J & K news and discussion

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Pranav
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Pranav »

A_Gupta wrote:
surinder wrote: So IA would rather loose personnel than destroy building? If it is true, that is a sad set of priorities to have.
IA would rather win the war, paying whatever the cost is. We have seen it time and again. E.g., in Kargil they took the hard way too, and thereby achieved India's objectives. Salute them even if you don't understand them.
Buildings can be rebuilt. It's not sustainable if politicians are looting the public, while not valuing the lives of soldiers.

If you don't value the lives of your people, you will lose the respect of your soldiers, of the local population, and even the adversary.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by brihaspati »

A regular army has its limitations. Even the Brits and the US commander in AFG expressed similar muzzling concepts about psychological impact on civilians. I have not studied this, but in recent times this concern appears to coincide only if the civilians concerned are Muslims.

This could be mere coincidence, and we dont have recent cases where the same armies were operating against non-muslim areas. But the two other armies maintain special forces who are perhaps free of such restrictions. India does not maintain such units for extraterritorial ops.

An army can have legitimate problems. This can be avoided by raising a special force free of such conditional conscience and whose existence can be denied.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by AjayKK »

CRamS
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by CRamS »

AjayKK wrote:Kashmir Deal -Solution or Surrender ?

Well written article.
Might have as well written by many of us here including me. Can BR do something to present this sell out on mainstream Indian media?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by a_kumar »

X-posting.. SSridhar's post

Life in PoK
The “Azad” in AJK smacks of oxymoronic rhetoric. Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is neither a free territory, nor a province of Pakistan. Muzaffarabad has always been under the control of Islamabad and the curtailment of the freedom of expression is constitutionally protected. Without meaning to refer to the new name just bestowed on an old province, let me ask, what’s in a name?

Here is what.

There are a number of reports that describe the human rights violations in Indian Occupied Kashmir but it is hard to come by reports of violations on Pakistan’s side. The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India. The official position that there are no human rights violations in AJK is a naïve and disingenuous position that needs to be challenged. According to the Freedom House World Freedom Reports, in 2008 Pakistan-administered Kashmir was given the status “Not Free”. This index awards a score of 1 to a “free country” based on ratings of political rights and civil liberties. These ratings are averaged, ranging from 1 to 7, i.e. countries or disputed territories with scores from 1 to 2.5 are considered Free, 3 to 5 are Partly Free, and 5.5 to 7 are Not Free. In 2008, this index gave AJK a Political Rights Score of 7 and a Civil Liberties score of 5. The scores for AJK have improved to a 6 and a 5 respectively in 2010. In comparison, Indian Occupied Kashmir has better scores of 5 for political rights and a 4 for civil liberties, and a status of ‘partly free’, which ironically is exactly equivalent to Pakistan’s national score and status!

According to Brad Adams, Asia Director at Human Rights Watch , the “Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms… The military shows no tolerance for dissent and practically runs the region as a fiefdom.” The presence of an elected local government is a mere formality. In 2006, Human Rights Watch (HRW) reported that the federal government in Islamabad, the army and the ISI control all aspects of political life in AJK. Torture is routinely used in Pakistan, and this practice is also common in AJK. HRW also documented incidents of torture by the intelligence services and other agencies and individuals acting at the behest of the security establishment but knows of no cases in which members of military and paramilitary security and intelligence agencies have been prosecuted or even disciplined for acts of torture or mistreatment.

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) has also articulated tight controls on freedom of expression as a key pillar of government policy in AJK. While militant organizations promoting the incorporation of Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir State into Pakistan have had free reign to propagate their views, groups promoting an independent Kashmir find their speech curtailed. Publications and literature favouring independence are banned.

Pakistan has prevented the creation of an independent media in the territory through bureaucratic restrictions and coercion. Looking at the freedom of expression in AJK, before 2005, the only radio allowed to operate was the Azad Kashmir Radio, a subsidiary of Radio Pakistan. Similarly before the earthquake telephone landlines were limited and being strictly monitored and a very limited mobile telephone service was operational. HRW reports that all telecommunications stations were controlled by the Special Communications Organization (SCO), a functional unit of the Pakistani army. Only after the earthquake did the government allow private mobile phone companies to operate in Azad Kashmir when it was pointed out that the loss of life could have been lessened had people and rescue workers had this technology as they did in affected areas in NWFP (as it was then called).

It has been widely reported that refugees from Jammu and Kashmir are discriminated against and mistreated by the authorities. Kashmiri refugees and former militants from India, most of whom are secular nationalists and culturally and linguistically different from the people of AJK, are particularly harassed through continuous surveillance, arbitrary beating and arrests and restraints on political expression. Pakistani military bases in AJK are usually placed in close proximity to highly populated civilian areas supposedly because of a lack of space. But many Kashmiris told HRW that the Pakistani military uses the bases to keep a close watch on the population to ensure political compliance and control.

Freedoms of association and assembly are restricted and constitutionally repressed. Article 4(7)(2) of the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Interim Constitution Act of 1974, states: ‘No person or party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the States accession to Pakistan’. In recent years anti-government demonstrations have been violently suppressed and examples of these incidents are not hard to find. In 2005, at least ten people were killed when the police fired on a group of Shia students, after which curfews were imposed in Gilgit to prevent demonstrators from assembling. In 2006 police detained leaders of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, including Amanullah Khan, after they attended a peaceful rally in Rawalpindi against the construction of the Bhasha Dam. Khan was detained for a week and was not permitted to receive visitors during that time, according to the U.S. State Department’s human rights report. In October 2008, police baton-charged dozens of people demonstrating against the proposal to move the capital of Azad Kashmir from Muzaffarabad. Three people were arrested but released the same day. In November 2008, the police blocked activists of the pro-independence APNA who were protesting in favor of truck services across the line-of-control from entering a town near the line-of-control.

In 2007, the European Union (EU) passed Emma Nicholson’s Kashmir report with an overwhelming majority and adopted it as an official EU document. This kind of report sits squarely in the grey area of the AJK problem. It has been touted in the media as being anti-Pakistan and there are Kashmiris who find it pro-Kashmiri rights and some call it dubious. The key problem with this report is that it fails to acknowledge Indian repression in Kashmir and portrays a benign image of a “pro-people” India.

The EU report titled ‘Present situation and future prospects’ was critical of the fact that the Pakistan side of Kashmir was governed through the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad, that Pakistan officials dominated the Kashmir Council. This report also highlighted the facts that at the time the Chief Secretary, the Inspector-General of Police, the Accountant-General and the Finance Secretary were all from Pakistan. Nicholson disapproved of the provision in the 1974 Interim Constitution, which forbids any political activity that is not in accordance with the doctrine of Jammu and Kashmir as articulated by Pakistan, and obliges any candidate for a parliamentary seat in AJK to sign a declaration of loyalty to that effect.

Looking at the rule of law, the whole system of law and order seemingly rests on the control by the army and Islamabad. A clear illustration was given at the time of the 2005 earthquake when the AJK governmental structure collapsed. Analysts noted how, in the aftermath of 2005 earthquake the local government system was exposed. To quote Akbar Zaidi, “the local government system and its elected bodies are part of the rubble along with the entire physical infra-structure of the area.”

Due to the limited mandate of the AJK Legislative Assembly, the elected political leaders of Azad Kashmir essentially remain ostensible heads of the territory while the real power resides in Islamabad with the Ministry of Kashmir and Northern Areas (KANA). Naturally this requires an obedient AJK administration. Since the early 1990s, the decision-making authority and management of the Kashmir issue has been under the Pakistan military, the ISI and ISI backed militant organizations.

In this unique case of “self-rule”, under the constitution, the elected representatives are acquiescent to the Kashmir Council controlled by Islamabad. The High Court and Supreme Court Judges can only be appointed by approval of the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad. The Minister of Kashmir Affairs can dismiss the Prime Minister, as can the Chief Secretary – another Islamabad appointee. Under Article 56, the President of Pakistan can dissolve the Legislative Assembly.

Adding to the already dismal situation of human rights in AJK is the instability of the Northern Areas and the migration of these people into AJK. It can be argued that the appropriation of land in the Northern Areas by non-Kashmiri migrants with the tacit encouragement of the federal government and army has diminished economic opportunities for the local population. An externality of this has been an increase in sectarian tension between the majority Shia Muslims and the growing numbers of Sunnis in AJK and 2009 and 2010 have seen increasing tension and sectarian violence.

So is the human rights and law and order situation of AJK worse than that at the east of the line of control? Answers can range from “yes” to “maybe” to “no”. The truth is that this is a loaded question, and this sort of a comparison is hard to make. Reports and perspectives of AJK from the Indian side refer to AJK as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. It is indeed true that there is a lack of consideration of human rights on both sides. Yet the facts are blurred by the political biases of both sides, and neutral reports become emotionally charged. External reporting by international watchdogs like Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch are a step behind. Research by organizations like the HRCP and reporting by local news channels is only just making headway.

The 2006 Human Rights Watch report on Kashmir quotes a Muzaffarabad resident, “Pakistan says they are our friends and India is our enemy. I agree India is our enemy, but with friends like these, who needs enemies?”

AJK is yet to operate as a ‘free’ territory given the way we control it. Yet, understandably, we are loathe to accept this reality and our mainstream media is usually silent about this. Our rhetoric on AJK remains inflated and questionable.

'How free is my valley' from TFT
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by a_kumar »

X-posting SSridhar's post.

PoK is after all depicted in Indian maps as part of J&K and it needs attention appropriately in the states section rather than international section in the media.

------------------------------------------

This week's TFT is dedicated to PoK. In the last few weeks, we have seen a great tamasha going on in their judiciary. A couple of months back, there was a change of guard as well. A lot of churning is going on there.

Below is an excerpt from a Khaled Ahmed article:
We all know that ‘independence’ of AJK assembly is a myth. Article 21 of the AJK Constitution says that the government of AJK is subordinated to the Azad Jammu & Kashmir Council located in Islamabad with Prime Minister of Pakistan as chairman calling all the shots. Deconstruct this further and at the existential level it is the bureaucrat secretary of the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs who actually rules AJK. Of course one can deconstruct it further and say that the intelligence agencies call the shots, but of that more anon. Deconstruct the ‘agencies’ and you will be reduced to just two, the MI and the ISI.
Things have not gone well with AJK as far as jihad is concerned. The jihadis – often proxies encouraged by Pakistan – never liked the swing of the Muslim Conference mood away from jihad. Now the Taliban have emphasised that they too don’t favour a ‘non-aligned AJK’. It has been attacked by Lashkar-e-Zil of Al Qaeda headed by Ilyas Kashmiri from North Waziristan. The idea could be to soften AJK again and make it pliant to the presence terrorists plying across the LoC.

Azad Kashmir tasted its first reversion to terrorist jihad on 5 June 2009 when a suicide-bomber killed four soldiers and wounded many near an Army vehicle in Muzaffarabad. Since then, till 6 January 2010, four incidents of terrorism in AJK have accounted for the lives of 20 people, 10 of them security forces personnel and 10 civilians. The killers came from Lashkar-e-Zil being commanded by Ilyas Kashmiri and comprising some of the jihadi organisations used by Pakistan in the past to infiltrate into Indian Administered Jammu & Kashmir.

The components of Lashkar-e-Zil are: Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), the Azad Kashmir chapter of the Harkatul-Jihad al-Islami (HUJI) led by Commander Ilyas Kashmiri, and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) led by its jailed leader Akram Lahori, the Afghan Taliban militia led by its Amir Mullah Omar, the Hezb-e-Islami Afghanistan (HeI) led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, and the Haqqani militant network. The LeJ leader Akram Lahori has been found blameless by a terrorist court in Karachi and let off so he can return to jihad.

Kashmir could be on the boil soon again, {In last week's article too, Khaled Ahmed warned of great terrorist danger to India in the coming weeks} to teach India a lesson. The cross-border bombing by India, provoked by Pakistani infiltrators, had made Kashmiris’ lives hell, till it was stopped after Musharraf patched up with India and called off the Kashmir jihad. Life in AJK was transformed after the Indians stopped killing civilians from across the border. This could be about to change; and the AJK Assembly may simply be feeling the early jolts of another policy-change. And now the last message.

Coda: Writing in Jinnah (9 May 2010) Chief Editor Khushnood Ali Khan stated that Prime Minister Farooq Haider of Azad Kashmir, who was sitting on the jugular vein (Shah Rag) of Pakistan, had almost declared treason against Pakistan. He had actually declared a revolt against Pakistan’s national interest in this most strategic and sensitive region of the country. But Prime Minister Gilani was focusing on Sindh instead of Azad Kashmir.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by a_kumar »

X-posting from Intelligence Thread..
------
Craig Alpert wrote:Kashmir terrorists get pay hike
NEW DELHI: Kashmiri terrorists and refugees from Jammu and Kashmir in PoK have both received a pay hike. According to the latest inputs from various agencies, Pakistani authorities are now offering terrorists coming to fight in J&K a monthly salary in the range of Rs 8,000 to Rs 10,000. This is a huge jump from the average pay of Rs 5,000 they were getting earlier.

The reason for this benevolence is not hard to imagine. There has been a drastic drop in violence levels in J&K and militancy needs a desperate revival if the separatist agenda has to continue to grab global attention. The number of terrorists operating in J&K is now hovering around 700, an all-time low since militancy erupted in the state in the late 80s.

The desperation among terror groups is also visible in the return of Furqan, one of the seniormost Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives who had been the group's launch commander based in PoK for some years now. He infiltrated into J&K in April-end with a group but the Army was able to intercept them. Furqan is believed to have successfully evaded the Army and entered the state. His return, after more than four years, is being seen as a sign of LeT's desperation to carry out a few sensational attacks.

It is not just the Kashmiri militants who got pay hikes in recent days. Those staying back in refugee camps of PoK too have been given increased financial benefits. From Rs 1,800 per month, their financial allowance has gone up to Rs 2,400 a month early this year, sources said.

Thousands of Kashmiri youth have moved across the border to PoK in the past two decades for the explicit purpose of becoming trained militants. But many of them have stayed back in refugee maintenance camps run by the Pakistan government, some marrying local girls, and many starting small businesses. There are no clear numbers, but some estimates say as many as 30,000 could be in PoK, holding state subject facility cards which grants them certain rights.

While inflation is an obvious reason for the hike in monthly allowance for the refugees, the desire of many of them to return to India may have also been a reason for increasing the allowance, officials speculate. In 2007, when Indian government opened up a liberal surrender policy for Kashmir, almost 150 of them came back. After a year, the policy was tightened, but sources now say that they are looking at revising it. An exodus of these refugees from PoK to J&K would hit Pakistan's image, say officials.
----------

We keep thinking in the wrong direction.

If the last part is true.. that is, the formerly wannabe terrorists (and current supposed-refugees in PoK) would prefer coming to J&K on this side of the line, instead of staying in PoK.

Then, wouldn't it make sense to instead encourage them to stay in PoK and fight for liberation of PoK. Maybe after a certain period, they could be allowed back!!
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Neshant »

a_kumar wrote: Then, wouldn't it make sense to instead encourage them to stay in PoK and fight for liberation of PoK. Maybe after a certain period, they could be allowed back!!
I agree. No sense bringing them back where they could be a bigger nusiance. They should stay there.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Dmurphy »

a_kumar
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by a_kumar »

Atabad (or Atta Abad) landslide triggered lake
Image

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=104943
GILGIT-BALTISTAN: The deadline for the evacuation of residents of low-lying areas to safer places has been extended for one more day.

The water level at landslide-triggered lake in Atta Abad area of Hunza has risen to the level of 358 feet due to rain and falling of a glacier.

The people residing in the danger zone are being stressed upon to evacuate to safer places, as the lake has risen to a threatening level, owing to rapid meltdown of glacier during the last two days.

According to Director General NDMA and Interior Secretary Asif Bilal Lodhi, the water level falling into the lake has been increased from 2200 cusecs to 2500 cusecs daily whereas out flow has been reached to 100 cusecs from 84 cusecs. The number of relief camps established between Hunza and Gilgit has also been increased from 18 to 39 keeping in view the situation.

Deputy Commissioner Gilgit told Geo News that arrangements for water and power supply to 195 camps in district Gilgit have been completed and the government has extended the evacuation deadline till tomorrow.

The boat service for Hunza-Atta Abad lake was suspended, as the water has reached the spillway built by Frontier Works Organization (FWO), for safe outflow of water from the reservoir.

Suspension of the service will also disrupt the land communication between middle and upper Hunza.

According to the district administration, the lake is spread over 16 kilometer of land and the water level is rising at the rate of three feet per 24 hours.

Surging water of Atta Abad Lake has started to eat away its banks and evacuation of residents of the area has set in motion.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Avinash R »

From the link
A two-member team of Amnesty International (AI) landed in Srinagar for a first-ever visit on Monday, with the freedom to “go anywhere” and “meet anyone” to assess the human rights situation in Kashmir. The visit by the high-profile international human rights group has come after years of persuasion and lobbying with the Indian government.
So its back to square one, the govt forgets all the lessons learned in the past few years, fake human rights orgs are the hand maidens of terror orgs, now these jholawallas will meet with some "victims" of human rights violations by security forces. Then a fact finding report will be published and circulated among the international press, the front orgs of the terror groups will latch onto it and start peddling it among its cadres as the truth, "see even the human rights orgs are blaming the indians, join us and lets go kill some in kashmir and liberate it".

And the usual keedas in the media like SuAR will write articles blaming India for "oppressing" kashmiris and advocate giving them "freedom".

In a few months another batch of terrorists are ready to kill or get killed and the soon another team of amnesty lands up to check for human rights violations and the circle of death dealing and profiting from it continues.

Groups like amnesty get "donations" from terror groups, keedas like SuAR are paid by newspapers for their articles, a WIN-WIN situation and a lifetime of easy money for parasites.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pulikeshi »

^ Is this not a rehash from 2008? Did they redo the documentary?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by RoyG »

I believe its a new one.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by a_kumar »

Hunza lake villagers mob Pakistan PM's convoy
Pakistani villagers have blocked the prime minister's convoy, angry over the government's failure to compensate residents displaced by a landslide.

PM Yousuf Raza Gilani did not announce any new relief measures during a visit to the northern town of Aliabad.

After he left, the villagers blocked his ministers' convoy and hurled insults at the visiting dignitaries.

Thousands have been moved into camps amid fears that a lake formed after the landslide could burst its banks.

The lake was formed in January when a landslide blocked the River Hunza, and the waters have steadily risen since then.

Some 36 villages lie in a valley that could be flooded
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by sum »

^^ Interesting the Pakis have not yet started their latest round of begging citing the Hunza drowning...They are not the ones to let go of any chance to beg for $$
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by a_kumar »

^^^
For better results, must wait for the post-damage pictures to be splashed in the media first!
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by sudeepj »

About one and a half minute into the first clip, I heard 'Kashmir is majority muslim, governed by majority Hindu India, In 1989, a seccesionist movement started', Without as much as a comma in between the two statements. As if one led to the other and had to lead to the other in keeping some law of nature.

I quit the clips after that.

When we talk about the US, should we start saying that Rhode Island is majority Roman Catholic, governed by protestant USA?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Dipanker »

Pulikeshi wrote:^ Is this not a rehash from 2008? Did they redo the documentary?
It is the same old one, just getting fresh publicity.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by rkirankr »

kittoo
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by kittoo »

Varadrajan was there too, in the PM press conference. And guess what he asked about?
Army killing innocents in J&K and human rights being violated.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Gerard »

kittoo wrote:Varadrajan was there too, in the PM press conference. And guess what he asked about?
Army killing innocents in J&K and human rights being violated.
The US citizen Varadrajan should ask his own government about their own soldiers killing innocent Iraqis and Afghans.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by JE Menon »

But that would create a situation whereby he loses "access" pretty quickly no? How can he do that? Poor fellow. Its much easier for him to come to India, slip under the radar, and ask questions that will gain him some pats on the back when he next hits the bar with his Euro/American journo colleagues... Come on, man, have a heart.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by kittoo »

^^^I actually did not mind it much though. I was expecting some such drivel from him anyway and knew that he wasnt going to get any concrete answer. It was just the routine- 'We are committed to human rights etc'
Now that I think, I find it entirely stupid to even ask such questions, when everyone knows that the answer will be the same and the PM will forget it as soon as he has answered. Then again, as Menon sir said, Varadrajan will get some pats on the back from his gora masters.
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Post by Gerard »

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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Shopian doctors fudged autopsy report to defame security forces: J&K Government
The Jammu and Kashmir government has charged the team of doctors who carried out autopsies on two women in south Kashmir's Shopian town last May with fudging evidence to defame the police and the security forces.

"It had been found that the accused doctors fabricated and fudged the slides with an objective of defaming the police and security forces thereby violating Rule 3 of J&K Employees Act 1971," says a state government chargesheet against the doctors.

"The conduct and behaviour of the doctors had been prima facie found to have become cause of general strikes in the state and also resulted in the deaths of civilians," the chargesheet adds.

Two women, Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, were found dead by the side of a stream in Shopian town on May 29 last year, triggering a Valley-wide agitation with people alleging that the duo had been raped and subsequently murdered by the security forces.

The allegations had been triggered by the utterances of a lady doctor posted in Shopian town who carried out the autopsies of the dead women along with other local doctors.

After the case was handed over to the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), fresh autopsies were conducted and sustained interrogation of the local doctors revealed that scientific evidence about the deaths of the two women had been fudged to give credibility to the allegations that the women had been raped and then murdered.

The CBI investigations had confirmed that the two women had died due to drowning.

The state government based its chargesheet on the CBI findings.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Brad Goodman »

Kashmir survey finds no majority for independence
Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey found that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir.
In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95 percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.

But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by negi »

Credibility of the survey in question notwithstanding one cannot blame the average joe in the valley for harboring such sentiments, the bunch of thumb twiddlers and pseudo sekoolar nutcases which comprise the GOI over the years have ensured that baki plan of terrorizing people in valley has gone unchecked. Had we adopted a zero tolerance policy when first terror attacks took place, people in the valley as well as the International media would have had a different picture of the whole situation. The situation has worsened to a level where it is now pointless to even argue if J&K is an issue between the two countries for irrespective of what MMS and Co say on 15th August or 26 January , the aam abdul in streets of J&K has to live under the fear of TSP sponsored terror in such a situation why would residents of J&K would want to be a part of a nation which has failed to safeguard their interests ? The thumb twiddlers silently witnessed the exodus of Kashmiri pandits and now that the idiots claim the situation has improved they have not done anything for rehabilitation of the latter.

If we as a nation are not ready to bear the cost in terms of men or material to restore normalcy in the valley then why should we expect the Kashmiri to suffer for the animosity between Dilli and Islamabad ? If terroist attacks in the valley are not serious enough to be responded to in form of a military action or other suitable means , then how is it we propose to discourage TSP from continuing with its plan ? Why should the person on ground zero continue to keep up with this BS ?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by ramana »

I note the news report doesn't name the doctors who fudged the evidence and lied.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by wig »

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
Even as the Centre Government was fuming over the acquittal of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) chief Hafiz Mohammad Sayeed by Pakistan’s Supreme Court, the Union Ministry of Home Affairs has ordered release of 25 Pakistani nationals, most of whom were militants of LeT, Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) and Hizbul Mujahideen outfits and were involved in militancy in J&K before their arrest.

this news is probably indicative of something afoot. if 25 state sponsored non state actors are to be sent home after conducting their heinous acts it speaks volumes of the sense and sensiblity of chidambram the home minister and krisna the foreign mininster. maybe they should go along with these persons and stay back in pakistan,
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by RoyG »

^^o_O
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pranav »

Just 2% of people in J&K want to join Pak: Survey - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 982710.cms
Samay
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Samay »

wig wrote:http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
Even as the Centre Government was fuming over the acquittal of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) chief Hafiz Mohammad Sayeed by Pakistan’s Supreme Court, the Union Ministry of Home Affairs has ordered release of 25 Pakistani nationals, most of whom were militants of LeT, Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) and Hizbul Mujahideen outfits and were involved in militancy in J&K before their arrest.
What a glorious event for those who support terror . They would say to common abdul that the Indian govt could not hang them because they were freedom fighters .

While its a big achievement for these outfits , having PC in place they dont need to hijack a passenger aircraft and take to kufr dominated afghanistan . So easily their desire to free their leading men is fulfilled because dhimmis are holding ranks in GoI ...

These released terrorists will go and form new organizations ,an exercise on high demand in pakistan because there are stiff international regulations on old gangs.

It is rather amazing to see that since 2008 dhimmis are trying hard to revitalize terror in cashmere .

One or two things doesnt matter too much,but a series of such strategic blunders(sharm el sheikh,26/11-paralysis,aman ki asha, relaxations for pdp,hurriyat,etc) will surely start a damaging process, isnt it?
Nihat
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Nihat »

GoI and our courts are not stupid enough to just let dreaded militants go free . I'm certain they will be tracked or some of them may have turned sides.
abhishek_sharma
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

From MEA website

37th Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) Foreign Ministers Meeting held at Dushanbe


26/05/2010

We note with regret that the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers has once again chosen to comment upon Jammu and Kashmir and India’s internal affairs in the Resolutions adopted by the Organisation of Islamic Conferences Foreign Ministers at then 37th session held at Dushanbe during May 18-20, 2010. Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India and the OIC has no locus standi in matters concerning India’s internal affairs. We reject all such references/resolutions.

New Delhi
May 26, 2010
Pranay
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pranay »

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/world ... ?ref=world

The tug of home, that only the dis-possessed know...
Twenty years ago, nearly 400,000 Hindus fled the Kashmir Valley, fearful of a separatist insurgency by the area’s Muslim majority. Now they are trickling back, a sign to many here that the Kashmir Valley, after years of violence and turmoil, is settling in to an uneasy but hopeful peace.

The valley’s upper-caste Hindus, Pandits as they are known, are reconnecting with their ancestral home, a few to stay and even larger numbers to visit. More than a dozen shrines have reopened in recent years, said Sanjay Tickoo, a Kashmiri Pandit who never left the valley and is now trying to entice those who left to return.
M. L. Dhar, a 75-year-old Kashmiri Pandit who lives in a suburb of New Delhi, returned recently to Kashmir for the first time. He was astounded at the warm welcome he received from the valley’s Muslims.

“I have never been as peaceful as I have been here in the last seven days,” he said.

Mr. Dhar lived around the corner from the Vichar Nag shrine and was stunned to find it a wreck. For years troops from the Border Security Force camped out on the grounds of the shrine. They left several years ago, abandoning it to the elements. Today it is withered, all shattered windows and peeling paint garlanded with razor wire.
Would love to hear from any Kashmiris or others on BR with firsthand experiences...
Why the Pandits fled, and whether their departure was a hasty overreaction or a rational response to a mortal threat, is debated to this day. Dozens of Pandits were killed in 1989 and 1990, according to government records, and anti-Hindu rhetoric from separatist militants was on the rise.

Now, two decades later, both sides of the religious divide wonder whether they erred. Gulam Rasoul, a retired police officer who lives near the newly reopened temple, said both sides shared blame.

“They ran away, and we drove them out,” he said. “Now they regret it, and we also regret the loss.”
L. N. Dhar, a doctor who lives in New Delhi, left Kashmir with his extended family in 1990. He opened a clinic and settled into an upscale neighborhood in the city’s southern suburbs.

“These people had guns, they were free to shoot anyone, kill anybody,” Dr. Dhar said. “It was an atmosphere of terror. We had no option but to leave that place.”

Leaving Kashmir, he said, has turned out to be cultural suicide, he said. Scattered Pandits find it hard to keep their traditions and rituals alive. Their children barely speak Kashmiri, if at all.

“Once these links are gone out, identity is completely lost,” he said.

Despite the feeling that militancy is unlikely to return anytime soon, few Pandits have permanently returned. It was always an affluent and well-educated community, so many Pandits are well established elsewhere in India and beyond.

At the Vichar Nag shrine, as the harmonium wailed and the rising chorus of old Kashmiri songs filled the air, Muslim onlookers marveled at the return of their long-lost neighbors.

“I have not seen these people before, so I am curious,” said Nazim Amin Butt, a 22-year-old business school student. He watched with rapt attention as the chanting priest daubed saffron, red, pink and blue powder on the earthen fire pit, and placed heaps of flower petals at the head of the lingam, the phallic icon of Lord Shiva. It is not a problem that they come here,” Mr. Butt said. “They come from this place just like us. They belong here.”
jrjrao
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by jrjrao »

No, this news is not from the neighbouring Islamic Republic of Terroristan:

Mobs run wild over blasphemy rumour
http://risingkashmir.com/?option=com_co ... w&id=24039
Srinagar, June 05: At least nine people including five policemen were
injured after violent protests erupted in different areas of the city
over the rumours of blasphemous depiction of a “sacred mosque”
imprinted on an underwear. The structure on the garment later turned
out to be that of a historic cathedral of Italy.

The trouble started in Nowhatta market after some people spotted
brown-colored sketch of a building covered by a huge dome on an
underwear. Some people mistook the structure as that of Al-Aqsa
Mosque. Soon the residents in Nowhatta and adjoining localities of the
old city started gathering and protesting against the “blasphemous
underwear”.

Shouting “Islam Zindabad” and “We want Freedom,” the protesters
started rallying on the streets of old city. The protesters also
raised anti-Israel slogans.
sum
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by sum »

One more article on the weekly day out for the set of $#%^*** in the old city:

15 injured in Srinagar clashes
SRINAGAR: Fifteen persons were injured in clashes between the police and stone-throwing youths who were protesting against an alleged blasphemous depiction of the holy city of Madina on some products, which disrupted life in parts of this city and Baramulla in north Kashmir on Saturday.

The police fired warning shots and lobbed dozens of teargas shells to disperse groups of youths who indulged in stone-throwing at Maisuma, Kokerbazar and Lal Chowk, the nerve centre of the city, official sources said.

The protests, initially confined to the old city areas, spread to the civil lines and Baramulla as the day advanced, resulting in the clashes.

A police spokesman blamed “miscreants” for disturbing the situation. “The attempt to create tension in society is a deliberate move to disturb the situation by indulging in blasphemous rumours.”

The products were found carrying imprints and sketches of buildings that resembled Big Ben and St Paul's Cathedral of London, and other places. But no sketch had any likeness to any Muslim religious place or building, the spokesman said.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Trouble started in the Nowhatta area of the old city, as people came out on the streets as word spread about the alleged act of blasphemy. Protesters went round several areas in the city and forced shopkeepers to down the shutters.
These guys are truly a write-off...
Ameet
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Ameet »

Roots in Kashmir Tug Hindus Home

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/world ... shmir.html

Twenty years ago, nearly 400,000 Hindus fled the Kashmir Valley, fearful of a separatist insurgency by the area’s Muslim majority. Now they are trickling back, a sign to many here that the Kashmir Valley, after years of violence and turmoil, is settling in to an uneasy but hopeful peace.

The valley’s upper-caste Hindus, Pandits as they are known, are reconnecting with their ancestral home, a few to stay and even larger numbers to visit. More than a dozen shrines have reopened in recent years.

“The overwhelming majority of Kashmiris believe the place is really incomplete without its diversity,” said Omar Abdullah, the chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir. “It is an important milestone in our return to normalcy if they begin to come back.”

M. L. Dhar, a 75-year-old Kashmiri Pandit who lives in a suburb of New Delhi, returned recently to Kashmir for the first time. He was astounded at the warm welcome he received from the valley’s Muslims. “I have never been as peaceful as I have been here in the last seven days,” he said.

Now, two decades later, both sides of the religious divide wonder whether they erred. Gulam Rasoul, a retired police officer who lives near the newly reopened temple, said both sides shared blame. “They ran away, and we drove them out,” he said. “Now they regret it, and we also regret the loss.”

At the Vichar Nag shrine, as the harmonium wailed and the rising chorus of old Kashmiri songs filled the air, Muslim onlookers marveled at the return of their long-lost neighbors.

“I have not seen these people before, so I am curious,” said Nazim Amin Butt, a 22-year-old business school student. He watched with rapt attention as the chanting priest daubed saffron, red, pink and blue powder on the earthen fire pit, and placed heaps of flower petals at the head of the lingam, the phallic icon of Lord Shiva.

“It is not a problem that they come here,” Mr. Butt said. “They come from this place just like us. They belong here.”
Pranav
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pranav »

The best of times in Srinagar

C. Raja Mohan
....
If does choose to move forward, two sets of initiatives present themselves to the PM.

The first is in relation to altering the disposition of the security forces in Kashmir. There is growing restiveness in J&K about the widespread human rights violations and the persistent harassment of ordinary citizens by the security forces.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-b ... r/630224/0
Hmm ... CRM assumes too much ... why is he parroting what appears to be propaganda from suspect sources? It is not so simple ... what about this:
Villagers against withdrawal of army camp in Kashmir
PTI, Wednesday, March 24, 2010 21:28 IST

Srinagar: Notwithstanding separatists' demand for shifting of security camps and bunkers in Kashmir valley, a village in Kupwada district today lodged a protest against the proposed withdrawal of an army camp.

The people of Gadbad village located in Lolab valley blocked all roads leading away from the camp to prevent troops from moving, official sources said.

The villagers also petitioned senior officers including commander 8 Sector Rashtriya Rifles pleading for retaining the camp in the area.

"We do not want the army to shift its camp. They have protected us from militants and their excesses. We do not want the dark days to return. If required we will approach the highest authority in Delhi," 75-year-old Ghulam Ahmad Sheikh said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_vi ... ir_1362988
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