Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby RamaY » 11 Jun 2010 21:00

^ I think that 55Kg limit is for nukes :twisted:

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 11 Jun 2010 21:18

Aditya_V wrote:Will they include a seeker in the Missile in Akash-MK-II, why do they still need the 55KG warhead, thats seems pretty large when compared to other SAM's standards.


They could add a seeker ( ARH/IIR ) and make the missile autonomous , the disadvantage will be the cost of the missile will go up significantly , the present Command Guidance mode affords a cheaper and mass produced missile although it depends on Rajendra FCR from start to end game engagement.

I think it would be far more cost-effective if DRDO can increase the capability of Rajendra to allow it to track more targets and guide more missile and incrementally improve the range of the missile to ~ 35 km , that would be the only way they can quickly get Akash Mk2 going in 2 years time frame.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Jun 2010 21:32

I think a rotating 2 faced rajendra that can track 360' and guide 16 missiles instead of fixed face 90' and 4 missiles at present will add lot
more redundancy to the whole battery in maintaining 360' coverage.

David Siegel
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 60
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 07:40

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby David Siegel » 11 Jun 2010 21:51

Akash Mk-2 will become Akash EX (Extended Range Mk-II)
http://idrw.org/?p=1983

Initial work on Akash MK-2 has begun ,and the new missiles system will be fielded within next two years by DRDO , earlier plans was to have Akash mk-2 with range up to 50 to 60km but those plans have been curtailed to bring in only extended range Akash with marginal increase in range of 10 to 15 km from its current range of 20 to25 km .
This probably has been done to avoid two different long range missiles in Army and Air force arsenal , DRDO and IAI of Israel have already developed Barak-II (Barak 8 with range of 70km for navy and work on land based version will also be developed soon ,so its logical to work on Barak-II which will be long range interceptor missile for all three forces while Akash MK-1 and MK-2 will be Medium range surface to air interceptor missile for both army and air force .
Barak-2 has been recently been tested in Tel Aviv successfully and further testing will be held in India later this year .
While DRDO will be working with French for the short range Low Level Quick Reaction Missile (LLQRM) know has MAITRI , which will have technology developed for Trishul LLQRM TDP (technology Demonstrator Project) and will have range of 8 to 15km and will be used by all three defence forces of India.
DRDO will also be developing more advance version of the Rajendra BSR (Battery Surveillance Radar) which is PESA radar, while Akash Mk-2 will have a Rajendra derivative AESA radar to perform the same role, AESA radar will give it better tracking, and engagement functions. Work on AESA variant has begun and almost nearing completion.
DRDO expects to increase the range of Akash by using using better composite booster with lengthened booster section to achieve the desired range.
This will be the Roles of Surface to Air missile in Indian Armed Force
MAITRI (LLQRM) 8-15 km Quick reaction short range Air to Surface missile
Akash MK-1 /MK-2 (MR-SAM) 20-25 /35 km Medium range Air to Surface missile
Barak-2 ( LRSAM) 70km Long Range Air to Surface missile
While all three missile systems will have different roles in Indian Armed force and will be inducted by all three forces ,only Akash MK-1/2 will not see service in Indian Navy .

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2486
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 11 Jun 2010 21:53

Austin wrote:Barak-2 and Akash SAM are different system , the former is a MR/LR system ( ~ 70 - 150 km ) while the latter is in SHORAD-ER category ( ~ 25 km )


Small nitpick Austin: Barak-2 is 70 km range. There is no confirmation that there is a 150 km missile in the works. There have been odd gossips here & there but no official word from DRDO. Also the term MR & LR seems to be used interchange'ably in many DDM reports. Barak-2 is an MR-SAM IMO, not an LR-SAM.

Agreed that Akash is an SRSAM. I just want to make sure that at least within BRF, we use an agreed-upon terminology.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 11 Jun 2010 21:55

Yes they can do that as well to achieve large target tracking/guidance and/or improve the present Raj via better signal processor,software to track/guide many targets.

The USP of Akash is its a cost effective missile system that can be mass produced and mass deployed with mobility to deal with cheap cruise missile ,smart weapon and aircraft threats

Add Autonomous guidance to the missile it becomes expensive , make Rajendra AESA from present PESA it becomes expensive and looses it original goal.

If they can improve the accuracy of Rajendra FCR and consequently increase the kill probability of single missile from the present ~ 86 % to above ~ 95 % then it would mean they would need less number of missile per target for high Pk , that itself would give Akash far greater track/kill capability.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4464
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby putnanja » 11 Jun 2010 22:16

From Shiv Arror's blog :

EXCLUSIVE: Akash Mk-II SAM To Fly In Two Years

...The Akash Mk-II will be a longer-range, faster and more accurate SAM. Ok, now here's the low-down on the Akash Mk-II. The missile will have an intercept range of 30-35 km, or a little over 10-km more than the Mk-I version. Apart from extending range, the Mk-II project mandate will be to increase accuracy of the missile's guidance system and the fire control system, push up the missile's performance, agility, speed, efficiency and accuracy. This will involve tweaking of almost all major systems, including the missile itself, signal processors etc.

Project Akash-II has set itself a deadline of 18 months to begin simulated trials, following which it will begin a routine of development test-firings. While Mk-I cost DRDO Rs 1,000-crore to complete, the Mk-II project has taken a decision not to ask for funds unless it absolutely needs them. An interim feasibility study conducted by the laboratories concerned has shown that scientists are confident of getting the first prototype up and ready on a modest tech-dem budget extended to all follow-on programmes.
...

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2010 07:28

this has got to be one of the biggest SAM orders in the history of SAMs.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10057
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sum » 12 Jun 2010 13:43

While DRDO will be working with French for the short range Low Level Quick Reaction Missile (LLQRM) know has MAITRI , which will have technology developed for Trishul LLQRM TDP (technology Demonstrator Project) and will have range of 8 to 15km and will be used by all three defence forces of India.

Goddamn it... Is the MAITRI alive or dead?

One day, we have it as scrapped and the other day, we hear it equipping all three forces!!!!

Kanson
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3012
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 21:00

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 12 Jun 2010 20:52

Aditya_V wrote:Will they include a seeker in the Missile in Akash-MK-II,


Though there is provision, DRDO made it clear that sporting of any seeker in future versions of Akash solely rests on the requirement from the User. If the User said yes, then they would we working on the seeker for the Akash. Otherwise, no.

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1440
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 14 Jun 2010 02:43

Nag hits a moving target in 3.2 seconds

Test conducted by missile scientists from DRDL

Missile has top-attack capability to defeat armour of modern-day tanks

HYDERABAD: Anti-tank missile Nag on Sunday was successfully test-fired from the Army's Field Firing Range at Shamirpet, near here. This time it hit a moving object. Last Sunday (June 6), it destroyed a stationary target and proved its capability of destroying a target at a close range of 500 metres in three seconds.

This Sunday, Nag smashed the moving target in 3.2 seconds after its launch at 10.30 a.m., a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) official told TheHindu.

The test-firing was conducted by missile scientists from the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) after the Army requested for a close range launch on a moving target. The missile punched a hole as it pierced through the target, which was specially developed by Hyderabad-based Delta Technologies in collaboration with DRDL.

Director of Research Centre Imarat (RCI), S.K. Ray, RCI Associate Director S.K. Chaudhuri, Director of Missile Systems Quality Assurance Agency Commodore S. Patel and other DRDO officials were present.

With the land version of the missile already proving a maximum range of four km in the user trials held in the last two years in Rajasthan, the official said Nag had a higher lock-on before launch (LOBL) range compared to contemporary third generation anti-tank missiles. As the missile is expected to be cleared for induction by the Army after the final validation trials next month, the pre-production process was on at Bharat Dynamics Limited here.

Equipped with an active Imaging Infra-red (IIR) seeker to make it highly accurate, the missile has top-attack capability to defeat the armour of modern-day tanks. The missile carries a highly potent HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) warhead and could be launched during both day and night.

The official said the first flight-test of air-borne version of Nag, called HELINA, was expected to be conducted by the year-end. Having lock-on after launch capability, the air-borne variant would be deployed on Advanced Light Helicopters.

karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 699
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby karan_mc » 14 Jun 2010 06:22

any news on man pad version ?

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 14 Jun 2010 06:57

If Helina has LOAL capaility then there must be a way where Helina and the Operator , the way it would work is it will be in two way communication and once the target is identified from helina seeker by the operator it would simply designate and helina will go in a F&F mode even if the target is moving it will hit it , LOAL is effective against hidden target plus it allows the operator to be in loop for some time.

I do not know why they mention Active IIR seeker in the report it should be passive IIR seeker.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 14 Jun 2010 09:15

does LOAL mean the heli can fire from behind a hill blindly in general direction of enemy and missile will target the first available thing that matches its image library?

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 14 Jun 2010 09:26

Singha wrote:does LOAL mean the heli can fire from behind a hill blindly in general direction of enemy and missile will target the first available thing that matches its image library?


The missile will be fired in the general direction of the target ( beyond operators view ) but the operator will choose the target from Nag IIR sensor in realtime and if he locks at a target/bunker/tank , Nag will autonomously hit the target without operator intervention in F&F mode. Although the LOAL Nag still retains the LOBL capability for LOS target.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2486
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 14 Jun 2010 09:28

I think what is meant here is that the operator (say WSO) is in the loop - i.e. Helina will send real time feed of what it "sees" to the operator. The latter can then assign a target which is sent back to Helina via a 2 way link. After that it would behave as LOBL and home to the target. So, theoretically, it can hit a target behind a hill. From videos of Nag launch, it seems to follow a ballistic trajectory for top-attack. It doesnt seem to have the ability to perform Brahmos-like maneuvering. So, this might involved lobbing Helina over the hill and then deciding a target.

It will be interesting to see what airborne platform will be used to test out Helina - probably a hacked Dhruv-WSI. It will be interesting to see what kind of console will be used to display the real time feed from Helina. A projection on the HMS will be super-cool. Hope they start mass producing it & not wait till the IOC of LCH. There are already 2 platforms ready for it - Dhruv-WSI and Jag.

Yeah - I also noticed the "active" IIR seeker. Must be DDM.

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1966
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 14 Jun 2010 12:11

Do they need to test a first version directly from a chopper?
Or do they use tall communication tower like structures to test fire missiles in initial phases?

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 14 Jun 2010 15:29

karan_mc wrote:any news on man pad version ?

of what ?

Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 14 Jun 2010 16:55

Rahul M wrote:
karan_mc wrote:any news on man pad version ?

of what ?


I think he is actually asking about the shoulder launched variant of NAG which was under talks? but messed it up with man pad.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 14 Jun 2010 18:12

the nag is a heavy anti-tank missile that weighs 42 kg, with launchers and all it will easily go up to 70 kg or more. it CANNOT have a man portable version and such a version was NEVER in planning, the scientists are after all not deranged. this has been mentioned in this thread for about 1000 times, including this time.

lastly, the term is MANPADS, which stands for Man-portable air-defense system.

Samay
BRFite
Posts: 1143
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 02:35
Location: India

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Samay » 14 Jun 2010 18:21

Rahul M wrote:the nag is a heavy anti-tank missile that weighs 42 kg, with launchers and all it will easily go up to 70 kg or more. it CANNOT have a man portable version and such a version was NEVER in planning, the scientists are after all not deranged. this has been mentioned in this thread for about 1000 times, including this time.

lastly, the term is MANPADS, which stands for Man-portable air-defense system.

Rahul ji, do we have any portable ATM in our inventory?,they have their own advantages , considering the fact that namica cant go everywhere . I think there was a old news about purchasing some portable ATMs from Russia and France

A Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 1148
Joined: 20 May 2003 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby A Sharma » 14 Jun 2010 18:24

We have French Milan licensed manufactured by BDL.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 14 Jun 2010 18:27

^^ and the army is reportedly interested in the israeli spike and american javelin.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7730
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 14 Jun 2010 23:01

Samay wrote:Rahul ji, do we have any portable ATM in our inventory?,they have their own advantages , considering the fact that namica cant go everywhere . I think there was a old news about purchasing some portable ATMs from Russia and France


We have recently ordered the Milan-2T (4,100) - the more advanced version of Milan with Tandem Warhead. Plus as Rahul da mentioned, IA is looking for newer ATGM - Americal Javelin and Israel Spike are doing the rounds (but iirc, Spike failed tests in Thar). Plus, IA has ordered 15,000 Konkurs-M (again with tandem warhead). Some 250+ Kornets are also supposed to be in IA service.

vic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2412
Joined: 19 May 2010 10:00

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 15 Jun 2010 00:04

IIRC there was a proposal for Manpotable Nag derivative but there has been no news on it for some time


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/03/25/stories/2005032501700400.htm

Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 15 Jun 2010 00:10

Rahul M wrote:the nag is a heavy anti-tank missile that weighs 42 kg, with launchers and all it will easily go up to 70 kg or more. it CANNOT have a man portable version and such a version was NEVER in planning, the scientists are after all not deranged. this has been mentioned in this thread for about 1000 times, including this time.


Excuse me saar but I came to know about the man portable version under works from this very forum while searching I found the same link which was posted that time when this was being discussed

Added Later :- Link removed as Vic has already posted it

Maybe I missed the news that the idea has been dropped :(

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby krishnan » 15 Jun 2010 12:32

It would be better to upgrade present NAG and go for some proven portable version like javelin or spike and licence produce them here

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54557
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 16 Jun 2010 06:44

Chacko, In the jul08 pdf of the DRDO newsletter there is picture of the LGB with a checker board pattern on the fore fins. One paints pattern like that for visual tracking to see the roll along the axis.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2010 06:51

the flying time of Nag is so short, I doubt there is time for operator to think and designate a suitable target based on IIR feed(?) from the Nag seeker.
maybe in a longer range or duration weapon like hermes or air launched maverick there is a few seconds.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2486
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 16 Jun 2010 08:39

Helina is supposed to be a 7 KM range missile. Nag speed is 230 m/s per Wiki. That gives a flight time of 30 seconds. Not a very long duration but enough to pick a target.

In comparison, ASRAAM - a short range A2A missile pulling Mach 3 and an engagement range of 300 m - 18 km also has LOAL capability. At Mach 3, the flight time for max range is only 17 seconds

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 16 Jun 2010 08:44

Sagar G wrote:
Rahul M wrote:the nag is a heavy anti-tank missile that weighs 42 kg, with launchers and all it will easily go up to 70 kg or more. it CANNOT have a man portable version and such a version was NEVER in planning, the scientists are after all not deranged. this has been mentioned in this thread for about 1000 times, including this time.


Excuse me saar but I came to know about the man portable version under works from this very forum while searching I found the same link which was posted that time when this was being discussed

Added Later :- Link removed as Vic has already posted it

Maybe I missed the news that the idea has been dropped :(

as you can see even that report talks of the man-portable version at less than 14kg's, a third of the nag's weight. calling it a 'version' of the nag is seriously misleading, few of the nag sub-systems can be directly lifted and incorporated in this missile, the nag seeker for example would be too large for a small ATGM. if we do run such a project it will be a new missile for all practical purposes.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2010 09:05

asraam wouldnt need any operator input for LOAL, its seeker will do it independently.
though Helina has a range of 7km by design, the 30 sec is true for only for engagement at extreme range. if a shot is fired at an area 4km away, the
time is halved.

I am thinking the seeker might itself be programed to reject burning targets and home in on tank and IFV shapes as a priority over truck/jeep shapes in that mode without operator input (the priority mode could even be electronically settable by gunner just before firing) - true F&F albeit its iffy what exactly it will hit in a area swarming with targets. its likely useful to defeat massed attacks, wherein you want to take out as many targets of any hue (mostly tanks will be in the forward echelon) and dont have the time to individually designate targets...so fire off 4-6 missiles in the general direction in salvo and let the seekers sort them out. a small squad of 4 LCH could unleash perhaps 4 x 8 = 32 Helinas on a attacking line of tanks and if the seekers are good, cause a fair amt of attrition.

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8239
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 16 Jun 2010 09:19

Now that the NAG has been tested and is on the verg of active service. The DRDO and the accociated labs should start work n the following systems. JINGO wish list/

1) Light weight ATGM using NAG seeker. In the javilin class.
2) Heavy weight air launched missel in mavrick class using the seeker developed for HELINA. Once that project is complete.

Folks are free to add their wishlists

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54557
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 16 Jun 2010 09:41

You need to specify it opearational role what pain it is expected to relieve?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2010 09:51

wrt 2) it would be our equivalent of the Brimstone derivative of hellfire that UK developed for tornado delivery. a fighter having the advantage of height and speed, fires the brimstone to around 15km iirc. and the tornado carries 12. it also flies faster, farther and more survivable than helicopter gunships hence acts as a swift responder in the ATGM role to supplement dedicated gunships.

http://www.janes.com/events/exhibitions ... x/a492.jpg
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... GR1_lg.jpg

the other selling point is brimstone armed fighters can easily operate at altitudes and places wherein a gunship has issues like Ladakh or north sikkim. there is no gunship which can sortie from 500km away with 12 atgms, reach onsite @ mach1 and operate at altitudes of 25000ft to defeat armour in the high tibetan areas.

wrt 1) we need a F&F manportable atgm. javelin wont be cheap. and we would have to pay heavily for each follow-on. better to start our own line
of products in that niche and control our destiny.

on brimstone:
The missile's advanced sensor package includes its millimetric wave radar (MMW), which allows the weapon to image the target, thus finding the most effective location on the target to impact. The bandwidth of the MMW radar also makes it less susceptible to inclement weather. With as many as twenty-four missiles in the air, the missile's targeting system also required an algorithm to ensure that missiles impact their targets in a staggered order, rather than all simultaneously. In addition to the semi-autonomous ability to decide its own targets, the Brimstone has the capacity to determine where on a target to best impact causing the most damage or resulting in elimination of the target.


in Ahuja sir's scenario imagine what half a squadron of Tejas armed with such a weapon (12 each) could do? a typhoon can theoritically carry 24
per wiki on 8 triple pylons. a couple of rounds and the back of the chinese divisional MSR to DBG could be broken :evil:

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8239
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 16 Jun 2010 10:16

ramana wrote:You need to specify it opearational role what pain it is expected to relieve?


I presume that this post was addressed to me. 8)

The roles I envisig for the weapons will be to Suppliment Milan for Light ATGM role.

For the heavy weapon as an autonomus bunker buster to kill well defended strong points and radar stations and other set of tragets for whome the HELINA warhead will be too small. But the need is to have an acurate Fire and forget weapon for them. The same way the mavrik(SP) does. The platform to use them can be any old cobat aircraft of the IAF.

I dont really know if the IAF has a requirement for the above. But I do know that the IA has requested information on Javelin. I feel that the NAG should give the DRDO enough confidence to Develop the javelin equivelent in a short period of time.

JMT.

kvraghavaiah
BRFite
Posts: 126
Joined: 16 Feb 2008 17:20
Location: Chennai
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby kvraghavaiah » 16 Jun 2010 19:03

I have some questions and curiosity to know a few things about SAMs. GURUs here please clarify.

1. What is the need of semi active or active RADAR homing in medium or long range SAMs.
Does it give better target tracking accuracy considering the distance between main RADAR and target(SAM will be realtively near to target after launch).

2. Why cant INDIA use SAM homing RADARs bought from russia or Europe instaed of going for joint collaboration with Israel for BARAK-2 (mostly for homing RADARS) and waste our money. As I remember, homing RADARs of PAD and AAD and ASTRA were bought from Russia.

3. Is Akash-2 going to have any homing radar? Are they going to extend range with an enhanced ramjet rocket or a normal rocket. Any speed improvements in Akask-2? Any height of reach improvements? (18 KM is not enough. F-22 reaches to 20 km and a fighter fitted with extra solid rockets may reach to 25 km height. Who knows if Rocket booster implementation is alredy known to rivals)

4. What is the status of Mitri project? or any other quick reaction short range SAM project running now?

nishu
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 62
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 19:49

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby nishu » 16 Jun 2010 19:15

(18 KM is not enough. F-22 reaches to 20 km and a fighter fitted with extra solid rockets may reach to 25 km height. Who knows if Rocket booster implementation is alredy known to rivals)


just one question how do you plane to fit extra solid rockets to a fighter :shock:

kvraghavaiah
BRFite
Posts: 126
Joined: 16 Feb 2008 17:20
Location: Chennai
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby kvraghavaiah » 16 Jun 2010 19:36

nishu wrote:
(18 KM is not enough. F-22 reaches to 20 km and a fighter fitted with extra solid rockets may reach to 25 km height. Who knows if Rocket booster implementation is alredy known to rivals)


just one question how do you plane to fit extra solid rockets to a fighter :shock:


many strategic technologies need not be well known to all. An aircrafts speed can be boosted with extra rocket boosters, in time of need (for escaping anti aircraft missiles with speed or height of fly) :idea: :)

Fitting a rocket booster is not a complex technology.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 16 Jun 2010 20:34

nukavarapu wrote:
kvraghavaiah wrote:Fitting a rocket booster is not a complex technology.


Yes its not, but its definitely not the most efficient way. We have the afterburner precisely for this reason. An engine with a good bypass ratio, thrust to weight ratio and a good afterburner can match if not supersede a rocket booster. Rocket boosters need special fuel too. If you use a booster rocket with the same aviation fuel, is definitely not gonna be efficient and eat up the reserve. Having two types of fuel, one for the main engine and another for booster would be really dumb. If we still come up with a very innovative way of using a rocket booster, would the airframe be able to cope? I am not saying that it will fall apart but it will definitely decrease the life of the airframe.


Typically rocket boosters are fitted to the airframe as a separate attachment - usually on the side of the fuselage. They can be jettisoned after take off. They have been used for decades - even by Indian aircraft to assist take off in short and/or high airfields. It is called RATO (Rocket Assisted Take Off)
Image


Return to “Mil-Tech Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests