Indian Roads Thread

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 21 Apr 2010 12:52

The Socialist Republic does it again!!

Already trailing, Kerala halts NH land acquisition
Shaju Philip Posted online: Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 2356 hrs
Thiruvananthapuram : Faced with stiff opposition towards highway widening and BOT-based road development, an all-party meeting on Tuesday decided to temporarily discontinue land acquisition for the four-laning of the national highway in Kerala.

The meeting, chaired by Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan, pleaded with the Centre that four-laning of NH in Kerala should be done at a width of 30 metres. This is contrary to the National Highway Authority of India’s (NHAI) stand highways have to be at least with 45 metres wide. NHAI chairman Brijeshwar Singh also attended.

Achuthanandan later said his government would request the Centre to drop the road development under the BOT scheme. This is a major deviation from the Left government’s policy to seek private participation for infrastructure projects. If the state sticks on its demand, Kerala stands to loose road development of Rs 10,000 crore.

While all other states have gone miles ahead in highway development, Kerala has lagged behind due to the retrogressive stand of the successive governments towards land acquisition and private participation. Lakhs of houses and business establishments would have to be pulled down for the road widening.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/609034/

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 21 Apr 2010 20:57

Dileep wrote:The Socialist Republic does it again!!

Okay I can understand that part of land acquisition because nobody wants to lose their land, and move away to some where else. But what is this negativity to private partnership? The commies still cannot tolerate a businessman of any shape or size. Every thing still needs to happen in the socialistic way of things. Start some state level PSU, employ hundreds (like KSEB and KSRTC) and then sit twiddling their thumbs and do nothing. Then start whining that Central Govt. is not helping them out.

And this is when the govt. is trying start green field airports in all parts of the state. The latest one planned for Kannur. Commies want air ports in every Panchayath, but road widening/building good roads is strictly against communist principles.

Kerala stands to loose road development of Rs 10,000 crore.

The central govt. issuing this fund needs to go on a propoganda overdrive that Kerala lost this money because of gross incomptence of the state govt (read. the commies). Infact I feel that the central govt. should only allot funds to Kerala after getting a clear undertaking from the state government that they plan to use it as per the overall national agenda.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 22 Apr 2010 10:17

Sachin, we are like the brat who throws away the food and then complains that he isn't fed.

The policy of the commies are clear. Anything that doesn't benefit them is bad. The only thing they would agree for is a co-operative venture that they can control politically. They would also agree for direct govt control. Anything other than that is taboo. The airports come under co-operative venture.

There is also a lot of public objection to toll roads. I too share some of those sensitivities, and believe that we need to adopt a different policy in Kerala. But I believe that what the 'all party consensus' did is a poison pill. It is not a solution. It is a killer.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 22 Apr 2010 11:01

Roads and highways are a particular focus of attention and the government's high-profile minister Kamal Nath has set himself a tough target of 20km of roads a day from June, meaning 7,000km a year and 20,000km of work in progress.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8635419.stm

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Apr 2010 18:26

Dileep wrote:There is also a lot of public objection to toll roads. I too share some of those sensitivities, and believe that we need to adopt a different policy in Kerala.

Why is it that the same Communists in West Bengal are willing to implement toll roads ? I can understand issues of land acquisition, especially in Kerala, but the unpleasant task has to be done through some sweetening. I know that in Chennai, the Government has adopted two things. One is that market price is being given to lands so acquired and the second is that in Chennai city, those who give up land are allowed to build buildings with a higher FSI in another plot of their choice. If Kerala does not adopt some such innovative idea, its road development is going to suffer. For a state dependent on tourism, road infrastructure is very critical.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Apr 2010 19:12

It is not just about land acquisitions in Kerala. I have personally seen land north of Cochin all the way up to the Periyar river acquired and cleared for a more straighter alignment for NH-17 in the last 10 years. Yet no work has started on this sector alone, a stretch of about 20+ km. Across the river homes were acquired and people have moved out and yet no signs of activity.

I have given up any hopes of seeing a wider stretch of NH-17 happening in the next 20 years. I might as well buy a boat and use the national waterway system for a safer and faster transit for any N-S travels in the near future.

manish · Post by **manish** » 25 Apr 2010 21:16

Bade wrote:It is not just about land acquisitions in Kerala. I have personally seen land north of Cochin all the way up to the Periyar river acquired and cleared for a more straighter alignment for NH-17 in the last 10 years. Yet no work has started on this sector alone, a stretch of about 20+ km. Across the river homes were acquired and people have moved out and yet no signs of activity. I have given up any hopes of seeing a wider stretch of NH-17 happening in the next 20 years. I might as well buy a boat and use the national waterway system for a safer and faster transit for any N-S travels in the near future.

Ouch, saw this post seconds after I made a post about NH-17 in the Autos thread. That highway needs so many bye-passes so badly that it may be cheaper and worthwhile to build a new greenfield NH to skirt all the major towns between Kasargod-Ernakulam!

One thing that struck me about the stretch of NH17 in Kerala was the relative lack of clearance by the sides of the NH in the stretch south of Kasaragode/Kanhangad - the same NH seems to have 20-30 ft of open space on both sides in the stretch north of Kasaragode, even through cities like Mangalore and right upto Goa. But in Kerala, you have shop doors opening right on to the highway in towns like Thalassery, Kannur, Edappal etc. The curse of rapid urbanization and development perhaps?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Apr 2010 21:40

I can speak for the stretch just north of Cochin since I have traveled those roads even as 10-yr old. The shops were right on the road. In fact NH-17 ended at the river Periyar, as there was no bridge across till '84-85. There used to be a ferry that would take you across and your vehicle (4 cars at a max in one go). So you can see what the average speeds were between point to point in that section in the old days.

I used the term 'expressways' sarcastically

. These days the people who drive on NH-17 drive like it is an expressway when it is clearly not. I just want a big tank to hide behind from the oncoming traffic.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 26 Apr 2010 10:19

Bade, the problem with the NH-17 section between Edapally-Paravur is that the ROW acquired after so much of red tape is 30 metres, but the NHAI wants 45 metres. People who gave land for the ROW don't want to loose the now-precious land again. Simple onlee. The 45 metre itself is a concession made for Kerala. NHAI takes 60 metres in rest of the states.

One part of that stretch of NH-17 close to Edapally is being rebuilt now. I drove on the new surface yesterday when we came back from Guruvayoor. I guess there they have the required 45 metres.

Sridhar, the toll issue is not communist related. The vast majority of the population oppose toll. That is because the NHs have townships every 1-2 kilometres, and dwellings all the way on either side. It is unique in Kerala. Take a look at Google maps to see how it looks. All those people take the highway for granted, so you can't simply make it into a toll road.

The only option is to provide 'local roads' on either side of the tolled carriageway. The 45 metre requirement is allegedly for that.

An all party consensus is recently made objecting to the 45 metre requirement. The result will be NHAI will happily stop all road development in the state.

IMHO, the way out is a greenfield highway. But for that certain Geriatrices, including the current CM, cultural gollums like Sukumar Azhikode etc should drop dead!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Apr 2010 21:33

Dileep, maybe you are right about the width of the acquired land strip for NH-17. The Google images I re-checked gives roughly ~ 50m for its width.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Apr 2010 22:46

MKI-izing NH47 and NH17 are non-starters. You could almost spit the toothpaste out of the window in some places and hit the highway. The onlee option for a proper modern highway is the Kerala expressway. Here's my first attempt at a reverse jinx - the Kerala expressway won't get built

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Apr 2010 23:41

The alignment of the Kerala expressway was way far off inland from the major population centers near the coast. It was probably one of the reasons for the lack of support on the ground in addition to various environmental interpretations by the intellectual class. I have heard people say that who is going to drive 40 km to Chalakudy to get on the expressway from Kodungallur. The same argument holds for most towns on the coast. It was seen as a TVM-Kasargod road not for local public use.

A real coastal greenfield highway even if on stilts, would have been both a tourist attraction and sell-able in the public eye to its immediate benefits.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 27 Apr 2010 02:29

India long way off from 20-km per day road target

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busine ... 53724.html

India is likely to build only 12-13 kilometres of road a day in the current fiscal year to end-March 2011 against a 20 km per day target, Transport Minister Kamal Nath said on Monday.

India had last year set a target of building 20 km (12 miles) of roads each day, as part of its plans to improve infrastructure in Asia's third-largest economy, but achieved only less than half of that due to problems in acquiring land and awarding contracts.

Foreign investors have shied away from the sector even though the government has allowed 100% foreign direct investment, due to problems in land acquisition and difficulties in collection of toll tax.

"This financial year (2010/11), we should be close to building 3,000 km," Nath said.

But, achieving that target will need an investment of about Rs 2 trillion (USD 45 billion) annually, of which the government expects 60% to come from the private sector, he said.

Analysts estimate poor infrastructure shaves an estimated 1 or 2 percentage points off India's annual economic growth, which slowed to 6.7% in 2008/09 after three years of 9% or more growth.

manju · Post by **manju** » 27 Apr 2010 03:55

Singha wrote:the long 10km electronic city flyover in BLR, which is otherwise quite well made has no breakdown lane for disabled vehicles to park or emergency services to
send vehicles like ambulances. in the middle wall there is only a few gaps for
emergency vehicles to take u-turn. on and off ramps are are both ends onlee.

the first disaster up there will be an eye-opener.

On the way back from Tanjavooru I saw one unlucky fellow towing his TVS moped.. I could not imagine if he will be alive after towing it for 5-8 kms. If your vehicle breaks down in the middle.. either way is at least 5 kms.. They must have some emergency exits..!!

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 27 Apr 2010 07:10

This is India.

If you make a service lane, people will make that into a regular lane. If you make an emergency lane, people will make that into a regular lane. If you make an emergency exit, people will make that a regular exit.

You can't win!

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 28 Apr 2010 03:37

manju wrote:
Singha wrote:the long 10km electronic city flyover in BLR, which is otherwise quite well made has no breakdown lane for disabled vehicles to park or emergency services to
send vehicles like ambulances. in the middle wall there is only a few gaps for
emergency vehicles to take u-turn. on and off ramps are are both ends onlee.

the first disaster up there will be an eye-opener.
On the way back from Tanjavooru I saw one unlucky fellow towing his TVS moped.. I could not imagine if he will be alive after towing it for 5-8 kms. If your vehicle breaks down in the middle.. either way is at least 5 kms.. They must have some emergency exits..!!

Hopefully he will keep the bike in better condition next time.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 28 Apr 2010 10:01

Dileep wrote:If you make a service lane, people will make that into a regular lane. If you make an emergency lane, people will make that into a regular lane. If you make an emergency exit, people will make that a regular exit.

^^^^ +1. Unless the whole country is sensitised on "Road Discipline" no form or development can effectively brought across India's roads. Building over bridges, wider roads (with and without service lines) will not bring any tangible benefit on the ground. And also as part of the "sensitisation" the stupid socialist concept of "I am poor, so I can flout any rule" also needs to get changed. Perhaps things are changing, and we should see some better road sense in 15-20 years.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 28 Apr 2010 10:10

Add 'I will flout them because everyone else is" to that list of reasons Sachin. Hopefully things should get better.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 07 May 2010 15:18

If you make a service lane, people will make that into a regular lane. If you make an emergency lane, people will make that into a regular lane. If you make an emergency exit, people will make that a regular exit.

Could frame that as a quote

But one thing i notice. Percentage of roads in cities and towns in India is very small. Land in Delhi and you'll notice a lot of greenery, confirmed by googling. Look at small towns elsewhere in China, Australia, US, and so many roads servicing different areas. Gurgaon- Delhi only 2 major roads whereas there should be at least half a dozen expressways connecting both. Root cause of problem: underestimation of traffic density, inability to acquire land for more roads or worse: plan for more routes. Airports in Delhi: 1. A much smaller city like Houston is serviced by 5 or 6 Airports. Planners in India must learn to think more basic but bigger.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 07 May 2010 15:56

Biggest problem? Planning/designing based on the books/rules handed down by the British. That is why you see bridges that are 10m wide. It is going to take a lot of time.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 07 May 2010 16:42

Dileep wrote:Biggest problem? Planning/designing based on the books/rules handed down by the British. That is why you see bridges that are 10m wide. It is going to take a lot of time.

Honestly, I feel that the Brits put much more thoughts when planning some thing (be it for the then colony India, or for their own country UK). And their rule books were based on that. For what ever they did there was a sound reason (which suited then overall goals). What happened for us is that we blindly followed the rule books, and never reworked on them after we were given a chance

. Guess, in US this influence is not there because they started re-writing every thing as per their own logic and reason, and telling the British to leave the colony in a "not-so-very polite" way. We (as a country) now should focus more on studying this ourselves and come up with our own benchmarks and standards. Some of the express highways etc., guess are good learning experiences.

Ancedote: FWIW. It seems Indian Army officers have a certain maximum distance for which they can claim travel allowance, or travel on a military warrant. The distance decided by the British was considering the maximum distance between the Southern most and the northern most tip in UK . And we aped it blindly. As per rules it seems even today an Indian Army officer is eligible to take a horse in the box-car when transferred to another location. No, a motor cycle is not allowed, it has to be a horse

. These were told to me by an Army officer 4-5 years back, and it may have got changed now.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 07 May 2010 17:48

The british rules were fine for the pre WW2 nation. The problem is the books were never updated in the 60+years thereafter.

I still see speed limit 8km near schools. The other day I saw several 25km posted limits on some good stretches of NH-17. I wonder what is the use?

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 08 May 2010 09:05

Dileep wrote:Biggest problem? Planning/designing based on the books/rules handed down by the British. That is why you see bridges that are 10m wide. It is going to take a lot of time.

When I was in 1st year Engineering, our prof. (who was really in Civil Engg., but we had a common course in 1st year) was a fount of information. One interesting thing he mentioned was that every railway station in India has a board that indicates the station name and the altitude above sea-level, but the measure for mean sea level is Karachi! Seems that it is an artifact from the British Raj when they first published surveys of India and no one has bothered to change it ever since!

manish · Post by **manish** » 08 May 2010 09:41

Suraj wrote:MKI-izing NH47 and NH17 are non-starters. You could almost spit the toothpaste out of the window in some places and hit the highway. The onlee option for a proper modern highway is the Kerala expressway. Here's my first attempt at a reverse jinx - the Kerala expressway won't get built

Looks like they just got the go-ahead for 4-laning NH-17 between Kannur-Talapady.
CCI okays slew of highway upgradation projects in several states

The Cabinet Committee on Infrastructure (CCI) has approved a slew of national highway (NH) projects in various states across the country, including the four-laning of the Karnataka border-Kannur section in Kerala and the Nagpur-Betul stretch in Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh.

The decisions were taken at a meeting of the CCI here yesterday, an official press release said.

The four-laning of the 126.62 km Karnataka/Kerala border-Kannur section is expected to cost Rs 1563 crore. It is part of the National Highway Development Programme (NHDP) Phase III and will be executed on Build, Operate, Transfer (BOT) (toll) basis on the Design, Build, Finance, Operate and Transfer (DBFOT) pattern.

The project is expected to reduce the time and cost of travel for heavy traffic commuting from Kannur and other parts of North Kerala to Mangalore in Karnataka.

They could have gone the whole hog and done up the remaining 12-odd km to the outer edges of Mangalore city itself. Still better than the current sad state of affairs. Let the land acquisition drama begin in earnest now!

Also, some much needed improvements for NE

The meeting accorded final approval for the four-laning of the Jorabat-Barapani (Shillong) section of NH-40 from 0.00 Km to 61.8 Km. in Assam and Meghalaya at an estimated cost of Rs 762.30 crore. NH-40 is the main artery connecting Shillong, the capital of Meghalaya and the States of Mizoram and Tripura with Guwahati, the gateway to the North East.

And more investments into the BLR-CHN corridor

In Tamil Nadu, the CCI approved the six-laning of the 59.87 km long Hosur-Krishnagiri section of NH-7 at a total cost of Rs 535 crore.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 09 May 2010 12:35

Manish, hadn't you read the newsbit that all parties have jointly decided that the roads in SRK need to be only 30 metres wide.

manish · Post by **manish** » 11 May 2010 12:20

Dileep wrote:Manish, hadn't you read the newsbit that all parties have jointly decided that the roads in SRK need to be only 30 metres wide.

Oh yes Dileep saar, I have heard all about it - and unfortunately for people of Karnataka, so have the 'activists' in and around Mangalore who are using that as an excuse to curtail the ongoing land acquisition process here and limit the width to 45m or 30m!

In fact, the 'activists' who seem to have the solid backing of the Minister-in-Charge of the district (who himself is well-known real estate baron) have apparently succeeded in getting the nod from the State Government for their cause. Sigh...

Nanthur-Talapady stretch of NH 17 to be 45 m wide
Addressing mediapersons here on Monday, he{the minister} said Yeddyurappa has given his consent to the National Highway Authority proposal to widen the Nantoor-Talapady highway by 45 metres instead of the earlier 60 metres. This will benefit more than 3,000 shop owners, who were fearing the land acquisition by the government. “Following opposition from the people, we met CM and explained the situation. The widening of the road from Nantoor to Talapady does not require 60 metre acquisition. In Goa and Kerala, NH had been widened by 45 metres.”

These decisions will come back to bite us all in the a$# when the inevitable traffic growth necessitates 6-laning of NH-17. But then again, we have never been accused of having a vision, have we?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 11 May 2010 13:32

The drama of "NHAI decides 60 metres width for NH-->Local politicians/goons/'activists' protest-->Govt. of the support the activists-->NHAI reduces the width (so that the same landowners can build shops and make profit)" routine is going to become a precedent. In every single state/place now vested interests can use this 4 step process to attain their nefarious goals.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 May 2010 01:00

India Plans $11 Billion Road Fund to Narrow China Gap (Update2)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... lh66S8E9Xo

May 14 (Bloomberg) -- India, ranked below war-ravaged Ivory Coast for the quality of its infrastructure, is planning to set up a 500 billion rupee ($11 billion) debt fund to build ports, roads and bridges needed to drive economic growth. “The modalities are being worked out,” Montek Singh Ahluwalia, a top government adviser said in a telephone interview from New Delhi. “The idea is to refinance lending institutions. We are talking to the World Bank and other multilateral agencies.” India doubled its target for infrastructure spending to $1 trillion in the five years starting 2012 to narrow the gap with China, the world’s fastest growing major economy. The fund is the latest attempt by the government to raise capital from overseas after a $5 billion fund planned in 2007 with Citigroup Inc. and Blackstone Group LP was shelved.

India’s per capita spending on city development is $17 each year, just 15 percent of what China spends, according to a report released by McKinsey & Co. last month. India will have 68 cities with a population of more than one million people, 13 cities with more than four million people and 6 mega cities with populations of 10 million or more, at least two of which will be among the five largest cities in the world by 2030.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 May 2010 07:27

In India, nobody wants to own the responsibility for anything, except when things go right. That is one reason why rules are not changed. We still have India Telegraph Act, 1885 etc.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 30 May 2010 06:14

Baddi-Barotiwala-Nalagarh industrial area would be connected by an expressway with upcoming international airport at Mohali and Inland Container Depot, and would soon be dedicated to industrialists. This was stated by Prof. Prem Kumar Dhumal, Chief Minister Himachal Pradesh while addressing the inaugural ceremony of the Pharmaceutical convention at Dharampur in district Solan after he lit the ceremonial lamp today.

Himachal Expressway

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 30 May 2010 22:53

The road doesnt look like an expressway as there are no barriers on the sides. How long is the expressway?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 May 2010 00:00

Barriers are typically only placed at curves. The picture above does show such a barrier - see the bottom left. Even US expressways and German autobahns don't have a continuous railing barrier on expressways.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 31 May 2010 07:16

In India they usually have one. Even the newly constructed highways have them at many places especially near the cities and major villages.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2010 18:15

Had a chance to drive on NH7 from Tirunelveli to Madurai recently. I was surprised to find that the entire stretch (from Kanyakumari to Madurai) was toll-free. Except for absent lane-markings at some stretches and a lack of shoulder, the Highway was very good.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2010 18:22

most likely the operator still hasnt fully completed his stuff. theres plenty of tolls from madurai to blr.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jun 2010 07:54

Flouting the rules: A tempo driver throws caution to the winds and endangers his own life as well as those of other road users, near Kondalampatti bypass on the National Highways in Salem. {Courtesy: The Hindu}

Nothing short of a six-feet high median with a spire like top can stop things like the above and pedestrians jumping over them to cross the road.
Added later: But, then, they will start driving in the wrong direction. people will make holes in the median to go through. Everything will be defeated in this country.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jun 2010 11:07

salem-karur-dindigul-madurai stretch has a strong and experienced group of wrong side drivers and bikers. this is even though enough of overpasses and underpasses seem to have been provided.

this is the same mentality that makes indians double park infront of shops instead of going 50m ahead and parking neatly or finding a neat space in a lane to park and walking 50m to get their stuff.

in my office a guy hsa gotten into the habit of parking in the spot right next to the basement door. nearly ran me over one day with misleading
movements. and this is when a giant 7 storey mall style car park is there for all, but people fight like retards for the 35 spots in our building
basement...so they can save 5 mins of walking to get their time wasting important stuff on the PC.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jun 2010 13:14

India's Highways of Death- NYTimes Video

Every day in India, 320 people are killed in traffic accidents, the highest rate in the world.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 08 Jun 2010 15:15

It is going to go a lot worse before there is any chance of improvement.

saip · Post by **saip** » 08 Jun 2010 20:36

Unless there is strict enforcement of road rules and strickter tests for new drivers there wont be any change. Few months ago we were driving on 6 lane divided highway and I see farm tractors and trucks coming in the opposite direction. I have not seen any police patrols on these roads. People are plain lazy to make a u-turn.