Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 May 2010 06:28

Gus wrote:How about this....I would rather be profiled than have pakis pass of as Indians.

Pakis cannot pass off as Indians. They look nothing like Indians. Their behaviour and demeanour is un-Indian. Which is a great blessing to the TSA, the cops and federal agents here in the US. How else do you think TSA can easily pull out pakis (even if they are masquerading as Indians) from airport security lines and yet allow genuine Indians to pass, unhindered.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 09 May 2010 06:38

There is a saying among the brits, " the most dangerous person in the world is a paki with a british passport", now they'll have to modify it to "the most dangerous person in the world is a paki with either a british or US passport".This is what one of the guest stated on The Journal editorial show today.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 09 May 2010 06:43

Last Plane to Lahore

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-marc- ... 68892.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2010 06:51

yesterday in WI t20 match there were a pack of snarling ghetto dawg paki supporters in the audience making rude gestures at the winning team - the camera quickly panned away.

must have flown in from jackson heights.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 May 2010 07:01

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/world ... pstan.html

General Kayani, with whom General McChrystal has forged a positive relationship, was essentially told, “ ‘You can’t pretend any longer that this is not going on,’ ” another American official said. “ ‘We are saying you have got to go into North Waziristan.’ ”

The American ambassador to Pakistan, Anne Patterson, met Pakistan’s president, Asif Ali Zardari, after the failed bombing and used “forceful” language to convey the American point that the Pakistanis had to move more assertively against the militants threaded through the society, a Pakistani official said.

...

Since Mr. Shahzad’s arrest in the Times Square attack, each country has, to some extent, blamed the other. Many Pakistanis insist that Mr. Shahzad is an American citizen who was radicalized in the United States by the difficulties he found living there as a Muslim. The Americans stress that Mr. Shahzad has traveled more than a dozen times back to Pakistan from the United States since 1999, and appeared to have received his military training in the epicenter of militancy, North Waziristan.

Mr. Shahzad’s background as the son of a senior Pakistani military officer has embarrassed the Pakistani Army, the most powerful institution in the country, and which receives generous financing from the United States. Mr. Shahzad’s father was a vice marshal in the Pakistani Air Force, and it appears that Mr. Shahzad grew up around senior military officers.

...
.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 May 2010 07:30

From B. Raman

http://ramanstrategicanalysis.blogspot. ... -link.html

10. Since Rashid Rauf joined it in 2002, the JEM has been training members of the Pakistani diaspora in the UK. The Zazi’s case was the first indication that it may be training jihadi volunteers from the US too. As part of the investigation into the attempted incendiary attack in Times Square of New York by Faisal Shahzad, a US citizen of Pakistani origin, on May 1,2010, four suspected members of the JEM in Pakistan are reported to have been detained by the Pakistani authorities. Among those detained is one Muhammed Rehan, a suspected associate of Shahzad who allegedly has links to the JEM. According to a senior Pakistani official, Rehan made possible a meeting between Shahzad and at least one senior Taliban official. He alleged that Rehan drove Shahzad on July 7, 2009, to Peshawar. They also went to the Waziristan region, where they met with one or more senior Taliban leaders.

11. The suspected involvement of the JEM in the training of Faisal, if proved correct, would indicate, in the wake of its involvement in the motivation and training of the Zazi cell, a possible link between the members of the Zazi cell and Faisal. It would also indicate the possibility that like Zazi, Faisal was not acting alone. The JEM is becoming as worrisome as the LET as a surrogate of Al Qaeda using angry elements in the Pakistani diaspora for acts of terrorism not only in the UK as it had done in the past, but also in the US now.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 May 2010 07:36

Mark Steyn takes an operatic view of fiasco shahzad

The story of the Times Square bomber reads like some Urdu dinner-theater production of Mel Brooks’s The Producers that got lost in translation between here and Peshawar: A man sets out to produce the biggest bomb on Broadway since Dance a Little Closer closed on its opening night in 1983.

Everything goes right: He gets a parking space right next to Viacom, owners of the hated Comedy Central! But then he gets careless: He buys the wrong fertilizer. He fails to open the valve on the propane tank. And next thing you know, his ingenious plot is the non-stop laugh riot of the Great White Way.

Ha-ha! What a loser! Why, the whole thing’s totally — what’s the word? — “amateurish,” according to multiple officials. It “looked amateurish,” scoffed New York’s Mayor Bloomberg. “Amateurish,” agreed Janet Napolitano, the White House amateurishness czar.

LOL

Is it so unreasonable to foresee that one day one of these guys will buy the wrong lamp oil and a defective wick and drop the Camp Osama book of matches in a puddle as he’s trying to light the bomb, and yet, this time, amazingly, it actually goes off?

Not really.

Last year, not one but two “terrorism task forces” discovered that U.S. Army psychiatrisat Nidal Hasan was in regular e-mail contact with the American-born, Yemeni-based cleric Ayman al-Awlaki but concluded that this was consistent with the major’s “research interests,” so there was nothing to worry about. A few months later, Major Hasan gunned down dozens of his comrades while standing on a table shouting “Allahu Akbar!” That was also consistent with his “research interests,” by the way. A policy of relying on stupid jihadists to screw it up every time will inevitably allow one or two to wiggle through.

Hopefully not on a nuclear scale.

He’s not an exception, he’s the rule. The Pantybomber is a wealthy Nigerian who lived in a London flat worth £2 million. Kafeel Ahmed, who died driving a flaming SUV into the concourse of Glasgow Airport, was president of the Islamic Society of Queen’s University, Belfast. Omar Sheikh, the man who beheaded Daniel Pearl, was a graduate of the London School of Economics. Mohammed Atta was a Hamburg University engineering student. Osama bin Laden went to summer school at Oxford. Educated men.

Westernized men.

Men who could be pulling down big six-figure salaries anywhere on the planet — were it not that their Islamic identity trumps everything else: elite education, high-paying job, Western passport.

Nothing new for BRF but haven't heard it quote put like that.

As for the idea that America has become fanatically “Islamophobic” since 9/11, au contraire: Were America even mildly “Islamophobic,” it would have curtailed Muslim immigration, or at least subjected immigrants from Pakistan, Yemen, and a handful of other hotbeds to an additional level of screening.

Instead, Muslim immigration to the West has accelerated in the last nine years, and, as the case of Faisal Shahzad demonstrates, being investigated by terrorism task forces is no obstacle to breezing through your U.S. citizenship application. An “Islamophobic” America might have pondered whether the more extreme elements of self-segregation were compatible with participation in a pluralist society:

Instead, President Obama makes fawning speeches boasting that he supports the rights of women to be “covered” — rather than the rights of the ever lengthening numbers of European and North American Muslim women beaten, brutalized, and murdered for not wanting to be covered. America is so un-Islamophobic that at Ground Zero they’re building a 13-story mosque — on the site of an old Burlington Coat Factory damaged by airplane debris that Tuesday morning.

So, in the ruins of a building reduced to rubble in the name of Islam, a temple to Islam will arise.

Accurately nails the dhimmedia behavior, so much allied with gotus goals otherwise.

And, whenever the marshmallow illusions are momentarily discombobulated, the entire political-media class rushes forward to tell us that the thwarted killer was a “lone wolf,” an “isolated extremist.” According to Mayor Bloomberg a day or two before Shahzad’s arrest, the most likely culprit was “someone who doesn’t like the health-care bill” (that would be me, if your SWAT team’s at a loose end this weekend).

Even after Shahzad’s arrest, the Associated Press, CNN, and the Washington Post attached huge significance to the problems the young jihadist had had keeping up his mortgage payments. Just as, after Major Hasan, the “experts” effortlessly redefined “post-traumatic stress disorder” to apply to a psychiatrist who’d never been anywhere near a war zone, so now the housing market is the root cause of terrorism: Subprime terrorism is a far greater threat to America than anything to do with certain words beginning with I- and ending in -slam.

Incidentally, one way of falling behind with your house payments is to take half a year off to go to Pakistan and train in a terrorist camp. Perhaps Congress could pass some sort of jihadist housing credit?

Oh, read it all. Lest I endup copy pasting the entire article only.

Jai ho.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 09 May 2010 08:46

Asian Tigers’ release videotape of kidnapped journalist

PESHAWAR: The Asian Tigers on Saturday released a new videotape of the kidnapped journalist Assad Qureshi and set May 15 as the final deadline for acceptance of their demands.

Former Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) officer Colonel (retd) Imam is also being held hostage by this mysterious organisation. The group has already executed another former ISI official Squadron Leader (retd) Khalid Khwaja.

This new video contradicted media reports claiming that Colonel Imam and Assad Qureshi had been released and handed over to the administration in Miramshah, the headquarters of North Waziristan, a few days ago.
“There was no breakthrough in talks between the Asian Tigers and the Jirga of Taliban commanders and pro-Taliban clerics in North Waziristan,” said Muhammad Omar, a spokesman for the Taliban Media Centre, reportedly representing the Punjabi Taliban operating in the militancy-stricken tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan.

Omar said he was not directly involved in the talks, but was aware of the talks for the release of the two men.

“Do you want to take a lesson from the fate of Khwaja? Or ...,” a statement sent by the Asian Tigers to the media said while referring to the deadline set for the acceptance of the demands, adding: “You have to act fast. No more child’s play.”

In the videotape, which was also sent to The News, Assad Qureshi is shown clean-shaven and seems somewhat relaxed.

In their previous video messages, Assad, Khalid Khwaja and Colonel Sultan Amir Tarar, better known as Colonel Imam, were looking quite worried. He had a beard and moustache in that video.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 09 May 2010 08:55

Qureshi guy appears to be the british agent (not just citizen) trying to restore their interest by tapkaaoing all those threatning their apple cart which include current / future high profile politicians. Note that Sheikh guy who killed US journalist Daniel Pearl was also rumored to be a british agent according BB(?) in one of her video.

won't be surprised if the Imam guy also is tapkaaoed while this guy goes scott free.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 May 2010 08:56

Shared Goals for Pakistan's Militants
Interviewee: General David H. Petraeus

http://www.cfr.org/publication/22064/sh ... tants.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 May 2010 08:56

Pakistan's New Generation of Terrorists

http://www.cfr.org/publication/15422/pa ... rists.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 May 2010 09:13

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/i ... 283096.htm
Indian filmmaker documents image of Pakistan war with Taliban

After a prolonged fight, the film showed, the soldiers freed the village from the Taliban, recaptured it and cache of arms left by them.
Another village in South Waziristan another scene -- a few meters away from the flattened house of Baitullah Masood who was killed in American drone attack in August 2009, a training center bore testimony of how the Taliban used to brainwash impressionable boys as old as 14 and 15.It's where they used to be trained into suicide bombers and to be martyrs to give up their life in the name of religion, to secure a place in heaven and eventually to be blessed with never ending bliss in the company of virgin girls.The center walls are etched with to-be-suicide-bombers' blood signatures before leaving on assignments.Gandhi embedded with the Pakistani Army through his documentary showed the remote and inaccessible region and its people caught in the crossfire. A young smart girl Malala Yusuf Zai in the Swat Valley condemning the Taliban for forcing her to leave her education gave a sense of how extremists were damaging civil society by enforcing extreme regressive way of life.Gandhi also traveled to other towns including Rawalpindi to show the menace of Suicide bombers. He has shown how "over- stretched' Pakistani soldiers are engaged in fighting the Taliban who quite often slip in from Afghanistan, how the war on terror has uprooted many of its people, some of whom are now living as refugees in Dera Ghazi Khan and depending on the government aid

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 May 2010 09:20

Code: Select all

FBI seek access to  one of Shahzad’s fathers  
ISLAMABAD, May 08: The US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) team investigating Faisal Shahzad’s case has visited Pabbi, Nowshera and Hassanabdal on Saturday and seeks access to Shahzad's father. The FBI team which is in Islamabad to investigate the links of militants with Shahzad has gathered quite a lot of information. [b]Sources indicated that the team has sought access to Shahzad's father Air Vice Marshal (retd) Baharul Haq who is currently under protective custody[/b]. The FBI team also met with high ranking government officials. Sources also revealed that a friend of Shahzad who was arrested from Karachi has now been shifted to Islamabad and is being questioned by Pakistani intelligence agencies and the FBI team.—DawnNews

http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/ne ... p?id=16692

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 May 2010 09:29

A jet fuel shortage in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. International airlines flying in are not being provided fuel to fly out:

CAA refuses to provide fuel to international airlines

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 09 May 2010 09:45

praksam wrote:Last Plane to Lahore

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-marc- ... 68892.html

I see this is the most glaring fact that was discussed a zillion years ago on this very forum when Calvin was there. It was in one of those rhona-dhona threads after a certain terror attack in India when we were discussing the need of POTA etc.

The western-defined human rights principles, law etc are going to collapse in no time and it will be a no-holds-barred fight to finish of terrorism. The methodology of "if a person dies in suspicious condition, the first suspect is always spouse" will be applied to terror. If an attack happens the suspect will be Pakistan or Muslims. The situation is fast approaching or may have already approached. Pakis or Muslims in general can put the feeling or the seize in better terms than many of us.

Same situation exists for Muslims in India as well. The system has reached such a situation and the apeasement politics did start to crumble. However, for various other zillion complexities of India, the status quo still survived. The concept of "Hindu Terror" is brought just to postpone the situation from calling "all muslims are terrorists/suspects". However, all it needs is few more attacks in India that will take the situation to where it was about an year ago.

The options for muslims across the world are very few, for any attack genuine or wrong, the onus will be on them to prove that they are innocent which means they have to work towards cleaning up all their backyards. Ignoring due to inability or simpathy are not options. Even if they think this whole jihad is genuine, they have to change the war and they will not be able to sustain the terror. The west will lose patience due to economic chaos and they will just use the maximum effective means and give damn to their own created "free world" rules. India will also do the same at that time (both in-house and out side).

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 09 May 2010 09:45

FBI seek access to one of Shahzad’s fathers

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 May 2010 09:55

X Posted.

Salim Mansur in the Toronto Sun on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan‘s malign role as the breeding ground of “IT“ and here he does not mean “Information Technology” but rather “International Terrorism” specifically of the “Islamic Terrorism” variety:

Pakistan a breeding ground for Islamism

By SALIM MANSUR, QMI Agency
Last Updated: May 8, 2010 2:00am ..........................

Pakistan is the fertile breeding ground of Islamism for reasons that are intrinsic to its history and politics. It is the only country forcefully established with Islam as a nationalist ideology that a majority of Muslims in undivided India — including Muslims of what constitutes present-day Pakistan — rejected.

Since Britain conceded to the demand for Pakistan in the face of religious frenzy pushed by middle- and lower-class Muslim activists, the country’s history has been a series of failures of its own making. These failures have deeply embittered the thinking of that class of Pakistanis from whose rank the ruling elite comes, and whose regular pastime is to parcel blame to others for their part in making Pakistan a terrorist-exporting rogue and failed state. ………………….........

Toronto Sun

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 09 May 2010 09:58

harbans wrote:
The comment has angered some Pakistanis. ''I’d rather be called a terrorist than an Indian,'' one Pakistani blogger fumed, even as the American media was filled with self-lacerating laments from Pakistani-Americans about their future in the US.
^^ Of course CR reads BR! He took a snippet verbatim from what i posted here a few months back and next day it was on TOI

I searched thru deff and could'nt find it. Have they removed it? Too much echandee loss?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 May 2010 10:06

abhishek_sharma wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/world ... pstan.html

...Many Pakistanis insist that Mr. Shahzad is an American citizen who was radicalized in the United States by the difficulties he found living there as a Muslim.

This is the exact same line that the pukis parrot out when they bring up any bomb blast and connect it to "homegrown terrorism". Ingenious that they use it with the americans too.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 May 2010 10:12

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is racking up one epithet after another for its fondness for indulging in “IT”, here short form not for “Information Techno;ogy” but rather for “Islamic Terrorism”.

Adding to the Toronto Sun’s epithet of “Breeding Ground for Islamism” three posts above, we have AFP terming the Islamic Republic of Pakistan a “Nursery of Global Jihad”:

Irresistible lure of Pakistan as nursery of global jihad

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 May 2010 10:26

X Posted.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan racks up yet one more epithet for its fondness for indulging in “IT”, here short form not for “Information Techno;ogy” but rather for “Islamic Terrorism”.

Adding to Salim Mansur’s epithet of “Breeding Ground for Islamism” in the Toronto Sun and AFP’s “Nursery of Global Jihad”, we have Fareed Zakaria in Newsweek terming the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as “Terrorism‘s Super Market“ :

Terrorism’s Supermarket

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 11:32

'Made in Pak' shows to be held in India

One would think that for decades now these shows are being held in India at regular intervals. For worldwide shows, please see here

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 09 May 2010 12:14

anupmisra wrote:
Pakis cannot pass off as Indians. They look nothing like Indians. Their behaviour and demeanour is un-Indian. Which is a great blessing to the TSA, the cops and federal agents here in the US. How else do you think TSA can easily pull out pakis (even if they are masquerading as Indians) from airport security lines and yet allow genuine Indians to pass, unhindered.

Its more to do with their name.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 12:54

Kamboja wrote:Respected members, not sure if this is the correct forum, but I humbly submit a brief article I wrote up today on the link between P'stan and terror.

A bit of context: so many of my American friends are completely nonplussed when faced with Faisal Shahzad-type incidents, and don't connect the dots between P'stan and terrorism.

Kamboja, a good effort. About 15 years back, I was compelled to take a similar interest in Pakistan in similar circumstances like yours.

I also wanted to avoid politics and deeper cultural discussion as much as possible, which necessarily ignores some important issues but hopefully not at the cost of the overall thesis.

Do not bring in the Indian viewpoint as much as possible because your American friends might dismiss your efforts as Indian propaganda. Deeper cultural & religious issues as well as the Indian context cannot be avoided while discussing Pakistan, but that can be done without appearing to be biased.

. . . in particular, pointing me in the direction of a more concrete list of terror incidents involving Pakistan would be excellent.

You can look at Pakistani terrorism against India and its terrorism internationally as separate pieces (though it is all one and the same). For the former, there are two places you can turn to. One is right here in BRf. The other is South Asian terrorism portal or SATP. For the latter, you may see this. If you want more details, send me a mail at raptor underscore ss AT Hotm . . .

This article is an attempt to educate and inform those types, so keep in mind that it is geared to Western layman audiences.

http://guidestogo.blogspot.com/

It is a well written article. Good job.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 May 2010 12:57

arun wrote:X Posted.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan racks up yet one more epithet for its fondness for indulging in “IT”, here short form not for “Information Techno;ogy” but rather for “Islamic Terrorism”.

Adding to Salim Mansur’s epithet of “Breeding Ground for Islamism” in the Toronto Sun and AFP’s “Nursery of Global Jihad”, we have Fareed Zakaria in Newsweek terming the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as “Terrorism‘s Super Market“ :

Terrorism’s Supermarket

As much as I have been critical of Fareed Zakariah in the past as being an Uncle Tom, of late I do see him telling some home truths about TSP. I doubt if he is saying these things against the prevailing wind among the ruling US elite, perhaps he is reflecting a broad cross section. And if so, thats good news for India. I am going to watch his show tomorrow on CNN to see if he talks about this more. On the west coast his show as at 10 AM, by which time Dhoni & his men would have finishied taking on the Windies, and I hope they do well too

. So busy Sunday morning for me.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 13:25

Youth & Militancy - Dr. Hasan-Askari Rizvi

These militant groups are not the only source of Islamic radicalism in Pakistan. Islamic political parties and a large section of the Islamic clergy based in mainland Pakistan preach radical Islamic perspectives of Pakistan and the rest of the world. Friday sermons in a large number of mosques, especially those whose prayer leaders are affiliated with Islamic parties or militant groups, preach how the West is out to undermine the Muslims and the Islamic world. It is easy to get radical ideological inspiration in Pakistan because Islamic orthodoxy and militancy have seeped deep into Pakistan’s state system and society.

By September 2001, at least one and a half generations had been socialised into religious orthodoxy and militancy as a desirable mindset and a frame for action. These people have reached the middle level positions in government, the military, and other services.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 May 2010 13:28

Paki intel guys doing what they do best:
Pak sets free most terrorists held for failed NY plot

Pakistani intelligence agencies have freed many suspected militants, including two Jaish-e-Muhammed operatives, who were arrested over alleged links with Faisal Shahzad, the American citizen of Pakistani origin who has confessed to plotting the bungled Times Square bombing.

Sources said intelligence agencies have released most of the 20 members of various banned terror outfits who were apprehended to probe their links with Shahzad.

They were sent back to their homes on Friday night after they were found innocent.

It is not clear whether Sheik Mohammed Rehan, a top JeM leader, who purportedly drove Shahzad from Karachi to Peshawar in July 2009, was arrested or not.

Love the brazenness of the Pakis

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 May 2010 13:29

This new video contradicted media reports claiming that Colonel Imam and Assad Qureshi had been released and handed over to the administration in Miramshah, the headquarters of North Waziristan, a few days ago.

Pak is really a bewildering place and amazingly tough to keep track of!!! Wonder if ANYONE knows whats going on in that hellhole?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 May 2010 13:47

Quite subtly and surreptitiously - I am finding that a lot of articles written by Packees are referring to "Islamic extremism" or "Islamic radicalism". I have been remiss - I should archive them

Because just a few short years ago any connection of Islam with violence was rejected as "islamophobia". Now all that has changed and there appears to be a new brand of Islam called "islamic extremism". It is another matter that everyone else on earth knew what was going on but do you recall an islamic conference meeting a few years ago where a Malaysian envoy piped up and said Islam is a religion of peace? And the international ROTFLs that followed?

So what is this "islamic extremism" that Pakis are suddenly taiking about? I was under the impression that we have a uniform, peaceful and egalitarian religion with no variations or brands.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 13:47

Paths of terrorism lead but to Pakistan - Ardeshir Cowasjee

I love it. That's a twist of Thomas Grey's words in the 'Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard' which says, "The Paths of Glory lead but to the grave".

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 14:13

Invaders & Conquerors

Recently a politician, commenting on the question of heroes, referred to Mohammad Bin Qasim as an invader who led the Arab army for the conquest of Sindh in 711 and to Raja Dahar as the ruler and defender of Sindh who resisted the Arab invasion and died in the battlefield fighting against the invaders. He claimed that his hero is Dahar and not Mohammad Bin Qasim.

Sindh historians are divided into two groups: nationalists and Islamists. The argument of the nationalists is that Mohammad Bin Qasim was the representative of the Umayyad Empire and invaded Sindh like other imperial powers to plunder the resources of the occupied country. The Islamists’ point of view is that as a result of Arab invasion, Sindh converted to Islam. Therefore, Arab occupation was a blessing which made Sindh the Babul Islam or door of Islam to the Indian subcontinent.

Alexander, who defeated Porus, was eulogised as a great conqueror by Europeans, partly because he was Greek, while the gallantry of those who fought against him is largely ignored. Intellectually we are so inferior that we also call him great rather than recognising Porus as the defender. Recently, we have built a monument at the bank of Jehlum in memory of our defeat and Alexander’s victory. What kind of historical sense does that speak of?

In another example, Mahmud of Ghazna is praised as the great conqueror who invaded India 17 times and defeated the rulers of different kingdoms. His first encounter was with Raja Jaipal who fought against him but did not surrender. His son Annandpal continued resistance against Mahmud but was finally defeated by him. Both Jaipal and Annandpal are waiting for some historian to bring to light their resistance and sacrifices and place them on the pedestal of heroes. {Didn't Quaid-e-Azam say "Our heroes are your villains" to Mahatma Gandhi ? So, where does it place him ?}Similarly, Muhammad Ghori fought against Prithviraj whose role, so far, is not recognised by us.

The simple reason for this contradiction is that when we relate history with religion and nationalism, we sacrifice the rational point of view and justify all acts of ‘our side.’ The correct view to understand and analyse history is to study it by relating it to power. This would create real consciousness and liberate us from the communal version of history. Invaders and conquerors are a curse to those nations who were invaded It is time to condemn them and place them in the dock of history, not as heroes but plunderers and murderers. This interpretation will change our historical understanding.

AoA

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 May 2010 16:52

praksam wrote:Last Plane to Lahore http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-marc- ... 68892.html

No more visits to granny or granpa in pureland! Especially when they are paying for your two-week summer camps in the old country so that you can get to know the old country of your origin better. Bythe way, here's a statement in this post that seems to be oft-repeated lately:

Pakistan is a veritable terrorism supermarket and has become ground zero of Salafist terrorism and its supporters -- no thanks to an indifferent Pakistani government that has consistently turned a blind eye to to the threats its own intelligence agency -- the ISI help incubate more often than not.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 May 2010 16:53

Singha wrote:must have flown in from jackson heights.

part time taxi drivers on vacation.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 09 May 2010 17:30

SSridhar wrote:In another example, Mahmud of Ghazna is praised as the great conqueror who invaded India 17 times and defeated the rulers of different kingdoms. His first encounter was with Raja Jaipal who fought against him but did not surrender. His son Annandpal continued resistance against Mahmud but was finally defeated by him. Both Jaipal and Annandpal are waiting for some historian to bring to light their resistance and sacrifices and place them on the pedestal of heroes.

The Hindu Shahis of Afghanistan. When I brought this up a few weeks ago, some ignorant members were disputing this. Of course, the Paki does not mention Trilochan Pal Shahi, but still, good enough.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 17:36

US drone strike in North Waziristan: 10 killed

Vinod Ji · Post by **Vinod Ji** » 09 May 2010 18:16

BREAKING NEWS:

Pakistani Taliban behind failed car bomb attack in New York, says US attorney general

BBC

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 May 2010 18:35

'Pakistan Taliban' behind Times Square bomb plot

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 09 May 2010 18:59

...Many Pakistanis insist that Mr. Shahzad is an American citizen who was radicalized in the United States by the difficulties he found living there as a Muslim.

These type of statements need to be fought by US and increasingly by India. Nobody cares where a person is getting radicalized, but where is the terrorist training happening? Why is Pakistan allowing its people to conduct terrorist trainings? That is the real question

Pakistanis are hiding behind the fundamentialist jargon which nobody should allow them to do so. There should be a differentiation between fundamentalism and terrorism. Thats because fundamentalism can have different levels in a democracy (hard core / medium / liberal) but terrorism has only one level that of being criminal

By saying that there is muslim fundamentalism like Christian, Jew in US, Pakis are sidestepping the real issue

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 May 2010 20:48

symontk wrote: Nobody cares where a person is getting radicalized, but where is the terrorist training happening? Why is Pakistan allowing its people to conduct terrorist trainings? That is the real question

Well said symontk. Well said. i have been feeling this but have been unable to express it in words as you have done.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 09 May 2010 21:00

Can you guys post comments on yahoo 9at the end of news articles)?
Looks like some one is barring anti-paki comments.