Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 May 2010 02:49

Just wondering TSP is arresting every tom dick & harry ever associated with FS like his friend his father in law etc but what about the pigs father or is he too powerful like Hafiz Saeed and so for H&D purpose they will excuse him?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 May 2010 02:54

Acharya wrote:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MFqClBejoK8/S ... 0/full.jpg

Huma Mian : Wife Of Faisal Shahzad,Attempting To Use A Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Huma Mian is a 28-year-old American woman who grew up in Colorado and graduated from the University of Colorado in Boulder. She's also the wife of 30-year-old Faisal Shahzad.
Shahzad, who was arrested last night, was an American citizen for just about a year, having been naturalized in Bridgeport, Connecticut last April.The authorities say he has admitted plotting the attack. He was charged yesterday with terrorism and attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction

That pic of the magnifcient St. Patrick's Cathedral in background stands polluted with a Paki in front of it.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 06 May 2010 03:00

Prem wrote:Munna, Start by telling Puckerjadehs why aint they speaking Arabic or Pure Farsi as Punjabi, Urdu, Sindhi etc are Indian languages. We must negate all Indian aspects of their pathetic presence and point out onlee thing Indian about them is the land temporarily occupied by them.

There is an acronym for these, just like ABCD coined by me.

IPCP: Indic Past Confused Paki

Basically all Pakis are converted Indics whether they were originally Buddhists, Jains or Hindus.
Just like ABCD who travel in 2 cultures, but are usually confused about both, the IPCPs are basically confused as to their true identity.
They can only identify with Indians and with Indic symbols be it music, films, festivals(Baisakhi..), actors, TV serials etc. but have a Arabic religion that does not fit them. Basically its like putting Square Pegs in Round Holes, or putting a BMW engine in a Tractor.
For Arabs being Muslims is easy as it very neatly co-relates to their culture and there is no conflict.

For Pakis, they drive around in this Tractor at 10 miles an hour when they are capable of 100 miles an hour. Their heart is to be like Indics and go at 100 miles an hour with movies, festivals, sports, education and music. But their convoluted brains make them go at only 10 miles an hour otherwise any faster and they'll be copying Indians!

Few years of driving this peculiar, bizarre and paradoxical machine inside them, they just can't think of anything other than crashing it.

That in a nutshell is what made Faisal Shahzad do what he did to throw away perfectly good life for life time in maximum security federal prison.

The only solution is for all pakis is either learn Arabic, emigrate to Arabia and permanently become a Tractor or become a Buddhists(if hinduism is too much to chew) and come back to Indic fold and again drive Life at 100 miles an hour in a shiny new BMW.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 May 2010 03:05

Karna your example was absolutely hilarious

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 May 2010 03:07

One thing bothering me. This guy tinkered with two five gallon jugs of gasoline, fertilizer, M-88 fire crackers (all should have lit of the sensors) and was on the run (couldnt have much time for showering) after Saturday and yet he made it thru the detectors etc in JFK. Was he using Axe?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 May 2010 03:16

ramana wrote:One thing bothering me. This guy tinkered with two five gallon jugs of gasoline, fertilizer, M-88 fire crackers (all should have lit of the sensors) and was on the run (couldnt have much time for showering) after Saturday and yet he made it thru the detectors etc in JFK. Was he using Axe?

His resume is 3 pages long, for a junior analyst that's suspicious.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 06 May 2010 03:24

Karna_A wrote:Few years of driving this peculiar, bizarre and paradoxical machine inside them, they just can't think of anything other than crashing it.

This is BENIS worthy.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 06 May 2010 03:34

Joo koopher! A 1000 lashes ubon joo. He bas ujing Attar fragrance bich all bious momeen uje.

ramana wrote:One thing bothering me. This guy tinkered with two five gallon jugs of gasoline, fertilizer, M-88 fire crackers (all should have lit of the sensors) and was on the run (couldnt have much time for showering) after Saturday and yet he made it thru the detectors etc in JFK. Was he using Axe?

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 06 May 2010 04:13

Carl_T wrote:
ramana wrote:One thing bothering me. This guy tinkered with two five gallon jugs of gasoline, fertilizer, M-88 fire crackers (all should have lit of the sensors) and was on the run (couldnt have much time for showering) after Saturday and yet he made it thru the detectors etc in JFK. Was he using Axe?

His resume is 3 pages long, for a junior analyst that's suspicious.

I went through his resume with the critical eye of a hiring manager.

He completed his MBA in 2005, and since then he has worked as a Financial Analyst at a clothing chain, and then as a Reporting Analyst at a small financial services firm. Not very impressive for a Yem-Bee-Ay. First job, granted it might be a tough job market, but second job was also a lateral junior position. Not very impressive, not a whole lot of ambition.

He claims he was on the Dean's List for Outstanding Academic Performance. Usually Dean's Listers get the pick of the best on-campus jobs. Not this guy...something wrong with this picture.

His career history shows lack of staying power - 6 months, 15 months, then finally a couple of years. Job hopper.

Recommendation : no hire

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 06 May 2010 04:15

Check Yawn - how the latest NY incident is making the pakis' lives miserable in the US. Uh, Ah, .....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 May 2010 04:16

May 05, 2010
A Pakistani-American on the Times Sq. bomber
letter to the editor
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... e_tim.html

I vehemently condemn the attempted bombing of Times Square by, I am ashamed to say, a Pakistani American.

Fellow, non-Pakistani Americans, before you judge all of us, please remember that there is a silent majority of Muslims who wholeheartedly, emphatically condemns such terrorist activities. Why don't hear about them? It's because they remain mute, too afraid to speak or not passionate enough to get out there in public and condemn such acts of terror for fear of reprisals. They wait for others to speak for them and because of that reason they are "silent".

The moment the Pakistani suspect was arrested, there was a deluge of emails from my family and friends condemning the actions of this misguided individual. Some family members were openly urging the US to try him in military court and condemn him to death; some were blaming the Pakistani governments, past and present, for not taking stern action against the radicals. One friend solely blamed the intelligence agencies of Pakistan, ISI, for not sharing intelligence and harboring such terrorists. Another person's advice was for the US government to send more drones and finish the "devils" once and for all. Thus, no expletives were spared in condemning the radicals, the misguided so-called Muslims.

The fact is that military might will not be able to solve this problem of radicalization. Young Muslims are being brainwashed into following Wahabiism- the Saudi Islam. This intolerant and radical version of Islam has to be fought ideologically. The Muslims, the majority of who don't subscribe to this version must unite in their efforts to root it out of their neighborhoods, their schools (madarsahs) and their lives. It is in the best interest of the entire Muslim Ummah to unite in this cause otherwise this will eat us all like a cancer. This also means that the government of Pakistan has to deal heavy-handedly with hatred inciting clerics. For this, moderate, silent majority, of Pakistanis must come out of their drawing rooms and support the government and military in their efforts to root out the radicals. Even though, the US government is channeling billions of dollars of aid, anti-Americanism is at its peak in Pakistan. Some people attribute that rise to the shortage of basic necessities for the common people, power, jobs, food shortages, and Zardari government's inability to solve these crises have compounded the problem of anti-Americanism. The only two institutions that are capable of rooting out terrorism are the civil society and the military. However, they need the support of millions of Pakistanis that are US and UK educated, work for the multinationals or run successful businesses. They are the ones that can bring the ideological change required to pull Pakistan out of its quagmire.

Anila Ali
http://www.anilaali.com

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

OPINION
MAY 3, 2010
Why Pakistan Produces Jihadists
Carved out of the Muslim-majority areas of British India in 1947, it was the world's first modern nation based solely on Islam.
Article
By SADANAND DHUME

Monday night's arrest of Faisal Shahzad, a 30-year-old Pakistani-American accused of planting a car bomb in Times Square on Saturday, will undoubtedly stoke the usual debate about how best to keep America safe in the age of Islamic terrorism. But this should not deflect us from another, equally pressing, question. Why do Pakistan and the Pakistani diaspora churn out such a high proportion of the world's terrorists?

Indonesia has more Muslims than Pakistan. Turkey is geographically closer to the troubles of the Middle East. The governments of Iran and Syria are immeasurably more hostile to America and the West. Yet it is Pakistan, or its diaspora, that produced the CIA shooter Mir Aimal Kasi; the 1993 World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef (born in Kuwait to Pakistani parents); 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed; Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl's kidnapper, Omar Saeed Sheikh; and three of the four men behind the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London.

The list of jihadists not from Pakistan themselves—but whose passage to jihadism passes through that country—is even longer. Among them are Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, Mohamed Atta, shoe bomber Richard Reid, and John Walker Lindh, the so-called American Taliban. Over the past decade, Pakistani fingerprints have shown up on terrorist plots in, among other places, Germany, Denmark, Spain and the Netherlands. And this partial catalogue doesn't include India, which tends to bear the brunt of its western neighbor's love affair with violence.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... pHSBfHEvsw

Muslim leader says US enemies should leave
(AFP) – 23 hours ago
WASHINGTON — A leader of the Ahmadiya Islamic minority on Tuesday implored US Muslims who would attack the country to leave, after a Pakistani-American was charged in a car bomb plot.
The Ahmadiya, who mostly hail from Pakistan and other South Asian nations, break with mainstream Islam by not believing Mohammed was the last prophet. They also advocate a separation of mosque and state.
Naseem Mahdi, the US Ahmadiya community's missionary-in-charge, said that Muslims across the United States faced both economic and social ruin unless they spoke up more loudly against violent elements.
"We have to stand up and say that this is nonsense, this is not acceptable to us. If our loyalties are somewhere else, why should we be here and enjoy the benefits of this beautiful country?" he told a news conference.
He denounced US citizens who would attack the country as leading "hypocritical lives."
"My advice to them is to be bold and leave and go and live in the land where their loyalties lie," he said.
Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani-born US citizen, was arrested just before midnight Monday after trying to detonate a car bomb in crowded Times Square, according to prosecutors.
A criminal complaint said that Shahzad admitted training in lawless Waziristan, a holdout of Islamic extremist groups.
Islamic hardliners have frequently targeted the Ahmadiya sect, which under Pakistani law is not considered Muslim.
The latest report by the US Commission on International Religious Freedom found that Pakistan had "systematic, ongoing and egregious violations" of freedom of belief, including legislation against the Ahmadiya sect.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 May 2010 04:21

MurthyB wrote:Joo koopher! A 1000 lashes ubon joo. He bas ujing Attar fragrance bich all bious momeen uje.

ramana wrote:One thing bothering me. This guy tinkered with two five gallon jugs of gasoline, fertilizer, M-88 fire crackers (all should have lit of the sensors) and was on the run (couldnt have much time for showering) after Saturday and yet he made it thru the detectors etc in JFK. Was he using Axe?

IMHO,this perfect specimen of Puckerjabistan deserve the honorary title of PBUH i.e Pucker Born Uber Harami.
Jubban pei Paaaki teri , daastaan challi ayye
Akkal Anne se pehle, Ahmaki challi aaayee.
Kashmeer kee chah mei ,Puckers kiye terrorism barre
Al Qaida, Let, JeM , Talibaan , Sooside belt Pharre
Yeh Asslamiat inhe Dekho, kaahan kaahan laayee.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 May 2010 04:41

That pic of the magnifcient St. Patrick's Cathedral in background stands polluted with a Paki in front of it.

Yes.. Gotta agree.However looks like St John the Divine to me..Not very sure. For someone who lived in that area and visited those parts very often (had relatives and friends working and studying at St Luke's Roosevelt right next door and Columbia Univ a block away), it is sad and in many ways tragic.

The Paki and his wife pose in front of that place, live there for many years, become citizens and want to murder ordinary people ?. Kick those b**tards back to that crap hole Pakistan.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 06 May 2010 04:44

Shahzad faisal Complaint on Scribd

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 06 May 2010 04:48

Acharya wrote:
May 05, 2010
A Pakistani-American on the Times Sq. bomber
letter to the editor
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... e_tim.html

I vehemently condemn the attempted bombing of Times Square by, I am ashamed to say, a Pakistani American.

The moment the Pakistani suspect was arrested, there was a deluge of emails from my family and friends condemning the actions of this misguided individual. Some family members were openly urging the US to try him in military court and condemn him to death; some were blaming the Pakistani governments, past and present, for not taking stern action against the radicals. One friend solely blamed the intelligence agencies of Pakistan, ISI, for not sharing intelligence and harboring such terrorists. Another person's advice was for the US government to send more drones and finish the "devils" once and for all. Thus, no expletives were spared in condemning the radicals, the misguided so-called Muslims.

Moderate or pious, all Pakis are quick to say "kill him","condemn him to death".

No way Faisal will get the death penalty - after all, it was only attempted murder, and nobody was even hurt in the whole process. 15 years at max, and then continuous surveillance for his entire life.

But for the Pakis, "death" for anyone who makes their life more difficult. Simple solution for a simple people.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 06 May 2010 04:52

Regarding Faizal Shahzadi's Resume.,
With an MBA and Bachelors from Bridgeport University do you guys expect him to work on Wall Street?

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 06 May 2010 04:54

pgbhat wrote:Shahzad faisal Complaint on Scribd

Good to see that even in the US, the FIR (or whatever Khans call it) looks just like a good old-fashioned Indian FIR. Same un-cool font, same weird formatting, same legal jargon, same big ugly stamps all over the page. The language of democracy is a great unifier! Totally unacceptable in today's corporate world!

"From at least in or about Dec 2009, up to and including on or about May 2010, in an offense (sic ) obstructing, delaying and affecting interstate commerce and which would have so obstructed, delayed and affected interstate commerce if the offense (sic ) had been consummated..."

prakashtirupati · Post by **prakashtirupati** » 06 May 2010 04:56

Made In Pakistan

front page of newspaper i picked up today in Washington,DC.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 May 2010 05:07

Kati wrote:Check Yawn - how the latest NY incident is making the pakis' lives miserable in the US. Uh, Ah, .....

Pakis? If anything the blowback will hit SDREs.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 May 2010 05:10

US terror arrest leaves Pakistani villagers stunned

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 May 2010 05:18

Talibans are true followers of Sunna thus most Pious of all Paki .

Taliban cut off hands of three tribesmen
PESHAWAR: Taliban militants Wednesday cut off the hands of three alleged thieves in a troubled Pakistani tribal region, police and hospital officials said.The incident took place in the remote Ghaljo village of Orakzai, which is controlled by the Taliban. “A Taliban court ordered the cutting off of the right hands of three local tribesmen in Orakzai tribal region after finding them guilty of theft,” a police official told AFP on condition of anonymity.He said that the three men were later taken to the northwestern town of Kohat for medical treatment.Hospital official Musa Khan confirmed the incident and said that doctors were trying to save the three men's lives.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... smen-rs-04

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 May 2010 05:22

KARACHI: Pakistan's central bank said on Wednesday it had received $468 million Zaziya from the United States.
The US embassy in Islamabad said on Tuesday it had released $656 million to Pakistan from its so-called coalition support fund (CSF) for some costs incurred last year, with $188 million transferred last week and another $468 million on Monday.“We received $468 million last night,” said Syed Wasimuddin, chief spokesman for the State Bank of Pakistan.The bank said on Tuesday it had received the first $188 million last Friday.The CSF is a US programme to reimburse allies that have incurred costs in supporting counter-terrorist and counter-insurgency operations.Pakistan's role in the battle against militants has been highlighted in recent days with the arrest in the United States of a Pakistani-American in connection with a botched car bomb in New York's Times Square.

The US funds come at an important time for cash-strapped Pakistan which is in negotiations with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for the release of a fifth tranche of an $11.3 billion loan.The IMF board is expected to meet in mid-May to consider the fifth tranche of the loan, worth about $1.15 billion. The IMF has been pressing Pakistan to increase electricity tariffs and implement a value-added tax.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -csf-qs-04

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 May 2010 05:24

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ricans-550

“The Pakistanis enjoy the benefits of living in America. Love earning dollars. Love the prosperity that the dollar brings. They love showing off their dollars when they go to Pakistan. Yet, they never tire of criticising America. They think Pakistan is a paradise but all are afraid of returning home.”

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 06 May 2010 05:28

Aussie developer Shakhil Haque gunned down in Pakistan

THE bodies of a Pakistani Australian developer and his Hong Kong associate have been found in an Islamabad hotel room, in what police are treating as an execution-style murder by business rivals.

http://www.news.com.au/business/aussie- ... 5862863920

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 May 2010 05:35

prakashtirupati wrote:Made In Pakistan

front page of newspaper i picked up today in Washington,DC.

Damm I missed to pick up express today at the metro. Thanks Prakash for sharing this

Now on serious note. I am watching CNN and yawn has published a picture of FS at karachi immigration they know the dates when he left for NWFP and that he is linked to JeM so I am highly impressed with the record keepers at ISI & TSPA they really record every minute details of every agent / talibunny. It took US 53 hrs to find FS and arrest him. It did not take even 53 minutes for ISI to pull out his janam kundali and to arrest his accomplices. Shows you how money & danda speaks in land of pure

The only complaint I have against CNN is that when they mention JeM they say it is linked with TTP & AQ but they forget to mention their biggest mentor which is TSPA or their main area of action which is India or how fatass azar was released in IC 814 drama

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 05:42

CRamS wrote: I think you are letting your personal grouses or emotions get in the way of your otherwise good analyses. I don't believe any Indian or Indian American except MMS-like "South Asians" are selective about US's faults for their own reasons. The vast majority of us are deeply frustrated with US policies. .

Oh of course of course. This is all about personal grouses and personal opinions, which we are all allowed to have. Surely you are not suggesting that I must not have personal opinions and grouses while you can? Your opinion differs from mine in several significant ways.

Among Indians it is perfectly normal for people to hold a grouse against the US and be frustrated with the US and at the same time admire the US is some ways. In exactly the same manner there are other Indians who hold grouses against Pakistan and are frustrated with Pakistan but yet seek friendship. There are other Indians who have no sympathy for either Pakistan or for the US. All these three categories of people are allowed to claim to be patriotic Indians who know what is good for India. Do you have a problem with that?

If not please carry on and stop worrying about what I say. I will continue to point out the times when you or any other member comes down in favor of the US over India based on your personal views and how you live your life. Just click the button that puts me on your ignore list.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 06:34

Brad Goodman wrote: I think its pretty clear here to all aam aadmi of unkil land that porkies are behind most terror plots that affects his/her life. Still these so called think tanks will go out of their way to project the administration line that TSPA is part of solution and not part of the problem. With this guy FS & DCH it should be clear that one was a son of AVM of TSPAF and other was a son of Officer in Foreign Office so if Army and Beauracracy cannot save their own kin from getting indoctrinated from this poison then how do you expect them to protect mango abdul's from it and take on talibunnies. I had posted an article from NewYorker my Mr Hersh that said about how TSPA officers were a big fan of Zaid Hamid and how they had wet dreams of khilafat e rashida and grand design's of islamic empire.

If ordinary person like us who has a job for living can find time to read and understand what is going on in world of geopolitics how come these so called full time think tank scholors who have 100 times more information at their disposal. Still we never hear a word about fundamentalism in TSPA from these guys or from babus in pentegon or foggy bottom. What is the reason for this?

This is a whale of a question, mostly OT but I will try and say what I believe briefly. Opinions and perceptions are made by the media. At least in the US this has been true for at least 50-60 years. (In medieval times opinions and perceptions were made by something else - say the Church in Europe)

There are at least three major factors in play here
1) Domination of US media in the US
2) Control of US media by the US government
3) A very early move by Pakistan (1950s) to openly bandwagon with the US and push the idea that the future of India and the Indian subcontinent belonged to Pakistanis who were the former Mughal rulers of India.

Combine this with perceptions that were created about India by an angry Britain leaving India "India is as much a nation as the equator", "People of the book are much more upright and dependable than the untrustworthy pagan", "The loyal martial races of the North west are our allies". These impressions were fed to a US that was coming to grips with world leadership.

Whichever angle you look at it it is clear that the Pakistani RAPE and army have built up powerful personal support inside the US that creates a favorable impression of them. What they say will be believed over what anyone else says. Pakistanis say India is bigoted, Hindu and untrustworthy and there is an undercurrent of that in suspicions of India that appear from Brookings. Pakistanis say that India is no more than Pakistan, and certainly much less than Pakistan and that is believed.

But that is not all

US diplomatic and economic relationships have been built up on these perceptions but the US is not so stupid as to rely on perceptions alone. Pakistan has actually done work for and delivered to the US a lot of things that have either bailed out US foreign policy, led to US victory or helped US politicians. Pakistan jumped right into the cold war and U2 flights were from Pakistan. The cold war was eventually won from Pakistan - when the dirty work of fighting was done by the Pakistani army in mufti. And in the aftermath of 9-11 - all it took from Amritraj was a few strong words for Pakistan to agree to toe the US line immediately, while gradually ditching the US over a decade.

The Paki army and RAPE are, and have behaved like a US ally. India can never do that. India behaves more like a competitor than an ally. For the US the world is very clear. If you are an ally, you must do as the US says. If you don't do that you are a competitor. This is not a matter of choice, it is forced. And even among competitors there is a caste system where cultural and historic biases play a role in moulding US attitudes. You can be French and a competitor, but you are viewed slightly differently in the US from a Russian, Chinese or Indian competitor.

India and Indians must decide whether they are allies or competitors of the US. You cannot be wishy washy about this - the US forces this choice on everyone. But Indians (due to our English speaking background) and our Commonwealth past are undecided about declaring the US as a competitor. We would prefer alliance, but will not GUBO fully. This reflects in Indian attitudes across the board - on BRF as much as in MMSs statements. So from the US viewpoint, India is not a complete ally and a possible competitor with a history of being on the wrong side. That affects the way in which the US deals with India and Pakistan.

As far s I am concerned, the US is a competitor.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 May 2010 06:53

surinder wrote: That is all the sum total of TSP contributions.

You are forgetting Suriah, Ghulam Ali and probably many others...they are great by any standards

anyway the point is even those TSP'ians that are good artists (and that also includes IMs), you find that they are very secular, deeply religious but respect other religions incl. hindu religion. Amjad Ali, Bismillah Khan and many others...some are even agnostic. My father remembers Md. Rafi touching the feet of many saintly looking hindu elderly person he encounters, out of respect.

So at some point in your life you take a fork. Either you become a porki or you humanise yourself and become a artist...an artist can never be a Pakistani a Pakistani can never be a artist. I am talking about inner pakistaniyat here, not the green passport...of course, now that word has different meaning in this forum...let us ignore for a moment.. :

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 06 May 2010 06:56

shiv wrote:
CRamS wrote: I think you are letting your personal grouses or emotions get in the way of your otherwise good analyses. I don't believe any Indian or Indian American except MMS-like "South Asians" are selective about US's faults for their own reasons. The vast majority of us are deeply frustrated with US policies. .
If not please carry on and stop worrying about what I say. I will continue to point out the times when you or any other member comes down in favor of the US over India based on your personal views and how you live your life. Just click the button that puts me on your ignore list.

Where one lives and how one lives are very poor indicators of patriotism.
It's like saying Nehru was way more patriotic than Subhash Chandra Bose as Nehru was living in India and Bose was abroad.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 06:58

Related to my post above is the reason for my impatience with people who believe that India is showing weakness by not being able to compel Pakistan to comply with its dictates as it does for the US.

Long before India even demanded anything of Pakistan, Pakistan fought a war with India (1947-48), very quickly understood its weakness in relation to India and made policy decision to ally completely with the US and voluntarily agreed to comply with the US's every demand in exchange for monetary and arms aid.

As the dominant power after WW2 the US set up bases in various parts of the world including Pakistan. The Nehru we love to hate could have offered the US bases in India to dominate the Indian ocean, but he did not do that. India did not bandwagon with the US because it would have required being an implementer of US foreign policy. Pakistan has consistently implemented US foreign policy and the US has paid and praised Pakistan for that from the 1950s. And right from that time Pakistan's sole reason for doing everything that the US wants has been to try and dominate India, in the hope that US arms and US support would give the Paki army and RAPE the Mughal kingdom they wanted so badly. Pakistan (RAPE and army) are and have been pro US and anti India for the 1950s at least.

Now if someone comes along in 2010 and asks why Pakistan jumps when the US says jump and does not jump when India says jump - the kindest word I can have for this person is "ignoramus". Pakistan's relation ship with the US has been to oppose India and that relationship has been preserved by the US because the Pakis have actually been useful to the US. Those of us who have lived through the last 50 years or have bothered to read history will realise that the Pakistani state has been in near financial collapse at least twice and has been bailed out by the US. The Pakistani armed forces were arguably made more powerful than India before the 1965 war by US gifts - again this is documented history and even today Pakistan can match India blow for blow (for about 10 days) because the armed forces are supported by the US. This support does not come free. The US's largesse is reserved for those who are most loyal to the US.

So when India has to oppose Pakistan or fight Pakistan, or get Pakistan to comply with something - Pakistanis are able to cock a snook at India because they have actually done yeoman service for the US and the US stands by them. Now you tell me how far India can get by opposing Pakistan alone and pretending that Pakistan is our sole problem

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 May 2010 07:00

SBajwa wrote:1993 World Trade Center Bombing planned by Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj and financed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. Terrorists learned from this attack and decided to use Airplanes.

Then, there was the precursor to 9/11 and the later August 2006 Trans-Atlantic flights case. The precursor was the Trans-Pacific Bojinke Plot of circa 1995. Again Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his nephew Ramzi Yousef were involved.

That set off another terrorist attack against the Americans. Ramzi Yousef was an alumnus of the “University of Dawah and Jihad” set up in the mid-eighties in Peshawar by Professor Abdurrab Rasul Sayyaf. In a possible retaliation for the extradition of Ramzi Yousef, two Americans on their way to the US Consulate in Karachi were shot and killed.

Before all that, in Jan 1993, Mir Aimal Kansi killed two CIA employees at CIA Headquarters at Virginia and escaped to Pakistan from where he was captured later on. On Nov. 12, 1997, four Americans working for Union Texas Petroleum Co. were killed in Karachi in retaliation for the conviction of Mir Aimal Kansi.

Then, there was the burning down of the US embassy in Nov. 1979 by the Islamists of the IJT and the deliberately slow response of Gen. Zia-ul-Haq to rescue the trapped Americans. In c. 1965, the State deliberately allowed mobs to attack and smash the Lahore & Karachi embassies of the US in anger against US not coming to its side in the war against India. Just a day prior to Bush's Presidential visit to Pakistan in March 2006, there was a suicide attack on the US Embassy at Karachi which killed the Head of Security of the Consulate there, a US Foreign Officer. The latest was the April 5, 2010 attack on the well-fortified and heavily guarded US Embassy in Peshawar.

The Pakistanis had never hesitated to attack the Americans.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 07:00

Karna_A wrote: Where one lives and how one lives are very poor indicators of patriotism.
It's like saying Nehru was way more patriotic than Subhash Chandra Bose as Nehru was living in India and Bose was abroad.

Absolutely. If an Indian lives in India and has some feelings of kinship with Pakistan, is he less patriotic than the Indian who lives in the US and feels some kinship towards the US?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 06 May 2010 07:07

Karna_A wrote:
Where one lives and how one lives are very poor indicators of patriotism.
It's like saying Nehru was way more patriotic than Subhash Chandra Bose as Nehru was living in India and Bose was abroad.

Well Sir, Bose was walking the talk for his convictions. He was not sitting abroad advising Nehru about what he should be doing. Actually, by that logic some non-resident pakis are actually more 'patriotic' than NRIs. They live in the US but hate it enough to actually try and hurt the country (because US is an 'enemy' of muslims). What does this tell us about NRIs?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 May 2010 07:13

Brad Goodman wrote:
Kati wrote:On Yahoo news site I have been tracking all the comments related to this Faisal Shahzad guy and/or NY bomb plot case. Doing this nonstop for the last two days. having lotsa fun akela akela.
You should post nuggets for not so well read ppl on this forum.

There are also unfortunately, many pathetic ==, let us be nice to Pakis kind of posts which makes you sick...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 May 2010 07:15

Suppiah wrote:
There are also unfortunately, many pathetic ==, let us be nice to Pakis kind of posts which makes you sick...

Also posts that say "Learn form the US about how to treat Pakistan"

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 06 May 2010 07:16

This is about 7 minutes long video in Urdu which goes on to show all the coincidences from Kasab to Kerry to Kiyani and shines light on all the conspiracies that NY bomber is just a drama to malign Pakistan.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 May 2010 07:19

Brad Goodman wrote:Other than that I am against communalizing artist especially Rafi Vs Kishore debate. No one in Indian cinema has sang bhajan's better than Rafi be it Man Tadpat Hari Darshan Ko from Baiju Bawra or Sai Baba Bolo from Shirdi Ke Sai baba are immortal songs. He has also sung bhajans in marathi that I know of.

Same goes for Parveen Sultana's bhajans or songs....100% agree...let us keep away from that.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 May 2010 07:22

Not that I am saying, I am just cutting and pasting (from the al jalzeera blog)
Elegantly put

Mr. Khan displays neither rancour nor "anger" for his kindred sorts who have brought this upon him and themselves. It is not lazy thinking which blames the victim because victimhood, among Muslims, has become a fashionable article of faith. Insecure in their moorings, and buoyant in the shallow sea of their philosophy, they consistently resist introspection or asking the gut question, which some reflective Americans raise: "Why do they hate us?" It ought to be squarely put by them to themselves.

Sullen, strident, arrogant, obsessed with "honour and face" --so paramount among us coloureds, both, Muslims and non-Muslims-- they cannot tackle highly questionable aspects of Islamic theology and praxis. Their conduct is partly, admittedly, affected by external circumstances, whence Muslims shabbily conduct themselves in the public domain. But it will not do to contend that, as believers, they are obliged to resist injustice and oppression, a highly dubious objection. A corollary is that Muslims have been and are frequently at the giving, not receiving, end so they cannot complain of being held to more stringent moral standards than others. Additionally, whenever Muslims, (and I coarsely employ the substantive here for categorization), clammer for rights, it is always demanded in plural, corporate terms. But where obligations, the obverse side of the coin, are concerned, Mr. Khan among others, protest their innocence and honourable standing in singular, individual terms. And they do so appealing to western, legal, normative practices, which, in the main, do not co-habit comfortably with traditional Islamic ones. Occidental liberals are only too willing to naively back flip given their perennial cringe. Does not Mr. Khan ever, even fleetingly, feel irked by the notoriety cultivated by his brethren during those agonizing interrogations he has to endure during his sojourns? How skewed and unfortunate that his temper and patience are not tried by one of his own but by those outside his fold who retain the audacity to probe him. Therein is the tragedy of Pakistanis, Muslims – and the hapless Mr. Khan.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 06 May 2010 07:23

shiv wrote:
Karna_A wrote: Where one lives and how one lives are very poor indicators of patriotism.
It's like saying Nehru was way more patriotic than Subhash Chandra Bose as Nehru was living in India and Bose was abroad.
Absolutely. If an Indian lives in India and has some feelings of kinship with Pakistan, is he less patriotic than the Indian who lives in the US and feels some kinship towards the US?

Yes, surely because TSP is an enemy country whereas US is not.
What is more worrisome is a blanket statement about NRIs as if living in US has somehow clouded their thinking.
Israeli PM Netanyahu held US citizenship, has studied mostly in US, but his patriotism is never doubted.

In fact I compare NRIs with Cosmonaut Rakesh Sharma who went the furthest from India and still said "Sare Jahan se Acha Hindustan Hamara"

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 06 May 2010 07:27

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6 ... liticsNews

"We received $468 million last night," said Syed Wasimuddin, chief spokesman for the State Bank of Pakistan.

The bank said on Tuesday it had received the first $188 million last Friday.
Pakistan's role in the battle against militants has been highlighted in recent days with the arrest in the United States of a Pakistani-American in connection with a botched car bomb in New York's Times Square.

One seriously has to have deep connections within the press gallery to actually put a spin such as above. Have to give it to bakis about their immense capacity for GUBO.