Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 May 2010 08:51

more like the big radars and airbase hangers and POL storage would be targeted. SAM TELs can move around every hour if needed.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 19 May 2010 09:01

ravi_B wrote:andy_b, you missed thiers HQ9. this is copy of S300. this is long range SAM TSP hold. I think, they hold some batteries of it. though there is no official confirmation.

Hain ji...this is new to me...I didnt know that TSP already has an operational HQ9 system...hmmm intersting...however given the normal range of Brahmos with evasive manouvers is 290k which is 90% of TSP width it should easily be able to overwhelm these sytems when push comes to shove...and like Singha saar said the control nodes, radars ityadi will be the jugulars that we will be after the launchers are like the body the control nodes, radars ityadi are the brain and nervous systems cut em off and...

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 19 May 2010 10:07

The Brahmos is quick. From target detection to destruction the entire sequence can be completed in ~1 hour.

You do not take your launchers down to the boundary line either. Chances are the Brahmos units would be deployed in air bases some 100-150kms from the border.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 19 May 2010 11:51

nukavarapu wrote:
andy B wrote:^^^
ze targeting imho would be an elint and signit task...ARC

also dont forget that the rambhas have lately been flying with yehudi podded sar radars ityadi...add to that I think it would also be backed by recon sats and also photographic evidence from the remote sensing sats ityadi...which will further be enhanced when GAGAN goes live...so look alive next few years lots of different sources of info to get targeting information...its quite obvious these babies will serve in the high mountains of the east...not to mention given that the most capable sams in puki inventory are spada 2000 as of now these batteries will obliterate them as and when needed...will get a tad bit difficult when faced with s300 and above but then that can be overwhelmed with sheer numbers....intersting....
somehow I am not convinced. SAMs are not sitting ducks and they can definitely move. A live satellite feed won't be very accurate to pin-point their precise location. If the Rambhas use their SARs to color the SAM, why not take them top with the anti-rad missiles they are carrying, instead of coloring them for Brahmos ??? Defeats the whole point of suppressing enemy defense before IAF can enter hostile territory ...

Aiyoo we should also take into account other tools that will be used to swat evil Sams such as Kryptons, KH 59s, Crystal Maze, possibly Martels - not sure if we still got em. Add to this the MRCA may possibly bring in some new Sead/Dead munitions as well...I do think we should take the Sead role for Brahmos as one of the roles its by far will not be the only role...we may have for e.g. a combined attack starting off with some Brahmos's screaming towards some sams and then followed by a flight of Rambhas ityadi following up in the confusion to swat as many radars as possible...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 May 2010 12:10

boss, you are getting confused about how the brahmos seeker works. it does not need constant painting of target, that's for SARH missiles. it just needs to be told where its target is before it starts flying, once it is airborne it may or may not get some course correction via in-flight datalink(not sure if this is used in the LACM version) and then goes on and hits the target.

mobility of SAM systems is a moot point in this case, for a flight time of less than 10 minutes, which would most likely anyway stay undetected for >75% of flight duration, the SAM systems can't go anywhere.

the target identification is by passive sensors which are much more sensitive and accurate than a much smaller seeker on an ARM (which are anyway slaved to on-board sensors, the siva HADF pod is used for the KH-31 ARM for example) and these will pass on the target info to the brahmos battery.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 19 May 2010 12:23

nukavarapu wrote:
andy B wrote:Aiyoo we should also take into account other tools that will be used to swat evil Sams such as Kryptons, KH 59s, Crystal Maze, possibly Martels - not sure if we still got em. Add to this the MRCA may possibly bring in some new Sead/Dead munitions as well...I do think we should take the Sead role for Brahmos as one of the roles its by far will not be the only role...we may have for e.g. a combined attack starting off with some Brahmos's screaming towards some sams and then followed by a flight of Rambhas ityadi following up in the confusion to swat as many radars as possible...
Andy Gaaru ... that still does not convince the role of brahmos for SEAD and make enemy territory less hostile for our bombers to enter.

Note: My argument/discussion is wrt the article that I posted earlier.

I agree with the above in regards to the statement that it doesnt mean the airspace is completely sanitised just by using Brahmos's against evil sams.

However my view after reading the article of the general utility of Brahmos from the air force sead mission perspective was that given that the IAF is getting Brahmos's SS version means that it adds another deadly arrow to their SEAD bow...thus even though the airspace wont be safe just by using Brahmos's on their own...combined with the other tools of trade of IAF it will make the Sead mission of the IAF more effective.

Targeting co-ordinates IMVHO is signit, elint, recce mission and these will be given to the IAF Brahmos guys by the relevant entities. Yes Sams can move agreed however let us not forget that moving at two times the speed of sound the window of opportunity will be small and in case they cannot target the sams they can always go after other juicy command nodes, ammo dumps, etc which means other IAF tools will be able to make a more concrete effort towards the SEAD mission as they wont have to divert to attack the other targets...JMT

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 May 2010 13:10

think away from TSP and more into the flood of S300 and S300 "clones" the PLA will push fwd into Tibet.

ravi_B · Post by **ravi_B** » 19 May 2010 21:44

Generation 2.0: Akash Mk-2

Wow!! I think time has come to sale the MK1 to our friendly countries......

http://idrw.org/?p=1716

Development work for Akash Mk-2 variant has begun, since recently Ministry of Defence officially granted funds and permission for its further development. Lately Akash Mk-1 has successfully demonstrated its ability in recently held user trials and Air force and Indian army has placed orders for procurement of Akash Sam Batteries.

Work on improvement of Akash SAM has been underway for a decade now and newer technology has been developed and DRDO is confident to field and test new Akash Mk-2 within 3 year period, major changes that Akash MK-2 will have is the range of missile, Army and Air force wants Akash MK-2 to have range of 40 to 60 km from its current range (Akash MK-1) of just 25 km. for that DRDO has been working on using better composite booster with lengthened booster section to achieve the desired range .According to sources DRDO will not have much difficulty in extended range of the Missile system but DRDO will have other set of problems in support systems.

Akash MK-1 is guided by phased array fire control radar called Rajendra BSR (Battery Surveillance Radar) which is PESA radar, while Akash Mk-2 will have a Rajendra derivative AESA radar to perform the same role, AESA radar will give it better tracking, and engagement functions. Work on AESA variant has begun and almost nearing completion, DRDO is also working on an AESA variant of Rajendra to be used as Weapons locating Radar (WLR); recently developed Rajendra WLR is based on PESA technology.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 20 May 2010 00:54

nukavarapu: Brahmos Block 1 has an active radar seeker. As regards Block 2, there was quite a bit of debate on BRF on whether it has an improved/additional seeker (or) an upgraded software pack (SCAN) for better target discrimination. What amazed most people (including the Russians) was the ability of Block 2 to discriminate a target amongst clutter. This is pretty difficult if you think about it - in the ocean, the radar bounce-backs from a ship will stand out in clear contrast. Not so in a cluttered landscape.

As RahulM states, the target coordinates are pre-fed before launching. In terminal guidance, the radar seeker takes over. Fundamentally, this is different from HARM missiles, which are dependent on passive detectors (like SIVA) of radar signals from SAM sites.

I'd think that one way to confuse the Brahmos seeker would be to have a "highly radiant" reflector near (but not very near) a SAM site.

naird · Post by **naird** » 20 May 2010 01:36

I was in one of the discussions on those unspeakable forums where the people involved were discussin how a AWACS can guide a BVR missile to the target fighter plane. I was under the impression that this is not possible or atleast the technology is yet to be mature for this to happen. However a retired USAF person explained the concept and indicated that this is very much operational.
Excerpts of the conversation --

*******
Here is the initial understanding of how radar guidance works for air-air missiles...

There are two distinct units inside a radar set: transmitter and receiver. Each can be physically distinct as well instead of cohabitation inside a single container, or line-replaceable-unit (LRU). For sem-active guidance, the missile is the receiver part of radar detection. The parent aircraft is the transmitter part.

For active guidance, the missile is fed initial general target information: direction and distance. The missile will prepare its own complete radar system to search for a target in that sector. Keep in mind that a missile's nosecone is space limited so the missile's radar antenna does not have a lot of room, or physical scan limit, to perform its search.

Plus...Target information is highly dependent upon antenna physical dimension. The larger the antenna, the tighter its beam and the better the target resolution. On the other hand, to compensate for small antennas, higher freqs can be used to produce pencil beams but at the expense of maximum effective detection range. This means even for active radar guided missiles, air-air or ground-air, it is best for a larger radar system to provide the missile with target information for as long as possible. Even for 'fire-and-forget' type. The joke is that you can forget about the missile hitting the target if you do not provide target information for up to %30 of the missile's flight time. Of course, the closer you are to the target, the less need of you, the parent aircraft, to provide that illumination.

So the next logical evolution of active radar guided missiles is on how to provide that EXTERNAL guidance until the missile's own radar is capable of taking over within that 'no escape' zone for the target. That external guidance could be the parent aircraft or an AWACS. The form of guidance could be radar, as in target illumination, or the AWACS tracks both target and missile and sends course correction information to the missile. The AWACS does not -- does not -- have control of the missile. The AWACS simply performs the standard triangulation calculations between itself, the missile and the target and if there are any heading deviation between missile and target, the AWACS will sort of 'advise' the missile to alter its course. The missile, being robotic, will of course obey. All the while still searching for the target with its own radar.

A more sophisticated missile will have its radar off until its distance to target is less than %50 from the original calculation. The AWACS will provide that distance figure. Then when it turn its own radar to illuminate the target, it will have the target within that 'no escape' zone. That is why today pilots can no longer ignore AWACS transmissions whereas in the past they can go on with their mission. Even more sophisticated missiles will be able to accept 'hand-off' signals, meaning it is 'advised' to accept guidance information from another airborne platform such as another fighter or another AWACS from a different direction or even ground controllers. More sophisticated missiles will be able to tell everyone in the vicinity that it is tracking the target based upon their distinct radar illuminations of the target, thereby requiring no guidance at all. The more the target is illuminated from different directions, the sooner the target will be in that 'no escape' zone.

This is not science fiction. The problem have always been miniaturization of the radar components. So the smaller the components, the greater the capabilities and performance levels of those capabilities. The move from semi-active to active guidance testified to that fact.

********************

Consider this in a paki/India scenario , these would scrap away all the advantages that BARS radar has over bundar thunder..... Members any thoughts ? Gurus any insights ? Is this really possible or are we looking at pure BS.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 May 2010 01:47

just FYI, Indian Navy SHars have already demo'ed this capability using derby missiles.

naird · Post by **naird** » 20 May 2010 02:04

Rahul M wrote:just FYI, Indian Navy SHars have already demo'ed this capability using derby missiles.

Rahul..Do you mean Derby missile actually aligned themselves to target without any guidnace from Mother Craft? Did AWACS guide them or was it another fighter aircraft who did that ? Also phalcon awacs was inducted recently , did SHars use phalcon for guidance ? Did MKI do this with R77 ?

Can you kindly point me to the correct link so that i can read up on this capability ?

naird · Post by **naird** » 20 May 2010 11:40

naird wrote:EDITED

Can someone clarify this ? Is this really possible ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 May 2010 19:21

naird wrote:
So the next logical evolution of active radar guided missiles is on how to provide that EXTERNAL guidance until the missile's own radar is capable of taking over

Nothing new here. The concept has been there from the 1950s . It is called "Command guidance"

A variant (also from the 1950s) is "semi active radar guidance" where the radar is from an external source but the missile seeker receives those external signals.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 22 May 2010 20:23

X-post

IAF Sukhoi Fleet to be Equipped with Homemade Nirbhay Missiles

India’s ‘Nirbhay’ cruise missile is slated to be incorporated in the Suhkoi Su-30MKI Flanker strike aircraft, increasing the nuclear weapon capability of the Indian Air Force (IAF) beyond that of free-fall weapons only. The ‘Nirbhay’ will be the third indigenous weapon to equip the Su-30MKI besides the ‘Brahmos’ supersonic cruise missile and the ‘Astra’ medium-range air-to-air missile. The induction of the ‘Nirbhay’ cruise missile to the Suu-MKI Flanker aircraft will give the decisive edge the IAF needs in terms of long-range and strategic strike capability.

According to sources, the range of the ‘Nirbhay’ cruise missile is roughly 800 to 1,000 kilometres. Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory, part of state-owned Defence Research and Development Organization’s (DRDO) is currently pursuing the ‘Nirbhay’ project. Sources added that a design model of the ‘Nirbhay’ is expected to be unveiled at Aero-India 2011.

Sources also added that the approximate size of the ‘Nirbhay’ cruise missile is about 19 feet, which implies that only a couple of these missiles can be accommodated in the Su-MKI aircraft. It has been suggested that the aircraft could carry one weapon on a pylon in the tunnel between the two engine bays, similar to the measure taken for the ‘Brahmos’ missile. Two ‘Nirbhay’ missiles can be accommodated if one could fit under each of the inboard wing-station.

The details of the ‘Nirbhay’ cruise missile have been kept under wraps by India. The subsonic Nirbhay weighs 1,000 kg with a 1,000 km range and a speed of 0.7 mach. The requirement for ‘Nirbhay’ was anticipated by India’s three armed forces. The ‘Nirbhay’ is to have multiple platforms and can be launched from ground, sea and air.

It has been disclosed that the overall design and aerodynamic study work and the design of the propulsion system has been finished. DRDO’s Pune-based Research and Development Establishment (Engineering) is developing the transporter erector launch vehicle for the ground-launched version of the ‘Nirbhay’ missile.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 May 2010 03:18

What an idiot title for the above news report. Makes it look like ghar ka jugad vs imported maal.

kuldipchager · Post by **kuldipchager** » 23 May 2010 05:18

What an idiot title for the above news report. Makes it look like ghar ka jugad vs imported maal.

Some People Never say good about there own motherland.I does't matter where the parts comefrom,as long it says made in india.And it do the good job.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 23 May 2010 14:32

ramana wrote:What an idiot title for the above news report. Makes it look like ghar ka jugad vs imported maal.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 23 May 2010 15:21

Makes it look like ghar ka jugad vs imported maal.

What does the Romanized Hindi mean ?

How badly will the aircraft's airframe loose its service life with it being modified for such tasks as carrying the Bramhos and now this new ALCM ? Why can't they just get the Su-34 for these heavy "bombing" missions ?? It can't be much more costly or all that different in terms of spares as compared to the Su-30mki.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 May 2010 00:00

ghar ka jugad is home made contraption
My comment is that the headline - implies some makeshift stuff on an imported a/c.
A cruise missile is combination of engine technology, aeronautics, controls and weapon combined with strategy.
Not home made.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 May 2010 00:18

I don't know whether these videos of NA ATGM have been seen and discussed before. X-Posting from Armor Thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rWJPi7K1Fc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glhSHXjo ... re=related

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 May 2010 15:53

ICBM to be a reality by next year: Saraswat

“Work is progressing satisfactorily in the development of Agni-5, which is expected to become a reality next year. With this, DRDO would have given India a comprehensive indigenous strategic capability, available with only a few nations of the world,” DRDO chief V.K. Saraswat said at the National Technology Day awards function.

Agni-5 will be the first canistered ballistic missile with range of over 5,000 km into Indian inventory, bringing possible military targets in the whole of China and Pakistan within striking range. The missile is likely to be tested early next year.

Missiles which are capable of being launched from canisters can be fired from multiple platforms and are easily transportable.

Commenting on the Indian missile programme, Mr. Saraswat said, “the success of Agni-3 and other tests have confirmed India’s strategic deterrence capability, which could not have been possible without the preceding developmental efforts in these programmes.”

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 26 May 2010 18:35

BrahMos Chief gets Technology Leadership Award

Distinguished scientist Dr. A Sivathanu Pillai, CEO and Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace, has been conferred with the Technology Leadership Award 2009 for his outstanding leadership in design, development, production and marketing of BRAHMOS supersonic cruise missile.

Dr. Pillai, also, as Chairman of BrahMos Aerospace Thiruvananthapuram Ltd (BATL), erstwhile KELTEC, has contributed immensely in efficiently managing and pulling KELTEC out of financial constraints and turning it into a profit earning industry within a span of two years.

Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh presented Dr. Pillai with the prestigious award on the National Technology Day in New Delhi on Wednesday. The Prime Minister in his speech referring to BrahMos highlighted that new capabilities have recently been acquired for the BRAHMOS supersonic cruise missile.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 26 May 2010 19:17

SSridhar wrote:ICBM to be a reality by next year: Saraswat
“Work is progressing satisfactorily in the development of Agni-5, which is expected to become a reality next year. With this, DRDO would have given India a comprehensive indigenous strategic capability, available with only a few nations of the world,” DRDO chief V.K. Saraswat said at the National Technology Day awards function.

Agni-5 will be the first canistered ballistic missile with range of over 5,000 km into Indian inventory, bringing possible military targets in the whole of China and Pakistan within striking range. The missile is likely to be tested early next year.

Missiles which are capable of being launched from canisters can be fired from multiple platforms and are easily transportable.

Commenting on the Indian missile programme, Mr. Saraswat said, “the success of Agni-3 and other tests have confirmed India’s strategic deterrence capability, which could not have been possible without the preceding developmental efforts in these programmes.”

I was under the impression that head of a scientific institute like DRDO (Mr. Saraswat) will have less reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology on personal and professional fate!! look at the number of gems rings he is wearing...!!

username changed to prithvi.
Rahul.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 May 2010 19:20

^^^

+ a (pancha lohha?) kadda + string of corals.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 May 2010 20:06

prithvi wrote:I was under the impression that head of a scientific institute like DRDO (Mr. Saraswat) will have less reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology on personal and professional fate!! look at the number of gems rings he is wearing...!!

how do you know it is not his mother/wife who got those for him ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 May 2010 20:23

prithvi wrote: I was under the impression that head of a scientific institute like DRDO (Mr. Saraswat) will have less reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology on personal and professional fate!! look at the number of gems rings he is wearing...!!

If he wears gems how is that an indicator that he has reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology? I mean I recall looking at girls in college and imagining that they wanted to ravish me in the same telepathic manner that you have reached conclusions about Dr.Saraswat's mind.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 26 May 2010 20:38

shiv wrote:
prithvi wrote: I was under the impression that head of a scientific institute like DRDO (Mr. Saraswat) will have less reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology on personal and professional fate!! look at the number of gems rings he is wearing...!!
If he wears gems how is that an indicator that he has reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology? I mean I recall looking at girls in college and imagining that they wanted to ravish me in the same telepathic manner that you have reached conclusions about Dr.Saraswat's mind.

He hasnt supported the use of Gems in any convocation address, neither has he taken your money to buy those gems, neither has he said they help him deliver, if that is so why bother about those gems. Kindly desist from talking about personal attributes unless it has any significance w.r.t the subject at hand.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 May 2010 20:39

SSridhar wrote:ICBM to be a reality by next year: Saraswat
“Work is progressing satisfactorily in the development of Agni-5, which is expected to become a reality next year. With this, DRDO would have given India a comprehensive indigenous strategic capability, available with only a few nations of the world,” DRDO chief V.K. Saraswat said at the National Technology Day awards function.

Agni-5 will be the first canistered ballistic missile with range of over 5,000 km into Indian inventory, bringing possible military targets in the whole of China and Pakistan within striking range. The missile is likely to be tested early next year.

Missiles which are capable of being launched from canisters can be fired from multiple platforms and are easily transportable.

Commenting on the Indian missile programme, Mr. Saraswat said, “the success of Agni-3 and other tests have confirmed India’s strategic deterrence capability, which could not have been possible without the preceding developmental efforts in these programmes.”

Where is JCage sir? Few years back he argued with me that India has no ICBM program.

Hoping him to take this bait and reappear

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 26 May 2010 21:15

If he wears gems how is that an indicator that he has reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology? I mean I recall looking at girls in college and imagining that they wanted to ravish me in the same telepathic manner that you have reached conclusions about Dr.Saraswat's mind.[/quote]

He hasnt supported the use of Gems in any convocation address, neither has he taken your money to buy those gems, neither has he said they help him deliver, if that is so why bother about those gems. Kindly desist from talking about personal attributes unless it has any significance w.r.t the subject at hand.[/quote]

guys.. first of all i had no intension cast any aspersions on the professional capabilities of Mr. Saraswat... I mean till date I used to be only a reader of Bharat-Rakshak and Livefist ... never posted a message as I found the discussion is broad and open that I am not qualified to add anything more valuable to the thread.. and my wife still wonders why do I spend such a long time on sites like BRF and livefist or airliners.net....never mind... but I was very much amazed to see a top rank scientist wearing astrology gems etc. since he visits many univ. and delivers convocation and seminar lectures and people do get inspired by him...but as many pointed out already this might be due to the insistence of domestic players (wife, in laws etc.) so I don't care... as long he delivers the ICBM punch next year as promised... in fact many IN ships go through regular puja ceremonies before their launch ...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 May 2010 21:23

well you are not the first person who had an initiation by fire on BR, so don't bother too much about it.

my last comments on this OT issue, you might be surprised to see what % of scientists are forced to wear such objects on insistence of near ones.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 May 2010 21:23

if A5 works for a couple of shots, I think A3 will not enter mass production and instead A5 will be put into production as the cornerstone of long range deterrence, gradually the A2 will also be retired leaving the A1 as short range weapon and A5 for everything else.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 26 May 2010 21:42

Singha wrote:if A5 works for a couple of shots, I think A3 will not enter mass production and instead A5 will be put into production as the cornerstone of long range deterrence, gradually the A2 will also be retired leaving the A1 as short range weapon and A5 for everything else.

What about cost factor??

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 May 2010 21:49

abhijitm wrote:
Where is JCage sir? Few years back he argued with me that India has no ICBM program.

Hoping him to take this bait and reappear

1) That was a few years ago and he was right.
2) He has attained Moksha - being a one-way trip, no return from there for sure.

vic · Post by **vic** » 26 May 2010 21:53

MoD Report 2009-10 refers to :

BDL is ......also
developing RF controlled
Anti Tank Guided Missile
(ATGM)

Does it mean that a new ATGM is in offing?? Something like AT-6 or radio controlled ToW missile?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 26 May 2010 22:00

NRao wrote: He has attained Moksha - being a one-way trip, no return from there for sure.

But, but saar - Avataric missions can always continue; you have to only look at the right places.

CM.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 May 2010 22:17

>> What about cost factor??

we dont have enough money to deploy say 500 ICBMs. 50 will have to do. in that case makes sense to deploy the better and more survivable weapon.

A5, shourya to deal with PRC
shourya and A1 to deal with Pak

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 May 2010 22:39

NRao wrote:
abhijitm wrote:
Where is JCage sir? Few years back he argued with me that India has no ICBM program.

Hoping him to take this bait and reappear
1) That was a few years ago and he was right.

and I was right too!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 27 May 2010 00:09

If you define an ICBM as >8000 km, India has no ICBM

atma · Post by **atma** » 27 May 2010 00:40

shiv wrote:
prithvi wrote: I was under the impression that head of a scientific institute like DRDO (Mr. Saraswat) will have less reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology on personal and professional fate!! look at the number of gems rings he is wearing...!!
If he wears gems how is that an indicator that he has reliance on the intervention of gems and astrology? I mean I recall looking at girls in college and imagining that they wanted to ravish me in the same telepathic manner that you have reached conclusions about Dr.Saraswat's mind.

I don't about his mind, but looking at the photograph, made me think he is a well groomed, good looking, erudite gentleman, used to gesticulating to make a point. Then I did notice the rings and the bracelet, reminding myself that is nothing unusual. Then asked my 35 year old Amriki nurse (you can tell I am not having a busy day) what she thought about the photograph. I was stunned by her quick response. "A politician or mobster" She was unfazed, unflinching, precisely because of the adornments, when I disclosed who Dr Saraswat is. Point is, grooming and adornments convey different things to different people. To my nurse, reminding her of a recently disgraced corrupt Chicago politician, given to flamboyance, to me nothing unusual, to Prithvi someone given to gems and astrology. Big deal. Welcome to the forum, Prithvi!