Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

[Venkarl]

Yes Sir.....I should have been more clear in prev post...sorry.

[ajit_tr]

Rajapaksa wriggles from India's grasp
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - India and Sri Lanka signed an array of agreements across areas including security, power, railways, rehabilitation and cultural exchanges during Sri Lanka President Mahinda Rajapaksa's visit this week.

The Indian government rolled out the red carpet for the Sri Lankan leader in Delhi. This was even as the visit was marked by black-flag demonstrations in Tamil Nadu and other southern Indian states, where anger against the Rajapaksa government's conduct during the war against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) and the high civilian casualties - especially in the final phases of the war - last year is still high.

Rajapaksa's visit saw the two sides agree to institute an annual defense dialogue and increase high-level military exchanges.

[chetak]

Rajapaksa wriggles from India's grasp
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - India and Sri Lanka signed an array of agreements across areas including security, power, railways, rehabilitation and cultural exchanges during Sri Lanka President Mahinda Rajapaksa's visit this week.

The Indian government rolled out the red carpet for the Sri Lankan leader in Delhi. This was even as the visit was marked by black-flag demonstrations in Tamil Nadu and other southern Indian states, where anger against the Rajapaksa government's conduct during the war against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) and the high civilian casualties - especially in the final phases of the war - last year is still high.

Rajapaksa's visit saw the two sides agree to institute an annual defense dialogue and increase high-level military exchanges.

Also.

Sure, why not?


“No Big Brother, but perhaps like its little sister.” —Sri Lanka’s President Mahinda Rajapaksa says India has a “duty to look after Sri Lanka”, but not in an overbearing fashion.

[Sanku]

sankass..

wondered what wrong sankuji had done... ...prev page made things clear.

Yes and to beat it all he issued me a proper formal warning for calling, Col Shukla one.


(I had not misspelt though )

[Stan_Savljevic]

The first "new" trouble actually started in '81, JR sabotaging the Disrict Council elections and minor disturbances at that time,which was a foretaste for the future ('83).

Good lord, others dont have the internets unfortunately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riots_in_Sri_Lanka
The least common denominator in all riots has been pro-buddhist assertion followed by arson, violence and pillage of the worst kind. Now, where is Kashyap ready to do the customary == shite?

One must remember the corrosive effect of the Cold War at that time,where the island was host to the machinations of both East and West.

Rather than blaming the east and the west for "machinations" on boor, innocent SL, one should put the blame firmly on GoSL's foot for its love affair first with the brits where katunayake and trikonamalai were vested, then for the shoving off the brits from the SL shores, followed by throwing off the burghers and anglo-peoples, and followed by an extensive love affair with the commie thugs from the erstwhile ussr and china, which was engendered by the extreme pro-buddhist swings of the two frontline parties, and as a consequence saw all kindsa socialist, communist and trotskyist rubbish in the island, followed by a game of equidistancing with the soviets and love for the amrikans, followed by more love for the ace up their arse. Today SL plays the china game against India. Yesterday it played the soviet game against usa in the same backyard. So who the eff are to blame for the mess: the SLankans themselves or the east and the west? One can smell a skewed version of history from a long distance.

... and also allegedly to infiltrate India through the back door stirring up southern separatist tendencies,amply borne out by the support for the LTTE by foreign powers and vested interests in TN.This was why Mrs.G did not want the Lankan crisis to spread to TN and supported the Tamil "militants" at that time,to put pressure upon JRJ to come to a political settlement,sending G.Parthasarathy,veteran diplomat to assist the Lankans.

The goras, in particular amrikan and spanish EJs, attempts' at conversion in S. India especially centered around Anantapur district today and much earlier in TN are well-known. Southern "separatist" tendencies died almost completely with CNA's claiming the throne in 67 and following the 62 war. LTTE was a pawn used by the goras and the goras were used extensively by the LTTE, it was a 2-way back-scratching fest. The LTTE did not start off as a gora pawn, especially during IG days. The early days of TULF, PLOTE, TELO, EPDP, EPRLF and LTTE were far more Tamil-centric (and needless to say internecine) than gora-pawnish. In fact, it is a well-known fact that LTTE was one of those extremely disciplined, ruthless to the core and self-sacrificing organizations, which explains why they trumped the SLA and IPKF for so long. There are enough books on how the early days of LTTE in Madras began and ended with rice gruel. Hardly something that can be said by watching VP's blasted off head and of the fat-ass son of his. Plus, the LTTE were far better at getting HR bimbettes to sing for them, unlike the IA. EJism in LTTE may have increased following the entry of Anton Balasingham, which can safely be claimed to be the post-83 era. IG's actions might have had little to do with TN. IG was in alliance with MGR post-Morarji Desai and post-Charan Singh days and Kandy-man got a free pass to dance with the wolves at home. In fact, MGR was a good reason why VP refused to accede to the IPKF in the first place, before Shri JND bulldozed the LTTE in Jaffna.

It is often a fancy to blame "southern separatist tendencies" for anything that passes muster, but truly the days of DK are history. Separatist tendencies in TN were never that high to start with, linguistic grievances were. The goras may have realized this or otherwise, but in Philip's thaparite world, let the games begin.

After Mrs.G's death,Rajiv was ill advised to broker a peace settlement by guaranteeing the de-militarisation of the LTTE through the IPKF.

The very same RG was the harbinger of the Longowal accord, the Assam accord, the Mizo accord, Tripura cooling down, GNLF freeze, sending troops to Maldives and the IPKF mission. Certainly, if a picture of RG can be obtained, it is that he was a man on his own terms. I have no love lost for RG or his family, but to put the onus of the Indo-SL accord on some "ill-advise" which could only mean that of Shri. JND is not only preposterous of Shri. JND's advise (if true), and of Shri. RG's contributions, which are far more immense than credited for.

The "Tamils" of Lanka,must be categorised as pro-LTTE "Jaffna Tamils",who have little truck wiht the other Tamil groups in the island who are of more recent Indian origin.This fact has been lost for decades upon the northern dominated babudom in Delhi,never understood in all our dealings with Lanka,which a veteran diplomat confided to me not too long ago.

Another one of those claymore mines that fail to pass the credibility test.

[Prem]

India to engage SL Tamil parties on ethnic solution: Report

India [ Images ] plans to directly invite Sri Lankan ethnic parties, including the pro-Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam Tamil National Alliance, for parleys to resolve the Tamil issue in the country, a media report has claimed, prompting the main opposition party to seek a clarification from the Mahinda Rajapaksa [ Images ] government. News website Asian Tribune.com has claimed that India will be directly inviting Sri Lankan Tamil political parties to New Delhi [ Images ] for one-on-one talks. "There is a talk that India will invite minority and minor parties for discussions on the Tamil issue. We are hopeful of such meetings but so far no parties have got any invitation in this regard," a leader of a Muslim party told PTI on condition of anonymity."It is also reported that top officials in New Delhi are now preparing to draft reform proposals based on the findings from these discussions. They will thereafter present them to Colombo," the Asian Tribune said. Reports from Delhi said that the main reason for the direct invitations is the continuous delay on the side of Colombo to produce solutions for Tamil grievances despite the end of war for more than a year, it is learnt, it said. "The invites for discussions will be directly extended to all ethnic minority parties in Colombo. They will made after the official visit of Lanka President Mahinda Rajapakse [ Images ] to New Delhi concludes," the website said

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jun/ ... report.htm

[Stan_Savljevic]

but is nt asian tribune an ltte outlet? how to believe news posted by asian tribune?

[Kashyap]

'Pro-LTTE' elements blast rail track, passengers safe

STAFF WRITER 8:47 HRS IST

Chennai, June 12 (PTI) Passengers of the Tiruchirapalli-Chennai Rockfort Express had a narrow escape when suspected pro-LTTE elements blasted railway tracks at Perani railway station in Villupuram district in the wee hours today.

About three feet of tracks were blown off in the explosion when the train was coming towards the station at around 2:10 am. The station cautioned the driver of the train, who applied emergency brakes averting a major train disaster, police and railway sources said.

Leaflets condemning the visit of Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa were found from the spot, police said.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/710197_-Pro ... ngers-safe


Vice Premier of Chinese State Council arrives in Sri Lanka

Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 08:57 am SL Time, ColomboPage News Desk, Sri Lanka.

Jun 11, Colombo: A current Vice Premier and a prominent leader of government of China, Zhang Dejiang arrived in Sri Lanka Thursday night on a three-day official visit from the 10th to 12th June 2010.

Vice Premier Dejiang is here on an invitation extended to him by the Sri Lankan Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne. The two countries are seeking to enhance bilateral economic ties.

http://www.colombopage.com/archive_10A/ ... 6861CH.php


Sri Lanka to sign trade deals with China: official

June 11, 2010 (AFP) - Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang will hold talks with Sri Lanka's president at the weekend and sign several trade and economic deals, the island's foreign ministry said Friday.

Zhang arrived in Sri Lanka on Thursday accompanied by a 30-member delegation and was moving to strengthen bilateral cooperation during their three-day visit, the ministry said.

"Sri Lanka and China will sign a number of agreements and MoUs (memorandums of understanding) relating to the fields of information technology, maritime ports, economic and technical cooperation," the ministry said without giving details.

http://www.lankabusinessonline.com/full ... 2087905174

Sri Lanka, China vow to enhance cooperation

Sri Lankan Prime Minister D. M. Jayaratne and the visiting Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang stressed here on Friday to enhance the two friendly nations' cooperation in a wide range of areas including economy, education, culture and international affairs.

Jayaratne told Zhang that Sri Lanka's economy has been greatly benefited by some mega-projects funded by China in recent years. He also expressed his gratitude to China's participation in Sri Lanka's economic rebuilding after the conclusion of a 30-year-old civil war.

The Sri Lanka prime minister said Sri Lanka treasures the friendship between the two countries and unswervingly supports China on issues of her core interests.

http://english.cpc.people.com.cn/66102/7023244.html

[Kashyap]

jeez where did you go to get your debating skills

Yes we armed the LTTE - a mistake in execution (even though your politicians callously treated the Tamils) we tried to right and paid in blood

Um... You didn't do anything. The government of India under Indira Gandhi and then Rajiv Gandhi did. You're just someone sitting at the end of a computer talking big on the internet. Nothing new there though. I think the term is 'keyboard warrior.' It's silly to use the term "we" unless all of India somehow voted you in as their sole representative, which I don't think has happened.

Perhaps its time to look in the mirror and see how India treats its minorities... last I heard there was a pogrom against Christians and discriminatory anti-conversion laws enacted in several states by right-wing Hindu groups. The callous treatment of Muslims, Dalits, residents of the North East, etc etc Point being, India has its own share of anti-minority behaviour.

but even after we stopped arming - for years the SLA could do didly squat and in fact was almost overrun and needed the IAF to be put on alert for bombing runs to prevent your garrisons from completely collapsing. Ask me - my friend made recce runs for that task.

You as an individual didn't do any arming. But your friend's "recce runs" wouldn't have been needed if India didn't arm, train and fund the LTTE. And as I see it, the IPKF didn't do diddly squat either, except loosing some 1200 soldiers. Kinda like how the Americans are dying in Afghanistan fighting groups that their government funded once upon a time. I see a lot of finger pointing and cries of outrage directed at Pakistan for sponsoring "cross border terrorism" though.

Regarding our insurgencies - well we are not in the business of whole sale assault and we are not an island where a foreign navy helped you to choke the arms supply

As for your China card - please go ahead and play it - see what happens. Go on - I beg you to play it

Well let's see how India defeats its multiple insurgencies since you seem to believe that India was instrumental in defeating the LTTE and poor little Sri Lanka couldn't have done anything. But I don't see much success anywhere except in Punjab with the Khalistani movement - and I would classify the massacre of Sikhs and the attack on the Golden Temple as a wholesale assault (but you may have a different interpretation there). And please see the above links in the post above... Sri Lanka is playing the China card quite well, don't you worry about that As I see it, the rise of China is a blessing for India's neighbours; it has forced India to sit up and take notice of its smaller neighbours. But as I have mentioned earlier, China's influence in Sri Lanka has grown only because of India's policy decisions.

[Kashyap]

Kashyap, go read about your country's history in any journal archive such as jstor before pontificating and throwing ==s on India and your lahore friends, who bombed the eff out of your crikkit team. The slfp and the unp in its various forms funded sinhalese extremists and terrorists such as JVP and its earlier forms, before launching a full-frontal attack to annihilate them when the JVP grew too big for their boots. The very same Mahinda Rajapakse was one of those sinhalese extremists in his earlier days "protecting" Buddhist and neo-Buddhist interests by arson and violence. The 1983 pogroms against the Tamils was a genocide committed by the sinhalese on the Tamils. Neither has there been a truth and reconciliation on this sordid saga, nor has it been accepted by the sinhalese that they ever committed a genocide on the Tamils, almost all of whom batted for SL against India when such a choice came to the fore. Why did the Burghers and the anglo-origin-people leave your country in such mass numbers if SL was such a paragon of beauty? What was the reason for Junius Jayewardene's conversion to Buddhism? I can posit that only pedophiles such as arthur clarke can claim SL to be a safe haven, that is how brazen your country's violations and records has been on anyone who has asserted his non-Buddhist credentials.

India will support the Tamils if their rights are discarded into the trash-can by any community, be it the sinhalese or the timbuktoo-ans. If such a situation arose for the sinhalese in the hands of your comrade-in-arms the chinis, India will still support the sinhalese and arm them to fight for their genuine rights. If you bring in religion-based fundamentalist logic like the pakis do, you shall find rejoicement only in the ace that is up your derriere, viz. the chinis. Best of luck. And surely, no sensible, rational and constitutionally-minded Indian would want a racist, genocidal, religious-supremacist subset of the population in the form of extremist sinhalese in our midst. We have enough nutjobs already. The first and core maxim towards being embraced by India should be religious equality as enshrined in the Indian Constitution. Short of that, have fun and stick where your country is, stick with your bigoted newly-minted Constitution, let us be the neighbors that we are and move on. If shit came to shove, Hambantota would be debris and thats a fact that the chinis well-know and so do those that matter in SL. As for the sinhalese nutjobs who rejoice in chini warmth, best of luck.

Thank you for sharing you thoughts. Clearly you have strong feelings over several issues. But why not first clean up Tamil Nadu and Tamil extremism before pointing fingers at others? That way you would have some credibility when you speak against extremism. The Tamil community have given more suicide bombers to the world than the more than 1 billion Muslims. So should I assume that Tamil Hindus aren't following their religion? Tamils are the only non-Muslim group on the subcontinent to give Islamists a run for their money when it comes to human bombs. And I have yet to see a more backward group of political leaders than the current ones of Tamil Nadu. But perhaps this is what happens when movie stars are voted into power. Why not get them to stop fanning Tamil chauvinism? Whether it it is hatred for North Indians, the Hindi language, attacks on Kannadigas and Karnataka, hate speech on Kerala and the Mullaperiyar Dam issue, hatred towards Brahmins, support for the LTTE and hate speech against the Sinhalese, inter-caste clashes, Tamil linguistic chauvinism, the list goes on. Tamil Nadu and Tamils have their own share of extremism and bigotry and despite your finger wagging at Sri Lanka I don't think other Indians are going to support that either. Indeed, the current Indian government has steadfastly refused to bow down to Tamil extremism.

And Sri Lanka has a better record of religious harmony than does India. India's politics are mired in religion, religious pogroms and religious hostility. This is not the case in Sri Lanka. On ethnic relations though, India has done far better job than Sri Lanka.

Finally, whether you like it or not, it is up to Sri Lankans to decide what their constitution will be. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not because you are not a Sri Lankan citizen. Ranting and raving is not going to change this fact or the fact that Sri Lanka is a separate, sovereign country.

[RajeshA]

Ah the propaganda wars of our dear little neighbors!

Eating and enjoying their own puke, day in and day out, not knowing that it is hardly the basis of a nutritional diet! Bharat will keep on eating 'growth' and getting big, and our dear neighbors would just get squashed under our huge bum and we will not even notice!

Bon appetit!

[Kashyap]

Yeah! Sri Lankan Navy mysteriously and out of blue discovered those floating LTTE arms depots....way out in the Indian Ocean. And iirc, they had to tow one of their OPV to sink one of these floating arms depot - which was located somewhere off the coast of Australia

All these happened towards the end of the war when India decided to actually help out. And not all of the intelligence was from India. Assuming that it was all Indian intelligence does that mean for the past 15 odd years Indian intelligence had no clue about LTTE arms shipments in the Indian Ocean? Is that why they got through? But during the last 2 years, Indian intelligence suddenly upped their game?

Truth is, India was quite happy with a low intensity conflict rumbling along in Sri Lanka all these years, but jumped on the bandwagon when it saw the LTTE was getting defeated. China and Pakistan, however, were always on the bandwagon. Having weak neighbours is in India's interest so India can consolidate its position as the regional power. The only problem is when it gets really unstable and threatens to spill over into India - like the case with Pakistan. The LTTE was something that India used as leverage over Sri Lanka, let's not pretend otherwise.

[Kashyap]

There is another country that thinks of terrorists as "strategic assets" and I can see its implications on them. I am glad Bharat doesn't.

I agree here. I think the Indian government thinks differently now than it did before. It is of benefit to India's neighbours and India itself as things like this have a habit of turning around. Eg the LTTE, Taliban.

[Kashyap]

There is another country that thinks of terrorists as "strategic assets" and I can see its implications on them. I am glad Bharat doesn't.

Our "strategic assets" were tamils (Didn't we use it earlier when we needed it?) and it was destroyed pretty nicely and violently (with our own help -- we are soooo proud of it) in the early/mid 2009. Just one year passed and you can see how the Sinhalese started changing their tune. Wait for few more years for the full implication of that destruction

The LTTE destroyed Sri Lankan Tamils from within and did a "darn good job" of it. I don't think anyone can replicate the damage that the LTTE did to the Sri Lankan Tamil community over the years.

[Stan_Savljevic]

Clearly you have strong feelings over several issues. But why not first clean up Tamil Nadu and Tamil extremism before pointing fingers at others? That way you would have some credibility when you speak against extremism.

Obviously it is easy to tackle historical facts by hifalutin anglais than it is by presenting an opposition viewpoint. Please learn to debate facts with facts, history with history, not with english. Unfortunately, this forum has a lot of verbiage and taking the wrong lessons will not help in debating.

The Tamil community have given more suicide bombers to the world than the more than 1 billion Muslims. They are the only non-Muslim group on the subcontinent to give Islamists a run for their money.

Coming so much from a Sinhalese viewpoint with its bigoted pogroms on not only the Tamils, but also the Muslims (who also speak Tamil), that should be classified as rich. Arson, pillage and violence of the buddhist kind is not only common in sri lanka, but the burmans (with whom you share the Theravada faith) on the Kachins, Shans, Chins, the vietnamese against the cambodians and the laos, the thais against malay muslims in South Thailand and the cambodians, and of course, needless to say the north koreans against the predominantly (today) Christian-south. Of course, suicide bombing captures much publicity, but violence of the gun kind is not too far off, no?! Or is this Kashyap's logic of the third kind?!

And I have yet to see a more backward group of political leaders than the current ones of Tamil Nadu.

And yet, the more forward Sinhalese leadership constantly whines about the hold of this backward group on GoI. How come a backward group holds more power on the GoI than a supposedly forward elite bunch (of which the sri lankans may be a part of)?

But perhaps this is what happens when movie stars are voted into power.

Perhaps someone has forgotten that mahinda rajapakse himself was an actor to start with. How come the forward Sri Lankans follow the tactics of the backward Tamil Nadu folks?!

Why not get them to stop fanning Tamil chauvinism? Whether it it is hatred for North Indians, the Hindi language, attacks on Kannadigas and Karnataka, hate speech on Kerala and the Mullaperiyar Dam issue, hatred towards Brahmins, support for the LTTE and hate speech against the Sinhalese, inter-caste clashes etc. the list goes on.

Tamils have a strong linguistic pride and any idiot who interferes with that, whether it be from inside India or outside gets the treatment their idiocy deserves. Regarding attacks on Kannadigas, 50% of Bangalore is essentially Tamil, and we hardly hear of Tamil-Kannadiga internecine warfare a la the Sinhalese-Tamil kind in SL. Regarding Mullaiperiyar dam, it is an inter-state issue with a tribunal appointed to arbitrate on it. There is more than TN-KL in India where inter-state issues have to go all the way to a tribunal and need arbitration. Punjab and Haryana fight over Chandigarh, Assam and Meghalaya over Langpih/Lampi and so on. None of which takes away the fact that neither KL or TN started a civil war on this count. Inter-caste clashes coming from supposedly caste-less buddhists, with their anglicized rape class is also rich.

Tamil Nadu and Tamils have their own share of extremism and bigotry and despite your finger wagging at Sri lanka I don't think other Indians are going to support that either.

Thank you about your prognosis on what other Indians think of TN and Tamil, but noone cares about that. The issue is one of where SL stands in terms of foreign policy, or the lack of one. The issue is one of how SL will get its ass kicked yet again, if it chooses to play china, just as it had in the past often enough. Karma is a bitch and sooner than you think, it will come back to bite you. Fortunately, some of the diplomats that run your country are more intelligible than the aam-aadmi Sinhalese chauvinist keyboard jehadi, exemplified by you.

And Sri Lanka has a better record of religious harmony than does India. India's politics are mired in religion, religious pogroms and religious hostility. This is not the case in Sri Lanka.

Amusing that you should say that. A Constitution that holds the sacrosanctness of the buddhist sasanas and which had been regularly discriminating against one ethnic group because they speak a different language and practice a different religion has a better record of religious harmony?! The last time I checked, India was still a secular democracy with no codified violations of other people's religious rights and fundamental freedoms. Coming from a police-state such as SL where the Executive Presidency has more power than an army dictator could wield in pakistan is certainly not new on brf, but surely amusing.

Finally, whether you like it or not, it is up to Sri Lankans to decide what their constitution will be. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not because you are not a Sri Lankan citizen. Ranting and raving is not going to change this fact.

Yes, and calling a bigoted constitution as trash is also my right. So shove that, a citizen of a religious nut country.

[Kashyap]

See.. this is the problem with majority of the Indians here. They think the issue started with LTTE or with with "Singala only" act etc. The conflict has much deeper root than this. The issue didn't start with SL's Independence. It is a 2000+ year old conflict, much older than the Hindu-Muslim conflict.. and TN always had hidden or direct hand in it. As long as TN is part of India, Singalesh are not going to trust India and going to play China card and as long as tamils are there and singalesh thing that Island belongs to Singalesh only, TN is not going to stand in the sideline and watch the slaughter. This is trick situation for India. There is no black and white solution for it. How do you deal with that?

Interesting points and I agree with some of them. I do agree that Sri Lanka will always look at India with some degree of suspicion not only because of India's past support of the LTTE, but because of the Tamil lobby (ie Tamil Nadu) which can influence Indian policy towards Sri Lanka. This is fostered everytime Tamil Nadu politicians go on with their very public anti-Sri Lankan posturing. The latest was the boycott call for the IIFA. I have said many times in the past that Indo-Lankan relations will not reach their fulfillment as long as Tamil Nadu has a say over Indian policy towards the island. I think that if it wasn't for the Tamil Nadu factor, India and Sri Lanka would be bosom buddies and Sri Lanka would be in all respects another state of India. China, on the other hand, doesn't have this Tamil factor and is thus looked upon as a safe option. But I think the current Indian administration has done well in balancing out their policy towards SL.

[RajeshA]

There are four types of grass:

a) The most intelligent type is the grass which grows exactly where the elephants empty their bowels daily. The manure is good for growth. Countries like Holland and Hong Kong understand this well.

b) The most secure type is the grass which grows far away from all elephants. The Kiwis benefit from such a blessing fortune.

c) The wisest type is the grass which accepts its fate of being eaten up by one of the elephants and becoming a part of the elephant's body and soul, and contributing to the elephant's strength. The trick is deciding which elephant has the best digestion. Puerto Rico made the right choice.

d) The most stupid type is the grass which invites two elephants for a wrestling match on top of it, and is full of glee that the elephants might get injured. A lot of this type grows in our neighborhood.

[rohitvats]

<SNIP>

d) The most stupid type is the grass which invites two elephants for a wrestling match on top of it, and is full of glee that the elephants might get injured. A lot of this type grows in our neighborhood.

[Kashyap]

Obviously it is easy to tackle historical facts by hifalutin anglais than it is by presenting an opposition viewpoint. Please learn to debate facts with facts, history with history, not with english. Unfortunately, this forum has a lot of verbiage and taking the wrong lessons will not help in debating.

Thanks for your advice.

Coming so much from a Sinhalese viewpoint with its bigoted pogroms on not only the Tamils, but also the Muslims (who also speak Tamil), that should be classified as rich. Arson, pillage and violence of the buddhist kind is not only common in sri lanka, but the burmans (with whom you share the Theravada faith) on the Kachins, Shans, Chins, the vietnamese against the cambodians and the laos, the thais against malay muslims in South Thailand and the cambodians, and of course, needless to say the north koreans against the predominantly (today) Christian-south. Of course, suicide bombing captures much publicity, but violence of the gun kind is not too far off, no?! Or is this Kashyap's logic of the third kind?!

Actually the Sinhalese and the Muslims get on quite well. There has only really been one major riot between the two groups and that was way back in 1915. In some respects it is strange how the Sinhalese and the Muslims get on well together, seeing as the two groups are nowhere as culturally similar as the Sinhalese and Tamil communities are. Despite being Tamil speaking, the Muslims of Sri Lanka are well integrated into the mainstream. Besides having their own political parties they make up sizeable sections of the main political parties as well. Infact I feel that Muslims along with the Indian-origin "plantation" Tamils are a model minority. Relations between the Muslims and Tamils, however, haven't been so rosy especially since the arrival of the LTTE. The Muslims were ethnically cleasned from the northern province and faced attacks in the east.

But the fact reamins that Tamils are the only subcontinental non-Muslim community who have provided suicide bombers to the world, and we are not talking minor here. There are more than 1 billion Muslims and some 55 million Tamils, yet the Tamil community have provided more suicide bombers to the world than the more than 1 billion Muslims. If you want to be even more exact, some 3 million Sri Lankn Tamils have provided more suicide bombers than the more than 1 billion Muslims the world over, including pioneering suicide bras, and the use of pregnant women as suicide bombers. Yet you point fingers at others on extremism.

Tamils created and ran a terrorist group that is banned in India, US, UK, EU, Malaysia etc and the FBI called it one of the most deadliest terror groups in the world. Tamil terrorists were the only ones who have succeded in killing two heads of states. Even Pakistani terror groups have not tasted that much success, although I am sure would dearly love to assasinate Mr Manmohan Singh.

So it would seem that Tamil Hindus are putting the peaceful Hindu community and philosophy to shame? Using your logic here.

Kudos to you for trying to spin this into a Buddhist vs Hindu thing.

And yet, the more forward Sinhalese leadership constantly whines about the hold of this backward group on GoI. How come a backward group holds more power on the GoI than a supposedly forward elite bunch (of which the sri lankans may be a part of)?

I'll be honest, the relatively small Sri Lankan Tamil community has given far, far more enlightened Tamil politicians than has Tamil Nadu. Sarath Fonseka was right when he called Tamil Nadu politicians "a bunch of jokers." Lakshman Kadirgamar was aeons ahead of the Tamil Nadu leaders. Sometimes I can see why some Sri Lankan Tamils generally feel as if they are superior to Indian Tamils.

The backward group of politicians in Tamil Nadu have a hold on the GOI because they formed part of the coalition that was keeping the currrent administration in power. They have a hold on the GOI because they control one of India's most populous states. They have a hold because they threaten to turn Tamil Nadu "into another Kashmir" if their demands aren't met.

Perhaps someone has forgotten that mahinda rajapakse himself was an actor to start with. How come the forward Sri Lankans follow the tactics of the backward Tamil Nadu folks?!

How many Sri Lankans know this? Which movies? Does anyone even know? What about Chandrika, Ranil, Premadasa, DS Senanayake, Wijetunga, the two Bandaranaikes? How many temples are built for movie stars in Sri Lanka? How many are there in Tamil Nadu?

Tamils have a strong linguistic pride and any idiot who interferes with that, whether it be from inside India or outside gets the treatment their idiocy deserves. Regarding attacks on Kannadigas, 50% of Bangalore is essentially Tamil, and we hardly hear of Tamil-Kannadiga internecine warfare a la the Sinhalese-Tamil kind in SL. Regarding Mullaiperiyar dam, it is an inter-state issue with a tribunal appointed to arbitrate on it. There is more than TN-KL in India where inter-state issues have to go all the way to a tribunal and need arbitration. Punjab and Haryana fight over Chandigarh, Assam and Meghalaya over Langpih/Lampi and so on. None of which takes away the fact that neither KL or TN started a civil war on this count. Inter-caste clashes coming from supposedly caste-less buddhists, with their anglicized rape class is also rich.

Oh so its "linguistic pride" for Tamils but linguistic chauvinism for anyone else? Let me rephrase your reply:

"Sinhalese have a strong linguistic pride and any idiot who interferes with that, whether it be from inside Sri Lanka or outside gets the treatment their idiocy deserves."

or

"Sinhalese have a strong ethnic pride and any idiot who interferes with that, whether it be from inside Sri Lanka or outside gets the treatment their idiocy deserves."

You should have no problem with these statements then.

You have been railing against Hindi on this board previously. The fact that you attempt to try and explain away Tamil extremism in your post just goes to show that it is an issue. Tamil Nadu has been one state that has run a hate campaign against Hindi and which refused to really accept Hindi. Many of the issues in Tamil Nadu are made into hate campaigns and an enemy is seen everywhere. Hating on Sri Lanka and the Sinhalese is just one aspect of this. Next it will be the dam issue again and hating on Malayalis. Or the "evil" Brahmins and how they are leeching everything in Tamil Nadu. Even now there is hate speech against Malayalis "siding" with the Sinhalese and "sabotaging Tamils" since Nirupama Rao, Shashi Tharoor and MK Narayanan are all Malayalis. What I am saying is that Tamils have their own issues with racism, bigotry and linguistic chauvinism. Besides that, Tamil Nadu also has other issues ... such as female infanticide, and keeping Sri Lankan Tamil refugees locked up in camps. Tamil babies are killed simply because of their gender but why no shouting and blowing up railway tracks and self immolations and waving black flags about this Tamil gendercide? Is it because it is more convenient to rail against Sri Lanka?

Thank you about your prognosis on what other Indians think of TN and Tamil, but noone cares about that. The issue is one of where SL stands in terms of foreign policy, or the lack of one. The issue is one of how SL will get its ass kicked yet again, if it chooses to play china, just as it had in the past often enough. Karma is a bitch and sooner than you think, it will come back to bite you. Fortunately, some of the diplomats that run your country are more intelligible than the aam-aadmi Sinhalese chauvinist keyboard jehadi, exemplified by you.

Actually I think Tamil Nadu has an image problem within the Indian Union itself. And it does matter as far as Sri Lanka is concerned, because when other Indian states and the Central Government realise how self-obsessed, insular and chauvinistic Tamil Nadu can be and often is, they are less likely to take up positions that are Anti-Sri Lanka. And I think a lot of non-Tamil Indians have come to the same conclusion about Tamil Nadu. The Central Government regularly massages the Tamil Nadu ego to keep it quiet, and then goes and does things that Tamil Nadu doesn't like -- like developing its relationship with Sri Lanka. I think a lot of people in the Indian hierarchy share my opinion that Tamil Nadu is the monkey wrench in Indo-Lanka relations and they are trying to balance that to both countries benefit. Take a look that the Bollywood stars who did attend the IIFA in Sri Lanka... they thumbed their nose at Tamil threats. But the threat did work for stars who had Tamil productions in the making like Aishwarya and Abhishek in Raavanan who stayed away. A perfect opportunity for India to cement its soft power was thus somewhat thwarted. I expect Shashi Tharoor is going to be chewed up by the Tamil extremists for the speech he gave.

Sri Lanka will be using the China card to its advantage. If you were on the Sri Lankan side I think you would be pro doing this as well. And you're right, karma is a bitch as we saw what happened to Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi. One killed by Tamil extremists and the other by Sikh extremists. Both arrogant and abusive of their power.

Amusing that you should say that. A Constitution that holds the sacrosanctness of the buddhist sasanas and which had been regularly discriminating against one ethnic group because they speak a different language and practice a different religion has a better record of religious harmony?! The last time I checked, India was still a secular democracy with no codified violations of other people's religious rights and fundamental freedoms. Coming from a police-state such as SL where the Executive Presidency has more power than an army dictator could wield in pakistan is certainly not new on brf, but surely amusing.

Yes, Sri Lanka's constitution accords Buddhism "foremost position" in the country. But this does not change the fact that Sri Lanka has a far better record of religious harmony than does India. The majority of the people slide in and out of Buddhism and Hinduism in a syncretic fashion. When was the last religious riot? You don't need to get defensive when I have already admitted that India has a far better record of ethnic harmony than does Sri Lanka. And if India was a true secular democracy it would not have anti-coversion laws that target Christians.

Yes, and calling a bigoted constitution as trash is also my right. So shove that, a citizen of a religious nut country.

Seems like I touched a nerve

[Kashyap]

they did play the pakistan card in the past, it didn't serve them well at all.

I have a different opinion. I think it helped Sri Lanka enormously. Especially as India was not prepared to sell offensive weapons to Sri Lanka. Pakistani arms and ammunition played a key role in the war.

[Kashyap]

Take out India and place a china or UK or US in the place where India is and then assess how that power would have behaved for similar situations with respect to SL. I gaurantee SL would not have survived to even discuss in this thread. All other discussion points are just illusions and false ego.

India arming LTTE is no wrong and I do not accept other members' view here. India armed them to give them a chance against genocide and wanted to control them. India though secular etc., considers SL as dharmic ( means real human rights and justice for all) and does not want to tolerate anti-Tamil drives in SL. The other drivel that India created LTTE and other anti-SL activites becasue of pressure from TN is just drivel. Believe it or not - India is a country created as equal to everyone. If Tamils or anyone has a problem the country tries to help/solve. Sometime it fails. There is no special things happened due to Tamil angle. It would have been the same even if there are all Punjabis in SL and similar treatment is meted to them. We gave independence to Bangladesh when their population was subjected to genocide. Had Pak listened to India like Rajapaksha, things may have been different. The pheripheral countires need to listen to the boss otherwise there will be more problems for those countires. India has all the wherewittal to the games of attrition.

India never wanted LTTE as some strategic asset and when it has the handle and also when LTTE had a different approach which is not in the direction of what India wanted, we ensured that LTTE gets its end even at costly sacrifices. If push comes to shove, we alway can find threads. There is no doooomsday for SL Tamils there. The world is made of several complexities and it is easy to pickup one of the threads and move on that. Just don't worry SL is a pheripheral country and India will always have an ace.

Regarding human development, SL is smart and is not doing like our other neighbors with perrinial thoughts of screw India. If India allows then only SL will have the human development. If India thinks let us screw SL there will be none. It is just an illusion to think "let me do something that antogonizes India" and then also keep developing better than India's human development.

India's weakness is a perception and the elephant takes care of everyone slowly but surely.

If India is so noble as you seem to think, why not let Kashmir go.. and let every state - including Tamil Nadu - vote on whether to remain with the Indian Union?

I take it you think Pakistan arming, training and funding terror groups in India as "not wrong" either? Keeping in mind the "genocide" of Muslims in Gujarat and Kashmir? Or the "genocide" of Christians in Orissa?

[Kashyap]

Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne with Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang


Chinese Vice Premier meets Sri Lankan President

Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 11:58 am SL Time, ColomboPage News Desk, Sri Lanka.

Jun 12, Colombo: Visiting Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang called on Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa Saturday morning at the President's House and held discussions on issues of interest to both countries.

The Chinese leader with a delegation of 30 members arrived in Sri Lanka early Friday for a three-day official visit on an invitation extended by the Sri Lankan Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne.

http://www.colombopage.com/archive_10A/ ... 4118CH.php


Sri Lanka-China sign six pacts

Chaminda PERERA

Sri Lanka and China signed six agreements to enhance co-operation in the fields of technology, industry, information technology and construction at the Prime Minister’s Office yesterday.

The signing of agreements took place in the presence of Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne and Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang.

http://www.dailynews.lk/2010/06/12/pol01.asp


1980s: When Lankan militants roamed TN

K Venkataramanan, TNN, Jun 11, 2010, 05.16am IST

CHENNAI: Douglas Devananda is not the first Sri Lankan Tamil militant leader to meet an Indian head of government while facing criminal proceedings in India. The most important one, as many can easily guess, was none other than the slain LTTE leader Velupillai Prabhakaran, who met late prime minister Rajiv Gandhi in New Delhi in July 1987.

There was nothing surprising about the manner in which cases involving Tamil militants were instituted and then forgotten, as the 1980's was a period of permissiveness towards the presence of armed militants and their occasional crimes. Armed and trained by India, leaders and members of various militant groups treated India, particularly Tamil Nadu, as their safe haven, to which they could retreat whenever they were injured or needed breathing time. There were quite a few training camps in the state, functioning under the patronage of the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), which virtually ran India's Sri Lanka policy then.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City ... 034667.cms


Sri Lanka removed from war risk insurance list

June 11, 2010 (LBO) - London underwriters have removed Sri Lanka from the area listed for war risk insurance following lobbying by the island's government that risks have been eliminated with the end of the ethnic war.

A statement from the Joint War Committee in London said it recently reviewed the Listed Areas for Hull War, Strikes, Terrorism and Related Perils, last altered on March 11, 2010, and deleted Sri Lanka.

http://www.lankabusinessonline.com/full ... =900261392




Sri Lanka general urges political solution to Tamil strife

June 11, 2010 (AFP) - Sri Lanka's army chief on Friday called for a political settlement to the island's decades-long ethnic strife, a year after the Tamil Tiger rebels were defeated in a major military offensive.

Lieutenant General Jagath Jayasuriya warned that although the separatist Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) were crushed following the offensive in May last year, rebel remnants could try to regroup.

"It is up to the government and the people now to find the root cause of the problem and give a proper solution," Jayasuriya told a meeting of businessmen in Colombo.

Jayasuriya took over as army chief in July, shortly after security forces killed the top leadership of the Tigers and ended their struggle for independence for the island's minority Tamil community.

http://www.lankabusinessonline.com/full ... =155971979

[Philip]

For Stan,it was not JND who advised Rajiv reg. the accord with JRJ,but Romesh Bhandari,who thought he was the sub-continent's equivalent of Kissinger,who lusted after the Nobel peace Prize and saw the exit of Mrs.G's most trusted advisers on foreign affairs.Romesh B. was treated like a head of state by the canny Lankans (JRJ),given VVIP treatment,cavalcades with sirens,the works and was "looked after" allegedly by the island of gems.The Lankans were delighted with RB and after the signing of the accord with Lankan he was off trying to sort out the Iraq-Iran war! Karunanidhi prophetically decried the accord saying that it was like a "marriage ceremony where the registrar got married to the bride instead of the groom"!

Despite the dreadful decision,which saw the induction of the IPKF anbd the looss of 2000+ Indian soldiers' lives,the IPKF had the LTTE cornered eventually,held elections in the N&E,installed a puppet ruler and all that remained was the further implementation of the peace settlement (devolution of power).Instead,VP Singh meekly withdrew the IKF because Pres.Premadasa wanted it so and the blood and sacrifice of the IPKF was totally wasted.To this day it is shameful that nbot a single Indian govt. of the day has recognised the great price in blood that the IPKF paid and has not set up a permament memorial for the same.

As for the "Claymore",it is a sad fact of the appalling ignorance of Delhi with regard to the shades and nuances of Lanka's ethnic Tamil mix and my friend let's say has been one in the know.This stems from the culture of many in the north of India who use the familiar cliche,"Madrasis" for all Indians south of the Vindhyas.If half of India can be so lumped together,imagine the further ignorance of the ethniicity of a little island off the tip of India ,occupied by Tamils and Cingalese (the old colonial spelling).

[Kashyap]

As for the "Claymore",it is a sad fact of the appalling ignorance of Delhi with regard to the shades and nuances of Lanka's ethnic Tamil mix and my friend let's say has been one in the know.This stems from the culture of many in the north of India who use the familiar cliche,"Madrasis" for all Indians south of the Vindhyas.If half of India can be so lumped together,imagine the further ignorance of the ethniicity of a little island off the tip of India ,occupied by Tamils and Cingalese (the old colonial spelling).

Many Sri Lankans share this ignorance... except it goes the other way. They are clueless of the universe that is India.

[RajeshA]

And I have yet to see a more backward group of political leaders than the current ones of Tamil Nadu. But perhaps this is what happens when movie stars are voted into power. Why not get them to stop fanning Tamil chauvinism? Whether it it is hatred for North Indians, the Hindi language, attacks on Kannadigas and Karnataka, hate speech on Kerala and the Mullaperiyar Dam issue, hatred towards Brahmins, support for the LTTE and hate speech against the Sinhalese, inter-caste clashes, Tamil linguistic chauvinism, the list goes on. Tamil Nadu and Tamils have their own share of extremism and bigotry and despite your finger wagging at Sri Lanka I don't think other Indians are going to support that either. Indeed, the current Indian government has steadfastly refused to bow down to Tamil extremism.

Indian sympathy and moral support for the Tamil-Eelam self-determination subsided, after the IPKF fiasco and RG's murder. That had more to do with the fact that LTTE completely hijacked the Tamil-Eelam cause and also turned against India. In fact LTTE became the roadblock for India's support to the Tamil Eelam cause. After the IPKF fiasco and RG's murder, the GoI was less willing to let Tamil Nadu dictate India's Sri Lanka policy.

So what has happened? LTTE has been destroyed. Prabhakaran has been destroyed. The rest-LTTE have learned a lesson, and the lesson is that India's support was indeed crucial. Later on, they often sent feelers and expressions of regret for what happened, but it was too late. Now LTTE is no more.

The question is what has SL learned?

SL has a choice. The Singhalese can come down from their high horse, and try to reconcile with the Tamils, create peace and develop together. They can try to do away with their anti-India rhetoric and stop working against Indian interests in the IOR. They can try to integrate their economy with the Indian economic engine, and bring some stability and prosperity for their country.

Or they can keep on sitting on their high horse and keep on hurling their cheap abuses at India. They can keep on threatening India with some China card and Pakistani bonhomie. They can keep on subjugating the Tamils and treating them like second-class citizens. What would the Sri Lankans then get?

A more aggressive India, not necessarily with Congress at the helm, could again pick up the old strategy of militarily and logistically supporting Sri Lankan Tamils. Only this time, there would not be some idiot like Prabhakaran, rubbing India the wrong way, and the military cooperation can proceed unhindered. The next tier of commanders fighting for Tamil Eelam in their next war of Independence would not make the same mistakes of Prabhakaran. Let's not forget that there are still tens of thousands of capable but decommissioned fighters amongst the Sri Lankan Tamils. India would again allow the politicians from Tamil Nadu a free hand to set the agenda wrt Sri Lanka. And then the Sri Lankans can face the next round of bullets. One could think of what the Turks did on Cyprus. The irony would be, that Sri Lankans themselves would have removed the roadblock for Indian support to the Tamils.

The point is, it is only so far that Sri Lanka can go with their China card. Pakistan has been playing all these cards all these years and what have they to show for: empty chest beating, a destroyed land and an international environment where a Pakistani hesitates to admit that he is a Pakistani. At some point in time, if India thinks that Sri Lankans have not learned the right lessons, India would have to rethink her peaceful stance towards the Sri Lankan Singhalese.

As far as Indian Tamils are concerned, they are Indians, and they would continue to exert a legitimate influence over India's Sri Lanka policy. If their influence is benign or leads to massacres in Sri Lanka is up to the Singhalese to decide.
Indian Tamils are part of India, part of the family. Singhalese are simply outsiders, and will be given carrots or sticks depending on their behavior.

As far as Sri Lankans are concerned India does not need to defend her actions or her policies, on the basis of morality or otherwise. India will make policies and shove it up the Sri Lankans, whether they like it or not. They can yowl all they want.

[Kashyap]

Indian sympathy and moral support for the Tamil-Eelam self-determination subsided, after the IPKF fiasco and RG's murder. That had more to do with the fact that LTTE completely hijacked the Tamil-Eelam cause and also turned against India. In fact LTTE became the roadblock for India's support to the Tamil Eelam cause. After the IPKF fiasco and RG's murder, the GoI was less willing to let Tamil Nadu dictate India's Sri Lanka policy.

So what has happened? LTTE has been destroyed. Prabhakaran has been destroyed. The rest-LTTE have learned a lesson, and the lesson is that India's support was indeed crucial. Later on, they often sent feelers and expressions of regret for what happened, but it was too late. Now LTTE is no more.

The question is what has SL learned?

SL has a choice. The Singhalese can come down from their high horse, and try to reconcile with the Tamils, create peace and develop together. They can try to do away with their anti-India rhetoric and stop working against Indian interests in the IOR. They can try to integrate their economy with the Indian economic engine, and bring some stability and prosperity for their country.

Or they can keep on sitting on their high horse and keep on hurling their cheap abuses at India. They can keep on threatening India with some China card and Pakistani bonhomie. They can keep on subjugating the Tamils and treating them like second-class citizens. What would the Sri Lankans then get?

A more aggressive India, not necessarily with Congress at the helm, could again pick up the old strategy of militarily and logistically supporting Sri Lankan Tamils. Only this time, there would not be some idiot like Prabhakaran, rubbing India the wrong way, and the military cooperation can proceed unhindered. The next tier of commanders fighting for Tamil Eelam in their next war of Independence would not make the same mistakes of Prabhakaran. Let's not forget that there are still tens of thousands of capable but decommissioned fighters amongst the Sri Lankan Tamils. India would again allow the politicians from Tamil Nadu a free hand to set the agenda wrt Sri Lanka. And then the Sri Lankans can face the next round of bullets. One could think of what the Turks did on Cyprus. The irony would be, that Sri Lankans themselves would have removed the roadblock for Indian support to the Tamils.

The point is, it is only so far that Sri Lanka can go with their China card. Pakistan has been playing all these cards all these years and what have they to show for: empty chest beating, a destroyed land and an international environment where a Pakistani hesitates to admit that he is a Pakistani. At some point in time, if India thinks that Sri Lankans have not learned the right lessons, India would have to rethink her peaceful stance towards the Sri Lankan Singhalese.

As far as Indian Tamils are concerned, they are Indians, and they would continue to exert a legitimate influence over India's Sri Lanka policy. If their influence is benign or leads to massacres in Sri Lanka is up to the Singhalese to decide.
Indian Tamils are part of India, part of the family. Singhalese are simply outsiders, and will be given carrots or sticks depending on their behavior.

As far as Sri Lankans are concerned India does not need to defend her actions or her policies, on the basis of morality or otherwise. India will make policies and shove it up the Sri Lankans, whether they like it or not. They can yowl all they want.

Yawn. These threats are getting old (and amusing). India will do this, India will do that. India will bomb this, India will bomb that. India will arm militants, India will nuke Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China etc etc and anyone who dares to mess with it. India will take over the world, and anyone who says anything against this will be smacked hard. Dixit tried the imperial role and see where it got him alongside Rajiv Gandhi. Please try harder. Don't let your jingoism stand in the way

Latest news is that some pro-LTTE group blew up train tracks in Tamil Nadu. Why not fix your own backyard first, else the Maoists will be knocking at India's door and Pakistani militants will be flooding the country.

Sri Lanka will use the China and Pakistan card to maximum benefit, whether you like it or not. You can yowl all you want It is to Sri Lanka's advantage to do so at this stage. Has played the balance quite well so far. As you yourself admit, Indian Tamils (ie Tamil Nadu) will continue to exert an influence on India's policy towards Sri Lanka. That will affect Indo-Lankan relations. It's upto India, not Sri Lanka to balance that with its national interest. That China and Pakistan are in the picture is India's fault, not Sri Lanka's. If you want to blame anyone, please blame your policy makers who chose not to have a full defence relationship with Sri Lanka during the war.

PS Indo-Lankan relations have never been better. Your furious typing is not going to change that.

[RajeshA]

Yawn. These threats are getting old. India will do this, India will do that. India will bomb this, India will bomb that. Dixit tried the imperial role and see where it got him alongside Rajiv Gandhi. Please try harder. Don't let your jingoism stand in the way

Latest news is that some pro-LTTE group blew up train tracks in Tamil Nadu. Why not fix your own backyard first, else the Maoists will be knocking at India's door.

As far as I can remember, the death toll from the war in Sri Lanka was definitely higher for Sri Lanka than for India, and far more debilitating for Sri Lankan economy than for Indian, or is it you don't know how to count or assess.

For a citizen of a country just coming out of bloody prolonged war, a war, in your own words, inflamed by India, you must be really alienated from reality, to feel at ease about the possibilities.

[RajeshA]

PS Indo-Lankan relations have never been better. Your furious typing is not going to change that.

My 'furious typing' is not going to change anything, but you can count your blessings that the Tamils in Tamil Nadu do not arrange for a change in that stance.

It is funny how you often jump to meta-discussions. Possibly because you have problems sticking to the topic.

Sri Lanka will use the China and Pakistan card to maximum benefit, whether you like it or not. You can yowl all you want It is to Sri Lanka's advantage to do so at this stage. Has played the balance quite well so far. As you yourself admit, Indian Tamils (ie Tamil Nadu) will continue to exert an influence on India's policy towards Sri Lanka. That will affect Indo-Lankan relations. It's upto India, not Sri Lanka to balance that with its national interest. That China and Pakistan are in the picture is India's fault, not Sri Lanka's. If you want to blame anyone, please blame your policy makers who chose not to have a full defence relationship with Sri Lanka during the war.

And should India undertake steps, which are not in the 'Indian interest', Indian interests would of course get 'harmed', but the effects on Sri Lanka would be, I presume, a bit more severe.

[Kashyap]

As far as I can remember, the death toll from the war in Sri Lanka was definitely higher for Sri Lanka than for India, and far more debilitating for Sri Lankan economy than for Indian, or is it you don't know how to count or assess.

For a citizen of a country just coming out of bloody prolonged war, a war, in your own words, inflamed by India, you must be really alienated from reality, to feel at ease about the possibilities.

The people who suffered the most were the Sri Lankan Tamils. But all through the war, the Sri Lankan economy grew by 5-6%, Sri Lankans still have the 2nd highest GDP per capita (after Maldives), human development stats outshine her neighbours, and according to the Eye on Asia report, Sri Lankans are the happiest people in Asia. I'm not trying to downplay the negative effects of war here, just pointing out that Sri Lanka did not too badly over the last 25 years.

And yes, I am at ease with your delusional fantasies of India going on a rabid rampage to "teach everyone a lesson."

[Kashyap]

PS Indo-Lankan relations have never been better. Your furious typing is not going to change that.

My 'furious typing' is not going to change anything, but you can count your blessings that the Tamils in Tamil Nadu do not arrange for a change in that stance.

It is funny how you often jump to meta-discussions. Possibly because you have problems sticking to the topic.

Let the Tamils in Tamil Nadu have their stand. They are entitled to it, as you have rightly said.

But I don't think the current Indian administration, or non-Tamil Indians are going to pander to Tamil Nadu though. There are around 60 million Tamils in India, but that is only around 6% of India's population. Assuming that every single Indian Tamil is anti-Sri Lankan and hates Sri Lanka to the core (which is certainly not true), that still leaves 94% of Indians who are perhaps supportive of consolidating Indo-Lankan ties.

Indians are currently the largest group of tourists to Sri Lanka.

So is Tamil Nadu going to boycott Gujaratis, Marathis, Malayalis, Kannadigas, Telugu people, Bengalis etc as they are visiting Sri Lanka? Just like they are going to boycott all the Bollywood stars who turned up for the IIFA in Colombo?

[Stan_Savljevic]

Actually the Sinhalese and the Muslims get on quite well.

By playing one community against another, yea sure, now the sinhalese and the muslims co-exist as if they dont have a choice. Rewind back even twenty years, and read about the goings-on in your state, and all is not funny and cute. But but, here we have someone painting the sinhalese as uber-saints and buddha-offsprings, will sell for votes in the JVP country. Not here where people have some idea about the perfidy and insaneness that is SL politics.

There has only really been one major riot between the two groups and that was way back in 1915.

Oh how beautiful they get along. Only if someone did nt read much, could that be a truth that is uncontestable. Sorry. Here you go.

So far the Muslim community has allied itself with the majority Sinhalese on most national issues. On the strength of this alliance the community has been able to exploit the Sinhala-Tamil political lacunae to gain unwritten favours and privileges from the Sinhalese governments. Being a second minority this behaviour has its own political and economic rationale in the context of a parliamentary system based on party politics. However, after nearly fifty years of ethnic politics the two major political parties, the UNP and the SLFP have realized that the country cannot progress in a competitive global economy without national peace and harmony. There is also international pressure from global capitalism[13] on both parties to bring the crisis to an end, and one can see a sense of desperation in the search for a settlement with the Tamils. In this desperation lies the danger that the Muslim interest could be sidelined to appease the Tamils.

Although the relationship between the Sinhalese and Muslims in Sri Lanka has been mostly cordial there were periods when the Sinhalese leaders did not fail to show their actual hatred towards the Muslims. During such periods the Sinhalese leadership had been instrumental in instigating the Sinhalese masses to attack Muslim life and property. The racial riots of 1915 was the first major episode in this century when Sinhalese animosity towards the Muslims was violently expressed. The most celebrated Sri Lankan Buddhist revivalJar of that time, Anagarika Dharmapala, was a leading campagner against Muslim presence in the country. To him the Muslims were 'aliens' and 'foreigners' and deserved to be expatriated to Arabia.[14] Although Dharmapala is now dead, the echo of his sentiment can still be heard during times of Sinlaala-Muslim unrest. There is a perception among the commercial Sinhalese middle class that the Muslim hegemony in trade should be curtailed. Bioth the spiritual and secular branches of the Sinhalese bourgeoise share this perception, and it cannot be denied that most of the communal violence against the Muslims has had economic overtones. Even more recently, in the seventies, there were several instances of Sinhalese mob violence against the Muslims in places like Panadura, Galle, Mahiyangana, Puttalam, Kalutara, Gampola and Beruwela in which Muslim business establishments were looted and burnt. If such incidents have diminished in the eighties and nineties that was not because of any fundamental change in the attitude of the diehard chauvinists but because of their current obsession with the major problem of fighting the Tamils.

The Muslim achievements in the field of education and cultural affairs have been hailed as a mark of success to the art of compromising politics. These achievements although look impressive on the surface will have to be seriously scrutinized by the community to see whether those benefits have actually uplifted the Muslims to become competitive with the other communities in a world of shrinking opportunities to the mediocre and incompetent. In spite of this reservation the so-called educational and cultural achievements which were gained through political compromises and personal concessions from the Sinhalese governments inflicted a heavy price on the Muslims in other areas. For example, the Muslims in the Eastern Province have lost a large amount of agricultural land to the Sinhalese because of government sponsored colonization schemes and other economic and cultural project.[15] In the Puttalam and Kurunegala districts of North-West, such losses were incurred under the Paddy Lands Bill. In the South of the country the gem trade which was the traditional stronghold of the Beruwela Muslims was lost to the government under the latter's scheme to nationalize the gem business. In the capital Colombo, Pettah was once the center of Muslim business establishments and today it is no more; and the central zone of Colombo which was once heavily populated by the Muslims who were able to elect regularly two Muslim members to the parliament from the Colombo-Central electorate, was systematically injected with more Sinhalese under the state housing projects carried out by the Ministry of Housing in the seventies and after. Thus, while the governments were supportive of the Muslims to promote their cultural activities and religion-biased education they made every effort to reduce the Muslims' economic strength and political importance. The local Muslim leadership which always preferred to win privileges rather than rights could not openly protest against these setbacks. Even Badiuddin Mahrnud, the most charismatic politician ever produced by the Sri Lankan Muslim community and who had a lot of fighting qualities, could not prevent this economic erosion. All that Mahmud achieved was to create a sub-class of Muslim teachers and administrators, not all of whom were effective in their fields.

The Rise of the Sri Lanka Muslim Congress (SLMC)
In the political arena the changes which were brought about by the 1978 constitution of the Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka (which later came to be known as the De Gaullist constitution)[16] was a watershed in Muslim politics. This constitution by introducing a complicated system of proportional representation, rode any aspiring poliOclan to throw him/herself at the feet of a political party to win priority placement in that party's nomination list. The number of representatives elected to the parliament under a certain political party depended on the proportion of votes which that party polled in the entire election. The constitution also laid down the rule that if a parliamentarian decided to cross over from one party to another after being elected that member had to relinquish his seat and the party which lost him/her would nominate another. The constitution vitally made the model politician a prisoner of the party hierarchy. Althoigh the Muslims did not protest against this constitution at that time, it was generally feared that the community would stand to lose most under the new system of representation. M. H. M. Ashraf, a young Muslim lawyer from the Eastern Province, thought that the best option to the Muslims was to form their own political party. His political ideas were shaped by the thoughts of two other Muslim personalities, M. A.M. Hussain a retired District Judge and an uncle of Ashraf and Abdul Cader Lebbe the most renowned Muslim Tamil philosopher poet of Sri Lanka. These two personalities were eyewitness to the struggle for Pakistan in the thirties and forties, and they thought that if the Sri Lankan Muslims could unite under one political leadership as most sub-continent Muslims did under the Muslim League in the sub-continent, then they could rise to greater heights in all national fields. Moreover, to Hussain and Lebbe, the rising young lawyer from the East appeared to provide a striking similarity with Muhammad Ali Jinnah of Pakistan who was also a lawyer by profession but became the leader of the Indian Muslim League and eventually the first Prime Minister of independent Pakistan. With the intellectual support of Hussain and Lebbe young Ashraf and a few of his friends formed the Sri Lanka Muslim Congress in the early eighties which was formally registered as a political party in 1986. The Tamil-Muslim racial riots of April 1985 in the Eastern Province added an additional imperative to the formation of this party.

Although Ashraf claims that his party represents the interests of the entire Muslim community in Sri Lanka, the SLMC is actually a regional party based mostly on the support of the Muslims of the Eastern Province. The SLMC is relevant to the population landscape of the Eastern Province, but in the other provinces where each Muslim politician has his own bailiwick, a centralized Muslim political party is bound to be fragile. Yet, the rise of the SLMC has created a major challenge firsfly to national Muslim leadership which traditionally came from Colombo and its suburban areas and which did not favour the formation of any independent political party for the Muslims, let alone the SLMC. Throughout the parliamentary history of Sri Lanka the Muslims were able to steer their political destiny quite creditably without the necessity of a political party of their own. By dividing their support between the two major national parties, the UNP and the SLFP, they were able to avoid the ethnic party politics of the Tamils which, given the inevitable logic of such politics, has driven the country to its current state of political tragedy. In the views of the traditional Muslim leadership, Ashraf's strategy appeared to be damaging that healthy trend. That fact was driven home in a recent development following the formation of the present government.

In spite of the changes introduced by the 1978 constitution to reduce the political clout of the minorities, Muslim support became crucial when the SLFP won the general electohs of 1993 but with a slender majority. Without the support of the SLMC the present coalition government under the leadership of Chandrika Kumaranatunga could not have emerged. In return for this support Ashraf was appointed as the Minister of Shipping and Rehabilitation Affairs by the new government. This appointment increased the number of Muslim ministers in the cabinet to three; the other two being members of the $LFP. This was something which the Sinhala Buddhist supporters of the SLFP could not digest. To them, although the emergence of the SLMC was a welcoming factor in the fight against the Tamils, the position of Ashraf, as a minister in the present government in addition to two other Muslim ministers and Ashraf's flamboyant braggadocio that it was he and his party which were responsible for the formation of this government, was totally intolerable. This statement of Ashraf although it was factually correct, actually showed the political immaturity of an exuberant youngster. In any case, a section of the Buddhist population led by some leading Buddhist monks became agitated and as happened on several occasions in the past, anti-Muslim feelings were whipped up. Before the situation deteriorated, the Buddhist Sangha acted with wisdom to pressurize Ashraf to rescind his statement.

Even on earlier occasions Muslim ministers in the Sri Lankan parliament had created Sinhala-Muslim communal tension because of their rash statements and shortsighted politics; but because they happened to be members of the ruling national party the government was always quick to take measures of damage control. This time it was not a national party minister but a coalition parmer whose loyalties to the government was contractual. Fortunately for the nation and to the Muslim community, that parmer did not carry the bulk of the Muslim support. However the incident helps one to understand the enormous risk involved in forming a single ethnic party to represent the entire Muslim community. The emergence of the SLMC has also created problems for the Tamil parties and particularly for the LTTE. Recent statements by LTTE spokesmen reveal that LTTE now appears to regret the damage it has done to Tamil Muslim relationship. The task of repairing that damage has been made difficult, however, by the rise of SLMC which stands to gain by keeping the two communities divided. It is an impasse situation and there is no quick solution to it. Irrespective of these developments, the rise of the SLMC has brought the Muslim factor to the frontline of any permanent solution to the ethnic crisis.

Relations between the Muslims and Tamils, however, haven't been so rosy especially since the arrival of the LTTE. The Muslims were ethnically cleasned from the northern province and faced attacks in the east.

Sure, they have nt been rosy between Tamils and the Muslims. They have nt been rosy between Sinhalese and Muslims either.

But the fact reamins that Tamils are the only subcontinental non-Muslim community who have provided suicide bombers to the world, and we are not talking minor here.

Anyone who takes a gun and kills and maims people with a pan-societal cause is committing a crime. The Tamils may have had suicide bombing squads. But the sinhalese are not far off in either the scale and degree of violence or the ruthlessness of destruction on their own who dont conform or on others who resist. Thanks for the moral preaching though.

There are more than 1 billion Muslims and some 55 million Tamils, yet the Tamil community have provided more suicide bombers to the world than the more than 1 billion Muslims.

So the 30000 sinhalese killed in the 1987-90 JVP instigated riots in South Sri Lanka when the IPKF was holding fort in the North so that Jayewardene's troops could go down south and slaughter fellow-sinhalese who sided with JVP is a part of some magic figure that does nt count because ah-noone used a soosai bum?!

Tamils created and ran a terrorist group that is banned in India, US, UK, EU, Malaysia etc and the FBI called it one of the
most deadliest terror groups in the world.

And once upon a time, the two main parties SLFP and UNP provided succor to the JVP and its clones. Anagarika Dharmapala, the foremost sinhalese supremacist monk of the yesteryears was in the forefront of instigating anti-Muslim and anti-Tamil relations. What more needs to be said about a chauvinist state that neither understands the idea of dharma, but has nuff enthusiasm to make it the state prerogative.

Tamil terrorists were the only ones who have succeded in killing two heads of states. Even Pakistani terror groups have not tasted that much success, although I am sure would dearly love to assasinate Mr Manmohan Singh.

There was a sinhalese soldier who made an attempt on Shri Rajiv Gandhi's life before the LTTE got to him. Who would count that, your father?!

Kudos to you for trying to spin this into a Buddhist vs Hindu thing.

Noone is putting a spin on things, it is all there in black and white for those who want to be informed. SL's history and its raising of the mahawamsa over the last century has been an act of Buddhist revival that has seen its relations with other religions as a zero-sum game. You can either learn to accept facts about your country or put up evidence to the contrary especially when someone has the balls to throw in historical evidences to such a thesis. In short, put up or shut up.

Perhaps someone has forgotten that mahinda rajapakse himself was an actor to start with. How come the forward Sri Lankans follow the tactics of the backward Tamil Nadu folks?!

How many Sri Lankans know this? Which movies? Does anyone even know? What about Chandrika, Ranil, Premadasa, DS Senanayake, Wijetunga, the two Bandaranaikes? How many temples are built for movie stars in Sri Lanka? How many are there in Tamil Nadu?

Before we get to this bullshite, India is a democracy and any citizen can compete in elections. If the people elect a legitimate candidate, he/she rules. That is the rule of the law. The fact that he may have been an actor/actress is immaterial to this. And there have been enough actors all over the world who have been smart enough to run their countries/states. Nothing, especially common sense, precludes this. So why whine around when you have a better hypothesis to fight?

Oh so its "linguistic pride" for Tamils but linguistic chauvinism for anyone else? Let me rephrase your reply:

Tamils did not want Tamil to be accorded the numero uno status in the Indian Constitution. They wanted equal rights for all languages. On the contrary, the sinhalese wanted their language, culture and religion to be the pre-dominant one. Ergo, apples and oranges. Sinhalese are chauvinists, Tamils are equal-right seekers. Yes, sinhalese are chauvinists.

You have been railing against Hindi on this board previously. The fact that you attempt to try and explain away Tamil extremism in your post just goes to show that it is an issue.

There are no justifications for unequal rights for citizens of India, whether they speak Tamil or Hindi. Any GoI or state government that does such an act deserves opprobrium and vilest condemnation. In that aspect, surely the Nehru government of 47-62 was short-sighted. There was course-correction and such a course-correction was applauded by Tamil politicians, essentially from what you call the backward Tamil film industry. There have been less issues once both parties have compromised on goals that are attainable. What goals have been understood between the Tamils and the sinhalese in SL? There is as much anger and condemnation between the sinhalese and Tamils, as there has been between the other two combinations. Thank you.

Tamil Nadu has been one state that has run a hate campaign against Hindi and which refused to really accept Hindi.

Yes, and even today TN will refuse to accept Hindi if it is unilaterally bombarded by the force of the GoI. If people do accept it out of their volition, noone (definitely not me) has an issue. Enemies are not seen everywhere, but discriminatory policies are well-understood. So in that sense, the TN population is far more intelligent and accepting of the nuances of the situation that are hot-headed sinhalese extremists. The very fact that the Dravida naadu movement died down is a fact that TN people are intelligent. So take that.

Nirupama Rao, Shashi Tharoor and MK Narayanan are all Malayalis.

Smt. Nirupama Rao was born in what is now Kerala, but is a Kannadiga. Certainly she is one of the most brightest Foreign Service personnel India has ever seen. So shove your comments about Tamils hating her for being a "Malayali." Noone cares about where she was born, she is the Indian Foreign Secretary and holding such a high position as she is, and being in SL before, she knows the TN's viewpoint far better than neanderthals in SL.

Get used to it, TN will always be the "monkey wrench" in what you call India-SL relations. There are no two things about it. GoI and GoTN policies are synchronized and if there is a lack of consensus, it will be hammered out. GoTN has hardly whined about GoI in public, so you have no locus standi on this issue.

Yes, Sri Lanka's constitution accords Buddhism "foremost position" in the country. But this does not change the fact that Sri Lanka has a far better record of religious harmony than does India.

The proof of that claim is in the pudding. SL has a far better record is a statement that is only a statement unless everyone around you believes it. You choose to believe what you do, but the fact remains that the SL constitution is a bigoted one, as is Malaysia's bhumiputra policy. The two cases are similar, one is islamic, the other buddhist. No two things about it.

Seems like I touched a nerve

You are welcome.

[Aditya_V]

Kashyap wrote

Yawn. These threats are getting old (and amusing). India will do this, India will do that. India will bomb this, India will bomb that. India will arm militants, India will nuke Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China etc etc and anyone who dares to mess with it. India will take over the world, and anyone who says anything against this will be smacked hard. Dixit tried the imperial role and see where it got him alongside Rajiv Gandhi. Please try harder. Don't let your jingoism stand in the way

When did India say it will Nuke Sri lanka or even attack Sri Lanka- pease elaborate?

Rajiv Ghandi died because he realeased Prakaran twice after having him arrested.

We are never interested in Invading or doing anything to your Island.

Truth is, India was quite happy with a low intensity conflict rumbling along in Sri Lanka all these years, but jumped on the bandwagon when it saw the LTTE was getting defeated. China and Pakistan, however, were always on the bandwagon. Having weak neighbours is in India's interest so India can consolidate its position as the regional power. The only problem is when it gets really unstable and threatens to spill over into India - like the case with Pakistan. The LTTE was something that India used as leverage over Sri Lanka, let's not pretend otherwise.

Sorry it does not , infact Tamil Nadu development and growth and development has been affected from threats from the LTTE. But the British and Norway did and still continue to do so. Thats why BBC is still crying about Human Rights violation in the Killing of Prabakaran.
Regarding Pakistan's help, the last I heard thier airforce and miltary planners were involved in the fight against the LTTE from 2000-07 but this resulted only in civilian causualties in villages in Northern Sri lanka and did not damge the LTTE. Most of thier miltary help left in 2007. It was when these worthies were kicked out did the Sri Lankan miltary started getting sucess against the LTTE.
Besides do you think Pakistanis will deal with a Rajapakse who goes to the Tirpati Temple no way. Thats another reason why EJ's, Certain tamil politians and BBC hate him.

Having weak neighbours is not Indian Interests, in fact it is outside powers which constantly fund our neighbours to be constantly be anti-India . It is part of thier Geo-politics. A Single intergrated economic block would create another economic competitor for them

The backward group of politicians in Tamil Nadu have a hold on the GOI because they formed part of the coalition that was keeping the currrent administration in power. They have a hold on the GOI because they control one of India's most populous states. They have a hold because they threaten to turn Tamil Nadu "into another Kashmir" if their demands aren't met.

Yes , we tamils are cursed with this lot.

But TamilNadu is another Kashmir- that will never happen, as a Tamil from Tamil Nadu let me tell you that we are to Indian to go against ourselves and we are not free riders. And please check about the Industrial centers in Tamil Nadu. We have a lot of economic prosperity going for us and will never jeopordize that. The present govt depends on its position based on support from the DMK. If these politicians are really against the present Sri Lankan policy they would have pulled the rug out by now.



You seem to be making a lot genralizations. Like Tamils giving more sucide Bombers than the whole lot of musilms. Have you actually counted, I am pretty certain Pakistan and eclipsed all records in the last 1 year. How many Indian tamils do you know. Regarding Tamil Politicians and Cinema actors, these are group which gets most of the EJ funds and they will natuarally support the LTTE since they get paid to do it. Not because of any love for Tamils.

[kittoo]

Kashyap, please refrain from rhetoric. Even if you had a valid point, your rhetoric will only drown that. Be calm and then discuss.
It is right that Sri lanka will play the China or Pak (LOL) card, and thats right too that India will see to it, if push comes to shove, that Sri lanka remains in line. Both are facts, its just that how far Sri lanka wants to go. The effects of constant anti-India stance of Pakistan are for everyone to see. The possibility of wooing Nepal (which is far bigger country than Sri Lanka) were more for China, given the geographic proximity, size of Nepal and the power of communists there. But did India just let Nepal go? Did India stop exerting its influence? Similarly, Nepal too did not stop using China card. Its not a threat but a rather simple fact that friendship with India, rather than playing this card or that card, will give much more benefits to Sri Lanka, especially because of its geography. If God forbid, Sri Lanka becomes arrogant because of China or Pak (which I must say, your rhetoric makes you), its a fact that there will be consequences. India is used to neighbors hating it just because of its sheer size. But in the end, all India needs is neighbors not trying to 'teach a lesson' this way or that way, they can hate her all they want. A little co-operation and understanding will benefit both countries. Bangladesh it seems has understood that.
I guess I can sum up if like that- sure India will have to pay some price too if Sri Lanka becomes another Pak like neighbor for India, but the price Sri Lanka will pay will be much much higher. You dont have to go anywhere other than Pak to see that, which is far bigger than SL. But why pay any price at all? Why hate India just cause its much bigger and powerful? Now that LTTE is finished, why not go for a route that brings happiness to all? We have excellent historical and cultural relations, lets forge other ones too. Empty rhetoric will not help anyone in the end. Lets see far and long, and not be short-sighted.

[RajeshA]

And yes, I am at ease with your delusional fantasies of India going on a rabid rampage to "teach everyone a lesson."

Like I said before, your tendency for meta-discussion metaphors, just show your weakness, and makes clear that you have delusional fantasies about knowing how I or other Indians think, because otherwise you wouldn't be spouting the rubbish about India nuking this country and that country.

You think the Foreign Policy being made in India would be for simple effect of teaching a lesson to somebody! Teaching lessons is for those who care what you think! As and when India feels that Indian interests in Sri Lanka are jeopardized, and the welfare of the Tamils belongs in that category, then India would reach her conclusions and act accordingly. You can extrapolate whatever you want from 'India would act accordingly'. If you consider it a threat, that is up to you. Whether you take it seriously or not, is up to you.

You can play the China card, if you want, that too is up to you.

All I am saying is, if you some day either get a less-than-cunning person as your prime policy-maker or the outside powers push your hand, or you misread the mood in Delhi or the patience in Chennai, you may very well tip the balance of what is considered, playing your cards well. Then you live with the consequences.

So I hope you can play your cards well. You just have to remember, that you have to keep on playing your cards well for all eternity, because India and Sri Lanka would remain neighbors for a very long time.

Your bravura about Sri Lanka playing cards is based on a snapshot of the last couple of years. History is long! But I don't really want to disturb your party mood or your high!

[Tanaji]

Interesting view point eh? Get massive Indian aid before and after, spill Indian blood , use Indian Navy's help to secure one's objectives and at the end of it all, curse India and make snide comments about Tamils movie obsession.

One doesn't expect gratitude but...

Jis thaali mein khaate hain usi thaali mein chhed karte hain... INGRATE!

[Kashyap]

By playing one community against another, yea sure, now the sinhalese and the muslims co-exist as if they dont have a choice. Rewind back even twenty years, and read about the goings-on in your state, and all is not funny and cute. But but, here we have someone painting the sinhalese as uber-saints and buddha-offsprings, will sell for votes in the JVP country. Not here where people have some idea about the perfidy and insaneness that is SL politics.

Actually historically the Sinhalese and Muslims have got on quite well. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that Muslims came to Sri Lanka as tradesmen and not as invaders. Infact, Muslims controlled much of Sri Lanka's maritime trade and also fought alongside Sinhalese kings against the colonials. Even today in the Kandy district many Muslims have Sinhalese clan names which were conferred upon them by the king in recognition of their service to the kingdom. There have been very few Sinhalese-Muslim riots. All the majority anti-Muslim violence has been carried out by Tamil militant groups, and lately by more fundamentalist Islamic sects who have been targetting the the more sufi-inspired traditional Islam practiced by Sri Lanka's Muslims. Stragely enough the Sinhalese have found it easier to integrate with the Muslims and the Muslims have found it easier to integrate with the Sinhalese. The role of Muslims in India is replaced in Sri Lanka by the Tamil community (ie perception of "outsiders" who are not integrating with the mainstream).

Oh how beautiful they get along. Only if someone did nt read much, could that be a truth that is uncontestable. Sorry. Here you go.

Thanks for the long quote, but I am unable to find any real huge friction between the Sinhalese and Muslims there. If anything it shows that the Muslim community placed their trust in the political process and have and are participating fully in the political process of the island. Infact the SLMC has actually held several previous Sri Lankan governments in power ie if they pulled out, the government would have crashed.

Sure, they have nt been rosy between Tamils and the Muslims. They have nt been rosy between Sinhalese and Muslims either.

I guess we disagree here. I actually think the relationship betweent the Sinhalese and the Muslims is pretty rosy. Not that there is nothing to iron out, but the relationship is pretty good. Muslims are far more integrated in Sri Lanka than are Sri Lankan Tamils. Many of them are trilingual and are a model to other Sri Lankans. It's the Sinhalese-Tamil relationship that needs work.

Anyone who takes a gun and kills and maims people with a pan-societal cause is committing a crime. The Tamils may have had suicide bombing squads. But the sinhalese are not far off in either the scale and degree of violence or the ruthlessness of destruction on their own who dont conform or on others who resist. Thanks for the moral preaching though.

So you agree Tamils have their share of racism, bigotry and extremism which they need to sort out.

So the 30000 sinhalese killed in the 1987-90 JVP instigated riots in South Sri Lanka when the IPKF was holding fort in the North so that Jayewardene's troops could go down south and slaughter fellow-sinhalese who sided with JVP is a part of some magic figure that does nt count because ah-noone used a soosai bum?!

How does this have anything to do with suicide bombers? I think someone should do some research onto how Tamils have provided so many suicide bombers to the world, pioneering many devices such as the bra bomb. And since you love bringing religion into the picture, include why an overwhelmingly Hindu community such as the Tamils are right up there with the extremists among the Muslim community in making human bombs.

And once upon a time, the two main parties SLFP and UNP provided succor to the JVP and its clones. Anagarika Dharmapala, the foremost sinhalese supremacist monk of the yesteryears was in the forefront of instigating anti-Muslim and anti-Tamil relations. What more needs to be said about a chauvinist state that neither understands the idea of dharma, but has nuff enthusiasm to make it the state prerogative.

Looks like you're backtracking here? Why is that; it it because Tamil violence and extremism is being exposed? Remember it was you who was pointing fingers at the SInhalese, and now you see that there are many fingers pointing back.

There was a sinhalese soldier who made an attempt on Shri Rajiv Gandhi's life before the LTTE got to him. Who would count that, your father?!

Did Rajiv Gandhi die at the hands of the Sinhalese or the Tamils?

Noone is putting a spin on things, it is all there in black and white for those who want to be informed. SL's history and its raising of the mahawamsa over the last century has been an act of Buddhist revival that has seen its relations with other religions as a zero-sum game. You can either learn to accept facts about your country or put up evidence to the contrary especially when someone has the balls to throw in historical evidences to such a thesis. In short, put up or shut up.

It's pretty obvious you are desperate to drag religion in here and turn it into a Buddhist vs Hindu thing which is far from the truth.
Like I said, Sri Lanka has a far better record of religious harmony than does India. But if you want to believe it is a Buddhist vs Hindu thing, please go on ahead.

Before we get to this bullshite, India is a democracy and any citizen can compete in elections. If the people elect a legitimate candidate, he/she rules. That is the rule of the law. The fact that he may have been an actor/actress is immaterial to this. And there have been enough actors all over the world who have been smart enough to run their countries/states. Nothing, especially common sense, precludes this. So why whine around when you have a better hypothesis to fight?

Oh backtracking again, this time over the movie-star issue. But you're right people get to vote in who they want in a democracy. But the only notable politician from Tamil Nadu I can think of was Abdul Kalam. And he was Muslim. The rest have been just as Sarath Fonseka described them - a bunch of jokers. Next time are they going to give out free fridges and nintendo games to gain votes, after the free tv loses its appeal?

Tamils did not want Tamil to be accorded the numero uno status in the Indian Constitution. They wanted equal rights for all languages. On the contrary, the sinhalese wanted their language, culture and religion to be the pre-dominant one. Ergo, apples and oranges. Sinhalese are chauvinists, Tamils are equal-right seekers. Yes, sinhalese are chauvinists.

If as you say the Tamils want equal rights for all languaes, then why do they not accord official status to Telugu in Tamil Nadu? If I am not mistaken, the Telugu language is spoken by upto 10% of the residents of Tamil Nadu. So why is the Tamil language hoisted over Telugu? Is it because the Tamils want their langage, their culture, and religion o be the pre-dominant one? I have spoken to many non-Tamil Indians who feel that it is the Tamils who are chauvnists with their anti-Hindi stand and their Tamil linguistic extremism. Add the anti-Brahmin, Kerala-baiting, North-Indian baiting, Sinhalese-bating, Sri Lanka-baiting, Kannada-baiting to the mix and I think the Tamils have their own share of chauvinismm which as nothing to do with being "equal right seekers"

There are no justifications for unequal rights for citizens of India, whether they speak Tamil or Hindi. Any GoI or state government that does such an act deserves opprobrium and vilest condemnation. In that aspect, surely the Nehru government of 47-62 was short-sighted. There was course-correction and such a course-correction was applauded by Tamil politicians, essentially from what you call the backward Tamil film industry. There have been less issues once both parties have compromised on goals that are attainable. What goals have been understood between the Tamils and the sinhalese in SL? There is as much anger and condemnation between the sinhalese and Tamils, as there has been between the other two combinations. Thank you.

Hindi is given a position that is not accorded to other languages in India, even though it is not even spoken as a mother tongue by more than 50% of the Indian population. This is despite the fact that India has something like 18 official languages which are supposed to be on par. But Tamil has no place outside of Tamil Nadu. Tamil does not appear on Indian currency, aerogrammes, stamps. Tamils have more linguistic rights in Sri Lanka than they do in India.

Let's see what the Tamil organ Tamil Tribune has to say about this:

"From the very inception of the Indian parliament in 1950, Hindian members had a special privilege over and above non-Hindi members. They can speak in their mother tongue whenever they want. Others have to speak in either Hindi or English, both foreign languages to them. If they know neither English nor Hindi, or just want to express themselves in their mother tongue, they have to get special permission from the speaker of the parliament. The speaker may or may not give permission, or may relegate the speech to a later time or date, while Hindian members can stand up and speak in their mother tongue whenever they please. Non-Hindi members of parliament grudgingly accepted it but now an additional privilege has been bestowed on Hindi speakers. Is it Indian Parliament or Hindian Parliament?"

http://www.tamiltribune.com/03/1202.html

Well in Sri Lanka, Tamils can speak in Tamil freely in national parliament, and they do so. Tamil appears on Sri Lankan currency, stamps, aerogrammes. Tamils can study in the Tamil medium from kindergarten up to and including university.

Yes, and even today TN will refuse to accept Hindi if it is unilaterally bombarded by the force of the GoI. If people do accept it out of their volition, noone (definitely not me) has an issue. Enemies are not seen everywhere, but discriminatory policies are well-understood. So in that sense, the TN population is far more intelligent and accepting of the nuances of the situation that are hot-headed sinhalese extremists. The very fact that the Dravida naadu movement died down is a fact that TN people are intelligent. So take that.

Is that why they self immolate themselves at the drop of a hat?

Second self-immolation in Tamil Nadu over Lanka issue
http://www.zeenews.com/news503380.html

And the Dravida naadu movement is not dead, read Tamil Tribune if don't think so.

Smt. Nirupama Rao was born in what is now Kerala, but is a Kannadiga. Certainly she is one of the most brightest Foreign Service personnel India has ever seen. So shove your comments about Tamils hating her for being a "Malayali." Noone cares about where she was born, she is the Indian Foreign Secretary and holding such a high position as she is, and being in SL before, she knows the TN's viewpoint far better than neanderthals in SL.

I know the truth may hurt. But there has been hate speech about the "backstabbing malayalis who were Tamils only a few hundred years ago but now trying to sabotage the Tamils." If you want to pretend there is no anti-Brahmin sentiment among extremist Tamils either, then please go ahead. But I think you know otherwise.

And Nirupama Rao is indeed a friend of Sri Lanka. She has a close relationship with Rajapaksa which was developed during her stint in Sri Lanka. It is to Sri Lanka's advantage that she is India's foreign secretary.

Get used to it, TN will always be the "monkey wrench" in what you call India-SL relations. There are no two things about it. GoI and GoTN policies are synchronized and if there is a lack of consensus, it will be hammered out. GoTN has hardly whined about GoI in public, so you have no locus standi on this issue.

You're right the Goi and GOTN do go for consensus. But I believe the current GOI knows how to handle Tamil Nadu very well - that is with kid gloves. Massage the Tamil ego and then move on and do what it wants. If the GOI was totally pandering to Tamil Nadu it would have cut off relations with Sri Lanka by now.

The proof of that claim is in the pudding. SL has a far better record is a statement that is only a statement unless everyone around you believes it. You choose to believe what you do, but the fact remains that the SL constitution is a bigoted one, as is Malaysia's bhumiputra policy. The two cases are similar, one is islamic, the other buddhist. No two things about it.

If you don't wish to believe that Sri Lanka has a better record than India when it comes to religious harmony, then by all means do not believe it

[kittoo]

Tanaji, dont be so angry saar. Kashyap isnt running SL policy. Thankfully, relations between SL and India are amiable as of now and it seems GoSL understands the importance of India for them.

[Kashyap]

Interesting view point eh? Get massive Indian aid before and after, spill Indian blood , use Indian Navy's help to secure one's objectives and at the end of it all, curse India and make snide comments about Tamils movie obsession.

One doesn't expect gratitude but...

Jis thaali mein khaate hain usi thaali mein chhed karte hain... INGRATE!

Perhaps India should be grateful that SL got rid of Rajiv Gandhi's killer? Just another way of looking at things.

[Kashyap]

Kashyap, please refrain from rhetoric. Even if you had a valid point, your rhetoric will only drown that. Be calm and then discuss.
It is right that Sri lanka will play the China or Pak (LOL) card, and thats right too that India will see to it, if push comes to shove, that Sri lanka remains in line. Both are facts, its just that how far Sri lanka wants to go. The effects of constant anti-India stance of Pakistan are for everyone to see. The possibility of wooing Nepal (which is far bigger country than Sri Lanka) were more for China, given the geographic proximity, size of Nepal and the power of communists there. But did India just let Nepal go? Did India stop exerting its influence? Similarly, Nepal too did not stop using China card. Its not a threat but a rather simple fact that friendship with India, rather than playing this card or that card, will give much more benefits to Sri Lanka, especially because of its geography. If God forbid, Sri Lanka becomes arrogant because of China or Pak (which I must say, your rhetoric makes you), its a fact that there will be consequences. India is used to neighbors hating it just because of its sheer size. But in the end, all India needs is neighbors not trying to 'teach a lesson' this way or that way, they can hate her all they want. A little co-operation and understanding will benefit both countries. Bangladesh it seems has understood that.

Thanks for replying. The only rhetoric here is how India is going to be like "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" and go on some rampage. I think people are a bit heady jingoistic juice and see an enemy everwhere. Sri Lanka doesn't hate India by any means, but Sri Lanka is suspicious of Tamil Nadu, and elements of India's intelligence agency who have a history or arming, training and funding terror groups in Sri Lanka. The onus on developing inter-state relations doesn't lie only on one country. If you look carefully, it's some posters threatening Sri lanka that "India will teach a lesson if you do this or that" - not the other way around. So I think your advice would be more suited for others rather than me.

I guess I can sum up if like that- sure India will have to pay some price too if Sri Lanka becomes another Pak like neighbor for India, but the price Sri Lanka will pay will be much much higher. You dont have to go anywhere other than Pak to see that, which is far bigger than SL. But why pay any price at all? Why hate India just cause its much bigger and powerful? Now that LTTE is finished, why not go for a route that brings happiness to all? We have excellent historical and cultural relations, lets forge other ones too. Empty rhetoric will not help anyone in the end. Lets see far and long, and not be short-sighted.

You really think Sri Lanka is going to be a "pak like neighbour"? I mean seriously? Pakistan has become quite the bogeyman hasn't it. Suddenly all hell as broken lose because China has taken the time and effort to support Sri Lanka militarily, politically and economically. Well why doesn't India do that then and take away the space from the Chinese? It's unfair to expect Sri Lanka to reject $$ just to old India's frock and go India Sri lanka bhai bhai. But it seems it is much easier to go into delusional fantasies of the Chinese taking over the island and then building a military base and then attacking India and then Pakistan attacking India and then China will attack from the north and then Sri Lanka will arm, train and fund militants in India and then and then...

If India plays her cards right Sri Lanka will be another state of India in every respect but name. The pull factors are the historical and cultural relations you mention; add political, economic and (hopefully) military relations as well. The push factor would be the behaviour and attitude of Tamil nadu, it's anti-Sri Lankan stand and how it influences India's policy towards Sri Lanka.

Like I said, the empty rhetoric has been about how India is going to "teach others a lesson."

[Kashyap]

And yes, I am at ease with your delusional fantasies of India going on a rabid rampage to "teach everyone a lesson."

Like I said before, your tendency for meta-discussion metaphors, just show your weakness, and makes clear that you have delusional fantasies about knowing how I or other Indians think, because otherwise you wouldn't be spouting the rubbish about India nuking this country and that country.

You think the Foreign Policy being made in India would be for simple effect of teaching a lesson to somebody! Teaching lessons is for those who care what you think! As and when India feels that Indian interests in Sri Lanka are jeopardized, and the welfare of the Tamils belongs in that category, then India would reach her conclusions and act accordingly. You can extrapolate whatever you want from 'India would act accordingly'. If you consider it a threat, that is up to you. Whether you take it seriously or not, is up to you.

You can play the China card, if you want, that too is up to you.

All I am saying is, if you some day either get a less-than-cunning person as your prime policy-maker or the outside powers push your hand, or you misread the mood in Delhi or the patience in Chennai, you may very well tip the balance of what is considered, playing your cards well. Then you live with the consequences.

So I hope you can play your cards well. You just have to remember, that you have to keep on playing your cards well for all eternity, because India and Sri Lanka would remain neighbors for a very long time.

Your bravura about Sri Lanka playing cards is based on a snapshot of the last couple of years. History is long! But I don't really want to disturb your party mood or your high!

Yeah we'll see what happens then shall we. I'm looking forward to it.

Sri Lanka has warm and cordial relations with all its neighbours - especially so with India - and is working towards consolidating them.

But India can't say the same. In South Asia India has a good relationship with Sri Lanka, Bhutan and the Maldives. Ever since the communists took over in Nepal that has been suspect.

If India wants to burn its bridges with Sri Lanka because of Tamil Nadu, then that's up to India.

I would hope not though.

If India does not want Sri Lanka to have any contact with China, then India should break off all contact with China first. It would only be fair.

From a Sri Lankan perspective anyone who wants to invest $$ in Sri Lanka should be welcomed with open arms - whether it be India or China or Malaysia or Iran.