 9 year mandatory education, you basically have 3 options:
1, Go to high school. At the end of the path, you need take college entrance examination which is totally merit-based. You failed the exam, you become the so-called blue collar worker.
2, Go to professional school. That means you choice to be blue collar worker.
3, Go to work directly.
Well in India, being a computer literate is a privilege. It certainly opens lot of doors for you. You need not be doing hard manual labour if you know how to use computers. Again, as I said earlier, I'm more trying to figure out how to bring Internet to the blue collar demographic in India. (and take occasional jabs at China, dont mind me :mrgreen: ). This has tremendous economic benefit. I'm still trying to consolidate my thoughts & formulate a strategy. Will post in the telecom thread soon.
wlin wrote:I saw your reference to wikipedia “Digital divide in Mainland China “. The reference list clearly shows the latest timestamp is Jan 2007. Some of them are last century articles. That pretty much explain everything.
Agreed. But adding 100M users in a year is still a gigantic feat. Its more than the population of entire countries !!! If it is indeed true (which I have a very hard time in believing), then Indian companies certainly have great opportunities to look at.
wlin wrote:About how to promote internet, If you knew how average Chinese using internet, you may find the answer yourself. It may not be that good. There are basically three major internet usage in China. The first one is gaming. Abhijeet correctly mentioned this as an indicator of Chinese internet usage. I guess probably two-thirds of online internet users play some kind of internet game, at least play some MaJang, Go, Chinese Chess or playing cards online. The most popular genre is multi player RPG games. Most games related to Chinese classic literature. Like the game Westward Journey, the registered player account number for one single game can reach 100M and the record concurrent player number can be about 1 M.
Westward Journey as in "Journey to the West" ? Does the user reach India in the final stage 8). This is one direction India must look at too. India has really cool mythology, but unfortunately not many companies take it up for their theme. I think Sony (or someone) made a game on Hanuman. The last thing I'd want to see is foreign companies making a game on Indian classics. (Imagine this: Ram fights the Lankan dragon and kills it (dont ask how dragons got into Lanka). Fairy princess appears and says "Thank you Ram, but Sita is in another castle" :-? Doesn't sound very good)
wlin wrote:The old business model is charged by hour rate like one RMB per hour. The current model is you played for free, but the weapon, clothes and other properties charged big bucks (of course you can earn it by hours of play). The total revenue of Chinese gaming industry is about 26B RMB (3.& Billion USD) last year. I think it is way underestimated because there is big grey economy associated with online gaming. Like so called “gaming sweetshop” which employees hundred of thousands people. People usually started online game from level 1 and reached high level after thousand of hours playing time. But if you want to become game master right away, you can purchase one master account from the market. You can buy everything in the game from internet. Wiki said there 100,000 Chinese “farmers” employed in this “gameing sweetshop”. I would say maybe more. There are a lot of interesting stories happened between gaming company, players and farmers.
I read about that biz model too. Certainly fascinating model, very much relevant for India. People are just too conservative to pay upfront costs. So laying the hook & upselling is a working model, esp in developing countries. Kinda what Microsoft has been doing by pricing Xbox 360 lower than PS3 and recovering the cost through Xbox live subscriptions.
wlin wrote:The dark side of this is addiction. Near 40% of players are under 19, so no wonder fighting addiction is a forever task for government, school and parents.
Ofcourse. But compared to alcohol & tobacco, I would say gaming isnt as harmful.
wlin wrote:Second use is social. I said before the record of concurrent user online for QQ is 100M. That is pretty tells you the scale. QQ virtual currency made People’s bank seriously thinking about regulating it. I do not think I need explain more for this.
:rotfl: :rotfl: very very shrewd sire. :twisted: Big brother must probably be scratching his head :lol:
wlin wrote:Third usage is entertainment. All Chinese TV shows are online. After 2008, all TV shows I watched are online. CCTV has put all it programs online which is pretty good. You can go to cctv.com to verify yourself.
Thats very smart. Many US Networks have already adopted it (chk hulu). India has to adopt it too. Piracy is pretty much a problem in India too. Most of the Indian TV shows have been pirated & uploaded online. Its mostly used by diaspora though. I'd rather watch 20 second ad for every 15 minutes in high quality than some pirated low res cr@p. I used to watch US TV shows from pirated sites before, but now I only use Hulu. Adopting this model will consolidate the revenues for TV networks who in turn will provide better service.
wlin wrote:I do not know how many English program they offered but all Chinese program are online. That is legitimate source, for illegitimate source, from US TV shows to Japanese ***** you name it, anything you know can be foundd online. I know people who got several TB Japanese ***** movies on his hard disk.
giggity giggity. Can I have his contact pls, so that I can personally verify your "outrageous" claim :twisted:
wlin wrote:The future usage would be internet shopping. The internet shopping has become big since the online payment issue solved.
Ofcourse. In India, we need to have creative ways to promote online shopping as many people in the country side dont have banking accounts & even if they do, I dont think they would go for a credit card. One solution I can think of is to sell prepaid scratch cards. It overcomes many of the hurdles, like verifying the credit worthiness, ensuring proper/timely payment etc.
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

derkonig wrote:^^^^
How much of all that online activity is of any benefit to the PRC...
Online gaming may generate revenues, but as even you concede, it is only turning the young Chinese into addicts. From opium to RPG games, some things just dont change do they?
derkonig ji, we pretty much face the same situation. May be not much online gaming, but most urban kids are hooked to gaming. IMO, its a parenting issue. I dont think state has to regulate it. As with everything in life, moderation is good.
derkonig wrote:Online media may seem to be a good thing, but given that online content would be free, it only puts the media at the mercy of advertisers.
Why not ? Hulu generated $100M (in 2009 ?). Youtube is also tapping into this, like they did with IPL. Many Indian TV networks are losing huge revenues due to piracy. About time they looked into this model.
archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6823
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by archan »

putnanja wrote:China may ‘crash’ in next 9-12 months: Marc Faber
SINGAPORE: Investor Marc Faber said China’s economy will slow and possibly “crash” within a year as declines in stock and commodity prices signal the nation’s property bubble is set to burst.

...
...
“The Chinese economy is going to slow down regardless. It is more likely that we will even have a crash sometime in the next nine to 12 months.”

...
Citigroup warned in March that in a “worst case scenario”, the non-performing loans of local-government investment vehicles, used to channel money to stimulus projects, could swell to 2.4 trillion yuan by 2011.

Housing prices nationwide may fall as much as 20% in the second half of the year on government measures to curb speculation, BNP Paribas said on April 23. Under a stress test conducted by the Shanghai branch of the China Banking Regulatory Commission in February, local banks’ ratio of delinquent mortgages would triple should home prices in the country’s commercial center decline 10%.
...
Not an econ expert but such predictions have been made before and failed. So I guess it is "i'll believe it when I see it".
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

naren wrote: derkonig ji, we pretty much face the same situation. May be not much online gaming, but most urban kids are hooked to gaming. IMO, its a parenting issue. I dont think state has to regulate it. As with everything in life, moderation is good.
Plz sirjee, no ==. Things are far worse in PRC in terms of game addiction, heck there were even reports of PRC kids dropping dead after playing non-stop for over 24hrs. It was after a few such incidents that the govt. there had to step in, dunno if they have had any success. Seems like online gaming is the new opium for PRC.
Hulu generated $100M(in 2009 ?). Youtube is also tapping into this, like they did with IPL. Many Indian TV networks are losing huge revenues due to piracy. About time they looked into this model.
I am talking about channels providing their content via webcasts. Youtube/Hulu may make money, but what about the channels, do they make money via webcasts? No.
Carl_T
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2533
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 02:37
Location: anandasya sagare

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Carl_T »

derkonig wrote: Plz sirjee, no ==. Things are far worse in PRC in terms of game addiction, heck there were even reports of PRC kids dropping dead after playing non-stop for over 24hrs. It was after a few such incidents that the govt. there had to step in, dunno if they have had any success. Seems like online gaming is the new opium for PRC.
I think you are referring to Korea where this happened at a cyber cafe. Gaming is big business there and good gamers are semi-celebrities.
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

derkonig wrote:Plz sirjee, no ==. Things are far worse in PRC in terms of game addiction, heck there were even reports of PRC kids dropping dead after playing non-stop for over 24hrs. It was after a few such incidents that the govt. there had to step in, dunno if they have had any success. Seems like online gaming is the new opium for PRC.
May be. I've read abt internet-addiction reformation camps in PRC too. But I'm still of the opinion that it is a parenting issue. Gaming is a good industry. Compared to other industries like tobacco, alcohol, or even prostitution for that matter, gaming is much more safe & doesn't affect the environment/society as much. If kids eff up their lives, its their parents' fault. If the grown ups eff it up, then its their own fault. I'd certainly vote for a good gaming industry in India. We have tremendous creative potential and it will be a good industry to express through, in addition to our movie industry. How about Bollywoodized gaming 8)
derkonig wrote:I am talking about channels providing their content via webcasts. Youtube/Hulu may make money, but what about the channels, do they make money via webcasts? No.
Do you think BCCI let Youtube broadcast IPL without any deal ?

Read more about Hulu here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulu
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

^^^
I am not talking about IPL, I am talking about media channels like say news channels, entertainment/movie channels. Would they want to provide all of their content for free?
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

Carl_T wrote:
derkonig wrote: Plz sirjee, no ==. Things are far worse in PRC in terms of game addiction, heck there were even reports of PRC kids dropping dead after playing non-stop for over 24hrs. It was after a few such incidents that the govt. there had to step in, dunno if they have had any success. Seems like online gaming is the new opium for PRC.
I think you are referring to Korea where this happened at a cyber cafe. Gaming is big business there and good gamers are semi-celebrities.
Nope, it was the glorious PRC.
http://www.oddee.com/item_96657.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game ... on#China_2
Read up about the glorious achievements in game addiction of the heroic citizenry in beebuls republic.
wlin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:52

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by wlin »

I do not have the number. I guess it's negligible compared to TV broadcasting ads. You got one flash ads before each TV show. That is pretty much about it. You know, CCTV is national TV. So that is their political mission to move all programs online. Li, ChangChun oversee this. I assume CCTV head cares his job more than revenue :lol:
derkonig wrote:^^
wlin, can you give us a comparison of revenues of CCTV from online broadcasts and from TV broadcasts?
wlin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:52

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by wlin »

naren wrote: Westward Journey as in "Journey to the West" ? Does the user reach India in the final stage 8). This is one direction India must look at too. India has really cool mythology, but unfortunately not many companies take it up for their theme. I think Sony (or someone) made a game on Hanuman. The last thing I'd want to see is foreign companies making a game on Indian classics. (Imagine this: Ram fights the Lankan dragon and kills it (dont ask how dragons got into Lanka). Fairy princess appears and says "Thank you Ram, but Sita is in another castle" :-? Doesn't sound very good)
I think I can comment on this part. This is based on one Stephen Chow 90s movie. Pretty good movie. Highly recommended. Most influential moive for people who graduate college in 90s. I am not sure if the players can reach India becuase I never play this game. I have passed that age.

I think for great civilization, you have enough topic to develop your own game. The Chinese online game orginally are imported from South Korea. Now probably 80-85% are domestically-produced games because Chinese people knew Chinese better.

I am not sure how to promote internet in India. In China, you build internet cafe and have game and TV shows available. The people will come.
naren wrote:I read about that biz model too. Certainly fascinating model, very much relevant for India. People are just too conservative to pay upfront costs. So laying the hook & upselling is a working model, esp in developing countries. Kinda what Microsoft has been doing by pricing Xbox 360 lower than PS3 and recovering the cost through Xbox live subscriptions.

Ofcourse. But compared to alcohol & tobacco, I would say gaming isnt as harmful.
I think Giant first introduce this model. Its founder is a huge Mao fan. So he use Mao's war strategy to promote his game. Like rural first, so he promote his game in the countryside first. To make it happened, he used this evil strategy. I do not like him.


naren wrote:Thats very smart. Many US Networks have already adopted it (chk hulu). India has to adopt it too. Piracy is pretty much a problem in India too. Most of the Indian TV shows have been pirated & uploaded online. Its mostly used by diaspora though. I'd rather watch 20 second ad for every 15 minutes in high quality than some pirated low res cr@p. I used to watch US TV shows from pirated sites before, but now I only use Hulu. Adopting this model will consolidate the revenues for TV networks who in turn will provide better service.
Yes, I think that is the best way to fight piracy. Before I need goto other site to watch TV shows and handle the pop up and potenial virus risk. Now I can go to cctv.com to watch programs serveral years back. I would say it is a good thing for consumer.
naren wrote:Ofcourse. In India, we need to have creative ways to promote online shopp thing as many people in the country side dont have banking accounts & even if they do, I dont think they would go for a credit card. One solution I can think of is to sell prepaid scratch cards. It overcomes many of the hurdles, like verifying the credit worthiness, ensuring proper/timely payment etc.
Yes, online payment is crucial. Two things very importent for online shopping. One is delivery, the other is payment. The delivery issue solved pretty good in Chinese big cities and now payment issue solved. Then it is booming especially for white collars. I think India should be the same case.
wlin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:52

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by wlin »

naren wrote: derkonig ji, we pretty much face the same situation. May be not much online gaming, but most urban kids are hooked to gaming. IMO, its a parenting issue. I dont think state has to regulate it. As with everything in life, moderation is good.
I think government should play a big role here. In China, law enforcement is big issue. Promote games to teenager is banned in law but not enforced very good in China.
First, they say no kid allowed in internet café after 7pm.
Then no internet café on 200 meters from school.
But all these do not work. Green Dam maybe a bad execution but definitely you need install something in internet café to control this. Probably ban game in internet café. Parent can only take care of kid in home. But how about the after school time. The kids would skip school and heading to the internet café. So government role is needed.
wlin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Mar 2010 19:52

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by wlin »

Another side effect of internet probably so called hacker culture which caused a lot of fuss recently. The interested people maybe low in percentage because majority does not have interest in it. But the number is huge.

Somehow China develop this hacker admire culture which West film/TV shows contributed a lot to it if not created it. You know easy access to West movies make people think US people really live like that. So for every blockbuster movie, there is one hacker genius in the movie. So the US hacker population percentage is highly exaggerated in Chinese eyes. :lol:

Unlike US which is Anti-intellectualism, China is pro- intellectualism. In Chinese eyes everything needs to be merit-based. The kid most popular in School is the one who done great academically not the one who play the best football. You can image how popular a kid can be if he knows anything about hacking/cracking. :-?

I was one of them before. When I was in college, the games we played are digger, Pac-Man. Anybody remember this game? After graduation, one of my classmates introduced me to someone who crack the digger and modify the code to change color of game and reset the scoring rule. My eyes dropped immediately. That was done by disassembly. I guess China has the largest population who knows disassembly. I heard China hacked the Su30 Fire Control System by disassembly. Probably not correct.

So I got interested in it. At in mid 90s, when I back to school for my graduate study, I learned the soft-ICE so that I can crack the games I played, make me omnipotent in the game. Some time I crack to get software registration code. It was lot of fun. In 90s, the hack/crack board is among the most popular board in every university bbs. Now the things may change, because a lot of CS illiterate started to use internet. But I can guarantee you that crack/hack board still got huge visitor/contributors today. Do not believe it? You name one major university, and I showed you their crack board. And you can see the posts number there. If I still be the same guy 15 years ago, I probably be classified as a hacker because now all serious gamers play online game, so you have to target the server. So bad.

So what I want to say is, the “hackers” behind the recent fuss, like Google story, are a bunch of amateur hacker wannabe kids. They just learn the skill from web (probably google it) and download the software and want to give it a try. If I am not wrong, Google named two schools in China for hacking Google. One is one university in Shanghai, the other one is Lanxiang profession school. As I said before, if you finish 9 years mandatory education, you can choice to enrolled into profession school. And Lanxiang is one of the biggest professional school in Shangdong province. I can image some kid in that school do something, which he thought is hacking, to Google. And Google really make a big splash out of it. The consequence is one, Google become a joke in Chinese online community. Second, Lanxiang got the its best recruiting school year and charge its highest tuition ever.

Personally I think Chinese websites are the most targeted sites because you can get online currency, change gaming record etc. For example for QQ, there are hundreds of QQ account hack software downloadable in the internet. You can google "qq盗号工具" (QQ account hacking tool)and it returns 117,000 results. QQ needs to create a big research center to anti account hacking. The hacking targeting gaming site is just another business. So charging Google is really someone rebellious. And babycrying it and asking Mom Hillary to help is way beyond imagination. :rotfl:
archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6823
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by archan »

wlin wrote:Unlike US which is Anti-intellectualism, China is pro- intellectualism.
I am sorry, that is a blanket statement. You are trying to equate a hacker to an "intellectual" and justifying why the law breakers get more respect than the law abiding ones. Moreover this is less about PRC economy and industry and more about a general social issue of China. It should be discussed in the PRC News and Discussion thread, if at all. OT here.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15178
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Suraj »

The reverse engineering and hacking culture isn't much different from universities in India. While there are plenty who are content to do no more than the textbook material, quite a few top universities have thriving computer cultures. Back in the mid 90s, the favourite activities were taking apart Doom and other FPS games, as well as devising your own with the rendering engine from them.
wlin wrote:The kid most popular in School is the one who done great academically not the one who play the best football. You can image how popular a kid can be if he knows anything about hacking/cracking.
This is exactly how it is in India as well. The kids with the smarts, or better yet, the all-rounders who both top academics and extracurriculars, are the most popular. The kids who just play sports but are otherwise poor students rarely get much attention, unless they are extraordinarily gifted sportsmen.
Abhijeet
BRFite
Posts: 805
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 12:31

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Abhijeet »

All these posts claiming that the economic benefit to China of so many hundreds of millions of Internet users is nil (and look! their kids are addicted to online games and pr0n!) are just sour grapes.

If India could offer decent speed Internet connections - not pokey 256 kbps connections - for a decent price, there would be a huge upsurge in Internet users in India as well, and all the posts here would be about how wonderful that is. Which indeed it would be.
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

derkonig wrote:^^^
I am not talking about IPL, I am talking about media channels like say news channels, entertainment/movie channels. Would they want to provide all of their content for free?
Its a working model in the US now ji. Online viewers and TV viewers are somewhat different demographics. They dont compete with each other. Good thing about services like Hulu is that they grab all the piracy revenues and direct it to the right people. So its MORE revenue to the TV channels, not less. I myself use both TV viewing & online viewing. TV viewing for me is more social. Online viewing is more personal. When I cannot allocate time for my favourite show, I catch it up in Hulu. Besides, Hulu has lesser ads - only 4*30 seconds ads compared to 4*2 minutes TV ads for an hour show. I can use the saved time to troll in BRF :P
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

Wlin,

Thanks for that post about hacking, gives a good insight into modern Chinese culture. Its pretty much the same in India. Though I dont agree with you on the cyber attack thing (OT for this thread, so not elaborating).
wlin wrote:I think government should play a big role here. In China, law enforcement is big issue. Promote games to teenager is banned in law but not enforced very good in China.
First, they say no kid allowed in internet café after 7pm.
Then no internet café on 200 meters from school.
But all these do not work. Green Dam maybe a bad execution but definitely you need install something in internet café to control this. Probably ban game in internet café. Parent can only take care of kid in home. But how about the after school time. The kids would skip school and heading to the internet café. So government role is needed.
Letting the Big Brother between you and your kid is a dangerous slippery slope. Family values are totally effed up in the US because of this. I certainly wouldn't sign up for any such move.
wlin wrote:I think Giant first introduce this model. Its founder is a huge Mao fan. So he use Mao's war strategy to promote his game. Like rural first, so he promote his game in the countryside first. To make it happened, he used this evil strategy. I do not like him.
Though OT, I couldn't resist sharing this. When I was 5 yr old & started to eat rice by myself for the first time, my mom told me this story. Once upon a time there was a king who wanted to conquer his neighbouring kingdom. So every time he would attack the neighbour's city and end up getting defeated. One time, he badly lost and he took up a disguise and went back to his country. On the way, he got hungry and he passed by an old woman's hut. Back in those days, everybody in India is kind enough to give a free meal to the passerby. So he asked the lady for a meal. The lady served him hot rice and curry in a plate. As you know, every one eats with their hands in India, so this king shoved his fingers in the middle of the hot rice-curry heap and burnt it. The old lady laughed and told him "oh you are just like our stupid king, who always attacks the capital first instead of the surrounding villages". Moral of the story, always eat rice starting from the side, not from the middle.

So Mao copied from that old lady onlee :rotfl:
vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by vina »

Check this out. Very funny .A sampling of Chinglish .

Classic cross cultural/language/ lost in translation bloopers. Jews Ear Soup .. Hot and Fragrant Marxism.. Nice..
AnimeshP
BRFite
Posts: 514
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 07:39

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by AnimeshP »

Shanghai Expo faces £400m shortfall as visitors shy away
A live graph of visitor numbers on the official website, which was intended to show the soaring success of the Expo, was deleted after it revealed widespread apathy instead.
At the moment it was taken off the website, in the mid-afternoon, it showed that only 69,700 visitors had turned up, less than a fifth of the projected attendance. In the four days that the graph had been active, it showed numbers halving from the opening day total of around 200,000, and then halving again.
"I have no idea what has happened to the graph," said a spokesman for the Expo bureau. Meanwhile, leaked memos from the Central Propaganda department showed the government's sensitivity to any criticism of the Expo.
"In reporting the visit of the leaders to the Expo, all media need to use reports from Xinhua [the state-run news agency]. No other media should do its own reporting. No following or stopping leaders for interviews allowed," said a dispatch from the weekend.
"Media should not follow the Western media in criticising the World Expo, such as over its excessive costs," it added.
abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

vina wrote:Check this out. Very funny .A sampling of Chinglish .

Classic cross cultural/language/ lost in translation bloopers. Jews Ear Soup .. Hot and Fragrant Marxism.. Nice..
The Hot and Fragrant Marxism is probably the result of Incontinent Interior Decoration. :mrgreen:
Purush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2445
Joined: 26 Oct 2001 11:31
Location: Loc Muinne

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Purush »

I hope India never wastes resources on these kinds of useless money-sucking 'ecchhandee boosting' ventures like the olympics and the expo. I hope we don't lose too much money on the commonwealth games itself. :-?
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

abhischekcc wrote:
vina wrote:Check this out. Very funny .A sampling of Chinglish .

Classic cross cultural/language/ lost in translation bloopers. Jews Ear Soup .. Hot and Fragrant Marxism.. Nice..
The Hot and Fragrant Marxism is probably the result of Incontinent Interior Decoration. :mrgreen:
Where hot & flagrant marxism exists, can bakstaniyat be far off?
biswas
BRFite
Posts: 503
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 20:42
Location: Ozzieland

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by biswas »

Purush wrote:
I hope India never wastes resources on these kinds of useless money-sucking 'ecchhandee boosting' ventures like the olympics and the expo. I hope we don't lose too much money on the commonwealth games itself. :-?
The Olympics is not a waste of money...
derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 951
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by derkonig »

^^^^
Pl. quantify. AFAIK, all that shiny infrastructure is gathering rust most of the time. The bird's nest is now a snow resort or some such thing.
Purush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2445
Joined: 26 Oct 2001 11:31
Location: Loc Muinne

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Purush »

IIRc, Athens lost a lot of money with their olympics venture.
Don't know about beijing..and you can't take commie stats at face value anyway.

I guess that post-olympics, most of the high-end sports infrastructure such as swimming pools, track+field venues etc will fall into disuse in a cricket-obsessed country like India where only cricket stadiums have any hope of making money. How many people are interested in non-cricket sports? My guess onlee, I could be wrong.'

Anyway, better to take this to Nukkad or sports dhaaga lest we invite an admin lathicharge :oops:
abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

Purush wrote:IIRc, Athens lost a lot of money with their olympics venture.
Athens loses money no matter what they do. :mrgreen:
Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5891
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Dileep »

Well, we should invent items like water kirket, cycle kirket, basket kirket, tennis kirket etc to keep using the facilities.
Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Vipul »

Will China be the next Black Swan?

See, the term black swan has recently been made famous by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. But this was a fairly common expression even in 16th century London as a phrase describing the impossibility of an event occurring. The reason being that in those days in the western world, there were only white swans and hence, black swan was used to signify impossibility. Black swans were first discovered in Australia in 1697 by Willem de Vlamingh. Taleb essentially uses the expression to talk about events which are hard to predict and at the same time have a huge impact on the economy of a country if they occur. In the recent past, black swan has been used more often than not to signify a negative economic event.”

“Interesting. But why will China be the next black swan? What is the story there?”

“I happened to read a very interesting white paper titled China’s Red Flags written by Edward Chancellor. Chancellor points out that the continued high growth rate of China is more a function of government-directed lending through banks than the state of the economy itself. As Chancellor writes “Last year, new bank lending increased by nearly 10 trillion renminbi (the Chinese currency), equivalent to 29% of gross domestic product. These loans largely went to fund infrastructure projects, property developments… It was as if the economy had received an enormous adrenaline shot.” And all this money has helped China continue to grow at an astonishingly high rate despite the world being in the midst of what is now being called the Great Recession. Estimates suggest this government-directed investment was responsible for nearly 70% of China’s growth in 2008 and almost 90% growth in the first half of 2009.”

“But what is wrong with this strategy?”

“Well. See it like this: Botox may make an old woman look good for a while, but beyond a point, it has its side effects. So to continue to grow, China has to continue to invest more and more.”

“So?”

“Well. That is a very risky strategy to follow. Let me explain what the economists call the multiplier effect to make my point. You earn a salary of around Rs 65,000 every month. What do you do with that money?”

“First I pay my portion of the rent. And then I go in for my monthly retail therapy. Of course I also save some money every month.”

“Yup. Now, the money you spend is at some level, an income for someone else. Now the person who gets your money also goes out and spends the money he earns, which in turn is an income for someone else, and so the loop continues. This is known as the multiplier effect. The greater the multiplier effect, the greater the impact on the growth of the economy, because it basically boils down to people earning more and spending more. And the multiplier effect of this investment-led growth strategy is collapsing. As a recent note of Pivot Capital Management says, “The effectiveness of domestic credit in generating growth is collapsing. In the period from 2000 to 2008, it took on average $1.5 of credit to generate $1 of GDP growth in China. This compares very favourably with the peak $4 of credit for $1 of GDP in the USA in 2008. However in the first half of 2009 in China this ratio was already at around $7 of credit for $1 of growth.

Credit might be going into the luxury property and stock markets, but the trickle down to the real economy is very poor.” So the bottom-line is it is taking more and more money to generate the same kind of growth. And a lot of this money is being used to construct bridges and roads to nowhere.

“Also, the easy credit policy pushed by the government has “boosted construction activity and the residential real estate market”. At the same time, property prices have been on an upswing.As Chancellor writes, “Over the course of the last decade, national home prices rose at an annual rate of 8% according to Morgan Stanley. This consistent performance has fostered a widespread belief that property prices can only go up… Last year, sales of residential properties climbed to 3.8 trillion renminbi, up 87% on 2008. Average home prices rose by 8% in 2009. Several local markets saw stronger gains, rising by 20% or more.”

“And that is a problem?”

“Of course. Take the case of Beijing. The house price-to-income ratio is at now 15. For the period 2000-2008, it was 10. This means house prices have gone way beyond the affordability of the common man.”

“But if that’s the case, shouldn’t prices be coming down?”

“Yes, they should be. But the thing is “much of this excess supply is being held off the market by property “investors.” A recent survey found that nearly a fifth of all recently sold properties were kept vacant. Since new apartments tend to fall in price if they are rented out, many of these investor properties are kept empty.”

“I see,” she said.

“Also this easy money policy has also led to ghost towns being developed. “A news clip on YouTube (originally from Al-Jazeera) shows the newly constructed “ghost town” of Ordos. An interviewee suggested that building this empty city, with housing for a million, had let local officials meet their growth targets.” The infrastructure being created is being sponsored by local governments and financed by government-owned banks. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of this infrastructure isn’t really required. Given that, there is very little chance that these bridges, roads and railway networks that are being created will earn enough to pay back the loans that have been taken.”

“So how will these loans be repaid?”

“As Chancellor points out “If the economy continues growing at its past rate, then it’s assumed all of those new airports and toll roads will generate future revenues. Alternately, local governments could finance the loans with receipts of future land sales. The trouble is that land sales currently account for some half of local government revenue. So if the real estate market tanks, then the local authorities may have trouble fulfilling their implicit obligation to make good the infrastructure loans.” So in a way, the government has an incentive to keep the real estate bubble going and keep investing. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen.”
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

derkonig wrote:^^^^
Pl. quantify. AFAIK, all that shiny infrastructure is gathering rust most of the time. The bird's nest is now a snow resort or some such thing.
The Great Wall was built with huge effort, but served little practical purpose. May be blowing the state money on huge, impractical, H&D projects while millions of abduls are trampled upon is in their civilizational psyche ?
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

How much shock proof is PRC ? Time will tell & not so far in the future if you ask me.

Post Mao, the justification for the existence of CPC was economic growth. As much as the abduls hate the commies, they have lost the energy for another revolution. Both the abduls and commies have adopted "whatever works" policy. China did show impressive numbers for the past 3 decades. During this phase, PRC hasn't experienced any shocks. Politicians in power always love status quo. Unfortunately for Cheena, status quo is defined as 8-10% economic growth. Its as idiotic as building the nation based on annual rainfall :-? Take US for example: they witnessed two major shocks - civil war and 1929 depression. They came through unscathed because they built their nation on principles. CPC declares itself communist, but runs a capitalist economy; declares atheist and reserves the right to appoint Dalai Lama; fetish for Confucianism but oppresses Falun Gong and Buddhism :-? What principles PRC is built upon, I dont know. How long can they keep this charade going on ?
naren
BRFite
Posts: 1139
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 07:45

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by naren »

(I dont think this has been posted before. Apologies if so. )

Interesting story about transformation of China from communism to capitalism.

China's reluctant first entrepreneur
Imagine how much courage it takes to set up a market stall outside your house, knowing that the authorities could come along and arrest you for doing just that, starting your own private business.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Post by Hari Seldon »

Time for (closet PRC agent?) Sri Andy Xie to wax eloquent. Xie's been bearish on PRC exactly whenever Beijing's been trying to cool overheat in its echo-nomy and bullish whenever Beijing needed to show-off jazz. How convenient.

Andy Xie: China Asset Bubble Triggered By Long-term Low Interest Rate
Andy Xie, formerly chief Asia economist at Morgan Stanley, said the Chinese real estate market is 100 percent overvalued and that the intrinsic value of the Shanghai Composite Index is 2,000 points, reports 163.com.

Xie compared the current Chinese housing market to the Japanese housing market of the 1980s and 1990s {yaaaawn}and predicts China's stock and real estate markets will decline slightly in the fourth quarter of this year, with a large decline coming in 2012. {even more convenient. Ties in nicely with mayan myth besides, eh?}
Xie said the asset bubble was triggered by long-term low interest rates and an over-supply of money.{Duh. Also mention that that oversupply comes from having to sterlize mountains of forex inflow on account of enormous surpluses resulting directly from a mercantilist tyrade policy. No?}

In December, 1999, broad M2 money supply in China was 11.76 trillion yuan, rising to 60.62 trilion yuan in December 2009, said the report. The 415 percent rise in the money supply was matched by a 453 percent rise in Beijing real estate prices, said the report. :eek:

The average home prices in Shanghai in 2000 was 3,326 yuan per square meter, soaring to 26,000 yuan per square meter :eek: in Apirl 2010, said the report
.
Post Reply