West Asia News and Discussions

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 16 Jun 2010 09:17

Turkish Dilemma

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... sh_dilemma

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 16 Jun 2010 09:17

Turkey and the Neocons

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/201 ... he_neocons

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 16 Jun 2010 10:40

Letter From Istanbul

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/16/opini ... edman.html

There is nothing wrong with criticizing Israel’s human rights abuses in the territories. Israel’s failure to apply its creativity to solving the Palestinian problem is another dangerous vacuum. But it is very troubling when Erdogan decries Israelis as killers and, at the same time, warmly receives in Ankara Sudan’s president, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, who has been indicted by the International Criminal Court on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity for his role in the bloodshed in Darfur, and while politely hosting Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose government killed and jailed thousands of Iranians demanding that their votes be counted. Erdogan defended his reception of Bashir by saying: “It’s not possible for a Muslim to commit genocide.”

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Jun 2010 11:27

shyamd wrote:
Sanku wrote:Shyamd, you just dont get it do you. The 2002 peace plan offers conditional acceptance with conditions which are poison pills, We will accept Israel if Israel stops being Israel at all.
It was a comprehensive deal - Nothing conditional about it,

Shaymd, comprehensive deal but not conditional? Sorry your words are the one spinning.

Do Israel have the flexibilty to pick and chose from the comprehensive package?

No right so it is conditional, take it all or take none?

Why should Israel take all of the PISS deal?

I am sorry I am going to keep banging at the basics as much as you try to spin it.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Jun 2010 19:00

The conditions are for establishing full and normalising relations, not acceptance. The Arab League has accepted Israel under 67 borders, but full and normal relations won't be established until Israel does the 3 steps needed, which aren't that hard really (apart from Golan).

Anyway, are those conditions hard?
Pull out of 67 borders of which half is already done. Most of West Bank and Golan left. Golan - is about water.

Negotiate on right of return - which is already happening.

Accept a Palestinian state.

Is that really so difficult? Even accepting a palestinian state would be a positive start.

But to be fair, the arabs admit themselves they didn't really sell it to the Israeli people well enough - and make things more clear on their position. But that will change soon hopefully.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 16 Jun 2010 19:05

Shyamd, I think a palestinian state is on the cards in the WB at some point with the main sticking point being Jerusalem (maybe a west berlin/east berlin type split), and I think it may happen with Gaza too if Hamas accepts Israel which I think is going to have to happen at some point. Are you saying the Arab nations will all accept Israel if this is done?

Btw what is your opinion on what the future of Jersualem should be?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Jun 2010 19:24

Carl_T wrote:Shyamd, I think a palestinian state is on the cards in the WB at some point with the main sticking point being Jerusalem (maybe a west berlin/east berlin type split),

It has to happen, but Israel doesn't agree at all on Jerusalem and still doesn't recgonise a Palestinian state. But I suppose they will climb down if the US forces them.

and I think it may happen with Gaza too if Hamas accepts Israel which I think is going to have to happen at some point. Are you saying the Arab nations will all accept Israel if this is done?

Hamas will climb down, you speak to Hamas guys (not military wing who are controlled by damascus and Tehran) - they are full of tough talk, but they do show that they are ready to climb down for peace.

Arab League's position is this:
Pull out of 67 borders of which half is already done. Most of West Bank and Golan left. Golan - is about water.

Negotiate on right of return - which is already happening.

Accept a Palestinian state.

in return for full diplomatic and normalisation of relations.

Btw what is your opinion on what the future of Jersualem should be?

Well palestinians are uncompromising on East Jerusalem. The demographics is muslim arabs. Israel passed a law saying Jerusalem is theirs, then the UN voted that the Israeli law is null and void. Muslim holy site is there too. So, both sides are uncompromising.

In my opinion, I don't think it would hurt to give back East Jerusalem. As far as international law stands, it is illegally annexed by Israel. East Jerusalem residents were offered Israeli citizenship , most refused.

Jerusalem is the biggest obstacle at the moment.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Jun 2010 23:17

India delaying $100-mn joint investment fund, says Oman

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IOL says Saif Gaddafi (son of Col Gadaffi) was in Paris to speak to Sarkozy's advisors on Rafale. Saif Gaddafi told Sarkozy’s advisors that Libya was only interested in Rafale if the aircraft were fitted with Scalp and Exocet AM39 missiles. While France is ready to sell this kind of weaponry to the UAe, which is also buying Rafale, Libya is another matter.

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To seal its alliance with Bagdad, Tehran is urging the Iraqi authorities to export some of their crude oil via Iran. Iraq only has the capacity to export 1.7 million barrels of oil a day, and thus produces more. At the beginning of May, the commercial attache of the Iranian embassy in Bagdad made a proposal to the Iraqi administration that would involve the installation of a pipeline capable of transporting 350,000 barrels a day from Basra, in the south of Iraq, to the Iranian town of Abedan and from there, on to the international marketplace. The project was initially proposed to the government of Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki in 2005 but the US. opposed it.
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John Kerry, who chairs the U.S. Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, was in Syria May 22 and 23 for the second time in less than two months. During the visit he met President Bachar Al-Assad.
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NATO is having serious budget problems. They are in the red by £430million. Most of the deficit is from security investments (NATO wide C3 and C2 capabilities are over spending massively).
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Dubai Holding has reported massive losses of $6.4 bil.
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After the recent firing between Bahraini fishermen by Qatari navy. Tensions have now cooled thanks to KSA King. Sheikh Hamad (Qatari King) also rang Bahrain’s King Hamad to praise him for accepting the Saudi initiative.
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Al Qaeda (AQAP) calls on its soldiers to kidnap christians and Al Saud's to release AQ guys under arrest currently in the Kingdom.
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Oman strengthening ties with Iran
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Yemen conflict is back on the boil, this time in the South. But it maybe too late to contain this one.
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Banker's 12-month ordeal as 'hostage' of Qatari sheikh

Expatriates in the Gulf are used to horror stories about exit permits refused, passports withheld and people being held indefinitely under house arrest, but most accept it as one of the risks of working in a developing country . David Proctor, a British national working for Doha’s Al-Khaliji Bank who got stuck in Qatar, was finally allowed to leave in late April. His case has been one of the most high-profile to date, and was extensively covered in Euromoney magazine.

This banker complained to the UN rights body, and could set a precedent for the GCC.

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Kerala daily to serve as conduit for UAE police

ABU DHABI: A Kerala-based newspaper has agreed to serve as a media conduit for police in the United Arab Emirates with the Indian community in the country.

A memorandum of understanding to this effect was signed on Sunday by Lt. Col. Khalid Al-Shamsi, deputy director for technical security and media affairs in Abu Dhabi police, and M.K.M. Abbas, editor in chief of Siraj, a Malayalam-language newspaper also published from Dubai. The ceremony was attended by Maj. Gen. Khalil Dawood Badran, director general of finance and services at the Abu Dhabi police and Kanthapuram Abubakr Musliar, chairman of Siraj Publishing Group.

Welcoming the agreement, Maj. Gen. Badran praised the efforts made by the newspaper to educate the 1.5 million-strong Kerala community in the UAE about the country’s laws and regulations.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Jun 2010 07:20

Has the U.S. lost its ability to shield Israel at the U.N.?

http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/post ... _at_the_un

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Jun 2010 08:05

received via email

You be the Judge... read this objectively and wisely, please.

Netanyahu at his best

Even those who aren't particularly sympathetic to Benjamin Netanyahu could get a good measure of satisfaction from this interview with British Television during the retaliation against Hamas' shelling of Israel .

The interviewer asked him: "How come so many more Palestinians have been killed in this conflict than Israelis?" (A nasty question if there ever was one)

Netanyahu: "Are you sure that you want to start asking in that direction?

Interviewer: Why not?

Netanyahu: "Because in World War II more Germans were killed than British and Americans combined, but there is no doubt in anyone's mind that the war was caused by Germany 's aggression. And in response to the German blitz on London , the British wiped out the entire city of Dresden , burning to death more German civilians than the number of people killed in Hiroshima ... Moreover, I could remind you that in 1944, when the R.A.F. tried to bomb the Gestapo Headquarters in Copenhagen , some of the bombs missed their target and fell on a Danish children's hospital, killing 83 little children. Perhaps you have another question?"

Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave another interview and was asked about Israel 's occupation of Arab lands. His response was, "It's our land". The reporter (CNN or the like) was stunned - read below "It's our land..." It's important information since we don't get fair and accurate reporting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.

"Crash Course on the Arab-Israeli Conflict."

Here are overlooked facts in the current & past Middle East situation. These were compiled by a Christian university professor:
BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY...

It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem : Israel became a nation in 1312 BC, two thousand (2000) years before the rise of Islam.... Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel ..
Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BC, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand (1000) years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem , they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders
did not come to visit.

6) Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned even once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem . Mohammed never came to Jerusalem .

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem . Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem .

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews . Sixty-eight percent left (many in fear of retaliation by their own brethren, the Arabs), without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The ones who stayed were afforded the same peace, civility, and citizenship rights as everyone else.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel , a country no larger than the state of New Jersey ...

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel . Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel .

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel .

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives .

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

These are incredible times. We have to ask what our role should be. What will we tell our grandchildren about what we did when there was a turning point in Jewish destiny, an opportunity to make a difference?

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem .

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Jun 2010 17:46

^^ Above has many errors.

Sarkozy opens French military base in Abu Dhabi
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Prince Khaled bin Sultan has begun gathering support for his drive to take over the Saudi Ministry of Defence and Aviation.
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Oman has received offers for Gripen too. So its out of EF & Gripen. UK confirmed that EF was selected but, Oman hasn't confirmed looks like.
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Kuwaiti Parliament is vetoing decision on Rafale in favour of the the F-18 Super Hornet.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 17 Jun 2010 18:48

shyamd wrote:^^ Above has many errors.

As history is written by the winners there will always be bias.

And Islamists have the 'decent' behaviour of erasing anything and everything which is non-islamic and so every history related to Islamists carries errors.

The status of Jerusalem is akin to Babri-Masjid case. That is, you occupy someoneelse's holy site. Build a monument over it and ascribe religious overtones to it and then claim the holy site as yours. How many temples and holy places in India suffered such fate! And even the Christians followed the same route. Many Sun temples in Europe were turned to Churches after subduing the residents.

If we say it is legal to bring back artifacts of Indians that was taken by the British then by the same token it is natural for the original owner to claim their holy site which was wrenched from them by force. This holds in any law.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Jun 2010 23:44

shyamd wrote
^^ Above has many errors.

Do you care to explicitly point those errors out?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 18 Jun 2010 03:08

brihaspati wrote:
shyamd wrote
^^ Above has many errors.
Do you care to explicitly point those errors out?

Don't have time to go through all the errors. But just for an example. There is the saying:
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem . Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

If they are south east of jerusalem, they would be praying with their backs toward jerusalem. If they were North west of jerusalem or in Haifa they would technically be praying towards Jerusalem and Mecca. You get my point right?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jun 2010 03:24

^^^Agreed. But those living in the South-east will indeed be facing away and showing their backs. What he probably is trying to show is that the Muslims within Israel have their existential/cultural/faith centre outside of Israel. So both you and he have valid points. In fact it is claimed that for some time in early Islam, muslims apparently did pray facing towards Jerusalem. (Under Muhammad in the early days, and then post-Muhammad when one mulim commnder attacked and "burnt" Meacc/Kaaba).

points 5,7,8 all subject to opinionated dispute. But what about the other points?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 18 Jun 2010 03:55

Sure. Point 12 is another example.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel , a country no larger than the state of New Jersey ...

They weren't intentionally absorbed because they would lose the right of return argument with Israel. But in practice, most have been absorbed. Only in Lebanon are they in the worst condition but even there a lot got citizenship. GCC countries do have a lot of Palestinians as nationals.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jun 2010 05:32

Looking at Jordan first as the "largest' absorber of Palestinian "refugees".

The only "Arab League" member not to support the initial Arab League proposal for a Palestinian state - because Abdullah had his own designs on the "west Bank".

According to the Jordanian Citizenship Law, Palestinians were granted Jordanian Citizenship. Article 3 of the 1954 law states that a Jordanian national is: ‘Any person with previous Palestinian nationality except the Jews before the date of May 15, 1948 residing in the Kingdom during the period from December 20, 1949 and February 16, 1954.’ Thus Palestinians in the East Bank and the West Bank of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan were granted Jordanian nationality but not Gazans. So Jordanian citizenship is also based on religion/ethnicity and does not recognize the right of Jews of Palestine to reside on the West Bank.

But then after the tiff with PLO, which PLO virtually ran to a stalemate with Arab and "other"help, King Hussein severed ties formally in 1988 announcing the administrative severance between Jordan and the West Bank. This made one and a half million Palestinians with Jordanian passports (citizens of Jordan) Palestinian "nationals". The royal speech, delivered by King Hussein on the evening of 31 July 1988, declared: ‘Today, we respond to the wish of the PLO, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and to the Arab orientation [seeking] to affirm the Palestinian identity in all its aspects ... It has to be understood in all clarity, and without any ambiguity or equivocation, that our measures regarding the West Bank concern only the occupied Palestinian land and its people. They naturally do not relate in any way to the Jordanian citizens of Palestinian origins in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. They all have the full rights of citizenship and all its obligations, the same as any other citizen irrespective of his origin' (Kassim, Anis, ‘The Palestinian: From Hyphenated to Integrated Citizens’, in the Palestine Year Book of International Law, Vol. IV, p. 297, 1987). Thus, all those living in the West Bank became categorized as ‘Palestinians’. In this case ‘Palestinians’ signified people residing in the Occupied Territories and had no legal status.

In general, Palestinians have encountered discrimination. By focusing its strategies of recruitment and rewards on the ‘asha’ir’ (large Transjordanian clans), the regime has reinforced the salience of tribal affiliation to East Banker identity – though not all tribes enjoy the same support (Brand, L., Palestinian and Jordanians: A Crisis of Identity’. Journal of Palestine Studies 34 (4), Summer 1995.). On the other hand, ‘Palestinians want to return eventually, because they are exploited by the Jordanian establishment. Their career options are limited to the private sector, they run the economy, but have no access to the decision making circles and state institutions’ (interview with UNRWA employee, ‘Palestinians Displaced’. Article 74, 13, Badil, 1994.).

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 18 Jun 2010 06:10

Well, yeah... even later on GCC nations revoked nationality to palestinians who supported Saddam during Gulf war I. But that reflects inter arab politics/ethnicity anyway. But in general, most have been absorbed.

Syria has allowed them full rights as Syrian citizens.
Saddam took awesome care of them, they were in govt/non govt areas - were higher up than the their Shia population.
Palestinians who lived in the Gaza Strip when Israel came into being were issued with Egyptian travel documents which allowed them to move outside of the Gaza Strip, and Egypt. Those who kept Palestinian passports later required visas.

Jordan doesnt want to control the West Bank, hence said as of 1988, West Bank citizens are palestinian.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jun 2010 06:35

The Right to be Legally Recognized

Residency Permits

There are three types of residency permits in Egypt. Palestinians satisfying conditions for special residence are granted a ten-year permit, ordinary residence a five-year permit, and temporary residence a one- to three-year permit. Other foreign nationals, including Palestinian refugees, who do not satisfy conditions for special and ordinary permits, acquire a temporary permit. According to Badil, (2007) the majority of Palestinians in Egypt fall within the third category; those few Palestinians recognized as refugees by UNHCR are granted six month-renewable residence permits.

Lebanon viewed Palestinians as no different from other foreign nationals residing in Lebanon. A foreign national refers to any natural or juridical person who is not a Lebanese subject, a concept which relies mainly on nationality (Al-Natour 1997). Following the adoption of Order No. 319 of 2/8/1962,65 Palestinians became one of the five categories of foreigners. The same Order made it mandatory for this category of foreign nationals to come to the General Directorate of the General Security before the end of September 1962, so as to rectify their status and receive temporary or permanent residency cards. In compliance with this Decision, Palestinians residing in Lebanon went to the General Directorate of the Department of Refugee Affairs to rectify their status and obtain the designated cards. This subsequently became standard practice (Al-Natour 1997).

Lebanon seems to be adopting UNRWA’s procedural definition. In other words, registration with UNRWA and receipt of UNRWA rations is a prerequisite for the issuance of refugee documents and for permission to stay in the country (Shiblak 1996). Accordingly, Palestinian refugees legally residing in Lebanon are those who, during and in the aftermath of the 1948 war, took direct refuge in Lebanon and who registered with UNRWA in Lebanon. According to Suleiman (2006), Palestinian refugees registered both with UNRWA and DAPR or, at least, with DAPR are granted a permanent residency card. Takkenberg (1998) distinguishes, rather, between those registered with UNRWA, and those who are not, but registered in 1948 with the League of Red Cross Societies (hereafter LRCS).

Others who came later from other countries, who are not in the UNRWA register or who subsequently lost the right to receive UNRWA rations or be granted an ID from the Lebanese authorities, are deemed to be either illegally residing in Lebanon, or to be non-ID Palestinians. These suffer restrictions on any movements within the country. They cannot register their children, thus these children cannot attend public schools. And they cannot even register their marriages being under constant threat of deportation (Shiblak 1996; Takkenberg 1998; Elsayed-Ali 2006).

Residency permits for Palestinian refugees in Syria are issued in accordance with the Casablanca Protocol (Badil 2007). Palestinian refugee residency cards are granted to those who entered Syria in 1948 and who were registered at the register of Immigration and Passports, and at the registers of the Public Agency for Palestinian refugees, and for their children from 10 till 18 years old, with their legal representative or with those whom the Ministry of the Interior accepts in this stead. It should be noted that the entry, residence and departure of foreign nationals in Syria is currently regulated by legislative decree No.29/1970, which authorizes the Minister of the Interior to issue decisions regulating the entry, residence and departure of Palestinian refugees in Syria. In 1980, Ministerial Decision No.1531 was adopted by which procedures for issuing residence permits for Palestinians refugees in Syria were set.

In Jordan, most Palestinians became Jordanian citizens. No residency permit is needed for them. The only exception are for Palestinians from the GS who, following the 1967 war or later on, took refuge in Jordan. These were not naturalized Jordanians and needed a permit to stay in Jordan. They are granted a two-year passport with many restrictions with regards to rights and freedoms. If they leave Jordan, there is no guarantee that those holding such temporary Jordanian passports will be allowed to return. Palestinians residing on the WB, holding Jordanian temporary passports (for two years, and since 1995 for five years), are not Jordanian citizens. Their entry into Jordan is limited to the time permitted by the Jordanian authorities. In case of transgression, they are to pay a fine and they may be expelled.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jun 2010 06:42

The Right not to be expelled (non-refoulement)

In Egypt, Palestinians who are not holding a refugee document issued by the Egyptian authorities risk expulsion; those holding a refugee document issued by the Egyptian authorities are granted a renewable three-year permit if they have resided in Egypt for the past ten years, and provided that they have a source of income in the country. In fact, according to law 89/1960 which regulates the entry and stay of foreign nationals and their exit from Egypt, being granted residency is conditional on providing a reason for remaining in Egypt. Each applicant must provide either evidence of enrollment in a school or university, legal employment (a work contract), a business partnership with an Egyptian, or marriage with an Egyptian woman, among other possible conditions. If none of these are applicable, then a Palestinian male must deposit an amount of money in a bank and show a statement of proof: women, it should be noted, cannot avail themselves of this condition. As a result, there are many Palestinians living illegally without residency in Egypt who are at risk of being jailed or deported (Shafie, 2008). [According to Shiblak, this policy became the rule in the late 70s when a number of ‘privileges’ were revoked: ‘visas are no longer renewed free of charge, and the RD holder, like other foreigners, must show proof of having changed money and spent a minimum of $180 in hard currency per family per month. Those who fail to comply risk deportation’. (SHIBLAK 1996).

According to a 1962 law and the Lebanese penal code, non-ID Palestinians risk expulsion from Lebanon. According to the local researcher, registered Palestinians are impossible to expel. However, the acquisition of a second passport by Palestinian refugees was used by the Department of General Security as a pretext to remove some Palestinians from the list of those with residence rights in Lebanon (Sayigh 1995). Besides, the 1995 ruling imposing a re-entry visa on Palestinian refugees holding Lebanese TDs ‘meant the indirect but forcible eviction of approximately 100.000 Palestinians currently outside Lebanon but registered as living there, who are now not only stateless but also homeless’ (Al-Natour 1997).

Law no. 260/956 prohibits the expulsion of resident Palestinians from Syria. In case of the illegal presence of Palestinians, who are recognised as refugees by other host states, these are treated as foreign nationals by Syrian law.

In Tunisia, law no. 75-40/1975 relating to passports and TDs regulates the entry and exit of foreign nationals from the country. Foreign nationals must be in possession of a valid passport and a visa when required. A new law was adopted in 2004; and in article 34 which is carried over from the 1975 law, it is stated that the refoulment of refugees is forbidden, as in international conventions.

In the Arab countries expulsions are determined by instantaneous relationship with the dominant Palestinian military-political organization - as in the Quwaiti expulsion of Palestinians in the first Gulf War.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jun 2010 07:39

Israel versus the U.N. press corps

http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/post ... ress_corps

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jun 2010 07:45

The hollow Arab core

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... _arab_core

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jun 2010 08:01

Saudi King coming to Washington

http://www.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... ngton.html

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 18 Jun 2010 19:15

M&M enters UAE Defence vehicles through a three way partnership

Accroding to M&M, India's largest SUV maker, the company will introduce a line up of vehicles like the Marksman, up-armoured Scorpio and cash-in-transit van.

Iraq wants direct flights to India

Crude storage facility for Kuwait on agenda

India is likely to offer to Kuwait a storage facility for its crude oil in return for assured supplies in the long term from the Gulf nation. The proposal may be put before Kuwait’s oil minister Sheikh Ahmad Abdullah al Sabah when he visits New Delhi later this month.

“We expect to hear some positive response during the visit. It is a win-win offer for both nations,” a senior oil ministry official said.

The proposal, if accepted by Kuwait, would help India to strengthen its emergency oil reserves and reduce its vulnerability to supply disruptions. For Kuwait, it ensures an assured market and a new hub for venturing into other east Asian countries.

Officials said India had made similar offers to other Gulf nations such as Oman, Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia. India depends on imports to meet its oil needs, and West Asia holds the key to its energy security.

According to provisional data of the petroleum ministry, cumulative crude oil imports for 2009-10 are up 19.6 per cent year-on-year at 153.2 million tonnes.

The crude storage facilities will be developed as joint ventures with the national oil companies of Gulf countries, which are traditional suppliers of crude, officials said.

The Gulf-based crude oil suppliers to India include Saudi Aramco, Kuwait Petroleum Corporation, Abu Dhabi National Oil Co and National Iranian Oil Company.

If the Gulf countries accept the offer, India can emerge as a regional hub in crude oil trade. The country is already a major exporter of refined petroleum products.

India imports over 80 per cent of its crude oil. Its oil storage infrastructure can meet the requirement for less than 30 days, while developed countries maintain reserves for 90 days.

“Given the volatility in crude prices, the storage terminals are intended as a buffer for the economy. This should ideally be done when oil prices were at their lows,” D. K. Joshi, principal economist with rating agency Crisil, said.

State-owned Indian Strategic Petroleum Reserves Limited (ISPRL) is building three storage facilities in Mangalore, Visakhapatnam and Padur in Kerala.

The first terminal being built at Visakhapatnam with a capacity of 1.33 million tonnes will be ready by the middle of next year. The other two terminals will take the total storage capacity close to 5 million tonnes.

India plans to increase its strategic petroleum reserves to 8.5 million tonnes by 2012. The country has an existing reserve of 3-3.5 million tonnes, held by BPCL, HPCL and IOC.

The three facilities are being built at a cost of about Rs 2,400 crore (at September 2005 prices), according to ISPRL.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Jun 2010 21:14

^ Longtime ago a gentleman came up with such a proposal and posted it on BRF. His vision included storing of about ~$50-$100B worth of crude in western ghats...

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 18 Jun 2010 22:06

Sanku wrote:Sir, by that standard, the Pali's have 22 countries including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia behind them and arrayed against Israel.

Sankuji, I am amused by your logic and extent to which you want to stretch even at the cost of getting India into this mess.

22 member arab solidarity with Palis should be compared with the solidarity( and much more - complete military/diplo/economic ) of all western block's support. I don't know what are you talking about.

Once again, Pakistan is not a weeker nation than India in the context of Israel-Palistine dynamic. PERIOD.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 19 Jun 2010 00:14

Satya_anveshi wrote:
Sanku wrote:Sir, by that standard, the Pali's have 22 countries including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia behind them and arrayed against Israel.
Sankuji, I am amused by your logic and extent to which you want to stretch even at the cost of getting India into this mess.

I do not see how I am getting India into a mess?

22 member arab solidarity with Palis should be compared with the solidarity( and much more - complete military/diplo/economic ) of all western block's support. I don't know what are you talking about.

Oh some of the 22 Arab countries are backed by the same western powers. Of the 3 1/2 friends of Pakistan, one of them is the same Arab country.

Once again, Pakistan is not a weeker nation than India in the context of Israel-Palistine dynamic. PERIOD.

Weeker? Weaker you mean, right? Anyway whether you think of Pakistan as stronger or weaker is not particularly important to the point that I wish to make.

A weaker party does not necessarily become a loveable underdog to be supported. Whether Palistianians are weaker or not is really not germane to the morality of the discussion.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 19 Jun 2010 05:06

Posted 29th May on Iran thread.

shyamd wrote:IOL:

Iran still maintaining friendship with the Sunni terrorists especially the guys who were holed up in Iran. Iran is happy to infiltrate the southern saudi border and stir up trouble there - keeping the pressure on. Bin laden's 5 sons lived in Iran from 97, and were briefly under house arrest near the Iran TSP border. The six close relatives of Bin Laden are now one by one leaving Iran.

Osama lived in Iran during 2003 in the Southern Province of Khorasan under protection of the IRGC before returning in 2006 to Waziristan for a short period.

IRGC is still continuing to protect sunni terrorists. One of the major initiators of this alliance is the current iranian defence minister.

Debka article about the same released last week.

Osama bin Laden and top aides are hiding in Sabzevar, Iran

DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis June 8, 2010, 12:16 AM (GMT+02:00)
Osama bin Laden stayed out of sight for years
Osama bin Laden's hiding place was pinned down for the first time Monday, June 7, by the Kuwaiti Al-Siyassa Monday, June 7, as the mountainous town of Savzevar in the northeastern Iranian province of Khorasan, 220 km west of Mashhad. He is said to have lived there under Tehran's protection for the last five years, along with Ayman Al-Zawahiri and five other high-ranking al Qaeda leaders.
DEBKAfile's intelligence sources disclosed Monday night that Turkish prime minister Recep Erdogan and his intelligence chiefs are well aware that Bin Laden and Zawahiri are hiding in Iran. The leak to the Kuwait paper was intended to show the Obama administration that the Turkish leader's ties with Iran had grown intense enough for him to be fully in the picture of Iran's secret sanctuary for the authors of the 9/11 attacks on the United States.
Savzevar, a small town of about a quarter of a million inhabitants, is connected by road to Tehran and Mashhad and has a small airport. A center for producing grapes and raisins, its location is remote and difficult to access because it is enclosed by lofty mountains and a salt desert 50,000 square kilometers in area.
On May 13, American intelligence sources reported in detail that senior al Qaeda operatives living in Iran had been allowed to leave the country through Syria to orchestrate terrorist attacks on American targets. Among them was Saif al-Adel, who is believed to have been assigned with planning an attack on the world soccer games opening in South Africa on June 12.
Those sources noted that Saif al-Adel had received his instructions directly from Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri but did not reveal knowledge of their presence in Iran.
DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources disclose that the purpose of airing their precise whereabouts at this time, aside from implicating the Turkish leader, was first, to warn al Qaeda's leaders that their hideout was blown and they had better move on - which would make them easier to catch; and, second, to nudge US president Barak Obama into a decision to go after them.
A rare opportunity may now be building up to capture the world's most wanted terrorist, DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources report. Last December, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates acknowledged the United States has not had any good intelligence on bin Laden's whereabouts in years. Until recently, the elusive master-terrorist was generally thought to have gone to ground in the wilder parts of Pakistan-Afghanistan border region.

Very similar to the IOL article. Saif Al Adel is the former Egyptian special forces officer Mohamed Mekkawi, better known under his nom de guerre, Saif Al Adel. He was the lead trouble maker in Iraq. Re-locating to Iran in the early 2000s, he recently worked out of that country to facilitate the transfer of fighters from the Afghan-Pakistani tribal zones to Yemen.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 19 Jun 2010 05:45

DNW: NATO boys are worried that Ankara will leak out NATO secrets. NATO partners get access to a lot of intelligence and I am sure they will be aware of French Israel plans on striking Iran.

Israel's senior military and intelligence planners arrived in Washington this week. They are urgently discussing with their American opposite numbers ways to stop NATO's intelligence secrets reaching Ankara, especially confidential data relating to terrorism, Iran, Syria, Hizballah, and security updates on the countries in the Mediterranean basin, including southern Europe and North Africa.
The Israelis warned US officials that their military and intelligence exchanges with Turkey, reduced now to low level, will soon be cut off altogether and they have begun gearing up to reclassify Turkey from Israel's sole Middle East ally to an intelligence target.
Knowing exactly where he stands in this respect, Hizballah's Hassan Nasrallah has armored himself with a unique three-tiered protective system which is manned by hand-picked guards and Iranian agents deployed in Beirut for that purpose.

Hassan Nasrallah has been invited to Ankara - this is also another nail in the coffin of Israeli Turk relations. Now the MIT chief is placed incharge of bringing Nasrallah from his secret location in Beirut to Ankara and back safely.

MIT's chief arrived in Beirut earlier this week with personal guarantees for Nasrallah's safety from the Turkish prime minister.

In Beirut, he turned over various means of travel to Ankara with the Hizballah leader. One suggestion was for Nasrallah to be travel in one of three Turkish military jets flying to Beirut to pick him up - too many for the Israeli Air Force to risk challenging without provoking a full-blown war.
Another proposal was for him to drive overland from Lebanon to Syria and on to Turkey, with Prime Minister Erdogan greeting him at the Turkish-Syrian border.
According to some intelligence sources in Beirut and Damascus, the Hizballah chief secretly left Beirut some days ago and could turn up in Ankara at any moment.

(My comment: Do note that DNW is over blowing the risk to Nasrallah, if Israel wanted to bump him off they wouldn't use this event. There was a previous incident when KSA received info that Prince Muqrin (KSA GID Chief's) Falcon private jet was going to get intercepted on its way from Jeddah to Beirut by Israeli F 16's. The plane took off with top aides of hezbollah who just met King Abdulla. KSA rang up Washington and Amman and even made direct contact with Israel, which agreed to stand down after tough talk from Washington.. Nasrallah was meant to meet KSA King secretly with all the senior princes, but this was cancelled for security reasons in the last minute but the 2 aides met King Abdullah secretly along with senior princes)

-----------)
From 6th to 10th June. Both Washington and Jerusalem withheld public exposure of this US-Israeli aerial exercise, which was dubbed Juniper Stallion 2010, because it was a lot closer to the real thing than previous joint war games in the Juniper series. In fact, on instructions from President Barack Obama, all US missile interceptors in the Middle East were on full war alert, including the batteries on US Sixth Fleet vessels on the Mediterranean and the US Fifth Fleet in the Persian Gulf.
-------------------------
On Wednesday, June 16, USS Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group, which was supposed to depart the Mediterranean after the exercise and head out to the Persian Gulf, was ordered to remain in the Mediterranean for now. Intelligence had reached Washington of an expected high curve in naval and military tensions involving Turkey, Iran and possibly Hizballah, against Israel over the Gaza blockade. Ankara is suspending bilateral cooperation with Israel in all fields.

A few hours after Lieberman's comment which said it will not treat any flotilla's as humanitarian, Tehran issued a blanket threat against Israel - and implicitly the United States: Iranian Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani said that if Israel or any other party interfered with the Iranian ships destined for Gaza, Tehran would retaliate militarily against unspecified shipping in the Mediterranean and in the Persian Gulf.
-------------------------------

America's waning military fortunes in Afghanistan and powerlessness to halt Iran's nuclear program are taking a heavy toll on its influence in the Middle East and Persian Gulf.
This was evident from a new working paper presented to five oil emirates (excepting only Oman) by former Kuwaiti National Security Adviser and ex-lawmaker Abdullah Ali Nafisi.
The Persian Gulf states will not be able to withstand the Iranian nuclear threat and Iranian political pressure, he writes, if they continue to operate as six separate states, each with its own small army.

The Gulf States would have to merge their armies, says the Kuwait strategist. Only a single large army that controls everything that goes on in the Arabian Peninsula and the Persian Gulf would be able to deter Iran.
The most prominent feature of this working paper is its omission of the United States, as though its traditional role of protector of the emirates in times of danger is forgotten..

DNW's sources in the Persian Gulf stress the Kuwaiti writer would not have released his paper without the nod of royal circles close to King Abdullah.
It was therefore not surprising to hear approving echoes in Riyadh this week, a cautious yet clear Saudi response to the latest Turkish and Iranian Middle East initiatives. As we went to press, our sources report that President Obama has urgently invited the Saudi king for talks. His visit to Washington has been scheduled for June 28.
------------------------------------
UAE and Russia have agreed to expand defence relations over the next 2 years. Russians are expecting orders for arms.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 19 Jun 2010 15:12

Accepting Israel's existence is not an issue - Israel exists. Just as Taiwan exists, no on denies that...Recognition (as a state) is the issue and diplomatic relationship, however cold is the way of showing that recognition and bring closure. Else the proper interpretation of what the Arabs are saying is 'this is the best we can get right now, let us take it and wait for better days'....something that doesn't work for Israel as it is no better than status quo.

The issue of internal democracy, human rights and basic human behaviour in Arab states towards their own women, religious minorities, free thinkers/non-believers and religious/political dissent, and civilised behaviour towards the world in general are important issues in this context because until and unless that happens, any agreement with these states are not worth the paper they are written on..Israel probably knows that...

FWIW, if as per the going story, Arabs do recognise Israel then why are there restriction on even foreigners not allowed to enter their nations with Israeli stamp on their passport? Perhaps they can show their goodwill by recognising Israel but refusing to recognise current borders, or posting ambassadors until settlement, that way Israel feels more secure and has less reasons to lash out unreasonably against small provocations like a cornered cat..(such as the IHH boat affair which has been correctly analysed by reasonable Turkish commentators as having genesis in Israeli insecurity).

As to inferior-superior complexes amongst Arabs, they do exist, just as they do amongst Indians among other races/nationalities. Palestinians are considered inferior by many Saudis, Gulf states etc. There are numerous anecdotal evidences, jokes that show it....Arab is more of a linguistic than a racial identity as there are considerable differences amongst Arabs. And now it is a religious identity as well, which is kind of strange because many Jews and Christians are as much Arab as anyone else..

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 19 Jun 2010 16:36

^^ Simple. Existence of Israel was refused before. It was accepted in 2002. Israel is totally recognised under 67 borders however, Israel continues to occupy land (post 67 borders) hence why there is no diplomatic relations in the arab view.

About arab states not accepting Israeli stamps - Lol. In practice they allow it completely. Saudi guys are even known to stamp their visa's next to Israeli entry stamps. Just google it. Its just symbolic because Israel does not recognise the rights of the Palestinians and the right of Palestinian state to exist. So Arabs are reciprocating.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 19 Jun 2010 18:18

In the light of global terror originating from Israel's Arab/ME enemies (Iran, KSA, Yemen, Syria, TSP, Sudan) that is targeting not just Israel, but humanity at large, it becomes all the more important for Arab and other Muslim ME states to take away these silly policies. If they are observed merely in breach, it is all the more reason to take them away because it allows them to claim with even more conviction that they are being reasonable and it is Israel that is playing truant.

Right now if that claim is made it will not be taken seriously where it matters - amongst the Jews, and neutral folks like us. And Unkil for one..whether or not he is biased...it certainly wont be taken seriously here @ BRF.

except perhaps by a lone crusader (or jihadi to make it more grammatically perfect).

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 19 Jun 2010 19:06

shyamd wrote:^^ Simple. Existence of Israel was refused before. It was accepted in 2002. Israel is totally recognised under 67 borders however, Israel continues to occupy land (post 67 borders) hence why there is no diplomatic relations in the arab view.

About arab states not accepting Israeli stamps - Lol. In practice they allow it completely. Saudi guys are even known to stamp their visa's next to Israeli entry stamps. Just google it. Its just symbolic because Israel does not recognise the rights of the Palestinians and the right of Palestinian state to exist. So Arabs are reciprocating.

Israel won the post 1967 territory in the 6-day war.Why should they return it?You are saying that they should make the same mistake as India which relinquished haji pir and other territories won in different wars with pakistan in return for nothing.Nobody asked arabs to finger Israel because of which Israel had to initiate the six day war.The reason is the so called superiority complex of muslims in general and arabs in particular.Secondly post 1967 territories also include jerusalem which is the historical homeland for jews.How can they return it?Infact why should they return it?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 19 Jun 2010 19:25

Just a comparison, how many indians are willing to accept the Pakistan word that they will not occupy Siachen heights if Indian Army withdraw as part of peace proposal. Is there anyone here ?

Another comparison, if your neighbour is hell bent on beating you several times and beaten several times in the past with the record of continous history, how you take his sudden peace proposal if he says he is willing to consider a lasting peace if you are willing to give a portion of your lawn for his use and acommodate rest of some of his household in your house. [ I bet a peacenik like Kushwat Singh may not accept this proposal. Even Gandhi became wiser at the end.]

One more comparison, lets replace Turkey for Israel, If situtation is reversed, what will be the prospectus of Turkey giving the Kudrish land to Kurds on just a promise that they maybe...maybe considered for the EU.

As Arabs are not speaking in one voice, as there are internal difference, what if one day after Israel obligating all its side of the promises, one of the Arab states wage a war against Israel. If Saudi accepts Israel what if Iran doesnt accept Israel on the prescribed terms set the Saudi ? Is it not Turkey to whom Israel shared military secrets suddenly reversed its stand ? With the kind of history why would Israel want to believe any Arabs ? Or, the right question is what Arabs have done to Israel to earn their trust to accept any peace proposal from them ?

Lets leave Saudis and Syrians, even palestinians never accepted a peaceful co-existance with jews. And there is always a precedent, the way the Prophet showed them how to occupy other's land. One way or other, when time changes, just like Turkey started behaving with Israel, what stops someone to follow the path of their Prophet.

Can arabs give guarantee against all these ? Otherwise, this talk of peace for the land maynot last long.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 19 Jun 2010 19:54

Kanson sir.I completely agree with all the points you have made.If any lands need liberation it is those lands occupied by arabs and turks.Turkey should give kurdish lands as Kurds have genuine demands.There are more than 30 million kurds, most of them in turkey and Turkish record on human rights has not been exemplary.Even Istanbul is occupied territory.It was the capital of Byzantine empire until turks captured it.Similarly look at the darfur case in Sudan.Here the arabic speaking sudanese have committed a genocide against black africans and occupied their lands.It is these lands that have to be liberated.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 19 Jun 2010 20:04

Look at the thousands of dead Uzbeks from Kyrgyz mobs - lots of dead Muslims. Where are the expressions of outrage from Erdogan and shyamd? I hear only the crickets chirping.

Even dutch cartoonists seem to attract more emotion than this, which speaks to the (non-existent) credibility of the ummah.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 19 Jun 2010 20:09

What's mine is mine. What's yours is not yours and need to be negotiated so you can have peace.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 19 Jun 2010 20:20

Oh, actually, in that vein Turkey has many geese to cook! What about vacating occupied portion of Cyprus! Giving back Kurds their their territory?

Those in Palestine, who refer to themselves as Arab - should legitimately find homeland in Saudi Arabia. What about an alternative proposal for "permanent solution" : Let an "Arabic Republic of Philistina" be carved out of Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Palestinians are already the signficant proportion of Jordan, and there should not be much trouble in giving territory to "Arabs" from Palestine in the northern emptiness of KSA!

Yes that republic will constantly wage warfare against the Jews, supplied by the remaining Arabs. But at least Israel will be able to deal with it formally, within normal parameters of international warfare.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 19 Jun 2010 20:37

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Jun 2010 20:39

bin laden group enters hyderabad. Great.

Kangress promoting foreign investment!!

First they let go anderson and now osama is here.

http://www.zeenews.com/news635202.html

'Bin Laden grp buys 20% stake in Maytas Infra'
Updated on Saturday, June 19, 2010, 20:52 IST

New Delhi: Beleaguered Maytas Infra, which was in trouble after the Satyam scam surfaced, has roped in Saudi Bin Ladin group as co-promoter, media reports said on Saturday.

SBG Projects Investments Ltd, promoted by the family6 of the world’s most wanted terrorist, will now pick up the stake through a preferential allotment, reports added