West Asia News and Discussions

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jun 2010 12:21

It was very badly handled by Israel.They could've used other methods of preventing the ship from continuing on course and not resorted to lethal firearms.Regardless of the truth of the incident,the inescapable truth's are that one,Israel's continued blockade of Gaza and the suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza,struggling to survive has brought upon this kind of international action with the highly symbolic aid boats.

Secondly,the US (belatedly),NATO,the UK too apart from the Arab world have all condemned the incident and demanded an end to the blockade.Egypt has opened the Rafah crossing and one can imagine it now turning a blind eye to the "tunnel rats" who smuggle in everything including vehicles.International public opinion has turned against Israel.Hamas must be jubilant.The extremists grow in stature after such PR disasters.One can even expect even more such attempts in the future until the blockade is lifted.The UN has also joined in condemnation and Israel now stands isolated.

Thirdly,the Turkish animosity towards Israel now,with open popular calls to support Hamas,is extermely dangerous to Israel.Turkey all these years was an example of a modern Muslim state,where religion was firmly kept in place.Israel enjoyed an excellent realtionship with Turkey,which is a NATO member too.To now have Turkey joining hands with Syria,Iran and supporting Hamas and the Hiz covertly,is a nightmare come true.To many in the west,there will be much dismay at the turn of events that are pushing Turkey into an Islamist tilt,especially if it gives more moral support to Iran.The tri-nation N-deal with Iran where Turkey was part of indicates the level to which Israeli-Turkish relations have deteriorated and have now hit rock bottom.Turkey now wants Israel "punished" for its actions and if there is no action taken against the Israelis,one cannot ignore the possibility that Turkey will in future protect its aid boats by its navy increasing the likelihood of an armed clash with Israel.

It is now for the O-team to rise to the occasion and cool the situ.The US still has the most influence in the region,even if relations with Israel have gone downhill since Bibi took over as PM. As the premier NATO power and godfather of Israel,it has to defuse the situ from escalating into a global confederation that targets Israel.That would be an international disaster and underscores why the Arab-Palestinian-Israeli imbroglio is the most dangerous global conflict that needs concerted,focussed daily attention at resolving.That need perhaps may be the only faint silver lining in this dark cloud and the UN has to act firmly and decisively in resolving the issues at hand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... srael.html

PS:Gaza flotilla: Turkey accused of behaving like Iran by Israel
The Turkish ruling party AKP was savagely attacked by an unrepentant Israeli government last night, which said it was behaving like Iran and was "wholly to blame" for the deterioration in relations between the two countries.

Damien McElroy, Justin Vela in Istanbul, Dina Kraft in Tel Aviv and Richard Spencer, Middle East Correspondent

Excerpt:

Israeli officials pointed to links between the leading political party and IHH, the organisation which owned the Mavi Marmara, the flagship of the aid flotilla on which commandos shot nine Turkish activists dead, and which Israel has linked to al-Qaeda.

Avigdor Lieberman, foreign minister, said that Turkey was "simply of no interest" and that Turkey may once have been a friend of Israel but "internal changes in Turkish society" had caused the split, as they had between Israel and Iran in 1979.

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"We didn't start this provocation, we did not send bullies with knives and metal rods to Turkey," he said. "In this case, the entire blame, all of it, from beginning to end, is that of Turkey.

We have nothing to apologise for. On the contrary."

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2010 14:37

Thanks Shyamd, we all knew that Israeli have testicular fortitude, those articles by the neutral observers on board tell us just how hard they can be when needed.

I hope the Indians will read and learn on what is the tactic used to deal with such carefully. What it takes to negotiate with these sorts.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 Jun 2010 14:51

Israel's complicity in apartheid crimes undermines its attack on Goldstone

--------------------
Sanku, I am sure there would have been easier ways to stop the 4/5 ships. Perhaps, take the engine out and have the boat towed to Ashdod.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2010 14:56

shyamd wrote: Sanku, I am sure there would have been easier ways to stop the 4/5 ships. Perhaps, take the engine out and have the boat towed to Ashdod.

Yes, I think they failed in expecting a violent reaction. Should have.

I dont think engines can be taken out (how, without boarding that is?) but yes the propeller screw could have been wrecked.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 Jun 2010 15:07

Yes, they did fail on anticipating so much resistance - besides the first few soldiers who landed were disarmed and taken below deck - the soldiers were actually given medical attention. Apparently, Military intelligence is getting their arse handed back to them, due to a total mili intel support failure for those commando's. Israeli's themselves are seeing this as a total f**k up.

DNW is saying that, Mili intel asked turkish counterparts who they meet everyday to profile the protestors. Turkish guys said they are just ordinary people, and will give up in no time. this was proven correct in all ships apart from the Mavi Marmara.

Yes, perhaps jammed the propellers. Israel would have had the last laugh, towing the ship to Ashdod.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 Jun 2010 15:30

India got Samad from UAE after four IM men escaped net

India was able to get back Abdul Samad, the brother of alleged Pune blast accused Yasin Bhatkal, from Dubai after New Delhi conveyed to the UAE its serious concern over four key Indian Mujahideen (IM) operatives being allowed to escape from Sharjah two months ago.

Top government sources told The Indian Express that at a security coordination meeting two months ago, New Delhi had asked UAE for help in nabbing four IM operatives suspected to be involved in the Pune attack, who were then in Sharjah. Their addresses were handed over; however, the four men escaped. India was later told that the men could not be found at the given addresses. Indian agencies believe the IM men escaped to Pakistan.

UAE cooperated with Indian agencies to mount round-the-clock surveillance on Samad for nearly a month, and ultimately virtually forced him to board Air India’s Dubai-Mangalore flight on May 24, a day before his three-month Dubai visa was to expire.

Good to hear that security coordination is taking place.

D-link: CBI seeks info from UAE on Bollywood actors

Officials said they had asked the Dubai authorities to furnish details of all the Bollywood personalities who visited Dubai frequently. It was common for Bollywood stars to have their stay at hotels sponsored by ganglords and join in lavish parties. Some were reported to have attended underworld dons’ kin’s weddings and entertained them.

The letter of rogatory has specified the names of at least four stars. Two of them are female always thought to have been associated with Dawood gang. One, officials said, had ‘‘very intimate’’ relations with the don and the other actress, a recent entrant in the political scene, was known to be associated with Dawood’s brother, Anees Ibrahim.

One of the two actors whose details the CBI has asked for is a controversial personality who has joined a political party that has its base only in Uttar Pradesh. Other film personalities under CBI scanner include a few producers and a director who has made successful movies on underworld. The director first came under the Mumbai Police’s scanner for talking to Chhota Shakeel on the phone.

Officials admitted the information they had sought would not help them in any ongoing investigation. ‘‘But we want to keep all these records as some of them are still in touch with the underworld,’’ an official said.

The relation between the UAE and India has improved recently with authorities there helping Indian agencies get their hands on several gangsters staying in Dubai. The most recent example was Abdul Samad of Bhatkal, Karnataka, who was forced to fly back to India. He has been booked in a 2009 arms case.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 04 Jun 2010 17:23

shyamd wrote:D-link: CBI seeks info from UAE on Bollywood actors

Officials said they had asked the Dubai authorities to furnish details of all the Bollywood personalities who visited Dubai frequently. It was common for Bollywood stars to have their stay at hotels sponsored by ganglords and join in lavish parties. Some were reported to have attended underworld dons’ kin’s weddings and entertained them.

The letter of rogatory has specified the names of at least four stars. Two of them are female always thought to have been associated with Dawood gang. One, officials said, had ‘‘very intimate’’ relations with the don (Mandakini?) and the other actress, a recent entrant in the political scene (Nagma?), was known to be associated with Dawood’s brother, Anees Ibrahim.

One of the two actors whose details the CBI has asked for is a controversial personality who has joined a political party that has its base only in Uttar Pradesh (Sanjay Dutt). Other film personalities under CBI scanner include a few producers and a director who has made successful movies on underworld (RGV?). The director first came under the Mumbai Police’s scanner for talking to Chhota Shakeel on the phone.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Jun 2010 17:35

Tamang- Has not MB also made sucessful movies on the Underworld. He could be on the list instead of RGV

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jun 2010 18:12

One has deep sympathy for Israelis and their suffering during the Holocaust,these days attacks from the Hiz and Hamas,but I think that this statement is taking the comparison a bit too far !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... d-War.html

Gaza flotilla attack: Israeli ambassador compares raid to Second World War
Israel's ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, has compared the Gaza flotilla attack with America's fight against Nazi Germany in the Second World War.

EXcerpt:

In an interview with Fox News, he described the operation, in which nine people died, as "perfectly legal, perfectly humane – and very responsible".

He defending the attack in open waters, saying: "Israel acted in accord with international law. Any state has the right to protect itself, certainly from a terrorist threat such as Hamas, including on the open seas.

"The US acted under similar international law when it fought the Germans and the Japanese in World War Two."

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 04 Jun 2010 19:30

Well to be fair Erdogan claimed the raid was like 9.11 heh.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Jun 2010 19:34

Philip wrote:One has deep sympathy for Israelis and their suffering during the Holocaust,these days attacks from the Hiz and Hamas,but I think that this statement is taking the comparison a bit too far !

EXcerpt:
In an interview with Fox News, he described the operation, in which nine people died, as "perfectly legal, perfectly humane – and very responsible".

He defending the attack in open waters, saying: "Israel acted in accord with international law. Any state has the right to protect itself, certainly from a terrorist threat such as Hamas, including on the open seas.

"The US acted under similar international law when it fought the Germans and the Japanese in World War Two."

Philip,
It appears Israel is trying to convey the message to Obama Administration.
"Turkish mediation threw a spanner in our plans with the nuclear swap deal. Act on Iran NOW or We WILL!!"
Altair

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jun 2010 20:30

What allies? They both are linked to US to prevent them from fighting.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Jun 2010 22:01

ramana wrote:What allies? They both are linked to US to prevent them from fighting.

Well, They are not anymore! Israelis did not want to be in a forced marriage.
This will definitely change many things for the Americans in their mid east strategy particularly regarding Iran.
I have a feeling Israel wanted this "flotilla" thing to go down as badly as possible.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 Jun 2010 22:12

To me it is very clear - Israel pulled a "let us teach something to America" stuff. Obama deliberately wanted to send a message to Netanyahu when he visited US. He now puts US in a situation which is more defensive than the grand statements that Democrats and Obama are particularly making about reaching out to Islamic world. The democrats and India's INC need to re-evaluate their "let's go back to 80s/early 90s when we had fun" stuff.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Jun 2010 22:23

Muppalla wrote:To me it is very clear - Israel pulled a "let us teach something to America" stuff.

Muppalla-ji
It is not that simple. Remember turkey's refusal to allow passage for US forces in 2003 through turkey to Eyeraaq? Remember Erdogan's walkout in 2009 from Davos summit from the stage in "protest of Israel's treatment of Gaza"?

This is just Turkish maneuvering pure and simple to become the leader of the Ummah. Everyone knows that like King Arthur who had to pull out a sword from the stone, you have to flex your muscle against Israelis to get the coveted leader position.

If they stick to course, in 10 years Turkey will make the bum - you heard it here first.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 Jun 2010 22:52

Anujan wrote: Muppalla-ji
It is not that simple. Remember turkey's refusal to allow passage for US forces in 2003 through turkey to Eyeraaq? Remember Erdogan's walkout in 2009 from Davos summit from the stage in "protest of Israel's treatment of Gaza"?

This is just Turkish maneuvering pure and simple to become the leader of the Ummah. Everyone knows that like King Arthur who had to pull out a sword from the stone, you have to flex your muscle against Israelis to get the coveted leader position.

If they stick to course, in 10 years Turkey will make the bum - you heard it here first.

Interesting and what that means is it is culmination of various intended-messages and interests. Bum for Turkey may be little tricky as it is in the vicinity of all gora nations.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 Jun 2010 23:50

Pictures received via email

Posted on 26th April 2010

Oman has entered into some naval cooperation with China.

Sayyid Badr holds talks with China minister

Fri, 04 June 2010

Beijing — Sayyid Badr bin Saud al Busaidi, Minister Responsible for Defence Affairs, held an official session of talks with Liang Guang-lie, Chinese State Adviser and Minister of Defence, here yesterday in the context of his current visit there. The session discussed the good bilateral relations, issues of common interest and means to foster co-operation between the ministries of defence of the two countires. The session was attended from the Omani side by Major General Said bin Nassir al Salmi, commander of the Royal Army of Oman , Shaikh Abdulla bin Saleh al Saadi, the Sultanate’s Ambassador to China, and members of the accompanying military delegation and from the Chinese side by senior officers at ministry of defence.
Meanwhile, Sayyid Badr visited a number of military units of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army and was briefed on modernisation in those units. He also attended light arms live firing.
The minister’s visit was in response to an invitation from the state adviser and minister of defence of China.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 05 Jun 2010 01:31

Western media is behaving strangely on this incident
As if Israel's killing a bull is ok but killing a rabbit creates diplomatic tension,
what's the reason of giving too much limelight to mullahs and blaming Israel for all the ill-wills of hamas or islamic terror?
why this turnaround? daal mein kuck kala hai?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Jun 2010 01:41

Samay wrote:Western media is behaving strangely on this incident
As if Israel's killing a bull is ok but killing a rabbit creates diplomatic tension,
what's the reason of giving too much limelight to mullahs and blaming Israel for all the ill-wills of hamas or islamic terror?
why this turnaround? daal mein kuck kala hai?

Social management requires that the anger built up and frustration built has to be released in some way. By this publicity the larger frustration worldwide is eased. It also bring Turkey as the leader of the muslim world since Pak has taken a back seat as a slave country

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Jun 2010 08:12

Turkey: "Israel is about to lose" best friend in the region

http://www.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... egion.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Jun 2010 09:00

Can Obama's Muslim engagement survive Gaza?

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... rvive_gaza

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Jun 2010 09:03

Egypt confronts its role in the Gaza blockade

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... a_blockade

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Jun 2010 09:10

Sweetened poison: How Obama lost Muslim hearts and minds

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... _and_minds

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 05 Jun 2010 13:11

Tamang, the bollywood director is Mahesh manjrekar. See this:
http://telegraphindia.com/1100605/jsp/n ... 532105.jsp

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 05 Jun 2010 16:16

Israeli commando who shot six dead on ship may get ‘medal of valour’

James Hider and Alexander Christie-Miller
16 COMMENTS
RECOMMEND? (12)
Six of the nine activists killed in Monday’s raid on an aid convoy were shot by a single Israeli commando who is now being considered for a medal of valour.

Israeli reports of the likely award for the soldier — credited with saving his injured comrades as passengers attacked them with clubs, knives and even the guns they had captured from the commandos — are expected to inflame the row with Turkey over the attack on the flotilla.

Mustafa Akyol, a prominent political writer, described the move as an “insult and a provocation to Turkey”. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish Prime Minister, vented his anger yesterday by quoting from the Bible.

“I am speaking to them in their own language. The sixth commandment says: ‘Thou shalt not kill.’ Did you not understand .... I say in Hebrew: ‘Lo Tirtzakh’,” Mr Erdogan said.

RELATED LINKS
Author: Gaza flotilla attack ‘was piracy’
Fresh details of the raid, which sparked accusations of piracy and state terrorism, and wrecked Israel’s strategic partnership with Turkey, emerged yesterday. Autopsies in Turkey claim to show that most of the victims were shot at close range. Dr Haluk Ince, the director of Istanbul’s Medical Examination Institute, said that five of the victims died of bullet wounds to the head.

Reports suggest that passengers had been dragging three captured commandos into the hold of the ship when the shooting broke out. However, a British passenger who survived the pre-dawn encounter in international waters told The Times that some of the more peaceful activists on board had tried to protect captured Israeli soldiers.

The Israeli commando who killed six of the passengers on Mavi Marmara, the Turkish ferry owned by the IHH charity, told The Jerusalem Post that he had been the last of 15 soldiers to abseil down the rope from a helicopter on to the ship.

Identified for security reasons only as Staff Sergeant S, he said that, contrary to initial Israeli army reports, the shooting had started within minutes as he and his comrades were set upon by a “mob of mercenaries”.

As he landed on the top deck, he said he saw three of his superior officers who had landed ahead of him lying injured, one with a bullet wound to the stomach, another shot in the knee and the third beaten unconscious. He formed his men around the wounded, drew his 9mm Glock pistol and opened fire on passengers who he says had fired at the boarding party with guns captured from the first soldiers to land.

“When I hit the deck, I was immediately attacked by people with bats, metal pipes and axes,” he said. “These were without a doubt terrorists. I could see the murderous rage in their eyes and that they were coming to kill us.” He said he saw one of the passengers holding a seized pistol to another Israeli commando’s head.

British and American activists who were on the ship told a different story, accusing the Israelis of firing live rounds from the boats surrounding the ship, the roof where the Israelis had landed, and the helicopter hovering above. They said women went below deck to help in a medical area set up before the attack, and the captured Israeli soldiers were taken down there.

The Turkish Haberturk newspaper ran pictures yesterday that show them being treated on the boat. “They were treated almost immediately,” said Fatima Mohammadi, an American. “They were then released and went back to Israel in bandages.”

She said she was the only woman on the top deck when the firing began. “They started with rubber bullets and stun grenades and then it switched at some point. The cameraman next to me was shot once with a rubber bullet and once with live fire from one of the boats. Blood was pouring out as I worked on his arm.”

Alexandra Lort-Phillips, a 37-year-old activist from Hackney, East London, described seeing an Israeli soldier taken down into the stairwell below the deck where the soldiers landed.

“I went down the stairwell and there was a massive crowd of people and lots of shouting,” she told The Times. “There was a sense of ‘My god, we’ve got an Israeli soldier’. I don’t think we really knew what we were going to do. I saw a gun being taken. His gun belt was removed and someone ran past me with the weapon and disappeared. They could have shot him but didn’t.”

A wounded Turkish passenger, Muhyittin Yildirim, said: “Some Israeli soldiers were rendered ineffective. Our friends got their weapons. If they had a bad intention, they would have used the weapons against the soldiers but they threw them to the sea.” He said people resisted “as a precaution” because they did not trust the soldiers.

Ms Lort-Phillips said about 25 people gathered around a soldier as he was held by his legs and stripped to his underwear. “The women who were there were shouting ‘Don’t hurt him’.”

She denied he was beaten, but said: “There were obviously some guys there who were extremely agitated by the situation. It is like you’d expect when there’s a fight between men.”

Tauqir Sharif, 23, from East London, said that gunfire was coming from the helicopter overhead. “People were just trying to hide. Everyone was running, screaming and shouting. They were using all different kinds of weapons — rubber bullets, paint-ball bullets,” he said of the Israelis.

A Palestinian-born Briton, Osama Qashoo, described how a photographer standing next to him was shot as he raised his camera. “It was raining with live ammunition,” he said. “I put my hand on the back of his head and tried to lift him. Then I felt my hand was wet. His brain was in my hand. I couldn’t stop it.”

Testimony of rogue commando who killed six civilian activists further undermines official IDF story

by YANIV REICH on JUNE 4, 2010
The Israeli government is very rapidly losing control of its own hasbara efforts.

As documented in recent posts, Israel’s Consulate in New York first claimed no commandos were detained by activists, then Israel’s navy said there were, and just now the consulate wrote me again (@HybridStates) to say no IDF troops were captured at any point.

Excuse me? I think its time for the consulate’s Twitter manager to call Tel Aviv and get their story straight.

More to the point, The Times (UK) now reports that one commando killed six civilian activists, and he is now in line to receive a “medal of valor” for his supposed bravery in shooting in the head multiple civilians. This new spotlight on Staff Sergeant S, as he is referred to in order to protect his identity (valor indeed!), gives him a marvelous opportunity to earn himself an actual award—for helping to prove just how false is the IDF version of events.

In his testimony, he explains how he came to murder so many people. As reported by The Times:

As he landed on the ship’s top deck, he said he saw three of his superior officers who had landed ahead of him lying wounded, one with a bullet wound to the stomach, another shot in the knee and the third beaten unconscious.

Taking charge, he formed his men in a perimeter around the wounded, pulled his 9mm Glock pistol and opened fire on passengers.

Did you catch that? He told The Times that he pulled out his 9mm Glock pistol.

Yesterday, however, we were informed by a navy officer that navy commandos don’t carry 9mm guns, and that the empty 9mm casings were proof that the humanitarian activists had brought guns with them. Oops, someone forgot to tell Sergeant S. Then, of course, Michael Oren parroted a recital of this “evidence” on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, unchallenged by any differing opinions or contradictory testimony, as usual.

Thankfully, Staff Sergeant S has done at least one positive thing in the otherwise highly criminal last few days: help the world see the very distorted if not outright fabricated fantasy that is the IDF story about the flotilla massacre.

Links provided in the article

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 05 Jun 2010 16:21

Probe on Dawood link with stars

SAMYABRATA RAY GOSWAMI

Sanjay Dutt
Mumbai, June 4: The CBI has sent letters rogatory to the UAE seeking details of the association of Sanjay Dutt, Mahesh Manjrekar and other Bollywood figures with Dawood Ibrahim’s “D-Company”, a top agency official said.

The names of two Bollywood actresses — both of whom “allegedly” shared romantic liaisons with Dawood and his brother Anees— also figure on the list. The CBI sent the letters after approval from the home ministry.

“We have information that in the 90s, these people were guests of Dawood in Dubai on various occasions. Their hotel bills were picked up by the D-Company. They were regulars at their parties and weddings. We want to know the extent of these associations,” the CBI official said.

The information, though, has not been sought in connection with any particular ongoing investigation. ‘‘But as investigators, we need these records as some of them are still in touch with the underworld,’’ the official said.

Letters rogatory are formal requests for judicial assistance from courts in one country to those in another nation. They remain one of the most common methods for collection of evidence from a foreign country, and are usually entertained when the nations have an extradition and mutual legal assistance treaty (MLAT).

“In the case of the UAE, we have had a MLAT in place for over a decade, but it did not produce the desired results. Things are changing now with stronger bonds between the two nations, helping investigative agencies,” the CBI official said.

The bilateral ties, always warm, got a boost from the visit of UAE Vice-President Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid to New Delhi in March.

The Enforcement Directorate (ED), too, hopes to leverage the robust relations between the two nations to achieve a breakthrough in the multi-crore bribery case involving former Jharkhand chief minister Madhu Koda.

The ED had sent a letter rogatory after approval from a Ranchi court in February, but things have started moving only in the past two months.

“We suspect that a part of Koda’s multi-crore fortune was invested in nine luxury properties in Dubai worth around Rs 221 crore in all. We are also probing five foreign bank accounts and eight foreign and Indian firms,” said an ED official.

Officials suspect Koda invested money in real estate projects in Dubai through his business associates Binod Sinha and Anil Bastawade.

“According to our information, Koda and his associates invested in nine plots valued at over Rs 221 crore. Of this, Rs 80 crore has already been paid. The properties include state-of-the-art residential apartments Spica and Triangle Tower located at prime locations in Dubai, including in the upscale Jumeira village. We need documents from the UAE to corroborate our findings. The letter rogatory is for this purpose,” said the ED official.

Koda’s money, ED sources said, was wired — transferred online — to Dubai through hawala channels. “We are hopeful of getting concrete evidences and leads” the official said.

Another case being held up as an example is the arrest last month of Abdul Samad Bhatkal, believed to be linked to the German Bakery blast in Pune in February, soon after he arrived in Mangalore from Dubai. The arrest, officially made in a 2009 arms seizure, triggered speculation Bhatkal may have been deported.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 05 Jun 2010 18:34

More so-called sekoolarism on display in Turkey:

It's not Israel's fault the raid went awry - that's no different than our Bluestar, etc.
The fact is that the other side was spoiling for a fight, and if you're stuck walking on eggshells to try and do things perfectly each and every time, the laws of probability say that you're not going to get it perfect every time, so it's an unreasonable standard to be held to.

Israel was stupid in staking their future on partnership with an Islamic state, when it's well-known that they only look out for their own. If India had done the same, and staked its strategic future on partnership with some Islamic country, do you think things would have turned out any different? No - the only difference is that our eventual stumble would happen in some other different time and place, but the result would be the same - Muslims all banding together to crow against us in the usual and inevitable way. Those people just don't have any credibility. They only look out for their own, and that's how the chips always fall with them. They always end up in that configuration, and the particulars of the events that led to it are mere details.

If you ever see a bunch of Muslims banding together to defend some infidels against Muslim activists, then that would be noteworthy. But seeing Muslims yelping and barking over other Muslims is business as usual.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 05 Jun 2010 19:14

Sanjay, there is no comparison with Bluestar and what happened on board Mavi Marmara. We were dealing with AK-47 armed terrorists inside the complex. These were civilians, who were just armed with hose pipes and crow bars. Question for you, do you really need to shoot to kill at point blank range, that too many times? Nope, they should have shot at the arm or leg and at worst several times in the arm or leg.

Israel staked their partnership with Turkey because of the close relations that have been developed with the pro secular Turkish Army leadership - who were still pro secular until they decided to launch a coup attempt apparently backed by Israeli intelligence. As I have said in the previous posts, Israel was allowed to monitor Syrian movements from turkish soil, and Kurdistan is at peace because the Mossad effectively brought Barzani onto the Turkish side, which allowed the PKK to be taken out. These are just small incidents in their relationship, there was a huge strategic partnership between the 2 countries.

------------------
IOL says King Abdullah is having trouble grappling with the Mutawa in KSA. I have posted before on efforts by the King to reform the institutions of hte country and his problems that he is facing.

One of the main drivers to reform the religious police is because the KSA intel reckons they will radicalise the shia population in KSA and may team up with Houthi's etc.

it was the Mutaween that forced the resignation of editor of Al Watan, who made controversial remarks in an article recently.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 05 Jun 2010 19:16

Israeli troops board aid ship bound for Gaza

Israeli naval forces boarded an Irish-owned ship bound for Gaza today, just five days after killing nine passengers in a bloody raid on a previous aid convoy.

The commandos boarded the ship "with the full compliance" of the crew and passengers without any of the violence that had marked the storming of the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara on Monday, Israeli officials said.

"Our forces boarded the boat and took control without meeting any resistance from the crew or the passengers. Everything took place without violence," a military spokeswoman said.

The MV Rachel Corrie, carrying 20 passengers and crew as well as humanitarian aid for Gaza, had ignored orders not to break the three-year blockade of the Palestinian enclave that has been enforced by Israel and Egypt.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 05 Jun 2010 19:42

shyamd wrote:Sanjay, there is no comparison with Bluestar and what happened on board Mavi Marmara. We were dealing with AK-47 armed terrorists inside the complex. These were civilians, who were just armed with hose pipes and crow bars. Question for you, do you really need to shoot to kill at point blank range, that too many times? Nope, they should have shot at the arm or leg and at worst several times in the arm or leg.

Israel staked their partnership with Turkey because of the close relations that have been developed with the pro secular Turkish Army leadership - who were still pro secular until they decided to launch a coup attempt apparently backed by Israeli intelligence. As I have said in the previous posts, Israel was allowed to monitor Syrian movements from turkish soil, and Kurdistan is at peace because the Mossad effectively brought Barzani onto the Turkish side, which allowed the PKK to be taken out. These are just small incidents in their relationship, there was a huge strategic partnership between the 2 countries.

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IOL says King Abdullah is having trouble grappling with the Mutawa in KSA. I have posted before on efforts by the King to reform the institutions of hte country and his problems that he is facing.

One of the main drivers to reform the religious police is because the KSA intel reckons they will radicalise the shia population in KSA and may team up with Houthi's etc.

it was the Mutaween that forced the resignation of editor of Al Watan, who made controversial remarks in an article recently.

I highly doubt that Israel wanted to see bloodshed on that flotilla interception. You can see the "non-violent" "pacifists" clearly throwing an Israeli soldier over the deck railing. They don't look terribly "non-violent" or "pacifist" to me. It looks like the soldiers were overwhelmed by the reception they got, and simply panicked.

The breast-beating Muslim activists seem to a pretty oxymoronic definition of pacifism, akin to Arundhati's notion of "Gandhians with guns"

What were the "pacifist" "aid workers" doing with heavy metal rods, and such big knives?
Why would those activists have such big knives in the first place? Goat-slaughtering rituals?

Turkey's secular military's hands seem to be tied. It's doubtful they can pull off a coup, especially when the Islamist politicians are wrapping themselves in the Palestinian flag and the banner of Islamist nationalism.

Even just a couple of years ago, Turkish secularists would mount their own counter-demonstrations against the Islamists, but now you don't see any secularists out on the streets. Erdogan and his partymen have carefully maneuvered the situation towards the point where secularists are not only neutralized, but actively defecting to the Islamist camp.

What good then is an Israeli alliance with a ineffectual Turkish military that can't do anything but stand by helplessly as the Islamist demagoguery builds up a full head of steam?

If the US is hostage to its dependency on Turkey, then it's yet another reason to get out of Iraq sooner rather than later. I'm sure that Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz never saw this problem coming, prior to their Iraq invasion.

Meanwhile, the hypocritical Europeans are opportunistically hollering about the terrible offense given to the "sekoolar, moderate" Turkey, but when you ask the same Europeans if they'll admit Turkey into their EU, then the descriptions of "sekoolar" and "moderate" are quickly replaced with words like "barbaric" and "inhumane". The glass half-full is suddenly declared half-empty.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 05 Jun 2010 20:21

Sanjay M wrote: I highly doubt that Israel wanted to see bloodshed on that flotilla interception. You can see the "non-violent" "pacifists" clearly throwing an Israeli soldier over the deck railing. They don't look terribly "non-violent" or "pacifist" to me. It looks like the soldiers were overwhelmed by the reception they got, and simply panicked.

The whole point was to break the illegal blockade which is harming the people of Gaza. Well, what do you want them to do with a soldier who is coming to take over the boat with a gun, just give him a cup of tea and say please go back to your boat or submarine, we want to go to Gaza.

What were the "pacifist" "aid workers" doing with heavy metal rods, and such big knives?
Why would those activists have such big knives in the first place? Goat-slaughtering rituals?

Link
I think you are referring to that video. Wow, if so many knives were there, I wonder why so many soldiers didn't get stabbed. I think only 2 were stabbed. Yes, there were extremists on board that ship, and yes one of them did stab a soldier - I agree that he deserved to be shot at. Also, when you have the opportunity to stop a person without killing him/her, why did you take that option? There were people also bleeding and were still alive, but the soldiers on board refused to provide medical treatment - so a few of them bled to death, only after much later were some passengers (the ones left alive) taken to Israel for treatment.

But, what about the rest of the passengers? They disarmed the soldiers, throwing their weapons into the water and brought them down, and in fact, one activist was hitting an Israeli soldier, organisers came and stopped him from doing so, and gave the Israeli soldier medical aid- which the Israeli consulate first said didn't happen, then changed their mind once footage was released of medical treatment being provided. I don't know how many demonstrations you have seen, but quite often, there will be a few idiots who will cause trouble, but does that mean they should ALL be generalised as extremists etc?

Turkey's secular military's hands seem to be tied. It's doubtful they can pull off a coup, especially when the Islamist politicians are wrapping themselves in the Palestinian flag and the banner of Islamist nationalism.

So, wrapping yourself with a palestinian flag = islamism now?

There are a lot of people who support an independent palestine, they don't have to be islamists.

Even just a couple of years ago, Turkish secularists would mount their own counter-demonstrations against the Islamists, but now you don't see any secularists out on the streets. Erdogan and his partymen have carefully maneuvered the situation towards the point where secularists are not only neutralized, but actively defecting to the Islamist camp.

Upto a million people went on the streets when there were plans of an "islamic state" in turkey in 2008. Lets see what happens in their next election. Doing something about helping the people of Gaza, will no doubt touch a lot of people's hearts.

What good then is an Israeli alliance with a ineffectual Turkish military that can't do anything but stand by helplessly as the Islamist demagoguery builds up a full head of steam?

Thats why it has been frozen for a while now.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Jun 2010 22:38

Israeli forces board Gaza-bound aid vessel

JERUSALEM: Israeli forces seized a Gaza-bound aid vessel without meeting resistance on Saturday, preventing it from breaking an Israeli maritime blockade of the Hamas-ruled territory days after a similar effort turned bloody.

The military said its forces boarded the 1,200-ton Rachel Corrie cargo ship from the sea, not helicopters.

The takeover stood in marked contrast to a violent confrontation at sea earlier this week when Israeli commandos blocked a Turkish aid vessel trying to break the blockade. At the time, Israeli commandos rappelled from helicopters and a clash with passengers left nine pro-Palestinian activists dead.

Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Avital Leibovich says Saturday's takeover took only a few minutes and that the vessel was being taken to Israel's Ashdod port.

The Irish ship - named for an American college student who was crushed to death by a bulldozer in 2003 while protesting Israeli house demolitions in Gaza - was carrying hundreds of tons of aid, including wheelchairs, medical supplies and cement.

The standoff has raised international pressure on Israel to lift the three-year-old blockade that has plunged the territory's 1.5 million residents deeper into poverty.

Activists on board the boat, including Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan, had said they wouldn't resist if Israeli soldiers tried to take over their vessel.

This latest attempt to breach the blockade differs significantly from the flotilla the Israeli troops intercepted on Monday, killing eight Turks and a Turkish-American after being set upon by a group of activists.

Nearly 700 activists had joined that operation, most of them aboard the lead boat from Turkey that was the scene of the violence.

That boat, the Mavi Marmara, was sponsored by an Islamic aid group from Turkey, the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedom and Humanitarian Relief. Israel outlawed the group, known by its Turkish acronym IHH, in 2008 because of alleged ties to Hamas. The group is not on the US State Department list of terror organizations, however.

By contrast, the Rachel Corrie was carrying just 11 passengers from Ireland and Malaysia, whose effort was mainly sponsored by the Free Gaza movement, a Cyprus-based group that has renounced violence. Nine crew were also on board.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 05 Jun 2010 22:40

shyamd, read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/opinion/03oren.html

Is it true that Israeli soldiers suffered gunshot wounds? If so, by whom? Were the seagulls shooting at them? Who owned those caliber cartridges that aren't used by Israeli forces?

Breaking of illegal blockade using knives? If so, then it wasn't a "peace" ship, but a vessel intended for hostile actions.

I don't see why the blockade is illegal, when blockades are by definition permitted under international law - like when we blockaded Karachi harbour. Please tell me why the blockade is illegal?

So, wrapping yourself with a palestinian flag = islamism now? There are a lot of people who support an independent palestine, they don't have to be islamists.

It's the Hamas flag which controls Gaza, and which has ousted the PLO administration there.
So, in that context, yes, the flag of Hamas is the one which Turkish activists are defending.
Why aren't the so-called "sekoolar" Turks up in arms over the ouster of the PLO by the fundamentalist Hamas? Their "sekoolarism" seems to change directions with the wind - just like Musharraf's "devotion" to the war on terror.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 05 Jun 2010 23:48

Sanjay M wrote:shyamd, read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/opinion/03oren.html

Yes, there is a direct rebuttal to what he recited in that article. I post it below.

Is it true that Israeli soldiers suffered gunshot wounds? If so, by whom? Were the seagulls shooting at them? Who owned those caliber cartridges that aren't used by Israeli forces?

Hmm.... if they suffered gun shot wounds, why didn't they show the video of it taking place - this sergeant guy says he landed and he saw the soldiers to his left lying there with bullet wounds etc. I mean they showed the stabbings take place, but not gun shot wounds? That would be awesome to show the world how, a "terrorist" is shooting an under armed commando. I Wonder, why IDFnewsdesk just released selected bits of video and not the entire incident? Activists said they fired teargas and rubber bullets first, before sending commando's in. Lets wait for more videos to come out - oh wait, they have all been seized by the IDF anyway, the latest videos had to be smuggled out through memory cards.

shyamd wrote:
Testimony of rogue commando who killed six civilian activists further undermines official IDF story
by YANIV REICH on JUNE 4, 2010
The Israeli government is very rapidly losing control of its own hasbara efforts.

As documented in recent posts, Israel’s Consulate in New York first claimed no commandos were detained by activists, then Israel’s navy said there were, and just now the consulate wrote me again (@HybridStates) to say no IDF troops were captured at any point.

Excuse me? I think its time for the consulate’s Twitter manager to call Tel Aviv and get their story straight.

More to the point, The Times (UK) now reports that one commando killed six civilian activists, and he is now in line to receive a “medal of valor” for his supposed bravery in shooting in the head multiple civilians. This new spotlight on Staff Sergeant S, as he is referred to in order to protect his identity (valor indeed!), gives him a marvelous opportunity to earn himself an actual award—for helping to prove just how false is the IDF version of events.

In his testimony, he explains how he came to murder so many people. As reported by The Times:

As he landed on the ship’s top deck, he said he saw three of his superior officers who had landed ahead of him lying wounded, one with a bullet wound to the stomach, another shot in the knee and the third beaten unconscious.

Taking charge, he formed his men in a perimeter around the wounded, pulled his 9mm Glock pistol and opened fire on passengers.

Did you catch that? He told The Times that he pulled out his 9mm Glock pistol.

Yesterday, however, we were informed by a navy officer that navy commandos don’t carry 9mm guns, and that the empty 9mm casings were proof that the humanitarian activists had brought guns with them. Oops, someone forgot to tell Sergeant S. Then, of course, Michael Oren parroted a recital of this “evidence” on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, unchallenged by any differing opinions or contradictory testimony, as usual.

Thankfully, Staff Sergeant S has done at least one positive thing in the otherwise highly criminal last few days: help the world see the very distorted if not outright fabricated fantasy that is the IDF story about the flotilla massacre.
Direct Links provided in the article

Breaking of illegal blockade using knives? If so, then it wasn't a "peace" ship, but a vessel intended for hostile actions.

Well to be fair, Israeli's also said screwdrivers and other tools that you could find on any ship was a weapon that was "seized". But I say again, only a few had knives, in fact official figure says 1 soldier was stabbed and if these supposed pistols that were not from the army were thrown overboard, I wonder why they decided not to throw their knives and other weapons - wouldnt that make their story more credible? Israel has to lie to protect itself because it has been exposed once again.

I don't see why the blockade is illegal, when blockades are by definition permitted under international law - like when we blockaded Karachi harbour. Please tell me why the blockade is illegal?

Its illegal because a democratically elected government was voted into power by the people of gaza and israel has stopped food/aid completely entering(only 20% of the required aid is allowed in now I think, poverty rates have tripled since the start of it) the Gaza strip, just because of that reason. Besides, CNN has confirmed to the whole world who started the war against Hamas anyway, so we don't need to quote from any arab sources.

So, wrapping yourself with a palestinian flag = islamism now? There are a lot of people who support an independent palestine, they don't have to be islamists.

It's the Hamas flag which controls Gaza, and which has ousted the PLO administration there.
So, in that context, yes, the flag of Hamas is the one which Turkish activists are defending.

Watch the video I sent you, there is only 1 supposed Hamas flag, and there are loads of other scarves with the official palestinian flag colours on them. Oh and also, the flag that you are referring to is the Shahadah(the article of faith for muslims), and is NOT the official Hamas symbol or flag. And whats wrong with defending Hamas anyways? They are actually doing some honest work for the people of Gaza, and are lot less corrupt than the American/Israeli backed PLO.

Why aren't the so-called "sekoolar" Turks up in arms over the ouster of the PLO by the fundamentalist Hamas? Their "sekoolarism" seems to change directions with the wind - just like Musharraf's "devotion" to the war on terror.

Why should they be up in arms if Hamas takes over from the PLO? Ermm... you do know that Hamas won the elections democratically right.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Jun 2010 00:04

This Could Get Interesting
Saad Hariri's newspaper in Lebanon says the Turkish prime minister is thinking of running the blockade of Gaza himself.
When asked if Turkey might break relations, Tan cited the high emotions of the Turkish public about the raid. He said: "We don't want this to go to that point." Of course they do. Otherwise they wouldn't have sponsored a flotilla to break the blockade of an "ally". If Obama allows this to happen without getting NATO involved to say "Oh no you don't!" then... well... I don't know. We've never had a President who did anything so clearly against the interests of his own country before, so that'd be kinda ****** up. Obama seems to be leading us to

http://www.michaeltotten.com/2010/06/th ... esting.php

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 06 Jun 2010 02:26

This is called Stockholm syndrome??

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 06 Jun 2010 06:55

Prem wrote: Saad Hariri's newspaper in Lebanon says the Turkish prime minister is thinking of running the blockade of Gaza himself.

That would put them in serious conflict with new found friend Ahm-a-nut-job.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 06 Jun 2010 08:59

Ahm-in-need-of-jihad cannot afford to allow any more anti-Israel street protests in Tehran -- lest they morph into protests against his own regime. For a regime accustomed to focusing more on the living conditions of Palestinians than on the living conditions at home, this seems to be a new chapter for them.

If Turkey's PM wants to leapfrog everyone to become the latest supreme defender of the faith - presumably Shahrukh Khan is too busy - then I think the Turkish military might actually benefit from putting a mango crate on his ship.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 Jun 2010 09:01

Turkish Military has been slowly brought into the grip of the AKP so exploding mangoes may be unlikely. could one have imagined Ergenekon 15 years ago?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 06 Jun 2010 10:29

Then Turkey is a total writeoff, since then it would inexorably gravitate back to the fold of Islam,

Not only that, but their geopolitical circumstances would compel them to become a spearhead of Islamism, just as they not-so-coincidentally were in the past.

The question is - would they be able to rule over the Arab lands as they did in the past? That seems doubtful, since as much as Arabs hate the local regimes lording it over them, they would not like to be lorded over from afar.

In that case, Caliphate would not revive, and an Islamist Turkey without any restored empire could easily face a drubbing from its unfriendly neighbors, just as revolutionary Iran was quickly clobbered by Saddam.

Just as a comparison - Iran too had a significantly large secular activist movement when the Shah was deposed, but the quick takeover by the religious forces then quickly undermined them. Likewise, once the Turkish military is sufficiently co-opted by the ruling party, then any secular opposition could likewise be similarly sidelined and made irrelevant.

Could a Turkey under Islamist rule eventually reach for the nuclear option? I think that just like Iran, an Islamist Turkey would likewise want some big toys commensurate with their ambitions on the world stage. So yes, they too would go in for nukes.