chackojoseph wrote:
Dear Rohitvats,
You have had first experience on the kargil thread. All you had to do was shoot the question in my email. I have mentioned the limitations on mail. You still went ahead and did the same thing.
Secondly, as a jingo, I pointed out the double standard of ACM. I never said he mentioned LCA. Please read carefully.
Sorry Sir, that is not how it is going to work out with me at least - every time you post something or make a claim, you expect people to shoot out an e-mail to you? Do you think that is practically possible? Please correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm sure there is enough material in the open space to prove what your assertions were.
This is the reason I asked you not to allude to "confidential sources" when asked for details.
As for the you naming LCA somewhere - you forget that your drew allusions to LCA ASR by giving example of AWECS. I actually hate doing this but this is what you wrote -
If you remember the DRDO AWACS story, it was the first time that DRDO was specific that it was late due to IAF (ASR capability). Also, we heard that it was due to the experience with IAF on LCA that DRDO was specific about it
What do you want me to make of it?
How much delay you want to know? Ok,
Two and a half years back, under a request from a jingo, I called up ADA. It was revealing. The LSP was supposed to be in air, but, our friends in a heated meeting over one part of the plane. The LSP finally flew after delay. I hope you will figure out the LSP. It had a cascading effect on the rest of the schedule. Friends from IAF wanted to add/modify something that could have been incorporated in next. It was a deviation from the original. I hope you don't want more details on the incident.
Again, I had requested you to give both sides of the story - the above example is how the DRDO/people in-charge felt about it. There is no word why IAF wanted that piece of equipment during the LSP phase. And no, I cannot figure out the LSP, for I don't have the necessary technical background nor the required hold on the subject. And hence, I asked the question(s).
Actually, see, when you ask a question, its logical the person who answers wants to know what do you know extra. What is wrong in that? See , its not a one way communication. I was expecting a genuine reply from you like a true jingo. Now days, even a TTE is asked to flash his Id before we hand over the ticket to him for inspection. I am only trying to give you an analogy. If i asnwer in a way, you will say, its not this I wanted, i wanted this way.
CJ, what do you want to me to make out this statement? What kind of argument is this?
There is a thing or two that I know about the Orbat and T&OE of the Indian Army. Some time back, I made an effort to put down the T&OE of the IA on BRF so that everyone could be on the same plane. Even now, when an article or reports comes out, or there is a development, I try and analyze the same and put it on BRF.
If I take your line of reasoning - I should have not even done that. For I know for sure, that expect for some ex-IA types or with link to IA (and good links at that) or with very good reading of militaty matters, most of the BRFites would have no way of knowing the T&OE of IA or the Orbat. Should I ask each and every BRFite about what he knows before I pen down my thoughts or reply? Are we not here to share and learn?
And as for the analogy argument - Good Sir, In case you know the answer to the question that I raised, you could have easily penned down couple of bullet points highlighting the so called short-comings in the ASR. And no, I don't need to know the exact ASR - for I'm sure no one is public domain has seen it, but broad points. And the fact is - you've not been able to do that. It does not matter what I know - I've already told you that I know zilch. And that is why I'm not passing judgement on the IAF and LCA Development Story. I did that in case of Arjun - but I ensured I know enough on the subject ( I read your website end to end) before I made the first post. So, tomorrow if someone asks me if IA erred in case of Arjun, I'll say yes. And I'll give my reasons for the same.
You've passed judgement on the IAF in LCA Story and you need to provide an honest and straightforward answer.
If you read my comments before your first question, I have not referred LCA, did I? I have not second guessed your motive. I think, you got that wrong there.
Actually, instead of bickering, I was planning to make a whole chart on the LCA schedules if you would have managed to type out what you know as a respected member of the forum. we could still do it.
Sorry Sir, I don't know anything and hence, cannot be of any use in this case.
However, this is my last post on the topic - for this discussion is not going anywhere.
I have request for fellow BRFites - it seems that it has become fashionable to bash the Defence Services without bothering to read up on the topic and using proper logic and argument. Yes, the Defence Services have screwed up in many cases and please, go ahead and call a spade as spade. But let us not generalize and trivialize these things. Let us be very careful before we have the urge to pass a disparaging remark.
Its time we create DRDO vs Armed Forces thread.
I think i kept LCA out of this..ha ha ha..