J & K news and discussion

wig · Post by **wig** » 27 Jun 2010 11:26

darshan ji,
with respect; IMVHO while the kangress gubermand might be accused this time. the beejaypee is equally worse. please be under no delusion on their committment to false seklooraism issues.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 28 Jun 2010 12:20

wig wrote:darshan ji,
with respect; IMVHO while the kangress gubermand might be accused this time. the beejaypee is equally worse. please be under no delusion on their committment to false seklooraism issues.

Please substantiate..

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 28 Jun 2010 23:02

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article490512.ece
Spiraling violence in Sopore. Check the photos.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jun 2010 04:51

^^GOI needs to open up Kashmir to investment from the rest of India. These people have way too much time on their hands because of heavy subsidies and lack of competition. Wrecking infrastructure, beating up officers, lighting sh*t on fire, etc... and they'll still get a check in the mail

.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Jun 2010 07:09

RoyG wrote:^^GOI needs to open up Kashmir to investment from the rest of India. These people have way too much time on their hands because of heavy subsidies and lack of competition. Wrecking infrastructure, beating up officers, lighting sh*t on fire, etc... and they'll still get a check in the mail .

Look at the houses under construction in the pics... Something is seriously wrong with the situation in JK.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Jun 2010 07:43

I agree, start cutting all the welfare payment and subsidies.

Once work becomes a way of life, all this sh&t will stop.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jun 2010 08:59

Abhi_G wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article490512.ece
Spiraling violence in Sopore. Check the photos.

The picture is "innocent 17 year olds innocently going to school" being tricked by evil kaffir "10000 Kashmiri women rapist" Indain policewallah to show the pious in bad light..

Thoo on all these "innocent 17 year old" scumbags and the DDM which is taking up their cause.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 Jun 2010 09:14

sum wrote:The picture is "innocent 17 year olds innocently going to school" being tricked by evil kaffir "10000 Kashmiri women rapist" Indain policewallah to show the pious in bad light..

I am waiting for the "Letters to the Editor" in The Hindu tomorrow

. Let us see how many letters of condemnation will come up atleast once supporting an injured police officer. I need to rant here, the most thankless lot in this world seems to be these Kashmiris. Survive on dole offered by a gut-less Indian Govt., yet bite the same hand that feeds them.

+1 to all people who said that all extra privileges given to these thankless cretins need to be taken back. Unless the average Kashmiri really understands that he is just another citizen like a Tamilian, Maharashtrian or a Bengali, this free-loading attitude will not change.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 29 Jun 2010 09:51

The Home Secretary defended the CRPF forcefully. Good job.

On the other job, the NDTV reporter from Srinagar blamed the police.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Jun 2010 10:03

These Sunni terrorists must be punished as per Islam , the very same punishment given to Jews of Medina when they endangered the national security of new founded State .

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Jun 2010 12:02

On Times Now -- Arnab called a spade a spade and had Manish Tiwari for breakfast lunch and dinner for not backing CRPF fully...

http://www.timesnow.tv/Debate-Whos-lett ... 348448.cms

Good job Arnab.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jun 2010 12:08

Seems like our intel network has completely failed in Sopore or the Paki network has overpowered whatever Indian agencies could achieve there...

Sopore seems to be going back to the 90s era of being a "liberated zone" and requiring full strength columns just to "retake" the town and hold a flag march.. Cant imagine any where else in india where such non-sense would be tolerated for 2-3 weeks straight!!!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 Jun 2010 15:26

abhishek_sharma wrote:The Home Secretary defended the CRPF forcefully. Good job.

Read his statement in the The Hindu. Have put it quite vehamently. Have categorically said that local police should have interfered first and CRPF should have been a backup. And that the dead chap was 17-19 years old. Also the simple truth armed mob moving about during a curfew cannot be called "innocent crowd" in any sense.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Jun 2010 16:41

Nothing can be done in separating out because of the Constitutional guarantee. Back to square one. History is a bad thing some people say. Those who look to and filch up history are "residents of the past" and are an obstacle to "progress". But the fact is that at least in India, and especially in J&K history overshadows the present and the future. The special status and pampering was accepted by JLN and because his dynasty has dominated India as a nation - nothing was changed in that special status.

Now even a Constitutional change is going to trigger more violence which will be used to justify not making the Constitutional move. But violence is going to continue anyway, until the whole region is claimed in the name of an Islamic state. Either way a military solution will be inevitable, for the sources of separatist movement cannot be tackled unless they are completely crushed, in so effective a manner that the concerned society has no effective violent retaliation capability left. This is how Islamists spread themselves and we see how effective their methods were.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Jun 2010 17:17

Ajatshatru ji,
the Constitutional provisions bind the gov hand, foot and mouth. Either way, separating and splitting state, will come up against the same Constitutional block. So overcoming that by the Parliamentary prerogative will imply fresh fuel to the fire that will need total military operation. If the GOI/cong sit back and wait and pay more jazyia to the Valley, the Valley will simply use that to resource their fire too. that in turn will ultimately need total military operation.

But the catch is that unless that military op is on the line s of what the Islamists themselves used to spread in Kashmir area in the first place, the Valley will retain the capacity to retaliate.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Jun 2010 17:36

Infinite and everlasting pain from that "recorded" agreement to have UN supervised "referendum" and the Constitutional guarantees - all ultimately traceable to JLN's "weaknesses" and Sardars inability to intervene effectively. De facto occupation is one way of recovery. The other is the dissolution of Pak - and India occupying the erstwhile Paki occupied territories as a "successor" state, which will then preclude all the "legal" hassles.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Jun 2010 17:55

But what you are asking for is a fundamental change of mindset in the Cong, who will rule at the "federal" HQ for a while to come. heck, if that change comes, Pak is kaput. GOI under centre-left will not do anything of the sort you want. The other alternative is yet to build up its vision. Pak does not need any parliament to be scared of. GOI has self-restricted itself.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Jun 2010 02:23

3,000 BSF men airlifted for Amarnath yatra
( all because ROPERS in Majority there)

Almost 3,000 Border Security Force personnel have been airlifted to Kashmir [ Images ] from New Delhi [ Images ] to guard devotees embarking on the Amarnath yatra [ Images ], that commences from July 1, and protecting the route. Official sources said the para-military men have been sent by special planes for maintaining law and order and for safe conduct of the yatra. The annual pilgrimage to the 3,888 meter high Amarnath cave in south Kashmir will begin from Baltal and Pahalgam and will conclude on August 24, the day of Sharvan Purnima.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jun/ ... -yatra.htm

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 30 Jun 2010 03:47

Political steps needed, Army chief tells TOI

something to be carefully seen in this article:

"The terror infrastructure in Pakistan remains intact," said Gen Singh. There are, after all, 34 'active' and eight 'holding' terror-training camps still operational across the border. Moreover, an estimated 500-600 terrorists are still active within J&K, with close to 50% of them being of 'foreign origin'.

"Then, we have inputs that efforts are being made to revive tanzeems (militant outfits) like Hizbul Mujahideen, which have suffered a lot in our operations," said Gen Singh.

ok, to literally estimate the number of militants with an accuracy of +-100 and number & types of camps itself requires a good network of MI right?? So at least this is a positive news, everything else u read in the article is depressing.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 30 Jun 2010 07:40

Sunni terrorists burn temple in Anantnag

Various Kashmiri Pandit organisations have strongly condemned the burning of Shivala temple at Janglat Mandi, Anantnag, by a frenzied mob today. The presidents of the three organizations B L Bhat, Vinod Pandita and Bharat Raina respectively demanded immediate protection to all Hindu shrines in the Valley as also to left over properties of Hindu minorities in the Valley. Mr Pandita said as the situation is deteriorating day be day in Kashmir all the Hindu minorities from villages be shifted to safer places in the towns and Srinagar city.

archan · Post by **archan** » 30 Jun 2010 09:00

Vashishtha wrote:Political steps needed, Army chief tells TOI

something to be carefully seen in this article:
"The terror infrastructure in Pakistan remains intact," said Gen Singh. There are, after all, 34 'active' and eight 'holding' terror-training camps still operational across the border. Moreover, an estimated 500-600 terrorists are still active within J&K, with close to 50% of them being of 'foreign origin'.

"Then, we have inputs that efforts are being made to revive tanzeems (militant outfits) like Hizbul Mujahideen, which have suffered a lot in our operations," said Gen Singh.
ok, to literally estimate the number of militants with an accuracy of +-100 and number & types of camps itself requires a good network of MI right?? So at least this is a positive news, everything else u read in the article is depressing.

come on, if we didn't have intelligence, do you really think we would have been able to solve Punjab and calm down Kashmir to the levels we have now? there have been some lessons learned the hard way, there must be some connections made the hard way, that is how one protects one's state in this world..

dada · Post by **dada** » 30 Jun 2010 11:40

I went to kashmir as a tourist last month & had a first hand experience of the environment in srinagar & nearby places. If u see the whole kashmir valley as a spectrum , you can sense the changing attitude of the kashmiris from the tangmarg-gulmarg-sopore (near the pak border) to the heights in pahalgam(away from the pak border). It improves (from an indian point of view) as we move east wards. We talked with kashmiris & we could sense that the younger generations are more willing to move on with their life by focussing on economics than religion. The parent generation is however a "permanently lost" generation . They are unwilling to forget & move on. Both generations will have to be managed in different ways.

But the most important thing is the completion of the qazigund section of the ongoing railway project that formally connects srinagar to the rest of india. The Muslim community in srinagar has closed its mind to all positive possibilities with respect to india. We need to crack it open , by any means. Vaishnodevi attracts 8 million hindus every year , But how many make it to the Valley ? < 0.5 million. We need to preasure the JK govt for the complete return of houses/property lost by kashmiri pandits & help them exploit this tourist industry(mostly hindus) by implementing schemes for building hotels/restaurants/rest houses.

The only relationship that is possible with kashmiris at present is a "hardcore economic relationship". Sell us tourism services & we pay you for your services ! Something is always better than Nothing.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 01 Jul 2010 01:45

The only relationship that is possible with kashmiris at present is a "hardcore economic relationship". Sell us tourism services & we pay you for your services ! Something is always better than Nothing.

I suppose that was the way it was before 1990

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 01 Jul 2010 03:09

Burning temples is a good tactic! Its win win for Islamists.
Hindus will never make it a "Babri" type issue. Media will clamp down on the issue and present it as a triviality. Moreover, "pundits" will wisely declare that the whole tactic is to inflame communal passions and any reaction shown in opposition to such burnings will trigger "communal violence" and will play into the hands of "communalists".

Unlike in the Babri case, when "Hindus" took up the cudgels against "Hindu communalists", there are no signs, and will be no signs of any intensely patriotic IM out on the streets protesting this temple burning by fellow Islamists.

Moreover, the responsibility of "temple burning" cannot and should never be allowed to somehow be associated even in the remotest possible way to any aspect of IM society. Even though no violent protests have taken place of the order of "anti-Tasleema" shenanigans, to protest Anantnag shrine burning, this silence should never be allowed to be interpreted as tacit support for such acts. Therefore all such acts should be firmly placed at the hands of "foreign elements".

Jihadis on the other hand score highly! It boosts morale in other Jihadis, and carries the message that all this J&K movement is after all a full fledged and long drawn out Ghazwa against Hindus. All the classic features of a genuine Islamic ghazwa is being maintained so that the faithful should be able to relate to that. The first steps were taken by typical Jihadi ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Punidts, then pretend and deceive continuously to be sometimes soft and sometimes rigid to this or that faction of non-Muslims, exploit channels of communication and influence within the non-Muslim to again pretend about the basically peaceful nature of the ideology and intent, but continuously and relentlessly go on wiping out all signs of Hindu or buddhist presence and cultural heritage in the valley and make it devoid of all pre-Islamic signs.

One day, a new generation of Prof. Ms Romila Thapars can look at this clean slate and derisively mock at the hyperactive imagination of "Hindu" revivalists who claim there was so-and-so shrine at Anantnag "burned" down by Muslims.

Meanwhile, the wise Pundits of "peace", economic development onlee, and no-reaction to Jihadi vandalism can agitate for greater economic development of "Kashmir" as the only solution to the "unrest". It almost feels like we should look at it as childrens' bonfire party that playfully burns down the garden house - to be rewarded with more chocolates.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jul 2010 03:47

Dada,
Kashmiri Sunni terroists has escaped economic harship in last few decades. Summer Tourism has now moved to Himachal and other part of India. Let old genertion die with the awareness that there is no future for the younger generation because of the Islamist deeds of the parental generation. These parasites should not enjoy any economic benefits without hard work .

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 01 Jul 2010 06:31

Omar Abdullah defends CRPF

Omar Abdullah said that the security forces could not be expected constantly to show restraint when they were so often pelted with stones.

India sees LeT hand in Kashmir violence

Addressing the media just after a meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on the Kashmir situation, home minister P Chidambaram said, "Anti-national elements are clearly linked to the LeT. We know that the Lashkar has been active in Sopore." He pointed to an encounter on June 25 where two Lashkar men were killed.

Sources in the home ministry said that such incidents were being instigated by separatists in the Valley, with LeT now more upfront. The reference to Lashkar also suggests a local network of sympathizers where the Hurriyat has little role to play. "The ploy is to demoralize the security forces at a time when they have put pressure on terrorists through their operations," said home ministry sources.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 01 Jul 2010 07:08

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Taser-Grena ... -5011.html

This and paint balls is what CRPF needs in Kashmir..

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Jul 2010 20:22

Although I shed no tears for the scum that dies in various protests in Kashmir, equipping security forces with non-lethal weapons will be a good idea. At least it'll keep the likes of Gila-nahi, Burka Butt, Arundhoti from cashing in on the deaths.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 01 Jul 2010 21:59

Wonder what the geopolitical factors are that triggered this recent outburst in J&K... Does it have anything to do with withdrawal from Afganistan

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Jul 2010 22:01

sudeepj wrote:http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Taser-Grena ... -5011.html

This and paint balls is what CRPF needs in Kashmir..

they need the bhut jholokia grenades.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Jul 2010 23:52

Duplicate post

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Jul 2010 23:53

Jarita wrote:Wonder what the geopolitical factors are that triggered this recent outburst in J&K... Does it have anything to do with withdrawal from Afganistan

Naah..nothing as grand as that. Most likely reason for this outburst is favourable weather. It was too cold for any outdoor procession or demonstration till now. Other events like Amarnath yatra, jobs for non-muslims in Kashmir add fuel to the fire.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 02 Jul 2010 18:48

Jarita wrote:Wonder what the geopolitical factors are that triggered this recent outburst in J&K... Does it have anything to do with withdrawal from Afganistan

No .. I think it is our Paki friends trying to send a message to GoI before the start of Foreign Minsiters' talks ...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 02 Jul 2010 19:50

I haven't read or heard about anything related to distribution of money to the Islamist protesters racket after that one initial expose. All this drama can't go on without loads of money being pumped in somehow.

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 02 Jul 2010 20:27

Omar Abdullah talks tough! Going by his record and history, Omar is displaying considerable hosility towards stone-pelting brigade and free-riders in the Valley. May be someone is pulling right strings or is it Mehabooba orchestrating the show?

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jul/ ... s-omar.htm

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 02 Jul 2010 20:37

AnimeshP wrote:
Jarita wrote:Wonder what the geopolitical factors are that triggered this recent outburst in J&K... Does it have anything to do with withdrawal from Afganistan
No .. I think it is our Paki friends trying to send a message to GoI before the start of Foreign Minsiters' talks ...

Absolutely. There is a method in their madness. Boy does TSP want Kashmir or parts thereof so badly. Like a love-striken lover whose only obsession in life is to seek revenge and/or do whatever it takes to redeem a lost cause.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 02 Jul 2010 20:44

Like a love-striken lover

More like a thirsty man. Perhaps both.
Ishk aur pyaas chhupaaye nahin chhuptey.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 02 Jul 2010 21:05

The Valley is important to secure northern Pak and occupied Northern territories as perceived by the gov in Islamabad. Many interests coincide.
(1) Securing the valley puts greater distance from KKH for Indians
(2) securing the Chinese claims on territories transferred illegally by the POGWI
(3) puts greater distance and a block towards India's reaching out to the CAR
(4) Surrounding and isolating the Ladkh-Leh region so that the surviving Buddhists can be wiped off benefiting both Tibet worried China and Jihadis
(5) The Valley once fully captured will become a strong bastion of Islamism even if it is cornered in the plains. The Hindu kingdoms of Kashmir proved a thorn in Muslim side historically because of the same territorial advantages now used by the Afghans. This can be used to launch the next phase of Jihadi wet dream of capturing the northern Indian plains.

So that even if the Pakjabi plains are lost the Paki elite can have a safe haven supplied by KKH from where they can continue to plan for reconquista. Assuming that not everyone packs his suitcase for asylum in US or UK. [Moreover the USA or UK will pressurize a portion to activate and be present in the new "little Pak" in the Valley for a handle in the region.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Jul 2010 23:18

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 120875.cms

Omar asked Amarnath Sangarsh Samiti in Jammu to immediately put an end "to spreading the lies" about the annual pilgrimgae being disturbed. "What is surprising is that even the media has been carrying their lies about a temple attack which never took place," he said.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 02 Jul 2010 23:48

brihaspati wrote:Burning temples is a good tactic! Its win win for Islamists.
Hindus will never make it a "Babri" type issue. Media will clamp down on the issue and present it as a triviality. Moreover, "pundits" will wisely declare that the whole tactic is to inflame communal passions and any reaction shown in opposition to such burnings will trigger "communal violence" and will play into the hands of "communalists".

Unlike in the Babri case, when "Hindus" took up the cudgels against "Hindu communalists", there are no signs, and will be no signs of any intensely patriotic IM out on the streets protesting this temple burning by fellow Islamists.

Bji with respect...

1. This serves us Hindus right as we have ourselves brought this upon us.
2. There never will be a uniform response of any kind as there is no uniformity of opinion amongst Hindus.
3. Hindus do not rise up in sufficient numbers because of the main handicap of division amongst us. There is no one kind of division but many.
4. The fundamental and root cause reason for this division is our extreme agreement to various opposing views.
5. The basis for this tolerance has come from several generations and is termed as polytheism.

In short polytheism as practiced by Hindus is the root cause of various divisions amongst them be it the language, attire, sub culture etc.