Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 May 2010 21:09

Gerard wrote:'Pakistan Taliban' behind Times Square bomb plot

"We've now developed evidence that shows that the Pakistani Taliban was behind the attack," Mr Holder said on ABC television's Sunday current affairs talk show This Week.
"We know that they helped facilitate it. We know that they probably helped finance it, and that [Shahzad] was working at their direction."
Mr Holder said there was nothing to suggest the government of Pakistan was aware of the plot.

This news item shows the connection between the Paki government and the Taliban. I can see it. BRFites can see it, but whether the Us government wants to see it is another issue.

The Paki army allows the Taliban to survive. It allows the likes of this joker to get trained by the Taliban. But when it comes to providing references and security clearances (for visas) travel documents and banking services to the indoctrinated individual, the Pakistan government does it and claims no link with the Taliban.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 09 May 2010 21:22

Not sure what the purpose of this cartoon is. I thought MMS was the best Pakfriend that Pakis could hope for in India:

http://www.nation.com.pk/uploads/news_i ... _11740.jpg

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 09 May 2010 21:33

^^^^ They've become such a simplistic devolved people. It's kind of sad actually.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 09 May 2010 21:47

- The PA's advance in to South Waziristan was slow enough to give the bulk of jihadis time to withdraw in to North Waziristan.

- The PA has both direct and indirect channels of communication to the Pakiban, and the message they seem to be getting is that the TTP is not willing to compromise and fall back again (Kurram Agency is not ideal), and that the PA would really have to fight it out.

- This in turn would require the PA committing significantly more troops from the eastern border with India, leaving them not just vulnerable on the ground, but in their minds vulnerable at the negotiating table.

- The PA when pushed to the wall will probably try to offer compromises to both the US and the Pakiban. For example committing to a date for an offensive in to N. Waziristan, while perhaps giving the Pakiban time to transit through their lines to the Pashtun provinces of Balochistan while others try their luck in Kurram. The question is whether this will be good enough for the Pakiban - I have my doubts.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 09 May 2010 21:48

harbans wrote: ^^ Of course CR reads BR!

Message to Chidu. I am disappointed that in the following paragraph in your article:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 907956.cms

The case of Faisal Shahzad, now dubbed the ''idiot bomber,'' was preceded by those involving Richard Reid the ''shoe bomber,'' Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab the ''undie bomber,'' Daniel Pearl stalker Omar Saeed Sheikh, the London metro bombers, paintball jihadists from Virginia, truck and cab drivers Najibullah Zazi from Denver and Raja Lahrasib Khan from Chicago, all of them involved in terror plots that typically has a Pakistan connection.

you completely forgot to mention David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana. Important in pointing out how recent terrorism arrests in the US has close connections with higher ups in the Paki military.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 May 2010 21:59

jrjrao wrote:Not sure what the purpose of this cartoon is. I thought MMS was the best Pakfriend that Pakis could hope for in India:

http://www.nation.com.pk/uploads/news_i ... _11740.jpg

In their mind they look at the missile testing as a act which puts fear in the Indian and MMS. They will keep dreaming.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 09 May 2010 22:09

I thought MMS was the best Pakfriend that Pakis could hope for in India:

JRJRAW garu, MMS is not Pakistan's friend.

Assuming the last election results were 100% authentic, he is following the electorate's janadesh to the letter. In my mind, it appears awaam do not mind giving up a a few hundred people to Jehadi explosions in prime cities provided they get stable employment....IOW 9% - 11% GDP growth rate. This is exactly what MMS is executing. They want uninterrupted economic growth for the next few years at least... (but not at any cost...there is a limit to the price they are willing to pay, we do not know what that limit is yet.( Acharya's reference to Brezenski's description of India as a tricky customer))

This reminds me of the Mahabharata episode where people of a town placate a rakshasa with one person and food and offerings so that the rest of them come and live in peace. Bhima puts a stop to all this. What India needs is a Bhima to come to it's rescue so that this will come to a stop once and for all. Unortunately for India and BRFites, we have been looking for Bhima in America and England. America and Englands are like the devataas who come to watch the battles from the skies and shower flowers on the victor. So Bhima will come from amongst Indians in India onlee......JMT

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 May 2010 22:12

shiv wrote:This news item shows the connection between the Paki government and the Taliban. I can see it. BRFites can see it, but whether the Us government wants to see it is another issue.

The US government I am sure sees it, and knows about it.
It is just that they find it more useful to keep a straight face and keep pandering to Pakistan's tantrums. Seeing that only Pakistan can provide it the required service at this point of time, they have little option, or so they think.

They don't want to go down the road where they will have to test weather the gun that pakistan is holding to its own head is loaded or not.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 May 2010 22:25

Kati wrote:Can you guys post comments on yahoo 9at the end of news articles)?
Looks like some one is barring anti-paki comments.

Can you post a link to the article? I don't see a feedback form on yahoo news articles.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 09 May 2010 22:44

Muppalla wrote:
praksam wrote:Last Plane to Lahore

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-marc- ... 68892.html
I see this is the most glaring fact that was discussed a zillion years ago on this very forum when Calvin was there. It was in one of those rhona-dhona threads after a certain terror attack in India when we were discussing the need of POTA etc.

The western-defined human rights principles, law etc are going to collapse in no time and it will be a no-holds-barred fight to finish of terrorism. The methodology of "if a person dies in suspicious condition, the first suspect is always spouse" will be applied to terror. If an attack happens the suspect will be Pakistan or Muslims. The situation is fast approaching or may have already approached. Pakis or Muslims in general can put the feeling or the seize in better terms than many of us.

Well said...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/0 ... 69244.html
Eric Holder: Miranda Rights Should Be Modified For Terrorism Suspects

Attorney General Eric Holder said for the first time today on ABC's "This Week" that the Obama administration is open to modifying Miranda protections to deal with the "threats that we now face."

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 09 May 2010 22:54

Guys you need to watch Fareed Zakaria GPS on CNN. The French guest is exactly talking what we say all the time the problem is not afganistan not iran but pakistan & saudi arabia. He mentioned Jaish & lashkar as two highly trained and having infiltrated ISI so need to be dismantled. I wish he was more harsh on TSPA but no one is rocking them in the talk though TSP is at the receiving end of the stick

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 May 2010 22:59

Brad Goodman wrote: He mentioned Jaish & lashkar as two highly trained and having infiltrated ISI so need to be dismantled.

ISI has created its own non-state actor group outside of the army.
It is not the other way round.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 May 2010 23:07

Some actions have reactions - difference is difference in technology and what it looks like after words...
After a Paki car bomb - which didn't even made a dent in watermelon -

Here comes a drone - drone in North Waziristan kills 10

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 09 May 2010 23:09

Acharya wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote: He mentioned Jaish & lashkar as two highly trained and having infiltrated ISI so need to be dismantled.
ISI has created its own non-state actor group outside of the army.
It is not the other way round.

I understand the nuance Acharya Ji but dont mind even the other way. Its not that bad still gets message across. Whether Kinfe falls on apple or apple falls on knife its same for me. Or how they say pehle aadmi sharaab ko peeta tha phir sharaab aadmi to peeti hai. ISI controlled Jaish now Jaish & lashkar control ISI least ideologically

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 09 May 2010 23:10

Acharya wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote: He mentioned Jaish & lashkar as two highly trained and having infiltrated ISI so need to be dismantled.
ISI has created its own non-state actor group outside of the army.
It is not the other way round.

Very true - but what has also happened is that as a result of the PA/ISI's promotion of the ideology of these groups loyalties of a significant number of personnel have gone beyond the formal military chain of command, and to these causes and groups.

They haven't just outsourced the dirty work to the tanzeems - in the post 9/11 era they've outsourced their ideological legitimacy as well!

The equivalent would be if Blackwater came to be seen to represent "truth, justice and the American way", while the USG was nothing more than the paid lackeys of foreigners. Where would the loyalties of serving soldiers be? Especially when many of their former colleagues, superiors and friends are now on the 'non-state' side?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2010 23:12

Amber G. wrote:Some actions have reactions - difference is difference in technology and what it looks like after words...

So you would have felt happier if Shahzad's bomb had reduced Times Square to rubble?

One cannot rely upon jihadi incompetence forever. By the time they are doing everything competently, then it will be too late to stop them.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 May 2010 23:20

Johann wrote:They haven't just outsourced the dirty work to the tanzeems - in the post 9/11 era they've outsourced their ideological legitimacy as well!

That being the case, I wonder how soon will the tanzeems usurp the ISI and Pak army and take over the job of running policy. I know they would be itching to do this right now.

But one step at a time for them. It is possible that the ISI will vacate more space to the tanzeems if massa presses the army more.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 May 2010 23:25

tsriram"]bhishek_sharma"]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/world ... pstan.html

..]Many Pakistanis insist that Mr. Shahzad is an American citizen who was radicalized in the United States by the difficulties he found living there as a Muslim. [/b]

This is the exact same line that the pukis parrot out when they bring up any bomb blast and connect it to "homegrown terrorism". Ingenious that they use it with the americans too

Question is why was he living here and not in the land of pure Isalm call Pukerstan where he was born. Same question ought to be asked to all the other who follow the Religion Of Pakistan.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 09 May 2010 23:41

Gagan wrote:
Kati wrote:Can you guys post comments on yahoo 9at the end of news articles)?
Looks like some one is barring anti-paki comments.
Can you post a link to the article? I don't see a feedback form on yahoo news articles.

Gaganji,
For example, take this article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100509/ap_ ... uare_probe

At the end of this article see the readers' comments. (Obviously most are anti-paki.)
Around may 3rd, 4th, 5th, when the news about the Paki connection hot the healines, there were strong anti-paki messages. I also saw a few pakis are crying foul like'you are an indian agent....How can you malign a country of 160 million for a misguided few ... etc etc".
Anyway, I don't know what happened next. probably TSP has given a hefty bribe to yahoo or others. A friend of mine told me that he couldn't post his comments (giving his heartfelt opinion about TSP). Yahoo is giving an "internal error" message. So just wondering what's going on. or, unkil now trying to close the faucet after keeping it open for a few days? BTW, you have to have a yahoo id to post your comments.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 May 2010 23:46

So you would have felt happier if Shahzad's bomb had reduced Times Square to rubble?

Bait, will not bite and will not dignify that with a response.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 May 2010 23:50

Shrileen-e-hag has her own opinion on the Faisal Sahahzad bum episode: The hag is blaming the civil - military leadership.
Bismilla farmaiye:
Pak being “set up” but civil-mly leadership remains silent

Hillary Clinton has once again come into her own true self and issued a direct threat to Pakistan of “severe consequences” if the ‘terror attack’ of Times Square New York City had been successful and found to have definitively originated in Pakistan. It brings to mind an earlier moment when Hillary, during the course of her unsuccessful bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, had responded to a question on whether she would use tactical nuclear weapons against Pakistan in the context of a terror attack linked to Pakistan and she unhesitatingly declared “Yes”! She was also right up there with Bush on the question of the Iraq war until she realised how unpopular it was becoming within her own country. So she is very much in the same mould as Condi Rice! {Bismilla! Aap ke mooh mein ghee-shakkar.}

Further there's some of her own bit of invest-e-gative journalism.

Why should one presume the whole incident was created?
First: How come the explosion did not go off?
Two: How come such an easy trail of evidence was laid to track Faisal Shahzad?
Three: How come, he confessed to everything so easily and immediately?
Four: How come the US immediately, as if already prepared, began demanding permission for more troops into Pakistan?
Five: How come the CIA immediately announced more drone attacks on Pakistan?
In other words, things moved in an almost synchronized manner in succession that they had to have been pre-planned.
Six: Why are the US government and media paying no heed to Shahzad’s alleged connection to the Yemeni cleric and to the Taliban’s clear denial of any link to Shahzad?{Bottom line: Ms Mazari is clearly pissed that the darn bum didn't go off! [/disappointed]}

It is a

article, and surprise surprise, India is not mentioned even once!

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 10 May 2010 00:05

SSridhar wrote:Paths of terrorism lead but to Pakistan - Ardeshir Cowasjee

Is he Indian? or Parsi?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 May 2010 00:05

Pakistan's two missile tests video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ix4nRdovTk

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 May 2010 00:08

Carl_T wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Paths of terrorism lead but to Pakistan - Ardeshir Cowasjee

Is he Indian? or Parsi?

He is a Zoroastrian, and is a newspaper columnist and head of the Cowasjee group - one of the oldest shipping agencies in Pakistan.
He is a pakistani citizen.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 10 May 2010 00:15

FBI seek access to Shahzad’s father

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 May 2010 00:16

Kati wrote:Can you guys post comments on yahoo 9at the end of news articles)?
Looks like some one is barring anti-paki comments.

Kati wrote:Gaganji,
For example, take this article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100509/ap_ ... uare_probe

I just posted my response. That response section is really moving fast. My response appeared immediately.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 10 May 2010 00:18

I think we post our comments, we should make it clear that it is the Indian view. We should make it clear which country has been the victim the most from TSP.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 May 2010 00:19

Gerard wrote:FBI seek access to Shahzad’s father

My gawd! What a brat!
Now the whole family will have to GUBO to FBI, CIA, RAW, Mossad, Somalian intel agency, Liberian Intel Agency ...

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 10 May 2010 01:18

bibi:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8671483.stm

A man has been held at Karachi airport after batteries and an electrical circuit were found in his shoes as he tried to board a plane, reports say.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 10 May 2010 01:44

Pakistan is 'epicenter of Islamic terrorism'

This could so easily have been a everyday post on BR, perhaps leads me to believe that Mr. Zakaria has been browsing BR for some much needed "strategic insight" wrt TSP.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 10 May 2010 03:36

Nihat wrote:Pakistan is 'epicenter of Islamic terrorism'

This could so easily have been a everyday post on BR, perhaps leads me to believe that Mr. Zakaria has been browsing BR for some much needed "strategic insight" wrt TSP.

Or simply a case of the old truism. "BRF: Where tomorrows insights are born today."

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 10 May 2010 05:12

Gagan wrote:
Johann wrote:They haven't just outsourced the dirty work to the tanzeems - in the post 9/11 era they've outsourced their ideological legitimacy as well!
That being the case, I wonder how soon will the tanzeems usurp the ISI and Pak army and take over the job of running policy. I know they would be itching to do this right now.

But one step at a time for them. It is possible that the ISI will vacate more space to the tanzeems if massa presses the army more.

The Afghan Taliban and the LeT are the last jihadi groups that Pakistan has continued to protect and maintain good relations with, and those ties are also under slow, but building pressure as well. There isn't going to be a single group they can rely on to be anti-Indian or anti-Kabul but not anti-American.

No one likes to be discarded -the PA in the 1980s permitted the growth of anti-Shia Deobandi tanzeems in small-town southern Pakjab, and when those groups began to threaten stability in the big cities they cracked down on them with force. Today those anti-Shia Tanzims form the *heart* of the "Punjabi Taliban". They hate the PA and ISI's guts with a vengeance, and have hit hard them hard at all levels. Khalid Khwaja's recent execution was another strike.

As I was saying earlier the PA's willingness to sell out any of its adopted children for enough money in contravention of the ideology they've promoted since Zia is going to leave them with very unpalatable choices as those children (who are quite grown up now) turn vengeful.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 10 May 2010 05:29

Arrested Karachi Shoe-bomber May Have Been Dry-Run for Airplane Attack:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100509/wl ... estairport

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 10 May 2010 05:42

Man arrested in Pakistan trying to board plane with batteries and electrical circuit in shoes

Pakistani officers arrested a man at Karachi airport after batteries and an electrical circuit were found in his shoes as he tried to board a plane for the Middle East, an official said.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 May 2010 05:46

Nihat wrote:Pakistan is 'epicenter of Islamic terrorism'

GreenGlobe
I think the latest failed bombing attempt in Time square was intentional. The reason behind any terrorist attack is to terrorize the population. The Time square bomb did not explode but it was successful in its goal of causing fear. I suspect that this was a deliberate attempt by Pakistani intelligence to send message to America that Pakistan can activate such sleeper cells at will and cause havoc in U.S. unless U.S complies with Pakistani demands of more money, more arms and support against India. The slave is blackmailing its master. less

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 May 2010 05:48

Hmmmm..................

This is really getting to be a terribly boring affair.

Now the Taliban czar, playing the card right for this time and political temperature (Pakistani experts have many cards and pull the right one based on which way the wind blows):

Pakistan faces Taliban resurgence

Guest columnist Ahmed Rashid on how Pakistan's long term counter insurgency strategy could begin to unravel as the Pakistani Taliban return with a vengeance.

Expert at work!!!!!!!!

A Taliban foot soldier would guarantee that!!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 May 2010 05:56

What have Pakistan offensives achieved?

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told the nation the militants had two choices - surrender or die.

Run as an option? And, come back in a few months?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 May 2010 05:56

Sanjay M wrote:Man arrested in Pakistan trying to board plane with batteries and electrical circuit in shoes

Pakistani officers arrested a man at Karachi airport after batteries and an electrical circuit were found in his shoes as he tried to board a plane for the Middle East, an official said.

Is he trying to detonate a bomb kept in the luggage hold (checked-in) remotely thru his shoe? Timers are unreliable because of usual flight delays in this part of world and splitting them may be a good way of getting thru security...

What surprises me is why is he choosing this flight? After all it will be full of barbaric terrorists and hardly any worthwhile target...may be this is a trial run?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 May 2010 05:58

NRao wrote: Guest columnist Ahmed Rashid on how Pakistan's long term counter insurgency strategy could begin to unravel as the Pakistani Taliban return with a vengeance.

These are the jehadi equivalent of 'house n-word s" you might call them house jehadis who pretend to be experts and neutrals but are useful to the PA/ISI to spread the right kind of propaganda in the western media. The very fact that they have survived all these years and not met their 72s tell you they can't be genuine. A real journo of Daniel Pearl kind would have had his throat slit.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 May 2010 06:23

shiv wrote: This news item shows the connection between the Paki government and the Taliban. I can see it. BRFites can see it, but whether the Us government wants to see it is another issue.

We have to go back to articles and post-Kargil report written by KS. He clearly wrote international politics and relationships between countires are extremely cruel and India needs to understand this cruelity and adjust its deal-wheel accordingly.

To me it is pretty clear from US especially Clintons and politicians of Democratic party plus the US babus also beleive with a single point direction. In asia we can handle one and only one power and that is China and there is no point in having to deal with India. That policy is being implemented to letter and spirit. They are not looking at any fair play or any humanity here. Kaliyug at full pace and nothing else.

A slight detour was on test bed during Bush regime to see if India can be pegged against China which is left on the drawing board for various reasons that are outside the perview of this thread.

To me it seems like a thousand Shehzads and even a JDAM at Time square personally by Kiyani+Mehsud with CNN live telecast will also not change US geopolitical policies. They are willing to take 911 type sacrifices to safegaurd this geopolitical route. All these warnings to TSP, Fareed Zakaria's f a r t s and rest of lungi dances are just fun. The action that follows is nothing more than few frequent drones on pastun areas. We keep reading the US based anal-ists spins here and everywhere. Actually do we really know the list of terrorists being killed in Drone attacks? None exists and will never see the light.