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Comparing Turkey with Pakistan Let us count the ways..
The 1st similarity between Pakistan and Turkey is the both countries’ flags.Both of the flags have large crescent moon on them representing Islam.
The 2nd similarity between the both countries is the geography.
The 3rd similarity between Pakistan and Turkey has been the democracy and its sporadic interruption by military.
The 4th similarity between the both countries has been the economic problems that both countries have faced and especially inflation.
The 5th similarity and for me which begs the most attention is the global standing of the both countries. Both countries have been vocal about international issues such as the Palestinian problem.
Not to overlook how tall and fair skinned we both are. Hence, we pakis are Turkish. QED.
NB: The article actually criticizes the forlorn paki hope of their would-be Turkishness. Sure, when pigs fly.
Err, another similarity has been overlooked.
Turkeys and Pigs don't fly
Perhaps Ajit-TR would be better placed to tell us how the Turks would feel about being compared to the Terrorist Sh1thole nation of 180 million delirious, blood thirsty,pissful lunatics.
shravan wrote:
Peshawar: Security forces on Thursday put up posters of wanted militants in the restive Swat district in northwest Pakistan and called on people to inform authorities about their presence in the area.
The posters were put up at Green Chowk, Hajiabad and other prominent places in Mingora, the main town in Swat district.
The posters carried photos of absconding Taliban commander Muslim Khan and other militants like Zafar Ali, Fazle Wahab alias Faraz, Nek Zada alias Kaka, Muhammad Rahman, Abdur Razaq, Muhammad Alam alias Sher Gul, Gul Zamin alias Ali and Muhammad Shoaib.
The names listed sound so much like the Pakbarian cricket team. Under no circumstances should the Pakbarian Chirkoot Board (PCB) be allowed to fill its coffers with Indian money.
One does not sympathize with WKKs, but still, a certain decorum is desirable.
No strategic advantage accrues by dancing around dead bodies. On the contrary, that will make it easier for SDREs to get blamed for the condemnable outrages that Paks perpetrate on each other. Also, if the goal is to alienate Paks from Pakistaniyat, some tact will be necessary.
Hear, hear. There is indeed no point in displaying a moronic satisfaction after every attack in packeeland. Such comments do not add anything to our knowledge of packeeland and in fact our show of satisfaction over these attacks may persuade the packees to stop the purification process.
It makes my day every time packee's get a taste of their own medicine, but there is no point in posting comments to that effect.
Gerard wrote:It is odd that ajit_tr would think that this thread somehow needs 'positive' news about Pakistan. I would think the title of this thread is self-explanatory.
Someone tell himthat a separate thread exists for bositive news about Pakistan. WE recognised the absence of positive news long ago and made a separate thread for that. Postive news must go on the correct thread
No doubt pakistan has problems but every country in world has its own problems.
Yes and this thread is to talk about the problem that Pakistan is. Brother - please don't push this. None of us are new to Pakistan - and none are new to what you are doing. Don't push your luck. If you wish to retain the ability to post in here you have to ensure that you are not pissing everyone off by making excuses for a nation of sponsors of people who kill Indians in the name of Allah.
The crescent shape moon appears in the flags of practically every Islamic country - a testimony to their inability to think beyond religion and see anything through neutral, humanistic eyes and not jaundiced religious eyes. Military controlling politics, economic morass etc., are also standard features of Islamic regimes that dont have oil.
These sort of articles are worth posting only in BENIS thread...
Re ajith_tr, this guy is either a 400% Paki or worse, a WKK gone mutant. But IMHO let him post a few 'positive' articles now and then to add some masala to this thread, no harm...gives us a good laugh and opportunity to post some 'real news'
Toilet article seems to think Pakistan has now united against terror - fails to point out that had the attack been on Ahmedi's Shia's or Hindus or anyone else, it would have been business as usual. This one cut where it hurts...that's the only reason these animals are making anti-terror noise.
Mulla-barians protest lawhore attack - how many of these bearded barbarians protested against the attacks on Ahmedis, if asking them to protest Mumbai attack is too much to expect? One animal even issued a statement that the Ahmedi attack was a conspiracy to get anti-Ahmedi laws repealed!
Last edited by Suppiah on 04 Jul 2010 08:04, edited 1 time in total.
The article does have a point - from the Khilafat to the secular state Pak elite have always looked up to the Turks as the right group of people to copy.
OTOH I doubt the Turks have any love for Pakis because the Turkish elite has always looked up to the Europeans as the right people to copy.
On deaf and dumb, I can't but help noticing the prayers for the dead being recited. There was not even a fraction of this remorse when twice this number of Ahmediyas were killed not 10 Kms from Data Darbar. Some fool came up and justified those murders as 'wajib-ul-qital', this from the religious speechs on the religious TV channels in pakistan and from the fiery speeches in the mosques.
Today, some wahabi fool was justifying the murder in the sufi shrine as justified saying that they were not muslims because they were worshiping graves!
The person who justified those purifications is no fool. The Ahmediya's and those praying at shrines are in transgression of Islam and therefore deserving of their punishment (as prescribed by Islam). In fact, this "fool" shows both integrity as a practising Muslim and logic. I praise him for that, I say this without any sarcasm.
Carl_T wrote:The article does have a point - from the Khilafat to the secular state Pak elite have always looked up to the Turks as the right group of people to copy.
OTOH I doubt the Turks have any love for Pakis because the Turkish elite has always looked up to the Europeans as the right people to copy.
Some Pakis have looked up to Turks, including Mushy-baby. But the religious ones have only felt scorn toward a society living out the legacy of Ataturk. Perhaps the new direction taken by Erdogan will convert all Pakistanis into admirers.
Pakistan goes back on its latest commitment
There was a commitment by Pakistan that before SM Krishna's visit to Islamabad on July 15, a 'credible movement' will be seen in the 26/11 case. Only 10 days remain and yet we have not only not seen any movement, but also we are now seeing Pakistan going back to singing same old tune.
He [Chidambaram] had hinted that India would expect forward movement from Pakistan on the issue before the July 15 meeting of the foreign ministers.
However, a diplomat said: “Islamabad is committed to proceeding with the Mumbai trial{True. that commitment can be seen here}, but to expect everything to be pegged on the Mumbai issue is unfair and against the spirit to normalise bilateral ties.” He urged India to look at the trust-building process from a larger angle rather than just through the Mumbai prism.
If they keep on praising araps and turks ,then turks will easily take away the caliphate position . All they have to do is to take a tough stand against Israel just once and then even the hardcore maulanas of pakistan will consider turks as leader of ummah
Pakis lose everywhere because they neglect their roots.
Back in my university days [before the 1990s] I realised that people were in total denial about Pakistan’s role in waging the Afghan jihad. When Pakistan started supporting jihad in Kashmir in 1988-89, the same smokescreen of secrecy covered Pakistan’s role.
So these events inspired the book?
I originally planned a book on madressah education but, during the Kargil war, I decided to write on jihad in Kashmir. Madressahs do not give militant training. They do, however, create the mindset that is needed for it. I realised that the Kashmir conflict was at the root of Pakistan military’s use of jihad as an instrument of defence policy.
How do you go about contacting militants and getting them comfortable enough to divulge the kind of details you mention in the book?
Most people think that it is very difficult to contact and speak to jihadis. This is not true. In the pre-9/11 period, they advertised their offices and camps, and openly invited people to get jihadi training and donate money for jihad. They also distributed flyers and published a large number of newspapers and magazines to advertise their jihad.
They feel they are fulfilling their religious duty by waging jihad and are not ashamed of it. After 9/11 it became more difficult to contact them [but] the sources I cultivated before 9/11 remained in touch. Many disappeared but those who remained on the surface helped me cultivate new ones. It was a risk I had to run as a journalist.
What traits would you say are common to the hundreds of militants you have interviewed?
They are all products of repressive and obscurantist social systems and come from unhappy personal backgrounds.
They are the products of societies where democracy failed. They are all committed to jihad, which empowers them.
They are ready to give their lives or take others’ lives for the sake of their cause.
However, there are some glaring differences which distinguish one group from the other. For the Kashmiris from the Valley, their jihad is for liberating their land from India. Even the most fundamentalist of them, the Hizbul Mujahideen, do not practice global jihad although they believe in it. There is hardly any jihadi from the Valley who is part of the global jihad.
The same is true for the Afghans, including the Taliban. Although the Taliban gave sanctuary to Al Qaeda, they themselves have not gone out to fight elsewhere. However, the jihadis from Pakistan including what is known as Azad Kashmir are always ready to take part in global jihad. If they do not, it is because their leaders have them on the leash for tactical reasons. If they are ordered by their leaders, they would fan out in all directions.
At any one time how many militants are there in Kashmir?
We can only make an intelligent guess. There used to be 3,000 to 4,000 militants in Kashmir in the 1990s.
However, the level of militancy has been coming down since 9/11.
Because of western pressure?
First, western pressure on Pakistan to rein in militants. Second, India has made it more difficult for militants to cross the border by erecting a fence at the Line of Control (LoC). It is very costly to use other routes to reach Kashmir from Pakistan [but] the trend may be changing. Lashkar-i-Taiba sent hundreds of militants across the LoC in 2009.
More are expected this year.
How popular are the major Islamist militant outfits among ordinary Kashmiris?
Militant groups were fairly popular among the Muslims of Kashmir [but] their popularity has come down. Local Kashmiri boys are not as attracted to militancy anymore although they remain alienated from the Indian state.
Militants will have to depend on Pakistani recruits. Lashkar-i-Taiba has the capacity to push in a human wave and destabilise the entire region. But, that depends largely on Pakistan-India relations.
Is it incorrect to say that all the militancy in Indian-controlled Kashmir stems from Pakistan? If not, what are the differences between the Pakistan-supported militant groups and the others?
The Pakistan military has supported almost all the militant groups active or ready to fight in Kashmir, although in a controlled way. In that sense, all the militancy stems from Pakistan. However, in the early years, most of the militant groups fighting in Kashmir were indigenous. If the Pakistan military had not supported them, they would have fought against the Indian union anyway.
Is it still taboo to talk about Pakistan’s support for Kashmiri militants?
I think it is the biggest taboo in Pakistan although some do understand the danger. Our media keeps propagating that India is behind what is happening in Pakistan and even Hindus are carrying out subversion in Pakistan. Few dare to note that all the known militants are Pakistanis.
One important difference that the article misses out that unlike Pakistani military, Turkish military is secular. OTOH Paki military has actively ecouraged Islamists to gain more power for itself. Turkish Islamists are not hand in glove with army as is the case with Pakistan.
Multatuli wrote:
The person who justified those purifications is no fool. The Ahmediya's and those praying at shrines are in transgression of Islam and therefore deserving of their punishment (as prescribed by Islam). In fact, this "fool" shows both integrity as a practising Muslim and logic. I praise him for that, I say this without any sarcasm.
Absolutely. All the nice ones that we encounter in daily life, there are thousands and thousands of them of course, perhaps even the majority, are the ones that either don't read the scriptures, don't understand them or don't choose to follow them in entirely. They cherry pick - again something prohibited by ROP.
The ones that do are the ones like this 'fool' who has read, understood and found the true path...
Last edited by SSridhar on 04 Jul 2010 11:46, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Fixed Quote Tag
jamwal wrote:One important difference that the article misses out that unlike Pakistani military, Turkish military is secular. OTOH Paki military has actively ecouraged Islamists to gain more power for itself. Turkish Islamists are not hand in glove with army as is the case with Pakistan.
Oh they are fixing that...dont worry. Erdogan is planning to recruit 500,000 full time army members, guess where from? If TSP wants to be a Turkey, Erdogan is happy to travel more than half way to meet them...
Talking to media persons here on Saturday after offering condolences to the family of Salim Akhter, who embraced martyrdom in Data Darbar attacks, Shahbaz Sharif condemned the statement of the interior minister for using the term of “Punjabi terrorists” for those involved in terrorism activities in Lahore.
“I and the nation denounce Rehman Malik’s statement against the people of the Punjab.” He said Rehman Malik wanted to create a gulf and prejudices among the people of the four provinces.
[snip]
Online adds: Meanwhile, PML-N central leader Ahsan Iqbal while talking to a private TV channel categorically rejected the presence of any training centre for terrorists in the Punjab. He said terrorists had occupied no territory of the province.
Ahsan Iqbal, while condemning the statement of the information minister of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, said terrorists had no religion or nationality and to associate terrorism with the provinces was tantamount to creating a division among the provinces.
He also denounced the terms of Pakhtun Taliban, Punjabi Taliban and Balochi Taliban, adding the menace of terrorism can only be eliminated by forging unity.
Information Minister of the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Mian Iftikhar, while talking to media persons, had said that training centres for terrorists existed in the Punjab.
He also denounced the terms of Pakhtun Taliban, Punjabi Taliban and Balochi Taliban, adding the menace of terrorism can only be eliminated by forging unity.
The menace of terrorism can only be eliminated by not living in a denial mode first of all. Everything else would follow that. Unfortunately, having invested in terrorism for a very long time, it is difficult to live without it for Islamists.
Aditya,
One thing india has to realize that it can't simply wish away.Even if pakistan disintegrate or merge with india,Indians have to live with 170 + million pakistanis in any circumstance.
Birater ajit, this is why there has to be a mass culling of the worst elements in packeeland first, before there can be reintegration with India.
It must be a joy to be living in Karachi these days. Come to think of it, it was always a case of living on the edge in that city. During the 80s and the 90s was the time when the MQM, the Shias and the Sunnis were fighting it out for supremacy.
These days, the talibs fleeing the fighting in Khyber-Pakhtoonwa, along with the Al-Qaida remnants have made the city their home. There is a nice litte area in the western part of Karachi that is no man's land and is controlled by the talibs. Besids the Baloch are also planning to 'liberate' the city and integrate it with balochistan, since historically karachi was part of balochistan, by virtue of it lying west of the Indus. The Indus was the natural boundary which divided the great land of Balochistan from the rest of British India/Pakistan.
Jawab Deyh interview with ex DG ISI Jawd Nasir. Very very interesting
These are two parts of the interview that is I think 6m - 2yrs old. Any chance of seeing the whole thing? There is one video that is 39 mins long, but you tube has deleted that video. Link
Gagan wrote:It must be a joy to be living in Karachi these days. .
Re target killings,
There has got to be some logic in this, even if it is madrasah logic. I mean, it is not as if they have a draw of lots each morning to decide who to cull...any mullah with expertise in animal pisskology cares to comment?
Multatuli wrote: this is why there has to be a mass culling of the worst elements in packeeland first, before there can be reintegration with India.
...the ones that remain un-culled can go to KSA, because they are tall fair Arabs, and now some of them can go to turkey since they are similar...we just integrate the land...and its oppressed minorities...not the barbarians
MINGORA: The Taliban will soon launch their own ‘media regulatory authority’ to monitor TV channels, radio stations and newspapers to “stop propaganda” against Islam, a Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman said on Saturday. “We are working on a Taliban media regulatory authority, which should be operational in the next few days. It’s main objective is to monitor the media closely, so that no false statement regarding Islam and its ideologies is made, nor any disputed matter is discussed in the media,” Muhammad Omar, a self-proclaimed TTP spokesman said in a statement emailed to media offices. He said, “If anyone tries to carry out such practices, he or she will be fined first. If he or she does not refrain from such practices, then the person will be executed under a suo motu action.” More details would be given soon, Omar added. iqbal khattak
So...I just survived a suicide bombing in Lahore, Pakistan.
I am visiting my folks in the homeland and despite the law and order situation, I decided to spend some time in Pakistan this summer.
...
This is not the country where I was raised as a child, it has twisted into a monstrosity with no end in sight. I wish I could make my entire family emigrate somewhere, anywhere but my folks refuse to leave. No crowded place is safe anymore in this country.
Here again, it's made clear that the US did their utmost to suppress any hint of packee involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Is it because the US is powerless against packeeland or would furter investigation of the packee links to 9/11 unearth American complicity in 9/11 ?
