The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 11 Jun 2010 22:01

Rangadu garu...very nice reasoning...please present your opinion also...would like to read it
I wish there are moles in WH working for GoI.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jun 2010 22:04

99% of all analsyes is based on having an open mind.
Moles etc will give you the sacred poop or classified waste.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jun 2010 22:11

Tanaji wrote:
Sanku wrote: Unnamed sources all, but on this level even a mainstream web publisher (very supportive of party in power usually) talking about the event being nothing more than showboating is significant.
Eh Sanku, I thought for you, "unnamed sources" were verboten or rather nyet as per the C-17 thread? Now, you are quoting an article that quotes unnamed sources? I suppose its kosher since it agrees with your viewpoint eh?

I keep saying its a matter of assigning probabilities to the believability of an item...

Not really if you see, I am commenting on the fact that even a mainstream web publisher (very supportive of party in power usually) talking about the event being nothing more than showboating is significant with a clear caveat Unnamed sources and all

I am not talking taking this as final word but rather more commenting on the comments in the media. A meta comment.

There are patterns in what the media says, so if suddenly media discovers C 17, possibly lifafa, if media is consistently putting out negative reports on this interrogation, why?

That is, if you see, is the question.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 11 Jun 2010 22:11

Ramana Sir...I agree with what you say..I was only wishful about such moles providing inputs to our policy makers...not to me on a public forum.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 11 Jun 2010 22:15

Venkarl,

My view is that while we can expect Unkil to pretend that Headley's "revelations" don't exist, GoI has no reason to play ball.

India might have an interest in playing along had Unkil shared information in enough detail and in advance and prevented 26/11 and follow ups. But given that 26/11 did happen and the people who did it are laughing and planning more, GoI has every reason to call out the links and force Unkil to put up or shut up.

In other words, if MMS had told Obama that he was going to publicly share what we all know and you can either contradict it or confirm it, we would know where US stands. Giving this weasel option to Unkil is pathetic.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Jun 2010 22:27

Rangudu wrote: 4. Why is GoI not putting any of the above as key items in India's dealings with the US?
etc.

Because Unkil will show the middle finger and say kiss my ass. And in any case, MMS has too much respect and admiration for US/UK to put India's interests above theirs.

E.g. MMS could tell Obama that unless the US publicly acknowledges LeT = State actor, any US request to India would not be considered etc.

What possible request would US make to India that can be denied? Etch-one-Bee Visa seeking Indians by the 1000s lining up in queues outside US consulates?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 11 Jun 2010 22:29

CRS

India is doomed, india is doomed, india is doomed...

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 11 Jun 2010 22:38

GoI has every reason to call out the links and force Unkil to put up or shut up.

Exactly, with this DCH episode, if NIA team without any deceptive techniques, interrogates DCH in a wired room, then we might be giving away info to unkil unknowingly which unkil can trade with PA to stave off any threats to US assets from Taliban. I feel GoI is nicely walking into a trap.

Is this entire case about NIA interrogating DCH? or Unkil probing India's stance? Its worrisome...I might be over reacting too..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jun 2010 22:46

Venkarl, Do you know the Panchatantra story about the "Tiger, Brahmin and the Jackal"? What do you think about the role of the Jackal?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Jun 2010 22:52

CRamS wrote:
What possible request would US make to India that can be denied? Etch-one-Bee Visa seeking Indians by the 1000s lining up in queues outside US consulates?

Passing the nuke liability bill exactly as desired by the US?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jun 2010 22:58

chetak wrote:
CRamS wrote:
What possible request would US make to India that can be denied? Etch-one-Bee Visa seeking Indians by the 1000s lining up in queues outside US consulates?

Passing the nuke liability bill exactly as desired by the US?

I think that or something like that is precisely the issue, US wants something which MMS cant deliver, note, I say cant, not that he doesn't want too, but cant because its held back by Indian institutional pressure.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 11 Jun 2010 23:16

ramana wrote:Venkarl, Do you know the Panchatantra story about the "Tiger, Brahmin and the Jackal"? What do you think about the role of the Jackal?

I'm humbled by your post Ramana....do you see a Jackal in NIA?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Jun 2010 23:32

Rangudu wrote:CRS

India is doomed, india is doomed, india is doomed...

Oh please. I predicetd this damp squib way back. It was clear to me all along that some eventual tamasha like what we saw last week will be allowed. Hope the questioning team at least had some time to do some shopping in Chicago

. If India/MMS could have done the kinds of things you mentioned, they would have done so long ago and demanded access to DCH instead of begging. Now Rajdeep & Co will kick in to bat for MMS saying what a great achievement this was bla bla. And in any case, no matter what DCH would have told our guys about TSPA/ISI, MMS is not going to stop his bhaichara with his long-lost TSP brothers. The only fall out I see is loosing out on any info about local modules. But even on that count, given MMS looses sleep, I wonder what the sleuths would have done with that info.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Jun 2010 23:49

CRamS wrote: Because Unkil will show the middle finger and say kiss my ass. And in any case, MMS has too much respect and admiration for US/UK to put India's interests above theirs.

Or, MMS and others believe that the West is all goody-good-chaps, and can do no wrong.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 12 Jun 2010 10:07

CRS,

Your prediction is always one thing. India is doomed, we are all f-ed, we have no hope, TSP is winning, we need to bend over etc. Crying wolf all the time is tiring, with all due respect.

In reality, regardless of MMS/UPA fecklessness, India has enough cards to play should we get leadership that chooses to do so.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 Jun 2010 14:28

What ever happens with the DCH saga, at the top, the leadership realizes that their action vis-a-vis the US are tempered by the fact that India needs the US and the western countries to trade more with, get tech from and to grow. Also the NRI crowd that disses MMS and GoI as being weak kneed will be up in arms if GoI really takes the action that they want it to take.

Please understand the nuances and the tight rope walk that GoI has to do all the time.

What does India want from DCH?
1. Intel to prevent further attacks?
2. Statement verifiable in court of law implicating the men behind 26/11.
3. Punishment for DCH for the role he's played in the mayhem and the cold blooded murder of innocent people.

If DCH gets brought to India, all that India can do is another round of dossier pe dossier which the ISI will LOL at. With DCH in custody in the US, and headed for a long prison term, and sharing / corroborating intel with the NIA, he can be a very useful tool for GoI. He can be used to send shivers down the spine of the ISI officials who indulge in terror if GoI is persisitant.

Any pragmatic person will realize, that the chances of serving officers of the ISI, and people like Hafiz Saeed, being extradited to India are negligible. They will not be given up by pakistan. The pakistanis didn't give up AQ Khan because he's too much in the limelight, quoting H&D issues. (It is another matter that AQ Khan probably got his musharraf nicely probed by the CIA etc in private). With Pakistan-India relations being what they are, any thing that comes out in the limelight will not get solved, too much bureaucratic baggage. The only recouse is then that massa twists the various fingers it has in pakistan's musharraf, when India asks it to, to get these scumbags to their just ends quietly and privately - the ISI gets warned that too big an assault like 26/11 gets the wheel of justice rolling across the world, and that the axe will surely and eventually fall on the officers who planned and carried it out.

Besides,
Pakistan GUBOs in private, even to India.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 13 Jun 2010 21:00

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/law-u ... s/633089/3

DESPITE the assurances of the US government, when the four member team of sleuths from India arrived in Chicago last Sunday to interrogate David Headley, it was denied access to the accused in the Mumbai 26/11 terror attack. Indian officers were only permitted to talk to Headley’s lawyer. Fortunately for the National Investigation Agency team, External Affairs Minister S M Krishna also happened to be in the US last week for the Indo-US strategic talks. After Krishna took up the issue directly with the US National Security Adviser, Jim Jones, the Indian team was finally permitted to personally cross question Headley last Wednesday, though in the presence of his lawyer and American officials.

some co-operation this

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 13 Jun 2010 22:06

The indian express news story is completely contrary to the earlier story about complete access.

What gives?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Jun 2010 22:45

Gagan:

Enough wishful thinking that plotters of 26/11 will be brought to justice. I am one of those NRIs who are mighty pissed with MMS. And I am also one of those NRIs, who after makiing trips to India in the recent past realize that for most of the Indian public, making ends meet and making something of themsleves is of paramount importance than TSP (nothing wrong with that, SDREs are normal people after all). I am also one of those NRIs who believe that there is not a chance in thin air that India can advnace without the mercy of US & its western lackeys. This is a reality. And finally, I am also one of those NRIs who has resigned to the humiliating fact that a 7-times larger India can do diddly squat, militarily speaking that is, to TSP's terrorist provocations. India as a whole, people, govt, military; collectively have failed to evolve a strategy to put TSP in its place where it belongs.

But surely, as an NRI, I realize as most do, that India can do a lot better than MMS & Co. It is MMS's "South Asia" ideology that I have a problem with. He is an accidental, privilaged PM who has absolutely no civilizational affinity to most people he rules over. What can one say about a PM who worries about the well being of Pakis under his "South Asia" tent than he does about farmers in Andhra Pradesh, or auto drivers in Karnataka, or fishermen in Tamil Nadu? As we have argued over and over again, even a weak country like India can show a lot more nationalism and spine than what we are seeing under MMS. A bogus 10% growth under MMS, but ignoring the Isalmist threat will come back to haunt India. Even if MMS's vision were to bear fruit, India will be redeuced to a "South Asian" federation bereft of any soul, and any sense of nationhood. Thats the path MMS and Sonia want India to adopt.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jun 2010 10:22

I have this penchant of asking innocuous questions which seem silly. But once in awhile they hit paydirt!!!

X-Post..

Sachin wrote:
ramana wrote:Any update on the Major from Bihar Regt case?
A local language daily has a small report today. It seems agencies have found out that data from the Major's laptop was pulled out through servers located in Pakistan and another country. It seems the major's email ID was found in Headley's mailing list and that is how we got the first clue. There are also speculations that the data was pulled out when the laptop was in the custody of NIA and MI. As per the report the laptop contained lots of presentations etc,. which were not connected to the official work of the Major.

Has Indian English media picked it up?

And think of the implications and what could the NIA have been asking DCH!

And think how deep the penetration is that the laptop was tampered after the NIA and MI have custody of it!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 15 Jun 2010 21:05

x-Post from the Intelligence thread..

ramana wrote:Any update on the Major from Bihar Regt case?

A local language daily has a small report today. It seems agencies have found out that data from the Major's laptop was pulled out through servers located in Pakistan and another country. It seems the major's email ID was found in Headley's mailing list and that is how we got the first clue. There are also speculations that the data was pulled out when the laptop was in the custody of NIA and MI. As per the report the laptop contained lots of presentations etc,. which were not connected to the official work of the Major.

Edited: Loose translation....

Information in Major's laptop stolen from Pakistan.

New Delhi: The security agency now investigating how information from the laptop of a Major posted in Andaman, have identified that the data was a stolen using a server in Pakistan. This security agency also found that the NIA and MI officers who investigated this earlier had ignored the details in the computer, and more information was stolen when this laptop was in their custody.

It has been found that the computer was used by multiple people at the same time. Other than from Pakistan data was also stolen using a server in another country. The investigation began when the officer's e-mail ID was found When David Headleys e-mails were being scrutinised. A lot of agencies had interrogated the Major on this regard. It was the US agencies which alerted the Indian agencies of the Major's E-Mail ID present in Headley's E-mai.

The agencies have now found out that the officer have violated the secrecy related rules multiple times. The information found on his laptop was not related to his area/nature of work. Around 2500 presentations pertaining to defence matters were to be in the laptop, said the investigation officials. The computer has been sent to the Central Forensic Science Lab for further analysis.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jun 2010 01:30

CRamS,
Sorry for the late reply.
I am in general agreement with what you state. But I will nit pick the areas where my view diverges from yours.

CRamS wrote:I am also one of those NRIs who has resigned to the humiliating fact that a 7-times larger India can do diddly squat, militarily speaking that is, to TSP's terrorist provocations. India as a whole, people, govt, military; collectively have failed to evolve a strategy to put TSP in its place where it belongs.

Sir-ji, I am frustrated by India's inabilities on this front, but I also see that the US - 70 times larger than TSP can do diddly squat against the Pak fauj and the ISI. The americans are no fools, they created the ISI, Taliban, and the people who went on to create Al-Qaida were known intimately to them on first names basis, a remnant of the afghan jihad. Yet we see the US continuing to lose soldiers in Afghanistan - 1000, by the latest account and one third of the number who died when the twin towers collapsed.
Yet the US does not bomb the crap out of pakistan to kingdom come. I ask why? Is the US not capable? Is the US blind to the shenanigans of the Pakistani army leadership?
I suspect that the answer lies somewhere in the fact that there is more to be gained by diplomatically engaging with the pakistanis - a long and tiresome path, than the short term gain, but ultimately disastrous path of bombing them out.

Let us not diss MMS any more than is necessary. Everyone is aware of his weaknesses as a PM and as a PM candidate. But I fail to see him not taking the required steps to safeguard India, and protect India's interests.
Isn't every critical military need being met? Isn't the ICBM (A5), Nuclear Subs, Aircraft Carriers, India's engagement in Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, being still pursued vigorously? I don't notice any slack. Isn't the US more pro-India today than it ever was? I suspect all this has been achieved without the PM having passed on the keys to the stable to the US.
I have grown up hearing about this guy and that guy allegedly being CIA agents. One look across the border comparing Pakistani Senior Army officers and politicians, and comparing them to the ones that India has, leaves me with no doubt as to who has sold their souls and their country to the Americans.

Have faith. I have stopped jumping at every decision that GoI takes, I have seen that in retrospect they arrived at that decision and things did turn out right.

JMT.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2010 01:34

I for am not disheartened for I see that India is doing atleast what it can. Not what it should which is much mire but then we dont know the real state of the situation.

I think gagan or swamyg it will be very useful if we do a mind map of what we know about DCH so far with dates.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2010 21:44

sum et al., If the Major's e-mail was on DCH e-mail list and his computer is being hacked by servers in TSP and onward to another country, doesn't it mean that DCH is more than a rogue US intelligence agent who was working for LeT? His operation were still in process much after he was "removed"! And to make matters worse his computer gets erased after its taken into custody of the MI and NIA!

So was the erasure by TSP moles or Uncle's moles? Or joint as DCH was?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Jun 2010 22:40

ramana wrote:sum et al., If the Major's e-mail was on DCH e-mail list and his computer is being hacked by servers in TSP and onward to another country, doesn't it mean that DCH is more than a rogue US intelligence agent who was working for LeT? His operation were still in process much after he was "removed"! And to make matters worse his computer gets erased after its taken into custody of the MI and NIA!

So was the erasure by TSP moles or Uncle's moles? Or joint as DCH was?

Why was this major on the mailing list? What were they exchanging, especially with a major who is in the Andamans? Something doesn't seem right.

If this guy wanted to send presentations, I am sure he could have just put the info on a USB and posted it to an address or something of that sort. Or even "lose" his laptop accidentally, upload presentations onto a server where the recipient can download. There are a hundred ways to exchange info with a handler, why this one. There has to be more to it.

Also, Why did the US give this major away? They could have just stayed quiet and got access to info. Why the change? Would GoI have found out anyway about this major and US wanted to show they are on India's side?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 19 Jun 2010 19:42

Daily Times article on Headley
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_3

He visited Afghanistan several times to trap the drug mafia. He was in contact with jihadi networks as well. He was booked for his involvement in the Denmark terror plan but escaped the death sentence, once again by the ‘plea bargain’ strategy. By then, he was totally in the hands of the secret agencies.

He was the major facilitator in the Mumbai attack. He provided maps, photographs, even GPS systems to the attackers. He visited Pakistan, Afghanistan and India several times. How were his trips funded? Did he use his half brother Danyal Gilani, the PRO to the prime minister, in any way? Was the CIA, FBI, IB or some other agency involved in planning the Mumbai carnage? Did they suppress the information for covert motives and let the attack happen? Such questions need answers.

Headley is the product of a broken home, a split nationality, neglect by society, influence of the mafia and totally inhuman exploitation by secret agencies. No one fulfilled their social responsibility. Parents, friends and society all ignored him while he needed help. He ended up as what he is — a menace, with the prospect of spending the rest of his life in jail and further manipulation. The best that Indian investigators can achieve now is to identify the terror networks, share information and save future targets from destruction.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 20 Jun 2010 16:09

NIA team has come back to India, apparently, and lot of inspired leaks are available in media as to what info DCH gave. I have a question. Is it the only access to DCH and quota is over? NIA might like to compare notes and verify facts on the ground and go back to DCH for further questioning. Is it indicated anywhere in unkil assurances or media leaks that multiple accesses as and when needed would be available? Or now is it time for PK to be given access in == game?

How come no one is talking of extraditing him to India, now? Sending a request would be next step.
I can only hope that this is not a one time pass which would be flogged to death for showing unkil generosity .

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Jun 2010 17:47

A_Gupta wrote:Daily Times article on Headley
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_3

Headley is the product of a broken home, a split nationality, neglect by society, influence of the mafia and totally inhuman exploitation by secret agencies. No one fulfilled their social responsibility. Parents, friends and society all ignored him while he needed help. He ended up as what he is — a menace, with the prospect of spending the rest of his life in jail and further manipulation.

The op-ed was all right over all. But, he omits an important entity from the list bolded above. The single most important entity that must be blamed is the GoP, for several reasons, not the least of which is reposing faith in 'non-state actor' terror organizations to carry out state's foreign policy by creating and supporting them to the hilt. GoP is complicit in pushing not only its citizens but also those from elsewhere into terrorism.

James B · Post by **James B** » 20 Jun 2010 19:51

LeT actively operative in India: Headley report

The National Investigation Agency’s (NIA) initial investigation reports on David Coleman Headley, the American Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative, accused of 26/11 Mumbai attacks, suggest that the LeT is actively doing surveys in major parts of the country even today.

These surveys are mainly carried out by visiting agents and not by activating sleeper cells.

Sources say 26/11 attack was well planned and many options also identified including Central government offices and place of residents of senior politicians.

The report also suggests that it was Headley who convinced his handlers to carry out a terror strike at the Taj Hotel in Mumbai and they even knew about the hotel occupancy at the time of attack.

Headley’s job was to make detailed report of point of entry, exit, availability of defending force in that particular area, extent of damage they can do and kind of damage they are going to face.

Headley operated with the help of local friends as support but none of them aware of his intentions.

As part of the cooperation and partnership between the United States and India in the fight against international terrorism, Indian law enforcement officials were provided direct access to interview" Headley lodged in a Chicago jail.

The NIA team was led by Loknath Behera and had been in Chicago since early last week. They conducted the interviews away from the media glare. It is possible that not disclosing anything to the media was part of the ground rules set by Headley's attorney John Theis. It was not even revealed where Headley was questioned. There was a virtual news blackout until June 11 when the Justice Department issued a short statement

Here is headley's clear picture I have seen so far

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 20 Jun 2010 20:42

mofo's right eye is lighter than his left....bchd s@@l@

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Jun 2010 20:50

Venkarl wrote:mofo's right eye is lighter than his left....bchd s@@l@

Boss, its a totally different color. Not just lighter.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jun 2010 21:11

TV news says Headley was recruited for Denmark op but Hafiz saeed inducted him for Mumbai and he took the surveillance videos. He has named all the people involved in 26/11 and the army links.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Jun 2010 07:04

shiv wrote:TV news says Headley was recruited for Denmark op but Hafiz saeed inducted him for Mumbai and he took the surveillance videos. He has named all the people involved in 26/11 and the army links.

Does it mean that the Professor saheb snatched Headly from Ilyas Kashmiri ? How did Professor saheb know that a certain Headley was being recruited for the Denmark ops ? Who could have been common between the two groups except the PA handlers ?

archan · Post by **archan** » 21 Jun 2010 08:01

chetak wrote:
Venkarl wrote:mofo's right eye is lighter than his left....bchd s@@l@

Boss, its a totally different color. Not just lighter.

Might have forgotten to put on the lens.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 21 Jun 2010 08:10

^ To repeat what has been posted before, DCH is an Ocular Albino.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 21 Jun 2010 11:40

the indian team took notes on paper during interrogation. No video, not even audio recording of the event.
now why would they not do so? Dont they feel that there is something that they could pick up later by analysing the recording.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 21 Jun 2010 19:17

AdityaM wrote:the indian team took notes on paper during interrogation. No video, not even audio recording of the event.
now why would they not do so? Dont they feel that there is something that they could pick up later by analysing the recording.

Audio recorders are like how big? A pack of cards? Everyone in India who deal with interviews have them. Journos never leave home without them.

I dont think that (a) The team felt it was unnecessary (b) Didnt have access to it (c) Forgot to take it along.

Unkil would have disallowed it.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Jun 2010 08:40

Wouldn't the whole interrogation / interview room be video and audio bugged?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2010 09:36

AdityaM wrote:the indian team took notes on paper during interrogation. No video, not even audio recording of the event.
now why would they not do so? Dont they feel that there is something that they could pick up later by analysing the recording.

Cynical and selected deniability by uncle at a later date and to a large extent controlling the situation by motivated leaks to kiss the paki butt.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2010 09:38

Gagan wrote:Wouldn't the whole interrogation / interview room be video and audio bugged?

Definitely by amreki intel.

They will need to debrief their paki handlers so that the Indians do not catch them with their pants down.