LCA News and Discussions

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17051
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 14 Jun 2010 20:29

yep, texturing is a pain isn't it ?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 14 Jun 2010 20:36

The twin aircraft image is truly spectacular. Well done. Are those Matra Magic IIs inboard? :)

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Sanku » 14 Jun 2010 20:37

Gaur, really beautiful renderings.

prashanth
BRFite
Posts: 533
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 16:50
Location: Barad- dyr

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby prashanth » 14 Jun 2010 20:38




Nice work bro...
OT, What mountain is that, in the background? Blends well with the fighters...

Shalav
BRFite
Posts: 589
Joined: 17 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Shalav » 14 Jun 2010 20:58

shiv, down-angled nozzles will push the nose down but then that's why you have flight control software - to maintain ideal pitch angle when landing. Its not as if pitch correction will be disabled during landing.

OTOH with an up-angled nozzle the pilot will be striving to maintain the 10% safety gap between V(stall) and V(touchdown). Which will mean a higher landing speed and thus a longer braking and roll distance.

Short landings with TV nozzles are what we are discussing - no?

In any-case I suspect we will find out soon enough when an MKI or some other TV aircraft does do a short field landing.

Shalav
BRFite
Posts: 589
Joined: 17 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Shalav » 14 Jun 2010 20:58

Gaur,

amazing renders.

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Gaur » 14 Jun 2010 21:00

RahulM: I see, a fellow 3d artist! :)

Shiv: No. The missiles on outermost pylons are r-73 and the other 2 are python-5. I know...a really stupid loadout but I was short on time and this loadout was the easiest and thus the fastest to model.

Sanku, prashanth, Shalav: Thanks. And prashanth, I have no idea regarding the mountain. I got it through google.

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3305
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Tanaji » 14 Jun 2010 21:11

OT: how does one learn the basics of 3D modelling. You may reply on the newbie thread if you wish

sathyaC
BRFite
Posts: 124
Joined: 23 Mar 2010 19:34

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby sathyaC » 14 Jun 2010 21:16



Great work Buddy
now it is my desktop background :D

biswas
BRFite
Posts: 503
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 20:42
Location: Ozzieland

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby biswas » 14 Jun 2010 21:17

Oh, Gaurji, I remember you had asked me some questions about modelling. I'm so sorry, completely slipped my mind, do you still need the help?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 14 Jun 2010 21:39

biswas wrote:Oh, Gaurji, I remember you had asked me some questions about modelling. I'm so sorry, completely slipped my mind, do you still need the help?


I heard a story called the Ramayana today. Who is Sita BTW? :lol:

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5347
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 14 Jun 2010 21:40

Gaur, you've done a good job and I hate being a wet sock, but the nose of the 3-D model is not quite like that of a Tejas..the angle is not right I'm afraid.

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Gaur » 14 Jun 2010 21:47

Tanaji:
See if you can get your hands on video tutorials by "lynda". They have the most excellent series of tutorials for beginners. If you have more queries, then we can discuss it over mail.

sathyaC: Glad you liked it. :)

biswas: No thanks. Problem solved now. :)

Kartik: Yes. I know the model has certain deficiencies. The thing is that it has only been 2 months since I have started learning 3d modelling as a hoby and this is my first aircraft model (and my 3rd model of all). So I am really an newbie in this field. Hopefully my next modelling effort (FGFA) would bring improvement.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7534
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Prasad » 14 Jun 2010 21:49


Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2620
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Cybaru » 14 Jun 2010 22:11

Wow.. thats some beautiful stuff.. Thanks for sharing.

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2732
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby darshhan » 14 Jun 2010 23:04

Rendering is very good.

naird
BRFite
Posts: 281
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 19:41

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby naird » 15 Jun 2010 03:24

Parijat Gaur....you are on Livefist....check it out.....

Copyrights in your name...cheers.

Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Juggi G » 15 Jun 2010 03:37


Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1440
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Craig Alpert » 15 Jun 2010 03:49

^^
IAF is willing to support indigenous programs as long as the products arrive on time, Barbora says. “We are not asking for the Moon. We are willing to wait, but give us what has been promised as per the deadline. We understand it’s not easy to make an aircraft.”

The IAF is currently in a transition phase, with new weapon systems and flying platforms set to be incorporated.

“In the next 10 years, IAF will change. Rapid technological changes pose a huge challenge, and even we need to change. There are no shortcuts in technology and we need to do things [the] right way,” Barbora says.

Meanwhile, Tejas crossed a significant hurdle when two LCAs successfully performed in hot-weather trials (HWTs) at Nagpur last week. Sources told AVIATION WEEK that the week-long HWTs were part of Tejas’ phase II schedule. The first phase was completed in 2008.

“All new systems onboard and avionics were tested with temperatures varying from 40 to 45 degrees Celsius (104 to 114 deg. F.). We had absolutely no issues with these flights, and both platforms rose to the occasion and performed as expected. We had close to 10 flights as part of the trials,” a source says.

The 11th test vehicle in the Tejas flight line is expected to fly soon as the program heads toward initial operational clearance in December. Weapons trials also are on the horizon.

“All the software will have to go into the final configuration of Tejas along with the flight control system and sensors. LSP-5 will be next. From LSP-3 flight, the multi-mode radar is onboard and this is clearly an indication as to our rapid progress in the program,” the source says. “We will be testing beyond-visual range missiles first and at a later stage the air-to-ground missiles which will take Tejas closer to the final operational clearance.”


Confirming the successful HWTs, P.S. Subramanyam, program director for combat aircraft and director of the Aeronautics Development Agency, says that one limited series production-3 aircraft and another prototype vehicle-3 from the Tejas fleet were part of the HWTs at Nagpur.

“Both aircraft are back in Bangalore and we are happy with what we have achieved. We are analyzing the data and will now move toward our next mission,” Subramanyam says.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby chackojoseph » 15 Jun 2010 09:30

:D What about the foreign products which come late? For example, M2K's needed in 1990's haven't arrived even by 2010.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 15 Jun 2010 09:53

and MKI was a decade long affair from 30K to Mki-1 - 2 - 3

Bala Vignesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2017
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Bala Vignesh » 15 Jun 2010 09:57

Forget the MKI... Remember the Hawks... it took more than 2 decades to get here...

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7534
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Prasad » 15 Jun 2010 09:59

Who does finish programs on time when it deals with totally new tech and ground up expertise buildup!! I mean, asking for the moon and being nonchalant about it takes the cake!

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby disha » 15 Jun 2010 10:19

Craig Alpert wrote:
IAF is willing to support indigenous programs as long as the products arrive on time, Barbora says. “We are not asking for the Moon. We are willing to wait, but give us what has been promised as per the deadline. We understand it’s not easy to make an aircraft.”


I am assuming our esteemed ACM was present when Jaguar were inducted into IAF. If he was, I welcome him to a walk down the memory lane:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/86738/30%20Years%20Ago%20on%20India%20Today/A+Jaguar+without+teeth+(May+1-15,+1980).html
Like the mythological, multi-headed Hydra, the Rs 1,500-crore Jaguar deal keeps growing an extra head as soon as one is chopped off. India's largest-ever defence purchase has attracted more verbal flak than any other comparable acquisition.

Last fortnight, the Jaguar threatened to resurrect yet another flurry of controversy following murmurs of discontent from people actually involved in the operation of the aircraft. And, though the murmurs were characteristically muted, the implications were serious enough. Informed sources have made the alarming claim that 18 months after the original deal was signed, the aircraft supplied to India is totally non-operational for combat purposes. The sources have claimed that the aircraft's manufacturers, British Aerospace, are yet to supply the promised and much publicised armaments for the Jaguar. The sources also insist that they have faced considerable teething problems with the aircraft.

--by Dilip Bobb


So if Jaguars can be inducted without weapons not even supplied, why cannot the IAF do the same with LCA? The concept of blocks or mark or versioning is not new to the software industry. A product is launched and it goes through several iterations, some more controlled then others. A LCA mk-II will be say LCA flying with Kaveri (even with 90% of promised capacity). A mk-III will be LCA+Kaveri improved+AESA so on and so forth, with a 20-30 year plan! Sure if we can still fly Mig-21 BIS now, we can do the same with LCA and mid-course collect all the incremental updates into say a ground breaking aircraft say MCA or MCUAV or some such thing. Just my two cents.

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1268
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Nihat » 15 Jun 2010 10:38

Exactlyl and following up on this I wont mind if the defence ministry forces another squadron of LCA (addition to 40) down the IAF's throat. This extra scrutiny which indegenious weapon systems have to undergo prior to induction is quite shameful, some semblense of addiction has possibly creeped into the armed forces mentality which needs to be gotten rid of ASAP.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 15 Jun 2010 11:08

Well IAF is being quite reasonable in demanding what has been promised and to be delivered on time , plus he does mention he is willing to wait.

We can well compare Jaguar purchase 30 years back or the state of Mig-21 purchase 50 years back that has no relevance for LCA program or its induction.

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1653
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Sid » 15 Jun 2010 11:30

Austin wrote:Well IAF is being quite reasonable in demanding what has been promised and to be delivered on time , plus he does mention he is willing to wait.

We can well compare Jaguar purchase 30 years back or the state of Mig-21 purchase 50 years back that has no relevance for LCA program or its induction.


Totally agree, designers (ADA/DRDO) along with customers should well define in PDP which feature will go into which milestone.

If they said they will deliver 100% in one go then that is it. If they say they will provide AA capability in phase one and AG capability in phase two then say so during the schedule planning stage not when you are near the deadline.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 15 Jun 2010 11:32

Prasad wrote:Who does finish programs on time when it deals with totally new tech and ground up expertise buildup!! I mean, asking for the moon and being nonchalant about it takes the cake!


And how did you arrive at the conclusion that IAF asked for the moon?

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 15 Jun 2010 11:33

disha wrote:
<SNIP>

So if Jaguars can be inducted without weapons not even supplied, why cannot the IAF do the same with LCA? The concept of blocks or mark or versioning is not new to the software industry. A product is launched and it goes through several iterations, some more controlled then others. A LCA mk-II will be say LCA flying with Kaveri (even with 90% of promised capacity). A mk-III will be LCA+Kaveri improved+AESA so on and so forth, with a 20-30 year plan! Sure if we can still fly Mig-21 BIS now, we can do the same with LCA and mid-course collect all the incremental updates into say a ground breaking aircraft say MCA or MCUAV or some such thing. Just my two cents.


How is this related to the LCA Development Story?

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby disha » 15 Jun 2010 11:35

Yes lately IAF has been reasonable. For eg. LCH orders while LCH is in TD stage proves that. At the same time, IAF cannot ignore history. HF-Marut and LCA has parallels, centering around Engine for example. It is just that several opportunities were wasted due to instransigence of the armed forces. Arjun is another example. If we have not to repeat history, it has to be remembered.

Regarding promised delivery, changes in requirement is a big no. It takes quite a fortitude to not panic and change requirements midway just because something similar is promised in a foreign brochure.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby disha » 15 Jun 2010 11:41

rohitvats wrote:How is this related to the LCA Development Story?


Elementary Dr. Watson. Precendence (or rather a mis-treatment). Anyway, we can wash-rinse-repeat-rehash about the LCA story and how things changed in between and how ADA/HAL were unfair to IAF and vice-versa. Bottomline is, if there is experienced gain and processes improved, it will be good for all.

Again LCH is a project one can watch towards to see if lessons were indeed learnt. I am just glad that 10 years down LCA is going to be inducted., hopefully in large numbers. My uncle will be proud.

kapilrdave
BRFite
Posts: 1566
Joined: 17 Nov 2008 13:10

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby kapilrdave » 15 Jun 2010 12:27

^^^^Hmmm... so you think 10 more years for induction is ok? Interesting.

Earlier you said IAF should induct unfinished Tejas in numbers because Jaguars came in uncompleted shape!! Keep it up.

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Sanku » 15 Jun 2010 12:31

At least the Jags already had IOC before GoI even showed a interest in them.

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1289
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby RKumar » 15 Jun 2010 12:38

OT alert ... Sanku, Kapilrdave, disha, Nihat, Austin !!!

DERRRRRAIL ALERTTTTTT.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 15 Jun 2010 13:07

disha wrote:Elementary Dr. Watson. Precendence (or rather a mis-treatment). Anyway, we can wash-rinse-repeat-rehash about the LCA story and how things changed in between and how ADA/HAL were unfair to IAF and vice-versa. Bottomline is, if there is experienced gain and processes improved, it will be good for all.

<SNIP>



First you make a completely unrelated argument and somehow try to show that IAF has been more accomodating of foreign products and then, when you're questioned to explain the rationale behind your post, you come up with still more nonsense?

Bottomline is this - You made a completely unrelated argument and nonsensical to boot

kapilrdave
BRFite
Posts: 1566
Joined: 17 Nov 2008 13:10

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby kapilrdave » 15 Jun 2010 13:18

Actually I read positives in that news post.
That shows that IAF really do care about the project and they want the product.
Actually it is really not understandable that why some people here think that IAF wants to kill the program!!!
In fact IMO IAF really/badly wants Tejas in Numbers

vic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2412
Joined: 19 May 2010 10:00

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby vic » 15 Jun 2010 13:23

Nihat wrote:Exactlyl and following up on this I wont mind if the defence ministry forces another squadron of LCA (addition to 40) down the IAF's throat. This extra scrutiny which indegenious weapon systems have to undergo prior to induction is quite shameful, some semblense of addiction has possibly creeped into the armed forces mentality which needs to be gotten rid of ASAP.


I agree totally! In fact ADA is already raising a demand that the order for 40LCA should go up to 60. But the fact remains that IAF has last signed a contract with HAL on 26th March 2006 for 20 LCA only and have not even signed the contract for next 20 let alone next 40.

Having said that I think that LSP continues to be 2 tons overweight. (flame jacket on :D ). The real performance of LCA will be appreciated with LSP6 to 8, which I believe will not have test instrumentation.

So I think that LCA can proceed as follows :-

LSP - overweight 2000kg

20 Block 1 - overweight 1500kg

20 Block 2 - overweight 1000kg i.e. MTOW of 6500kg which is being already publicised in HAL/ADA brochures

20 Block 3 - overweight 500kg i.e. MTOW 6000kg which will work with current engine and reduce pressure to deliver LCA Mark 2 quickly

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby chackojoseph » 15 Jun 2010 14:30

:lol: Talking about IAF's ASR skills. I will repeat this story. I attended Dubai Airshow and asked the Sukhoi guy when they expected to deliver the MKI's? He was blunt, he said let your air force make up its mind and come up with the ASR. This in 2003. If someone can google the date of accord signing and the date of induction of SU-30MKI full spec, you will know what I am talking about.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17051
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 15 Jun 2010 15:30

chacko please don't. I know your heart is in the right place but many would take this as an opportunity to do some mindless bashing. you do have that responsibility as a noted defence journo. ;)

rohit, yes there is some truth to the story that some aspects of the LCA ASR became obsolete before it should have, put it down to IAF's inexperience in such matters. the time we did miss a trick was in the 90's when the revision in ASR should have taken place but didn't due to apathy towards the program. it finally did in middle of this decade, during ACM Tyagi's tenure IIRC.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby chackojoseph » 15 Jun 2010 15:39

Rahul M wrote:chacko please don't. I know your heart is in the right place but many would take this as an opportunity to do some mindless bashing. you do have that responsibility as a noted defence journo. ;)

rohit, yes there is some truth to the story that some aspects of the LCA ASR became obsolete before it should have, put it down to IAF's inexperience in such matters. the time we did miss a trick was in the 90's when the revision in ASR should have taken place but didn't due to apathy towards the program. it finally did in middle of this decade, during ACM Tyagi's tenure IIRC.


I admitted I am bashing and stopping.

rohitvats,

If you remember the DRDO AWACS story, it was the first time that DRDO was specific that it was late due to IAF (ASR capability). Also, we heard that it was due to the experience with IAF on LCA that DRDO was specific about it. I was also specific in my story

Logically the IAF has asked for 7 extra executive chairs for additional 5 operators and 2 pilots. Hence there has been 3 years delay in the signing of Embraer platform.


Addred later....

I just noticed but many would take this as an opportunity to do some mindless bashing

Who, anyone in particular?


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests